#CEO 2: Why Every CEO Needs a Coach w/ Bob Cramer

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:09.789 Coaches, someone who tells you what you don't want to hear, who has 2 00:00:09.869 --> 00:00:14.189 you see what you don't want to see so you can be who you've always 3 00:00:14.269 --> 00:00:19.710 known you could be. This is the CEO series on BB growth. I'm 4 00:00:19.710 --> 00:00:24.699 John Belazier, editor of the CEO Playbook and online publication full of stories from 5 00:00:24.739 --> 00:00:29.899 real CEOS and practical sage advice for founders and CEOS of high growth companies. 6 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:34.899 Today we'll be talking about CEO coaches. What is a CEO coach? Why 7 00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:39.409 would a CEO need one? What are the different types of coaches were also 8 00:00:39.490 --> 00:00:44.009 discussed. Insights from the New York Times best selling book trillion dollar coach by 9 00:00:44.130 --> 00:00:48.810 Co author Eric Schmidt. For today's episode I'm joined by a special guest, 10 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:53.960 Bob Kramer. Bob is a five time CEO turned coach. He is one 11 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:59.119 of the leading CEOS of venture backed high growth companies. He's navigated multiple startups 12 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:02.880 from series a to liquidity and knows what it's like to be in the CEO 13 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:07.989 set. He was even featured on the cover of ink magazine in Two Thousand 14 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.670 and eight as the serial CEEO. That VC's love and startups one his passion 15 00:01:11.829 --> 00:01:19.260 is empowering CEOS, especially founders, to thrive in their position while remaining balanced 16 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:23.459 and fulfilled in their personal life. Okay, let's get into it. Bob, 17 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:26.260 welcome to the show. Thanks, John. How are you today? 18 00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:30.859 Good, good, thanks for doing this. Sure this is going to be 19 00:01:30.099 --> 00:01:34.170 exciting and fun. We don't want to use up, to hope, podcast 20 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:36.769 time, but just sort of give us a tour and land us when you 21 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:41.409 when you first became a coach. You Bet I'm going to do it. 22 00:01:41.609 --> 00:01:44.650 A very long history and hopefully a short amount of time. Okay, I 23 00:01:44.769 --> 00:01:48.920 actually did like graduate at CAL Berkeley and I was lucky enough to meet be 24 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.120 in the west coast in the S, which was a great time to be 25 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.640 there. And my first startup company was actually with one of my advisor professors 26 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.109 when I was doing my graduate work at CAL Berkeley. So I did my 27 00:02:01.230 --> 00:02:06.950 first start up there and and if I was doing being doing product management at 28 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.870 the time for a database product. And then a very good friend of mine 29 00:02:09.949 --> 00:02:14.229 was doing the recruiting for a company called Oracle. At the time it was 30 00:02:14.270 --> 00:02:17.460 one little three story building on Twenty Davis Drive and Belmont California, and and 31 00:02:19.659 --> 00:02:23.580 convinced me to interview there and first few times they felt how could you go 32 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:25.580 to a competitor? But the third, third or fourth time I went there 33 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:30.289 it was just the tough flor is just filled with these intensely brilliant, driven 34 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:35.330 people who want to win, and that felt more like my kind of people. 35 00:02:36.210 --> 00:02:38.490 So I actually went there and it was a great ride. Went there 36 00:02:38.810 --> 00:02:44.129 joined when the company's about forty fifty million revenue and we took it in four 37 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:47.120 years to over a billion in revenue. So it was a fun ride to 38 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:51.719 see. So a lot of my learnings, both good and bad, were 39 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:54.560 there in terms of how do you how do you motivate? How do you 40 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:59.870 align an organized station that's growing that fast? How do you hire great people 41 00:02:59.990 --> 00:03:02.629 and keep the the caliber of the team as high as it needs to be 42 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:07.870 when you need to hire over a hundred percent of per year? How do 43 00:03:07.949 --> 00:03:12.110 you make mistakes and identify them very quickly and just take them out and move 44 00:03:12.189 --> 00:03:15.819 on? So it's just tremendous learnings when I was there anyway. So moving 45 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:19.819 on, I did my I was in the West Coast, had my first 46 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:23.539 kid and I was from from the Boston area, so moved to Boston with 47 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:27.330 my family, did a couple of startups in the software tool space, did 48 00:03:27.409 --> 00:03:32.729 the first application formans management company, did one of the first online backup companies. 49 00:03:32.889 --> 00:03:38.449 And that brings us to kind of middle of two thousands where I sort 50 00:03:38.490 --> 00:03:45.080 of stopped working and was just doing a lot of angel investing and meeting with 51 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:50.360 entrepreneurs and having lots of coffees and beers. And One person finally said to 52 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:54.000 me, you know what, I've been interviewing for a CEO coach and I've 53 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:57.550 met with a whole bunch of them, but no one gives me the kind 54 00:03:57.590 --> 00:04:00.349 of support and advice that I get from you. Would you be mine? 55 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:02.310 And John, I don't know, but you. But I was to CEEO 56 00:04:02.389 --> 00:04:04.590 five companies. I never had a CEO coach. I didn't even know what 57 00:04:04.789 --> 00:04:09.469 want it was, to be honest with you. So I said sure, 58 00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:11.780 but let me think, I get to figure what it is first. But 59 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:15.740 I started doing it then and I have not looked back. I've loved every 60 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:19.980 minute of it. What the the interesting thing about that is that, having 61 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:25.050 been a CEO five companies, you have a lot of different situations that you 62 00:04:25.089 --> 00:04:29.009 can bring to the table and understanding and a lot of empathy in terms of 63 00:04:29.129 --> 00:04:31.850 what the job entails through different stages of growth. So I brought that to 64 00:04:31.889 --> 00:04:35.730 the table. That's great. It's a great, great segue actually, and 65 00:04:35.850 --> 00:04:41.399 probably a good a good segue into the key question, which is, if 66 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.839 you're Seeo, you know, how do you know you need a coach and 67 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:46.439 what is a coach? Let's start with what is a coach? Is it 68 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.120 like the coach of a basketball team or what is? Person was asking you, 69 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:55.550 would you be my coach now that you had gone out and in Figue 70 00:04:55.550 --> 00:04:58.029 it out what it is, how would you describe what a coach is, 71 00:04:58.230 --> 00:05:02.829 what a studio coaches? Well, it starts with just being a trusted confidant. 72 00:05:02.829 --> 00:05:08.620 As you know, having been a CEO, it's one of the loneliest 73 00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:15.019 jobs that exists because when you're challenged with serious things that you have to figure 74 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.180 out, or if things you have to do as you're figuring it out. 75 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:20.139 Now we figure out it as you're figuring it out. You can't really bring 76 00:05:20.259 --> 00:05:26.529 those big question marks and insecurities to the team, you can't bring those insecurities 77 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.209 to the board and you certainly don't want to bring home to your spouse. 78 00:05:29.930 --> 00:05:33.089 So so the questions you know and you end and you don't want to just 79 00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:38.040 do too much internal thinking. So just having someone to really use as a 80 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:43.600 sounding board to bounce ideas off of, to create a safe space to explore 81 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:47.360 any problem, issue opportunity in front of you and have that person hopefully have 82 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:53.470 some degree of expertise to help you see things very, very clearly as to 83 00:05:53.509 --> 00:05:58.110 what they are, what the situation is and what possibilities exist. That's kind 84 00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:00.790 of what a coach is. It's not consultants who comes in as I have 85 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:03.189 this expertise, I'm going to look at your situation, I'm going to tell 86 00:06:03.189 --> 00:06:05.660 you exactly what to do. The coach doesn't tell someone what to do. 87 00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:14.100 A coach points out opportunities and ears for improvement and gets you to see things 88 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:18.050 more clearly and more broadly, without filters that might get in your way, 89 00:06:18.329 --> 00:06:21.730 and and then helps you figure out how to go execute on it. HMM, 90 00:06:23.170 --> 00:06:26.529 so it's not a consultant and it's not a mentor. It's almost like 91 00:06:26.610 --> 00:06:30.569 a confidante, a conciguliary of you. Really here's the a little bit of 92 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:35.000 bad this. There's certainly a lot of mentorship in there and and advisory work 93 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:41.040 in their mentors are tremendous. Advisors are tremendous. Typically, advisors are you 94 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.920 bring advisor and board because they bring a certain expertise the table that that's helpful 95 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.029 to augment what you're doing. Mentors are great when, every now and then 96 00:06:49.069 --> 00:06:51.670 the hey, let's go grab a coffee every once a month and have a 97 00:06:51.709 --> 00:06:55.509 discussion. I want to post some ideas off you. Those are great. 98 00:06:55.750 --> 00:07:00.350 Coaches tend to be a more regular thing. For instance, I meet with 99 00:07:00.589 --> 00:07:04.980 my CEOS every single week for about an hour, and that regularity enables you 100 00:07:05.060 --> 00:07:09.819 to have a certain level of understanding of the individual, the situation, the 101 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:13.699 business, the board, the products, the team, the culture. That 102 00:07:13.939 --> 00:07:18.850 familiarity gives you an opportunity to help them set forward the things that they say 103 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:23.009 they're going to do and hold them to a certain degree and hold and accountable 104 00:07:23.170 --> 00:07:27.449 to delivering that. It's a very close, important, trusted relationship that to 105 00:07:27.569 --> 00:07:30.319 be perfect. Fact I've had I known about it, I would have I 106 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:31.920 would have loved have had I when I was to see you. Yeah, 107 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:36.839 no, I I was fortunate to have have a coach in my last company. 108 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:43.519 I was looking for someone initially who could teach me about the industry that 109 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:47.709 I was going into hum and you know, this person was certainly very helpful 110 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:55.189 in that regard to but ultimately our relationship evolved to more of a coaching relationship 111 00:07:55.430 --> 00:07:59.740 and you know, he really helped me to, as you said, find 112 00:07:59.899 --> 00:08:03.180 a place to take all the things that were happening in my head right and 113 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:05.939 put it put them out, put them out in a safe place, as 114 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:09.300 likely as they may be, as ugly as they may be, right and 115 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:13.689 deal with the thorny issues that you have to deal with this as a CEO 116 00:08:13.170 --> 00:08:20.490 and it's just a valuable relationship to have with someone who is not a peer 117 00:08:20.569 --> 00:08:26.410 or not a cofounder, not a spouse or a partner, that really understands 118 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:28.079 what it's like to be in your seat and you can you can have a 119 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:33.639 real conversation with so tell us, tell us how you you approached those types 120 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.600 of conversations. How long have you been doing it for now? It's been 121 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.350 a it's full time for about ten years and part time quite a bit longer 122 00:08:41.389 --> 00:08:45.990 than that. Well, it's great. I know, John, you were 123 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.629 in a peer CEO Group, weren't you? Yes, yeah, it was, 124 00:08:48.789 --> 00:08:52.309 I was as well. I think was actually the same one at different 125 00:08:52.309 --> 00:08:58.220 times. Yeah, that also as a foundation for helping other CEOS. That 126 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:03.700 was that we got together. It was every quarter for two full days a 127 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:09.100 quarter or so, big, big commitment, typically with seven other CEO so 128 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:13.970 we had eight hundred eight eight people the table and each one bringing their toughest 129 00:09:13.009 --> 00:09:18.409 issue to the table every single time. So over the eight years I did 130 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:22.490 that there was about two hundred and fifty samplings of everything you could possibly go 131 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:30.320 through, and growing a series a company to a liquidity and having that as 132 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.600 background is pretty pretty tremendous. I'm sure you found that useful as well. 133 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.039 Right, absolutely, absolutely. And what I find is, even though I 134 00:09:37.710 --> 00:09:43.549 was fortunate to have access to that CEO Forum, that that kind of CEO 135 00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:48.509 Group, Peer Group, which I think is extremely valuable, you still need 136 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:52.460 to coach. Don't chant. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I did. 137 00:09:52.539 --> 00:09:56.740 I felt like the regularity again, back to the regularity and the trusted space, 138 00:09:56.980 --> 00:10:03.620 and I focus almost exclusively on series a and series B venture backed technology 139 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:09.409 growth companies. HMM. So in those environments, every six to twelve months 140 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:13.450 the job almost fundamentally changes and you have to change with it, you have 141 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:18.210 to grow with it. The party keeps getting raised. So the level of 142 00:10:18.330 --> 00:10:22.200 frequencies pretty important, and the other things just like the opportunity cost of not 143 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.480 knocking down a problem now as opposed to a month or two months from now. 144 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:31.519 It's just too huge when you're growing that fast. Let's talk a little 145 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.399 bit about how you approach the coaching. How do you go about coaching a 146 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.149 CEEO? What's the first step? First step is making certain there's a relationship 147 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:43.750 that works. So before we am before you enter into a coaching relationship as 148 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:48.789 a CEO, I'd encourage you to absolutely meet with a person, get a 149 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:54.100 visceral sense as to whether there's a connection there, whether you can trust this 150 00:10:54.220 --> 00:11:00.220 person, whether this person gets what you're saying. So and then, as 151 00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:05.769 a coach, the inverse, that is, is the CEO really the selfaware 152 00:11:05.809 --> 00:11:09.889 enough there the type of people want to learn and want to want to be 153 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:16.210 a substantially better than where they are right now? Are they defensive in their 154 00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:20.519 positions or they inquisitive as to wanting to understand why? So step one is 155 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.639 is their match? Are they coachable? So once you get past that, 156 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.679 my first step is doing an assessment, and that assessment often times can either 157 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.840 be a self assessment by the CEO or even a three hundred and sixty assessment 158 00:11:31.870 --> 00:11:39.110 of the CEO, board and and executive team. Against I've got ten dimensions 159 00:11:39.269 --> 00:11:43.909 of what I'll call a prototypical perfect CEO, even the one doesn't exist, 160 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:48.500 but it gives us a foundation of knowing, know where we feel we're strong, 161 00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:52.379 where we feel there are gaps in terms of areas that we need to 162 00:11:52.419 --> 00:11:56.299 be developed, and then, based on where the stage of the company and 163 00:11:56.340 --> 00:12:03.690 where we are, we codevelop a development plan for the CEO that says here's 164 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:07.330 here the primary errors we want to work on over the next six to twelve 165 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:13.289 months. That with with a clear actionable things we can be doing. So 166 00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:16.840 you do the three hundred and sixty survey, you sent out to the board, 167 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:22.480 the CEOS, direct reports, etc. And you go one level below 168 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:24.000 the management team. Are you stop at the Management Team? I stop the 169 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.720 management team and that that comes back and then you get it. You get 170 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.549 a picture of sort of potential problem areas perhaps, or it's going to be 171 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:39.470 things like some people the Board interactions relationships are outstanding and natural for them. 172 00:12:39.990 --> 00:12:45.179 Others they just have no idea what the level of communication needs to be and 173 00:12:45.299 --> 00:12:48.220 what types of things you can be talking to a word about others are really, 174 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:52.899 really, really great at defining and building a cadence of how to manage 175 00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:58.259 the company. Others just have no idea early on as to how do you 176 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.929 set long term direction? How do you provide clarity of path to get there? 177 00:13:03.049 --> 00:13:05.289 How do you build a how do you do organizational design? How do 178 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.370 you build the right team? How do you define culture that works for you? 179 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:16.600 How do you facilitate driving alignment? And I'm powerman's an accountability into the 180 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:22.720 organ deep into the organization. So it's not as if there's these people are 181 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:28.230 deficient. It's just that they maybe haven't done it before or they haven't focused 182 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:31.549 on it before, and and it and a different stages of growth the company. 183 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:35.470 Certain things are more important than others. Interesting, when would you say 184 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:39.190 a CEO knows they need a coach? Like how would you if you were 185 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:45.820 talking to a CEO and they were questioning whether they need a coach? How 186 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:48.299 would you enter the I'll ask you a different question. What supports do you 187 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:54.659 like? Golf, okay, and ball room dancing, right, okay, 188 00:13:54.019 --> 00:14:00.690 well, right, great, awesome. So both of those do you do? 189 00:14:00.769 --> 00:14:05.330 You can you imagine anyone who's top of their game, not people who 190 00:14:05.330 --> 00:14:07.610 don't know what they're doing and they need a coach, but anyone's is actually 191 00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:11.320 very, very good and wants to be better that doesn't have a coach in 192 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.759 any field whatsoever. No, non existent. Right. We can't think of 193 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.879 one exactly, and that's why I think it's so strange for people to think 194 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.389 of well, it's like it's a problem that someone needs to see coach. 195 00:14:24.429 --> 00:14:26.070 It's almost the other way around. If you're really good, you want to 196 00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:31.590 get better, and actually going going from really go to to off the charts 197 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:37.590 amazing is tough first set of steps, then being pretty bad to okay. 198 00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:41.899 Right, and and the the benefit of the people I work with, which 199 00:14:41.899 --> 00:14:46.940 I'm just I am black us to work with these these folks there. They 200 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:50.820 tend to be CEOS of series A, series B venture back companies by top 201 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:56.769 venture firms. Those folks have already vetted the market, the technology, the 202 00:14:56.850 --> 00:15:01.370 product potential and, most importantly, the the cee on the leader of the 203 00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:05.809 company. Right. So they are smart, they are driven, they have 204 00:15:05.490 --> 00:15:09.960 they know, they have a vision and it's so it's not really these aren't 205 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:11.759 really deficiencies. These suggest skills. That for the skills that need to be 206 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.559 developed based on where the company is and what they have to achieve it. 207 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.879 And so to play that back, everyone needs to see OK, everyone needs 208 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:26.549 need to see her, but I will if you seeo that wants to be 209 00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:30.269 better. Right, if you if you are focused on mastery, yeah, 210 00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:33.070 coaching is the way to get there, right. I mean you look at 211 00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:35.700 any sport. I think it's a better way to say that. Absolutely. 212 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:39.419 I mean, if you are if you are CEO and you are very happy 213 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.779 with your business and you're growing five percent a year and you get a certain 214 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.539 level of attrition, you just hired a full up backfill Ed attrition and and 215 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:52.730 you're happy. Maybe you don't need one because you're you're quite complacent. But 216 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:56.769 I don't know any CEO. I don't know any CEO if that's complacent. 217 00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.929 Every CEO that I know they are driving for a hundred percent growth next year 218 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:04.320 and and to transform the world in a market in a significant way. And 219 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.639 those people are ripe for for for having someone to really help them out. 220 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.559 When you're coaching, what would you say you trying to do exactly, I 221 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.909 understand. You do the assessment, then you then you start getting to work, 222 00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:22.909 because you see, you see opportunities, but what are you ultimately trying 223 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:26.950 to get to with the athlete? If you will write. So can I 224 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:32.429 kind of back up and just talk about there's almost almost two types of coaching 225 00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:34.980 that I do. It's all right, okay, sure. So, when 226 00:16:36.019 --> 00:16:37.980 I started out, I started coaching, I would do what I would call 227 00:16:38.139 --> 00:16:42.259 mostly situational coaching, meaning we're doing assessment of kind of where we want to 228 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:47.330 develop and where's the business and what do we have to accomplish? But then 229 00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:51.049 it was almost on a weektweek basis. What's working and what's not working right 230 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:55.570 either. Something that happened. They didn't go the way that you'd particularly wanted 231 00:16:55.730 --> 00:16:59.129 to go. So we can kind of tear it apart, take a look 232 00:16:59.169 --> 00:17:02.399 at us and say, you know what, why did it go that way? 233 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.880 How could it have gone differently and how might we do it differently? 234 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:11.000 Is a very good place to learn kind of situationally, seeing the play, 235 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.200 where you were positioned, how you played it out and what would have been 236 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.029 done differently, and that works. Looking backwards, enurves past also works in 237 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:22.430 terms of situationally. Looking forward, I've got this major event or opportunity or 238 00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:26.829 problem in front of me and helping think through it. And again, that's 239 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:30.380 situational basis of all the things that you know that you might do and how 240 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:33.380 you might do it. But every now and then, a any individual, 241 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:40.099 is going to be constrained in terms of how they see the world and how 242 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.220 they see the facts in front of them. And it's just the reality of 243 00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:48.049 all of us have come to come to the world with our own histories, 244 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:56.130 histories, biases, traumas, cultural upbringings and and perspectives and all those things 245 00:17:56.170 --> 00:18:00.720 over time put filters on how we see things, right, and those filters 246 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.799 do to things. Sometimes they blind us from facts, and so one of 247 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:07.640 the most important things as a coach you can do is make clear, make 248 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:12.150 certain that you're seeing the facts clearly. Right. The other thing that that 249 00:18:12.230 --> 00:18:15.630 it does, even more so than blind you from facts often times, is 250 00:18:17.230 --> 00:18:22.109 it has you build a story around those very few facts. That is just 251 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:23.630 a story, right, and so you know, here's, here's the three 252 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:27.220 facts and here's the seventeen other components and throwing into it to create a story 253 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.740 around it, which makes me think that I we need to do a and 254 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:36.099 if you can help tear that back a little bit and help that person see. 255 00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:38.460 Well now the facts for really here. That story is valid and you 256 00:18:38.500 --> 00:18:42.250 know there's probably three or her other valid stories on those same facts. That 257 00:18:42.450 --> 00:18:49.369 open up whole new possibilities and those new possibilities allow you to to to do 258 00:18:49.569 --> 00:18:55.960 really amazing great things. So part of the everyday workings is is helping them 259 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:02.400 see things more clearly, identify opportunities that they may not see otherwise in terms 260 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.799 of proaches and then help them with with how to go execute on that. 261 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.789 So that's that's what I'll call transformational coaching. There's there's situational coaching and then 262 00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:17.990 this is transformational. The transformation is what, in your history is getting in 263 00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:19.950 your way of seeing things the way you need to see them or opening up 264 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:25.259 your mind to new opportunities. How do we get past that? And then 265 00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:27.779 what new opportunities does that are? Does it bring to the table, and 266 00:19:27.859 --> 00:19:32.740 then how do we go leverage and executing those? So that's kind of this 267 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:37.769 observational in terms of inconsistencies, there's the really probing as a coach with very 268 00:19:37.849 --> 00:19:44.450 powerful questions that surface things and then and then the other skill is pretty critical 269 00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:49.569 for a coach is being fully present and listening very pro actively. HMM. 270 00:19:51.210 --> 00:19:53.519 So, if you if you relate this to sort of coaching, coaching and 271 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.839 athlete, there's for sport, there's there's two coaching. It's focus on technique 272 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.319 and you got to do a thousand you got to practice a thousand free throws 273 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.430 and yeah, Yeahs, you got to focus a redpotation and being upstanding, 274 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:10.750 a repetition to be an outstanding. So, you know, bring it back 275 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:14.869 to business, it's the CEO Habits to structure the processes. That sort of 276 00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:18.230 the one on ones. The executive meaning is the company meaning the the the 277 00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:21.859 quarterly plannings? Right, yes, exactly one. See, your former was 278 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:26.019 part of we call it the operating Systema get him to master that being a 279 00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:30.019 good manager. But then there's two. Transformational coaching, which is really about 280 00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:36.289 the individual, the person who is in the CEO S and getting them, 281 00:20:36.690 --> 00:20:40.410 preventing them from but it seems like getting in their own way getting it, 282 00:20:41.089 --> 00:20:41.970 letting their head get on there, on the way. And we've been and 283 00:20:42.009 --> 00:20:45.930 it's funny and when you do think of like the very, very top athletes. 284 00:20:45.970 --> 00:20:51.200 Yeah, what normally gets in the way is not the operational execution of 285 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.359 the swing, it's what's in their head. It's right, something throwing them 286 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:57.240 off right. It's in their head pulling them, pulling them back at it. 287 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:03.200 You got it. Over overthinking something we're thinking. It's not directly related, 288 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.750 but it's very analogous. Yes, HMM, and so that. So 289 00:21:06.910 --> 00:21:11.269 the CEO coach becomes the becomes the other voice, not in your head but 290 00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:14.710 in front of you, that saying, Hey, you're overthinking this or yeah, 291 00:21:14.789 --> 00:21:17.710 or this is this, is you getting in your own way again, 292 00:21:18.069 --> 00:21:23.579 and that realization can then help to Ceeo should transform, if you will, 293 00:21:23.619 --> 00:21:29.339 and see opportunities differently. Absolutely, it's not. Of Fact, I remember 294 00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:33.210 Coaching early in my coaching here. I remember coaching people and I have these 295 00:21:33.289 --> 00:21:36.970 really brilliant CEOS. Know exactly what they needed to do. HM, and 296 00:21:37.049 --> 00:21:38.369 they wouldn't do it, and then they wouldn't do it and it so kind 297 00:21:38.369 --> 00:21:41.490 of Miss I'm missing something here. What's going on? All right, right, 298 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:45.369 right, yeah, and right. Literally went back to school in my 299 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:51.640 old adeer I went to I studied with US Guy Names Julio Alalah, who 300 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:56.880 was older Colorado, who was was one of the very first people in the 301 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:02.549 life coaching field, and lots of touchy Feeley stuff, but it was pretty 302 00:22:02.549 --> 00:22:06.710 amazing in terms of augmenting augmenting what I had in terms of skill setting and 303 00:22:06.869 --> 00:22:10.309 kind of having a few more tools in the tool box. I see, 304 00:22:10.710 --> 00:22:14.630 because you were seeing a mismatch between their ability and what they actually did. 305 00:22:15.190 --> 00:22:18.299 So that you said there was a blocker there, there's there's something, there 306 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:21.819 was some blocker that had nothing to do with them knowing exactly what they needed 307 00:22:21.859 --> 00:22:25.779 to do exactly. Yep. So interesting. Yeah, I wonder how many 308 00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:30.490 CEOS realize that? It's true, right, that that self realization can be 309 00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:33.250 very challenging, where you know exactly what to do but for some reason you're 310 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:38.089 not doing it in a some kind of the way. You know and you 311 00:22:38.210 --> 00:22:41.490 know the feeling. I know that. You've been there. You know the 312 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:44.359 yeah, I know the feeling. Right. I've been there so many times. 313 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:49.720 It's taken me years to realize and through the process of being coach, 314 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.279 to realize what was going on. Right now in your practice, do you 315 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:57.119 do you get involved with the rest of the of the executive team as well, 316 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:00.829 because, let's say the studio knows what to do, but then he's 317 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:04.589 got a translator. He or she has to then get the rest of the 318 00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:10.549 team to execute right and those individuals may have their own challenges that are that 319 00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:15.259 are both situational and transformation. Right, right, right. So my primary 320 00:23:15.339 --> 00:23:19.420 focus is on the CEO. HMM, all right, and in if I'm 321 00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:22.819 jumping in because the CEO is not capable of doing something, I'm not doing 322 00:23:22.940 --> 00:23:27.609 that him or her service right. First, help them do it. But 323 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:32.130 the areas that I do get involved in is that we're talking about kind of 324 00:23:32.170 --> 00:23:37.809 kind of foundational components. If you're early on, actual early on just a 325 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:45.799 throat company's life cycle, defining the long term mission and vision and understanding kind 326 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.480 of the market dynamics and the core strate the key strategy is going to enable 327 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.720 you to get there and then driving that into kind of the corporate goals. 328 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:57.069 That process involves the entire team, usually the high level mission vision from the 329 00:23:57.069 --> 00:24:00.470 CEO, but the rest of it is involves the executive team. So I 330 00:24:00.950 --> 00:24:07.950 get involved usually by facilitating the annual, typically today, executive team off site 331 00:24:08.269 --> 00:24:12.339 that refuse kind of strategy and where we're going and how we're going to get 332 00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:17.460 there and how do we drive those into into very miserable things. We have 333 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:19.980 to do this here so I can involved with the team that way. Also 334 00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:23.410 by doing that also get to know the individuals. So and when I talked 335 00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:27.410 to the CEO, I have a different vantage point and understanding the team, 336 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:33.049 the team dynamics, and occasionally there's especially with earlier stage companies, are oftentimes 337 00:24:33.089 --> 00:24:38.400 co founders. One of the CO founders tends to elevate to a CEO and 338 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.680 then there's one or two others sometimes, and the founder dynamics are interesting. 339 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:48.920 So many times I might coach the CEO and a Co founder or the CEO 340 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:53.589 and a couple of key executives on the team that either needs some assistance or 341 00:24:53.710 --> 00:24:59.549 just kind of like make up the real brain trust of the tighter leadership team. 342 00:24:59.589 --> 00:25:03.349 Are you currently making the transition from founder to CEEO? Are you a 343 00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:07.940 first time CEO in the middle of a huge challenge, or you just curious 344 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:11.859 about what it takes? Then you need to read CEO Playbook. It's an 345 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:17.059 online publication full of stories from real CEOS and practical sage advice for leaders of 346 00:25:17.099 --> 00:25:21.529 high growth companies. Go to CEEO PLAYBOOK DOT COM to start reading some amazing 347 00:25:21.690 --> 00:25:25.529 content for free. You'll find out why over four hundred CEOS go here to 348 00:25:25.569 --> 00:25:32.529 learn what it's really like being CEO. But the reason I ask the question 349 00:25:32.690 --> 00:25:36.839 is in my experience, each of the management team members is kind of like 350 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:41.680 a mini CEO of their functional air. Yes, and to some extent, 351 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:45.279 maybe I should phrase this as a question. Do you believe the CEO is 352 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:51.430 also the the role of the CEO is also to be a coach to the 353 00:25:51.549 --> 00:25:55.829 Management Team members? And, if so, do you spend time teaching them 354 00:25:55.950 --> 00:25:59.869 how to be coaches or do you find that unnecessary? Absolutely. Look, 355 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:03.390 John, what do you think on this one? Just curious. I think 356 00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:07.940 absolutely. I think that's one of the skills, at least in my experiences 357 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:15.220 CEO, is that over time, what you're trying to become really good at 358 00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:21.650 is helping people develop mastery right in their all roles. You're mastering yourself and 359 00:26:21.730 --> 00:26:25.130 your role being in the CEO, see, but all those little minute mini 360 00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:30.569 CEOS out there also have to develop mastery and and and serving as their coach 361 00:26:30.730 --> 00:26:34.000 and confidant is a very or powerful position, very challenging to sort of, 362 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:38.079 you know, differentiate between your executive role, like Hey, I'm telling you 363 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.000 to do this, to hey, actually, I don't want to tell you 364 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.279 to do anything. I just want to ask you a few questions to help 365 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.670 you think about this. That's what I've been learning. Yeah, my sense 366 00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:53.190 is that managing, managing anyone, whether it be at an executive level or 367 00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:59.150 even any any tear, is shifting more and more to coaching. It's less 368 00:26:59.150 --> 00:27:03.980 less directive and more what are we trying to achieve, and then not even 369 00:27:03.099 --> 00:27:07.059 and not being at all prescriptive in terms of how to achieve it, but 370 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:11.500 really helping them define the path to achieve it and then helping them support them 371 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:15.450 to make that happen. So I think overall, the whole management function is 372 00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:22.329 shifting more and more towards incorporating coaching concepts in their weekly one of once is 373 00:27:22.410 --> 00:27:27.170 that what's becoming known as servant leadership, and sure, concepts like that, 374 00:27:27.289 --> 00:27:32.880 I would imagine. Sure, don't don't mistake being a servant leader as not 375 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.880 being a strong leader. Also, right, right, that's all. It's 376 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.720 a strange thing. It's kind of like, yeah, they'll let you hold 377 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:41.839 onto it, the the the tight, you know, the tit of the 378 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:47.269 grip you have on a sort of right. Yeah, yeah, it's the 379 00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:52.349 best leaders or ones that are are controlling, but are the energy and enthusiasm 380 00:27:52.589 --> 00:27:57.619 and support and caring of the team right really pulls it together. It's great. 381 00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:02.420 Are All seas coachable? You said You you do a man a match 382 00:28:02.539 --> 00:28:06.420 test first. Is that? Is that about testing for coachability? That that's 383 00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:11.500 for me it's testing for coachability and for them it's it's testing for alignment with 384 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:18.289 you. And and the answers no, no, the see O sor right. 385 00:28:19.609 --> 00:28:23.769 Right. And what would you say? Would you say the the transformational 386 00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:26.240 aspect kind of, you know, getting out of your own way? Is 387 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:30.359 is a number one thing CEEO struggle with in their and their journey to mastery? 388 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.960 Or is there are there's? Is there more? I think it's very 389 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:40.200 it's it's so individualistic. Some things that are so easy to some people are 390 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.670 so hard with others. For instance, I have I've got this one CEO 391 00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:48.869 that I just I've been working with him since the company's really small and and 392 00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:53.950 he is outstanding. I mean not not, not good, he's outstanding, 393 00:28:55.349 --> 00:29:00.019 top one percent of one percent right. And yet again, clearly can't see 394 00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:08.539 who this is. But his history and upbringing and relationships make it really, 395 00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:15.369 really hard for him to accept praise and therefore to give praise. So imagine 396 00:29:15.410 --> 00:29:18.730 being one of the top CEOS and having a hard time recognizing people for doing 397 00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:22.809 really good stuff. Right. So now, by the way, he's outstanding 398 00:29:22.849 --> 00:29:27.160 and he has fixed that and he's let's a learned behavior. That's uncomfortable for 399 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:33.599 him, right, yeah, but it's a critical one and he's good enough 400 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.079 to have perfected it, but as a learned behavior and not a national one. 401 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.430 So it's hearts. So there's no one thing. It's every person brings 402 00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:45.509 something different to the table that that needs that they need help with. They 403 00:29:45.589 --> 00:29:48.990 need to Larady to your right, to earlier point. Every everyone is wire 404 00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.380 differently. They have different backgrounds, culture, etc. Right, and so 405 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:56.779 therefore their opportunities, as you put it, are going to be different. 406 00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:03.380 Right. What's the one thing that surprises you about CEOS? They're both extremely 407 00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:10.009 confident and extremely insecure. It's just a very interesting balance. Many times have 408 00:30:10.089 --> 00:30:12.289 you encountered imposter syndrome? A Lot, and yeah, that's pretty much. 409 00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:17.490 That's pretty much we're talking about here. Absolutely. Is it consistently present or 410 00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:22.920 just stages of development of a CEO? Like our first timers were imposter. 411 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.920 Have more imposter syndrome or more experienced people have weren't pose a syndrome. I 412 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:33.079 honestly I think it is. Every step of growth. People I work with 413 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.589 are growing their companies typically a hundred percent a year. Their individual contributors going 414 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:41.950 to managers, their managers going to kind of manager of managers they are to 415 00:30:41.109 --> 00:30:45.670 eventually lead to eventually sit at the helm and kind of guide the ship, 416 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:49.819 and every step of the way the job is changing and every time the job 417 00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:56.380 changes in a big way it causes one to ask questions about things. So 418 00:30:56.500 --> 00:31:00.660 again, I don't think it's overly significant. I think it exists, but 419 00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:03.140 I do think it exists in pretty much everyone. And how do you how 420 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.009 do you help your CEOS work through that? Again, I don't think it's 421 00:31:07.009 --> 00:31:10.529 overpowering in any way. I think it's just literally, almost just having I 422 00:31:10.609 --> 00:31:11.930 don't even think you have to be a great CEO coach. I think you 423 00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:18.799 can just be a really great trusted listener and let them talk it out to 424 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.440 the point where they realize, you know, I got this, because they 425 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:26.440 do, they really do. Usually you feel that way because you're you sometimes 426 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.519 get to the point of feeling overwhelmed because I haven't done this before, I 427 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.549 don't know the situation before. But once you just sit back, relax a 428 00:31:33.589 --> 00:31:36.269 little bit, think through who logically, what you need to do, what 429 00:31:36.390 --> 00:31:38.549 the options are and which option makes more sense and how to go exicona, 430 00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:44.230 you're ready to go again. Got It. That's that's great. That's it 431 00:31:44.390 --> 00:31:47.500 is so true, though, that it's something you have to work through and 432 00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:52.900 sometimes you have to be reminded of your abilities by an External Party. Right 433 00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:56.779 as again, again, those voices in your head. Sometimes just as simple 434 00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:59.700 as that. You know, you just as simple as you got this one. 435 00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:01.490 Yeah, that's it, I do, I do. Yeah, you're 436 00:32:01.529 --> 00:32:06.970 right, I do, I got it exactly. Sometimes as simple as that. 437 00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:09.849 Or they're dousing. Don't in coaching, right. So one of them 438 00:32:10.009 --> 00:32:15.369 is not to coach in a fashion that basically as you has. You're all 439 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:19.720 into business and yeah, affecting effectively, do in the CEO's job. Or 440 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:23.200 there's some others dos and don't you know, it's like a doctor relationship and 441 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:29.440 for if you to try, nothing ever goes anywhere else. Nothing ever. 442 00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.549 You have to I mean there's their boundaries on a personal level, but not, 443 00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:37.230 you know, to be a perfectly frank, I mean it's just you're 444 00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:43.390 building this trust your relationship. You're there fully to support them in any which 445 00:32:43.390 --> 00:32:45.660 way they need it and, by the way, and that oftentimes there's both 446 00:32:46.099 --> 00:32:51.619 on a business level and a personal level. These are whole people. Sometimes 447 00:32:51.740 --> 00:32:54.980 the personal side is more impactful on the business than the business side. So 448 00:32:55.259 --> 00:33:00.490 I guess so, if this very little, it's off the table outside of 449 00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:07.490 maintaining confidentiality and and make sure that that that boundaries that should be there don't 450 00:33:07.529 --> 00:33:13.160 get crossed. And if you were to, this is kind of a part 451 00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.000 of the conversation where it kind of give you, give you the stage, 452 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.039 if you will, if there was something you wanted to tell those CEOS out 453 00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:22.680 there who, number one, did realize what a coach is and whether they 454 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.680 need one or not. But maybe you're just getting in the role or they're 455 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.589 sitting in their seat right now listening to this. What are some things you'd 456 00:33:30.630 --> 00:33:36.150 want to say to them? One is everyone looks to you, especially if 457 00:33:36.190 --> 00:33:38.309 you worked away up the ranks and this is a relatively new role for you. 458 00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:42.740 Other people scream and yell and try to get a point across. You 459 00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:47.819 whisper a subtle idea on the side and it becomes directive. Oh Man. 460 00:33:51.380 --> 00:33:54.380 So that's agree and that's in terms of that's in terms of focus on the 461 00:33:54.460 --> 00:33:59.930 business, that's in terms of cultural impact. You want us, you say. 462 00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:00.730 Well, I just want to be myself and say whatever I want to 463 00:34:00.730 --> 00:34:02.609 say. And the answers. Yes, be yourself, say what you want 464 00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:07.170 to say, but be aware that what you say and how you say it 465 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.840 is going to have a ripple implications everywhere. And that's not a problem. 466 00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:16.440 That's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to really lead and really excite and motivate 467 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:21.719 folks. The other thing is, I'd say, is you and your company 468 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.469 as good as the team around you, build an unbelievable team. Makes sure 469 00:34:25.590 --> 00:34:30.230 that team dynamic works. And team dynamic works is not you're just old buddies, 470 00:34:30.829 --> 00:34:34.550 it's you've got the right amount of diversity, the right amount of comfort 471 00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:37.469 challenging one another, the right there, but always with a deep respect. 472 00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:43.059 So kind of cultural developments, building the right team. I'd say that, 473 00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:47.980 if you don't have it, be crystal clear about your vision and your mission 474 00:34:49.059 --> 00:34:52.250 for the business and how you're going to get there, such that people can 475 00:34:52.530 --> 00:34:58.809 act relatively autonomously and still run fast towards the goal you're trying to get to 476 00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:02.690 those, the kind of the big ones. Maybe that's great. Those three 477 00:35:04.289 --> 00:35:08.360 we're fantastic. I would say take time away from the business. It's really 478 00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:15.880 important to not stay in the business for too long without stepping out of it 479 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:20.519 and going to a place where it's quiet and just be along with your thoughts, 480 00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:22.429 or go to a place like we were talking about our form, where 481 00:35:22.429 --> 00:35:28.389 there're other CEOS that you can you can really sort of learn from, because 482 00:35:28.429 --> 00:35:32.190 when you come back your perspective is so different and that first perspective is so 483 00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:37.739 important to doing well in the role. I think that that's one to consider 484 00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:40.739 for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, and then, you know, I would 485 00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:46.099 say get a coach as soon as you can, because then you have someone 486 00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:52.769 that can tell you the things that no one tells you about the role and 487 00:35:52.929 --> 00:35:57.329 helps you through those transitions that are availably going to happen to you in the 488 00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:00.210 role. And when thinking about a coach, that again, lots of people 489 00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:05.360 are for a lot of trends coaches out there. I guess they're probably opposite 490 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.360 as well. Find some of that works for you and realize that there are 491 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.719 two primary dimensions. One is someone who can help, who's kind of seen 492 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:19.829 what you're going through and can help you kind of identify things before you brick 493 00:36:19.869 --> 00:36:22.829 walls, before you hit them. So having some level of competence in terms 494 00:36:22.829 --> 00:36:27.150 of knowing what the job entails would be good. And then the other elements 495 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:30.230 have someone who really you can connect with, empathetic and understanding, because it's, 496 00:36:31.030 --> 00:36:34.739 as I said, it's lonely and you need someone to really that you 497 00:36:34.820 --> 00:36:37.500 can really open up to. So we both read trillion dolla coach. I 498 00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:42.460 asked dry. Enjoyed the book. A lot of the questions I asked. 499 00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:47.130 You were around sort of asking about your style and, to some extent, 500 00:36:47.570 --> 00:36:52.489 comparing it to to Bill Campbell. You know. So for those of you 501 00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:57.849 who are listening, Bill Campbell is probably one of the, you know, 502 00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:01.039 best coaches that has been around. You've never heard of no one's. I've 503 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.079 heard of Bill Campbell. Funny thing he would he started out as a proper 504 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:10.119 sports coach, coaching in college, started his career at a Kodak and then 505 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.360 moved out to Silicon Valley, started working for apple, moved on to go 506 00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:19.829 computer, which didn't go if you read the book you'll you'll get that, 507 00:37:20.349 --> 00:37:24.710 and then eventually became the Ceeo of into it right and then from there started 508 00:37:24.789 --> 00:37:30.260 coaching. So sort of a similar it's a similar traject trajectory to you. 509 00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:34.059 Where you start as a business person. You know, went to some great 510 00:37:34.059 --> 00:37:38.139 organizations, just experience a lot and grew a lot and took that wealth of 511 00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:45.769 experience and gave back right and started really coaching with some fantastic CEOS. He 512 00:37:45.849 --> 00:37:49.769 has coached Eric Schmidt, he's coached, you know, to the fountains at 513 00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:52.530 Google. He spoke, he's coach been her wood's, he's coached, I 514 00:37:52.610 --> 00:37:58.760 think, a ton of people that you can't even imagine. And so the 515 00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:02.360 book was really for me just experiencing a couple of things, just what a 516 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:08.599 coach is like and some of the challenges that he experienced coaching and helping managers 517 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:13.550 through those challenges. He starts with people. I mean it's all about caring 518 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:17.750 deeply, but individuals and people and making and making Servius and their successful and 519 00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:23.230 that they're they're wellbeing a solid he talks about only coaching the coachable. You 520 00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:28.780 know, people have very selfaware or why bother? Why Great? So truely 521 00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:32.380 talks about, I love this one, guiding people to make the best decision 522 00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:38.460 for them not the best decision because everyone is everyone different and the decision is 523 00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:42.570 not there's no such things the best decision. It's like where you are in 524 00:38:42.650 --> 00:38:45.289 your life, what you're doing and what your situation isn't getting that he want 525 00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:49.130 not to talk about. If you don't have the basics right, forget it. 526 00:38:49.489 --> 00:38:52.409 So that's the operational cadence, the one on one, the the employee 527 00:38:52.650 --> 00:38:57.119 back the team, you know, team meetings, company meetings, lots stuff. 528 00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:59.960 Yeah, I love that part of the book because he he refers to 529 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.880 Steve Jobs, who didn't who didn't like there was considered one of the best 530 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:09.070 leaders ever and Steve had to go through pain right to learn the importance of 531 00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:14.070 yeah, the importance of the basics right, and then he came back into 532 00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:19.269 resort organization with that foundation right heaven, having worked with bill, and it 533 00:39:19.349 --> 00:39:22.869 completely changed the way he approached and probably set the foundation for for Apple Success 534 00:39:23.659 --> 00:39:29.340 on his return. Absolutely. Yeah, another thing I liked about touch a 535 00:39:29.380 --> 00:39:36.860 lot about vulnerability and the importance of being vulnerable as a CEO. The foundational 536 00:39:36.940 --> 00:39:42.610 component of a great team is starts with trust. One of the ways to 537 00:39:42.849 --> 00:39:47.769 really make trust happen is is to create vulnerability, but because when you breakdown, 538 00:39:47.769 --> 00:39:52.690 you work down your walls and you become vulnerable, others naturally will break 539 00:39:52.690 --> 00:39:55.199 down their walls and then all of a sudden you have you open dialog and 540 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.840 communication, a real communication between people. So I think it's that's a great 541 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.360 observation, John. Yeah, that's that's one of my that's one of the 542 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:07.079 ones I take away again, another quote. It's from it's from a football 543 00:40:07.150 --> 00:40:09.510 coach. Okay, this is a this is probably Andry, who who was 544 00:40:09.550 --> 00:40:13.909 the coach of the Dallas cowboys in the S and S, I think, 545 00:40:13.909 --> 00:40:17.550 over twenty nine years. And it's a coach is someone who tells you what 546 00:40:17.710 --> 00:40:22.659 you don't want to hear, who has you see what you don't want to 547 00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:27.739 see so you can be who you've always known you could be. And it's 548 00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:31.260 wow, surfacing, streat surface the stuff that is going to help you get 549 00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:36.570 better and sing in substantial ways. I love it. This has been great. 550 00:40:36.809 --> 00:40:40.329 How do people find you if people wanted to consider you for coaching? 551 00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:44.449 A hundred percent of my class have all been through word of mouth from other 552 00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:47.730 clients or or board members who have not that I've talked to, but have 553 00:40:47.849 --> 00:40:53.239 seen me work with other CEOS. I mean it's Cramer Advisorycom online. It's 554 00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:57.079 not a big way to website. It's just there to answer some questions. 555 00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.519 I Love I didn't. I even says my passion isn't the founder CEOS. 556 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:06.710 So I love I love CEOS, but also really love taking founders and letting 557 00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:08.869 them go the distance all the way. So anything to do so that's particular 558 00:41:09.550 --> 00:41:14.070 interests me. That's great. That's a great place to wrap up. Thank 559 00:41:14.070 --> 00:41:20.820 you so much for joining us. This has been fantastic and every weekend excellent. 560 00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:24.980 My pleasure. John, great talking to US always. Thanks for listening 561 00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:30.059 to this episode of be to be growth CEEO series. Again, I'm John 562 00:41:30.099 --> 00:41:32.929 Belaz are from the CEO playbook. To reach Bob Kramer and learn more about 563 00:41:32.929 --> 00:41:38.250 his coaching, visit Cramer Advisorycom. That's Cramer with the sea. To Learn 564 00:41:38.289 --> 00:41:43.769 more about CEO coaching, go to CEEO PLAYBOOKCCO. Please connect with me on 565 00:41:43.929 --> 00:41:47.880 Linkedin, CEO Playbook and twitter. Jay Belaz are, CEO. I'd love 566 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:52.559 to hear from you. Send questions my way or recommendations at any time. 567 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.840 If you like this episode, please leave a review and share it with the 568 00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:59.880 friend. It really helps and if you have a question, join the discussion 569 00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:04.949 on Instagram at CEO Playbookco. Thank you for tuning in and subscribing to be 570 00:42:05.070 --> 00:42:08.190 to be growth. Until next time, keep pushing and stay healthy out there. 571 00:42:12.550 --> 00:42:15.780 I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I 572 00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:20.539 get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to 573 00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:22.860 grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you 574 00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:27.460 leave a review for be to be growth in apple podcasts and email me a 575 00:42:27.500 --> 00:42:30.690 screenshot of the review to James at Street Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a 576 00:42:30.849 --> 00:42:35.849 signed copy of my new book, content based networking, how to instantly connect 577 00:42:35.849 --> 00:42:37.849 with anyone you want to know. We get a review, you get a 578 00:42:37.889 --> 00:42:39.250 free book. We both win.