Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hi there, and welcome to the
BDB growth show. This is John Rougie
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and I host our category creation series
here. I'm also the VP of marketing
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strategy at Bombomb, where we help
you build better business relationships through personal one
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to one video. Okay, so
here is the thing with category design.
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It's not the kind of thing that
just a few people can handle. You
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can really only pull it off if
your entire team, your entire company,
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is on board. Now, you
might lead this strategy for marketing, but
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category design is going to affect everyone, from sales to accounting, to hr
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to product everyone else. So getting
your team on board can't be left to
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chance. You have to be intentional
about it. That's why I wanted to
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have our own president at bombomb,
Darren Dawson, on the show with me
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today. Now we are right in
the middle of this category design process at
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bombomb and I wanted to share some
of the things that we've learned as we've
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been trying to get our team not
just aware of what we're working on,
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but excited and involved, and that's
a process that Darren has been leading from
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day one. So if you're ready
to hear some firsthand thoughts on how to
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get your team on board with category
design. Let's dive right in. All
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right, Darren, welcome to the
show. Thanks, John, thanks for
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having me for of course now.
I think this is the first time I've
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actually interviewed someone on this podcast that
I work with directly, so kind of
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excited about that. That's great.
Yeah, so, instead of me telling
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our listeners about bombomb and about your
story, obviously you're not just a president,
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but you're a cofounder. Can you
give us a little bit of background
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about, you know, how bom
mom came to be and then, of
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course, your involvement as as cofounder? Yeah, I mean it was two
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thousand and six. I was running
sales and content teams. Connor was running
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he was an independent sales rep for
a billboard company. We you know,
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he came up with this idea that
we should be sending videos because we both
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had an issue where we had more
people than we had time to communicate with,
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so, you know, customers to
do presentations for. We realize that
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if we wanted to scale ourselves and
scale, more importantly, income, we
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needed to have more meetings, but
that was hard because of time and all
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the constraints around that, and so
he's like, man, we could send
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video. I thought that's that's a
great idea. We should and so he
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can investigated that. Really couldn't find
anything that did it. was looking for
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another technology and again, pretty early
in two thousand and six no, no
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phone in the IPHONE, though,
Youtube was privately held. I mean you
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really wasn't know a video hosting service
out there. So, you know,
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he hosted a video on a server
and he set it out to his customers
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and they loved it. But what
they love most about it is everyone wanted
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a service like that. Where to
what service were using? How did you
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do that? So he came to
me and we'd always been kind of toying
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with ideas. We had a company
before that we had ran, and so
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we're always looking for different entrepreneurial and
things to do with different businesses going on
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and stuff, and he said,
you know, we should do this,
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this, this is the this is
the one, this is a big deal.
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I think we could really make this
happen. You know, we were
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just so early to it. That
was the thing and I had a had
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a pretty good job. He did
too, but he he jumped into the
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deep end of the ocean. LS
teasing and I had just gotten married and
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had a baby on the lamb,
like, I'm not quitting my job quite
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yet. So, you know,
wasn'tntil two thousand and eleven when I quit
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my job and really dove in with
both feat and the coincidentally, I just
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had twins at the time I actually
quit my job. So I don't know,
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everyone has their own appetite for risk
and so connors was higher than my
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time. But by the time we
in two thousand and eleven, things were
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a little bit better. You know, Youtube was owned by Google and the
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iphone had cameras and that really helped
us accelerate what bombomb is, and you
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don't know bomb bombs of video messaging
platform allows you to send quick, simple
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video messages to anybody. So yeah, and I think the the thing I'd
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add to that is it's not just
that there wasn't a technology. People just
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weren't comfortable on camera, like every
yeah, every you know, conference call
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I was on was exactly that.
It was a conference call and if there
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was a video option, you weren't
using it, like unless there was a
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real need. A really good point. Yeah, I was in television at
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the time and so I really saw
it as the world was captivated with this
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idea of the eleven o'clock news,
that those were the professional video people and
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like that's how and also that's how
video should be done. And we were
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big followers of Seth Goden and reading
a lot of you know back then and
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the idea that if you had one
thousand true fans, you know, that
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that was a big deal to us, and so we saw that that we
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could be our own broadcast network.
Right, like either too many people or
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two one person, but through video
we saw the power of videos. So,
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yeah, it's it's fun to think
about. And we also didn't have
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this VC C, you know culture
that I think is so pervasive now that
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everyone has a start up, everyone
is looking the adventure capital and things like.
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It just wasn't like that then,
like it is today. existed,
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but just not it's pervase for pervasive
as it is today. Yeah, so
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you've been working on this for number
of years. Maybe maybe a little bit
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ahead of your time and had maybe
and obviously at that point category design wasn't
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on your radar. Really wasn't on
anyone's radar that. Yeah, term wasn't
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even coined until just a few years
ago. Yeah, but here you and
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I are. Were talking about it
because it's a strategy were discussing and well,
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decided to pursue it. It bombomb
and so it's in today's interview we're
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going to talk about really like how
to get your team on board with that
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strategy. But to give us some
context for that, walk me through how
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you went from category design being basically
nothing, something you had not heard of,
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to where we are today. It
is a strategy we're moving forward with.
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I think everybody, even back then, you you, everyone doesn't.
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Doesn't understand maybe that there's an unknown
category they we just think that we have
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a problem that people don't know they
have. I think that's the way that
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it's been coined right that and if
you're saying that to yourself, I think
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you probably have a category design problem. That that was the epiphany for me.
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You know, I just thought we
really were having to explain a lot
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to people the problem that existed.
Why video is better, but it's a
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category problem. We didn't have a
category that fit. I didn't really realize
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that, and so when I did, it was podcasts on the topic,
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it was reading on the topic and
I really time blocking to think. I
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think that that's hard. That's hard
to find space to create time for that.
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But ring the play bigger book and
you know, I see him.
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I brought this to me last year. I'm like, Oh, like a
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I just don't have time. You
know, it was it was the apprehension
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of is this, is this one
more marketing position thing, and now I
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really don't think it is. But
that's what I had to get myself there.
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I had to read play bigger,
I had to listen to a few
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podcasts and just wrap my head around
it because I knew I would have to
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lead it from the position that was
in. Yeah, so initially had,
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like you mentioned, this idea of
it being just another mark, like marketing
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initiative, or just kind of a
flash in the PAN. What what changed
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your mind about this really being more
of a core strategy when I realized that,
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like I had said, I really
think that this, this is existed
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for a long time. But this
idea that we just have to help them
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understand the problem we solve. They
don't understand the problem you solve or or
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that their problem exists. I think
that's a category issue. And then that
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was kind of the lightbulb going off, and so once that happened, I
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could I could adapt, I think
better. Yeah, okay, so you
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mentioned Seve, Ourcmo, mentioned to
it's you last year. We've been talking
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about it a little bit of past
few months. Like tell me about some
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of the discussions you had. I
don't know if what that was, what
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you with Connor our CEO, or
others, just like over the some of
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the questions you had. What are
the some of the questions others had,
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concerns, things that you just had
to talk through to kind of a make
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that lightbulb go off. I was
skeptical, I get I think I thought
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it was another maybe just a marketing
position, because you think about things like
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Gardner or DT and how you fit
in those things. And but when I
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started to really think about that and
look at that and realize that we were
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in, for instance, other video, they just didn't have a place to
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put us, and so we're just
trying to prove to them where we belonged,
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to show them that. So that's
that was part of the again,
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the Aha, like we need to
invest in this, this needs to be
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an initiative, and then realizing that
it wasn't a marketing initiative. It was
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at a whole company initiative that it
would change fundamentally how everyone really how they
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thought about the business and worked inside
of the business and the mission that they
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had within it. And and that
was a that's a really big deal.
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Right, we're thinking about changing just
how people think inside an organization. That
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that was part of the issue that
everybody had to get in the same page.
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We category design, that they needed
to think about it to help us
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come to conclusions about what they thought
it was. And how do we get
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everybody in the same page? I'm
a big fan of Moncioni's five d functions
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of a team and so whenever we
roll into something I just really think about
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commitment and buy in is one of
those fundamental pillars and we have pretty good
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trust on the teams person the executive
team to introduce things. But you know,
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a lot of times you have people
just kind of held out and not
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not committed and I knew if we
were to pull this off we just had
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to get buy in and commitment across
the board, and so that was one
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of the things that a lot of
one on one meetings with those folks you
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know from the leaders of CS,
product development sales, like this is going
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to be a thing and I'm going
to need you to help me and bring
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it to your teams and be bought
into it. Yeah, so they'll kind
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of like three phases that it sounds
like you went through. There was the
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phase where you're trying to get yourself
sold on it. Yeah, is this
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something we should do? Is this
real? Is it yeah, exactly,
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and then we I think, the
problems that I had a lot of other
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people end up having as well.
Right, right then, we discussed it
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as a leadership team and we we
made that decision as a team that this
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is something that we would go forward
with. And then that's the third phase
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is, of course, sharing that
with the entire team and talking to them
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about that process and what it's going
to mean for them and how they need
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to be involved. But so let's
I want to spend time on each so
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let's start with the leadership team.
What like if you look back at the
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process we used, what do you
what are some of the things you think
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worked well? Then you know you
would advise other companies to do or perhaps
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follow, and what are some of
the things that maybe, if we were
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to talk about it from a leadership
or executive team perspective. Again, we
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might do a little differently. The
first thing that we did was get everybody
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this play, a bigger book,
which is really this definitive work on this
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topic, and then I asked them
to read it. And then, you
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know, I've been listening to some
podcasts. Please check out these podcasts.
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But then ask yourself this question.
Do you think people actually understand the problem
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that we're solving, what we're trying
to do? Do you think that that's
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true? Yes or no? And
that was the each one of them and
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I had one on one conversations with
each one of the leaders that report to
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me, because I think that's the
first buy and that I needed because I
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know that they were the key then
to their teams right and in. And
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so that takes time. It takes
time to read a book. We asked
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them to read it and I think
like a week or two week maybe we
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can have yeah, yeah, but
you know, I that's not at all
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ask for our team. They we
read, were readers. That's it's I
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think you should be if you're lead
ship. So and then, but just
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to get their heads wrapped around it. But it was the question of what
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do you think? Do you think
that we fit in this category? Why
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is it that these folks can never
kind of put us in the right spot
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that we agree with? You know, because we're not video hosting and we're
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not we're not a lot of the
we're not sales automation. So you know,
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what are we? And if we're
not any of those things, then
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we have a category problem that we
have a new defined category which actually,
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in this is the other part of
this conversation with them, is a massive
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opportunity for the business. If that
is true and we are this or early,
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it's just opportunity, and so I
think this will help us see that
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opportunity to please understand this. I
love your opinions and their opinions were a
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lot what I had were is this
just another marketing thing? Is this some
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marketing position? Is this marketing sales
stuff? Right, and and I just
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kind of work through my conclusions that
it wasn't that. It really does change
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how your product people think about what
you're doing and how your development people think
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about what they're building and your your
success folks, how they talk to customers.
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Your customer experience changes. So that
was kind of it from the leadership
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team and we've been working together,
a lot of us for a long time,
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so we got bought in and there's
always I think the other thing is
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you think you're done, but I
think there's always that reinforcing why are we
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doing this? This is why you
need have those answers right. You need
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to keep I think as leaders,
we quit and we launch something or we
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do something, we think we're done, but you need to keep reinforcing it,
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keep telling them why, reminding them
why, the why, the why,
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and make sure you keep because I
think you can lose by and you
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can lose commitment along the way if
you'll keep people in the same kind of
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lane focused on what you're trying to
do. Yeah, yeah, you've you
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certainly be doing that a lot.
Like it's something we talked about every week
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now. Sometimes it's more in depth, sometimes it's it's just mentioned, but
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it's always something that's on the radar. And one thing I want to kind
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of call out that we did in
the way kind of you framed us was
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that it wasn't just like the fact
that they that we were like miscategorized or
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didn't really have a good way for
people to describe us. It was almost
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the other lens was that we knew
that, when we looked at the competitors
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in our space, at this category
was going to take shape sooner or later,
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with the without us, with or
without us, and so there was
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that challenge aspect of like, do
we want to give ourselves the best chance
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of becoming the leader of this category
or do we want to set on the
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on the sidelines and kind of watch
things play out? Yeah, it's right.
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So we talked about that. What
you mentioned, some things we did
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with well, anything you do differently
and in terms of talking about this with
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the leadership team next time, Gosh, I or not. All in all,
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I would wish I would have done
this sooner. When I think about
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because because of what you just said, just the because there is it's the
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timing thing. It's so if you're
out there and you know you have a
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problem that is unique, you know
to seize it, because I wish I
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would have done it sooner. And
but we got buy and I mean we
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turned around pretty fast, I think
you know. You know, John,
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was really your interview process with our
CMO that really brought us to bear and
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and for us it was it was
that him bringing it to me, just
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the conversations he was having with you. And so I mean, we turned
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around pretty quick, but still I
always wish I would. I don't often
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do that. Done often same way. We should have done that quicker,
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but this one we probably should have
done quicker. Yeah, so one thing,
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one thing we did wait on,
though, was we didn't really talk
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about this with the team at large
until our executive team was was bought in,
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and that was intentional. So tell
me about like your thoughts on the
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right time and the right way to
share this with the team, you know,
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once you're executive teams bought in.
Yeah, for me, that's two
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ways. You know, we're we
became because of the time of we find
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ourselves in, this challenging time around
this virus that's everywhere. We became a
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distributed team very quickly and something that
we've been trying to implement is more what
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I call digital leadership, where you're
using the digital tools that you have to
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scale leadership through video, and so
we were using bomb bomb raising zoom,
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but and so that's one method that
I can talk about. But the other
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one was that I expect that if
I have my team's bought in at the
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leadership level, then I expect them
to carry that message to their teams and
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help them understand it. And so
that was one. But then through I
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do a Friday video every Friday and
kind of update the entire company. I've
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been doing it before the virus kind
of happen, but we do this to
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keep everyboy up to speed that was
happening in the company, the positives and
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negatives, everything we want to communicate. So this became one of the pieces
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that we communicated and we offered also
to buy everyone this play bigger book to
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help them understand. I recommended the
PODCAST. Is very similar to what I
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done with the leadership team and invited
them to engage. And you know you're
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not going to get everybody to engage, but I think when you ask them
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to be a part of this,
you know, I kind of challenge them
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like this is a part of leadership, this is what we're going as a
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company. Do you want to have
a voice in this? We'd love for
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you to participate in this is how
you can participate and it always gives me
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a read on engagement and who's really
bought into. Like how many books for
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ASP for right like how many people
cook that the leg to the podcast,
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like what was the real engagement on? For me, I think about that
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a lot. As far as internally
and what's the internal engagement with the initiatives
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that we're tackling? How bought in
is the team and where do I need
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to work and what what areas of
the business do I need to work in
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the get that buying broader, because
I know I have it with my leaders,
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but how do we get that to
the to the front of the line?
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Right? And so the book was
a big deal. Like how many
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book orders did I pay for?
Right, because we've got a you know,
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about a hundred and fifty some od
employees and yeah, we bought I
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know we bought books for all marketing. So that covers, you know,
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a dozen, maybe fifteen and least
probably bought like eighty books. Right.
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So far are still that gap there, and so thinking like okay, who's
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not on this list? You know, wh what we need to do to
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close that gap? Yeah, and
as leaders we want everybody to be like
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just so happy to be at work
and they just think it's the best job
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ever. Right, but that just
kind of tells you that you might need
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to work on and that not everybody
thinks you're so awesome and right, you
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need to help them along, but
I love the fact that we got that
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many folks to kind of commit and
are they reading it? So now I'm
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actually in this Friday video. I'm
going to challenge them. Hey, what
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are you learning from? Play bigger? I would love to hear your input,
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which you were your comments from from
the podcast that you're you're listing on
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the topic. Like just challenge like
again, like no, I want to
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know. I'm and so, you
know, I think it's leaders always get
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we we're a bad at communication for
not telling you what's going on. I
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have no input to what the business
is. So this is one of my
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get out jail free cards right that
I could say. Look, I asked
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you here and we have and I
got responses from some people, but not
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from also that feedback loop. I
think it's important to you because I want
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to understand. You know, I
do believe, like I said, that
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I think it impacts everybody's job and
that was one of the things I told
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them. I said, you need
to read this book, because what we're
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about to do, it's not a
marketing initiative. Like reinforcing this idea that
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this is what it isn't and this
is what it is. I think it's
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going to affect your job, and
I gave examples of this. is how
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I think it affected in customer success, sales, development, product and so
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on. Accounting, UM, HR. Right, like think about all those
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different departments at how it affects them
and kind of give them a real why
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you should pay attention to this.
So so, tell me more about HR
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and accounting, because I know when
I talk to people about category design.
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First you got to get him off
the idea that it's not just marketing,
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it's bigger than that. But then
still I think there's an assumption that,
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okay, maybe it's marketing, sales
and perhaps products, but then, like
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people don't jump to the idea that
it affects someone in hr or accounting.
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But it does. So what in
your mind? What are the things you
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said to those groups? How it's
yeah, it's a part of the mission
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of the business. You have to
I mean you can ride, I guess
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in both of those roles. You
can just kind of said it maybe to
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you can some them the sidelines and
just kind of do your job. But
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the mission of the business. You're
supporting all of these groups. So,
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yeah, I'm asking every way to
read a book. HR when folks complaining
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about this or that, about not
having a voice in the business or not
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having a path to leadership, ask
them how did you, how are you
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involved in the category design things that
they're in connor ask you to participate in
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you know, right there, I
think is a great example of how to
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bring everybody along. They're having a
lot of those conversations that we don't get
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the opportunity to have necessarily, and
I think that's a great example right there,
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that asking the question to help help
me get by and help me get
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people involved in accounting. I think
affects. It can affect billing and sales
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and and other things that we're doing. It can affect spend in marketing.
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It can affect spending expenses buying books. You know, why are we doing
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this? What's this for? How
much are we going to spend this?
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You know, all those things come
up. Well, if you read the
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book, You understand what we're trying
to do. I think those questions become
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easier to answer. Yeah, now
we don't have, you know, a
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set of VC investors or practs a
big board of directors, but we do
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have some external stakeholders and I haven't
really asked you before, like how much
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they've been part of that conversation,
but I'd love to hear what you share
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with them and what that response has
been. You we have two board advisors
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that are really in the trenches with
us. The others are kind of silent,
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you know, friendly folks from a
long time ago, but those two
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really have engaged with that, read
the book, enjoyed the conversation, helping
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to in the kind of like they
had the same conversation with them. You
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know, here's a book, read
the book, Here's The podcast, and
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then answer this question. Do you
think people understand who we're trying to help?
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Is it? Is it intuitive?
And if it's not, then I
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think this is what we need to
pursue. And both of them came to
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that conclusion as well. So this
is very much akin to what I did
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of the senior team. M But
one of the other, I think,
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benefits of what you're doing with so
much discussion internally is that it's not just
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keeping the team aware, it's keeping
them involved and as we work on our
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point of view and our story and
our lightning strikes. It's you're creating a
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situation where it's not, you know, something that was handed down from on
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high and correct or just have yeah, but they feel like it's something that
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they helped participate in and create,
and thus they have our ownership of everything
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we're doing there. I hope so. That is definitely the goal. We'll
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see. We're I feel like we're
still midway through the stream, but we're
349
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getting there. Yeah, I know
in the in the book and play bigger.
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I can't remember the term that they
use, but there's a term for
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someone who's just a real like,
really down and out about category design and
352
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how like that can be a real
cancer to just making that effort. Six
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testful is that. I don't know
if you've run into that specifically, but
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if you did, what would like? How would you handle that? What's
355
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your advice for dealing with someone whose
head is in that space? Man,
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I hope not. I hope I
haven't it, but again, that would
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be a fear I have that that
conversation is happening and I'm not cognizant of
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it. Again, where I trust
that my leaders are bought in and I
359
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and I hope that they're carrying that
conversation. That's why HR and nes be
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bought in and everyone does. So
you don't have that. What is this?
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Where we spending this money on or
what are we doing this for?
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This makes no sense. Will you
have you read the book? Do you
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understand well? What did your direct
report or your your supervisors have to say
364
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about that? And if I was
met with that conversation, I would I
365
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would be more inquisitive and curious just
to how things are going for them,
366
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what's going on personally professionally? I
would dive into that because I you know,
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frankly, there's got to be something
more underlying to that pain and problem.
368
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Then category design. Yeah, and
you know, to be fair,
369
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like you in your one of your
updates, you mentioned like this is something
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that's going to affect you like right. I, ever very up front with
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you. Need to read this if
you really care about your job. I
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mean not that you're going to lose
it, but if you want to grow
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as a person and you want to
be in engaged in the direction of the
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business, this is a great way
to do that. Right, and it's
375
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like a it was like you know, your cheese is about to be moved.
376
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We're telling you that it's going to
be moved and it's going to be
377
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moved for a good reason and there's
reason to be excited about it. But
378
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we need to let you know so
you're not surprise when things are different or
379
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we talked about different changes or directions
or ideas. Yeah, that's right and,
380
00:26:26.210 --> 00:26:30.609
moreover, I it's just such an
opportunity. If we can get it
381
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right, if you can get this
right, the opportunity is massive. The
382
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other side's massive. I think being
a part of that ride is a great
383
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look. I always tell folks at
bomb bomb you know, I hope that
384
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you're here for a very long time. You love working here, but if
385
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you're not, I want this to
be a place where you grew more than
386
00:26:48.470 --> 00:26:52.789
you grew anywhere else in the and
I think about man, it's it's just
387
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if you want to build your resume, if you want a career path,
388
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that's exciting. This is something you
know. It's a it's a metal on
389
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your uniform, if you will,
that you achieve this with a business and
390
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you help implement it and you know
about it. It's something you understand.
391
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I think it's very, very valuable
in the future. Yeah, it's like
392
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.619
if you're in the military, you
know it's a manage a whole lot more
393
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.210
that you win the war. Right, like, right, I got my
394
00:27:18.329 --> 00:27:21.730
category design jump wings, right,
something like that. Right. Yeah,
395
00:27:22.369 --> 00:27:25.289
so, like like a lot of
things, I know, at least for
396
00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:27.849
me, I'll read about something and
it sounds one way in theory and then
397
00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:33.319
in practice there's it's usually a little
different. There's some surprises along the way.
398
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.079
What have those been for you in
this process? You know, it's
399
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:42.799
there's so many questions you end up
asking yourself in your in your customers and
400
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:52.309
your people about who you think you
are, and that always surprises me.
401
00:27:52.349 --> 00:27:56.430
I guess you spend so much time
building a product thinking about the problem you
402
00:27:56.549 --> 00:28:03.740
solve and the people it serves,
and then when you you really you get
403
00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:08.259
this a lot and product interviews,
but this is far more invasive or all
404
00:28:08.259 --> 00:28:12.289
encompassing, and so I think it
gets deeper and I guess I've been surprised
405
00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:22.049
really about how how we think things
are versus how maybe customers do or employees
406
00:28:22.170 --> 00:28:25.690
do, the team does, what
they think about it. That, I
407
00:28:25.769 --> 00:28:30.839
think that's actually been my biggest one
is how the team thinks about certain aspects
408
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:36.279
of the product or how we've developed
it are done different things and their perceptions
409
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.680
of those things and the outcomes ever
created from it. So it's just a
410
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:45.950
big you got to create space to
think. I can't straight like I've never
411
00:28:47.670 --> 00:28:52.710
before, or spent more time Tom
Time blocking to think about category design,
412
00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:57.180
the impact that's having on the business
in listening to feedback then I have.
413
00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:03.460
I've never done it more than I
have now through this process. So one
414
00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:07.339
of those was just hearing ways that
our team and our customers talk about the
415
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.009
product and that being different from how
you're not thinking about it. With with
416
00:29:11.410 --> 00:29:15.609
category design, you can get to
this point where you're trying to scale.
417
00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:18.289
You know, how do you scale
this team that we've been here a long
418
00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:22.650
time. Our core team has been
along here a long time. You kind
419
00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:25.359
of get this bubble them until we
all get it. We understand how this
420
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.039
thing is and we perceive how it's
perceived in a way. But the diversity
421
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.000
that you get when you're talking to
a law your larger group, and then
422
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:38.430
as the as the company has grown, all the users you have, the
423
00:29:38.549 --> 00:29:44.029
different you know types of users you
have and which one's the best ones of
424
00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:48.150
all of those and I think that's
a big growing up maturity process for any
425
00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:53.059
business, and this process, I
think, put you through that at a
426
00:29:53.220 --> 00:30:00.019
at an accelerated rate, because you're
spending so much time focusing on like the
427
00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:03.500
strategy of the business, what the
what category of the business is and what
428
00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:06.579
problem we're trying to solve. All
these kind of like it's like a you
429
00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:11.650
know, it's like a magnifying glass
and a and the sun coming through its
430
00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:15.410
amplified, because once in a while
you'll pick up these, you know,
431
00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:21.920
verbatim's from clients or, you know, internally, but here that entire thing
432
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.599
is escalated, accelerated in magnific find
into a tighter window of time. Yeah,
433
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.480
yeah, so going forward, what
are some of the things that you
434
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:36.309
think we need to do well in
order to, think you sustain this momentum,
435
00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:41.509
to pull off category design and just
be successful in this whole endeavor again
436
00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:45.069
reminding everyone why we're doing it.
I think just keeping the buy in,
437
00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:51.099
keeping the commitment sustained. We can't
just say we're doing it and then expect
438
00:30:51.140 --> 00:30:53.740
that that continues to happen. I
think people even that maybe bought in the
439
00:30:53.819 --> 00:31:00.380
beginning might have questions along the way. That maybe has their focus away from
440
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:04.569
the committed side of things. So
I think pushing on that and then leading
441
00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:11.769
by example. I really feel that
that's important for me in my leadership team
442
00:31:11.369 --> 00:31:18.640
that we walk the walk and talk
to talk and don't deviate from that.
443
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:23.160
And so we read the book,
we're we're telling them the latest thing we
444
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.119
heard on this podcast about the topic
or just leading by example. It is
445
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.910
is a big deal. I think
it is in all things, but in
446
00:31:33.069 --> 00:31:37.109
this they have to see that you're
committed to it too, or they're not
447
00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:40.109
going to be committed to it.
Yeah, and that's why it's so important
448
00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:44.309
that this isn't something that me or
Steve Ore see them. Oh Yeah,
449
00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:47.660
be the cheerleader for like. It
has to be you and Connor, because
450
00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:49.740
you got to set that example for
the whole company. Yes, you,
451
00:31:49.900 --> 00:31:53.380
Yep, complete and then, and
then I need y'all to help me do
452
00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:57.180
that with your teams and then so
and then through all the leadership teams that
453
00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:00.890
buy and I think permeates from the
top down. Yeah, it's to buy
454
00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:06.049
and if you get to buy in, doing the work becomes not about to
455
00:32:06.089 --> 00:32:08.730
work. Kind of right. Right, and one of the things that we
456
00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:14.250
talked about early on was just the
time horizon for the thinking this work,
457
00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:19.440
and I'm mistakenly told you I wanted
to go fast, which is like,
458
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.720
Oh, it's a lot of work, I think. I think I underestimates,
459
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:29.960
underestimated in and how much is involved
here. And so it's like we're
460
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.430
always going fast anyway and drinking from
a fire hose kind of thing. That's
461
00:32:32.470 --> 00:32:37.109
like, yeah, just getting past
the fire hose and going right to the
462
00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:42.190
hydrant. But I think I want
to go faster because I felt like we
463
00:32:42.269 --> 00:32:45.859
were behind on it, that that, yeah, someone's going to do this
464
00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:51.299
the for us if we don't write, and so I don't want that happen.
465
00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:54.180
That could happen. Yeah, and
I think the one like counterbalancing forces
466
00:32:54.220 --> 00:33:00.650
this idea that you know when you
come up with your messaging around this category
467
00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:02.609
and that you know point of view
around this. It's not something that you
468
00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:07.250
want to test out for a month
and go back on and try something else,
469
00:33:07.329 --> 00:33:10.250
like it's a it's a commitment,
right, and so you do want
470
00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:13.799
to move quickly, you also want
to make sure you put the time into
471
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:15.119
it and you know, block time
out of your day, like you're doing,
472
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.799
to think through it and make sure
that we're giving our best selves the
473
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:24.000
best chances of getting it right.
Yeah, I think everyone probably wonders,
474
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:28.069
how long is it take? And
I think it probably takes as long as
475
00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:31.029
it takes, and that's like the
worst answer for any person in your ship,
476
00:33:31.230 --> 00:33:36.349
right, but it's it's kind of
hard to rush that. I think
477
00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:38.390
some of this information. If you
rushed it, I don't know if you
478
00:33:38.549 --> 00:33:43.099
get the same outcome that you're because
the idea is getting the outcome what you
479
00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.579
want, which is you want to
be number one in the category, but
480
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:51.019
the leader in the category. That
the name people think of when they think
481
00:33:51.099 --> 00:33:53.099
of the problem you solve. Sure, who do I need to solve this
482
00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:58.089
problem? They think of your company
and that's what that's the outcome, and
483
00:33:58.369 --> 00:34:04.250
second isn't good. So you know, really you got to do it fast
484
00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.610
enough to take out your competitors or
to win in that race. I am
485
00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:12.519
take them out, just define your
space in the market. But yeah,
486
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.280
there's there's probably happy medium there.
I think. I think we're striking it.
487
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:19.559
Of course. I feel pretty good
about it. Right. All right,
488
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:24.150
Darren, any any parting advice for
any other cofounders executives who are thinking
489
00:34:24.150 --> 00:34:29.510
about category design. Maybe they're at
a point where maybe they read play bigger,
490
00:34:29.630 --> 00:34:31.710
maybe they've just listened to this interview. They want to bring it up
491
00:34:31.710 --> 00:34:36.309
with their team, but they're not
sure what that looks like, what that
492
00:34:36.429 --> 00:34:38.739
next step is, which what's your
kind of parting advice for someone in that
493
00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:45.579
situation? I really do believe buying
with your team, your core leadership team,
494
00:34:45.619 --> 00:34:49.539
is key that. If I would, I would start to have the
495
00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:52.650
first conversation. I would ask yourself
myself, what is the next right thing
496
00:34:52.809 --> 00:34:55.690
to do and decide what that step
is and then, after that, was
497
00:34:55.809 --> 00:35:00.650
the next right thing to do after
that? And I think the first thing
498
00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:04.929
to do is probably, if you
have a partner and cofounder like I did,
499
00:35:04.929 --> 00:35:07.320
it's what do you think about this? I think this is something we
500
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:13.320
should do and and again pose it
with a question of hey, you know,
501
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.920
read this chapter of this book,
or here's a podcast, or do
502
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.989
you think that everyone understands a problem
that we uniquely solve easily? And if
503
00:35:23.070 --> 00:35:27.750
the answer is null, we should
consider this. I like to talk to
504
00:35:27.789 --> 00:35:30.070
you more about that next week to
let give them time. I don't think
505
00:35:30.070 --> 00:35:34.949
everybody can just like instantly decide,
so maybe giving them time to come around
506
00:35:34.949 --> 00:35:38.099
to that conclusion and then take the
next one and the next one and then
507
00:35:38.179 --> 00:35:44.500
talk about as a group. I
think that's that worked well and that's where
508
00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:46.380
you're at. You just read the
book, you listen to this. I
509
00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:51.090
would I would start to have one
on one conversations to kind of move in,
510
00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:52.809
you know. So it sounds like
what you're saying is, even if
511
00:35:52.849 --> 00:35:57.409
you're bought in and you're excited and
you know in your heart of hearts that
512
00:35:57.969 --> 00:36:00.730
category design is the right strategy for
your company, if you if you go
513
00:36:00.889 --> 00:36:05.119
into hot and you try to make
the hardest cell and that first conversation,
514
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.800
that's really not going to get you
anywhere. You just want to see if
515
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.559
people are open to discussing it and
then through that this session. Yeah,
516
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.039
getting the internal bind is the key
because without it, you you cannot do
517
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:22.269
this. Without that, you without
them committed and then ultimately a good portion
518
00:36:22.309 --> 00:36:27.070
of the entire business committed, it's
just not going to have the outcome which
519
00:36:27.110 --> 00:36:29.989
is your number one in your category. That's what you're trying to do and
520
00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:34.260
that's not easy. I am far
past the days of me being able to
521
00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:39.059
just drop what I want done in
this business and have it happened and and
522
00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:43.420
and I don't want to be that
way anymore. Like it that that's the
523
00:36:43.460 --> 00:36:47.369
way you have to do it when
you're a five person team or a twenty
524
00:36:47.449 --> 00:36:52.809
person team. You know that.
But we're we've skilled past the entrepreneur.
525
00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:58.250
You know, ideas are chief executions
hard like you know, I've had there's
526
00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:00.610
been too many of these ideas.
I've been like, oh, that one
527
00:37:00.690 --> 00:37:02.960
one was so good, so why
is this one? You'RE gonna have to
528
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.000
you know, the size of our
business, like, why is this the
529
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.000
direction that we need to go on? You need to get them bought in
530
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:13.159
because they might follow you, but
if they're not committed and bought in,
531
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.110
it's going to create drag on the
whole program and you won't have the success
532
00:37:16.150 --> 00:37:20.429
you want. Yeah, it would
be a really expensive diversion for suspend lot
533
00:37:20.469 --> 00:37:22.710
of time on it and not be
able to get the team bought in right,
534
00:37:22.710 --> 00:37:24.389
because if, yeah, if you
get nine months into this and they
535
00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:30.820
just kind of Fizzles, man as
a lot of cash. Right. All
536
00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:35.139
right, Darren, if someone wants
to get in touch with you talking about
537
00:37:35.300 --> 00:37:39.420
category designer bombomb or, Yep,
you your sweet be generous shirt. What's
538
00:37:39.699 --> 00:37:44.059
what's the best way for them to
do that? I'm easy to find on
539
00:37:44.289 --> 00:37:47.650
Linkedin, Darren Dawson and then,
but I am one of those guys who
540
00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:52.170
likes to communicate facetoface. You want
to hit me up on email, Darren
541
00:37:52.289 --> 00:37:55.369
bombombcom. Love the chat with you. Love to understand, love to always
542
00:37:55.369 --> 00:37:59.960
love to collaborate with other entrepreneurs,
other business owners, trying to figure the
543
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.079
stuff out. So that's the best
way. All right, good stuff.
544
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.239
Thanks for being with me, Darren. Thanks, John, appreciate you.
545
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:10.159
Okay. Well, that reps up
this episode of the Category Creation Series.
546
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:14.869
I hope you enjoyed it and I
hope that this episode helped you in some
547
00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:17.469
small way to become a better marketer. Now, if you want to get
548
00:38:17.469 --> 00:38:22.550
in touch with me, you can
just head to John Dot Marketing in your
549
00:38:22.590 --> 00:38:25.269
browser or, of course, you
can find me on Linkedin. Thanks for
550
00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:32.099
listening. I'll see you next time. One of the things we've learned about
551
00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:37.860
podcast audience growth is that word of
mouth works. The works really, really
552
00:38:37.940 --> 00:38:40.019
well actually. So if you love
this show, it would be awesome if
553
00:38:40.059 --> 00:38:44.449
you texted a friend to tell them
about it and if you send me a
554
00:38:44.650 --> 00:38:47.289
text with a screenshot of the text
you sent to your friend Metta. I
555
00:38:47.409 --> 00:38:51.730
know I'll send you a copy of
my book, content based networking, how
556
00:38:51.769 --> 00:38:54.329
to instantly connect with anyone. You
want to know my cell phone numbers.
557
00:38:54.369 --> 00:38:59.159
Four hundred seven, four nine,
hundred and three hund and three, two
558
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:00.480
eight. Happy texting.