Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to another behind the curtain
episode of BB Growth. My name is
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James and I'm joined today with the
man, the myth, the legend himself,
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Logan. Lyles Logan, what was
the first concert you ever went to?
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Was a reliant key concert? I
don't know, but a lot of
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people out there are probably not going
to know who were lying in the S
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S Christian Kid Baby S Christian punk
rock is kind of so take that for
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what it is. Yes, so, Logan, today we're going to be
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talking about a question that you've actually
got twice in the last couple weeks,
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I think, and the question is
should I hire an outside host to host
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my podcast? So obviously we produce
a bunch of podcasts for a bunch of
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different companies and this question gets asked
and we've got a pretty distinct point of
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view on it. We've got some
customers that do hire an outside host to
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host their show. The bulk of
our customers we actually advocate for for hosting
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your own show, and we've actually
got five different reasons why we think you
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should host your own show. Again, we've got customers that do it the
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other way and they're still meeting the
objectives that they're wanting to meet with their
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show. So this is not by
any means a you know, if you
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have an outside host you're doing it
wrong. It's just we've, you know,
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over the years we've we've developed a
point of view around really five of
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the benefits of hosting it yourself instead
of instead of having someone from the outside
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host your show. Actually, I
got I actually got this question twice within
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the last two or three days,
so within this week and within just a
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couple of days, and the email
exchange with one potential customer was exactly that,
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like lay out the pros and cons
for me and as I started to
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do it in the email, was
like wow, you know, it helped
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me. It's something that we've thought
about, we've talked about internally, but
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we've never really said, all right, here's our stance and here's here's the
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pros and cons very definitively. So
I was just like man, we've got
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to we've got to share this with
with folks. And you know, there
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can be some pros of having an
outside host. Like you mentioned, we
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have a few customers where we actually
provide the host, but I think that
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they do they do some things to
to deal with that situation and still see
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as much of the benefits as they
can. However, we just think that
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the benefits outweigh the negatives when you
have one or multiple people from your team
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being the host, not hiring an
outside host or a professional speaker to be
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your hopes. Now we've we've got
outside host on be to be growth.
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We are not paying any of those
outside hosts. Actually there are some cases
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where people pay us to be a
host of our show, and so the
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the leverage that you have when you
own the show is real. People will
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even you know, as you grow
your audience, you can have the opportunity
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for people to pay you to access
your audience in the form of being a
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host, and that's really a business
model that I don't see anybody else doing.
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I think we're really pioneering that business
model, but I think it's going
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to work. I know it's going
to work because we've got money coming into
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our account every month because of it. So I think a combination of having
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an outside host and internal host can
be beneficial. One the added revenue from
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host paying you to host your show, but also the added influence. So
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when you've got an outside person,
we've got some outside folks that are influencers
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in their space, and so by
them hosting our show and talking about it
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on social and talking about it to
their email list, that's giving exposure to
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our show that it wouldn't have otherwise
had. So let's dive in Logan too,
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to the five benefits that you kind
of outlined in that email that you
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were sending in the last couple days. I don't know if this is necessarily
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a benefit or a con to having
an outside host or paying for an outside
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host to come in and host your
show, but it's the added cost.
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Talk to us about that. Yeah, so I think we you did a
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good job. They're of kind of
putting some caveats of where someone might say,
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well, you guys have outside hooks
on on BB growth. What we're
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specifically saying is, all right,
you don't have a podcast yet, you're
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getting ready to start a podcast in
your like. Should it be our CEO?
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Should it be someone in marketing?
Should it be the internal subject matter
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expert, like our CHR Oh,
if we sell to hr or our CTEO,
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if we sell to it and and
product? But what we're saying here
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is all right, if you are
looking at, you know, either the
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internal cost or the external cost of
hiring an agency like ours to help you
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with your podcast. There's money that
goes into planning, there's money that goes
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into post production, there's money that
goes into content repurposing, in putting ads
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been behind that content, all those
sorts of things. And when you kind
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of stack that up and then you
layer on all right, we've got to
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pay a premium for a killer host
with radio experience something like that, I
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just think that it's going to add
to your cost so much that, especially
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in the early days, it's going
to be tougher and tougher to see in
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oury. So I just don't see
a big justification for needing to spend there.
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I would rather get internal folks involved, not add the cost there and
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have more money to spend on the
content repurposing, getting more juice for the
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squeeze, have more money to spend
on the AD budget, putting paid ads
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behind the show because, again,
I've been saying this offline a ton,
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so many people are running ads for
their product. They're not running ads for
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their show. They're not running ads, like Chris Walker says all the time,
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just to drive people to that educational
content. So there's some green field
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opportunity there. So I would say, as you're working with budgets where CFOs
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or being very are scrutinizing those marketing
budgets more than ever this year, be
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very choosy about out where you spend
when it comes to your podcast and I
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just think the hiring an external host
should be lower on the list than some
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of the other things. Yeah,
and and so one of the things that
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you were mentioning to me offline Logan
is that the reason that are considering bringing
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in and outside host this because they
feel like they would be a burden or
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they would feel like they're there.
Existing team doesn't have the bandwidth to do
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it and so by asking someone on
the team to host the show, that's
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just a massive ask. But in
reality we've actually found that, you know,
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in the second benefit that we're going
to talk about here, we've actually
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found that when you ask somebody internally
to host your show, it oftentimes is
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a huge value add for that person. It's professional development, it's communicating to
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that person that you that you trust
them, that you want them to be
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the voice. And if you're doing
video, which we think you should be
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face of your brand and the the
other piece to it is we think you
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should actually have multiple internal people that
are hosting different series of your show.
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Again, that's another point of view
that we've developed over the years, that
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the more content you can produce,
the better it's going to differentiate your show.
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It's going to give you more opportunities
to educate your potential customers. If
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you're just doing a monthly episode,
then you have one shot a month at
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hoping that your listeners are going to
resonate with whatever topic it is that you're
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talking about. If you're doing three
episodes a week, well, you've obviously
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just increased your opportunity to be a
trusting voice that is educating your ideal customer.
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And so by having multiple people even
in between, we have a lot
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of customers that are like, well, we could do bi weekly and okay,
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every two weeks, they're hearing from
us, but what if they see
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a headline that they don't really doesn't
really resonate with them and they skip over
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that? Now it's a month,
a month, before they've heard from you,
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and if two thousand and twenty has
taught us anything, a month is
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a freaking long time exactly. So
consider the fact that you could actually use
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this as an opportunity to bless somebody
or add value to somebody on your team
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by asking them to close the show. And if you're worried about bandwidth,
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ask multiple people on your team that
you think are really sharp and whether it's
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doing different series on your show or
whether you all you know, whether whatever
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structure you want to figure out there
is on you to determine. But I
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think it can add a lot of
value to somebody. I know that we've
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had folks on our team that get
really excited about the opportunity to host some
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of our behind the curtains episodes,
to host some of our customers episode Zeros,
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and so look at it as that, you know, professional development opportunity.
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If it's obviously if it's your CEO, it's not. I don't think
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that person is really caring too much
about professional development in that way because they
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probably do this sort of thing a
lot. But that CEO does, does
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care about personal brand. They get
a lot about personal brand right and so
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I mean we've heard from from folks
all over the place that say, if
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you say the word personal brand,
my my CEO's ears perk up right,
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and so very similarly to the way
that we advocate for asking people to be
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guests on your podcast. When your
show's not well established and you don't have
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tons of stats to put in front
of them saying we have this many listeners
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and we've been ranked by this and
that, you change the ask. You
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say this is the value to you. Look, we're going to promote this
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on linkedin. We're going to create
an episode graphic with your face on it
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and you're going to be able to
share that with your linkedin network. And,
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by the way, this show is
just for people like you, sharing
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what they're dealing with, how they're
coming up with creative solutions to the challenges
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that they're facing right now. So
when you when you make that sort of
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ask to the podcast guest, you
get more yeses. Yeah, take that
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same sort of approach going internally to
ask people to be a host of the
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the podcast. Hey, this isn't
something we're just we're just asking. It's
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not just a withdrawal. Obviously you
don't say these words, but in the
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way you communicate it you say,
look, you would be a great voice
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for for our podcast. You your
you're sharp, you could ask great questions,
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you know the industry, you have
the availability, you know and kind
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of like even if you go to
someone else and in marketing or PR different
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function, Hey, we're going to
have the CEO on, but they're not
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going to have the bandwidth to to
do every single episode, you would be
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great as well. Now all of
a sudden they're like, Oh, you
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thought of me, right with the
CEO. Okay, this is this is
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kind of cool. And show them
how you'll be able to help build their
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personal brand. Now, that takes
a if you're not there in the mindset
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shift that personal brands are important.
That's actually going to be our point here
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coming up in just a second.
But so you're going to have to make
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that shift. But changing the ask
and showing hey, this is going to
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be valuable to the people who are
participating, you're probably not going to have
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that road block that you think you
are that's going to make you go and
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hire an outside host. Yeah,
there's third reason that we're going to talk
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about. Why it's very strategic for
you to have a host internally or someone
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someone from your team that is hosting
the show is that the thought leadership created
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from the podcast doesn't necessarily get associated
with a human at your company, and
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that's that's a really big deal.
I mean, just to your point,
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Logan, on personal brand, you
have the opportunity to build a personal brand,
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to build thought leadership for a human
or multiple humans at your company,
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and we all know at this.
I think it's pretty common knowledge to believe
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that it's way easier to trust to
human than it is to trust a logo.
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Talk to us about this. Yeah, man, this is something we've
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been preaching for the last year or
two and man, it really was driven
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home a week or two ago when
one of our new good linkedin friends,
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Matthew, who's the director of content
marketing over at gravy and now a new
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customer. They signed up with us
and the day after they signed up for
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to have US help with the launch
in the production of their podcast, he
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posted on Linkedin. I think the
opening line was like, let me reverse
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engineer my recent buying process for you, and he walked through how the fact
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that he was seeing my content on
Linkedin, your content on Linkedin. Dan
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Sanchez, our director of audience growth
who's now a cohost of the show,
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he was in an engagement group with
a few of US already on Linkedin and
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he said, you know, I
see the not only the content that sweetfish
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has been putting out, but I
feel like I know these guys over here
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on the team and my comfort level
with sweet fish versus another podcast production company
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that I haven't seen on Linkedin.
I don't really know the team other than
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Hey, I hopped on a sales
call and I met somebody on a zoom
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call first time seeing their face.
There was a big impact to that buying
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decision. This isn't just something we're
kind of spouting off and saying people can't
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connect with people more than logos.
We you know, because it fits into
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our strategy of podcasting. It literally
drove business for us here within the last
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couple of weeks and not only had, but matthew felt so, so compelled
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that he shared that on Linkedin and
tons of engagement on that pose. And
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so I think that that drives the
point home that people connect with people more
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than logos. They trust people more
than than logos. It's part of the
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reason why personal profile still over index
compared to company pages on Linkedin. I
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think it's less about the algorithm.
I think it's less about the way people
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are using those profiles and more about
the fact that when I see a comment
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from my brand on Linkedin, I'm
like WHO's behind this? Right? And
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you know, I know that there
have been some brands with success on platforms
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like, like twitter, but you
look at twitter's decline and there are a
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lot of faceless, nameless accounts out
there that it's like who am I really
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engaging with, whereas Linkedin, you
know the person, you see, you
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get to know them, even if
it's just by their profile picture. That
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might be three, three years out
of day. You know, I know
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Steve Watt, I know ethanviewed,
I know these people that are regularly engaging
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with my content and and knee with
theirs. And so by giving people the
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opportunity to connect with at least one
person, if not multiple people, who
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are cohost of your podcast, you're
leaning into this reality of the way that
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people make buying decisions and, yes, even make buying decisions in b tob
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as we just saw with with Matthews
sharing of his story at gravy. Yeah,
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I love it. So the connection
that you are listeners and people that
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engage with that repurpose content on Linkedin, that that human connection is a real,
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real benefit of having someone internally host
your show. The next piece that
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we're going to talk about is more
around the thought leadership side of what I
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was referring to earlier. Talk to
us about that Logan. Yeah, it's
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interesting to me when I really think
about this. If you have your own
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podcast, you're directing the content but
you're not providing the host or the multiple
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cohost as with people from your team. There's an ad spot for your company
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on the show, but other than
getting to direct the content, it's more
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just like sponsoring or advertising on a
podcast. And so to me, to
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spend all this money and all this
effort and all this focus to launch your
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own podcast, to sustain your own
podcast and try to grow that audience just
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to be a sponsor. I mean
you could, you could spend that money
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to get that sort of result.
I think more wisely and go to a
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company like right side up that focuses
on podcast advertising and connecting you with existing
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podcasts that have an audience that fits
your your niche, and go and advertise
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on those podcasts, and we actually
recommend that. You know, people do
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that as they're trying out the podcast
space. Or go and try and get
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their executives onto other podcasts, like, you know, using a company like
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interview Valet. Shout out to Tom
Schwab over there, a great guy.
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But do those things, but then
when you're ready to do your own podcast,
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really do it right. And so
to me, just being a sponsor
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of your own podcast feels like a
big missed opportunity because you're not and it
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kind of ties back to the previous
point. They're not really connecting with a
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human they're not really seeing that,
hey, this company is so invested in
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in highlighting these conversations with my peers
and this this industry shop talk that I
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can get value from. They're just
kind of an observer and I think you
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know there's some benefit there, but
again, there's other ways you could get
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that benefit if you're having your own
show. If you're going to have your
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own show, go all in and
have your own show. Yeah, so
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on one of our customers that does
have how they have someone from our team
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hosting their show for them. They
use the show a lot to have the
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host interview a lot of different executives
at their team, and so that's kind
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of the counterpoint to what we're saying
right there, where they're directing the content
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and they actually are shining the spotlight
on a lot of their internal people.
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Those internal people are not necessarily doing
you know, they're not becoming hosts,
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they're not doing it on a consistent
basis, but they are using the that
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the the customer that I'm thinking of
is a very large company and so they've
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got lots of different employees that they've
been able to shine the spotlight on by
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having their own show. So just
a small little counterpoint to that that if
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you can still you can still do
that to a certain degree by not having
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a host, but by about it
differently at bit. You got to be
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able to sustain that structure. So, like in that case, we provide
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the host and we're helping them conduct
interviews with partners, with customers and with
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internal subject matter experts, so they
still get that voice of the people on
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their team. I think of another
customer we work with in the quality engineering
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space and we provide the host on
that one. I do some hosting for
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that show. However, it's not
just me as the host and one of
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one of their guests. They have
one of their one of their executives on
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and I'm just kind of playing moderator
role, and so that could work if
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you really think that, hey,
we need someone with the ability to craft
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the conversation and guide the conversation.
That could be a format where, if
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you go there, you could still
get some of the benefits we're talking about
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of having a consistent voice from your
team on the podcast. Have the host
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more play moderator between an executive or
a subject that our expert on your team
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and an external practitioner or influencer.
Yeah, the fifth and final thing that
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we'll talk about. To me it's
the it's the biggest reason why you should
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have someone from your team hosting the
show, and that's content based networking.
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I mean, I obviously am biased
because I wrote a book about this concept,
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but I know from me with with
this show, would be to be
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growth. Had I not hosted the
first seven hundred episodes myself, I would
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not have been able to build relationships
with people that have now become long standing
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customers of ours, and so me
hosting the show, as you know,
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the salesperson for our company in the
early days before you came along, Logan,
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is the reason we've been able to
build the foundation of actually having customers
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and people giving us money. And
so the relationship that you can build with
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your guests, if you're doing content
based networking and you are trying to interview
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ideal customers that could potentially work with
you by featuring them on your show,
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doing a collaboration with them, building
a friendship with those people that you can
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actually do business with potentially is a
massive, massive benefit of having someone internally,
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whether it be somebody from your sales
team or whenever your executives, be
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the host of the show. You
now own that relationship with the guests and
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you can strategically capitalize on that relationship, because people buy from people they know.
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I can trust, and so this
is not a ski Zy. You
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know, I there's one particular guy
on Linkedin, Logan, that just bashes
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this idea. He's just so romantic
about the the podcast being all about the
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content, all about the the you
know, the romance of the content,
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and where like a bro like,
yeah, the content does matter, but
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that why not use your show to
build very strategic relationships with the exact people
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that you know can buy your product
or service? It doesn't mean you have
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to twist their arm and be skisy
and sales e and and trick them into,
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you know, trying to buy from
you. It that we don't do
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that at all. I don't think
if you talk to any of our guests,
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of the one, thousie hundred,
seventeen hundred guests, however many guests
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we've found on the show, I
don't think a single one of them would
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tell you that that we tricked them
into buying from us or to being on
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the show so that we could sell
to them, at least to my knowledge.
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I mean I can't think of any. Go Talk to Ethan, but
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go talk to sang Raum Vajer A, talk to brandon red linger. These
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are all folks that we initially built
relationships through content collaboration and now they are
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customers and they are advocates for us
and they don't feel like they got,
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you know, roped and doped into
something. I literally am on sales calls
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James Sometimes where I'm explaining content based
networking and I say hey, look,
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there's a reason you see this microphone
in front of me and you see a
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mic flag that says be to be
growth, because I head up sales for
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sweetfish and I'm also the primary cohost
of our podcast that is by design.
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We don't make any bones about it. We don't try to hide that whatsoever.
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I I post on Linkedin about the
strategy. This strategy. I talked
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about it here on the podcast very
regularly and you know it's not like hey,
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the recordings over and then the timeshare
presentation began. They just got the
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the free lunch. And this is
something that you know. A recent episode
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we did with Dylan Hay who started
his podcast primarily he's not a customer,
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but he's been friends with you and
the team here at sweetfish for a long
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time and he closed a deal with
one of his guests in the first twenty
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eight days of his podcasts. Go
listen to that episode. will put it
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in the show notes. He's doing
things that align with the strategy and also
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create great content. He's asking questions
of his guests that make great content,
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like what is your team struggling with
right now? What's your team most proud
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of? Those are things that lead
to great content that that guests peer want
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to hear about. But guess what, they also if they say, Hey,
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we're really struggling to figure out our
Uri on our PPC campaigns, well
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in in the story that Dylan shared. He didn't even have to bring it
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up post interview, like just by
the proximity of getting to know Dylan.
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He knew that that's what their agency, didn't he and the guest turned into
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a prospect by raising his hand post
interview. Dylan didn't have to swing and
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throw a right hook. But even
if you did, like even you know,
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post interview with a guest, if
they're talking about thought leadership and they're
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talking about we need to figure out
new channels, because I asked a question
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about what's on the horizon for you
guys in the second half of two thousand
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and twenty and I say, Hey, you guys haven't thought about a podcast
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in all those new channels, right? They're like, well, no,
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we have done like that doesn't feel
that doesn't feel sleazy, that doesn't feel
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like a right hook, because I
like a conversation. It's right. It
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feels like a conversation and I've just
spent thirty minutes talking shop with them about
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marketing. So they know that I
know what I'm talking about when it comes
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to market I don't just happen to
sell to to marketers. So the relationship
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aspect, I don't think can be
overstated. Now this is something Dan and
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I were talking about the other day
offline, is that there are certain people
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within your organization that are probably really
good networkers by default. You do this
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really well. I remember hearing an
interview with an author about the superconnector on
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growth years and years ago and I
was like, oh, that that makes
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so much sense for people like me
who have been in sales for a long
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time. But it's it's really about
the relationship building, and so I think
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what a lot of marketing teams kind
of struggle with is man are our CEO
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or our cofounders, they're really the
networkers, because in the early days of
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our company, how do we get
our first customers through their relationships and through
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their their network? Right? Are
salespeople? There are, you know,
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there are some that are all about
the presentation or all about delivering that Roy
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presentation, but a lot of salespeople
they are just naturally good networkers. They're
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good on linkedin and those sorts of
things, but they're like, I can't
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go to sales, they can't be
cohost of the podcast. We say they
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absolutely should be. I think more
and more marketers are starting to get this
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in the their eyes opened up to
there's value in me creating relationships for our
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brand, even if it's not a
prospect that I can hand over to the
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sales team and say hey, go
get them. That's not what we're saying,
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but you know, case in point. You built a relationship with Matt
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Hines, who has a very successful, long standing agency, Carlosdalgo. I
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think they were actually just both together
on an episode of this show. They
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have never been customers of ours paying
for our podcasting service, but guess what,
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they are very strategic relationships to have
in the bebe marketing space. Matt
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has referred us to people, Carlos
has referred us to mutual customers. They've
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both contributed content to this podcast and
promoted our show in some former fashion.
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And if we if we have an
ask of one of those one of those
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guys, I know that they would
take our call and they would respond to
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our email. So it's not always
relationship to meeting to close deal. There
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is a there is power and there
is a multiplying effect in having a network.
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I mean Dan and I were also
talking about a service provider in the
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marketing space that's kind of adjacent to
us, not not competitive but somewhat complimentary,
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and we're looking at their pricing page
and he was like, Oh,
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this is really cool. I should
ask him how we did this. Oh
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wait, I just had their CEO
on our podcast. I could totally ask
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them right. And it changes because
you have relational equity. So I just
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want people to start to broaden the
look at we're marketing. Can build strategic
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relationships with potential buyers, with strategic
potential referral partners and with industry influencers or
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someone else I was I was just
thinking of Oh, Eric Olson has been
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a customer for a long time.
I think he's one of those marketers who
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really get this. So it's not
normally just hey, in marketing our job
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is to build relationships, but it
can be a way that you can add
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additional value into all the tactical stuff
you're doing in marketing. Yeah, so,
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so, looking at the added cost, looking at the benefit of so
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to someone internally, looking at how
listeners can connect with a human behind your
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brand, looking at the thought leadership
and how that thought leadership gets associated with
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your brand when someone is hosting,
and then the fifth and final one being
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the relationships that you build with the
guests. When you can own those relationships
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yourself, or somebody from your team
can have those relationships with the guests that
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you are featuring on your show,
it is so much more strategic than having
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someone outside your company owning those relationships, and so we hope that you've gotten
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a lot of value out of this. We hope that you walk away with
383
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these five, five reasons that you
should host your own show as opposed to
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having someone else host it for you. We hope this is helpful. We
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hope we hope that it opens your
eyes to be. If if you're not
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already in the world of podcasting,
we hope that it opens your eyes to
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to some reasons why you should be, and we would obviously love to work
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with you. But but we just
want more people in the space. So
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if you want, if you want
to do it in house. Ivy Linkedin
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the other day. Man The this
strategy of content based networking has literally changed
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the trajectory of my sales career.
I want people to see how they can,
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how they can do this, whether
they work with us or not.
393
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It's a big reason why I've been
telling people, Hey, we're not sure
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if this strategy is going to work
with us. Hey, will write some
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email copy and either you guys use
that on a list that you have or
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will build a list for you,
because like test it out and see and
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maybe that that validates it and you
come to us, or maybe it validates
398
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it and and you go and be
successful with it. Either way, I
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think is a win and that's that's
why we're so passionate about the stuff.
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Man, we're two for to doing
that right where we've done that? We
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said, Hey, let's let's send
some emails out to your ideal customers and
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00:28:56.420 --> 00:29:00.420
ask them if they want to be
on a be on a guest and be
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00:29:00.579 --> 00:29:03.380
guest show. Yeah, and too, very different personas. One was a
404
00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:10.609
consultancy that focuses on early stage founders
of SASS companies, and the other was
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a Sass company focusing on customer success
professionals and customer success leaders. We crafted
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the messaging in kind of our typical
fashion, focusing like you talked about in
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the Oprah Chapter of your book,
picking up the spotlight and shining it.
408
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.200
You don't need a reason, you
don't need an excuse, you just have
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00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.839
to pick up the spotlight and blow
and behold it works. One of one
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00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.039
of those with this SASS founders.
We sent out a hundred emails. We
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00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:41.349
got an over fifty percent reply rate, and that was a show that was
412
00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:45.029
not live yet. It was just
kind of like a market test and we
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00:29:45.190 --> 00:29:48.910
got a fifty percent reply rate,
even with people saying, oh, the
414
00:29:49.150 --> 00:29:52.700
podcasters saturated, people are getting tired
of the ASS. That's just not the
415
00:29:52.819 --> 00:29:56.220
case that. Check out the episode
I did with Ritoishi, one of our
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00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:00.140
producers, on the five reasons it's
not too late to start a podcast.
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00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:03.099
When you really put it into context
and you hear things like that, you
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00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:07.730
realize, hey, there's still a
lot of opportunity here. Yep, all
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00:30:07.730 --> 00:30:10.769
right, we'll shut up now.
We know that you hear US ranting and
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00:30:10.849 --> 00:30:14.450
raving about podcast all the time.
Connect with Logan on Linkedin, connect with
421
00:30:14.529 --> 00:30:18.769
me on Linkedin, and we are
really looking forward to talking to you next
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00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:26.480
time. Is your buyer a BB
marketer? If so, you should think
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00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.039
about sponsoring this podcast. BB growth
gets downloaded over a hundred and thirty thousand
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00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.480
times each month and our listeners are
marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting,
425
00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:37.789
send logan and email logan at sweet
fish Mediacom