Transcript
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Welcome back to the behind the curtain
series of BB growth, and today we're
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going to be talking about something that
is incredibly important and it is how we
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at sweetfish define quality. A few
months ago, earlier this year, our
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director of audience growth, Dan Sanchez, actually came up with an acronym that
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we've been using ever since because we
love it so much, and it's the
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fire acronym. Fire stands for fun, informative, relevant and extensive. And
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today we're actually talking with I'm talking
with three other people from our team,
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Dan, who leads audience growth for
us. He's been a maniac on Linkedin
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and absolutely crushing it there. We've
got Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director,
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who leads design, video and all
of our writing, our entire writing team.
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Then we've got Timmy Bauer, who's
a content strategist on our team.
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It's been focusing a lot on Seo
lately, and so I'm going to be
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talking with these three people about the
fire acronym and how they how they use
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the fire acronym to filter the content
that they are working on for the sweetfish
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brand and really what we advocate for
our customers to use as well. So
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I won't bore you all with lengthy
introductions from each of them, but I
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want to I want to dive in
first with less Dimond, with Dan.
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I mean Dan, you came up
with this acronym. Why did you think
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that it was so critical? I
mean, this was right as you were
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first starting with us as a contractor. Why did you think it was so
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critical to define what quality standards looked
like here before even really stepping into a
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full time role? Standards allow us
to scale. Without the standards and actually
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documenting what good is, people don't
know what they're aiming for. So if
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we're writing content and this we hear
a sweetfish. Believe that everybody should learn
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how to scale content. Like we
want quality content, but it's not just
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enough to have quality. Also have
to have quantity, like a lot of
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content. And really, in order
to really do well within bound you have
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to produce a ton of content.
And but at the same time we're like,
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well, if we go high volume, does that mean we're going to
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hit the quality? Yes, if
you document what quality looks like, which
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is why it's important. We were
kicking around the idea of fire content just
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because fire sounded fun. It's kind
of relevant for today and we were using
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that little fire Emoji and I took
a lesson I learned from a book called
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made to stick by Dan and chip
heath, about trying to make ideas sticky,
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trying to make them so you only
have to communicate them once and people
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could remember them more easily, and
one of the ways they did it was
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through acronyms. So I took our
idea of making fire content, kind of
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pulled together some of the things we
were already discussing as far as what made
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quality, and then I just try
to essentially I forced them into an acronym
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to make it a little bit easier
to remember what our quality standards were.
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Yeah, and so so I want
to I want to elaborate on each one
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of these. So there it's fun, informative, relevant and extensive. That's
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the that's how we measure quality here
at Sweet Fish Fun. How you impact
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this, Dan, is you know, the content is easy to consume,
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it's intriguing and it engages the heart. To me, you actually added something
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on there that I really like.
It's sprinkled with flavor and I think by
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adding that piece on there, you
really see that come out in the social
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content, the stuff we're putting out
on Linkedin through our evangelism program, you
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know, with our with the humor
that we put into the gifts and memes
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were referencing pop culture. That's what
we mean by fun. They're informative.
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Is Our content empowers people to do
today what they couldn't do yesterday. Relevant.
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It matches what people are actually looking
for or are intrigued by. This
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speaks a lot to what we're doing
with SEO. We want to make sure
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that we're matching the searchers intent when
we're creating content and then extensive. The
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content goes deep but is easy to
consume. It makes the complex simple to
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unlock insights quickly. Timmy, how
do you view this framework whenever you're coming
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up with content ideas, whenever you're
building out content that hopefully ranks for specific
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keywords? Yeah, absolutely so.
Whenever I'm thinking about blog writing for Seo,
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the quality standards that I wrote for
myself were does it match the searcher's
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intent? Does the searcher feel good
while reading it? Does it give the
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best answers and is it sprinkled with
flavor? And so how those things fit
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into the fun acronym I would say, or sorry, the fire acronym I
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would say is for does it match
the searchers intent? That's really about relevancy.
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Take a keyword like be to be
podcasting Mac right and I look and
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see what currently ranks for that keyword
and I and I don't see anyone saying,
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if you have a MAC computer,
here's here's the stuff you need for
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a be Tob podcast. Well then
nobody. That's ranking right now is is
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actually matching for what the searcher who
type that in is actually looking for.
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And so that's ripe. That's like, okay, we can take that one,
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because all we got to do is
write an article that directly addresses the
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need of the searcher. I would
say, does the searcher feel good while
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reading it? I mean this kind
of speaks to a couple of things.
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One, if it's fun, the
searcher is going to feel good while they're
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reading it, but also if it's
relevant, if it if they click on
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the blog and it actually does deliver
what they were looking for and it gives
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the information that they're hoping for and
it goes deep without being difficult to consume.
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So another one I have is,
does it give the best answer,
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and that takes a lot of effort
on our part at sweet fish. You
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know, we're pulling in contributors that
we know have the best answers on certain
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things because we want to make sure
that we're we're sourcing information is coming from
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the best sources that are out there
on the Internet, and then we need
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to package that information. This is
what I what I've got in parentzes here
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is we want to make sure that
it gives the best answer while it still
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feels easy to consume and skimmable.
So a good example like that for Seo
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would be a table that if the
person that clicked on that article wants to,
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they can look at the different things
in that table and go all these
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are some deep answers on all of
these specific things, but also, if
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they want to, they can just
skim right by that table. That's just
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one example. Yeah, I mean
then is it sprinkled with flavor? Obviously
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this goes to the fun in our
fire acronym, and the way that I
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think about that is with things like
humor, gifts, pop culture references.
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I mean we have currently articles written
that are ranking on metal testing and I
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would say one of the reasons why
those articles feel good to read is because
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we have sprinkled them with flavor.
I mean we've got references to what Konda
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and like marvel stuff, and it
just it. There's a you don't go
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too long before you get a joke
that will actually make you snicker as you're
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reading. Yeah, so, yeah, I love that. Kels. How
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do you use the fire acronym in
the work you're doing, particularly as it
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relates to our writing team? We
actually have broken down each word, I
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mean each letter in the fire acronym, into like a hundred other different ways
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that that can be translated. That's
what I really enjoy, how versatile it
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is, because there are so many
different things that we're going to be looking
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for depending on the industry that we're
writing for. So within extensive you also
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making sure that something is consumable.
Has a lot to do with how we
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structure our blog posts. There are
a lot of different ways that our writers
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will strategically keep something consumable will still
be able to go incredibly in death on
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a topic and making sure that we
are meeting each of our clients briefs as
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far as like, how do we
want to talk about the guests. How
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do we want? You know,
what are some things we want to make
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sure that we're touching on, making
sure that we like thoroughly cover the thing
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backwards and forwards, but also that
it's not so overly, just so so
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much information that it becomes overwhelming because
as informative as that is, it's not
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going to be something that you engage
with. So I can be something you
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can really stick with. So we
do, as Timmy was saying, we
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do have a way of kind of
sprinkling and some flavor to make something that
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has potentially super dry still be something
that you can consume gain a lot of
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information from that goes beyond like what
you would typically just be looking for in
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like a top ten blog post.
Yeah. So actually, before I get
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to you, Dan, I'll speak
to the fire acronym as it relates to
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a lot of the micro videos that
we've been putting out on Linkin. To
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me, something is actionable when it
tells you to start doing something or to
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stop doing something. And so when
I unpack fire and I look at okay,
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fun, informative, relevant and extensive, the I are part of it.
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The informative and the relevancy to me
comes down to, has this actually
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told me to do something actionable,
like, is there something that I can
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walk away with from this micro video? I guess it could apply to anything
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really, to a blog post,
to text only status that we see on
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Linkedin. Does this actually move me
forward? Does it help me start doing
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something, or does it help remind
me that I should stop doing something that
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I'm currently doing? And one of
the ways that we integrate this into our
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own process we just straight up ask
those questions and this is something that we
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hope a lot of our customers will
ask their guests as well. It is
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something as simple as you know what
is what is something that people in this
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space, whatever space you're in,
whether it's manufacturing, like you alluded to
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earlier to me, or healthcare or
regress ass whatever? What is something that
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people in your space should start doing
that they're not already doing? And that
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alone is going to give you some
great content when your guests response to that
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question. And then the second question
is what should people in the space stop
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doing that they are probably doing right
now, and again, that's that's going
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to allow your guests to give you
a differentiated perspective. We actually call some
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of these questions, Pov discovery questions, because we think that the point of
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view of your guests matters, and
for so. I mean we've only recently
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started to develop the POV discovery process, but it is, it has been
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so helpful for us to extract really
quality information out of our guests because we're
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asking it in such a way that
says, Hey, don't tell us what
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all of your peers are already saying. Don't tell us that we need to
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be more human than our marketing.
We already know that, like everyone in
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their mom is telling us that sales
and marketing needs to be aligned and they
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need to be best friends. We
already know that. What something that that
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people believe in this space that you
passionately disagree with? That's going to give
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us a unique perspective that is differentiated
and actually helps people reframe kind of how
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they're how they're thinking, and I
think that's that's what we're trying to go
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for, not just in our microvideos
but in all of the content that we're
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creating here. Then, do you
have any other thoughts around this four part
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framework for how we measure quality?
Sure, I think some parts are expendable,
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like if you don't hit them.
It's not as good as it could
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have been, but it's okay.
So the parts that are actually the most
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important are they informative and relevant.
It has to be something that empowers them
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to do something they couldn't do yesterday, because we're we're immediate company, but
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we're kind of an educational media company. That is our chief aim. is
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to educate people. Is Really do
empower people. But it's not just enough
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to empower people, because we could
empower people to do things they don't care
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about or is not relevant to them. So relevancy is the key thing,
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and we could be relevant and not
actually teach them anything or just repeat what
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other people are saying right, which
isn't really helpful at all. So trying
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to inform them and make it relevant
is by far like if we could do
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one thing, that's it. Next
I would add extensive and then lay on
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top of that I would layer fun. So that's kind of like the order.
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Is it relatant? So I guess
I would start with relevance, informative.
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So you have to find out what's
relevant to them, write something that
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empowers them to do something new,
add on top of that making it extensive
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and then add on top of that
still fun funds kind of like the last
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layer and honestly, is kind of
like the secret ingredient, because hardly anybody
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in BEDB's making their content find but
something you were saying just right before we
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hit record, Dan, that you
hear so many people complaining about how you
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know. Why are you trying to
learn stuff from Google? You need to
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you need to find other sources and
do you. That's super exciting to you
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because that means that there's all of
this open opportunity with commodity content that's boring
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as hell and note like nobody wants
to consume it because it's just some agency
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working for some company that's trying to
get them ranked on the first page for
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specific keyword. But the content actually
sucks because it wasn't written from from somebody's
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perspective that's in the industry that knows
it. It was written by some content
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writer at an agency that doesn't really
know much about the space. But they
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identified the keyword and they're like hey, this is going to be easy to
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out rank if we just write a
longer article. But it's just a longer
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article of commodity content. Can you
elaborate on that a little bit. So
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where we're hearing that the most is
on Linkedin, because Linkedin's hot right now,
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like there's some good content floating around
on linked and and people are just
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like hating on, hating on the
content on Google. Of course there's good
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content on Google, but the reason
why they're hating on it is because oftentimes
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people are just writing informative content.
Google's going to make sure that it's relevant,
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right. That's Google's job is to
bring the most informative and relevant but
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what they're not doing so often is
making it extensive. So they're usually missing
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on that. If they're not,
if they're hit that, then they're not.
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It's they're not making it really fun. And when I say extensive,
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like here's a good example. That
are you want to run into a lot,
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which applies to a lot of industries, but I use something really specific.
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For example, if you write a
blog, if you go in search
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for like tips on marathon training and
you run into an article that says tip
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number one, drink water, how
helpful is that like? What is like?
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Of course it would a drink water. I'm running twenty six point two
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miles. Drink water. That's your
best idea, like, but so many
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blog posts are like that, right. They're like, Oh, do this,
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you're like yeah, if I'd sat
down for like ten seconds and thought
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of maybe ways to do this,
I would have thought of that. Okay,
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can we get past that? How
much water? How often should I
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add anything to the water? Should
I? Should I drink a certain amount
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of water before, just before racing? How about the night before? What?
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What kind of water? Like,
how am I supposed to do this?
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Get into the specifics, like go
a little deeper than like the first
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obvious answer. That would be an
example of extensive. Yeah, and then
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fun, like fun, is that
get to be the thing that really offsets
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content, because it's hardly it's rarely
done. Most contents dry. It's just
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you just kind of scan get the
little tidbit that you needed move on.
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But if you can make it fun, they're going to stick around a little
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longer. If you make it fun, they're going to be more likely to
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see what else you have going on
on the website. You know, as
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you're talking Dan, and you know, the thing that I think about obviously,
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big picture, a sweet fish.
We're trying to create the most helpful
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content on the Internet for every job, function and industry on the planet.
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Very grandiose mission vision. We're becoming
a media company. We're trying to we're
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trying to educate a million people every
single day. We're trying to do a
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lot of big things. But I
think that word helpful is is the thing
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that I keep coming back to and
we've gone back to informative and relevant.
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But I think the way that fun
interacts with that is it can be the
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most helpful piece of content on the
Internet, but if it is dry and
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boring and doesn't engage someone's heart,
then they're not going to consume it.
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So it's not actually going to help
them. And so I think the writing
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your content with empathy, knowing that
I could share a bunch of data and
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a bunch of facts and figures,
but in less I inject something in it
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that is actually going to make it
refreshing and fun for them to consume,
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it's not going to help them anyway. Kels, do you have any any
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closing thoughts as we as we wind
down this episode on our four part quality
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framework? Yeah, I think,
just as you're talking, James, I
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think I think as fun really as
the key ingredient. But I don't think
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you can really have something that's fun
unless you're speaking with confidence. So I
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think confidence is so key whenever it
comes to just being able, because it's
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risky to make a joke, gets
risky to kind of make something light and
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I think a lot of time,
as we spend so much time trying to
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sound like the ultimate authority in a
certain field, but we really miss an
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opportunity to have fun with it.
And so there's there's an aspect of riskiness
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involved. But Man, when you
can nail it, when you can actually
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do something that lands, that's fun, that's funny, that you know lightened
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something up a little bit, just
adding that little bit of texture and there
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really does help kind of give more
authority and it helps build confidence in just
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to that voice in the space.
Yeah, and we are, our writing
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team. Just thinking, thinking about
emily and Tim and Don. I mean
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they do a phenomenal job of injecting
humor into the content that we create without
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sacrificing the authority and the the the
informative pieces of the content. And they
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they do some of those things by
like the setup paragraph, like using the
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opening paragraph into an idea to maybe
give a funny analogy before they actually drop.
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You know, the the quality that
the guests just shared, and so
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I they're definitely wats to do it. I'm so glad you brought that up,
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Kelsey, because that is a fear
like that's why people don't want to
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be fun, is because they're afraid
that it's going to sacrifice the authority that
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comes with what they're saying. But
in all actuality, I think it's actually
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going to get more attention. Your
Authority is going to get more attention if
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you wrap it in something that is
much more consumable. Timmy, do you
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have any closing thoughts on the fire
acronym and and this for part framework for
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quality that we use? The only
thing that I would pick piggyback off of
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is what Kelsey was saying about confidence
and taking risks. I think personally as
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a writer, my writing got better
when everyone at sweet fish started the push
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of hey, as writers, we
need to be taking risks and and it
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was like, if some of your
jokes don't land, it is better that
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you are out there taking risks to
make jokes that don't land or just interesting
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ways of wording things that maybe won't
land. And then over all the writing
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gets better. Yeah, I don't
know, I don't know. That's the
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part that I latched onto. Yeah, no, I cook or something right
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and you like you try a bunch
of different things. You kind of figure
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out what works and what doesn't work. It takes some time to really really
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nail a voice down, but adding
in that, adding in that humor and
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taking those risks just it helps like
prepare you for the one that works.
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Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited
to release this episode. Obviously we are
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in the business of quality content.
If we're not putting out quality content,
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then we get you know, we
get very few new customers because most all
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of our customers right now find us
through inbound through listening to this podcast,
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through finding content that we've written on
the Internet. And then if our clients
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aren't creating helpful content and and informative
content, relevant content, fun content,
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extensive content, then they're probably not
going to want to work with US anymore.
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But but we we wanted to document
this because I don't think we've talked
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much publicly about this four part framework
and I honestly think it could help any
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company, regardless of what industry you're
in. Think through. How do we
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actually measure the quality of the content
that we're creating? And just going back
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to that fire acronym again, we
measure it. Is it fun? Is
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it informative, is it relevant and
is it extensive? We hope this episode
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has been all of those things for
all of you listening to this and if
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you have any questions at all,
know that you can reach out to any
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of us. Kelsey Montgomery, or
creative director. She's on Linkedin. Dan
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Sanchez, our director of audience growth, again on Linkedin, all over linkedin.
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Timmy Bauer, I think he's actually
Timothy Bauer, on Linkedin. She
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can find him there. He's a
content strategist on our team, and I
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am obviously James Carberry, founder of
suet fish media. You'll find me all
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over linkedin as well. Thank you
so much for listening to this. We
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love you people a ton. Are
you on Linkedin? That's a stupid question.
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Of course you're on Linkedin. Here's
so we fish. We've gone all
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in on the platform. Multiple people
from our team are creating content there.
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Sometimes it's a funny gift for me, other times it's a micro video or
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a slide deck and sometimes it's just
a regular old status update that shares their
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unique point of view on BB marketing
leadership or their job function. We're posting
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this content through their personal profile,
not our company page, and it would
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warm my heart and soul if you
connected with each of our evangelists. will
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be adding more down the road,
but for now you should connect with bill
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read, our COO, Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director, Dan Sanchez,
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our director of audience growth, Logan
Lyles are director of partnerships, and me,
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James Carberry. We are having a
whole lot of fun on Linkedin pretty
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much every single day and we'd love
for you to be a part of it.
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