Create Content Your ICP Needs, with Nicole Bump

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:17.280 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Today 2 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:22.480 on B tob growth I am joined by Nicole bump. She is the fractional 3 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:27.839 content director of bump. In bound, Nicole, welcome into be tob growth. 4 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:32.039 Thanks so much for having me, BEN J so, Nicole, how 5 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:37.759 long have you been working in content marketing? I know it fractional content director. 6 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:41.280 So just give us some context there to the the work you do and 7 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:47.079 your work in content marketing. Sure, I've officially had a content title since, 8 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:50.399 I guess, about two thousand and fourteen, so about eight years, 9 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:54.560 but I have always been in some sort of mark common writing role my whole 10 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.479 career. So I tend to say that I've been in content marketing before it 11 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:03.719 was really called content marketing. MMM, and by fractional content director, I 12 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.840 kind of created that term because I saw a lot of CMOS starting fractional offerings. 13 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:11.879 Yep, so I thought it probably made sense to people that it's a 14 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:15.480 little bit of strategy, it's a little bit of execution, it's kind of 15 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.040 whatever you need to have someone come in and, from a fractional or part 16 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:23.000 time sort of consultative perspective, take a look at what you're doing in your 17 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.120 content and help out getting you to the next step of the game. It's 18 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.000 actually why I think your voice is going to be so valuable for our listener, 19 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.239 is because it can be a lot easier to spot trends when you're working 20 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:40.799 with different clients, different marketing situations, right, whereas for and I'll just 21 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:42.599 say like I'm guilty of this, I'm my head is down in the project 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:48.599 I'm currently in in my company, and so I'm excited to tap into what 23 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:53.159 you're learning in all the different situations and scenarios you've been put in, and 24 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:59.079 that's maybe where we should begin, is when it comes to content creation with 25 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:04.560 specifically with your ideal customer in mind. You've put out some great content that 26 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.639 I wanted to chat about here. Let me pose this question at you first, 27 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:13.039 Nicole. What do you see many content marketers kind of, time and 28 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:17.319 time again, get wrong when it comes to content creation and their strategy? 29 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:24.280 I'll say that by far a lot of marketers or creating content for content sake 30 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:31.360 without necessarily understanding their audience appropriately. So so a lot of people will understand 31 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:37.240 their audience in terms of say, titles or rolls or industries or firmographics, 32 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:39.599 but to create good content you really need to know more than that. Right, 33 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:45.039 need to go a little bit deeper and sort of secondly, somewhat as 34 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:50.080 a result of this first problem, I see people jumping around a lot from 35 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:53.960 project or project or the next big thing, or riding the trends, if 36 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:59.159 you will, rather than committing to those foundational elements of good marketing. So 37 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.800 it really is my opinion and that a lot of be tob marketers could greatly, 38 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:07.240 you know, or make big gains by just simplifying their efforts rather than 39 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:13.960 going after that next shiny object. If there was ever a time we needed 40 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.479 this, like stop and consider why we're doing something, I do think it's 41 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:21.680 right now because, like you said, I love that you see people chase 42 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:24.199 trends. I love how you said that. Or there's just these options, 43 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:29.520 endless platforms that we can be on and kind of feel guilty for not being 44 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.280 on, or these avenues for marketing that you see someone else have success with 45 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:37.960 and you go Shiny Object Syndrome. I need that too. But why? 46 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.840 And so why do we need to do certain thing? What's the hoped desired 47 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.360 outcome? Right, it almost feels like you're going to give us permission to 48 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.240 be like beyond less channels or do less? Is that what's going to happen 49 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:54.199 today? Nichol? Well, I mean I'm certainly not the arbiter of how 50 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:59.080 many channels any brand should be on, but in general, yeah, I 51 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.840 think that most fetb marketers would do better if they focus their efforts on fewer 52 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:09.120 projects, fewer channels and really tried to nail master the ones that they are 53 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:13.319 on, really tried to own their space and own their conversation on the channels 54 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.720 that they're on. Yeah, I think before we can even get to what 55 00:04:15.839 --> 00:04:23.199 channels are appropriate or all of that conversation, you mentioned something around Icep and 56 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:28.319 understanding who were trying to talk to that. We have to start there right 57 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:30.680 when you're working to create a content strategy, you have to get the order 58 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:35.240 right. So when you're thinking of that, like, what would you say 59 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:43.279 is most important to have an order first? Yeah, at its simplest, 60 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:46.759 you really need to understand what you want to accomplish from your content, not 61 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.160 just putting content out there because you think you should or because somebody asks you 62 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:53.199 to. You want to know why you're doing it as a business, what 63 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:59.040 your goals are. But the next step is understanding why your audience should engage 64 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.199 with your content. You know, what are they looking for, what are 65 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:05.480 they trying to accomplish as it relates to what you offer, and it's the 66 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.839 intersection of these two things that's really going to be your sweet spot. So 67 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:12.399 you can kind of think of it like a ven diagram, right, like 68 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.199 what you want to talk about, what they want to hear about, and 69 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:19.639 then there's a hopefully a little bit of intersection there. Yep, it's interesting 70 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:25.279 how often we know what we want to talk about, and so that's what 71 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:28.800 starts the content strategy, that's what starts the blog, that's what starts the 72 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:30.639 webinars. That's how you see people get linked in, wrong, often right, 73 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.600 because this is what we want to talk about or even from a business 74 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.639 perspective, this is what we need to talk about, like we need to 75 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:43.120 host this Webinar to educate the market. So it's almost hard to like get 76 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.680 out of that once you've gotten into that cycle. Right. Do you see 77 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.120 that happen often with some of the clients you work with and when they're trying 78 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:55.920 to figure out their strategy? Yeah, so a lot of them, not 79 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:59.079 necessarily the marketers, but the other stakeholders, because there are a lot of 80 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.439 other schoolholders content marketing right. So, whether it's the sales team or the 81 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:08.279 product team or the executives, they don't always necessarily understand the end game of 82 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:14.040 content is often about education and solving challenges for your clients. I think it's 83 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.759 about pushing your agenda right, getting your product in front of people as much 84 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.720 as possible, and that's not necessarily the case. There's a place for that 85 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:27.120 in content marketing, but you really need to understand what your audience is trying 86 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.959 to accomplish and where they're struggling so that you can create the content it's going 87 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:33.800 to matter to them and then we'll start to build trust with them as they 88 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:39.759 interact with your brand. MMM. So when you think of what your customer 89 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:44.319 wants, it seems like, okay, if you had just a well defined 90 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:49.519 ICP, that could really begin to just inform your content. But a lot 91 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:54.560 of times what happens is we think we have a defined ICP, we think 92 00:06:54.600 --> 00:07:00.279 we understand our customer, but you'd say we don't really write beyond maybe title 93 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.279 in size of company. Yeah, and so for a lot of functions and 94 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.639 marketing that's okay. Right. So if you're, you know, targeting for 95 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.560 advertising or whatever it might be, those are the kinds of things that you 96 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.319 need to know. But when you are trying to create content, you have 97 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:18.079 to understand them deeper than how you're going to find them on facebook or whatever 98 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:23.639 it might be. So I specialize in Martech and attack, for example, 99 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:26.920 and a lot of companies will say like, well, I want to target 100 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:30.759 CMOS in the retail industry and you know, maybe we know that they're struggling 101 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.000 with ECOMM right, but if you just if that's all you know, then 102 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:39.040 you're going to sound like everybody else that's trying to reach them. So you 103 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:44.720 have to go a step, a step beyond those typical firmographics, industry title 104 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:49.000 etc. It's kind of what we have a lot of complaints about how noisy 105 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:57.439 the marketing space is is because we've all gone like two inches deep and it's 106 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.439 the easiest information to get. So it's the easiest information to give to a 107 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.079 team to say, Hey, go after this type of person. But once 108 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.120 you get beyond that it can get a bit complicated. So it's like we're 109 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.480 not even blaming anyone right now. We're just talking about the stressor that we 110 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.920 all feel right as content markers were like we wish we understood our ideal customer 111 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:22.000 perfectly. We all wish that, but actually getting there does take some extra 112 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.720 work. So I wonder for you, like what do we need to know 113 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:30.240 about our audience to create great content, like in Nicole's mind, if you're 114 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:35.120 just saying this is the ideal situation, what do you feel like we need 115 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:37.840 to know to create that that great content? That's a good question. So 116 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.960 obviously the more you know about your audience, the better and the more you're 117 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:45.720 going to be able to create great stuff and it's going to be highly relevant 118 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.120 and what not. But when you're just starting out or you know you've got 119 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:54.559 a blank page, I try to tell people there's a minimum of couple things. 120 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:56.159 You want to know who you're talking to, so that's probably the stuff 121 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.000 you already have. You know their roles or industries, that sort of thing. 122 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.799 But secondly, you really want a firm grasp on what these people are 123 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:09.600 trying to do and what they're trying to accomplish. So this is sometimes referred 124 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.000 to as their job to be done, if you're familiar with that language, 125 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:18.480 and these jobs should be related to what you offer, at least tangentially. 126 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:24.320 You're probably not going to create content that helps themselves totally unrelated needs to what 127 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.559 you do, even though this might exist. You want to understand, you 128 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.360 know, what they're trying to do, what they're trying to accomplish, and 129 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.399 then the next key piece is what is getting in their way of those things. 130 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.559 What are their pain points, again as it relates to how you can 131 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:43.600 help solve them? You you may help them solve related pain points, you 132 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.039 know, with your content, but you always want to be again trying to 133 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.360 find that intersection of what what their life is like and what you offer. 134 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.159 Okay, jump back to jobs to be done for someone that might be unfamiliar 135 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.519 with that language. Can you just give a hyper practical example real quick of 136 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:03.039 what that looks like? Sure. So this is based on the idea that 137 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:09.159 whenever somebody buys something, a product or a service, they're looking to get 138 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:13.480 something done, they're looking to accomplish something, and so that term job to 139 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.440 be done just refers to what they are trying to accomplish. So it might 140 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:22.559 be, I'm trying to think of an example from my own life here, 141 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.200 a being be marketer, they're just trying to plan their editorial calendar. You 142 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.559 know, that might be their job to be done, or maybe that's even 143 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.360 a step you know, maybe the actual job to be done is connect with 144 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.440 their audience or m but what they're trying to do is referred to us a 145 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:41.240 job to be done. Hey everyone, if you've been listening to be to 146 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.000 be growth for a while, you know that we are big proponents of putting 147 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:50.000 out original, organic content on Linkedin, but one thing that's always been a 148 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.960 struggle for a team like ours is easily tracking the reach of that linkedin content. 149 00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:00.080 That's why we're really excited about shield analytics. Since our team started using 150 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.039 shield, we've been able to easily track the reach and performance of our linkedin 151 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.279 content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and it 152 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:16.720 generates dashboards that are incredibly useful to determining things like what content has been performing 153 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:20.080 the best, what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and 154 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:24.519 our average views per post. Shield has been a game changer for our entire 155 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:30.919 team's productivity and performance on Linkedin. I highly suggest checking out this tool if 156 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.799 you're publishing content on Linkedin. For yourselves or for your company. You can 157 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:41.159 get a ten day free trial at shield APP DOT AI, or you can 158 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:45.480 get a twenty five percent discount with our Promo code be to be growth. 159 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:50.159 Again, that's shield APP DOT AI and the Promo Code is be the number 160 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:56.120 two be growth. All One word for a twenty five percent discount. All 161 00:11:56.200 --> 00:12:00.320 right, let's get back into the show. A being to be market there's 162 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:03.879 trying to plan their editorial calendar. You know, that might be their job 163 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:05.240 to be done, or maybe that's even a step. You know, maybe 164 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:09.559 the actual job to be done is connect with their audience or but what they're 165 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.960 trying to do is referred to as a job to be done. Yeah, 166 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:18.320 that one piece is often, I think, what's missing, because we can 167 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:24.039 go like who they are and we can go what's in their way? That 168 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.840 seems like the traditional I don't know, at least for me, I heard 169 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.919 that all the time. What's the problem in their way? But I never 170 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.000 a core missing piece was going, okay, what do they want to accomplish, 171 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.440 like what's the job that they need to get done? They want to 172 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.679 get done, because if you can speak to that, like the desire that 173 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:48.360 they have, that is fantastic marketing and the way that you create content shifts 174 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.600 not just from here's a bunch of problems that you have, but hey, 175 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:56.559 here's what we know you want to accomplish and here's how. We're essentially the 176 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.480 guide to help you get there. Yeah, so it's you know, what 177 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.120 are you trying to do and also where do you want to be? So 178 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.759 Donald Millers from story brand calls this aspirational identity. Like why do you want? 179 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:09.080 What do you want from all of this? So if it's the kinds 180 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.399 of things you can understand, what are you trying to accomplish? What are 181 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:16.559 you trying to do? They all help you get better at connecting with your 182 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.080 audience and creating the stuff that's going to stand out when you're creating content, 183 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.960 because you can talk to them more, more relevantly, more at their level. 184 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.600 aspirational just sounding like like everyone else? Yeah, yeah, aspirational identity. 185 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:33.600 Think you, Donald Miller. That is a good phrase and one that 186 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.799 we definitely should be using more. So. Okay, one of the things 187 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:43.399 that I saw you post on Linkedin that actually might have prompted my initial reach 188 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.480 out to you is that you gave some really helpful questions that we could be 189 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:52.519 asking that help us lock down what some of the needs are of our ICEP, 190 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:54.799 helping us really define this. What are some of the questions that we 191 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:03.159 can ask to help accomplish this? I think at the end of the day, 192 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:05.879 you can ask all the typical questions about you know, what are you 193 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.399 responsible for? You know what's getting in your way age you're trying to do 194 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.399 it. What is your boss Holes you accountable for? You know, that 195 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.919 sort of thing. But I've heard some really great prompts in the past like, 196 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.799 for example, Diane at lion words. She's a conversion copywriter. She 197 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.799 provided this advice saying that you should ask people, if you can only ask 198 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.559 them one question, ask them to take you back to the day when you 199 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:37.000 first got online, googled something and found our website, like what were you 200 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:41.919 facing that caused you to do that and end up on our property? Yeah, 201 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:45.960 because that really gives you an idea of like Ah, what is that? 202 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:50.159 What's that struggle that they're in right now? So if they can remember 203 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.799 that, that's great insight there. And one of the things that I found 204 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.200 really helpful, if not a little awkward while you're doing it, is asking 205 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.080 five wise so as you're trying your floor, you know these things with your 206 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.000 customers. When someone tells you what they're trying to do. Yes, then 207 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.480 why? Well, they'll say, oh, okay, well, it's part 208 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:13.000 of my job or my boss thinks it's important, or well, why? 209 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.639 You know, ask them again and you I've done this and it feels really 210 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.759 silly and I've had to provide some like I'm done. I'm trying. I 211 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.320 have a point. I promised you tell I was going to say. Do 212 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.639 you preface this with I'm going to ask this a lot of times, because 213 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.879 I could do that being so awkward at first? Yes, and I'm I 214 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.519 don't even know if I got to five because I was feeling a little silly. 215 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:35.799 But the point is that when you keep asking, it helps people sort 216 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.080 of dig into their real motivations for things, and that's when you start to 217 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.919 get at some of that emotional stuff, some of that aspirational stuff, and 218 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.639 so you can uncover some really interesting nuggets that you wouldn't get if you just 219 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:52.120 accepted their first iteration of your answer. HMM. I wonder if when you 220 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:58.559 ask the why five times, does it clarify some of like the content marketing 221 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:03.440 win like what that actually looks like for them as well a little bit. 222 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.440 I think it can, and sort of personally for them, not necessarily for 223 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:14.320 the company or yeah, but so one of the I've done this for myself. 224 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:15.840 Okay, so it's been a couple of years since I've actually done any 225 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.080 person interviews from my company, but I did talk to you a few clients 226 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.600 a couple years ago and one of the interesting things that I found was that 227 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:30.799 some of the clients were worried about making an impact pact on their company. 228 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.759 They're worried about proving their worth as a content marketer and they felt like maybe 229 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:38.720 other people in the company didn't really understand what they did all day. And 230 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:45.679 so that were really unique insight, right, like you can create content about 231 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.480 content performance all day long. There's lots out there, but if you can 232 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:53.000 create content that teaches someone how to prove your worth as a content marketer, 233 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.720 like that's a very different angles, right, and that was a unique insight 234 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:02.480 that came out of my own interviews and of course I haven't I haven't written 235 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.920 it yet. So that's sort of the what that wind can look like if 236 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:12.000 you start uncovering those sort of emotional what's really driving people, what's getting in 237 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.400 their way, and then you can use those to create. You can use 238 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.000 it to create an individual content piece, but in that case I think you 239 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:25.680 really could create a whole pillar around them. Hey, beb gross listeners, 240 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.640 we want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for 241 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:33.720 it. Just head over to be tob growth podcom and complete a short survey 242 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.359 about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. 243 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.680 Plus. The first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way 244 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.559 of saying thank you so much one more time. That's be tob growth podcom, 245 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:53.240 letter B number two, letter be growth podcom. One entry per person 246 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.759 must be an active listener of the show to enter and look forward to hearing 247 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:04.119 from you. What's really driving people, what's getting in their way, and 248 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.559 then you can use those to create. You can use it to create an 249 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.279 individual content piece, but in that case I think you really could create a 250 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.039 whole pillar around the yeah, that's where I think it gets interesting. is 251 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.680 you'll start to again what I commended you for at the beginning, is you 252 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.319 begin to spot trends. Right if you were doing enough of these interviews. 253 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.359 You would then be like, oh, this isn't just like a oneoff maybe 254 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:32.200 content piece, because this person has this issue. It's like this has been 255 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.759 brought up several times. We could take it from several different angles. Now 256 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:41.279 we have several different content pieces across several different platforms because you dug in at 257 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.279 a deeper level. Absolutely. Yeah, HMM. Okay. So let's say 258 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:51.079 someone needs to just go back and maybe better clarify, for content purposes, 259 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:55.480 their ICP. They have the title, they have the kind of the things 260 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.680 we were joking about earlier. Probably all know, like company size and title, 261 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.480 but they're going because of Nicole and Benji and this BB growth episode, 262 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.680 I want to clarify a bit more around my ICP for my content. Where 263 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.920 do you think they should start? Where do we begin with this? Nothing 264 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:17.200 beats a good chat with a customer or two, and I'm not sure why 265 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:19.759 there's such a barrier to this in so many places. I don't like the 266 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.880 phone, so I kind of get that, but you really should just talk 267 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.680 to a few customers every now and then. I should like, I said, 268 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.000 do it again myself soon. But if you can't get on the phone 269 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.920 with customers, for whatever reason. There are some other places that you can 270 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.839 get at the voice of the customer. So, for example, you can 271 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:42.759 look at online reviews sites like GTO. I actually one time went to GTWO 272 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:48.559 for a client project and looked up one of their competitors and just got off 273 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.079 the complaints about the competitor and then we write a cool blog post about like 274 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:57.359 how we overcome common challenges in the space and it was actually written right to 275 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.640 some customer complaints about the competitor. That's a little bit different than what I'm 276 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:06.559 talking to here, but my point being that there are customers online talking about 277 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.480 solutions and so you can hear specifically from their voice what they're struggling with, 278 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.160 what they like. From finding some of those reviews. You can also listen 279 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.440 in to sales and demo calls. Sometimes companies actually have those recorded so you 280 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.720 can just peruse at your leisure. HMM. One of these are perfect fixes, 281 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.359 but they're better than nothing. Like I've seen some criticism on linkedin lately 282 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:32.079 of sales calls aren't customer interviews and like no, they're not, but if 283 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:36.200 you can't get a customer interview it's better than nothing. Yeah, and then 284 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.559 finally, you also have a lot of people in your company that probably have 285 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:44.680 some great customer knowledge to so, especially anyone that interfaces with the customer, 286 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:49.480 whether that sales or product people or customer service, they're talking to your customers 287 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.359 and they probably have some good insights as well. So if you can start 288 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.079 to curate those from around the company, that can also be a really great 289 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.440 place to start. Yeah, if you have an account manager or someone that 290 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.400 has to has some sort of check in, I know I've worked for two 291 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:10.000 different companies that that they did like essentially in the onboarding process there was continual 292 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:11.519 check in, but then there was also like reviews, and that's a pretty 293 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:17.720 typical practice. That person is interacting and a lot of times those calls are 294 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.039 even recorded. So it's not a sales call, it's a check in call, 295 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:23.039 but you're asking some questions, you're learning some things about how they're interacting 296 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:27.200 with your product, but they're also you're also learning about hopefully they're some of 297 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.720 their stuff, they're going through their aspirations, their problems, and I think 298 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.039 that's great. I do think it would make for some really interesting content. 299 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:40.559 What you said first about going and looking at some negative reviews. That also 300 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:45.640 that might have sparked some some inspiration in some of our listeners. But okay, 301 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:51.319 yeah, whenever you can do creative things like that, it usually works 302 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.200 to your benefit. Like metadata. Has that post about, you know, 303 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.119 seven reasons you shouldn't buy METADATA, right. And Yeah, I mean it's 304 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.400 perfect because it helps them narrow down who's reaching out to them. So they're 305 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:07.160 actually, you know, helping get the right audience coming into their their content. 306 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.359 But but yeah, that that's the perfect example of you can do funny 307 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.759 things by going out and looking at the online reviews and seeing what people are 308 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.680 saying, positive and negative. All right, so, as we start to 309 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.440 lay in this plane, you have any content creation, let's say, tips 310 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.440 or tools that you use with your clients that you'd want to highlight here for 311 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.400 us as we continue to try to get better at this? Well, a 312 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.000 little bit of a shameless plug, I actually have a new course out called 313 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:40.079 the content strategy quickstart, and it actually walks people through documenting these foundational elements 314 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.279 that you need in a good content strategy. I mean, I've seen that 315 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:47.000 this is a challenge for so many companies. So finally worked with a few 316 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:51.599 few brilliant marketers over or fuel to make this happen. There are just there 317 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:53.720 weren't good resources for it right and I think that is one of the biggest 318 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:59.279 barriers to why people maybe don't have a great content strategy documented. Just don't 319 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.920 know step by step what they're supposed to do. So that is available. 320 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.319 You can find it on my website, a bump and boundcom. Can also 321 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.160 find it on gum road. Yep. I think that's great that you've cansolidated 322 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.960 this too, because we need more of those types of voices. One of 323 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.440 my favorite things is just following people on Linkedin, even a lot of times 324 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:19.559 they end up creating courses. I think of like a Justin Simon, but 325 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:26.079 like there's different people that are really thinking through content strategy and we need more 326 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:33.039 resources and tools Justin's course. Is Great that it's like the content repurposing roadmap. 327 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.440 I've Kis that and I've been using some of his tactics or promote my 328 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.240 own content. He's great. Yeah, when it comes to content creation, 329 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.200 I am a big fan of semurishes, content writing assistant. It's, you 330 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.160 know, seos not everything. I know not all content should be optimized for 331 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.200 search, but if you're trying to rank for something. This is an add 332 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:57.759 on for Google docs and it will actually score your content based on where you 333 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.559 know how well it thinks. It will do the search based on what's there, 334 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.079 and then it gives you actionable things to do to improve it, like 335 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:10.279 think about adding these keywords, think about adding or cutting length, simplify your 336 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:15.200 language and these specific spots. So that's a really useful tool if you're looking 337 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:22.279 to rank in search. And I also really love Advanced Marketing Institutes Headline Analyzer. 338 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:30.079 They have this some algorithm that scores your content headlines by emotional marketing value. 339 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.880 Oh Wow, and yeah, I find it really I gotta check this 340 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.240 out. Yeah, I find it really interesting. It's Ami's headline analyzer and 341 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.960 I use it all the time to help me create more powerful headlines. So 342 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.720 those are a few of the tools that I'd recommend. I like that. 343 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:52.200 Okay, so I think the best thing we can do leaving this conversation is 344 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.319 ask some core questions, specifically going back to what you were saying, not 345 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.880 beyond just who they are, but like what are our customers or what are 346 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.640 potential customers? What do they want? What's the jobs to be done? 347 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:10.000 What's in the way right we start there and then we can always be improving 348 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:14.440 on tools and and that sort of but I'm leaving with I need to talk 349 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.200 to customers. I need to go deeper than I typically would go, which 350 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.079 means maybe a little bit of extra work, but it's worth the time to 351 00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:26.279 put in. And I'm going to leave to remembering that you brought up Donald 352 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:30.279 Miller and aspirational identity, because I think that's just something we gotta we got 353 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.880 to walk away with. Anything else you want to add, Nicole, before 354 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:37.440 we close this one out? Yeah, I was thinking about you know, 355 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:40.960 what would be? That one thing I'd suggest to people, and I would 356 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.559 challenge be tob marketers to just stop for a second today and ask themselves what 357 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.920 is one thing that they can just stop doing? Like, what's one thing 358 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.839 you can take off your plate? You know this. All kinds of expectations 359 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:57.160 people have of us and lots going on, but not everything's equally important and 360 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:03.000 effective, right. So, if there's something you can cut and then reallocate 361 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:08.200 those resources to spending a little time documenting what you do know about your customers, 362 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.759 making sure you've got it all written down and like one place, and 363 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:17.200 then work on filling those gaps. You know, you probably know a lot 364 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.240 right within your company, and if you just were to document it all, 365 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:26.160 then you could start making your content a little more audience focused right away. 366 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:33.279 That's great to leave us with. I think we're so easily dictated by the 367 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.920 waves and man, this is something that someone else is doing some maybe we 368 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:37.839 need to do it, we need to be on that thing, we need 369 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:45.480 to try that and a lot of times experimentation is fantastic, but if it's 370 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.960 eating at all of our time and we don't have margin leftover, we're never 371 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:53.799 going to really thrive in a specific area. And so thanks for essentially coming 372 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.160 on be tob growth to give us permission to quit something. I think that 373 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:03.359 that's absolutely true. This okay, Nicole. For those that want to stay 374 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.839 connected, what's the easiest way? I know you mentioned your website, but 375 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.599 I know you're active on Linkedin as well. Just tell us different ways we 376 00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.240 can connect with you. Yeah, absolutely, Linkedin is probably the easiest way 377 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:17.240 to connect with me. There aren't too many Nicole bumps, so I should 378 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:21.119 be easy to find and if you did want to reach out via email, 379 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:26.839 it's just Nicole dot bump at gmailcom. Perfect. Well, I would say 380 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.240 for all of our listeners. If you've yet to connect with me as well, 381 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:33.480 you can do that over on Linkedin. Talking Marketing, business in life 382 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.880 over there, and would love to hear from you. If you have yet 383 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.960 to follow be to be growth on whatever podcast platform you listen to us on, 384 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.160 go ahead and do that so you never miss an episode. Thanks for 385 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.359 listening and Nicole, thanks so much for being here and being with us today. 386 00:27:47.039 --> 00:28:02.680 Yeah, thanks so much, fungie. We're always excited to have conversations 387 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:06.440 with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or 388 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.799 a chief marketing officer that you think we need to have on the show, 389 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:14.680 reach out. Email me, bene dot block at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I 390 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:15.039 look forward to hearing from you.