#CEO 3: 3 Ways to Master Your Growth as CEO w/ Promise Phelon

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:11.789 The path of the growth warriors, all about the internal spiritual quest that being 2 00:00:11.869 --> 00:00:17.829 an entrepreneur puts us on. We're back for another episode of the CEO Series 3 00:00:18.030 --> 00:00:21.309 on the BB growth show. I'm your host, John Bella's are editor of 4 00:00:21.350 --> 00:00:26.579 the CEO Playbook and online publication full of stories from real CEOS and practical sage 5 00:00:26.579 --> 00:00:31.579 advice for founders and CEOS of high growth companies. Today we'll be talking about 6 00:00:31.699 --> 00:00:36.689 mastering yourself being a growth warrior. Throughout the series we discuss how the role 7 00:00:36.810 --> 00:00:40.369 of the CEO is not a destination, but it's a journey, and that 8 00:00:40.450 --> 00:00:44.250 journey can be a solitary one. But an unknown secret is that much of 9 00:00:44.289 --> 00:00:48.850 the journey is really about your growth personally and professionally. is about learning how 10 00:00:48.929 --> 00:00:53.320 you deal with stress, tests crises. You're constantly at war with yourself, 11 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.960 mastering that growth one day at a time. But this episode I'm joined by 12 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:02.320 a close friend and special guests, promise Philan. She has been through the 13 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:07.549 CEO Journey several times and often says to be a CEO and an entrepreneur you 14 00:01:07.709 --> 00:01:11.829 have to be a growth warrior fighting for your own professional and personal growth. 15 00:01:11.909 --> 00:01:15.950 After spending more to the decade as a Silicon Valley entrepreneur and raising millions for 16 00:01:17.069 --> 00:01:22.900 companies in the technology and SASS industries, promise founded growth warrior capital to work 17 00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:27.980 with underdog entrepreneurs to gain funding, transform markets and create profitable opportunities, while 18 00:01:29.019 --> 00:01:33.730 providing the sources and tools for them to accelerate their businesses. Prior to the 19 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:38.890 growth warrior, promise held positions as CEO of TAP influence, cro of jazz 20 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.170 hr and founder and CEO of up Mo and the Felon Group. Promise has 21 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:49.439 spoken previously at large scale events, including south by southwest inbounds Saster, and 22 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.239 she's a regular contributor to Forbes and fortune. This episode is more of a 23 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:59.079 fireside chat where we discuss her new book, the way of the growth warrior, 24 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:04.150 seven nonnegotiable skills to scale your business and uncertain times. We talked about 25 00:02:04.150 --> 00:02:07.750 serial entrepreneurship, what it means to be an underdog, how to be a 26 00:02:07.790 --> 00:02:10.550 growth warrior. We talked about how to lead during a crisis, and we 27 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.539 use her own experiences to tell the story and we talked about one thing that 28 00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:20.939 we're both passionate about, and that's anti fragility. This is also the first 29 00:02:21.020 --> 00:02:24.419 in a series of episodes, you hear, that were recorded during the coronavirus 30 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.419 pandemic. Believe it or not, I recorded this episode in New York City, 31 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:32.810 the epicenter of the pandemic, and a makeshift recording studio in my coke 32 00:02:32.889 --> 00:02:38.569 closet. Okay, let's get into it, promise. Welcome to the show. 33 00:02:39.050 --> 00:02:42.569 Thank you, John, this is exciting. Thanks for having me today. 34 00:02:43.169 --> 00:02:46.360 So we're both talking to each other, I imagine, sequestered in our 35 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:51.639 homes, shelter in place where you're in California, so you're by law you 36 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:57.360 should be sheltered in place New York, which is the epicenter of the coronavirus. 37 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:00.229 If you're listening to this, when this was recorded, you know, 38 00:03:00.310 --> 00:03:06.229 the world is fighting a very unique war pandemic, and we're all trying to 39 00:03:06.550 --> 00:03:08.189 make heads and tails of it. So it's great to have you with us. 40 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:13.500 Promise, I'd like to chat with you about, you know what CEOS, 41 00:03:13.539 --> 00:03:17.180 or dealing with it this time, your background and a host of other 42 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:20.139 topics. I think there's going to be fun and we've known each other for 43 00:03:20.219 --> 00:03:22.740 a long time, so I'm sure we're going to have a great time doing 44 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:24.780 this. But for our listeners. It'd be great if you could just tell 45 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:29.770 us a bit about yourself, your story. You know, everyone says they're 46 00:03:29.770 --> 00:03:34.610 studio entrepreneurs, but it'd be helpful to just hear from you what that means 47 00:03:34.729 --> 00:03:38.449 from your perspective and what that's been like. So how did you get here? 48 00:03:38.569 --> 00:03:39.969 What's your story? Wow, how did I get here? You know, 49 00:03:40.090 --> 00:03:44.039 I could tell that story chronologically, which is, of course, extremely 50 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:46.840 boring. I guess I'll talk about it in terms of, you know, 51 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:52.280 kind of three three major themes, career themes. Like like you, you 52 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:54.949 know, I became an entrepreneur very, very young, and so I got 53 00:03:55.150 --> 00:03:59.349 a lot of experience, you know, building my first company in College, 54 00:03:59.389 --> 00:04:01.909 selling it, going to Grad school at a really young age, and so 55 00:04:02.189 --> 00:04:05.629 the kind of consistent theme the earlier part of my career. What was the 56 00:04:05.669 --> 00:04:11.340 company? By the way, I'm always intrigued by people's first it well, 57 00:04:11.419 --> 00:04:14.139 the first one wasn't. Sexy's the first company. Share mine. I'll share 58 00:04:14.180 --> 00:04:16.420 mine too. I want to hear yours. I mean I I had at 59 00:04:16.540 --> 00:04:23.540 triple majored in college and my mother got Lupus when I was in college and 60 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:28.050 couldn't afford to pay for college. Anymore, and so I started how sitting 61 00:04:28.089 --> 00:04:31.529 and dog I dog ran and John I ran a dog running service. That 62 00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:36.610 was a survival and then I realized it's just basically not scalable and I started 63 00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:43.519 a company that was a communications firm that wrote content for physicians and did marketing, 64 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.800 and then we actually built an automation tool that would build press releases based 65 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:53.350 on data and stuff from the Internet and I sold that to my largest customer 66 00:04:53.949 --> 00:04:58.230 like the last year that I was in college and that funded me actually going 67 00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:00.509 to Grad School. But I am I'm really eager to hear what was your 68 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:04.750 first wow first in front of you saying those are boring, those are cool. 69 00:05:04.990 --> 00:05:10.540 My very first entrepreneural experience was actually in high school. I always use 70 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:15.220 that as sort of like my first entrepreneurship experience, and my high school was 71 00:05:15.259 --> 00:05:18.019 one of the few high schools in the New York City Public School system that 72 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:27.170 had a computing program interest and they had these old mainframe systems and terminals. 73 00:05:27.449 --> 00:05:31.290 So these micro computers on the desks and there's a little main mainframe computer in 74 00:05:31.329 --> 00:05:35.600 the room and you would, you know, type your program and it would 75 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:40.560 get printed on these, you know, mini printers in the mainframe room and 76 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:45.759 when the class was over you would have to store your program on a large 77 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:51.509 floppy disc and and they gave you one for free and it when it when 78 00:05:51.550 --> 00:05:54.910 it filled up, you had to sort of fend for yourself to figure out 79 00:05:54.949 --> 00:05:58.470 where to get it and because they didn't have a great supply chain, and 80 00:05:58.589 --> 00:06:00.269 so I started think game like where do they get these things and and maybe 81 00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.300 I can help solve that problem, because I looked around and I didn't see, 82 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:10.180 you know, a lot of my classmates from from Brooklyn sourcing floppy discs. 83 00:06:10.259 --> 00:06:13.819 And so I found this distributor that sold them and it just so happened 84 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:18.889 that they sold all different versions of them and different sizes, and I convinced 85 00:06:18.970 --> 00:06:25.050 my brother to go in with me on buying it. And Wow, you 86 00:06:25.129 --> 00:06:29.490 know my background. I'm Haitian American, and there's this concept of this savings 87 00:06:29.769 --> 00:06:33.199 savings account kind of microfinance. People's you know, all contribute to us what's 88 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:39.040 called a Susu, and you know, everybody gives dirty bucks or hundred bucks 89 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.800 every week or whatever, and then there's a list and it starts from the 90 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:44.079 top of the list and it goes down to each week, one person gets 91 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:46.879 it. So it's like a way to save. So we entered into one 92 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:48.750 of those. I think we'd save like five hundred bucks or something like that, 93 00:06:48.990 --> 00:06:51.709 and then I bought a pack of these things. I think I bought 94 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:56.389 a start like three hundred or something in there, and then I started selling 95 00:06:56.430 --> 00:07:00.430 them. I think the school the first disc was like two bucks and I 96 00:07:00.470 --> 00:07:05.060 started selling them for like five bucks or something like that, because I actually 97 00:07:05.139 --> 00:07:06.579 bought you know, I was like, well, yeah, why are we 98 00:07:06.620 --> 00:07:09.540 paying five bucks? First of all, do you have any other place to 99 00:07:09.579 --> 00:07:13.300 get them? And No, and number two, I actually found a distributed 100 00:07:13.339 --> 00:07:15.129 that made different colors. So it was red, yellow, green, blue, 101 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:17.970 you know, so you can get like your favorite color. That was 102 00:07:18.089 --> 00:07:21.769 my first business. You've always been a marketer. I love it. The 103 00:07:21.850 --> 00:07:27.329 pricing of package. Well, it's funny because, yeah, I think about 104 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:30.040 you know. So I wrote with this book because at the stage of my 105 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.439 life, mere early S, I got to this point where I was like, 106 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:36.319 you know, someone tells you'd ask you to tell your story, and 107 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.360 your story is evolving, but you also want to kind of put a stake 108 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:43.639 in the ground and say where have I been? How did I get here? 109 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.389 And I've been, you know, as an Africanamerican woman in tech in 110 00:07:47.509 --> 00:07:51.589 Silicon Valley. You look back at your successes, you know, selling my 111 00:07:51.670 --> 00:07:57.230 company in College, going to Grad School, getting a mentor Barbara Brittain, 112 00:07:57.389 --> 00:08:01.620 which got me connected into Silicon Valley, you know, being part of BEA's 113 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:05.300 you run up starting a couple companies, having some be very successful, you 114 00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:09.540 know, one not, and then going into a stream of like venture back 115 00:08:09.660 --> 00:08:15.610 turnarounds and sea level positions where you're raising money. You realize that you're not 116 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:20.370 actually stopping to I mean you do a great job of kind of pausing in 117 00:08:20.569 --> 00:08:22.810 asking yourself, how did I get here? But you know, and right 118 00:08:22.889 --> 00:08:26.170 in the way of the growth warrior. That was a way for me to 119 00:08:26.689 --> 00:08:28.079 look at it and if I look at it in retrospect, I think there 120 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:33.200 are three things I had. I got really lucky in relationship. Met You, 121 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:39.159 Barbara Brittain, Ivan coon, Bill Campbell, had all these relationship for 122 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.549 people were not only mentors, but they were like, Hey, I'm going 123 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:46.870 to give you a chance you actually don't deserve right now because you know, 124 00:08:46.950 --> 00:08:50.549 I can see myself in your future. So that's number one. Number two 125 00:08:50.870 --> 00:08:54.820 is, I think cereal used to be I've done a lot of things, 126 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:58.220 I have a lot of experience, but I actually think that serial and supreneur 127 00:08:58.539 --> 00:09:03.980 is someone who is a growth minded person looking for that next opportunity for growth. 128 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:09.019 Right. It's a it's a proclamation. It's not regression. It's not 129 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:11.850 looking back and saying, Oh, these are the serial things I've done, 130 00:09:11.889 --> 00:09:15.850 I've done these things in the series. It's saying you're going to always expect 131 00:09:15.889 --> 00:09:20.330 to see me doing something that is pushing my limits. So that's the second 132 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:26.399 and the third is I feel I feel that I finally have accepted and understand 133 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:33.080 my superpower, which is something that you have to give up the desire and 134 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.279 the idea of who you thought you were going to be, you know, 135 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.830 like this picture you had of yourself. And where I am now and how 136 00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:43.909 I've gotten here is actually just said, okay, I have superpowers that exists 137 00:09:43.950 --> 00:09:48.830 in a certain area, areas and they're highly nuanced, and so I'm going 138 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:54.980 to find ways in which I can use, expose and leverage those for the 139 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:58.179 benefit of myself and others. And so, in terms of how I got 140 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:00.860 here, I mean I've done a lot of what what you've done, you've 141 00:10:00.860 --> 00:10:05.379 been massively successful. I get to watch you from the sidelines since here, 142 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:11.529 but it's all about relationships. It's a proclamation for growth. And third it's 143 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:16.490 accepting that there are areas in which I would love to be phenomenal and be 144 00:10:16.610 --> 00:10:20.529 self expressed, but there are areas in which I am and I feel great 145 00:10:20.570 --> 00:10:22.759 about those things. Does that make sense? It does very much. So 146 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.679 I mean to be so grounded and have a clear understanding of your where you've 147 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.120 come from, your experience and what you're good at is part of the journey. 148 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.429 Many people are hoping to get to that point at some point. They're 149 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:41.230 just sort of taking the day by day right now. So it's very exciting. 150 00:10:41.269 --> 00:10:43.149 I should have read the book. Yeah, the night of spoiled too 151 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:48.309 much here, but I recommend everyone read it. Great Story. So I 152 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:52.100 have a question I've been asking everyone on the show. Your first time as 153 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:56.740 a CEO, like what you would call your proper like CEO. Every CEO 154 00:10:56.860 --> 00:11:01.700 sort of perceived at first time differently and when they would say the first time 155 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.490 really was. But when you, when you were CEO for the first time, 156 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.129 what would you say that was like? What was that like? HMM, 157 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:15.649 yeah, so the first time was after I met you would bea and 158 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:20.159 I went on to start a services company, which became a tech enabled services 159 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.759 company, and I realized I can remember the day. I want to say, 160 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.919 yeah, I must have been owed three and you know, we had 161 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.549 I started this company in a downturn kind of similar to what we're experiencing right 162 00:11:33.590 --> 00:11:37.309 now, and I remember someone coming to me and saying, Hey, you 163 00:11:37.389 --> 00:11:39.789 know, I want to just talk to you, and I was running a 164 00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:43.350 company, maybe they were like ten or so people, and this person said 165 00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:46.230 to me, Hey, I wanted you know that. You know I'm going 166 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:48.779 through this adoption process and and I just appreciate that, you know, you 167 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:52.379 gave me that that merit bump, because it's going to help me and my 168 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:58.820 partner get, you know, create the family of our dreams and our remember 169 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:01.809 just being like house in my s and I was like I did that, 170 00:12:01.210 --> 00:12:07.809 okay, and then realize as a CEO, that you are paying mortgages that 171 00:12:07.889 --> 00:12:11.809 are not your own, you're helping families form, like people are relying on 172 00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:18.039 you, and it creates this for me, this euphoria of like I can 173 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.360 manifest, but I think it also created a lot of like Oh, Oh 174 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:28.200 shit, like I better have my act together. People are really bad. 175 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.789 That's right, and I had a similar situation. Go ahead share. No, 176 00:12:31.950 --> 00:12:37.669 I had. I had a similar experience once as a CEO where it 177 00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:41.669 was a big all hands meeting and I come into the room and and it 178 00:12:41.750 --> 00:12:46.620 well, folks started arriving before we had the big meeting and I come out 179 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.860 of my office and everyone's in the office. We had a pretty distributed team. 180 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:52.779 Once a year would bring everybody in and everyone was was in the room 181 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.539 and in the office and wow, I was hustling, bustling and I'm like, 182 00:12:56.860 --> 00:12:58.649 holy smokes, you know, we have a we have a lot of 183 00:12:58.730 --> 00:13:03.090 people in this company, you know. And then I thought that's holy we 184 00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:07.929 have a lot of people. I did this. Yeah, Y, as 185 00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:11.370 I go, you know. So I can relate to that feeling storry, 186 00:13:11.409 --> 00:13:16.759 to interrupting, please no. But it's it's exciting because, like you, 187 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.639 you get to live in that distortion field and see something that no one else 188 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:26.990 saw before and now you've created it and it's exciting and frightening that first time. 189 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:31.750 Yeah, I would just say that the first experience of that was when 190 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:35.509 someone, you know, kind of was was helping me see the impact of 191 00:13:35.950 --> 00:13:39.029 my of my vision in their lives, not like a customer or client, 192 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:45.419 but like a real person who's going to adopt a childs and yeah, it 193 00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:48.539 was. It was beautiful and I think about that a lot. I think 194 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:54.970 it's also a very humbling because it means that the frailties that you bring into 195 00:13:56.370 --> 00:14:01.049 being a human, you actually have to work on those, because people need 196 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:05.889 consistency. Does that make you know and and actually sense? The first chapter 197 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:09.009 of the book is I was organizing this book and we can talk about how 198 00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:13.360 I put it together, but the first chapter is about managing and mastering yourself, 199 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.240 that being the number one skill of being a great entrepreneur. Because they're 200 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.679 right. Now people are out there and they're like this customer paid late, 201 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.509 you know, like they're get it's easy to get emotional and to react and 202 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:31.629 to be in that place where you feel helpless or you feel anger and you, 203 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:35.429 as a human, it's easy to react. But as an entrepreneur who's 204 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:39.620 a CEO, who's leading, you kind of got to think about the lesson 205 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:43.620 like okay, if I do this, what are the repercussion short, medium 206 00:14:43.659 --> 00:14:46.940 and long term, not only for me but for everyone around me? That's 207 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:52.019 right. Yeah, and I agree that as CEO, you you quickly realize 208 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:56.450 that everyone is looking to you and, to your earlier point, you really 209 00:14:56.490 --> 00:14:58.730 got to have yourself together, because they will continue to look to you. 210 00:14:58.809 --> 00:15:03.730 You are the example that they're looking to figure out how they should be feeling, 211 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.200 how they should be reacting to just about it, everything that's going on 212 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.799 in the business. Talk about learnings. What were some of your learnings, 213 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:16.799 perhaps from that first time, that stay with you today? Just give us 214 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:20.600 one or two perhaps that, like Oh man, from that first experience I 215 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:24.029 learned something that I'll never forget. Well, okay, so I'll answer that, 216 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:28.470 but can I ask your question? Yeah, I mean you've recently become 217 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.269 a father two babies, which is beautiful. Has It? Has that changed 218 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.620 how you think about leadership? and has it, I mean I don't know 219 00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:39.980 if you reflect on that in terms of how you show up it at work, 220 00:15:41.059 --> 00:15:43.940 but has it? Has It affected you? How has it affected you? 221 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.580 Well, it's definitely grounded me more. I feel like as a CEO, 222 00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:56.169 prior to having children, I was sort of willing to fly to the 223 00:15:56.250 --> 00:16:00.769 moon to solve any you know, solve any situation, and I have learned 224 00:16:00.929 --> 00:16:07.000 to balance that sort of you know, limitless energy with my personal life. 225 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:15.320 And the other thing that fatherhood has taught me is how similar forming, building 226 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.429 and developing a company is to raising a child. You know, to some 227 00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:22.909 extent, companies or sort of like living and breathing things. You know, 228 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:26.509 they start out very young, they're very fragile, they still have to learn 229 00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:30.070 a lot of things. It's your job to teach him those things and, 230 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:36.139 you know, as they become, you know, more mature and self sufficient, 231 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:40.100 your job is really to teach him a set of principles that they can 232 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:44.940 take with them for a long time. And I really believe companies are very 233 00:16:44.980 --> 00:16:48.330 similar to that. You know, culture is one of the tools you use 234 00:16:48.490 --> 00:16:53.129 to accomplish what I've just described, but it has changed my perspective on what 235 00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:57.129 a company is. Is Not just a bunch of people taken on a salary. 236 00:16:57.210 --> 00:17:03.240 It's it's almost like like a child that you're raising. It's interesting. 237 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.400 I'm at a business conference, I don't know, a few months ago and 238 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:14.160 Tony Robbins, who is a dope businessman and I've learned a lot from him, 239 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.230 but he talks about that. He talks about the maturation of a company. 240 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:22.109 Follows the maturation of a human and that when you you know, you 241 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:25.390 go from, like you know it, being an infant right to being an 242 00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:30.740 adolescent, to teenager and to young adults, into mature and that you're you're 243 00:17:30.859 --> 00:17:34.220 positively trying to get out of the mature state where the company becomes about maintenance 244 00:17:34.299 --> 00:17:38.380 and stability and move it back into those earlier stages in a controlled way, 245 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:44.019 right, because it's right move quickly and be agile, whereas you don't want 246 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:48.329 to go back in the adolescence because there's a lot of fragility. Yeah, 247 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:51.049 yeah, yeah, well, you know, we'll talk about it in the 248 00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:53.769 moment, but the truth is that companies, they do regrets, just like 249 00:17:53.809 --> 00:17:57.920 children regrets. You know, they do regress over time. As as the 250 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.720 businesses. You're in the markets, you're in the challenges you confront, and 251 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:07.200 that regression is the time that you know, you dig in right and to 252 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.799 sort of, you know, help it get to the next level. I 253 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.750 don't have teenagers yet, but as I understand it, that's the next major 254 00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:19.710 regression challenge that I had to deal with. Anyway, luckily, I'm not 255 00:18:19.789 --> 00:18:22.230 there yet, not yet, not. Yeah, you'll be ready, though. 256 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.509 You'll be ready. Yeah, yes, I mean I think so today. 257 00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:30.220 You know, I sold my last company and in middle of two thousand 258 00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:33.660 and eighteen it was turned around venture, venture back. We sold it with 259 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.099 Public Company and I spent I probably spent six months, and I talked to 260 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:41.180 you during that six months going what the heck, like, what am I 261 00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:45.329 going to do? And it's the best of times because you're like I get 262 00:18:45.329 --> 00:18:48.569 to plan my day today while I'm in it. I get to wake up 263 00:18:48.569 --> 00:18:51.289 and say what I'm going to do. But it's also, I think, 264 00:18:51.329 --> 00:18:52.289 a time where you kind of go, okay, how do I how do 265 00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:56.200 I continue to evolve? And so one of the things that I did, 266 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:02.759 and I think about especially now as we're in all this chaos, is I 267 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:04.240 kind of got out of myself and I said, okay, if I focus 268 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.119 on me, there's going to be suffering and like Oh, I don't have 269 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:11.470 this and why am I not running other company again? And I started to 270 00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:18.230 focus more on mentoring others and out of that this whole concept of anti fragility. 271 00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:22.869 That's I read, seemed Teleb's book again after I sold my company and 272 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:29.779 it opened up like a whole concept that I'm actually helping. So I bought 273 00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:32.140 a few companies. I started a few companies and I'm on a bunch of 274 00:19:32.180 --> 00:19:37.339 boards now and you asked me earlier what advice I'm giving my company. So 275 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:42.009 this may sound extreme, so forgive me. So one is kind of being 276 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:48.690 in the right emotional state right now, which means meditating, spending as much 277 00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:51.970 time as possible with people who you love and who love you. So let's 278 00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:56.960 put that as a as a first anchor. But afterwards, if you're running 279 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.799 an existing company that's got employees and investors and customers in cash, I think 280 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:06.720 the most important thing now is to make the hardest decision that you possibly can 281 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.789 as soon as possible. When I started the Felon Group back in two thousand 282 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.950 and two, we thought the economy had recovered and realized in early U three 283 00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:19.670 it hadn't, and so the expansion plans that we had made we're all premature 284 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:27.819 and we had one big customer kind of Bolt for economic reasons and rather than 285 00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:33.819 taking the cuts at once, we took them in small pieces. Right, 286 00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:37.569 right, and that is incredibly hard for a business. It's hard for the 287 00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:41.410 the emotions and the personality and the culture, but it's very hard for the 288 00:20:41.529 --> 00:20:45.049 individuals, the leaders, to constantly be thinking should I do it? Should 289 00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:48.130 I not do it? How should I do it? And so my advice 290 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:52.559 that I'm telling my companies now is plan for this lasting for a long time 291 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.640 and make the hardest decisions you have to make now and do them in a 292 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.279 way that just focuses on how much cash can we preserve for as long as 293 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.990 possible? And then the second thing, I think, is come out of 294 00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:11.509 it sooner. So while everyone else is trying to recover, when you see 295 00:21:11.549 --> 00:21:15.789 those signals that it's coming out, recover before other people do. And that's 296 00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:18.859 when you do acquisitions, that's when you do expansion. You sort of get 297 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:22.940 ahead of that curve. But but the last thing is love on your customers 298 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:27.099 and your people in a way that you have not before. And it doesn't 299 00:21:27.500 --> 00:21:32.890 mean like sending out emails about, you know, hand washing. Like Brune 300 00:21:33.009 --> 00:21:41.329 Brown says, trust is the accumulated stacking of vulnerabilities, like me being vulnerable, 301 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:42.450 then you, then me, then you, then meet, then you 302 00:21:42.609 --> 00:21:48.720 meet me, meet you, you, you, and in a crisis people 303 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.039 let down a lot of ego and I would say this is the best time 304 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:57.440 to talk about employee aspirations, to spend that extra twenty minutes to have a 305 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.470 discussion with your customer and say, like, how's this? How's your family 306 00:22:02.549 --> 00:22:04.349 like? What's going on, how are you feeling? Because this is the 307 00:22:04.470 --> 00:22:10.789 time when you will build a relationships that really will last, and I feel 308 00:22:10.829 --> 00:22:15.710 that we get so much into what's happening that we're not externally reaching out, 309 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:21.500 connecting, mentoring, building bridges and being as vulnerable as possible with people who 310 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:25.579 will treat us very differently on the other side of this man. I hope 311 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:27.980 those were those were const steps at hum together, but I just feel like 312 00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:34.890 right now this is a massive opportunity for all of us to grow deeply trusting 313 00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:41.410 relationships with customers, partners, investors, board members teams that we just haven't 314 00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:45.119 had the opportunity to do in the past. No, you're so right. 315 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.279 A company is more than a list of contracts in a database. Right, 316 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:53.440 it's an ecosystem, a community of people. Had tried to burn that into 317 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:57.990 people's minds all the time that you know, when they'd be like these challenging 318 00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:02.230 emails, I'd say pick up the phone. You know there's a person behind 319 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:04.589 that email. While you just ask them what they're trying to say, you 320 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:11.789 know and yeah, you know at the interpret and so in times like this 321 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:17.539 people want to communicate more and talk more and work through their issues, and 322 00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:21.660 this is the time, as you said, for the CEO to first of 323 00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:25.980 all work through their own personal issues, get get their head right and then 324 00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:30.089 be available for their employees, their customers, to going to be some hard 325 00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:36.250 conversations to be had with each individual in the company and the sponsors of the 326 00:23:36.369 --> 00:23:41.329 product that these companies right that and that's when you can come up with the 327 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:47.160 collaborative solutions to what what both sizes are challenge with. Right, everybody's going 328 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.720 to be on lockdown when it comes to liquidity and spending. Maybe you just 329 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.759 give them the product for free and say pay me when you can. You 330 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.589 know, it may be hard for you to do that because you might die 331 00:23:56.589 --> 00:24:00.750 as a company, but you might actually not die because everyone will see that 332 00:24:00.829 --> 00:24:04.990 you had pretty significant customer growth and at some point people will be able to 333 00:24:06.029 --> 00:24:10.220 pay and it could turn the entire company around. I agree with you one 334 00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:14.539 hundred percent that making those tough decisions faster. The longer you wait, the 335 00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:18.500 worst it gets. And, by the way, those decisions include and are 336 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:25.650 not limited to asking some of your longtime friends and relationships that you've developed at 337 00:24:25.690 --> 00:24:30.410 these companies to to leave the company, and those can be the most challenging 338 00:24:30.569 --> 00:24:34.769 for CEEO and probably the most gut wrenching an emotional but they're so important to 339 00:24:34.930 --> 00:24:41.799 the survival of the long term vision of the company and ultimate transformation of the 340 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.839 company beyond what's happening now. Right, and I totally I feel that. 341 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:53.470 And what's funny about all this is that stress is good for our system. 342 00:24:55.869 --> 00:25:00.549 For Yeah, like this. Yeah, the stressful times, if we do 343 00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:06.150 the right thing, will deepen and nurture and strengthen these like, I feel, 344 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:08.660 like the stresses in relationship. Someone, someone said, you know when 345 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:14.579 you're when you're thinking about building a relationship, you know, you think about 346 00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:18.220 all these incredible moments of like Oh, the honeymoon or that timing with to 347 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:22.089 Disney world, when in reality it's these moments that you really cherish. Right, 348 00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:26.210 it's coming through it together, and maybe you have, but I'll speak 349 00:25:26.250 --> 00:25:30.529 for myself. I've had to let a lot of people go in my career, 350 00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:33.490 either, you know, corporate restructuring, or we sold the company or 351 00:25:33.569 --> 00:25:37.960 we bought something or you know, it's it just corporations are organic and what 352 00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.640 I keep what I try to remember, is I have faith in this person. 353 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.440 I have faith that they understand it is, that this is a business 354 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.359 decision and I have faith in there, in our relationship, that it will 355 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.269 get better. I have faith and what I layer on is that is what 356 00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:56.509 can I do? How can I be in service? Because if you have 357 00:25:56.589 --> 00:25:59.710 to let employee go and you say look here at the papers, you know 358 00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:06.380 sign versus, this hurts me. How can I be in service of what 359 00:26:06.579 --> 00:26:10.019 is important to you, because I'd asked you the right questions and I understand. 360 00:26:10.660 --> 00:26:12.900 So I feel that this is a time where that employee will come back 361 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:17.420 and work for you in the future, because we don't remember the honeymoon, 362 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:21.250 remember, we remember the divorce, and so, yeah, if, yeah, 363 00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:23.890 that's right, have faith and trust that this is this is actually a 364 00:26:25.569 --> 00:26:30.009 relationship that doesn't live or die by the payroll. You know, let mean 365 00:26:30.089 --> 00:26:33.319 not. You have a whole crew of people that you've worked with multiple times. 366 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.880 Your theories, guys, you guys are all so together, if I 367 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.920 remember correctly, we are. We're very close friends. They're probably the closest 368 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.000 friends might these are my original cofounders. I talk a lot about them in 369 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:49.990 the articles I write in the on our website. I can resonate very much 370 00:26:51.029 --> 00:26:53.470 so with what you're talking about. And, as I said earlier, companies 371 00:26:53.509 --> 00:26:59.990 are are made of people and people are independent of those companies. Your relationship 372 00:26:59.990 --> 00:27:03.579 with those people can be lifelong relationships if you choose them to be. So 373 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:11.140 seeos or people and not just a title and they so, yeah, they're 374 00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:12.339 people too, you know. Then I just sort of like this, you 375 00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:18.289 know, title on high so and they have feelings and emotions and they want 376 00:27:18.289 --> 00:27:22.730 to have relationships, and so I've focused a lot on that. You know, 377 00:27:22.849 --> 00:27:26.849 to your point about sort of, you know, self management and self 378 00:27:26.930 --> 00:27:30.759 mastery, it's really sort of keeping that notion clear in my mind that at 379 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.079 the end of the day I'm building a company, but I'm also building a 380 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:41.000 network and a set of relationships with people that I will have for a very 381 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:47.789 long time. I still engage with former employees of mind who I asked to 382 00:27:47.789 --> 00:27:52.029 leave the companies that have run and we're still very closer together and these people 383 00:27:52.069 --> 00:27:56.549 have gone on to do very well for themselves and I still keep in touch 384 00:27:56.589 --> 00:28:00.940 with folks who are still at the company and part of whatever other firm that 385 00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:04.660 acquired the business, etc. And I talk to them not as their CEO, 386 00:28:04.819 --> 00:28:07.339 I just talk to them as John, their friend. In fact, 387 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:11.859 sometimes, even when I was in the seat, one of the things I'd 388 00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:14.569 like to do, I would do very often as I would say, Hey, 389 00:28:14.650 --> 00:28:17.049 I'm going to tell you something here, but this is not John Your 390 00:28:17.089 --> 00:28:21.849 Ceo, speaking as John Your friend total and they were surprised that I would 391 00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:22.450 say that and they say, yeah, at the end of the day we're 392 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:26.329 just all friends here, but yes, we have like professional roles that were 393 00:28:26.609 --> 00:28:30.400 we're taking right like we're you know that we're playing in the company, but 394 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.640 at the end of the day where we're people and that's what will help save 395 00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:41.119 the company. Are you currently making the transition from founder to CEEO? Are 396 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.190 you a first time CEEO in the middle of a huge challenge, or you 397 00:28:44.309 --> 00:28:48.269 just curious about what it takes? Then you need to read CEO Playbook. 398 00:28:48.509 --> 00:28:52.549 It's an online publication full of stories from real CEOS and practical sage advice for 399 00:28:52.630 --> 00:28:57.500 leaders of high growth companies. Go to Seeeo playbookcom to start reading some amazing 400 00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:02.539 content for free. You'll find out why over four hundred CEOS go here to 401 00:29:02.539 --> 00:29:07.980 learn what it's really like being CEO. Tell me a bit more. I 402 00:29:08.059 --> 00:29:11.490 mean, I really enjoyed the book. You know, there there are a 403 00:29:11.490 --> 00:29:18.130 number of skills that I think would be very, you know, very helpful 404 00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:22.410 given where we are, and I want to sort of talk about some of 405 00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:26.319 those. Let's start with with crafting the story. That's skill to I believe, 406 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.079 from your book, right, crafting your story. Wow, somorry. 407 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.720 So, you know, you talk a lot about sort of, you know, 408 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.200 crafting the warrior story. Who Are you? Who are you as a 409 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.190 person? Who Your Company is, and how do you shape that? How 410 00:29:40.230 --> 00:29:44.670 would you see that changing now and sort of these in sort of this crisis 411 00:29:44.789 --> 00:29:48.549 time? Do you sort of maintain the story or find opportunities to recraft the 412 00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:53.700 story, to reposition the company as as the world requires? Great Question. 413 00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:57.779 Yeah, and it's interesting that it's a second skill and the reason why I 414 00:29:59.420 --> 00:30:02.380 feel we all need a warrior story, which is it's a way to tell 415 00:30:02.779 --> 00:30:06.779 your story in a way that is memorable, compelling, passionate, but also 416 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:12.369 connective, because in these times we're all, you know, cocooning, we're 417 00:30:12.369 --> 00:30:15.970 all sort of having our own you know, kind of concerned about our finances, 418 00:30:17.049 --> 00:30:19.650 like everyone is having the same experience. And so rather than telling a 419 00:30:21.130 --> 00:30:23.839 resume story or a bulleted kind of list of what you've done and where you've 420 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:29.519 worked, which isn't memorable and which creates separation, right, because then I 421 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:32.119 got I didn't get a job at Google. You did. You went to 422 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.990 Harvard, you as a cornel but you know. So a warrior story is 423 00:30:36.069 --> 00:30:38.710 looking for connection. It is saying wow, you know, we're going through 424 00:30:38.710 --> 00:30:42.869 some challenging times. Here's what I'm living right now. I feel very solid 425 00:30:42.910 --> 00:30:48.430 financially personally, but I'm also mentoring a lot of early stage companies who are 426 00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:52.819 very concerned about there, about their funding situation. I've got companies going through 427 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:57.140 turnarounds, and so warrior story is a way to tell your story that builds 428 00:30:57.220 --> 00:31:00.660 connection. And the best times are when you're at war, and right now 429 00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:07.650 where at war with ourselves right managing the fact that, you know, I've 430 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.970 been in these walls and this house for two and a half, three weeks 431 00:31:12.089 --> 00:31:17.089 right. Yeah, everything's blowing up. So I can connect. So if 432 00:31:17.450 --> 00:31:22.200 the warrior story is telling your story in a way that connects people and allows 433 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.960 them to see themselves in you, and I would have absolutely say that it's 434 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:33.910 evolving right now and I think it's important that that story evolves. One of 435 00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:40.349 the companies that I mentor is in is in a really kind of interesting industry 436 00:31:40.470 --> 00:31:42.789 and it's in the network marketing space, and so they've built a really cool 437 00:31:42.910 --> 00:31:49.980 technology and they're that space is booming right now because it focuses on at home 438 00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:56.460 professionals and interesting when that CEO goes and talks to investors about it. I 439 00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:00.650 mean, I had them change your whole pitch. It's about the fact that 440 00:32:01.170 --> 00:32:07.569 a hundred percent of people are going to have side hustles and everyone's going to 441 00:32:07.609 --> 00:32:10.490 be and so the story is no longer about the technology or the market. 442 00:32:10.490 --> 00:32:16.599 It's about that one person who doesn't have six hundred dollars for an emergency, 443 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.680 which is most of our economy, most of the people out there, which 444 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.319 is why that you know, package was so big. But now that that 445 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:27.519 CEO can tell a story that we can all relate to. Oh I know 446 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.910 someone who's like that, oh I know some you know, and so that 447 00:32:30.109 --> 00:32:35.269 connection now is an emotional one, which is the only kind of connection that's 448 00:32:35.309 --> 00:32:38.190 memorable, and so the warrior story is just doing that in a way that 449 00:32:38.470 --> 00:32:43.869 is intentional, which reminds me promise you. You like an entrepreneurship to being 450 00:32:43.910 --> 00:32:47.500 a warrior that you've titled The book the Way of the warrior. Explain why? 451 00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:52.059 Where does that come from? You like a bristly fan of something like 452 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.019 that? Or I used to love I used to watch a lot of those 453 00:32:54.059 --> 00:33:00.690 movies, but I did watch you'll have to have to share my movie watching 454 00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:05.609 lest since we've been in at home, but it will surpris you. I 455 00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:08.009 would like. I would like to get that yet, but it's Um, 456 00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:14.000 it's growth warrior and and the reason why I was it's not about being a 457 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:19.839 warrior to growth warrior, which is I'm out there in battle, but my 458 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.799 focus is on my own growth. I had running my last company was a 459 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.630 turnaround. It was I told you about it. It was a challenging experience 460 00:33:27.670 --> 00:33:30.190 and I go into detail on the book about it's in the book. Yeah, 461 00:33:30.269 --> 00:33:34.190 it's in the book, and so it's going to detail about walking into 462 00:33:34.230 --> 00:33:38.269 a company that was distressed, leading a turnaround, managing culture in the way 463 00:33:38.309 --> 00:33:43.099 that I thought was best versus what was actually best for the company, driving 464 00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:45.900 a lot of growth, being massively successful in that company, selling it, 465 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:51.980 which was the goal from the beginning and you know, feeling in the end 466 00:33:52.819 --> 00:33:58.089 that it did not fill me up, it was not spiritually fulfilling and and 467 00:33:58.250 --> 00:34:00.609 there's a lot of suffering around it because, you know, I it was 468 00:34:00.730 --> 00:34:04.809 hard. I moved, I got divorced in the process. So there was 469 00:34:04.849 --> 00:34:10.840 a lot of emotion around around that experience. But on Pon reflection, that's 470 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.320 all this look, we came here to have all these experiences for the purposes 471 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:23.159 of growth. HMM, and so it became less about anything external and the 472 00:34:23.309 --> 00:34:30.710 path of the growth warrior is all about the internal spiritual quest that being an 473 00:34:30.750 --> 00:34:37.070 entrepreneur puts us on. We have chosen the most unsafe route just to Nirvana 474 00:34:37.789 --> 00:34:39.860 of any professional. If you go work in a big company, you get 475 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:44.619 a Pacheck, you get healthcare, right, right, we have to create 476 00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:47.659 these days. That's not necessarily, you know, bulletproof. It's a it's 477 00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:52.380 evolved, that it's evolved, but a growth. Your growth warrior, you 478 00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:55.130 go through every experience and what I love about you is like your pause and 479 00:34:55.289 --> 00:34:59.889 say what did I learn? What was my takeaway? Who Am I now? 480 00:35:00.369 --> 00:35:02.170 And so that's what the whole process about. Is like living for the 481 00:35:02.369 --> 00:35:08.639 growth and not for any external validation money like. It isn't about that. 482 00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:13.920 It's about the spiritual growth that comes from this. HMM. You know you're 483 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:19.039 comment about pausing and reflecting. I thought you have a great system for doing 484 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.070 that. Sometimes wanting to do it and knowing how to do it or two 485 00:35:22.110 --> 00:35:28.309 different things, and you talk a lot about how you've made almost a ritual 486 00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:30.269 out of it, right where you spend a certain amount of time, I 487 00:35:30.389 --> 00:35:32.469 believe, at the end of the day or in the morning, where you're 488 00:35:32.949 --> 00:35:37.699 talking to yourself and recording yourself. Is that right? Yeah, so three 489 00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:43.619 things. I do mourning pages and I just, you know, gratitude, 490 00:35:43.820 --> 00:35:45.900 what happened yesterday, what am my attention for this day, and it's just 491 00:35:45.980 --> 00:35:49.539 a couple of minutes. You just get it out so you able to go 492 00:35:49.659 --> 00:35:52.969 back and I have stacks, Dude. I have mourning pages for when I 493 00:35:52.090 --> 00:35:57.369 was sixteen. It is absolutely it's eve been doing it since then. Wow. 494 00:35:57.449 --> 00:36:00.489 Oh, yeah, I mean just just capturing it right. And the 495 00:36:00.610 --> 00:36:05.239 second is, especially in these trying times, when I was going through turnarounds, 496 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.440 I would just sit in the car because I wanted to exit the emotion 497 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:13.280 of the day or what I learned and just like get my voice note and 498 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:16.199 just record and and then on the weekend, if I were hiking or working 499 00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:21.710 out, I would just replay all those days. And that's actually what freed 500 00:36:21.829 --> 00:36:24.309 me and what helped write the book, is because I could go back and 501 00:36:24.389 --> 00:36:28.550 go, AH, man, I remember that day fundraising. Oh, I 502 00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:34.179 remember that, that board meeting, and it wasn't, because memory is you 503 00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:37.019 were going through those notes. That's great, through those notes and memories not 504 00:36:37.099 --> 00:36:40.699 real like memory. What we actually remember is getting revised every time we think 505 00:36:40.699 --> 00:36:44.179 about it. We go into a fight. I mean you're a tech guy, 506 00:36:44.260 --> 00:36:46.730 your technical CEO, you go into a file and you pull it out. 507 00:36:46.809 --> 00:36:52.130 You're actually changing that memory every single time neurologically. So it's actually not 508 00:36:52.329 --> 00:36:57.570 true. And so to go back and actually hear what I said on January 509 00:36:57.730 --> 00:37:01.239 thirteen of two thousand and sixteen, I go back to the closest record to 510 00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:06.440 the truth, right, and so I do that on a regular basis and 511 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.519 it's a it's a beautiful habit, but it also just keeps you honest with 512 00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:15.239 yourself. Yeah, do you find that? It's helpful also to and it's 513 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.789 kind of ten amount to something I talked a bit about which is finding time 514 00:37:19.869 --> 00:37:28.070 for solitude, just giving yourself the gift of being by yourself to just think, 515 00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:34.460 talk, you know, process learning right down and then have it recorded 516 00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:36.980 for you down the road and and as a result, you sort of come 517 00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:39.780 out refreshed and then, you know, having lots of insight. You also 518 00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:45.969 find it helpful to reducing your anxiety because you know your stuff is not sort 519 00:37:45.010 --> 00:37:49.929 of bouncing around in your head. It's now on a page and you can 520 00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:52.809 you can see it clearly in process it. So yes, all of that 521 00:37:53.090 --> 00:37:57.730 I love. I mean, I take six hours and months and I go 522 00:37:57.809 --> 00:38:00.159 away by myself and I go to a comfy shop and I ask myself three 523 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.960 questions and they change. And this is why I can't wait until you write 524 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:10.079 your book, because I'm going to be all over you. Okay, it's 525 00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:15.309 the books writing process. It's for you, it's not for you. It's 526 00:38:15.349 --> 00:38:21.030 a forcing function and I love that you write your newsletter now, because you're 527 00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:28.179 doing that, you're basically codifying all the things that you learned and stuff comes 528 00:38:28.219 --> 00:38:30.539 up. Stuff comes up. I write, I write my six bullet Sunday 529 00:38:30.659 --> 00:38:35.980 and you write your CEO Playbook, which I take credit for because I think 530 00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:40.570 we started around the same time. Yeah's you are my inspiration. I've worked 531 00:38:40.610 --> 00:38:46.690 to be that. But I think the book, I mean Seth Goden is 532 00:38:46.730 --> 00:38:50.530 a friend of mine, and I called him and I said, hand writing 533 00:38:50.570 --> 00:38:53.170 this book, and he says write it literally, as if you don't care 534 00:38:54.289 --> 00:38:59.719 who's going to read anyone reads it. Yeah, that's your words. HMM, 535 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:02.519 it's yours, and so I took that approach. It's a process of 536 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:07.760 actually going inward and saying, let me be honest here. So it's not 537 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:10.949 a memoir. I mean I thought about I'm like, I'm not that interesting. 538 00:39:12.030 --> 00:39:15.949 Like if I were, yeah, if I were like Obama or like 539 00:39:16.389 --> 00:39:21.829 right Jay Z or Chamillionaire, it would be interesting, right, yeah, 540 00:39:21.829 --> 00:39:28.699 yeah, so it's more and lessons and prescription and direction, and I mean 541 00:39:28.699 --> 00:39:30.820 I go into like have a size of a market, you know what I 542 00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:34.460 mean, like it's not a no more, but it comes from that that 543 00:39:34.659 --> 00:39:38.050 place. Right. Well, we would be really I think we would be 544 00:39:38.130 --> 00:39:40.730 remiss. Thanks for sharing that, by the way, and yes, when 545 00:39:40.769 --> 00:39:44.889 I finally decide to to write my book, you will be the first person 546 00:39:44.929 --> 00:39:47.929 I call. So we would be remiss. I think that you and I, 547 00:39:49.170 --> 00:39:52.440 if we didn't talk about what it's like being a CEO that looks like 548 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:58.559 we do, right, woman, African, American immigrants, etc. What's 549 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:01.760 your perspective on that? So listeners who are out there who are, you 550 00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:08.989 know, looking to get into the game of being CEO and are unsure about 551 00:40:08.989 --> 00:40:13.230 it or want to understand what it's like, what are some of the challenges? 552 00:40:13.590 --> 00:40:16.269 What would you say to them? So I'm an African American woman and 553 00:40:16.670 --> 00:40:22.300 I didn't go to Stanford or Harvard. I was the southern Methodist University and 554 00:40:22.659 --> 00:40:27.219 you know for Undergrad Brad's Smith, the formercy you have into it. Said, 555 00:40:27.219 --> 00:40:30.500 if you have to, if you have to have a longitudinal description of 556 00:40:30.579 --> 00:40:37.090 your university, it's probably an underdog school. Southern Methodist University. Right to 557 00:40:37.170 --> 00:40:42.130 save a DPS location and you know, yes, courts it associated. It's 558 00:40:42.130 --> 00:40:45.409 right, right, you know, right, right, just so it's a 559 00:40:45.530 --> 00:40:47.809 Harvard of Dallas. Is What is, what we like to say. You 560 00:40:47.929 --> 00:40:52.639 know what? Bill Campbell told me something, and I remember he said it's 561 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:54.519 going to be really hard for you, it's going to take you longer, 562 00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:59.360 it's going to be different. And so I have two perspectives. One is, 563 00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:05.469 if your desire for whatever it is, supersiege your fear of the rejection 564 00:41:05.550 --> 00:41:08.550 and the repetition and all the things that come with like being in the game 565 00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:13.510 and not looking like, you know, looking like a typical or traditional CEO. 566 00:41:14.110 --> 00:41:16.750 If your desire isn't greater than that fear, then don't do it. 567 00:41:17.510 --> 00:41:24.460 If your desire is lean in and crush like lean in there are some people 568 00:41:24.579 --> 00:41:30.099 have written me checks. I've grown, I've because I've gotten technical, I've 569 00:41:30.099 --> 00:41:34.170 sat with engineers, I've been part of really like I've done it all because 570 00:41:34.210 --> 00:41:38.369 my desire was greater than my fear. And so if your desires granting your 571 00:41:38.409 --> 00:41:42.489 fear, go for it. Someone's going to believe in you and see themselves 572 00:41:42.530 --> 00:41:45.889 in you and you'll get where you want to go. I think the other 573 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:51.119 thing is I feel this thing is changing. John, the last lead investor 574 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:58.079 in my last company who wrote the largest check, was a fifty something white 575 00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:05.989 male from North Carolina, HMM, and heat today is my big if he's 576 00:42:06.070 --> 00:42:09.909 my biggest champion. I talked to him yesterday. So I believe the game 577 00:42:10.230 --> 00:42:15.460 is changing because if they're the hundred billion dollars that was invested in venture capital 578 00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:17.820 in two thousand and eighteen and two thousand. Nineteen is more than that, 579 00:42:17.940 --> 00:42:23.659 but that went to mostly to people who look like you would expect. Right, 580 00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:27.699 right, so that means it. All those ideas, in all those 581 00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:32.570 concepts came with that logical that logical train of my experience and who I am. 582 00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:37.809 So imagine that this world is big and complex and doesn't look like those 583 00:42:37.889 --> 00:42:43.690 people. Right, that's the minority. Imagine if someone who has a unique 584 00:42:43.730 --> 00:42:49.039 perspective or a unique understanding of a market or a cohort or a customer comes 585 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.639 in and cracks open and opportunity. No one else is thought of like it 586 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:57.639 is the time for the person who doesn't look like a surgeon to be hired. 587 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.789 Is One. You know what I'm saying? Like it could be better, 588 00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:04.909 because we've been exploiting opportunities that are so narrow. If I see one 589 00:43:04.989 --> 00:43:10.710 more pitch for a scooter company or you know, well, you do have 590 00:43:10.829 --> 00:43:15.619 the quote, the her mentality that happens in VC. That that that sort 591 00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:20.500 of part of that game, right, that VC's right big when they bet 592 00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:23.500 against that? That's right. Yeah, so go for it, is what 593 00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:27.969 I tell it's it may take you longer, it may hurt a little bit, 594 00:43:28.809 --> 00:43:30.530 but you get you got. Get in it for the growth. Don't 595 00:43:30.530 --> 00:43:35.090 get in it for any other reason. Giving it for the growth. Yeah, 596 00:43:36.130 --> 00:43:38.369 that's assible about it. I mean, you've been massively successful. I 597 00:43:38.489 --> 00:43:42.360 remember when you were like eighteen, we bought your company. For Life is 598 00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.920 a billion bold. You sound all spiritual now. Thank you. I was 599 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:51.920 twenty eight, but yes, but you looked like twenty yets. Yeah, 600 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:55.190 I look at yes, exactly. The growth has taught me a lot, 601 00:43:55.309 --> 00:44:00.190 you know, because you're right, it has not been easy. My success 602 00:44:00.269 --> 00:44:05.110 has come with a lot of work and, you know, challenges along the 603 00:44:05.190 --> 00:44:10.780 way, all of them just making me incredibly stronger. I used to look 604 00:44:10.820 --> 00:44:15.900 at what the prototypical CEO was meant to be. You know, I was 605 00:44:15.940 --> 00:44:17.139 like, okay, no one whatever give us money because I don't look like 606 00:44:17.139 --> 00:44:22.019 that guy. You know, and you're right, there's always one person, 607 00:44:22.460 --> 00:44:27.690 one firm that will give you a chance and not every investor is for you. 608 00:44:28.289 --> 00:44:34.730 And once you get the right investor and you get the support of that 609 00:44:34.849 --> 00:44:39.559 investor, you can go infinitely, you know, from that point to your 610 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:44.559 goals and beyond, and you can keep doing it because each time you you 611 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:51.440 win, each time you lose your learning and the more you leveraged at learning 612 00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:55.349 and and understand how it's really playing a role to your growth. To your 613 00:44:55.389 --> 00:45:00.309 point, then you know that's when you're going to get the growth and that's 614 00:45:00.309 --> 00:45:01.829 when you're going to get the success happening and that's when you're going to realize 615 00:45:01.829 --> 00:45:07.420 that you can do just about anything than anybody else can do. And I 616 00:45:07.539 --> 00:45:12.260 encourage lots of young new CEOS. Did I meet now who looked like I 617 00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:16.219 looked when you first met me, and I say, Hey, you know, 618 00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:21.809 like go Campbell said, it's going to be hard, it's not easy, 619 00:45:22.289 --> 00:45:25.210 but it's that toughness, that that hard road, if you will, 620 00:45:25.690 --> 00:45:30.610 is the thing that will make you one of the best, and I encourage 621 00:45:30.690 --> 00:45:35.289 them to take on that, take on that challenge. I don't sorry, 622 00:45:35.289 --> 00:45:38.159 I was going to add it. The bill Campbell quote is is something I 623 00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:42.639 think about him all the time, and I know I think about him all 624 00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:46.440 the time, but the thing that I got from him I get also from 625 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:51.630 Brad Smith and and I just I admire him so much as a leader and 626 00:45:51.670 --> 00:45:54.349 as a human is. I guess the third thing I would say, and 627 00:45:54.590 --> 00:45:59.030 maybe you see this as well, as we can't write off the guy who 628 00:45:59.030 --> 00:46:04.940 we think is this Harvard educated venture investor or someone who holds the purse strings. 629 00:46:05.179 --> 00:46:09.659 We can't assume that they don't understand our story right and that they don't 630 00:46:09.699 --> 00:46:15.460 they're not also one underdog, because I would venture that, first of all, 631 00:46:15.579 --> 00:46:17.849 every CEO that you're going to find who's been successful as you've been successful, 632 00:46:17.849 --> 00:46:22.170 John it's going to say it wasn't easy. They may have a different 633 00:46:22.210 --> 00:46:24.969 version of difficult than you did, but there were movement and they have they 634 00:46:25.010 --> 00:46:30.889 have challenges, and that's roll when you walk into a room where you're asking 635 00:46:30.010 --> 00:46:35.039 for money, you're asking for resources or whatever. I wouldn't assume that that 636 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:38.559 person who doesn't look like you, doesn't all might not have the same shared 637 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:43.559 experience, because they often do have the same shared experiencing. If you don't 638 00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:45.519 give them the chance to prove to you that they do, then it just 639 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:49.789 never happened. So I wouldn't. I wouldn't assume that everyone else is looking 640 00:46:49.789 --> 00:46:52.269 at you as a stranger. I would assume if there are brethren and there's 641 00:46:52.309 --> 00:46:55.510 fellowship out there. Now, you're absolutely right. I mean, I've been 642 00:46:55.510 --> 00:47:00.949 reading some of the memoirs or biographies of some of these big Hetche fun guys 643 00:47:00.070 --> 00:47:04.739 and like the Raddallio Book, you'll see that. I mean he had our 644 00:47:04.820 --> 00:47:07.860 he had a hard time. His road wasn't easy. You know, it's 645 00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:10.099 easy to say that that that it was easy for him, but he I 646 00:47:10.179 --> 00:47:14.260 mean at some point he lost everything and had the borrow money from his father 647 00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:17.050 to take a flight to a consulting gig that he he really needed to pay 648 00:47:17.090 --> 00:47:22.610 his builds. Pretty pretty crazy. Everyone goes through challenges in their life, 649 00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:25.489 no matter what their background is, and so you should make any assumptions. 650 00:47:25.530 --> 00:47:29.210 I would agree with that. Man Promise, this has been great. Let 651 00:47:29.250 --> 00:47:32.760 me ask you just just one last thing about the book and which one of 652 00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:37.320 the skills that we didn't cover that you think would resonate with our listeners? 653 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:44.000 HMM. So we decided to accelerate the digital launch just in okay side of 654 00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.190 what's happening right now. But I would say the skill that people ask me 655 00:47:46.269 --> 00:47:51.070 a lot about. The two are, not surprisingly, you know, how 656 00:47:51.150 --> 00:47:53.389 to how to raise money and how to capitalize it, how to capital lies 657 00:47:53.510 --> 00:48:00.460 what they do, especially in uncertain times, and the other that I've gone 658 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:05.460 deepon is basically built to exit, which is the idea that as you are 659 00:48:05.579 --> 00:48:08.099 building your company. You're not building it's a sell it, but you're building 660 00:48:08.139 --> 00:48:12.699 it with the idea that at some point you want to understand your market, 661 00:48:12.739 --> 00:48:15.409 your players, your competitors, your partners in a way that people know that 662 00:48:15.849 --> 00:48:20.449 your company is a valued asset. And so you manage it. You manage 663 00:48:20.449 --> 00:48:22.889 it for an exit and you think about that. So those the ones that 664 00:48:23.130 --> 00:48:25.889 really I go into in the book. So, how to capitalize, I 665 00:48:27.010 --> 00:48:30.679 go through all the stages and steps, but I also talk about some really 666 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:34.920 cool stories about entrepreneurs who built to exit and actually decided not to exit. 667 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.760 And so, you know, I've sold companies. You have to. But 668 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:43.750 there's definitely selling a company versus being so attractive in the market and so well 669 00:48:43.829 --> 00:48:49.190 known and regarded that people will approach you and know you when they're looking to 670 00:48:50.190 --> 00:48:53.150 expand through, you know, kind of inorganic methods. That's right. There's 671 00:48:53.150 --> 00:48:58.539 a difference between selling and and being bought, being acquired and, yeah, 672 00:48:58.659 --> 00:49:02.500 and structuring your company and understanding how to how to see the difference between the 673 00:49:02.500 --> 00:49:07.019 two and how you execute against it. It's is very important and yeah, 674 00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:09.130 I think you'd do a great job of that in the book. Well, 675 00:49:09.210 --> 00:49:13.289 this is this has been great. Probably a good time, good point to 676 00:49:14.090 --> 00:49:16.369 bring it to an end, and I want to say thank you so much 677 00:49:16.369 --> 00:49:22.610 for taking the time and I'll see you soon. Thank you, John Tears 678 00:49:22.730 --> 00:49:28.119 by by O bay. Thanks for listening to this episode of CEO Series on 679 00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.679 B Tob Growth. Again, I'm John Belaz are from the CEO playbook. 680 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:36.320 I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Remember, entrepreneurship 681 00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:39.909 and being CEO can be a lifelong journey, one filled with many lessons, 682 00:49:40.469 --> 00:49:45.030 so take the time to grow from them, to learn more about promise Fulan 683 00:49:45.150 --> 00:49:49.349 in her book the way of the growth warrior. Visit the growth warriorcom. 684 00:49:49.710 --> 00:49:53.539 That's the growth warriorcom. Please connect with me on Linkedin. I have a 685 00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:58.940 page CEEO playbook and twitter at j belaz are, Ceeo. I'd love to 686 00:49:59.019 --> 00:50:02.260 hear from you. Send questions my way or recommendations. If you like this 687 00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:07.019 episode, please leave a review and share it with a friend and if you 688 00:50:07.099 --> 00:50:10.250 have a question, join the discussion on instagram. You'll find us at CEEO 689 00:50:10.369 --> 00:50:15.329 PLAYBOOKCOM. Thank you for tuning in and subscribing to be to be growth. 690 00:50:15.650 --> 00:50:22.519 Until next time, keep pushing and stay healthy. Out there. I hate 691 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:25.800 it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they 692 00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:30.119 do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow podcast audience. 693 00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:34.159 So here's what we decided to do. If you leave a review for 694 00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:37.150 be to be growth and apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review 695 00:50:37.269 --> 00:50:42.389 to James At sweetfish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new 696 00:50:42.429 --> 00:50:45.230 book, content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to 697 00:50:45.349 --> 00:50:49.510 know. We get a review, you get a free book. We both 698 00:50:49.590 --> win.