#CEO 9: CEO Rule Number 1 — When You Go In, You Must Go All In. w/ Dip Patel

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:08.470 It's like action sports. You know they're incredibly thrilling, but when you get 2 00:00:08.470 --> 00:00:11.189 hit it hurts and he's got it to pick up in and keep going. 3 00:00:13.070 --> 00:00:16.550 Welcome back to another episode of the CEO Series on the BB growth show. 4 00:00:17.190 --> 00:00:21.429 I'm your host, John Belzier, editor of the CEO Playbook and online publication 5 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:26.579 full of stories from real CEOS and practical sage advice for founders and CEOS of 6 00:00:26.660 --> 00:00:31.739 high growth companies. Today we'll be talking about entrepreneurship. Young professionals often asked 7 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:35.500 me when do I know I am ready to be an entrepreneur? Or, 8 00:00:35.539 --> 00:00:39.649 John, how did you decide to start your first company? or how did 9 00:00:39.689 --> 00:00:42.929 I leave a job, a great job at a big company, and take 10 00:00:43.049 --> 00:00:46.009 that risk? How do I do that? What I've learned in the past 11 00:00:46.009 --> 00:00:50.719 two decades starting and growing companies is this entrepreneurship is about looking at the world 12 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.679 and finding opportunities to create something new. Entrepreneurs or people who are thinkers and 13 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:00.119 doers, as Steve Job puts it, the doors are the major thinkers, 14 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:04.269 the people that really create the things that change the world. Those people are 15 00:01:04.310 --> 00:01:11.310 both thinkers and doers in the same person. Thinking is the why and doing 16 00:01:11.590 --> 00:01:15.950 is the how. On today's episode I'm joined by my close friend Dip Patel. 17 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:19.700 He is going to tell us about the why and the how of entrepreneurship. 18 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:25.859 Dips first foray into entrepreneurship was when he sold candy in the sixth grade 19 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:30.019 at school. It led to a suspension, but doesn't years later he joined 20 00:01:30.099 --> 00:01:34.170 Lockheed Martin and was working on multiple advanced radar and electronic warfare systems as a 21 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:38.810 program manager. He then landed in Business Development where he was leading efforts for 22 00:01:38.849 --> 00:01:45.569 advance undersea systems, and he finally kept his career on an advanced submarine think 23 00:01:45.609 --> 00:01:49.079 tank. Dip them went to MIT to learn the process of starting a business. 24 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:52.439 Did that in two thousand and twelve and the next year he co founded 25 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:57.640 ECOVENT and ran it through its successful product development and launch before selling the company 26 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.549 in two thousand and sixteen. ECOVENT is the only intelligent home zoning system that 27 00:02:01.709 --> 00:02:07.990 delivers complete room by room climate control through easy to install self configuring sensors and 28 00:02:08.030 --> 00:02:12.830 vents. It has been hailed as the holy grail of comfort by this old 29 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.699 house. Since selling ECO vent, dip has joined MIT as a lecturer and 30 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:21.699 entrepreneur in residence. To support other incredible entrepreneurs in their journey. In addition, 31 00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:24.819 he is the cteo of Saluna, a company that is aiming to revolutionize 32 00:02:24.819 --> 00:02:30.370 Green Energy Development and zero carbon cloud data centers. Dip and eye talk about 33 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:34.210 his journey from big corporations to becoming an entrepreneur, what it takes to go 34 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:38.129 from a founder to a CEO and what it's like being CEO. He shares 35 00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:40.770 what it takes to be an entrepreneur and the courses he teaches, an mit 36 00:02:42.169 --> 00:02:46.560 that helped young entrepreneurs understand what it's like to be in the shoes, in 37 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.439 a certain situation or a live environment. This is another one of those episodes 38 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:53.280 where you're going to need a pen and paper because there is so much learning 39 00:02:53.360 --> 00:03:00.189 here. Did Welcome to the show. Thanks, man's good to be here. 40 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:01.870 Man, good to talk to you. Awesome. So we have a 41 00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:06.270 lot to talk about. We're going to talk about your past as an entrepreneur. 42 00:03:06.669 --> 00:03:08.710 Course, we're currently working together, so this is exciting to talk to 43 00:03:08.789 --> 00:03:12.710 you about. You know what, at the core of each of us has 44 00:03:12.710 --> 00:03:16.379 our passion entrepreneurship. So talk about your past and love to talk about course 45 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:21.819 you're teaching and some of the interesting things that you teach your students about entrepreneurship 46 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:24.780 and getting to the essence of being an entrepreneur. But before we do that, 47 00:03:24.939 --> 00:03:29.210 I'd love to get our audience, who may not know you, to 48 00:03:29.370 --> 00:03:31.770 learn more about you. So take us through your journey from the beginning of 49 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:36.930 your professional career to when you first became an entrepreneur. Yeah, it's actually 50 00:03:36.969 --> 00:03:40.090 quite interesting because it's a little bit of a weird journey, you know, 51 00:03:40.370 --> 00:03:44.759 which I found is a common factor. A lot of folks don't have like, 52 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:46.639 you know, like a playbook that they followed to become a CEO. 53 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.039 And for me, I used to work at Lockheed Martin, a big defense 54 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.960 company, and I joined it because I was so interested in the defense of 55 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:58.830 this nation. Being an immigrant, I was just enamored with this amazing country 56 00:03:58.870 --> 00:04:01.909 and I wanted to help see word Kenyan, I rob and so Africa, 57 00:04:02.389 --> 00:04:05.669 and what's interesting is it used to be really safe there when I was a 58 00:04:05.789 --> 00:04:10.939 child child, but then it really started getting dangerous and we came here and 59 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:14.620 it was so safe and a lot of my family was in the armed forces 60 00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:17.939 or at some level or another in the government, and I wanted to lend 61 00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:21.779 my hand and when I was at Lockheed, I was an engineer to start 62 00:04:21.819 --> 00:04:27.089 with, but then very quickly it turned out that I wasn't really built to 63 00:04:27.370 --> 00:04:30.649 just stay in the lab all the time and I wanted more, and so 64 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:34.930 I started working my way more into the sales and business development organizations and turned 65 00:04:34.930 --> 00:04:38.449 out I had a knack for it and I liked it and from there, 66 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.399 you know, I kept going. I really focused a lot. My Lot 67 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:46.600 of my career was focused around the concept of using electrical energy to do things. 68 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.839 So that's radar missile defense, you know, blocking IEDs like counter IDs, 69 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:56.550 things like that. And you know, my my main function was initially 70 00:04:56.870 --> 00:05:00.589 supporting these programs and then later finding the new ones and building a team to 71 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:04.629 kind of attack these new problems. And very slowly turned out that I enjoyed 72 00:05:04.670 --> 00:05:09.379 that part a lot, building the team, like defining a new way to 73 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:12.620 solve a big problem, you know, trying to win new business, and 74 00:05:12.699 --> 00:05:15.819 I found that that was the most exciting for me. At the same time, 75 00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:18.660 I found that if I leave a huge company like Lockheed, the impact 76 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:23.089 isn't that big. You know, they'll be just fine right, and I 77 00:05:23.290 --> 00:05:25.930 realize that even though I was doing great work and I was so proud of 78 00:05:25.970 --> 00:05:30.250 myself that ultimately had a huge company like that. I'm just a small piece 79 00:05:30.529 --> 00:05:33.209 in a limited different right. Yeah, ever feeling like I was. Yeah, 80 00:05:33.529 --> 00:05:35.959 a good story for you about that. I left the large company too, 81 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:39.759 when I found in my first company and one of my mentors there. 82 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.199 I was telling her, Hey, I think I'm leaving and I'm going to 83 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:45.519 go do this thing and you know I'm unsure, and he did this exercise 84 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.040 which kind of supports your point. He said, see that glass of water 85 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.149 right there, because we're having to be like in the cafeteria, and this 86 00:05:51.230 --> 00:05:55.350 despace was big enough. I had his own cafeteria, you know. And 87 00:05:55.750 --> 00:05:58.829 he said, Butch your finger in the middle of the glass, and I 88 00:05:58.949 --> 00:06:01.149 said, okay, this guy always asks you to do like weird things anyway. 89 00:06:01.230 --> 00:06:03.660 So I put my finger in them and in the center of the glass 90 00:06:03.980 --> 00:06:06.579 and he says, you see that that dimple that your singer just made in 91 00:06:06.819 --> 00:06:10.819 the water, and I said yeah, he said, now put your finger 92 00:06:10.899 --> 00:06:13.819 out. I said okay, and I pulled it out. He says, 93 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:16.339 what happened? The dimple's gone. He says, yeah, that's you see. 94 00:06:18.129 --> 00:06:20.649 Oh Wow, he's as much as you think you know what I mean. 95 00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:24.970 There's a little turbulence, but then it's flat. Yeah, right, 96 00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:29.050 exactly. That's a really cool analogy. Yeah, exactly. And so while 97 00:06:29.050 --> 00:06:31.209 I was there, actually happened to meet some of the people that didn't have 98 00:06:31.410 --> 00:06:35.040 that type of career at Lockheed, meaning if they left there would be a 99 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.079 huge, massive amount of water that went with them, in the order of 100 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:43.120 billions. And as a result, yeah, his name is Jack, one 101 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.560 of the guys, his name is Jack, and he became a mentor of 102 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:50.029 mine and basically he invented a way to do business that was tied to massive 103 00:06:50.149 --> 00:06:56.350 contract and the government had basically told Lockheed where Jack Goes, this contract goes, 104 00:06:56.709 --> 00:07:00.750 and that allowed Jack to do things the way he wanted to do and 105 00:07:00.870 --> 00:07:02.420 I that's what I think aligned me to him, because he was kind of 106 00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:05.459 a pirate, you know, inside of the Navy, and for us it 107 00:07:05.740 --> 00:07:09.939 was yeah, and we aligned ourselves. We got really used to chatting because 108 00:07:09.939 --> 00:07:13.500 we both liked cooking. And what ended up happening was he he said you 109 00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:15.209 need to get out of here. He said you're not. He just like 110 00:07:15.329 --> 00:07:17.769 he didn't say it with the with a cup of water, but he's like 111 00:07:18.009 --> 00:07:21.009 my career is not replicable. You know. I'm he's like it's it was 112 00:07:21.050 --> 00:07:27.129 a it was a group of very lucky and situations that it worked out towards 113 00:07:27.170 --> 00:07:30.079 this type of career. And he's like, if you want to end up 114 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:32.199 the same way as me, you can't follow me, you can't copy what 115 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.759 I've done, you have to do it yourself. And he said you should 116 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:40.079 leave and you always have a job at Lockheed, but go, go see 117 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:42.600 what you can do for yourself. And I said, okay, I'm going 118 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:45.949 to apply to my tea and I remember him laughing and he said why are 119 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:47.790 you going to go to school? He's like, you can't learn to be 120 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:50.709 an entrepreneur. He's like what are they going to teach you? Right, 121 00:07:51.509 --> 00:07:55.589 I said, I don't know, but it's a might so I'm gonna figure 122 00:07:55.629 --> 00:07:58.430 it out. And that was the that was the John. You know, 123 00:07:58.509 --> 00:08:03.019 I came to Sloane purely to help me get over the the initial fear of 124 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:05.899 starting a company and to give me some level of safety net. And the 125 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:09.139 rest of his history. You know, I came to school and since I 126 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:15.050 got there, my entire focus was learning the art of starting companies. What 127 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.209 do I need to know, and luckily I learned a lot of that while 128 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.569 I was there and through starting my first company called e covent. Got It. 129 00:08:22.769 --> 00:08:24.050 So tell US abody covent. So how'd you come up with the idea 130 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:28.959 and did you start it yourself? Did you have a team of folks that 131 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.159 you came together to start it with? And Yeah, you know, when 132 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:35.360 I got to when I came to mt one of the things that the director 133 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.399 of entrepreneurship they're told us. His name's Bill allet. He said, don't 134 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.750 fall in love with your idea. You know, ideas can change. He 135 00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:46.029 said find a real problem that you want to solve. And you know, 136 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.909 I went back and thought about that. was about a month before school started. 137 00:08:48.950 --> 00:08:50.350 They had a new a weekend and I was still at lockeyed and I 138 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:54.750 chewed on that information for a while and what I realized was I had a 139 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:58.460 book of a lot of different ideas. You know, I created a list 140 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.580 through the years and ecovent was just one of them, but it was the 141 00:09:01.659 --> 00:09:03.899 one that I thought was the biggest. And the reason why was the problem 142 00:09:05.059 --> 00:09:09.019 was so big and the problem was actually thought about in two thousand and eight. 143 00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:11.610 So back in thousand and eight I was working on a specific radar that 144 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:16.769 could defeat mortars right and it required a lot of power to come out of 145 00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:20.169 this radar and in order to do that it needed perfect temperature control across the 146 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:24.799 front of this radar. It was very, very important that every square millimeter 147 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.559 this radar had similar temperature profile across it, and so the radar had a 148 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.720 lot of things that did that. And at the same time I had been 149 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:37.519 moving around. Lockheed had moved me around to eight different basically careers, different 150 00:09:37.750 --> 00:09:41.710 teams, over the course of me being there, and they were always in 151 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:46.070 different parts of the country. And every single apartment or a house I lived 152 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:48.110 in had this problem where some rooms were too hot and others were too cold. 153 00:09:48.389 --> 00:09:52.980 And in two thousand and eight I was looking to get married and my 154 00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:56.580 wife, who is not Indian, wanted in Indian wedding, which are expensive, 155 00:09:56.779 --> 00:10:00.779 and so yeah, and so I shut down. I walked around my 156 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.019 house and I put books and covered every single air event, you know, 157 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:07.210 like where your air comes out of your healing and cooling system, and I 158 00:10:07.330 --> 00:10:09.370 put books on all the and all the empty rooms. I covered the air 159 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.049 vents because I didn't want to heat and cool the rooms that were empty. 160 00:10:13.289 --> 00:10:16.049 And what happened was my mom came to visit and I forgot to open one 161 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:20.409 of the rooms and she spent the whole night freezing cold and I was so 162 00:10:20.649 --> 00:10:22.759 mad. I was like, why isn't that automatic right? Why isn't be 163 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.559 the concept of that room opening up automatic? And that's when e couvent kind 164 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.080 of sparked as a thought in my head in two thousand and eight and then 165 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:35.230 over probably the next four years I would just chat around with friends about my 166 00:10:35.269 --> 00:10:39.549 ideas. ECOVENT was one that'd come back to a lot, but the technology 167 00:10:39.629 --> 00:10:43.429 just wasn't ready. was so expensive to make an air event move. But 168 00:10:43.549 --> 00:10:48.509 as a smartphone became kind of like commonplace, a lot of devices started getting 169 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.860 very cheat like processors, batteries, radios and, you know, sensors. 170 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:58.179 All of that stuff became commodity and all of a sudden the technology enabled this 171 00:10:58.340 --> 00:11:01.539 system and that's when I realize this, this might be a good time. 172 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.009 And that's really what I learned at Mt was you have to know which problems 173 00:11:05.049 --> 00:11:09.409 are practical to solve in the world that you're in. You know and at 174 00:11:09.769 --> 00:11:13.330 and at the right time. Exact the timing exactly like is the market ready? 175 00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:16.370 Is the is the you know, is the financing ready? Is the 176 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:20.000 is the technology that enables your solution ready? And if you can time all 177 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.480 that stuff correctly, you can do something special, and I felt that, 178 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:26.679 with the timing, had arrived. Yeah, so interesting. You sort of 179 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.960 documentary. General Magic's a very interesting example where you sort of effectively they were 180 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.710 creating the smartphone before it's time, and years later a smartphone does become something 181 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:41.750 that's completely ubiquitous and and trace the opportunity for all new sorts of businesses. 182 00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:43.710 Before we go into sort of equal vent a bit, because I want to 183 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:48.019 talk about your roll a CEO. When you were there, were your parents? 184 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.259 What did your parents do for a living before and after moving here? 185 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:54.700 It's a great question, and they were business people, you know, in 186 00:11:54.820 --> 00:12:00.139 Kenya. My grandfather actually went to Kenya from India because they were both British 187 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:03.330 colonies, you know, and so in the s, the s that is, 188 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:07.490 you know, he recognized that the land of opportunity for Indians was actually 189 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:11.370 in Africa and Kenya, and so a lot of these Indians immigrated to Kenya 190 00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:16.240 and my grandfather was one. He got there, he was working three jobs 191 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:20.480 and he realized that the jobs he was doing, he could almost combine them 192 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.960 to become a CEO. And he was basically a bookkeeper for a construction company. 193 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.399 Yeah, he worked at a library and then he was a bookkeeper for 194 00:12:30.070 --> 00:12:33.190 some other type of company. I'm forgetting which kind it was. And what 195 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:37.470 ended up happening was he realized, oh my gosh, I could do this 196 00:12:37.629 --> 00:12:41.389 construction company. I have all the skills necessary and I know the people that 197 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.539 can, that can swing the hammers. But the actual business he understood, 198 00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:46.899 and so that's what he did. He started a company and my dad and 199 00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:50.460 his brother, my uncle, they were like the two main guys who did 200 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:54.059 the construction with my grandfather. So growing up we all live together, my 201 00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:58.500 dad, his wife, my mom and, you know, our brothers and 202 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.490 sisters and then his brother and his family, and you know, the whole 203 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:05.929 world was around construction. And my mom the same thing. Like you know, 204 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:09.649 she used to sell fruits, you know, import and exporter of African 205 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:13.240 fruit. She had no formal education. Yeah, she just learned by watching. 206 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.679 And you know, now they run a small liquor store in New Jersey, 207 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.639 which is terrifying because it's considered an essential business and you know, they're 208 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.919 jeans and there, you know, immigrant hustle. They won't shut it down. 209 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.190 They're both sick, my mom sixty eight, my dad seventy, and 210 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:31.509 they won't. They won't shut it down. I'm like mom, just turn 211 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:33.629 it off and like no way. Our competitions awake and running and, you 212 00:13:33.710 --> 00:13:37.669 know, our workers need jobs. And I'm like there's the Care Act, 213 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:39.350 you know, there's all these things, and they said right, doesn't matter, 214 00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:41.419 we got a hut, this is my store. It's going to stay 215 00:13:41.419 --> 00:13:45.139 open. And I was like, oh my goodness, you guys are you 216 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:48.700 know, some things you can't turn off, you know. Yeah, yeah, 217 00:13:48.820 --> 00:13:50.659 of course, the backdrop of this recording is that we are locked up 218 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.500 in our homes during the corona pandemic, and so I can certainly relate work 219 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.450 to your point that, you know, just shut it down and go home 220 00:13:56.490 --> 00:14:00.490 kind of thing. But you got to commend them for wanting to, you 221 00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:03.970 know, remain open and and help people. So I think that's yeah, 222 00:14:03.970 --> 00:14:07.129 it's messed up because their DNA. Yeah, you know, cities have realized 223 00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:11.639 that if you actually stop the delivery or, you know, some level of 224 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:18.360 availability of alcohol, you'll actually create more problems for the hospitals because people will 225 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.279 go into detox or they'll try and find it elsewhere interesting. So they've deemed 226 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.590 liquor stores, you know, as a sin essential business, not as a 227 00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:28.389 joke, you know, because we're all like, let's just drink, but 228 00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:31.789 it's really no because you know, the withdrawal effects of people that are addicted, 229 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:35.549 Wow, are really bad. Yeah, really fascinating. I would I 230 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:37.509 wouldn't have thought of that, but Kudos to the healthcare community. Did to 231 00:14:37.580 --> 00:14:41.379 think about that? So interesting. Yeah, me, neither you noticed. 232 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:45.139 My sister told me and she's in the game. So wow. So had 233 00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:46.740 you for me, covent? Tell me about the cofounders, if you had 234 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:50.659 any, and how'd you go from this idea after your I'm for whce one 235 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.090 night to, you know, a new venture? You know, it's funny. 236 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.450 I learned that you have to just take it one step at a time. 237 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.409 Right. If I had if I had got to Sloan and said, 238 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:07.399 okay, in a year I'm going to accomplish all these massive things, it's 239 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.960 overwhelming. You don't know how you're going to get there, you know, 240 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.120 and there's a sense of just fake it, like we're going to get there. 241 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:15.519 You know, but I think what I learned was I just try to 242 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.960 make some progress every day towards my goal. And with the founders that was 243 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.070 really hard, because what I learned was it's really hard to say you're interested 244 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:28.029 in entrepreneurship, but it's very hard to actually stay in entrepreneurship when there's so 245 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:33.429 many options available to you right and so many the founders early on at Sloan, 246 00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:35.620 you know, everyone's like, oh my, this is the game, 247 00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:39.139 I'm going to be an entrepreneur, dip. Your company's awesome, like I 248 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:43.019 can't wait to be a key member. And I had a bunch of cofounders 249 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:48.860 and what happened was, as recruiting started picking up for summer internships, my 250 00:15:48.019 --> 00:15:52.450 cofounders started looking at recruiting and I said, guys, are we are we 251 00:15:52.529 --> 00:15:56.289 all in here, and that's when the real discussion started, and it's what 252 00:15:56.409 --> 00:16:00.690 I learned was it's so interesting that when it comes to really awkward decisions, 253 00:16:00.769 --> 00:16:04.080 if you just kind of break the damn a little bit, just just bring 254 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.200 it up in a safe environment, usually it'll crack. And so I remember 255 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.960 calling one of my cofounders who actually ended up being an entrepreneur himself. I 256 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.440 said, Hey, he's Sam a you. Are you all in, dude? 257 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.230 Are you completely in? And he said honestly, dip, like no, 258 00:16:19.789 --> 00:16:22.789 I'm not, and I said, all right, well, don't worry, 259 00:16:22.029 --> 00:16:25.669 you know, that's fine. That doesn't mean that I hate you or 260 00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:27.149 anything. You know, it just means, like the you're not going to 261 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:30.230 be the guy who builds this with me. You know, you can still 262 00:16:30.350 --> 00:16:33.940 help, we can still be best friends, buddies, you know whatever, 263 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:36.980 but we need I need people that are all in right, because I'm all 264 00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:41.980 in right. And I think having that discussion but an actual way to be 265 00:16:41.259 --> 00:16:44.539 mindful, and I think that's what it was all about. It was like 266 00:16:44.740 --> 00:16:47.929 people think they're all in, but when they realize and you say, well, 267 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:49.169 if you're all in, you wouldn't be looking at recruiting, you know, 268 00:16:49.210 --> 00:16:52.649 if you were all in, you wouldn't be worried about that mid term 269 00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.690 next week. All right, and so the question is, if a getting 270 00:16:56.690 --> 00:17:00.450 an a on a mid term rather than a be is more important than the 271 00:17:00.529 --> 00:17:03.279 company, then you're not all in. And so I think what I learned 272 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:08.240 early on is setting up these ways that the team could find intermediate goals towards 273 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.000 the massive goal, like the massive goal is let's become cofounders. The intermediate 274 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.400 goal, over them, you know, over the steps, is am I 275 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.990 all in? Mi, I all in. Is this really magic? You 276 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:19.589 know? And that's what that's what I learned to do, is set up 277 00:17:19.869 --> 00:17:23.630 ways that we could check in on one another and make sure that everything was 278 00:17:23.750 --> 00:17:27.349 still aligned and with the company does the same thing. It was yes, 279 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.420 we need funding, but what we can do next week is we can do 280 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:34.140 X. and the method we learned at, you know, MIT, was 281 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:40.180 go find out what the market objections are and then solve them. Don't guess, 282 00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:41.420 you know, go to the market, and that's what we did. 283 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:45.450 I go to anybody who had money and I would say what would I need 284 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:48.690 to show you for you to invest right and they'd say, look, I 285 00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:51.490 don't belie leave you can build hardware, I don't think you can make this 286 00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:53.049 work, I don't think you couldn recruit a team, I don't think you 287 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:56.210 can sell this. These are the different objections that we heard, you know, 288 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:00.519 over and over again, and I think that it made it real simple 289 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.720 to just bite off one tiny problem at a time, and that was the 290 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.839 key, I think, and as we did that over the course of a 291 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.160 year. I ended up finding some cool actual cofounders and, you know, 292 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.829 working our way through a rhythm. But that was also aided a lot by 293 00:18:14.869 --> 00:18:18.630 the curriculum at Mt you know, interesting. So let me play that back. 294 00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:21.829 So you're saying that you know, the way you go from an idea 295 00:18:21.910 --> 00:18:25.829 to a company is to break it up into smaller steps, so it's not 296 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:29.220 eat the whole sandwich at once, right to some nibbles at a time. 297 00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:33.700 And also finding the right team to work with requires some very, you know, 298 00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:37.259 tough questions to be asked right on a continuous basis. Are you all 299 00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:42.009 in? And earlier you said it's hard to become an entrepreneur and it's hard 300 00:18:42.009 --> 00:18:45.490 to stay an entrepreneur. Did you mean it to say it's easy to say 301 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:49.730 you want to become an entrepreneur and it's hard to stay as an entrepreneur? 302 00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:52.529 You are you saying both are hard? Yeah, no, I think it's 303 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:56.119 easier to say I want to dip my toe right, yeah, into this 304 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.279 game and be entrepreneur, but but when things get hard all of a sudden, 305 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.640 you know those corporate jobs look just real peachy right, and I think 306 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.279 that's you know what one of the things I learned that blew my mind was, 307 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:12.069 you know, startups take a long time to reach an exit. You 308 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:15.869 know, they don't happen in a couple of years. And it feels that 309 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:18.349 way when you're when you're outside looking in, because you see these exits and 310 00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:22.869 you see these magical situations, but in reality, even companies like ways right, 311 00:19:23.069 --> 00:19:26.140 which seems like such a clear company and had such traction, it took 312 00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:30.500 seven years, right, you know, and so I think that's the thing 313 00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:33.019 that I learned was, you know, you have to find a way to 314 00:19:33.140 --> 00:19:37.940 persist, and most people can't do it because they're not prepared for the chaos, 315 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:41.289 you know, that just rampant within entrepreneurship, because everything you're doing is 316 00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:45.730 new for the most part. So, as I understand it, because you 317 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.730 know, we know each other, you eventually formed a team, you got 318 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:52.119 the general concept together, you actually did a stint or applied for text ours 319 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.359 as well, to develop the idea fuller and get some more experience, right. 320 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.960 Yeah, yeah, text oars was a transformative experience. It was awesome. 321 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.799 Yeah, and then from there you sort of jump in with both feet 322 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.789 and launched a company. And then now someone you know, your you guys 323 00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:11.269 are walking in the room. Were going to build this thing and there's an 324 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:14.109 empty seat. It's called the CEO seat. How do you decide who sits 325 00:20:14.109 --> 00:20:17.269 in that one? Ha Ha. That was you know, it is really 326 00:20:17.349 --> 00:20:21.430 funny because early days with the early cofounders, it was something that was always 327 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:23.299 kind of an elephant in the room, you know, but we never talked 328 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:29.220 about it really. But through the text ours process, Katie Ray asked me 329 00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:32.059 point blank. She said, who can fire who? Yeah, right, 330 00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:36.289 and I luckily, at that point, inadvertently, the team had kind of 331 00:20:36.329 --> 00:20:38.490 all figured out that I was in charge, and I think that was because 332 00:20:38.730 --> 00:20:42.289 I was like the the hub of the wheel, you know, until everyone 333 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:45.130 like no one, no one knew not everybody knew each other. I was 334 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:48.849 the one who knew everybody and I think because of that that helped me kind 335 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.240 of assume leadership. However, you know, when it comes to actual startups, 336 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.920 I've seen some really successful startups switch CEOS in the early days. Just 337 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:02.119 yeah, the reason between among the the cofound among the cofounders. Yeah, 338 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.309 because even though those at person x who came up with the idea and had 339 00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:10.670 had all the original traction and recruited the whole team and just everything was done 340 00:21:10.710 --> 00:21:14.190 by this one person. When the team started executing, the team realized, 341 00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:18.339 and that person realized that the company needed another person to Seeo, not that 342 00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:22.779 person, you know. And I think that as the company grew, it 343 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:30.059 was continuously me who wanted that role more and strive to grow into that role 344 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:33.009 more, and so I kept that role. But I think that if other 345 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:37.490 teammates, let's just say I, really just wanted to be working on the 346 00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:41.369 technology right, then it would be silly for me to be also be the 347 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.890 CEO whose job is not to work on the technology. Right, right, 348 00:21:45.009 --> 00:21:49.160 right, and so I think that those discussions early on were really good because 349 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.839 it helped a line us, because I'm a very technical person, you know, 350 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.240 but I am not the most technical person. Nor was I the person 351 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.079 who wanted to be the technical person at e covent and you know, some 352 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.750 of the people who were who are business people, were also very technical and 353 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:07.829 they ended up being more technical people because that's what they wanted to do and 354 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:11.069 I think and that's where they were most needed for the company. And so 355 00:22:11.470 --> 00:22:14.109 that's kind of how it went in the early days. It was just first 356 00:22:14.150 --> 00:22:17.099 it was sloppy and, you know, it was survived level of the fittest 357 00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:19.220 and no one stuck around, and so to still me. But then as 358 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.019 we actually started growing, I think we were a lot more mindful of it 359 00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:25.740 and we would measure ourselves on it. You know, how's the team doing? 360 00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:27.740 How's dip doing a CEO, which is a really hard thing to measure, 361 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:30.809 my opinion, right. So I'd like to interview that dip, that 362 00:22:30.970 --> 00:22:34.529 first time CEO dip. What surprised you to most about the role when you 363 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:38.329 sat in the seat? What was different than your expectations? Yeah, I 364 00:22:38.490 --> 00:22:41.289 think that you know, you take this the role because you're like I just 365 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:45.440 I want to make the decisions right and at least initially like, okay, 366 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.880 I'll be, I'll be the guy who gets to make all the decisions. 367 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.599 Are I'll be, I'll get to be the final stamp. It's going to 368 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:55.400 be my like I get full control. And what you realize is you kind 369 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.829 of don't, because you're building a company with very smart people and they're going 370 00:22:57.829 --> 00:23:03.309 to convince you and hopefully you know really what you are is trying to find 371 00:23:03.349 --> 00:23:06.990 the best of something. And then the thing that surprised me the most, 372 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:10.349 beyond the fact that first of all, you do have this control, but 373 00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:14.099 what happens is your voice is different than everyone else's, and I don't think 374 00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:17.299 I was ready for that. Like, if I panic a little bit, 375 00:23:17.299 --> 00:23:21.059 it's different than if any other executive panics. Right. Why is that? 376 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:25.259 Because everyone's looking to you. Yeah, because my voice is amplified, right, 377 00:23:25.420 --> 00:23:29.769 and way more than I then I originally thought. And it makes it 378 00:23:29.930 --> 00:23:33.849 very lonely and extremely challenging and lonely position, because you don't get the you 379 00:23:33.890 --> 00:23:37.809 don't get the same kind of in my opinion, you don't get the same 380 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:42.160 almost leeway or slop in your learning as if I were learning just about any 381 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.559 other role in the startup. There's more room for failure, right, and 382 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:51.599 it's less spotlight and so right, I think be it's like it's simultaneously everyone's 383 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:53.759 watching you, but you're also alone, even if you have a close set 384 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:59.230 of cofounders, which I did, and we had amazing transparency and my and 385 00:23:59.349 --> 00:24:03.630 my wife is tremendously supportive and I can share anything with her without freaking her 386 00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:07.509 out. It's impossible to share everything that goes through your head as CEO, 387 00:24:07.869 --> 00:24:11.259 you know, and so it's scary. Yeah, it's very true. What 388 00:24:11.380 --> 00:24:14.859 else? These are all good. Yeah, you know, when you when 389 00:24:14.859 --> 00:24:17.420 you play it back, it's like you think it's all about making decisions. 390 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:22.740 It's not. You think exactly, it's lonely. You think it's yeah, 391 00:24:22.779 --> 00:24:26.369 it's like we're more coming was. It's not. Exactly. Tell me more. 392 00:24:26.809 --> 00:24:30.450 What else would else? The other things that are different is that you 393 00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:36.329 have to make decisions that sometimes nobody agrees with, you know, and you 394 00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:40.160 just have to trust in yourself. You have to. I would say that 395 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.480 the part that made it the most exciting for me was the rate at which 396 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.960 I was learning. You know, I was learning so many new skills, 397 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.190 so many new things. Everything was a was and there's so many people to 398 00:24:52.269 --> 00:24:56.430 learn from. You know, that's the other beauty of being a CEO. 399 00:24:56.549 --> 00:25:00.349 There's a ton of if you say, how do I become the best CTO, 400 00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:03.470 you might have a hundred thousand books. I'm just making numbers up right. 401 00:25:03.789 --> 00:25:06.269 If you say how do I become the best CEO, there's probably a 402 00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:11.220 million books, right. And so there's there's this weird situation where there's a 403 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:14.059 lot of there's a lot of body of knowledge of how to become a good 404 00:25:14.059 --> 00:25:17.660 leader, how to become a good manager, right, but simultaneously it's such 405 00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:21.180 a unique, lonely role that you can't really apply at all, and I 406 00:25:21.259 --> 00:25:25.490 think that that's where the value of having other CEOS as my peers, you 407 00:25:25.569 --> 00:25:29.769 know, the through the Group and through coaching, like getting getting a CEO 408 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:33.490 coach, help that stuff grow. And that was just to me. The 409 00:25:33.609 --> 00:25:37.960 experience was intoxicating. I was learning so much and when things were going good, 410 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:42.640 I felt like our team could accomplish anything we could possibly want to accomplished, 411 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:47.079 and when things were going bad, I felt like, my goodness, 412 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:49.950 I am being challenged in ways that I never thought I would be challenged, 413 00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:55.109 you know, post marriage, you know it's yeah, it's like I kind 414 00:25:55.150 --> 00:25:56.509 of my career on track, I kind of have my wife, like I 415 00:25:56.549 --> 00:26:03.750 don't expect these like existential mind challenges, but they come and it's like action 416 00:26:03.869 --> 00:26:06.900 sports. You know, they're incredibly thrilling, but when you get hit it 417 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:10.380 hurts. Yeah, and that's got to pick up and keep going because it's 418 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:12.339 amazing. Yeah, tell us about the culture of ECO event and how much 419 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:15.539 you helped to shape that. And when did you do it? Did you 420 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:19.250 do it earlier, or did it evolved organically and then you sort of molded 421 00:26:19.289 --> 00:26:22.049 it a bit more? That's a good question, man. I think that 422 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:26.890 it did evolve organically, you know. As you know, I have a 423 00:26:26.930 --> 00:26:30.329 strong personality, you know, and so I certainly shaped it, but I 424 00:26:30.410 --> 00:26:33.799 think a lot of the CO founders at equivent had strong personalities. Maybe they're 425 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.319 not as rambuncious as me, but they were very strong in their ways and 426 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:42.119 I think in the I'm a very team oriented person, because that's what I 427 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.680 saw. I'd at lockeed. I noticed that there's Maverick, sure, but 428 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:49.509 there were these units of Eight and ten, twelve people that could just accomplish 429 00:26:49.549 --> 00:26:52.869 so much and I wanted to be at the head of one of those, 430 00:26:52.990 --> 00:26:56.109 you know. And so I think that when we really decided to take the 431 00:26:56.150 --> 00:27:00.940 culture seriously and put ink to paper and like really start thinking about our values 432 00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:07.539 and all of that, was when we raised our first round and we started 433 00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:11.619 recruiting people that weren't co founders. The cofounders sat down and we put our 434 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:15.380 values on paper and what matter to us, why we joined the company, 435 00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:18.890 you know, and what couple of values we thought were the most important for 436 00:27:19.130 --> 00:27:22.609 the company, and then we actually went out with with the team at that 437 00:27:22.730 --> 00:27:26.609 stage. And I think at that point there was eight of us and we 438 00:27:26.890 --> 00:27:29.930 one of them is a profession was a professional sailor. So he took us 439 00:27:29.970 --> 00:27:33.920 to this like remote area on a sailboat and we just hung out and we 440 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.319 ate subway sandwiches and we lit a fire and just talked, you know, 441 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.960 about how we wanted to grow the company and then from there I think we 442 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.869 held each other accountable to our values. And so that was about the design, 443 00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:48.430 I would say, the most in terms of like designing the culture that 444 00:27:48.549 --> 00:27:52.589 we did. I think the other the thing that actually grew our culture was 445 00:27:52.869 --> 00:27:55.390 you can't really fake it. You know, you can try and aim it, 446 00:27:55.670 --> 00:27:57.740 but it's what you exude. You know. It's like here, it's 447 00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:03.019 Saluna, right, like we say transparency, but it's hard to be transparent, 448 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:07.180 right. And so when the things get challenging and you actually are transparent 449 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:10.579 and you share the things that are scary to share, that's how you show 450 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:12.529 that these values aren't just, you know, it's right, something on a 451 00:28:12.569 --> 00:28:15.250 wall. Right, they're real. You have to live them and you have 452 00:28:15.450 --> 00:28:19.609 to be the beacon, right to some extent, to CEO, you really 453 00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:23.410 have to be the personification of those written values. Oh Yeah, man, 454 00:28:23.490 --> 00:28:27.200 and I know that. Something I've learned from you. Just constantly operating now 455 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:33.000 is this realignment to the North Star, right, and it's something that I 456 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.440 think that it is the CEO's job, because everyone else kind of has a 457 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.599 little bit more focused of a job, right, and you know, you're 458 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:41.789 the guy who's like wait, wait a minute, let's just take a step 459 00:28:41.829 --> 00:28:45.069 back. How does that further this bigger mission that, even though we're not, 460 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.869 I'm paying attention to it, even though right now we're focused on it. 461 00:28:48.029 --> 00:28:52.430 This, this smaller mission, and having that little realignment, I think 462 00:28:52.589 --> 00:28:56.779 is so valuable and something that I'm still learning how to do, to be 463 00:28:56.900 --> 00:29:00.460 honest with you. That's great. Let's talk about dip, as the teacher 464 00:29:00.579 --> 00:29:03.180 now. So you grew ecovent said, eventually was sold. You've now moved 465 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:08.220 on to the renewable energy space and doing all sorts of interesting things there and 466 00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:12.650 in your limited spare time, which somehow you create out of thin air, 467 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:18.369 you teach young entrepreneurs, also at MIT. Is this part of the business 468 00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:21.130 school, this loan program it is part of this loan program yeah, tell 469 00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:22.809 us about that. What is the course you teach and how does it fit 470 00:29:22.890 --> 00:29:26.880 into the overall course program yeah, I'm so lucky to be able to do 471 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.400 this. It's called advanced tools and entrepreneurship, tools and techniques and entrepreneurship. 472 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.480 The reason I don't know the actual title is because colloquially we call it GSD. 473 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:38.789 Get Shit done. And yeah, it's so. When we were there 474 00:29:38.789 --> 00:29:41.829 it was called one fifteen, three hundred and seventy eight PSD. You know, 475 00:29:42.029 --> 00:29:45.150 we always use course numbers at MIT, and at Mit we have a 476 00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:49.789 pretty well curated list of entrepreneurship courses, you know, and if you like, 477 00:29:49.910 --> 00:29:52.660 for example, if Phil went there, right, fills our Corp Dev 478 00:29:52.779 --> 00:29:56.299 and Finance Guru. You know, Phil went there, he could take all 479 00:29:56.299 --> 00:30:00.700 these entrepreneurship classes focused on finance and the legal aspects of it, right, 480 00:30:00.700 --> 00:30:03.900 as well as the ones growing culture and team and so there's such a nice 481 00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:08.410 yeah, there's this huge go da within the program you can go deep in 482 00:30:08.490 --> 00:30:14.529 certain areas exactly because they're the it's such a comprehensive program the entrepreneurship one, 483 00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:18.970 and this is considered the most advanced of those. So we only and that's 484 00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:22.240 why I'm able to teach it, even though we're running eat SALUNA. It's 485 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.000 because it's a very intimate class. Like Day One we accept pitches from teams 486 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.079 that are they have to be teams that are existing in companies that are somewhat 487 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:33.599 going at mit and really, yeah, they come in and pitch with their 488 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.309 whole team and then we only accept six teams into the home room. So 489 00:30:37.390 --> 00:30:41.190 it's like a mini accelerator. Yeah, it's a class of teams. It's 490 00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:45.190 a class of teams and the reason we keep it only to six people is 491 00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:48.990 there's four lectures, believe it or not, and we rotate out who they 492 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.460 are, and usually they're they're just people that have operated, you know, 493 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:56.819 who know how to run businesses and very relevant experience. And we keep it 494 00:30:56.940 --> 00:31:00.299 to six teams because the problems are so they're the same, but they're also 495 00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:04.450 unique, and that's what's so exciting about teaching because I get to see these 496 00:31:04.569 --> 00:31:11.809 students go through this massive transformation, because everybody at mit initially thinks the idea 497 00:31:12.009 --> 00:31:18.130 and the technology is what matters, but it's really the problem and the method 498 00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:21.200 and the business model that you're going to solve that problem that matters, and 499 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:26.240 we, we kind of are responsible for creating that that shift in their brain 500 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.640 to tell that the technology is not going to your technology is not going to 501 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:36.150 create sales. If anything, it hold it back, and so you better 502 00:31:36.230 --> 00:31:38.349 learn this other side. You know, and it's a very challenging thing to 503 00:31:38.509 --> 00:31:42.470 train people that are literally the best engineers in the world, that they better 504 00:31:42.509 --> 00:31:45.950 engineer their business with the same figure that they do their tech or they're going 505 00:31:45.950 --> 00:31:48.539 to get they're going to get wrecked, and that's where the value of a 506 00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:53.339 real CEO and real business people, I think, start to become real and 507 00:31:53.819 --> 00:31:57.420 I think that's the key, if you could teach entrepreneur, is that the 508 00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:01.769 skills that they don't know are equally valuable is the ones that they do like. 509 00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:06.650 If I'm strong and engineering, I better value marketing, sales and design 510 00:32:06.809 --> 00:32:09.410 right. If I'm a great designer, I better recognize that the math required 511 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:15.130 in the programming is really hard and marketing, even though I'm giving you all 512 00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:17.920 the pretty pictures, the the verbs, the the way you move this person, 513 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:23.039 is hard and I think that showing folks that these different axes can become 514 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:28.200 a place of strength and you should value them, otherwise you'll get beat. 515 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.190 Is is really, really fun now is the team makeup a mixture of those 516 00:32:31.230 --> 00:32:35.630 different roles, or you can have, let's say you just find members of 517 00:32:35.670 --> 00:32:37.589 a team. How many members? Yeah, usually you've got somewhere between two 518 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:42.509 and four, and UN fortunately there isn't the diversity we'd like. You know. 519 00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:45.900 So you can have three technology guys and they're in this course and and 520 00:32:45.940 --> 00:32:51.980 they're learning GSD, which is to learn everything beyond technology that drives to success 521 00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:54.059 of a business. Exactly. And actually, in a way it's better if 522 00:32:54.099 --> 00:32:58.019 you don't have that diversity, because that's really what you're trying to hammer in. 523 00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:01.289 Right here's what happens when you don't feels like you don't know. Yeah, 524 00:33:01.329 --> 00:33:04.650 and they get to see the teams that have it and see how they're 525 00:33:04.650 --> 00:33:07.970 making progress. You know, it's other teams that do right exactly, very 526 00:33:08.009 --> 00:33:12.329 interesting, and so give us an example of the types of projects they do 527 00:33:12.529 --> 00:33:15.240 in the course. All, one of the greatest ones that I can give 528 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.160 you. I say that only I love all my children right now, but 529 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.680 one of the teams that I think is is really interesting right now is a 530 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:28.670 company called e fish, and you know, they started out saying fish harvesters 531 00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:32.029 are getting beat because there's this thing called the quota system. Where you can 532 00:33:32.069 --> 00:33:37.430 only catch up to a limited quota and you get the amount of quota that's 533 00:33:37.829 --> 00:33:40.940 size to your initial business. And so these small fisherman got a tiny quota 534 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.859 and rather than going out fishing and trying to sell it, they just sell 535 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:49.579 a quota, right, and that makes it very hard to get good seafood 536 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.059 because it all gets fished and put together in these massive conglomerates of fishing companies. 537 00:33:53.299 --> 00:33:58.170 And so this guy, this founder, and his team, they said 538 00:33:58.250 --> 00:34:01.450 we're going to connect harvesters directly to high end restaurants, you know, and 539 00:34:01.650 --> 00:34:06.170 they hustled their way into Jag in New York. They sent him a shipment 540 00:34:06.210 --> 00:34:08.530 of oysters. That's how they got is at tension. Yeah, and the 541 00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:12.880 reason I think it's so fascinating and I bring it up, is their business 542 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:17.039 died a few months ago when covid isolation started, right, because restaurants, 543 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:22.199 seventy or eighty percent of seafood sales goes to restaurants, right, and those 544 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:27.150 restaurants are no longer buying seafood. And so what you're learning is distributors are 545 00:34:27.230 --> 00:34:30.789 getting their butts whipped because they're their customers are going away and these harvesters are 546 00:34:30.829 --> 00:34:35.989 getting even more messed up because the distributors aren't buying from them and the people 547 00:34:36.030 --> 00:34:38.380 who used to buy quotas aren't. And so these guys, you know, 548 00:34:38.739 --> 00:34:42.099 when this happened, they're like what do we do? We said, well, 549 00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:44.940 the problem you're solving is the harvest of problem. So go talk to 550 00:34:45.019 --> 00:34:47.019 them and see how you can help them make money. And what they've done 551 00:34:47.019 --> 00:34:51.019 now is start. And originally they didn't want to do direct be to see, 552 00:34:51.059 --> 00:34:53.809 they didn't want to connect the harvester to the customer because the logistics of 553 00:34:53.929 --> 00:34:58.449 shipping, you know, oysters and clams and muscles, if the person isn't 554 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:00.690 home to receive the package, is risky, right. But they solve that 555 00:35:00.809 --> 00:35:05.849 and now people are home. And so what they're doing is they've pivoted their 556 00:35:05.889 --> 00:35:10.880 entire business into this by clams, muscles and oysters from directly from the farmers. 557 00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.079 And I'll tell you, John, my wife is pregnant and, as 558 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.079 you know, and we went to the hospital and the doctor said do what 559 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.789 you can to get home delivery and I tried to go to butcher box and 560 00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:24.670 they were sold out. You know, I went to a bunch of these 561 00:35:24.789 --> 00:35:29.389 like meal by delivery services and they were sold out. You know who wasn't 562 00:35:29.389 --> 00:35:34.789 sold out? These guys, the farmers exactly. I went from the restaurants, 563 00:35:34.829 --> 00:35:37.820 right, exactly. So I went I found a farm in Montana that 564 00:35:37.940 --> 00:35:40.139 sells beef and I said, we do, you guys, and they offer 565 00:35:40.179 --> 00:35:44.780 a box and they had plenty of stock, because they're not right, because 566 00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:47.219 they still have the cows, right, and I'm gonna go to the restaurant. 567 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:52.210 So they just redirected different actually exactly, and I think that that's going 568 00:35:52.210 --> 00:35:54.010 to be awesome. And e fish is doing the same. You can if 569 00:35:54.050 --> 00:35:57.409 you want. You know, they have a website and you can literally just 570 00:35:57.530 --> 00:36:00.289 put in I think it was sixty bucks and I got two dozen oysters and 571 00:36:00.409 --> 00:36:04.210 three pounds of muscles. Well, and man, let me tell you, 572 00:36:04.289 --> 00:36:07.440 they were delicious. They were so fresh. Everything was perfect. Not a 573 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.280 single oyster and muscle was bad. It was great. And so that's just 574 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:14.679 an example, you know, of a company weathering this storm and pivoting and 575 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.320 just hustling. But I like the question that you asked him, which was 576 00:36:17.949 --> 00:36:21.750 the problem you're solving. Go back to the roots, right, what's the 577 00:36:21.829 --> 00:36:25.309 problem you're solving and zoom in on that right, is that problem still exist? 578 00:36:27.150 --> 00:36:30.190 So it's now it's just an in exercise and finding a new solution to 579 00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:32.260 that problem that fits with the current environment. But the problem, they still 580 00:36:32.300 --> 00:36:37.059 exist. That's exactly it, man, because see, that's that's the biggest 581 00:36:37.099 --> 00:36:40.380 Achilles heel. You Fall in love with a technology or the solution exact and 582 00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:44.820 that is not going to persist over seven years. The problem, right? 583 00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:47.449 Yes, yes, as the world changes, the problem just, you know, 584 00:36:47.769 --> 00:36:52.090 warps or it either becomes more cute or less acute, but it's still 585 00:36:52.530 --> 00:36:57.929 is the persistent thing that you should base the business around. So interesting, 586 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:01.079 it's it's something that I love. It makes it a lot easier to execute, 587 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:04.840 believe it or not. So, in the course, out of curiosity 588 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.320 to do you present the problems to the tea teams and they all work on 589 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.519 the same problem, problem, I mean like problem sets for them to work 590 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.389 on, right, or do you take their projects and then create problem sets 591 00:37:15.429 --> 00:37:19.269 for them that are related to their projects? Or Yea. So, no, 592 00:37:19.710 --> 00:37:22.789 it's interesting how it works, right, because it's this such a nice 593 00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:25.829 ratio of team to instructor. And so it's a threehour class and typically what 594 00:37:25.909 --> 00:37:30.900 we do is we do an hour of a themed lecture. Right, that 595 00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:34.900 isn't taught in many other courses that might and we think is relevant to this 596 00:37:35.099 --> 00:37:37.980 cohort. And then what we do is for two hours after that first hour, 597 00:37:38.260 --> 00:37:43.860 we break off into one on once and these teams get coaching from each 598 00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:46.889 of the coaches and we basically say what's on your mind right now? What 599 00:37:46.969 --> 00:37:51.730 do you think's the most scary? And that's when it becomes hyper relevant gotten 600 00:37:51.849 --> 00:37:54.050 to them. And so other than some topics, like on Monday we did 601 00:37:54.170 --> 00:37:58.570 fundraising. That was there weren't many one on ones because there's just so much 602 00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:00.920 to talk about in the fundraise right. Got It. So if you zoom 603 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.920 back, let's zoom out a little bit, and you know, the essence 604 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.800 of this course and the collision between the course and what you're teaching and your 605 00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:15.630 own experience is fundamentally entrepreneurship. And how would you say your own entrepreneur experience 606 00:38:15.789 --> 00:38:20.630 has informed the way you teach, in the way you give advice to these 607 00:38:20.789 --> 00:38:24.110 teams and to entrepreneurs you come across? Oh Man, that's such a I'm 608 00:38:24.110 --> 00:38:27.980 so glad you asked that because it's something I think about a lot, you 609 00:38:28.059 --> 00:38:30.380 know, and the students when I when I've asked them that question, they've 610 00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:36.980 told me that the reason it's so valuable to them is because we're giving them 611 00:38:37.019 --> 00:38:40.769 actual examples from our companies, like we did it, versus reading a case 612 00:38:40.809 --> 00:38:45.610 versus a wellknown book, right, and because we did it, we can 613 00:38:45.690 --> 00:38:50.570 get into the mindset I was in. You know, I was scared, 614 00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:52.849 I wasn't eating, I wasn't working out, you know whatever. Like these 615 00:38:52.969 --> 00:38:58.719 same feelings that they're having we're able to articulate in the story and I think 616 00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:02.559 that makes them realize that not only is every company unique, but they're almost 617 00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:06.559 the same too, and you're going to run into similar problems. And so, 618 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.679 right, it's okay to be scared, it's okay to feel like like 619 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:13.110 an imposter, right. What's not okay is in action as a result of 620 00:39:13.230 --> 00:39:15.670 those things, and I think we help break that Shell, you know, 621 00:39:15.869 --> 00:39:20.590 and I think the we're you actually have to get out there and fight the 622 00:39:20.670 --> 00:39:22.949 battle, you know exactly, and being an operator helps, and I think 623 00:39:22.989 --> 00:39:27.300 that's what makes it unique. All, for the people who are teaching are 624 00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:30.059 either running a company now or have ran a company in the past or if 625 00:39:30.099 --> 00:39:35.380 continuously run companies right and and we're all a little bit different. So it's 626 00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:37.539 really, really great and I think that that's the value, because it's so 627 00:39:38.449 --> 00:39:43.690 personal to us that we're not just we're not telling them things on a third 628 00:39:43.769 --> 00:39:45.610 person. It's like, this is how I felt. It's really hard to 629 00:39:45.690 --> 00:39:49.170 contest how I felt. Right, I'm not going to lie to you about 630 00:39:49.210 --> 00:39:51.969 that. And so you know, it makes it a lot more real, 631 00:39:52.050 --> 00:39:53.239 I think, and it lets them open up. So I think it's a 632 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:57.360 level of vulnerability we're able to build in our class. That's why I only 633 00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:00.320 accept six, six teams. And another thing we do is we don't have 634 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.280 guest speakers and we don't record these classes, which is counter to a lot 635 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.269 of them might courses, you know, right, right. So they've really 636 00:40:07.269 --> 00:40:12.030 got experience it firsthand. So a little while back you wrote an article that 637 00:40:12.429 --> 00:40:17.710 kind of laid out some of the column common pitfalls that affect the success of 638 00:40:17.869 --> 00:40:21.820 a start up. There for to come to mind. I want to sort 639 00:40:21.820 --> 00:40:24.579 of remind you of them and get your elaboration on them. As about for 640 00:40:24.820 --> 00:40:30.260 now. Go to her is. Entrepreneurship is a career. Embrace the chaos. 641 00:40:30.860 --> 00:40:31.940 What do you mean by that? Yeah, you know what I what 642 00:40:32.019 --> 00:40:37.570 I mean is that I've noticed that careers have characteristics, you know, and 643 00:40:37.730 --> 00:40:40.170 one of the characteristics is like competition. Another is like, you know, 644 00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:44.489 what is the challenge of the thing? You know, how much recognition do 645 00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.650 you get if you succeed? These are all different axes, right, and 646 00:40:47.130 --> 00:40:51.800 entrepreneurship is a choice for a career you can make. And the thing that 647 00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.039 that is the highest entrepreneurship is the chaos. Right, if you look at 648 00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:59.400 like finance, for example, like if I'm going to go work at Goldman 649 00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.800 sacks, then the chaos might be a lot lower. But there's other things 650 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.150 that are really high, like competition, you know, like selling, being 651 00:41:07.230 --> 00:41:10.429 a salesman, being persuasive, right. And I think that what we teach 652 00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:14.750 is that, or what I like is that if you're afraid of the chaos, 653 00:41:14.829 --> 00:41:20.860 if you can't thrive inside chaos, then you need to pick the entrepreneurship 654 00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:24.420 persona that matches. So if you can't handle crazy chaos, don't become a 655 00:41:24.500 --> 00:41:29.539 founder, right, join a bigger company, like you can still be an 656 00:41:29.579 --> 00:41:31.969 entrepreneur of sorts by joining a series be company and if you like it, 657 00:41:32.050 --> 00:41:35.449 then join a series a then, if you like get joined, right. 658 00:41:35.449 --> 00:41:37.730 So there's and that's that's the idea. It's like. Yeah, and the 659 00:41:37.809 --> 00:41:43.130 spectrum. The one commonality and entrepreneurship across everything that I've seen is that you're 660 00:41:43.130 --> 00:41:45.130 dealing with the unknown and, as a result, there's a ton of chaos. 661 00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:49.400 You have no idea what's going to happen and you have to be the 662 00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.880 kind of person that can live in that world and thrive. And if you 663 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:54.639 can, then you're in great shape, and if you can't, you should. 664 00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:58.360 You should study and figure out ways to do that, you know. 665 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:01.309 Or again, just toned down the chaos by making the company bigger, less 666 00:42:01.349 --> 00:42:06.030 risky, right, interesting. So you can choose where you want to play 667 00:42:06.030 --> 00:42:10.269 across the spectrum, but just be warned that entrepreneurship is about chaos. And 668 00:42:10.349 --> 00:42:15.340 you feel comfortable being in chaos exactly different. There's different degrees of it and 669 00:42:15.500 --> 00:42:19.460 you can choose your level of pain if you will, and if you love 670 00:42:19.539 --> 00:42:22.300 it, then then entrepreneurship is the career for you. You know, like 671 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:25.659 think about healthcare, right, if I'm into chaos and high stakes, I'm 672 00:42:25.659 --> 00:42:30.570 a trauma surgeon, right, right, you know, I'm a LODIACTORC I 673 00:42:30.690 --> 00:42:34.889 see you, you know, and so you can choose within this world of 674 00:42:35.010 --> 00:42:39.730 healthcare, you know, and entrepreneurship is a world and the common thread is 675 00:42:40.090 --> 00:42:45.440 just chaos. In my opinion, that's great. Next one is get your 676 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:47.559 hands dirty. Your brilliant, but you still need to take out the trash. 677 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.039 Oh Man, this is so crazy because so many entrepreneurs arelike, I 678 00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:55.199 just need a businessperson to do this. You know, they're like, I 679 00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:58.630 built the tech, I need I need a businessperson to sell it. I 680 00:42:58.670 --> 00:43:00.070 go, no, you don't. I said, go to the train right 681 00:43:00.110 --> 00:43:04.190 now, take it, take your thing and see if anybody buy it. 682 00:43:04.349 --> 00:43:06.909 You know, and I think that's what it's all about. It's like you 683 00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:10.750 have to especially a CEO, but more so is founding team. It's up 684 00:43:10.750 --> 00:43:14.780 to you to see where your company is lacking and to fill those gaps. 685 00:43:15.619 --> 00:43:17.420 No, there is no large company. There is no you know, when 686 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:20.820 I was at lockey, to had a materials pricing group, I had a 687 00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:22.940 sourcing group, I had a legal group out a contracts group. Right, 688 00:43:23.139 --> 00:43:27.250 you don't have any of that, and so you have to figure out where 689 00:43:27.289 --> 00:43:30.329 you're week. And if your toilet is dirty, you better go clean it 690 00:43:30.409 --> 00:43:32.769 because your team is going to be impacted, right, if their teammate happy. 691 00:43:34.010 --> 00:43:36.969 You have to fix it, and it's the same with just hustling your 692 00:43:37.010 --> 00:43:42.320 business. It's do not think any task is beneath you or one that is 693 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.119 outside of your scope. Every task has to be in your scope. If 694 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:46.760 you don't know how to sell, you better learn quickly. You know. 695 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.360 Yeah, so on and so forth. That's right, I can relate. 696 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:52.920 I mean there was probably at some point in one of my roles to CEO 697 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:59.429 where I think I had like several different jobs at one time and it was 698 00:43:59.510 --> 00:44:02.510 just what was required of me at the time and ultimately those roles were filled. 699 00:44:02.750 --> 00:44:07.190 But having been in those seats and those roles, it first of all 700 00:44:07.269 --> 00:44:12.300 made my search for the right leader in those rules so much more effective because 701 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:14.900 I knew what they had to do. Doesn't mean I knew what they had 702 00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:16.460 to do better than them. It's just more that I understood their job and 703 00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:20.139 they're playing love that selling. Selling is hard, you know, and you 704 00:44:20.179 --> 00:44:22.460 don't really understand how hard it is. You know, you hire sales person, 705 00:44:22.539 --> 00:44:25.050 especially as a new entrepreneur, you're like, how come you're not selling? 706 00:44:25.130 --> 00:44:28.210 Like the product is perfect, like why don't you sell it? You 707 00:44:28.289 --> 00:44:30.369 know, see your job. What do you mean? Yeah, you're probably. 708 00:44:30.409 --> 00:44:32.210 Why don't you doing this? You know what's wrong with your know it. 709 00:44:32.489 --> 00:44:36.090 This product is perfect, but until you get out there and try to 710 00:44:36.210 --> 00:44:38.119 sling, you know what I mean, something exactly, then as it's an 711 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:43.800 punched in the gut or thrown out there window, I like to say you 712 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.360 don't really know what it means to sell or to convince people that you know 713 00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:51.599 the problem you believe is an important problem, is truly important right now. 714 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:53.550 So you really got you get your hands dirty to understand that. You know 715 00:44:53.630 --> 00:44:58.150 what jot. I've never ever heard you complain either when you've had to do 716 00:44:58.150 --> 00:45:00.070 work that was like, you know, like in the others I've known you. 717 00:45:00.150 --> 00:45:02.150 I don't think I've ever heard you just get it done. You do 718 00:45:02.269 --> 00:45:05.869 what you got to do. You there, you gonna do that's right. 719 00:45:06.230 --> 00:45:07.780 I love it. Man, are you go companty? Have a great team. 720 00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:12.659 You can't be the best of everything, but your need to surround yourself 721 00:45:12.940 --> 00:45:15.219 with the best. Yeah, this ties into, you know, a little 722 00:45:15.219 --> 00:45:17.420 bit of what I was just saying, like it's your job to find the 723 00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:21.730 holes. You know, I liken it to a rubber band, like if 724 00:45:21.809 --> 00:45:24.250 you have two very powerful people, you can stretch that rubber band really, 725 00:45:24.329 --> 00:45:29.530 really far, but it's going to be narrow and there's no volume inside of 726 00:45:29.570 --> 00:45:31.809 it. I mean there's no area within the yeah, with the thickness of 727 00:45:31.849 --> 00:45:34.889 the band. Is it in your control, I guess. But if you 728 00:45:35.090 --> 00:45:37.440 get five people that are strong in you and you and they have different axes 729 00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:42.039 and you stretch that same band, right, it's the same perimeter, but 730 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.119 you have a lot more value added, and I think that that's the key 731 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:49.400 here. It's like Lebron James, if you gave him a football, would 732 00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:51.869 have been a great football player, but would he have been Lebron James? 733 00:45:52.230 --> 00:45:54.550 You know, if Hendrix picked up a harmonica instead of a guitar? Right. 734 00:45:54.750 --> 00:45:59.869 And so maybe I'm really good, but what I'm really good at is 735 00:46:00.030 --> 00:46:01.789 x and I want to find someone who's really, really good at the other 736 00:46:01.909 --> 00:46:06.659 thing. And so if you realize that and put your ego and recognize that 737 00:46:06.820 --> 00:46:08.539 even though I can like that's just say, I'm an engineer, but I 738 00:46:08.659 --> 00:46:13.300 can sell. Even though I can sell, it doesn't mean there aren't much 739 00:46:13.300 --> 00:46:15.260 better sales people, and that's right. It's okay for me to not be 740 00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:20.730 the salesperson if might, if the company needs me to be the engineer right, 741 00:46:20.929 --> 00:46:24.610 and that's what's important. It's it's do not let your ego and and 742 00:46:25.010 --> 00:46:29.489 think that you're not valuable for your company because you're hiring people better than you. 743 00:46:29.730 --> 00:46:31.090 If anything, you're more valuable for your company when you do that. 744 00:46:31.809 --> 00:46:36.480 Yeah, and some founders really have a tough time when it is time to 745 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.480 bring in a team right, because they're so used to, know, in 746 00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:42.880 the companies less than ten people. They're so used to doing everything right, 747 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.320 really taking out the trash and and, you know, working on code or 748 00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.190 building a product, designing, pretty much doing everything and, you know, 749 00:46:49.590 --> 00:46:52.389 going and getting the pizza. And then when they get to forty five people, 750 00:46:52.789 --> 00:46:55.429 right, you got to start bringing in managers and people to help you 751 00:46:55.590 --> 00:47:00.590 to figure out different aspects of the business. Once the business model is form 752 00:47:00.909 --> 00:47:06.219 there's a real challenge making that transition right because they start asking what do I 753 00:47:06.260 --> 00:47:09.260 do now? It's the it's so challenging, man. You know it's because 754 00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:13.619 my brother said it best, you know. He said the people you're interviewing 755 00:47:13.699 --> 00:47:15.369 are going to be way better at interviewing for that job. And then you 756 00:47:15.409 --> 00:47:19.929 are at an interview right for that job. Yeah, that's okay. Like 757 00:47:20.610 --> 00:47:22.329 they will hustle you right into a job if they want it. Yeah, 758 00:47:22.570 --> 00:47:27.650 and so, yeah, you have to be absolutely careful. Yeah, it's 759 00:47:27.650 --> 00:47:30.920 specially exactly like that's their job, you know, it's your job the so 760 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:35.400 and exactly. So it's scary, you know, and it's hard to it's 761 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:39.159 hard to recognize that the company's beyond just one person being able to hustle their 762 00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.480 way through problems, you know, and they have to become a manager of 763 00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:45.829 problems, exactly, and I think that's where a lot of issues arise. 764 00:47:45.869 --> 00:47:50.590 Yeah, the last one we've touched on, the fish example, was a 765 00:47:50.710 --> 00:47:54.070 fascinating one. You know, start with the problem and the technology or idea 766 00:47:54.110 --> 00:47:58.469 is really where the risks are. That's the that's the fourth one. Any 767 00:47:58.550 --> 00:48:02.179 further elaboration on there. The technology or idea is rarely where the risks are. 768 00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:06.619 I think it's just a great statement. It's so true. Man, 769 00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:09.139 like it because it feels like that's all you need to do. Like I 770 00:48:09.260 --> 00:48:12.380 see a car, if I make a better car, I can sell it. 771 00:48:12.500 --> 00:48:15.409 Yeah, exactly, and that's it, man. That's just not the 772 00:48:15.489 --> 00:48:21.090 case. You know, it's hard to just tell you that because you know 773 00:48:21.409 --> 00:48:22.730 it's when you're in the mix of it. You just not going to believe 774 00:48:22.769 --> 00:48:25.409 it because again, you know, I tell people, whatever you do, 775 00:48:25.570 --> 00:48:29.119 don't fall in love with your product. You know, fall in love with 776 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:31.440 your customer, yes, problem, fall in love with the market, but 777 00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:36.639 don't fall in love with your product because you know it may not be what 778 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:39.760 the market needs. You know you'll be Zeros. You know you're just get 779 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:44.909 wiped out. So always, you know, stay really close to where the 780 00:48:45.030 --> 00:48:47.349 problem is. So that's that's great. Those are in there hard. That 781 00:48:47.550 --> 00:48:52.949 is man telling people at a might that righties in the name. It's like, 782 00:48:52.989 --> 00:49:00.860 what about is? Where's this class? So you know, we're running 783 00:49:00.860 --> 00:49:02.940 into our time. To a couple of questions, just to the entrepreneurs are 784 00:49:02.980 --> 00:49:06.900 listening to this. Maybe first time folks are out there. What would you 785 00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:10.210 say to someone who's hesitant right maybe they're sitting inside of lockeed right now or 786 00:49:10.250 --> 00:49:14.369 another big company, you know, really hesitant to take a leap into start 787 00:49:14.369 --> 00:49:16.050 up land? Or would you say that at that individual right now? I 788 00:49:16.130 --> 00:49:21.050 would say start small, spend ten minutes a day just in your calendar, 789 00:49:21.130 --> 00:49:23.400 block ten minutes and do nothing and then let that grow. But start with 790 00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.719 ten minutes and just use that ten minutes for anything that you can think of 791 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.480 that further's your start up, whether that's googling an article or googling a competition, 792 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:35.559 whatever it is, you know, doing market research. But just start 793 00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.280 with ten minutes a day and just get your feet wet. You know, 794 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:42.190 in my opinion, there's no massive switch on when you become an entrepreneur. 795 00:49:42.510 --> 00:49:45.789 You know, I think you just kind of you crank and you work and 796 00:49:46.030 --> 00:49:51.030 you have something, and you can do that while working at a large corporation 797 00:49:51.190 --> 00:49:52.980 that doesn't take up all year time, by starting small. You know, 798 00:49:53.260 --> 00:49:57.099 pick a problem. That's what I would say. Pick a problem that you 799 00:49:57.179 --> 00:50:00.260 want to solve. You know, I'm bald, fixing hair fine, you 800 00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:02.940 know that's a problem. And then you say how always I can and then 801 00:50:02.980 --> 00:50:07.019 spend ten minutes a day just looking up ways to solve it, and then 802 00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:08.769 when that gets boring, you know, just just kind of do that gain 803 00:50:08.809 --> 00:50:12.610 the momentum. You know, I love doing that. I like the idea 804 00:50:12.610 --> 00:50:15.769 you had earlier to which was you have this idea book, you know, 805 00:50:15.849 --> 00:50:17.690 as you get out head, jared all, yeah, N in there, 806 00:50:17.969 --> 00:50:22.840 and then choose one of those and and then use your your advice is to 807 00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:24.280 sort of like tease it out, you know it, tease it out a 808 00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.480 little bit every day and and see if it has legs, because entrepreneurship is 809 00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:31.719 it's a very addictive, you almost, you know, emergent thing. Right, 810 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.679 if ultimately the idea just kind of takes hold, it could turn to 811 00:50:35.750 --> 00:50:39.269 something fascinating exactly exactly, and and it is just, man, as you 812 00:50:39.389 --> 00:50:44.429 know, it is tremendously fun. Man, that sucks, it's fun, 813 00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:47.710 you know. Okay, let's question. What would you say to other founders 814 00:50:47.750 --> 00:50:52.300 and CEOS that you know have a similar background to yourself or myself, or 815 00:50:52.420 --> 00:50:55.699 immigrants have come to the country? You know, obviously you know maybe the 816 00:50:55.780 --> 00:51:00.579 pressure from your parents is to to go get a really good job and you 817 00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:06.809 know, stable here, Lison, stable evil, but we're but but at 818 00:51:06.889 --> 00:51:09.530 the same time you have this paying inside of you that says I need to 819 00:51:09.610 --> 00:51:13.369 do more, kind of like like you did, which I feel like was 820 00:51:13.409 --> 00:51:16.969 probably driven by the DNA inside you and seeing your parents doing it. Right. 821 00:51:17.090 --> 00:51:20.639 So if you have some of that and you look like us, what 822 00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:22.199 would you say to them? What advice would you get here? I would 823 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:27.039 say seek facts, right, if you're not a rich entrepreneur, you have 824 00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:29.760 a harder time raising money because you don't have the network. If you don't 825 00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:32.070 have you know, there are these facts that exist that some help you and 826 00:51:32.190 --> 00:51:37.110 some and a lot don't, and I think that if we can understand, 827 00:51:37.590 --> 00:51:42.349 I think that if you can be very realistic when you are running a company 828 00:51:42.389 --> 00:51:45.750 about what is factual and what is a guess, right, then you can 829 00:51:45.789 --> 00:51:49.820 approach a problem better. And so you know, if you know, for 830 00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:53.219 example, there's VC's out there that only go after immigrant founders, right, 831 00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:57.900 right, and so if you go to that VC and your an immigrant founder, 832 00:51:57.980 --> 00:52:01.050 you should know that their value. That right. On the flip side, 833 00:52:01.050 --> 00:52:05.250 if you go to a VC that's only ever funded people out of Stanford 834 00:52:05.289 --> 00:52:08.769 who have like prestigious background, you wasting your time, right, and so 835 00:52:08.889 --> 00:52:14.849 I think that's the that's what a big piece it's in this world of crazy 836 00:52:14.889 --> 00:52:17.840 site, like everything's going nuts with this pandemic right now, if you can 837 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:22.559 actually figure out what's the most like, what is real and what is guess 838 00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:23.960 work. And so that's like with e fish, you know, and with 839 00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:29.199 us even at Salona. It's like what's important here is proving the problem and 840 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:32.429 working on that and that's when we could pivot around the rest, and you 841 00:52:32.510 --> 00:52:37.349 know when you're approaching just about anything, from a fundraise to a sale to 842 00:52:37.750 --> 00:52:40.389 growing your team. I think if you can get very good at separating out 843 00:52:40.630 --> 00:52:45.579 what is a reality of the world that you're in versus what is your manifestation 844 00:52:45.699 --> 00:52:50.019 of that reality, what your interpretation of it is, then you can make 845 00:52:50.139 --> 00:52:53.219 much better prioritization decisions and you won't be biased as much. and to me 846 00:52:53.340 --> 00:52:57.460 I think that's the key. It's you have to be this dreamer in this 847 00:52:57.659 --> 00:53:00.369 this hoper and this person of like sees the bright side on one way, 848 00:53:00.409 --> 00:53:04.530 but you have to be extremely pragmatic, you know, on the other side. 849 00:53:05.409 --> 00:53:07.329 That's great, or did this has been great. It's always a pleasure. 850 00:53:07.690 --> 00:53:10.130 I see you back at the office. Thanks, Sean Man, pleasure 851 00:53:10.130 --> 00:53:15.239 as well. It's always fun. Thanks for listening to this episode of the 852 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:17.719 CEO Series on the BB growth show. Again, I'm John Bella's are from 853 00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:22.239 the CEO playbook. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. 854 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:25.320 The biggest misconception is that there is a hard and fast rule about when 855 00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:29.550 you know you were ready to be an entrepreneur. The truth is, when 856 00:53:29.590 --> 00:53:34.349 you have the combination of these two things, the thinking person and the doing 857 00:53:34.550 --> 00:53:37.190 person, inside you, whether you believe it or not, you are already 858 00:53:37.269 --> 00:53:43.059 in entrepreneur so don't doubt yourself. Just do what dip did and go for 859 00:53:43.179 --> 00:53:45.460 it and be ready to be addicted. You can find links to the books 860 00:53:45.500 --> 00:53:50.380 and articles we covered in the show notes. Please connect with me on Linkedin, 861 00:53:50.739 --> 00:53:54.179 on the CEO playbook page or twitter. I'm at j Bella's Air CEO. 862 00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:58.769 I'd love to hear from you. Send questions my way or recommendations. 863 00:53:59.010 --> 00:54:01.010 If you like this episode, please leave a review and share it with a 864 00:54:01.130 --> 00:54:05.050 friend and, if you have a question, join the discussion on instagram. 865 00:54:05.170 --> 00:54:09.519 We're at CEO PLAYBOOKTCO. We have a growing following there. We post inspiration 866 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:15.679 updates and new articles and more. Or visit our website, CEO playbook dotcom, 867 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:20.360 and don't forget to sign up for a popular weekly newsletter called Mental Candy. 868 00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:24.030 Until next time, keep pushing and stay healthy out there. Are you 869 00:54:24.190 --> 00:54:29.429 currently making the transition from founder to CEEO? Are you a first time CEEO 870 00:54:29.510 --> 00:54:31.590 in the middle of a huge challenge, or you just curious about what it 871 00:54:31.670 --> 00:54:37.190 takes? Then you need to read CEO Playbook. It's an online publication full 872 00:54:37.230 --> 00:54:42.219 of stories from real CEOS and practical sage advice for leaders of high growth companies. 873 00:54:42.619 --> 00:54:46.460 Go to Seeo playbookcom to start reading some amazing content for free. You'll 874 00:54:46.460 --> 00:54:50.699 find out why. Over four hundred CEOS go here to learn what it's really 875 00:54:50.739 --> 00:54:51.940 like being CEO.