#CategoryCreation 21: Why Category Design Thinking Is Necessary In Times of Crisis w/ Kevin Maney & Mike Damphousse

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:08.630 Either and welcome to the BDB growth show. This is John Rougie and I, 2 00:00:08.669 --> 00:00:13.589 who start category creation series here. I'm also the VP of marketing strategy 3 00:00:13.630 --> 00:00:18.030 at Bombomb, where we help you build better business relationships through personal one to 4 00:00:18.149 --> 00:00:23.260 one video. Now, we recorded this episode in late April, just as 5 00:00:23.339 --> 00:00:27.899 the COVID nineteen crisis was in full swing. And look, this time might 6 00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:31.739 feel like it's a situation where you need to hunker down and wait for things 7 00:00:31.739 --> 00:00:37.049 to return to normal. But here's the thing. While this crisis definitely sucks, 8 00:00:37.090 --> 00:00:41.810 it will actually produce a far more opportunities for category design than in recent 9 00:00:41.850 --> 00:00:46.049 times, and to help us explore that, I'll be joined by Kevin Maney 10 00:00:46.210 --> 00:00:51.560 and Mike Damp House, who are both partners at category design advisors. Kevin 11 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:55.759 is also one of the CO authors of play bigger book, you've probably heard 12 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.359 US mentioned in this series before, as well as the author of several other 13 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:04.030 business books. So if you want to learn how category design thinking can help 14 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:10.030 you survive or even thrive right now, then this is definitely an episode for 15 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:14.670 you. All right, Kevin and Mike, Welcome to the show. Thanks 16 00:01:14.670 --> 00:01:18.150 for being with me today. Thank Yo, and to be on. Yeah, 17 00:01:18.620 --> 00:01:21.340 now, let's see, I want to get this straight, because one 18 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:26.739 of you is is in the other ones house at at the moment. I 19 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:30.299 just I just just love that. So see, Kevin, you're in Mike's 20 00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:34.010 House and Mike here in your other house today. Am I getting that right? 21 00:01:34.409 --> 00:01:36.930 That's correct. I'm a new answer. Kevin's down at my place in 22 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:42.489 Florida. We're both quarantine like everyone else, but Kevin decided Florida was a 23 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:46.849 better spot than then New York City. Yeah, so you see, I 24 00:01:46.930 --> 00:01:49.599 even get the better end of that deal. Well, like then, that 25 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.200 and just to pay the New Hampshire weather. I don't think we're going going 26 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.719 this goal this late in the month. Yeah, yeah, no, I 27 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:01.950 appreciated Mike's offer to come down here instead of being in my one bedroom apartment 28 00:02:02.109 --> 00:02:06.750 for a month with, you know, nothing happening in New York and no 29 00:02:06.909 --> 00:02:09.949 place to go. So it's been a lot nicer. Yeah, good deal. 30 00:02:10.110 --> 00:02:14.270 All right. Well, you guys both work together in category design advisors 31 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:16.099 and you know some of our listeners will have heard of you, maybe, 32 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:20.699 especially if they've read play bigger. Kevin. Obviously you're a coauthor of that, 33 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:23.939 but could you give us eats? Just a little bit more background about 34 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:27.379 what you're up to today. Kevin. You want to go first, sure, 35 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:30.210 so. I mean, I'm a I'm a long time journalist and author 36 00:02:30.650 --> 00:02:36.729 and technology for a whole bunch of books and for pretty much every business or 37 00:02:36.770 --> 00:02:42.250 technology publication you can name. And a few years ago will play bigger and 38 00:02:42.530 --> 00:02:46.639 and that turned into a second career as a category designer. So you know, 39 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:50.639 few years down the road we've got a couple of years under our belt 40 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.039 of working with that, probably dozen hundreds. I don't have any clients at 41 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:58.789 this point, so I spend a good deal of my time on category design 42 00:02:58.870 --> 00:03:02.389 projects, working with companies and twing meetings. We just had a video meeting, 43 00:03:02.509 --> 00:03:06.270 like everybody else is doing these days, this morning, with a client. 44 00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:09.789 And yet still qu I had is in as an author and working on 45 00:03:10.349 --> 00:03:14.939 new concepts and new ideas and have a book that's coming out soon. So 46 00:03:15.259 --> 00:03:17.219 you know, between those two things, staying busy. Yeah, YEA, 47 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:20.740 yeah. And now, Mike, I know you're just as busy as well. 48 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:24.180 We're working with Kevin and the the team of category design advisors. Were 49 00:03:24.259 --> 00:03:29.490 you up today? Well, it's my background with the whole connection here. 50 00:03:29.530 --> 00:03:32.129 Kevin got brought in to write the book. I was friends with all the 51 00:03:32.210 --> 00:03:36.610 play bigger guys going back to one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine when I 52 00:03:36.650 --> 00:03:40.439 worked with Dave Peterson and, you know, through the years staying close to 53 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:45.560 Dave and Christopher and, you know, doing some projects with them on different 54 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:51.439 companies, and I was CEO of a company, CEO Cmo, a company 55 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.189 that I'm still part owner in, an advisor Green leads, which is the 56 00:03:55.310 --> 00:04:01.469 man generation company which surprisingly right now during this covid economy, is actually doing 57 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.830 okay. You know, we coined to phrase a few weeks ago that two 58 00:04:05.870 --> 00:04:10.020 thousand and twenty is the year pipeline. It's not the year revenant, which 59 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:14.099 you know, was an insight we had that we realize there's going to be 60 00:04:14.180 --> 00:04:17.459 pent up demand later in the year. And you know, I came into 61 00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:24.370 the category design world when the book play bigger came out and Dave Peterson, 62 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:28.209 who's very good friend of mine, called me a few months later and said 63 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:32.850 you know, hey, you know damn you people call me damn nickname, 64 00:04:33.129 --> 00:04:36.529 and he said, Hey, the response we got from the book is so 65 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:42.879 overwhelming that we can't just handle it all with play bigger. They're consulting firm, 66 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.439 and he said would you partner with Kevin Maney, Co author of the 67 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.040 book, and try to pull together an East Coast version of what we do? 68 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:55.670 And so Kevin and I formed category design advisors. The East Coast thing 69 00:04:55.750 --> 00:04:59.949 had nothing to do with anything. We ended up in Slovenia, Singapore, 70 00:04:59.990 --> 00:05:03.029 Sidney, Australia. We've been all over the place and here we are now, 71 00:05:03.189 --> 00:05:06.339 three and a half years later. Kevin said, you know tens or 72 00:05:06.339 --> 00:05:11.459 hundreds of companies? I think if you if you count the incubators we've worked 73 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:16.660 with like text stars, we've probably influenced over a thousand companies in their category 74 00:05:16.779 --> 00:05:21.250 thinking and work very, very closely with about forty. There were direct one 75 00:05:21.329 --> 00:05:26.370 on one clients. It's kind of exciting to see the discipline of category design 76 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:30.490 propagate and that's how we met John. I stumbled on one of your podcasts 77 00:05:30.529 --> 00:05:33.329 and I'm like, Oh, here's a guy talking about category design. I 78 00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:36.680 don't know them, and so it's great to make the connection. Yeah, 79 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.600 we've had a lot of fun talking about it over the last few months and 80 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.800 you know, I'm excited to talk to you guys today because you know, 81 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:48.040 as you know, category design even before that term was coined. It's the 82 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:53.870 principle that's existed for a long, long time, even before software. It's 83 00:05:53.910 --> 00:05:59.310 idea of solving new problems and building new markets. But the situation we're in 84 00:05:59.389 --> 00:06:03.029 right now it's especially interesting for category designers. There's some challenges, but there's 85 00:06:03.029 --> 00:06:08.420 also a lot of opportunities that are presented in just so much change, in 86 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:13.579 disruption that's happening now and happening so quickly. And and Kevin, I know 87 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:17.300 you've thought about or you thought about this a lot recently and I've written some 88 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:20.209 about it as well. So I looked to maybe kind of tea things up 89 00:06:20.209 --> 00:06:26.329 today by just kind of hearing from you about how category design is different and 90 00:06:26.529 --> 00:06:31.329 what category designers should be thinking about in this time of crisis. Well, 91 00:06:31.370 --> 00:06:35.439 it's Inter yeah, it's a really interesting topic right now. Well, one 92 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:40.680 of the I don't know what at the core of this idea of category design, 93 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.560 of course, first of all is just the idea that that creating a 94 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:49.310 new category or discovering a new category and and making yourself, you know, 95 00:06:49.470 --> 00:06:54.509 be the one who defines it, dominates that category. For a whole lot 96 00:06:54.550 --> 00:06:58.550 of reasons that have been proven out by all sorts of different economic theories and 97 00:06:58.670 --> 00:07:02.100 everything that it's it's the place you want to be. It's the way you 98 00:07:02.259 --> 00:07:05.540 end up, you know, garnering issues share the market and a lot of 99 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:11.100 people's at tension and a lot of mind space. So it's what you want 100 00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:13.579 to shoot for. If you're just trying to go ahead and say I'm a 101 00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:16.329 little better than somebody else and somebody else's category, you're probably just scratching out 102 00:07:16.410 --> 00:07:20.449 market share. But at the core of this whole idea of category design is 103 00:07:20.569 --> 00:07:25.569 this idea that that you're solving a problem is going on. Solved that either 104 00:07:25.689 --> 00:07:30.120 either you're recognizing that there's a new way to solve an old problem that people 105 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.920 didn't have any idea about before, or, in some cases, actually identifying 106 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:39.079 a problem people didn't even understand that they had and defining that, which is 107 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:43.000 the kind of a brilliant little twist on things. Well, one of the 108 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:46.990 points that we've been making lately is that when something like this happens, and 109 00:07:47.790 --> 00:07:51.029 the two thousand and eighty financial crisis was a bit of a preview of of 110 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:55.870 when, you know, everything seems to stop at once, but we've never 111 00:07:55.910 --> 00:08:01.100 experienced anything like what's going on right now where the entire globe basically stops their 112 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:07.139 economies and and people quickly adopted doing things in a whole new ways. And 113 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:11.459 so one point is for if you're sitting sitting there thinking I want to try 114 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:16.730 to define and and dominate some new category business, a lot of problems are 115 00:08:18.370 --> 00:08:22.610 different or new or change just in this past month from what they might have 116 00:08:22.649 --> 00:08:26.879 done six months ago. So if you're a company that you know that's already 117 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:31.399 going and you you have a problem that you believe you solved, it's worth 118 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.639 looking at that problem again because it may be different now or have different nuances 119 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.039 to it. Or if you're stuck in somebody else's category where you know you're 120 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.590 solving the same problem they are and they don't recognize the problem with somewhat different 121 00:08:43.070 --> 00:08:46.830 or needs a different solution that it used to, you might be a have 122 00:08:46.950 --> 00:08:52.149 a chance here to outposition that other company. If you're an interpreter or sitting 123 00:08:52.149 --> 00:08:56.700 there right now looking at this whole situation and you know to really think through 124 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:01.820 how the world is changing or how they how changes that were already happening have 125 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:07.580 been accelerated by like covid it's it would be an interesting exercise as a way 126 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:09.529 to discover a new problem, to solve a new way, to solve a 127 00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:13.570 problem or problem people didn't realize they were they had, and build something to 128 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:18.210 that and define it as a as a new category of business. These, 129 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:22.289 these times like this, can seem devastating two companies, and they are so 130 00:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.440 many ways, and you know and you're worried about sup preserving cash and or 131 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:31.759 worried about your employee safety and all those different things. But honestly they present 132 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:37.240 enormous opportunities because when everything changes like this, it just opens up markets that 133 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.350 whatever there before. It's interesting too that, you know, companies have a 134 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:45.750 lot on their plate right now. They're trying to figure out cash flow and 135 00:09:45.830 --> 00:09:48.750 how are they going to survive through this hour, where they going to focus 136 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:54.500 on? But if they have the resources to not do reductions and force, 137 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:58.620 if they could keep things focused, now's a great time to think, you 138 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:03.100 know, differently in your company strategy. There's, you know, no events 139 00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:07.529 to go to, there's less travel, which eats up a ton of time 140 00:10:07.649 --> 00:10:11.970 from most executive of so, you know, it's like what you just said 141 00:10:11.009 --> 00:10:16.090 with with bomb on. You just bought, you know, twenty five books 142 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.970 of play bigger for them to all read, and it's an ideal time for 143 00:10:20.090 --> 00:10:26.159 people to re examine themselves. I likened it the other day to my dad, 144 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.559 who used to be an executive use at Lockheed, and I said it's 145 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.759 like January when you you wake up on January second and say I need to 146 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.669 rethink myself, you know, and you start looking at your health and your 147 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:43.190 wellness and you know your motivations, and I think companies should use the same 148 00:10:43.269 --> 00:10:46.990 opportunity right now. Yeah, I think you know, I've seen a bunch 149 00:10:46.029 --> 00:10:50.620 of different opinions on on Linkedin and some other channels and every once in a 150 00:10:50.659 --> 00:10:56.259 while I hear these comments about people waiting or hoping for things to, quote 151 00:10:56.259 --> 00:11:03.620 unquote, get back to normal, and I understand the thinking there and I 152 00:11:03.700 --> 00:11:05.210 think it is it's some of the we all would love for things to go 153 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:11.850 back to normal. But I also consider that kind of attitude really dangerous in 154 00:11:11.889 --> 00:11:15.289 a way, because if that's your mo right now, you're just kind of 155 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:18.799 holding out and tell things revert to how they were January of this year, 156 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.919 then I think you're going to find yourself in a situation that will, I 157 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.919 guess, you you won't find yourself in that situation. Something is going to 158 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:31.399 change in your business directly or your customers business or the environment you you operate. 159 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:37.070 And so is that something you guys have have seen, or what are 160 00:11:37.070 --> 00:11:39.669 you telling to companies you're working with who are kind of struggling with like, 161 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.509 how do I think through what this change is going to look like and how 162 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:48.340 do I kind of pass through all the different possibilities that are coming my way 163 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:52.539 and really try to at least move in a direction to help myself better prepare? 164 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:56.580 Well, what I mean once certainly wouldn't like you're just basically saying. 165 00:11:56.700 --> 00:12:01.299 Is One is to look at it through the Lens of of how people's habits 166 00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:03.289 have had to change and what we've gotten used to, that we did used 167 00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:07.570 to be used to. And, and I agree with the an hundred percente 168 00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:13.009 on that, there is whatever was normal before is gone. And you know, 169 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:16.440 yeah, elements of that's going to is will come back. I mean, 170 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:18.840 human beings like to be together, we like to be around each other. 171 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.799 We have to, you know, we have to be able log each 172 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.679 other. I mean those those things are going to happen or and come back 173 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.669 in some way. But you know, the idea of meeting by video or 174 00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:33.389 the idea of having school by video or getting a doctor's appoint by video. 175 00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:39.470 Those are just small examples of ways that it's it's not going back to what 176 00:12:39.549 --> 00:12:43.509 it used to be. The the idea of a doctor visit has now changed 177 00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:50.139 permanently because millions of people have had to use these virtual doctor visits over tell 178 00:12:50.179 --> 00:12:52.100 a health or an APP or something like that, you know, when they 179 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:58.539 when they thought they had the coulde word Fluor something else. And once you 180 00:12:58.649 --> 00:13:01.649 find out that that actually works and that you can actually get some tell you 181 00:13:01.730 --> 00:13:05.929 out of that that doctor visit like that, why in the world would you 182 00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:09.529 make an appointment three weeks out for a place you have to go and sit 183 00:13:09.570 --> 00:13:13.559 in a wait even with a bunch of other sick people and waiting forty five 184 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:18.840 minutes because the doctor's running behind for ten minutes of his time, you know, 185 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.440 and most of that time is spent just entering data on a laptop to 186 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.750 fulfill the building cycle. I mean it, it was just a terrible experience 187 00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:33.149 before and people were realizing that, but something like this has completely hit the 188 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:37.190 accelerator for something, you know, for that kind of thing, and I 189 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:41.899 imagine that there's examples like this in sector after sector, business after business. 190 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:46.700 You just you know you, whatever company you're in, you have a particular 191 00:13:46.779 --> 00:13:50.259 lens or of particular insight and that sort of you know that audience, that 192 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:54.659 kind of customer, and you need to rethink what their problems are in this 193 00:13:54.809 --> 00:13:58.769 new light and understand that that something probably has changed in the way they do 194 00:13:58.889 --> 00:14:03.370 their business, and that's an opportunity. That's where the opportunity is. You 195 00:14:03.529 --> 00:14:09.129 both were using the term normal and I think it reminds me of the two 196 00:14:09.210 --> 00:14:13.600 thousand and eight recession when the new normal changed. Right, the new normal 197 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.559 wasn't just the recession and people had to rethink how they're operating their companies, 198 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.909 but all of a sudden around two thousand and eight we became a mobile workforce. 199 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:28.230 And when they say mobile, I don't mean work from home as much 200 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.870 as I mean who. When was the last time you had a company phone 201 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:35.429 on your desk with an extension? Right? It was probably about two thousand 202 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:41.700 and eight. And when there's a new normal, that provides opportunity and the 203 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:45.179 world I was in at the time, the demand generation world, was very 204 00:14:45.259 --> 00:14:50.620 heavy in outbound calling and prospecting right every inside sales team was down on the 205 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:54.169 phone all day long. And around two thousand and eight, two thousand and 206 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:58.529 ten, that change. People didn't have dust phones anymore. People had cell 207 00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:03.330 phones. They were reluctant to share that phone number with you, so you 208 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:07.559 had to start using email and linkedin in message. But look at today. 209 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:13.559 That new normal has transition to I'm completely comfortable getting a text message from a 210 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:20.120 salesperson that I've already engaged with. I'm completely comfortable with somebody calling my cell 211 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.230 phone and I don't say hey, where'd you get this number? I just 212 00:15:22.509 --> 00:15:28.750 it's my number name. And so you know, times of changed and you 213 00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:31.950 know it also provides opportunity in different ways. Look at talking about categories. 214 00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:37.860 Two Thousand and eight resulted in in Bubert, it resulted in Gush. Kevin, 215 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.620 you know the list better than I do because you wrote the recent article, 216 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:46.940 or interests like Yep. Then, though, all of this companies were 217 00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:50.970 started in the way of the two thousand and eight percession and many more. 218 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:54.730 That really does, you know, define new categories and now are part of 219 00:15:54.769 --> 00:16:00.129 our lives. So it certainly get it. You know some there's another aspect 220 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:03.169 of this too similarities. For Two Thousand and eight was a was a sudden 221 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.519 event, and the cold crisis is a sudden event, you know, when 222 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:14.360 things changed in a hurry. So if you think about all the venture capitalists 223 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:18.710 out there that raised these, these huge funds, and that money hasn't gone 224 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:22.269 away, it's still sitting in those in all of those those funds. And, 225 00:16:23.190 --> 00:16:26.070 like what happened in two thousand and eight, will they suddenly put a 226 00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:30.309 hit pause on investing in anything because they wanted to see what the you know, 227 00:16:30.429 --> 00:16:33.580 new role is going to shake out like? But they had all this 228 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:37.419 dry powder just waiting for the right ideas, whether it was a company, 229 00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:41.620 existing company that maybe shifted directions a little bit and give them a huge new 230 00:16:41.659 --> 00:16:45.139 round of funding, or some interpreter who comes in and says I have this 231 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:49.809 new idea. But the idea that that it's a bad time to either reposition 232 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:55.570 and go after funding or to start a company in the first place is wrong, 233 00:16:56.289 --> 00:17:00.529 because the funding is actually out there. These vcs are actually dying to 234 00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:04.039 use the money they have on the right idea. The reason they've hit pauses 235 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.519 not because there's no money to invest. The reason they've hit pause is because 236 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.519 they want to see how the new world is going to shake out and who's 237 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.319 going to come to them with ideas about how to exploit it. It's not 238 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:15.630 just on pause either. I don't know, Kevin, if you saw, 239 00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:21.549 but one of our clients in the UK just close the hundred million dollar around 240 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:25.710 yesterday. I mean the money is out there, it is moving, so 241 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:29.509 it's just a matter of if you can keep your head above water. Now 242 00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:33.700 is opportunity. Kevin and I, when we do our category design workshops, 243 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:37.980 it's usually a two to three week process and then ongoing advisory work, but 244 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:41.779 there's one week of heavy lifting where we were always in front of the executive 245 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:45.490 team. We'd fly to wherever they were, we'd sit down and work with 246 00:17:45.569 --> 00:17:51.210 them for a week facetoface, and with this whole situation you can't do that 247 00:17:51.369 --> 00:17:56.369 right now. So we had to rethink our business and last week we conducted 248 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:02.920 our first category design workshop through Zoom and we were reluctant to think that we 249 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:06.680 could pull it off because you have to see people's faces, you have to 250 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.640 feel the temperature in the room, you know, having a really good white 251 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.910 boards good for everyone to collaborate. But we went through the process and you 252 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:19.869 know, I found it basically as effective without the you know, the physical 253 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:23.029 presence. That was the one thing at lacked, that lack, but we 254 00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:26.259 got to the same result, which was which was valuable. Yeah, so 255 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:30.420 that kind of goes back to something that you guys were managtioning a moment to 256 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:33.980 go, which is said this idea of getting comfortable with changes in behavior. 257 00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:38.619 And I think there's like, if you look at this idea of like category 258 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:42.890 design opportunities at any given point in time, there's so many opportunities to design 259 00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:48.529 new categories. And you guys mentioned two things that I think accelerate that and 260 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:52.170 multiply that number. So one is this idea of like changing to a new 261 00:18:52.329 --> 00:18:56.279 normal and the other is this idea of like some doing something different, like 262 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.880 the accelerating the acceptance of that different behaviors. So like what you were mentioning, 263 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.400 Mike, with doing workshops on Zoom, and right now we're seeing both 264 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:08.200 of those happen, like so much, so many changes in our day to 265 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:14.109 day are creating a new normal where they're changing with they're forcing these changes in 266 00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:18.390 behavior and people are recognizing that some of these different ways of doing things are 267 00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:22.750 not really all that bad and in some cases they may even be better than 268 00:19:22.829 --> 00:19:25.980 the thing they did in the past. It just didn't have a chance to 269 00:19:26.019 --> 00:19:30.940 see that. And so it sounds like you in many ways this. You 270 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:33.619 don't want to say anything like this is a good time, right, because 271 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:36.700 there's so much, you know, suffering, this going on. But for 272 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:40.410 for someone who wants to, you know, look at it as a time 273 00:19:40.650 --> 00:19:44.170 of opportunity, I would. I think that's an appropriate way to look at 274 00:19:44.170 --> 00:19:45.650 it. What do you guys think? Well, yeah, I mean, 275 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:51.089 and I actually would flip that on its head too and say that that sticking 276 00:19:51.569 --> 00:19:53.880 one hundred percent to what you did before and the way you did it is 277 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:00.359 also probably as the wrongheaded way to look at this. I mean, certainly 278 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.079 some companies will find you need to at least look at what you do and 279 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:10.150 through this lens and understand whether you should sit tight or not. But yeah, 280 00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:14.750 I mean not taking advantage of change is I mean that's something you should 281 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:15.829 be doing when you're you know, when you're in business. I mean that's 282 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:19.990 where they opportunities lie. There was a one. It just just since we're 283 00:20:21.029 --> 00:20:23.700 here. I mean your listeners might probably just listening to us on audio but 284 00:20:25.019 --> 00:20:27.180 I'll tell them with that were as we're doing this interview, we're all on 285 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:32.619 videos. I mean here's like a sort of really sort of simple example that 286 00:20:32.859 --> 00:20:37.529 some that started to notice that smart interior designers, whose business is pretty much 287 00:20:37.970 --> 00:20:45.130 died with covid have realized that all these people are doing, especially like executives 288 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:48.930 it want to present a certain are doing these these zoom meetings now from a 289 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.119 face that looks like it's their wash, you know, room or something, 290 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:59.000 and so they're starting to market a new service of designing a zoo ready space 291 00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:02.640 that makes you look like you project the energy you want to project. I 292 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.269 mean, that's a that's a great little example of understanding that there's changes in 293 00:21:07.309 --> 00:21:11.150 our behavior that are driving new needs or new kinds of problems to be solved 294 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:14.710 and and and recognizing that and going after it. I think one of the 295 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:19.099 most unique person and a company that has to adapt right now will too, 296 00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:25.940 are the sales and marketing. Sales because there's no more knocking on a door 297 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:30.539 and having face to face meetings, but marketing more so. I saw a 298 00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:37.369 report recently that twenty two percent of most marketing budgets are live events, and 299 00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:41.410 it was a much higher number than I thought. And I've never been a 300 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:48.000 lover of events and you know all of my different CMO roles, events usually 301 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.799 got downplayed. I did the least possible I could to survive. But now 302 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:59.240 you've got companies that spent hundreds and, you know, couple of million dollars 303 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:04.710 on being a dream force or Ursa or self by southwest. They're looking at 304 00:22:04.789 --> 00:22:08.789 this huge chunk of budget line item that they don't know what to do with. 305 00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:12.390 Or, you know, the CFO says, well, we're clawing that 306 00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:18.380 back for security for the company. Let's time for the CMOS to say, 307 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:22.019 well, club back half of it and let us relocate the other half. 308 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:26.539 Because what do events produce for you? Two things, well, three, 309 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:33.569 branding, lead generation and business development with analysts and other influencers in your market. 310 00:22:33.049 --> 00:22:37.569 But the biggest loss right now are the leads. And there's so many 311 00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:41.690 other sources out there. All you have to do is readjust how you think. 312 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:45.519 You know trade shows are great. Everybody loves the events and you know 313 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.079 getting together with your team and you know, talking to eat, talking to 314 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:53.400 competitors even. But the end result is when a cmos done an event, 315 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.599 what do they want to know, how many leads did we get? We'll 316 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:02.710 just reallocate your budget. Whey, go find other sources content syndication. You 317 00:23:02.829 --> 00:23:06.349 know, email marketing companies that can help you out. You know, ramp 318 00:23:06.390 --> 00:23:10.869 up, ramp up your outbound telemarketing efforts, anything you can do to shift 319 00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:15.740 that energy, because I think right now there's going to be pent up demand 320 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:19.619 when this is all over. And if you didn't spend the time hunkered down 321 00:23:19.700 --> 00:23:25.380 in quarantine building up the top of the funnel, you know you've lost an 322 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:30.609 opportunity, just like, you know, taking the opportunity as a CEO to 323 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:34.369 rethink your company strategy and instead of, as Christopher locket, one of the 324 00:23:34.410 --> 00:23:41.289 CO authors, will play bigger talks about peanut butter marketing right or getting stuck 325 00:23:41.369 --> 00:23:45.519 in the better trap. I'm bigger, better and brighter than my competition. 326 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.640 I'm the Shiny Unicorn. Well, if two people are saying they're better, 327 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:55.240 one of you is lying, which is another quote from Christopher. And so 328 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.789 it's time to figure out why you're different. And that's what category designs all 329 00:23:57.789 --> 00:24:03.910 about. Figure out why you're different, lead with the problem and talk to 330 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:08.630 people emotionally instead of in specifications, and you know, gigabytes and MIPS and 331 00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:12.220 all that. Nobody cares. They'll look at that in the end. The 332 00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:17.299 reality is, can you solve a problem that they don't know they have, 333 00:24:18.019 --> 00:24:21.059 or can you solve a problem that they know they have and they didn't know 334 00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:25.369 there was a solution? Those are categories. Yeah, yeah, and I 335 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:29.009 don't normally like to spend a ton of time talking about you know what I 336 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:33.250 do. You know, in my own worker abound companies, but we did 337 00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:37.690 something at bomb on that was pretty relevant to what you just described. My 338 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:44.359 so we were actually pretty big investor in trade shows last year and we they 339 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.480 had this was before I joined, but they had been doing them long enough 340 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:49.599 and had a pretty clear our lie on this trade choosing it, and they 341 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:53.829 were a pretty decent source of revenue for us. And a lot of that 342 00:24:53.869 --> 00:24:57.109 has to do with some of the industries that were we're focused on. They 343 00:24:57.269 --> 00:25:02.990 very, very heavily attend some of this trade shows. But we had planned 344 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:06.470 to cut back anyway. And then, when you know, with Covid we 345 00:25:06.589 --> 00:25:11.859 cut back obviously, you know, completely and one of the things we're thinking 346 00:25:11.859 --> 00:25:14.700 of was, like you know, you talked about both of you were talking 347 00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:18.859 about identifying new problems that didn't exist before. So one that what we saw 348 00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:22.329 was that all these teachers were having to teach remotely for the first time ever. 349 00:25:23.049 --> 00:25:26.250 And, you know, a lot of us have kids who are in 350 00:25:26.289 --> 00:25:27.809 school or, you know, we have spouses or friends who are teachers. 351 00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:33.849 So that problem was really acute. And we've always had kind of a mission 352 00:25:33.890 --> 00:25:37.640 of like trying to well, it's called rehumanize the world, but it's it's 353 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.720 just idea of like participating and making it better in a way that you can. 354 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.319 And we knew that our product was something that could that could help these 355 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.359 teachers when they're having to teach remotely, especially when they can't be on a 356 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.269 live zoom call, and so we didn't we've never had a free product that 357 00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:56.630 we built a free, you know, way to get our product for free, 358 00:25:56.069 --> 00:25:59.390 and just through word of mouth and our customers, we were able to 359 00:25:59.430 --> 00:26:03.380 get thousands, literally thousands, of teachers to start using our platform and start 360 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:07.779 sending hundreds and thousands of videos in less than a week. We like, 361 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:11.700 you know, a z e just putting that together and, you know, 362 00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:14.180 I'm not sure where that's going to lead exactly. We'd like to think that, 363 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:17.140 you know, teachers are married to maybe some business people who will learn 364 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:21.089 about it and if that's a bonus, you know, great. But that 365 00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:22.809 was an area because, you know, we didn't have so much time and 366 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.690 money and effort invest in the trade shows, we had a little bit of 367 00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:30.289 bandwidth to think through this area of like hey, here's here's a group of 368 00:26:30.329 --> 00:26:33.799 people that are experiencing a new problem, here's a solution we have and if 369 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.839 we just reframe it a little bit and tweak some things about it, we 370 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.599 can offer it to them and add some value and and nothing that we build 371 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:45.039 a new category through that action. But I think that way of thinking is 372 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.589 the kind of thing that, you know, I like to see companies do 373 00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.349 in this type of situation. Yeah, exactly, that's the guys are perfectly 374 00:26:52.390 --> 00:26:56.069 yeah, I think one of the keys to what you said is the way 375 00:26:56.150 --> 00:27:00.349 you said it was I'm not sure it's a category, but I'm reinforcing the 376 00:27:00.470 --> 00:27:03.619 category or something to that nature, or at least that's what I heard. 377 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:10.339 I I think the word reinforcement is huge right now. If you think you've 378 00:27:10.420 --> 00:27:12.900 had a category and you you do talk about it a little bit, but 379 00:27:14.259 --> 00:27:18.730 you're not category forward. You know it's sort of on the sidelines. Now's 380 00:27:18.809 --> 00:27:22.569 the time to say, you know, how can I make it the start 381 00:27:22.609 --> 00:27:26.289 of the show? Right? I go to so many websites and all I 382 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.970 see is, you know, where the first to introduce blah, blah blah, 383 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.640 and we're bigger, better and brighter and where the shine needs uniform and 384 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.200 you know, I look at those websites and I move on. I'm not 385 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.759 interested. But when I look at a website where I clearly sense and feel 386 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:48.630 the point of view that they're presenting is unique, that's engaging and it gets 387 00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:52.549 me to scroll and to look at more. So you know, category design 388 00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:55.950 isn't something you have to start on day one and finish, you know, 389 00:27:56.109 --> 00:28:02.180 twenty days later. Category designs an ongoing discipline of how to do business and 390 00:28:02.539 --> 00:28:06.500 it takes years to build a category. You know, and like the book 391 00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:11.380 shows, they studied a bunch of startups and you know the averages six to 392 00:28:11.539 --> 00:28:15.369 ten years to get a fully established category and win that. Yeah, yeah, 393 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:18.049 that's right. And you know it's interesting. A lot of this companies 394 00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:22.849 you mentioned from the two thousand and eight crisis. Kevin and Mike at the 395 00:28:22.930 --> 00:28:27.240 time, like they weren't big names, they were I was actually surprised. 396 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.920 I didn't think that some of it had actually been around that long, and 397 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.960 I think that's just because it took a little bit of time to really that's 398 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.720 really become commonplace. But going back to that time period, what are there 399 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:45.309 lessons that you took from going through that time that you would love for people 400 00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:48.950 to remember and and kind of take advantage of today? HMM, I mean, 401 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:52.630 I think we're I think a lot of them are. Once we have 402 00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:56.819 have talked about is that, first of all, is it's important to have 403 00:28:56.900 --> 00:28:59.700 the mindset that this is is it. Know, it's important to do all 404 00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:03.900 the right things that to be safe and keep the company afloat and all those 405 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.140 kinds of things, as Mike said, yeah, do those things to make 406 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:11.890 sure you're going to be around if you're already it did existing company. But 407 00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:15.650 but this is not a time to think that. You know, you just 408 00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:18.490 have to sit around a wait for normal to return so you get back to 409 00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:22.250 business. It's just a it's a giant opportunity. You can rethink what you 410 00:29:22.369 --> 00:29:27.359 do, what your customers need. You know what new problems are being created. 411 00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:33.279 I mean there's there's there's a enormous there's enormous changes of foot here that 412 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:38.349 you have second, third, fourth order of impact that you know is we 413 00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:42.069 can't even imagine. I mean, look, as we started out, before 414 00:29:42.109 --> 00:29:48.670 we actually started recording the podcast, talking about that, I left my apartment 415 00:29:48.710 --> 00:29:52.140 in New York to ride the south somewhere else, and I mean hundreds of 416 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:57.140 thousands or maybe millions of people in New York City and other big cities have 417 00:29:57.259 --> 00:30:00.539 done the same and a lot of them are rethinking whether they want to be 418 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:06.259 in the city or not. Now that's a huge giant demographic shift in this 419 00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:10.049 country if that's what's going to happen. And and the second, third, 420 00:30:10.210 --> 00:30:12.809 fourth order of bag to shifts that are going to happen because of that are 421 00:30:14.170 --> 00:30:21.009 just unbelievable. So if you're running a company or thinking of starting a company 422 00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:25.039 and have ideas, just to sit down and and try to think through those 423 00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.359 things in the realm of what you do or what you want to build and 424 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.319 and what you know is just like an enormously valuable exercise. Now and looks 425 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.109 for those new green spaces that are that are going to open up, because 426 00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:40.309 that's where they that's where the new great companies are going to be be created. 427 00:30:40.829 --> 00:30:44.990 I mean we have a something that we use as a little bit kind 428 00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:52.220 of like a an equation for category design, and we say it's innovation plus 429 00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:57.460 context plus missing equals a new category. So innovation plans. It was innovator 430 00:30:57.500 --> 00:31:03.569 organization. Put let's context plus missing plus missing. Okay, yeah, so 431 00:31:03.690 --> 00:31:07.609 let's think of innovation is I've got, I've got some invention or something that 432 00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:11.890 I can create or build its new and different or different way of doing things. 433 00:31:11.289 --> 00:31:15.130 But that by itself, I mean that's that. That itself is the 434 00:31:15.410 --> 00:31:18.519 help build it if they will come. Mentality. Right. So sometimes that 435 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.960 work, sometimes it doesn't. But context is really important. Context is what 436 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.440 else is happening in the world, in technology, in the world that makes 437 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:33.109 this innovation have a place of importance. Now, if you're talking about the 438 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:36.829 two thousand and eight crisis, financial crisis, where do we started? So 439 00:31:37.549 --> 00:31:41.430 two thousand and seven when the IPHONE was introduced and there was there was a 440 00:31:41.910 --> 00:31:48.819 new ecosystem that was being created around applications and GPS and phones and the way 441 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:52.339 people wanted to live their lives. And so who were the innervator of Uber 442 00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:57.859 of being able to call a car was made possible by the context of all 443 00:31:57.859 --> 00:32:01.890 of these other things that were in place and happening at the time. And 444 00:32:02.170 --> 00:32:07.369 so the you so, the innovation plus the context, and then the missing 445 00:32:07.450 --> 00:32:13.170 piece is recognizing something that doesn't exist that people need or want, and that's 446 00:32:13.170 --> 00:32:15.359 where brand new category APPS and so an UVER's case it was, you know, 447 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:21.279 the innovation plus the context of the Times in the platforms that were coming 448 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.279 out, but then recognizing that there was this this missing piece. And to 449 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.029 get that, I didn't we talked before about identifying a problem people didn't really 450 00:32:30.069 --> 00:32:34.869 know they had, explaining to people essentially that that having to go out on 451 00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:37.630 the street and stand in traffic and waves to try to get a ride somewhere 452 00:32:38.309 --> 00:32:42.990 is actually, you know, ancient and stupid way to do it, that 453 00:32:43.789 --> 00:32:46.980 now we've got this that nobody thought of that as a problem before, but 454 00:32:47.059 --> 00:32:51.619 we were said, you know what, that is actually a problem and there's 455 00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:54.299 a better way to do it by using this technology. That was the missing 456 00:32:54.339 --> 00:32:58.809 they spotted. And you put all those things together and now you've got something 457 00:32:58.930 --> 00:33:02.250 that that is just, you know, ready to to take off because people 458 00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:06.089 are going to recognize that it's that it fits with what they know, because 459 00:33:06.130 --> 00:33:08.609 the context is there it solves a probably didn't know they had or they didn't 460 00:33:08.609 --> 00:33:12.849 know they could solve that way before, and then then they can lash onto 461 00:33:12.849 --> 00:33:15.759 the innovation. So you know all of those things are are wide open right 462 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:22.240 now and and you know there's going to be some hundred billion dollar companies come 463 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.279 out of it. But I was thinking there Kevin, one of the clients 464 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:30.029 that we worked with, one of the incubator clients. They started a company 465 00:33:30.269 --> 00:33:36.589 three years ago that uses the fact that Bluetooth Communicates to other Bluetooth devices without 466 00:33:36.630 --> 00:33:40.579 ever connecting. So as long as you're near a bluetooth receiver, you know 467 00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:45.980 it exists and they actually share a little bit of identification information that you know. 468 00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:49.779 It's random, but here's the name of my network, for instance, 469 00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:52.500 and they were using it for supply chain tracking. You know, when a 470 00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:58.529 box moves from point a to point B and goes past somebody's phone or sensor, 471 00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:02.009 they could track it and they built this network around the world. It's 472 00:34:02.089 --> 00:34:10.199 blockchain based for for tracking supply chain and it's completely noninvasive because the Bluetooth talks 473 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.760 anonymously to each other. But they turned around when this covid thing started and 474 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:21.400 they saw an article about contact tracing, knowing who you've been involved with right 475 00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:23.869 and if they've been exposed to covid. You need to know that you've been 476 00:34:23.909 --> 00:34:28.550 exposed. But how do you do that with strangers? If I go to 477 00:34:28.630 --> 00:34:32.070 the supermarket and stood next to somebody that had covid, there's no way the 478 00:34:32.190 --> 00:34:37.309 health department can come tell me, hey, you've been exposed. So they 479 00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:44.900 expanded it to being able to do contact tracing with everybody's phone, and then 480 00:34:44.980 --> 00:34:47.619 Google and apple announced they're going to do it. Hopefully they know about this 481 00:34:47.780 --> 00:34:52.300 other company that we work with and because they've already got millions and millions of 482 00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:57.690 points. But that's a totally new application and way of thinking. What if 483 00:34:57.730 --> 00:35:00.530 we could all walk around for the rest of our lives and be told you 484 00:35:00.570 --> 00:35:06.889 were just exposed to something without ever having to ask somebody, Hey, before 485 00:35:06.929 --> 00:35:09.000 I shake your hand, do you have covid? Right your phone vibrates and 486 00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:14.880 says somebody in the room is exposed right now. kind of very cool ways 487 00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:19.400 to use technology an opportunity to build categories. Yeah, it's cool how it 488 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:25.389 seems like it's the same innovation, but the context was changed into missing was 489 00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:30.750 twist change in that equation and so it led to something new. So yeah, 490 00:35:30.150 --> 00:35:34.030 so we're almost out of time. But so I want to ask one 491 00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:37.780 question of each of you guys. And look, it comes from frozen to 492 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:42.460 you guys. Seen that and my kids made me watch it. There's this 493 00:35:42.579 --> 00:35:45.780 thing they say over and over in the movie and I just I've just noticed 494 00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:49.340 other people saying it more since then. It's like it's idea, like doing 495 00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:52.610 the next right thing, and so if somebody's listening, they're thinking through. 496 00:35:53.489 --> 00:35:57.369 You know, how do I? How do I think through this situation? 497 00:35:57.809 --> 00:36:00.250 How do I think through my category or a new category? What's the next 498 00:36:00.409 --> 00:36:07.280 right thing that they should go do next? After listening to this podcastle's funny 499 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.880 of a very old friend of mine use that phrase to be probably twenty years 500 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:13.960 ago, and it's always stuck in my head. So I didn't know it 501 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.599 was part of resensive, but it's what I always thought it was actually a 502 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:23.750 really smart concept. Well, there's no question the first right thing has to 503 00:36:23.829 --> 00:36:28.190 do with the safety of your employees, in the safety of your company. 504 00:36:28.510 --> 00:36:31.349 So let's assume that you've done the first right thing. The next right thing 505 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:37.500 is to look out at the horizon and understand the Times of change and get 506 00:36:37.539 --> 00:36:43.539 your leadership team around a table and brainstorm and, you know, think in 507 00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:46.250 terms of I mean I could, the plug for the book would be breed, 508 00:36:46.289 --> 00:36:50.809 cutter, replay bigger. First do your cut. Your team around a 509 00:36:50.889 --> 00:36:54.889 table, understand that times have changed and that there's going to be a normous 510 00:36:54.889 --> 00:36:58.610 new opportunities and brainstorm that, a lot of it, and look for that 511 00:36:58.730 --> 00:37:01.119 new category, look for that new missing and see what the you know what 512 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:05.400 the next opportunity is for you. You don't have to have this just be 513 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:07.320 a time of funkering down. This should be a time of building. Like 514 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:09.800 you have anything to add to that? Yeah, I'll get a little bit 515 00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:15.360 more. I'll get away from the business aspect a little bit because Kevin kind 516 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:19.550 of nailed what I would have said. But I'm doing something really interesting. 517 00:37:20.349 --> 00:37:24.070 I started about three or four weeks ago. Every day I call one personal 518 00:37:24.110 --> 00:37:29.070 contact I haven't talked to in a while and every day I call one business 519 00:37:29.150 --> 00:37:32.500 contact I haven't talked to in a while and completely random. I'm literally just 520 00:37:32.619 --> 00:37:37.860 going down my unders book alphabetically. I'm on I think I'm on J or 521 00:37:37.900 --> 00:37:43.940 K now, and those phone calls are so enlightening number one, the personal 522 00:37:44.059 --> 00:37:47.010 ones. Resurrect conversations that I should I had years ago. It makes me 523 00:37:47.050 --> 00:37:50.849 feel good. It's like when I work out and I got some adrenaline going, 524 00:37:51.369 --> 00:37:53.010 you know, you walk away from those calls, you always feel feel 525 00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:57.530 great, and we need humanity right now. You know, you need that. 526 00:37:58.369 --> 00:38:01.800 Number two, the business aspect. I'm making these phone calls and I'm 527 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:06.599 talking people I talked to three years ago when the book first came out, 528 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.280 and you know how you doing great. You still thinking about your category? 529 00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:14.389 Well, yeah, and now we're, you know, we're kind of like 530 00:38:14.909 --> 00:38:17.389 looking at the wall, wondering what we're going to do tomorrow, and we 531 00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:24.670 had this exact conversation we're having now that it's an opportunistic time and again that 532 00:38:24.869 --> 00:38:29.219 you know, you got to humanity aspect. You're reaching out people that need 533 00:38:29.260 --> 00:38:31.780 to be reached out to. I go crazy by four o'clock every day. 534 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:35.860 I'm ready to get out of this house and I'm ready to talk to people. 535 00:38:36.460 --> 00:38:39.139 But it's also opening up new opportunities that were dormant for three years, 536 00:38:39.739 --> 00:38:44.889 and so, I mean it's a minor recommendation, but you know, we 537 00:38:45.010 --> 00:38:49.289 used to bump into people, we used to you know walk by them in 538 00:38:49.329 --> 00:38:52.809 the hallways and we don't anymore. So take advantage of the opportunity. If 539 00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:57.880 my granddaughter can set up a zoom call, it's seven years old. Anybody 540 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.679 can. It's step. So reach out me personal and then don't be afraid 541 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:07.039 to bring the stoomen and see what's next. Good thoughts to end with giving 542 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:09.230 my I if someone wants to get in touch with you guys and just learn 543 00:39:09.309 --> 00:39:13.230 more about this idea, what's the best way for them to do that? 544 00:39:13.789 --> 00:39:20.710 Category Design Advisorscom, as our website and our emails. Mike at Category Design 545 00:39:20.710 --> 00:39:25.900 Advisorscom and Kevin at Category Design Advisorscom. Good deal. Hey, thanks so 546 00:39:27.099 --> 00:39:30.340 much for being with me today. I learned a a ton from you guys. 547 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:31.579 As I expected, it was a real pleasure. Thanks for all that 548 00:39:31.659 --> 00:39:37.019 you shared right time. Thanks for having US figure okay. Well, that 549 00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:42.329 reps up this episode of the Category Creation Series. I hope you enjoyed it 550 00:39:42.530 --> 00:39:45.329 and I hope that this episode helped you in some small way to become a 551 00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:47.849 better marketer. Now, if you want to get in touch with me, 552 00:39:49.050 --> 00:39:52.639 you can just head to John Dot Marketing in your browser or, of course, 553 00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:57.239 you can find me on Linkedin. Thanks for listening. I'll see you 554 00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:04.679 next time. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, 555 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:07.550 but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're 556 00:40:07.550 --> 00:40:10.469 trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. 557 00:40:10.909 --> 00:40:15.590 If you leave a review for be tob growth and apple podcasts and email me 558 00:40:15.670 --> 00:40:19.909 a screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you 559 00:40:19.989 --> 00:40:22.699 a signed copy of my new book, content based networking, how to instantly 560 00:40:22.780 --> 00:40:27.059 connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, you get 561 00:40:27.099 --> 00:40:28.539 a free book. We both win.