#BTC 29: How to Build a Thought Leadership Program (A 10-Part Framework)

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:08.189 Welcome back to beb growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. Today 2 00:00:08.310 --> 00:00:12.710 is another episode in our behind the curtain series. As oftentimes in this series, 3 00:00:12.750 --> 00:00:16.469 I'm joined by my good Buddy James Carberry, founder and CEO of Sweet 4 00:00:16.469 --> 00:00:19.390 Fish Media, author of content based networking. I got to get that author 5 00:00:19.469 --> 00:00:21.780 plug in every now and there for you, man. How's it going today, 6 00:00:21.780 --> 00:00:25.660 James? It is going fantastic, dude. We did a meeting this 7 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:31.660 week that got me so fired up and so excited. We are building, 8 00:00:31.699 --> 00:00:36.929 or building an evangelist program within sweet fish, so I thought leadership program and 9 00:00:37.090 --> 00:00:41.890 so we've identified who are evangelists are going to be and we had our kickoff 10 00:00:41.929 --> 00:00:47.090 call earlier this week. And so this episode we are going to be unpacking 11 00:00:47.409 --> 00:00:53.240 our evangelist program or our thought leadership program and explaining why we're doing it and 12 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.799 then how we went about doing the kickoffs and and getting us off on the 13 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.240 right foot, because before you know it you're going to start seeing a bunch 14 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.430 of different people at sweetish posting on Linkedin and I'm really excited about it. 15 00:01:03.469 --> 00:01:07.269 So let's die in and talk about first, you know, Loogan, why 16 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:11.349 are we doing this? Like why? Why is this something we're investing so 17 00:01:11.430 --> 00:01:14.829 many resources into. Yeah, I could go on for a few minutes on 18 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:18.620 how I'm so excited about this, but I think as we unpack that we'll 19 00:01:18.620 --> 00:01:22.459 get into that. But the why for us, one of our core beliefs 20 00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:25.579 here at sweet fish, is that people connect with people more than they do 21 00:01:25.780 --> 00:01:29.299 with logos. That's part of the reason that Linkedin has gained so much traction 22 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:33.730 as a social media platform, because it is about that one to one connection, 23 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:38.209 that facetoface connection. I know that the person behind that profile is an 24 00:01:38.209 --> 00:01:42.530 actual person and also we see that we're not alone in this dance. Scott 25 00:01:42.569 --> 00:01:47.480 Barker at outreach that ioh on his email newsletter was talking about, you know, 26 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:52.519 a future where hiring decisions are made based on your reach on things like 27 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:56.760 Linkedin and and that sort of stuff, and I just wholeheartedly agree with that. 28 00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:01.430 We've seen so much more engagement through my personal profile on Linkedin yours in 29 00:02:01.510 --> 00:02:05.750 the past and we just want to explode that. We want to expand that 30 00:02:06.310 --> 00:02:09.030 so that we can gain even more momentum, and so we just want to 31 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:12.830 be very intentional about it. A lot of people, a lot of marketers 32 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.099 I talked to say, Hey, we want to be a thought leader, 33 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:20.139 but they don't necessarily know how do we tactically go about that, and our 34 00:02:20.259 --> 00:02:23.300 evangelist program I think, is going to point us in the right direction. 35 00:02:23.419 --> 00:02:27.340 So, as you alluded to already, step number one for us was identifying 36 00:02:27.819 --> 00:02:30.689 the WHO. Walk us through that a little bit. And Yeah, so 37 00:02:30.930 --> 00:02:32.650 when I was thinking about who, who do we want to start with? 38 00:02:32.969 --> 00:02:37.930 Because eventually I want everybody on our team. You know, we got twenty 39 00:02:37.930 --> 00:02:40.530 employees now. I want everybody on our team to have the opportunity to be 40 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:44.520 a sweek fish evangelist. But we've got to figure this stuff out out. 41 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.199 There's lots of process that we need to work through. We've refined our content 42 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:51.199 engine pretty well just because of the naturally because of the work that we do 43 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:54.280 for customers, but there's going to be some tweaks and some some things that 44 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:58.750 are different here. So so we only wanted to start with with a handful. 45 00:02:58.789 --> 00:03:00.870 So we sort of with five. So obviously you and I were putting 46 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:05.270 out a lot of content through our pillar content channels, so you and I 47 00:03:05.550 --> 00:03:08.430 were obviously going to be on that list. Our new director of audience growth, 48 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:14.139 Dan, who is actually a marketer. He is our buyer persona. 49 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:16.979 So it's very important for him to be in this mix because he lives and 50 00:03:17.139 --> 00:03:22.939 breathes marketing, which is what our ideal buyer lives and breathe, and so 51 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:27.409 made made too much sense to have Dan be one of the five. Then 52 00:03:27.449 --> 00:03:30.849 our creative director. We wanted Kelsey to be a part of this because, 53 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:35.090 one she's new to being a creative director. So I think that journey, 54 00:03:35.210 --> 00:03:38.770 documenting that journey is going to be really intriguing. I think it's going to 55 00:03:38.810 --> 00:03:44.560 be a fun story to tell as she is learning how to manage a creative 56 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:47.919 team and how to lead creative at a really fast growing, you know, 57 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.639 podcast agency and and podcast first media company, but also I think marketers are 58 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:59.349 interested in that. I think marketers want to if they're more if they lean 59 00:03:59.469 --> 00:04:02.189 more towards project management, they want to be more creative. They at least 60 00:04:02.229 --> 00:04:04.990 have a desire to, and so I think having someone on our team that 61 00:04:05.110 --> 00:04:09.789 comes from the design with a design background and is now leading our creative team 62 00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:13.060 is going to add a really interesting perspective. And then Bill Reid, who's 63 00:04:13.099 --> 00:04:17.980 our COO. He's our fifth evangelist and we're starting with Tam because he's just 64 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:25.050 got a depth of business expertise and we're going to talk about how we've defined 65 00:04:25.089 --> 00:04:28.970 our points of view later in this episode. And whenever we were to finding 66 00:04:29.009 --> 00:04:30.649 them, the most of US had seven to ten, you know, points 67 00:04:30.689 --> 00:04:33.850 of view that we really want to camp out on and share. Bill had 68 00:04:34.009 --> 00:04:38.680 like thirty, and it's indicative of him being a business for, you know, 69 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:43.360 thirty plus years. So bill brings a level of wisdom and expertise that 70 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.759 nobody else on our team has and so we wanted to make sure that we 71 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.720 included him in this initial mix of naturalists. Yeah, I think that's a 72 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:55.589 really good point and every one of the folks that are part of this initial 73 00:04:55.670 --> 00:04:59.550 evangelist program are coming from a different, different point of view. Like you 74 00:04:59.589 --> 00:05:02.509 said, Dan Fitting our buyer persona. So obviously, you know, we 75 00:05:02.670 --> 00:05:06.899 want to have his point of view on marketing out there, but then there 76 00:05:08.259 --> 00:05:11.779 there are other personas. That makes sense as well and one of the things 77 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:15.779 we can talk about this as we get further into the tactics. But you 78 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:18.139 know, Bill is not used to putting out content. He has a lot 79 00:05:18.220 --> 00:05:23.170 of wisdom and so I think for marketers that say hey, I have this 80 00:05:23.329 --> 00:05:27.410 person who could be a thought leader in the space, but one they're not 81 00:05:27.569 --> 00:05:30.449 used to being recorded, they're not used to putting out content. They're not 82 00:05:30.529 --> 00:05:33.529 a marketer themselves, because we don't sell the marketers. But we need our 83 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:39.000 CTO where we need our thhr Oh to be this evangelist. There are some 84 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:45.240 things that I've learned in just kicking off this program and helping bill understand the 85 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.430 way that we can automatize content that comes from his point of view that will 86 00:05:49.430 --> 00:05:53.310 be helpful for folks. Will get into that in a sect. We identified 87 00:05:53.389 --> 00:05:57.470 the WHO and then we identified our pillar pieces of content, and I just 88 00:05:57.589 --> 00:06:00.110 want to pause here real quick because I think if people hear this they might 89 00:06:00.149 --> 00:06:03.069 say, well, this is kind of like a brand ambassador program and I 90 00:06:03.189 --> 00:06:06.620 think what a lot of people do with a brand ambassador program is, Hey, 91 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:11.620 we're going to push out a lot of content through our company profiles and 92 00:06:11.779 --> 00:06:15.139 we want to activate you to be able to reshare that. And there's a 93 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.730 lot of reasons why we're not going that route. Part of it is Linkedin 94 00:06:17.889 --> 00:06:21.610 is the channel that's number one for us and Linkedin doesn't like reshare a posts. 95 00:06:21.850 --> 00:06:26.970 Linkedin does not put priority on company page post, and so we're going 96 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:30.810 away from kind of the typical brand ambassador program even though the goal here is 97 00:06:31.009 --> 00:06:34.720 much, I think, what a lot of marketers try to activate with that 98 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:40.600 brand ambassador program. So step number two for us was identifying our pillar pieces 99 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:44.079 of content. Talk a little bit about this and then we'll we'll go into 100 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.589 where does it go from there? Yeah, so we have a lot of 101 00:06:46.750 --> 00:06:50.670 pillar content that we're producing here, which is going to make this program incredibly 102 00:06:50.709 --> 00:06:55.790 successful. I think a lot of brands might only have one or two pieces 103 00:06:55.910 --> 00:07:00.750 of pillar content and I think something that we do really special is we've got 104 00:07:00.790 --> 00:07:02.779 a lot of different series that we do that we can pull content from. 105 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:09.660 The reason pillar content is so powerful is because it's literally the the gasoline in 106 00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:13.339 the engine. It's where everything else is going to come from. It's where 107 00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:15.410 your microvideos are going to come from. It it's where your slide decks are 108 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:18.089 going to come from, it's where your blog posts are going to come from. 109 00:07:18.410 --> 00:07:25.529 But if you don't have multiple pillar content channels, your your contents going 110 00:07:25.569 --> 00:07:29.610 to be lopsided, it's going to it's it's only going to feature certain types 111 00:07:29.649 --> 00:07:33.000 of stories, it's not going to be well rounded and the evangelists are not 112 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:39.560 going to be equipped to share content that is going to keep an audience engaged, 113 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:44.790 and so thinking about diversity and changing changing up the type of content you 114 00:07:44.990 --> 00:07:48.790 create is really important. So our pillar content channels are obviously be tob grows, 115 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:53.550 you know, our daily podcast that we now do on video. So 116 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:56.470 we're going to get a ton of content from BB grows. From this episode 117 00:07:56.470 --> 00:07:59.540 itself. I'm sure we're going to get, you know, twenty or thirty 118 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:03.339 micro videos from this, from this one episode alone. Another one is content 119 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:09.060 camp, which is a monthly live event that we're going to be doing starting 120 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:13.569 in June, where we're going to be talking to betb content marketers about creative 121 00:08:13.610 --> 00:08:18.129 things they're doing with their content. That's going to be Super Fun. Our 122 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:22.889 BB PODCASTING QA's. This is where we do deep dives into our own expertise. 123 00:08:22.569 --> 00:08:28.319 Notice that we're not just talking about Beb podcasting in our pillar and most 124 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.439 of our pillar content, but this piece of pillar content we actually are so 125 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.519 this we top our linkedin network. We email our list and say hey, 126 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:37.799 we're going to jump on for thirty minutes and ask answer any question you have 127 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:43.429 about podcasting, and ends up creating a ton of content. I think are 128 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:48.190 the last one that I saw we had like nineteen micro videos that came out 129 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.429 of a thirty minute Qa or something like that. So it's a huge source 130 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:56.500 of content. Can be a huge source of content. We've also started doing 131 00:08:56.620 --> 00:08:58.580 customer mass your mind. So again, these are thirty minute calls that we 132 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:03.340 do once a month with our customers where you and I logan or will bring 133 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:05.179 in Dan, we do a deep dive on a particular topic that's going to 134 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:09.570 help their show be better. So this this one. This last week we 135 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:15.850 talked about linkedin. We've talked about our SEO strategy and how we combine SEO 136 00:09:15.970 --> 00:09:18.809 with podcasting. We've done one other one that I'm blinking on. What the 137 00:09:20.009 --> 00:09:22.730 what the topic was for that one. But we also do sweet talk, 138 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:28.519 which is an internal podcast, and this one's really cool because I was going 139 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:33.080 through and I was doing cuts on, or approving cuts and headlines for the 140 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.559 micro videos that came out of a sweet talk episode that I did with our 141 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:41.429 director of culture and people ops, Ryan, and he was asking me questions 142 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:43.669 because it's an internal podcast. So he's like, hey, tell you know, 143 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.750 do you remember what we almost named sweet fish and the name of sweetfish 144 00:09:46.870 --> 00:09:50.909 was almost red fish, and and so he we ended up, you know, 145 00:09:52.029 --> 00:09:54.379 talking about the story of how, you know, and I don't even 146 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:56.700 remember that. It wasn't coming to mind. So it was cool because as 147 00:09:56.740 --> 00:10:01.779 I was listening back to that particular clip that the rider clipped, I was 148 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:03.299 like, Oh man, that takes me back to like being at that coffee 149 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:07.809 shop with Ryan, sitting at the table half a decade ago, figuring out 150 00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:09.809 like is it going to be red fish or is it going to be sweet 151 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:13.570 fish? So by having an internal podcast and and being able to share more 152 00:10:13.649 --> 00:10:18.809 personal stories about our evangelists, I think it's going to add so much depths 153 00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:22.120 to the content that they end up publishing. It's not just going to be 154 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.559 about be tob marketing, it's going to be about them as a person, 155 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:30.399 which is what makes, I think, a personal brand sticky. The fact 156 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.240 that we know Gary v loves, you know, grew up trading baseball cards 157 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.470 and he loves the jets and you know he's you know, he loves rap 158 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:41.909 culture like the think that the reality that we know, the fact that we 159 00:10:43.029 --> 00:10:45.669 know all of those things about Gary V, is a big part of what 160 00:10:45.789 --> 00:10:48.029 makes his personal brand, so sticky, so sweet talk is one of our 161 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:52.419 pillar pieces of the content are all hands meetings, are internal meetings, your 162 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:56.779 sales calls, and then content where we've been featured as a guest. So 163 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.299 we're dumping all of that pillar content into a Trello board that we call social 164 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:09.610 media and we're basically organizing all of that content in one place and then turning, 165 00:11:09.769 --> 00:11:13.169 slicing and dicing it into a million different pieces of content that are then 166 00:11:13.210 --> 00:11:18.370 going to fuel the content that our evangelists are putting out through their personal profiles 167 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:20.480 on Linkedin. Yeah, man, I love that you went into some of 168 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:26.799 those other pieces that we've identified as pillar pieces of content that probably wouldn't come 169 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.879 to mind, and you know I was going to ask you to maybe define 170 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.789 pillar pieces of content. I'll kind of take us tab at it, but 171 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:39.230 I would say it's anything that you're actively doing already with consistency that you're not 172 00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:43.309 getting as much juiced for the squeeze as as you could. I mean, 173 00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:48.620 and we just started identifying. Hey, there are sales calls that I'm recording 174 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:52.580 in chorus for my own notetaking, for handing over to our producer team, 175 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:56.220 because I'm talking strategy with our customers and I'm answering a lot of the same 176 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.620 questions and you know, I just found like, hold on a second, 177 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.049 you know, obviously we're not sharing like hey, I'm you know, what 178 00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:05.769 prospects are saying on those calls and those sorts of things or anything that would 179 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:09.929 necessarily identify them if it's not the right fit. But if I'm just answering 180 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:13.330 a question that I'm regularly answering, it's like, hold on a second, 181 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:16.960 I don't have to call a time out, block time on Friday, record 182 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.240 a video script it and it's more natural anyway. You you know. And 183 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.240 so it's reduced time. It's helped us create more content. The answers. 184 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.789 You know, your typical Faq's, and so think about pillar pieces of content, 185 00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:37.509 not necessarily as just your webinar series, your blog, your podcast. 186 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:39.870 Those are kind of like the first ones. But as you start to think 187 00:12:39.870 --> 00:12:43.419 about this, where could we draw from your all hands meeting? Right if 188 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:46.700 you have a regular all hands would you normally do? And everybody's doing those 189 00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:52.580 remotely right now. It is so easy to just record the whole thing and 190 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:54.899 then, if you have a system to break that apart, identify the pieces 191 00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:58.250 that would be good external. We're not saying that. We're just, like 192 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:03.210 you know, recording everything internal and always, but you know, sometimes it'll 193 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:05.289 make for good blooper real content, as we just found out before we hit 194 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.129 record on this one. Anyway. All Right, so we've talked about the 195 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:13.240 WHO, the pillar pieces of content. Next step is identifying the themes. 196 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.720 Now I want to pause here because we already know our buyer persona really, 197 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.120 really well. We know it's typically VP of marketing. We do a lot 198 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.360 of work in the Tech Company for SASS companies, usually fifty plus employee is 199 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.710 is kind of our sweet spot in the mid market. So we know who 200 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:33.909 we're speaking to and therefore we can identify those top three or four themes. 201 00:13:33.950 --> 00:13:35.149 If you don't know that, you need to back up and do some work 202 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:39.029 on your ICPM Bire Persona. But let's dive into themes and kind of where 203 00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:43.419 we got to and what other people can kind of follow along in this framework. 204 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:46.940 James. Yeah, so the themes are important because it really acts as 205 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.659 kind of a North Star and when you're thinking about the kind of content that 206 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.539 you're going to be pushing out through a lot of different personal profiles, in 207 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:58.250 your organization. You need to make sure that it's rolling up to things that 208 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:01.889 are strategic for the business. You can't just have everybody posting about whatever the 209 00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:03.970 heck they want to post about. It needs to it needs to roll up 210 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:07.889 right and so and we're guaranteeing that it's going to roll up because we have 211 00:14:09.049 --> 00:14:11.360 established what our pillar content is. So we know that they're not going to 212 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:15.480 be too off center, because our pillar content are things like be to be 213 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.039 growth and content camp and things that are geared toward talking about the things that 214 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.080 we know are going to be helpful for our buyer. But identifying kind of 215 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.149 overarching themes helps. It can help you come up with new pillar ideas, 216 00:14:28.509 --> 00:14:31.950 with new pillar content ideas, but it can also help you develop your points 217 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:35.070 of view, which we're going to talk about here in a second. And 218 00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:41.139 so our content names that sweetish our content marketing obviously be tob podcasting and content 219 00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:43.980 based networking, which is our methodology that I wrote a book about. So 220 00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:48.179 those those three are our content themes. So we've identified our pillar content, 221 00:14:48.259 --> 00:14:52.090 we identified our content names. But there's something that I realized during the kickoff 222 00:14:52.129 --> 00:14:56.169 call that we did for this evangelist program this week. Where I was originally 223 00:14:56.250 --> 00:15:01.769 going in thinking our content needs to be very strategic. It needs to be 224 00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:03.970 helpful to the BE TOB marketer. We need to be pushing out so much 225 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:09.759 content that it is insanely helpful for the be tob marketer because ultimately that's our 226 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:15.360 buyer. And eighty percent somebody's content, whether they know anything about be to 227 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.799 be marketing or not. So like Bill Kelsey, you know not not big 228 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.990 BEB marketing experts, because I haven't talked to as many be tob marketers as 229 00:15:22.029 --> 00:15:24.549 I have and they haven't been one, like Dan and has been one. 230 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:28.750 But they need to be. Eighty percent of their content needs to be about 231 00:15:28.830 --> 00:15:33.669 be to be marketing and for beb marketers and twenty percent can be about their 232 00:15:33.789 --> 00:15:37.820 expertise and throughout the course of that call, actually you just a gut check 233 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:41.179 on the fact that it I think that it needs to be more like fifty 234 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:46.139 fifty and and this was a lot of prodding by you guys, but you 235 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.940 know is there were six of us, the five evangelists and the coordinator or 236 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:52.690 social media person that's going to be organizing all this force, emily. They 237 00:15:52.730 --> 00:15:56.370 were like man, we were thinking more, you know, along the lines 238 00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.649 of fifty and it really challenge me to think. Okay, and why is 239 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:02.730 that? Why is that going to be more effective? And I think it's 240 00:16:02.730 --> 00:16:07.159 going to be more effective because it's going to allow us to be more authentic 241 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.120 and that. But that's a buzz word. People use that word all the 242 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:14.000 time. But I think in this case, if Kelsey is creating eighty percent, 243 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.399 if eighty percent of Kelsey's content that she's putting out through her personal profile 244 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.629 is about stuff that she knows nothing about, but she's just, you know, 245 00:16:21.789 --> 00:16:23.669 using it because it was an interview that you did on be tob grows 246 00:16:23.750 --> 00:16:27.669 or that I did for content camp, and she's going to try our best 247 00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:32.590 to put her spin on why she thinks this is valuable for the baby marketer. 248 00:16:32.710 --> 00:16:34.100 But the reality is it's going to be really tough because that's not her 249 00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:38.379 expertise. She's coming from a creative, you know, perspective and there might 250 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.500 be some episodes that lend themselves more to her expertise or to builds expertise than 251 00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.940 others, but for the most part, I mean we're talking to VP's of 252 00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:48.250 marketing and we're talking to people that are really deep in the weeds on this 253 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:53.049 stuff, and so by shifting to fifty it's giving us a little bit more 254 00:16:53.090 --> 00:16:57.009 breathing room. And the reality is, if five of us are posting ultimately 255 00:16:57.330 --> 00:17:00.929 three times a day, which is our goal for the next, you know, 256 00:17:00.169 --> 00:17:03.039 over the next six months, I want all five of US posting three 257 00:17:03.079 --> 00:17:07.400 times a day, which is fifteen posts a day coming from sweetfish personal profiles, 258 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.640 that's a lot of content. And if half of that is helpful for 259 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:18.190 the BEDB marketer and half of it is helpful for people that share our expertise 260 00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:21.269 or want to follow along our journey, I'm going to be talking, you 261 00:17:21.309 --> 00:17:23.950 know, fifty percent of the time about being a founder and the entrepreneur journey. 262 00:17:25.190 --> 00:17:29.750 Bills. Going to be talking fifty percent about ops and systems and structure 263 00:17:29.789 --> 00:17:33.339 and and maybe a little bit of finance. Finance gets super boring, so 264 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.220 we might we might have my rest set back to the little on the finance 265 00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:40.779 time. But but the other half of what we're all going to be talking 266 00:17:40.819 --> 00:17:45.690 about is content that's coming from content camp, from BDB, podcasting Qa, 267 00:17:45.890 --> 00:17:48.769 from our customer masterminds, from BB growth. You're going to be using, 268 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.089 you know, half of your time to talk. You know, it's either 269 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:56.650 your sales calls or your perspective on sales, and my initial thinking was, 270 00:17:56.930 --> 00:18:00.960 well, that's not smart because that's fifty percent of Logan's content. That is 271 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:04.160 not relevant for our buyers. But I think what is relevant to our buyers 272 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:10.519 is the fact that you're a human and understanding the context of what this guy 273 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.269 does for a living day to day and man half of his content is super 274 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:18.029 relevant to me because he's talking about bb marketing half the time and then the 275 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:21.190 other half I'm getting to see like, oh, how he approaches sales calls, 276 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:23.990 how he thinks about, you know, progressing deals forward. Oh, 277 00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:27.099 that's interesting, like I would have never thought about that. It's still interesting 278 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:33.180 and compelling. So moving over and shifting from eighty twenty to fifty again or 279 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:37.059 brand new at this, I might come back and and and change my entire 280 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:38.779 stance on this. It's going to be down the road, but it's going 281 00:18:38.779 --> 00:18:41.930 to be an evolving process. But we're going to come out of the gate 282 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:45.410 with fifty. So fifty, fifty percent of the time our evangelists are going 283 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.049 to be talking about their expertise, of their job function within our business. 284 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:52.690 Fifty percent of their time, they're going to be pulling from content we're doing 285 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:59.000 with pillar content and on that is specifically about bebb marketing and content that is 286 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.519 hyper, hyper relevant and helpful to a bebe marketer. Yeah, absolutely, 287 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.720 I think you make some good points and a good example. And Gary V 288 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.470 in, what makes a personal brand sticky that there's personal to it. Right. 289 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:15.589 It's not called a personal brand for for no reason. The other piece, 290 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:18.589 I was just talking with Joe Turnoff, who is a, you know, 291 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:25.220 very experienced veteran marketing leader, some time at big mare tech names. 292 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:27.740 We were talking about how the pendulum has kind of swung and he was kind 293 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:33.220 of pushing back on people going too far away from their product and service, 294 00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:36.500 which somewhat might argue, hey, that's kind of what you guys are saying. 295 00:19:36.579 --> 00:19:38.650 It's sweetfish that you're going to do with fifty percent of your content, 296 00:19:40.089 --> 00:19:42.769 but I think what he was saying is like people swung way over here, 297 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:48.650 but they've gated the content, like Oh, our founder has a book review 298 00:19:48.849 --> 00:19:51.049 and we're going to gate that and then we're going to do a right hook 299 00:19:51.049 --> 00:19:55.319 and put them into an str sequence. The difference between that and what Joe 300 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:59.440 was saying was a big pitfall and what we're actually doing is like, none 301 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.880 of that's going to be gated. It's going to be allow us to catch 302 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.990 catch more people who want to engage with the content, make our personal brands 303 00:20:07.069 --> 00:20:11.109 more sticky and more authentic. As much as that is a buzz worded, 304 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:14.309 it is true and it will also, you know, one of the things 305 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:18.750 I'm I was thinking about is, you know, I wear sales and somewhat 306 00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:22.420 the marketing hat here at sweetfish because I run sales, but I also host 307 00:20:22.539 --> 00:20:26.740 our podcast and I interview marketers all the time. And so for me, 308 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:30.460 when I do focus on my fifty percent of sales, I am going to 309 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:34.700 try to tie that to what what should marketers think about based on the reality 310 00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:38.250 for sales? and Bill can do the same thing. He can talk about 311 00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:42.970 finance. But okay, now, if you're a marketer, had that conversation 312 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:48.210 with your CFO Kelsey, talking about, Hey, this is how your creative 313 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:52.599 director is probably thinking and how you can work with them better as a marketer. 314 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.960 And so I think if people are saying, Mayne, fifty percent sounds 315 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.480 like a lot. It's not just kind of wasted content that is not still 316 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.950 connecting with your Bire if you think about it strategically. The next thing I 317 00:21:04.109 --> 00:21:07.789 know we want to talk about is the different types of content setting yourself up 318 00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:11.910 with with an engine. So it's not just we could do a bunch of 319 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:15.190 content right now. I think this will be pretty short and then we want 320 00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:19.539 to dive into points of view. But let's talk about types and channels and 321 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:22.819 just the process we went through their man yeah, so, so first, 322 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:27.099 I mean we've gone hyper focused on Linkedin. We were kind of scattered earlier 323 00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:30.579 this year even we were trying to do twitter and we were trying to do 324 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:33.089 instagram and we're trying to all these different things. Now are hyper focused on 325 00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:37.809 Linkedin. So when you hyper focus on something, you can understand the nuances 326 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.970 of how that particular platform works and the type of content that really works there. 327 00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:47.200 And so for us we've identified linkedin decks. So and we're going to 328 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:52.279 do multiple templates of Linkedin deck. So different styles of Linkedin decks. graphically 329 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.960 they're going to look different. They're going to share different types of content. 330 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.119 Some example, so we're going to be sharing like the top mines and ABM 331 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:06.109 or the top mines in the man Jin. So organizing or will have some 332 00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:08.190 decks that focus on that. Will have some that maybe our timely or their 333 00:22:08.230 --> 00:22:12.309 seasonal references. So we'll have a deck related to the Oscars or the NFL 334 00:22:12.390 --> 00:22:17.299 draft, like our friend Blanka Ma all did. Will have decks that talk 335 00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:21.940 about mistakes that you should avoid, three tips from a certain influencer, three 336 00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:26.099 things you should know about a particular topic. Lists Post so, top books, 337 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:29.900 top podcast top conferences, that kind of thing. Linkedin tips, be 338 00:22:30.049 --> 00:22:33.329 Tob podcasting tips, content marketing tips, content based networking tips, again, 339 00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:37.490 seeing how this rolls up to our themes. When you when you have your 340 00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:41.130 themes to find, it gets much easier to figure out. Okay, what 341 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:44.759 type of content we want to create when we get to this part of the 342 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.400 process, which is identifying your content type. So those are linked index. 343 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.480 The second content type is microvideos. We've talked about this before, but we're 344 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.119 going to be pulling these microvideos from our pillar content that were recording for a 345 00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.230 lots of different mediums, podcasts, but we're doing it via video, so 346 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:04.390 we can repurpose this content in a ton of different ways. So content camp 347 00:23:04.470 --> 00:23:08.349 customer masterminds be to be growth. BE WE PODCASTING QA, your sales calls, 348 00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.150 all of those things. We are going to be able to turn those 349 00:23:11.269 --> 00:23:17.140 into lots of micro videos. Text posts. This is the third content type. 350 00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:19.460 So we're going to be looking at our existing blog content and saying, 351 00:23:19.700 --> 00:23:23.380 how can we turn our existing blog content into, you know, these short 352 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:29.329 or long form text only posts that perform really well on Linkedin. We make 353 00:23:29.369 --> 00:23:32.650 sure that we don't put the link in the actual post itself. We put 354 00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:34.490 it in the first comment because we know that's a linked in best practice when 355 00:23:34.490 --> 00:23:38.250 it comes to content creation. Another type of text post could be a sail 356 00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:42.200 your story. This could also be a video if we talk about a particular 357 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:48.119 failure story on one of our pieces of pillar content, for example like sweet 358 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.000 talk, our internal podcast that the world doesn't get to listen to the whole 359 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.359 thing. It's just for our internal team. But if there's a particular fill 360 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:59.549 your story that bill shares whenever Ryan's interviewing bill, we can then use that 361 00:23:59.589 --> 00:24:03.150 as a video. But it could also be a text only post. And 362 00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:06.230 and so again, text posts could be round ups. I've been doing like 363 00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:10.220 the best books, best podcasts. So there can be some overlap and like 364 00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.099 what you do a deck for and what you do a text post for this. 365 00:24:12.259 --> 00:24:17.059 Fourth one is audio grams. So you've had some calls where, you 366 00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:19.740 know, we didn't get video. Maybe the the guest wasn't comfortable being on 367 00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:23.730 video or for whatever reason you don't get video, can still do those posts 368 00:24:23.769 --> 00:24:27.289 like what I see Chris Walker doing a lot, and it's basically just a 369 00:24:27.450 --> 00:24:33.569 still graphic with maybe a headline and some cool image and then you just see, 370 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.049 like I'm wavefilelmost moving. I don't necessarily, you know, love those, 371 00:24:37.289 --> 00:24:41.200 but it is a content type that we're going to be doing whenever we 372 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.119 don't have actual video. And then another one that I don't think is talked 373 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.599 about, especially on Linkedin, but I'm seeing Scott Barker do a lot of 374 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.269 these and they're performing really well. It's memes and gifts, and so we 375 00:24:52.710 --> 00:25:00.150 do this exceptional well on instagram and Emily Wellman, our so social media person, 376 00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:03.990 is going to crush when it comes to gifts and memes on Linkedin. 377 00:25:04.390 --> 00:25:07.819 She's already got some frameworks that she's cooking up for how we're going to do 378 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.980 it. The thing I like about gifts and memes is you don't actually have 379 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.980 to go very heavy on the on the caption above it on the text post 380 00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:18.700 that goes along with it. It can sometimes be one word or or just 381 00:25:18.859 --> 00:25:23.089 a simple sentence, because the gift or memes weeks for itself and they actually 382 00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:29.650 end up getting really, really good content. So and then inspiring, educational 383 00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:34.289 or motivational videos curated from other sites. So I see people posting videos from 384 00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:40.079 Cheddar or in the past I've posted videos for my buddy Stephen mackey or different 385 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:45.160 people in leadership. So you can pull those videos from instagram or from other 386 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.440 channels and then post them and obviously want to credit that person in the in 387 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.829 the text caption above the post to say hey, man, I really, 388 00:25:52.869 --> 00:25:56.589 I really loved this. You know, this video from my friend Stephen Mackie 389 00:25:56.670 --> 00:25:59.789 or this was hilarious. And you know, Cheddar does a good job of 390 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:03.380 putting their their water mark on all of their videos. So you're just getting 391 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:07.900 them more exposure by sharing the content. I wouldn't get too tripped up about 392 00:26:07.180 --> 00:26:11.619 you stealing content, but those kind of videos, especially if you're pulling it 393 00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:17.579 from sources of viral content. So there's a lot of accounts on instagram that 394 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.289 curate videos that have gone viral already. So you know it's going to resonate 395 00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:25.890 with people and then you can put a spin on why this is funny or 396 00:26:26.009 --> 00:26:29.690 relevant for your the people that you are trying to reach. On linkedin. 397 00:26:30.289 --> 00:26:33.240 Absolutely, and I love what you you kind of broke down at the beginning. 398 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.720 They're talking about different content types, as you talked about different ways that 399 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.720 we think about linked index, because again, what we want to do is 400 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:48.349 create the structure so that creativity can flourish and content doesn't get bottlenecked. And 401 00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:53.349 so, you know, thinking about content types is not just video, audio, 402 00:26:53.829 --> 00:26:57.349 text, graphic kind of you know, what we think of as the 403 00:26:57.589 --> 00:27:02.779 media type. But it's then breaking it down from there. What sort of 404 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.740 things can we do? You know, Gary V has done cartoons, he's 405 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:10.539 done slide decks in kind of, you know, handwritten format, but then 406 00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:15.220 slide x within and you start to see the tree branch out and then it's 407 00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:18.650 like okay, now I have a framework. And then not every piece of 408 00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:22.569 content is always going to fit each of those different types, but you have 409 00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:26.369 options to pull from. And then in Trello or a sauna, whatever project 410 00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:30.559 management tool you're using, or if you're using a content operations platform, you 411 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.039 have different labels to make it very easy to say right, this makes sense 412 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:37.880 for this it goes down this trail for production and comes back for review. 413 00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.680 Will get into a little bit more about the systems we built around this, 414 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.349 but I want to make sure we double down on this next point about points 415 00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:51.710 of view, because this was probably the most valuable part of our hour long, 416 00:27:51.789 --> 00:27:55.150 or maybe it was a little bit more kickoff call to our evangelist program 417 00:27:55.630 --> 00:28:00.900 was identifying the unique points of view of each of our evangelists. And so 418 00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:04.380 you know what the question that we asked are, you know, to each 419 00:28:04.460 --> 00:28:08.339 individual, what are the five to seven things you find yourself talking about a 420 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:12.289 lot? What are the five to seven things that are recurring themes in the 421 00:28:12.369 --> 00:28:18.329 conversations that you have, not just within work, not just within your function, 422 00:28:18.769 --> 00:28:22.450 because some of those will roll up and some won't, necessary serily. 423 00:28:22.809 --> 00:28:26.170 And so examples of this would be, you know, Gary Va is. 424 00:28:26.369 --> 00:28:29.880 It talks a lot about empathy, he talks a lot about patients, he 425 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.480 talks a lot about positivity in a lot of different facets and in a lot 426 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.880 of different context and he ties that to entrepreneurship, which is a theme that 427 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:42.190 he talks about a lot, and sometimes it's just related to life. You 428 00:28:42.269 --> 00:28:45.150 were really excited as we started to unpack this, man, so I want 429 00:28:45.150 --> 00:28:48.990 to give you some time to talk about points of view here. Yeah, 430 00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:52.430 you know, I keep going back to what anny Krestodina told me about a 431 00:28:52.470 --> 00:28:53.910 year ago. He said, James, you know so many people want to 432 00:28:53.910 --> 00:29:00.819 be thought leaders but they don't want to have original thoughts and it's so simple 433 00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:04.339 it sounds it sounds like such a Duh. Well, of course you can't 434 00:29:04.339 --> 00:29:08.299 be a thought leader if you don't have original thoughts, but it's all too 435 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:14.930 common for especially when brands are trying to make their logo the thought leader. 436 00:29:15.289 --> 00:29:18.210 I think that's the first mistake. I don't think logos can be thought leaders. 437 00:29:18.289 --> 00:29:22.529 They are obviously there are obviously exceptions to every role, but I think 438 00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:26.880 you're going to have much more luck trying to do what gone has done, 439 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:32.319 what outreach is done, what drift has done, and evangelizing the people within 440 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.839 your business. But you have to define these points of view and I think 441 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.029 early in the process. Why I think this was so strategic, why I 442 00:29:41.109 --> 00:29:45.109 think it was so important, it's because it's sets a foundation and each of 443 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:49.869 our evangelists have to get clear about the five to ten things that they cared 444 00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:56.059 deeply about. These could be mistakes that they see the industry making they should 445 00:29:56.140 --> 00:30:00.140 they could be things that maybe they see that people aren't doing but they should 446 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:03.740 be doing, and so I want to go through. I've got the DOC 447 00:30:03.859 --> 00:30:07.890 pull up right here for some of my points of view. I put down 448 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:12.130 your podcast should not be about your expertise. This comes up, you know, 449 00:30:12.250 --> 00:30:17.289 a lot with early parts of our customer experience, when we're trying to 450 00:30:17.289 --> 00:30:21.049 figure out the name for our customer shows. It tends to get really good 451 00:30:21.089 --> 00:30:22.799 engage when whenever I talk about this, somethingkedin. So this is going to 452 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.720 be a recurring theme for me. I'm going to be talking a lot about 453 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.240 different examples of why your podcast should not be your expertise. That is a 454 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:36.549 point of view that I have. This very different than what most people think. 455 00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:40.710 Most people think that your podcast should be about your expertise, and so 456 00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:45.150 what I believe is actually pretty counterintuitive and there's a lot of different contexts and 457 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:49.819 examples that I can that I can talk about, because talking about something over 458 00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:53.660 and over and over again, multiple times is actually what makes it sticky. 459 00:30:55.220 --> 00:30:59.460 And so by defining our points of view. We're saying, okay, these 460 00:30:59.500 --> 00:31:00.740 are the things we need to talk about over and over and over again, 461 00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:04.890 not just a one off post. The next one is this concept of building 462 00:31:04.890 --> 00:31:08.809 a contributor network. We're trying to build a media company here and we don't 463 00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:12.650 have enough expertise inside our own four walls to be able to do that. 464 00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:18.089 I think every company should be trying to build a media company and you're likely 465 00:31:18.170 --> 00:31:21.440 not going to have the expertise you should need inside your four wall. Also, 466 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:26.559 by building a contributor network and people that you can consistently tap their expertise 467 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.599 and feature them in your content, you're putting out great content without necessarily having 468 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.910 to have that knowledge internal. And so this is something I don't hear a 469 00:31:34.910 --> 00:31:37.509 lot of people talking about, but it's it's a point of view that I 470 00:31:37.549 --> 00:31:41.509 have and something that we're executing on. So I'm going to be talking about 471 00:31:41.509 --> 00:31:45.150 that a lot. I think you should have people outside of your company cohosting 472 00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:49.380 your podcast, which is super seems super weird and very counterintuitive. Wait a 473 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:52.859 minute, what are you talking about? People outside my company should cause my 474 00:31:52.980 --> 00:31:56.740 podcast, but that's that's one of my points of view and I'm going to 475 00:31:56.779 --> 00:31:59.339 be talking about that over and over and over again. Bill, our CEO. 476 00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:02.650 He talks about levers and leverage a lot, so he wrote that down. 477 00:32:04.009 --> 00:32:07.289 He talks about the ten percent rule. There's a lot of different contexts 478 00:32:07.369 --> 00:32:09.970 around the ten percent rule, so he's going to be unpacking that idea. 479 00:32:10.049 --> 00:32:14.450 So these are just some examples of some of our points of view. What 480 00:32:14.490 --> 00:32:15.440 were you going to say, loom, and I was just going to say, 481 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.039 you know, another example from my end, as I tend to lean 482 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:24.400 towards ungated content, over gated content, kind of like the conversation you had 483 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.910 with Chris Walker in a previous episode comparing and contrasting to managin versus legion. 484 00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:36.670 So those sorts of things that you feel like your team members kind of plants 485 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:38.950 a flag at, draw a line in the sand. What are those things? 486 00:32:39.069 --> 00:32:43.269 And so I want to give people a few action items here. A 487 00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:47.299 question you can use to draw this out of your evangelists are questions like what 488 00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:52.940 is a commonly held belief in your industry or within your functional role that you 489 00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:59.049 passionately disagree with, and that passionately disagree usually gets them, you know, 490 00:32:59.289 --> 00:33:02.130 just jumping right on something, and you know I love what one of our 491 00:33:02.410 --> 00:33:07.250 writers to me, Bauer said recently, when he's listening to podcasts and here's 492 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:10.410 the tone and the inflection of someone's voice goes up. That's where there's some 493 00:33:10.529 --> 00:33:14.240 good content, that's where there's some passion in the voice, that sort of 494 00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.440 stuff, and so that's a way that you can pull these out. The 495 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:20.440 other thing that you may need to do, and I alluded to this earlier, 496 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.960 you know bill, our CEO. He had a lot of points of 497 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:27.230 view because he's got a lot of experience and a lot of wisdom, and 498 00:33:27.269 --> 00:33:30.190 there were maybe, you know, some of US started with three to five 499 00:33:30.269 --> 00:33:34.789 and he had ten very quickly, and his original thought, because he's not 500 00:33:35.029 --> 00:33:37.589 necessarily used to thinking about how do you take that point of view and turn 501 00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:40.779 it into a piece of content, is well, how am I going to 502 00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:44.940 do three posts a day, five days a week, when I only have 503 00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:47.220 these ten? And we had to coach him on the fact that, okay, 504 00:33:47.299 --> 00:33:52.500 this idea that you have about pushing decisions down to the lowest level within 505 00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:57.730 your organization, more often than not there are at least fifty different ways that 506 00:33:57.809 --> 00:34:01.970 that plays itself out and that's where your content gets depth, it gets meat 507 00:34:02.089 --> 00:34:06.930 on the bone is where you take a specific story of where this happened when 508 00:34:06.970 --> 00:34:09.440 I was in this role, where where this applies here. And it's kind 509 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.760 of like you know, a lot of salespeople kind of throw all of their 510 00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.880 value, different value props and different objection handling out in one email and it 511 00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:21.199 gets no engagement. I've heard great, you know, people that I followed 512 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.630 from a sales per sective say that you need to you need to break that 513 00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:27.670 up, you need to deliver it little by little, and so I think 514 00:34:27.710 --> 00:34:30.670 a lot of people have a lot of content between their ears, but they 515 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.510 don't think about it this way. They think that, man, if I 516 00:34:34.630 --> 00:34:37.349 get to granular, if I get to in the weeds, this isn't going 517 00:34:37.469 --> 00:34:40.059 to be valuable. I need to keep it at a high level. And 518 00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:44.579 when I see people talk about boring, be to be content. It's not 519 00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:49.500 that the entertainment value is boring. It's boring because it's the same thing. 520 00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:52.929 It's it's the power of digital marketing. Or we need to be empathetic in 521 00:34:53.050 --> 00:34:58.769 sales. It's okay if you're passionate about empathy and sales, break down a 522 00:34:59.010 --> 00:35:01.489 cold call, breakdown and email it. You know the way that Josh Braun 523 00:35:01.610 --> 00:35:06.250 does and his linkedin content, that sort of stuff. So if you have 524 00:35:06.769 --> 00:35:12.360 members of your evangelist program that are not used to breaking it down into tactical 525 00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.480 content, you might need to coach them, but hopefully that gives you some 526 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:20.280 language to use with them and some ways to extract some of that content from 527 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.070 them. Yeah, I like that. I like that you. You said 528 00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:25.869 you know the questions that prompt this from your evangelist. I want to make 529 00:35:25.989 --> 00:35:30.590 this episode really tactical and Super Helpful. So if you're building a program like 530 00:35:30.710 --> 00:35:35.230 this, I love asking that question of what what is something in your job 531 00:35:35.429 --> 00:35:38.659 function or in our industry? What's a commonly held belief that you just passionately 532 00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:43.940 disagree with? Another one is what are some common mistakes that you see our 533 00:35:44.019 --> 00:35:47.179 customers making over and over and over again? That will will get people talking, 534 00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:50.969 especially to folks in your evangelist Pro Gan that come from the sales side 535 00:35:50.969 --> 00:35:54.449 of the house or customer success. They're interacting customers all the time. Another 536 00:35:54.489 --> 00:35:59.010 question you could ask is what do you wish our customers or other people in 537 00:35:59.050 --> 00:36:02.929 your job function would start doing that you just don't see very many people doing. 538 00:36:02.969 --> 00:36:08.280 Again, you're asking them action oriented things, things that you people should 539 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:13.239 stop doing or start doing, and you're getting them speaking from a place of 540 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.000 passion. When you get those things out of them, you can then document 541 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:21.510 those as okay, these are their points of view. Now you can go 542 00:36:21.630 --> 00:36:27.150 one level deeper and as you're developing their editorial calendar for that specific person, 543 00:36:27.590 --> 00:36:30.949 you can eat. Like you said, there's fifty different ways that you can 544 00:36:30.070 --> 00:36:36.139 unpack this idea of their their point of view, because it can manifest itself 545 00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:38.940 in a lot of different contexts. And you can talk about the exceptions to 546 00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:42.500 that, to that point of view. And you know, I feel super 547 00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:45.139 passionate about this, but it's not always the case case. Here's the few 548 00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:50.250 exceptions where it isn't. Here's an example of here's something recently that happened that 549 00:36:50.289 --> 00:36:52.250 made me think of it. Here's how it impacted me earlier in my career. 550 00:36:52.809 --> 00:36:57.489 Here's are some things that I'm, you know, doing now to prevent 551 00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:00.289 the rest of our team from falling into this mistake. I mean, you 552 00:37:00.449 --> 00:37:04.039 just see how there's a ton of different ways to unpack a simple point of 553 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.599 view, and so asking those questions that we just laid out there, I 554 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:12.480 think are going to be super helpful for anybody wanting to build a program like 555 00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.429 this, because these getting these points of view, these POB's documented, is, 556 00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:21.389 I would say, a critical, critical step of this program. Yeah, 557 00:37:21.469 --> 00:37:24.869 absolutely, because it's something that you're going to continually draw on and getting 558 00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:29.349 it out of them and documenting it. You know, I know bill just 559 00:37:29.510 --> 00:37:32.380 mentioned. Okay, now that I have this in mind, I'm going to 560 00:37:32.539 --> 00:37:37.380 have it more top of mind so that when things come up I'm going to 561 00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:40.059 put that somewhere. And so from here I want to get into the tactics 562 00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:44.139 of how we're starting to execute on this. Now there are probably be several 563 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:47.610 iterations. Will well share our journey as we go here. But one of 564 00:37:47.650 --> 00:37:53.690 the pieces is a lotting time, giving your evangelist time to dedicate to content 565 00:37:53.809 --> 00:37:59.239 creation. You also want to make it easy to leverage the things where they're 566 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.559 already investing time. We talked about that, like pulling from my sales calls. 567 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:07.199 You've even pulled recordings from just consulting calls that you're doing with friends or 568 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.320 people that aren't are customers. But you're talking about the things that roll up 569 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.030 to our content themes. The other thing is that, you know, we 570 00:38:15.230 --> 00:38:17.550 now have a and you could do any any tool with this. We're actually 571 00:38:17.550 --> 00:38:21.789 in the process of switching project management tools, but right now we have a 572 00:38:21.829 --> 00:38:25.269 TRELO board. That is our social media board and there is a spot where 573 00:38:25.309 --> 00:38:30.780 I can drop stuff that is going to go and turn into micro videos or 574 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:35.059 go into the post production process. But we also have a spot there, 575 00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:38.619 and I've saved a shortcut to this trelloboard right on the home screen of my 576 00:38:38.780 --> 00:38:43.449 phone so that I can tap it when I have a thought, when I'm 577 00:38:43.570 --> 00:38:45.369 walking the dog, when I just hop off a sales call, when, 578 00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:49.409 you know, whatever the case is, I can grab my own I can 579 00:38:49.449 --> 00:38:52.090 tap that and I can add to the checklist, you know, not something 580 00:38:52.130 --> 00:38:55.280 that I've already recorded. You want to make that easy to get into the 581 00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.320 system. But you also want to have a dumping ground for your evangelist that 582 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:04.159 is centrally located, that is easy for them to get to, where they 583 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:09.949 can drop ideas for potential podcast episodes or that can turn into other pieces of 584 00:39:10.030 --> 00:39:14.230 pillar content, so that you don't lose them, because when you sit down 585 00:39:14.550 --> 00:39:19.190 and you start to brainstorm about what content should we create, it feels very 586 00:39:19.349 --> 00:39:24.300 contrived. Sometimes it feels very it's unnatural, and that's because are your best 587 00:39:24.380 --> 00:39:30.260 content comes from a place of of creativity, and I'm not saying like super 588 00:39:30.340 --> 00:39:31.940 creative, but I'm saying it's a it's an original thought. It's something that 589 00:39:32.059 --> 00:39:37.019 occurs to you in the shower or while you're walking the dog, because you 590 00:39:37.099 --> 00:39:39.809 know, there's great episodes. I've heard before about the mental space that we're 591 00:39:39.849 --> 00:39:45.130 in when we have great ideas and usually that's not the easiest place to then 592 00:39:45.289 --> 00:39:49.369 document that and it's that disconnect where a lot of teams aren't able to get 593 00:39:49.449 --> 00:39:52.599 the content out of their team members. so by doing something like this, 594 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.599 having everybody put a short cut on the home screen of their phone to that 595 00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.239 board or that list that they can just add to and then come back to 596 00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.880 later, you're going to have a lot of content that doesn't just die before 597 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.829 it ever reaches anyone. So that that's a that's been a big one for 598 00:40:07.909 --> 00:40:13.190 me, man. Yeah, so I love that you and I love so 599 00:40:13.269 --> 00:40:15.630 much about everything that we're talking about. The other thing that I want to 600 00:40:15.670 --> 00:40:20.389 get into you. You'd mentioned something earlier about like the way we're thinking about 601 00:40:20.389 --> 00:40:24.219 our editorial calendar. It's, you know, lots of puzzle pieces on the 602 00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:30.219 table and letting it you know, letting it come together, instead of defining 603 00:40:30.380 --> 00:40:32.860 what the outcome will be from the Star Art. So see a lot of 604 00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:38.690 people that when they're mapping their editorial calendar, they they're thinking what is the 605 00:40:38.809 --> 00:40:43.730 end product going to be, and we just think about it fundamentally different. 606 00:40:44.050 --> 00:40:46.210 We're recording, like you said, we're recording all these things throughout our day 607 00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:51.480 or internal meetings, sales calls, Bauby, growth interviews, content camp, 608 00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:55.199 you know, recordings, all of these different things we're doing get recorded and 609 00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:59.880 then it gets it gets dumped into this trail board that you just mentioned and 610 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:05.429 we're not necessarily thinking on the front end of recording that content how it's going 611 00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:07.269 to be sliced and dice. We just know we need to create a crap 612 00:41:07.309 --> 00:41:10.590 kind of content and we've got frameworks for each of these different content types. 613 00:41:10.869 --> 00:41:15.869 So we're going to put something in the front end of the system and through 614 00:41:15.989 --> 00:41:19.260 our process we're going to figure out what are the best types of content that 615 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:22.460 can come out of this. Is this going to be a good longform blog 616 00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:25.820 post? No, because we didn't really plan strategically for a keyword focus there. 617 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:30.300 So instead let's do a Linkedin deck and an episode of you know, 618 00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:32.929 and maybe a MC feel some ten or fifteen micro videos from this. So 619 00:41:34.010 --> 00:41:37.730 so I think the way we think about our editorial calendar is interesting here. 620 00:41:37.969 --> 00:41:40.650 You have anything to add to that part? Yeah, I think about and 621 00:41:40.849 --> 00:41:45.449 I think the pushback might be well, if you're just focused on creating a 622 00:41:45.530 --> 00:41:47.840 ton of content, how are you how are you making sure that that's going 623 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.239 to map to results, that that is going to reach the audience that you 624 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.320 want to it's going to be used in the right ways? And that comes 625 00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:59.119 the from the foundational work that we talked about earlier in this episode. That 626 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:04.110 was part of this kickoff call. Identifying our pillar pieces of content are themes, 627 00:42:04.190 --> 00:42:07.469 because we know our buy your persona, and then having a framework for 628 00:42:07.550 --> 00:42:10.750 the different types of content and the different channels, which, again we've identified 629 00:42:10.789 --> 00:42:15.940 because we know where our buyer personas hang out. We've we test different types 630 00:42:15.980 --> 00:42:21.380 of content and what performs well on different platforms because of the algorithm and because 631 00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:24.500 of the user behavior. And so it's because of that framework that then, 632 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:29.900 all right, let's dump a lot of puzzle pieces onto the table. Now 633 00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:32.889 we're not just grabbing different puzzle boxes from here, there and everywhere. It's 634 00:42:32.969 --> 00:42:37.090 coming out of things that we know to the come from where, that are 635 00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:40.929 going to map to the themes that we've identified that are going to serve our 636 00:42:42.050 --> 00:42:46.360 audience well and map to the points of view and the expertise of our our 637 00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:51.519 evangelists. Now there's going to be some overlap. There are sometimes not those 638 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.320 sorts of things and then what we've been doing is all right, it kind 639 00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:59.030 of becomes this dumping ground. But then we have some guard rails for our 640 00:42:59.150 --> 00:43:04.750 social media coordinator who is putting together than the calendar. Okay, we want 641 00:43:04.909 --> 00:43:07.829 this mix of stuff that is helpful exactly to our buy. Our persona is 642 00:43:07.869 --> 00:43:12.349 more tied to our service and they're their day to day. We want this 643 00:43:12.590 --> 00:43:16.380 mix of, you know, personal experience, kind of more personal brand functional 644 00:43:16.820 --> 00:43:21.860 fertise, and then we kind of want this mix of video versus audio, 645 00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:24.940 versus written and so that we're not just like Oh, all this week it 646 00:43:25.059 --> 00:43:30.010 was nothing but the same sort of micro videos and then our audience isn't seeing 647 00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:34.889 kind of refreshing content from us in different types. So we know we want 648 00:43:34.929 --> 00:43:37.650 a mix of types. We know the mix that we want of content that's 649 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:44.440 kind of on the nose versus from our personal evangelists point of view. And 650 00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:47.639 so, therefore, as our social media team gets all of these pieces, 651 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.960 they know how to piece it together, as opposed to all right, June 652 00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.750 one, what are we going to talk about June to what are we going 653 00:43:54.789 --> 00:44:00.389 to push out? And that process just becomes so heavy and bogged down that 654 00:44:00.510 --> 00:44:06.789 we see teams, I see bb marketing teams, take months to, you 655 00:44:06.869 --> 00:44:09.539 know, map out their editorial calendar. This is a way to fast track 656 00:44:09.579 --> 00:44:13.300 it. If you come at it from the other end, we're not just 657 00:44:13.420 --> 00:44:16.820 saying be Willie Nilly and just post whatever. We're not saying that. We're 658 00:44:16.820 --> 00:44:22.619 saying you have a system, that the strategy is just built in and then 659 00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:27.809 you you accelerate the process of getting stuff out that that maps there. So 660 00:44:28.530 --> 00:44:30.289 that's something I get fired up about because I see a lot of teams just 661 00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:34.769 get in their own way there. Yep, I want to close this down 662 00:44:34.889 --> 00:44:38.639 by talking about three three final things. The first one is frequency. We 663 00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:43.360 mentioned it earlier, but our goal within six months. I think, honestly, 664 00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:45.599 we were talking about this last night. I think we're going to get 665 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:49.559 here a lot faster than six months. We want all five of our evangelists 666 00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.829 to be posting three times a day on Linkedin. Now that seems crazy, 667 00:44:53.309 --> 00:44:58.030 but when you look at the people that are crushing on Linkedin right now, 668 00:44:58.110 --> 00:45:04.269 they're putting out content two or three times a day and that content is freaking 669 00:45:04.469 --> 00:45:07.820 good. It's not not. Not Everything you know POPs and gets over a 670 00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:12.780 thousand engagements, but when you're putting out fifteen, sixteen, seventeen pieces of 671 00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:16.300 content a week on your personal profile, it's a there's a good chance that 672 00:45:16.539 --> 00:45:20.739 three or four of those pieces are really going to pop. And it's the 673 00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:24.170 same with why we're so passionate about doing volume in the podcast channel. If 674 00:45:24.210 --> 00:45:28.809 you put out a long lot of content in the podcast channel, that means 675 00:45:29.130 --> 00:45:32.329 that more people are apt to want to engage with a piece of your content 676 00:45:32.449 --> 00:45:37.199 more frequently. So when we put out multiple episodes a day on BB growth, 677 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:40.239 you don't have to like every episode that we put out, and I'm 678 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:44.039 okay with you not liking every episode that you put out, but if we 679 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.199 put out three a day versus one a day, you're likely going to want 680 00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:50.590 to listen to an episode of be a big growth that day, even if 681 00:45:50.630 --> 00:45:53.909 two of them were not relevant to you. One of them would be exactly 682 00:45:54.230 --> 00:45:58.869 versus. Hey, we haven't. We have a podcast episode every two weeks 683 00:45:59.150 --> 00:46:01.829 and then someone sees the headline. That doesn't doesn't relate to them and they 684 00:46:01.869 --> 00:46:06.340 want to skip that episode. You've now gone a month before you've reached that 685 00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:10.500 listener. It's not about the other piece that volume gives you is more feedback. 686 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:15.059 You know, you were talking with another member of our team who's getting 687 00:46:15.380 --> 00:46:19.010 used to posting on linked in. Very first post, what if it sucks, 688 00:46:19.210 --> 00:46:22.050 and you said something my thought was very useful to folks and eye opening 689 00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:25.489 to people's well, if it sucks, no one's going to see it because 690 00:46:25.849 --> 00:46:29.289 it's not going to get good reached, and so you don't need to feel 691 00:46:29.329 --> 00:46:31.530 bad about it, and Gary v talks about this all the time. You 692 00:46:31.690 --> 00:46:36.840 get feedback, you get more real time. What what are people wanting? 693 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.360 What are people more hungry for? What works well in the Algorithm? You 694 00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.440 know, we were just talking about, Hey, we want to post gifts, 695 00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.670 but we know that historically image posts on Linkedin haven't done well. So 696 00:46:46.710 --> 00:46:50.989 if we're doing this a ton, we're going to have more content that we 697 00:46:51.070 --> 00:46:53.989 can do in a similar style. And Upload One as a document and just 698 00:46:54.230 --> 00:46:58.710 because we created it as a pdf and it can go into the platform differently 699 00:46:58.909 --> 00:47:01.739 and one is an image, very similar post, and test those sorts of 700 00:47:01.820 --> 00:47:07.900 things on the algorithm versus organically to and you know, and not spending a 701 00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:10.940 ton of money on ads and then trying to see what works. And there's 702 00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:15.369 been a bunch of money dumped in. So volume helps you with your organic 703 00:47:15.489 --> 00:47:21.409 and your paid social channels to be able to iterate more quickly therefore get better 704 00:47:21.489 --> 00:47:23.650 results. Yes, we saw I wanted a first touch on frequency. So 705 00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:27.889 we're starting. We're not coming out of the gate with three posts today. 706 00:47:28.210 --> 00:47:30.880 We're coming out of the gate three posts a week. So we're going to 707 00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:37.039 be doing fifteen posts collectively a week and will eventually be transitioning to fifteen posts 708 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:40.000 a day between our five evangelists. That will obviously get more as we get 709 00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:44.630 more people on our team. We've already got three or four people outside of 710 00:47:44.670 --> 00:47:47.349 the current group of evangelists that have told me that they want to be a 711 00:47:47.469 --> 00:47:52.469 part of this. So it's really fun to just from an employee engagement standpoint, 712 00:47:52.630 --> 00:47:58.510 seeing that inviting your employees into this makes them more loyal to your company 713 00:47:58.550 --> 00:48:02.300 because they're helping propel the brand to the market place. And I can imagine 714 00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:07.820 that if, if you're being respected enough as an employee to say hey, 715 00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:12.739 we want we want you to be advocating for us through your linkedin profile, 716 00:48:13.570 --> 00:48:16.250 we trust you, we love what you have to say, that is going 717 00:48:16.369 --> 00:48:20.570 to make them not want to leave your company. Now, obviously that doesn't 718 00:48:20.570 --> 00:48:23.809 mean that they won't ever leave, but it's hard to believe Chris or lab 719 00:48:23.889 --> 00:48:30.119 or, Devin read or Sarah Brazier leaving Gong anytime soon because Gong is really 720 00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.920 put them on the map and they've made them celebrities. Now the other cases 721 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:38.159 that Dave gearhart did leave drift right and and so he you know, drifted 722 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:43.309 him a huge solid by helping him and build his personal brand and then he 723 00:48:43.309 --> 00:48:47.230 left. And that's okay because now drift has mark Colen's they've got DC still, 724 00:48:47.349 --> 00:48:52.949 their CEO. Got Multiple people at drift that can carry that mantle forward 725 00:48:52.190 --> 00:48:58.179 because they didn't hedge all of their bets solely on one person. So anyway, 726 00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:01.019 go frequently and have multiple people in this program. It should not be 727 00:49:01.059 --> 00:49:05.820 built around one person and that one person or the and those that collection of 728 00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:09.449 people should be putting out content multiple times a day. The tools that we 729 00:49:09.570 --> 00:49:13.250 use, I don't want to camp out here too long. We use a 730 00:49:13.329 --> 00:49:15.530 tool called shield. Is it shield APP? Not a eye? Is that 731 00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:20.369 the URL? Yeah, shield APP DOT AI. Full disclosure. They are 732 00:49:20.369 --> 00:49:23.559 a sponsor of B tob growth here, but we definitely recommend them because it 733 00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:30.519 has taken the analytics we had been doing very manually with our linkedin organic reach 734 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:35.039 in a Google Sheet and just automated a ton of that. And so what 735 00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:38.989 shield does is allows you to individually and buy a team, break down your 736 00:49:39.110 --> 00:49:44.150 post, look at hashtags that are performing well, look at your follower count, 737 00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:46.110 look at your engagement rates, all of those sorts of thing in a 738 00:49:46.110 --> 00:49:51.150 dashboard without a bunch of manual input. We actually have a Promo Code B 739 00:49:51.349 --> 00:49:54.019 to be growth, all SMUSH together, all caps that you can get a 740 00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:57.940 discount there. But the purpose here is not to get, you know, 741 00:49:58.179 --> 00:50:00.500 sponsor traffic there, but it's something that's take on a lot lift off of 742 00:50:00.739 --> 00:50:05.659 our team to see what's working what's not on it. But it's specifically for 743 00:50:06.179 --> 00:50:12.650 Linkedin organic reach analytics. So v DOT IO, veed dot io, is 744 00:50:12.690 --> 00:50:15.849 how we make all of our micro videos. We used to have a more 745 00:50:15.010 --> 00:50:21.409 in depth process that was more manual than we recently found veed and V it 746 00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:24.639 has been saving Jeremy, our manager of audio and video, a ton of 747 00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:30.360 time and the contractors a ton of time using this tool. So that's going 748 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:34.199 to be super helpful for making micro videos. Casted is a great tool. 749 00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:37.550 There again, full disclosure. I think that they're sponsor of the show's well 750 00:50:37.789 --> 00:50:43.309 making audio snippets and audiograms, but it's casted and then descript. So descript 751 00:50:43.510 --> 00:50:47.869 does transcriptions and you can actually edit your audio by editing the transcription, which 752 00:50:47.869 --> 00:50:51.860 is really interesting. So I was talking to my friend Dylan Hey, that 753 00:50:52.019 --> 00:50:54.460 from the SASS marketing show last night and he was saying that he uses a 754 00:50:54.780 --> 00:51:00.940 script to edit out filler words within his episode. So all the UMS and 755 00:51:01.099 --> 00:51:05.929 Oz he goes, any loads, loads and into the script. It he's 756 00:51:05.969 --> 00:51:08.730 the transcript and then he can cut all of those filler words and then it 757 00:51:08.929 --> 00:51:13.570 edits the audio, which I think is just brilliant. So those four tools, 758 00:51:14.010 --> 00:51:19.559 shield, vied, casted and descript are tools that we're using to fuel 759 00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.280 our evangelist program which is our thought leadership program and then the time commitment. 760 00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:27.880 This is where I want to close out. If you're listening to this and 761 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.000 you are the leader of an organization, you have to be all in on 762 00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:35.789 this. It's going to be really hard for this to work unless the tippy 763 00:51:35.829 --> 00:51:38.269 top of the organization is fully bought in. Obviously, in our case, 764 00:51:38.309 --> 00:51:44.110 I'm all in on this. I'm convinced that this is going to take our 765 00:51:44.269 --> 00:51:49.179 brand and our business to a completely different level, and so I am willing, 766 00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:52.900 as the CEO of this business, that five of our highest paid people 767 00:51:52.900 --> 00:51:58.860 are going to be dedicating four to six hours a week to this. This 768 00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:04.170 does not mean that the expectation is that they go from forty hours a week 769 00:52:04.489 --> 00:52:08.809 to forty six hours a week. We have to figure out as an organization, 770 00:52:09.050 --> 00:52:13.489 how do we make them more efficient or how do we get certain things 771 00:52:13.530 --> 00:52:16.840 off of their playlate so that they can focus four to six hours a week 772 00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:21.320 on this, because that's how much I believe it's going to have an impact, 773 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.559 a positive impact, on our business, by the awareness that it is 774 00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:28.960 ultimately going to bring to our brand and the new business that we're going to 775 00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:34.070 win because of the exposure that we're going to create for ourselves on Linkedin and 776 00:52:35.269 --> 00:52:38.269 that comes at a cost and it comes at the cost of your employees time. 777 00:52:38.389 --> 00:52:42.789 So I see a lot of companies that they're like no, why would 778 00:52:42.789 --> 00:52:45.539 I want you focused on your personal brand? Do Your job. Then I 779 00:52:45.619 --> 00:52:49.619 see other companies that are like okay, like they're okay with it and you 780 00:52:49.780 --> 00:52:51.780 sure you can do that, but you got to do it on your own 781 00:52:51.820 --> 00:52:54.619 time. And then you've got folks that okay, we'll give you some time 782 00:52:54.739 --> 00:52:58.420 to do it. And then you've got folks like us that say we're going 783 00:52:58.460 --> 00:53:01.610 to give you time in your forty hours to do this and we're actually going 784 00:53:01.809 --> 00:53:07.130 to invest resources from our creative team to come alongside you and actually create this 785 00:53:07.289 --> 00:53:12.730 content for you. So instead of just relying on these people to write text 786 00:53:12.849 --> 00:53:19.400 only posts, our evangelists have access to incredible designers, incredible videographers. So 787 00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:22.679 they're they're getting videos done for them, they're getting slide decks done for them, 788 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:29.070 they're getting gifts and memes sourced for them, and that level of investment 789 00:53:29.590 --> 00:53:32.110 has to come, I think, from the top of the organization, maybe 790 00:53:32.150 --> 00:53:35.550 from the top of the marketing org if it's a big enough company, but 791 00:53:35.710 --> 00:53:37.230 in our in our case, you know, being a twenty person shop. 792 00:53:37.550 --> 00:53:43.219 If I weren't championing this from the top of the organization, it just wouldn't 793 00:53:43.219 --> 00:53:45.260 be able to work because it's going to be significant. There's going to be 794 00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:52.219 significant budget ramifications for this and productivity things right, like your your our golden 795 00:53:52.300 --> 00:53:55.889 goose sales guy, Logan, like you're a sales team of one and you 796 00:53:57.010 --> 00:54:00.570 close for deals last week alone. So for me to say, Hey, 797 00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:04.170 I need you to spend four to six hours a week on this means that 798 00:54:04.489 --> 00:54:07.130 could be lost productivity. So I'm looking at WHO's our second sales person going 799 00:54:07.170 --> 00:54:09.920 to be? Do Do we bring on another you know, do we need 800 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.519 to bring somebody on? Because which is going to cost US money? And 801 00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.880 these are these are big decisions that I don't want to discount them or diminish 802 00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:23.829 the investment that we're making on this bet that turning our people into evangelist is 803 00:54:23.909 --> 00:54:29.110 going to have massive positive impact on the business. I love that you just 804 00:54:29.230 --> 00:54:31.989 got. You got very real there and I think that's probably stuff that was 805 00:54:32.110 --> 00:54:36.869 floating around in the back of a lot of listeners or viewers minds right now. 806 00:54:37.349 --> 00:54:40.019 But let's just let's call it what it is right this time. That 807 00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:44.219 we're spending right now, you and I, to record this episode is time 808 00:54:44.260 --> 00:54:45.980 that I could be on sales call. Sure, I could be sending follow 809 00:54:45.980 --> 00:54:52.619 up emails and those sorts of things, but we firmly believe that the content 810 00:54:52.780 --> 00:54:57.210 that we put out is actually going to accelerate sales for us. So you've 811 00:54:57.250 --> 00:55:00.329 got to make those tough decisions and you can't kind of be wishy washy about 812 00:55:00.329 --> 00:55:04.530 it, like you kind of waste in some time on Linkedin. I saw 813 00:55:04.530 --> 00:55:07.920 a great post from Nikki. I be former member of this team where, 814 00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:12.320 you know, salespeople are accused of wasting time on Linkedin and my comment pack 815 00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.480 was I don't think I've ever wasted time on link did. Now could you 816 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:17.000 do that by like, Oh yeah, I'm list building or whatever, but 817 00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:22.269 if you're doing the right things then you're definitely not wasting that time. So 818 00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:27.590 think about the time commitment. Think about the ways that you can minimize that 819 00:55:27.909 --> 00:55:31.110 right the the efficiencies that can happen if you make it easy for your evangelist 820 00:55:31.150 --> 00:55:35.550 to be able to have that dumping ground, if you make it easy to 821 00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:38.619 record things that are already happening. You know, and we've always said this, 822 00:55:38.780 --> 00:55:42.699 right because if you. If you have a podcast, you can do 823 00:55:42.820 --> 00:55:45.019 this, but my thought is it doesn't always have to start with a podcast. 824 00:55:45.260 --> 00:55:49.500 That's kind of been, I think, one of our Achilles heel is 825 00:55:49.659 --> 00:55:52.650 we only looked at me to be growth as our pillar content. Now that 826 00:55:52.769 --> 00:55:55.969 we've started to expand our thinking around what is pillar content, that we can 827 00:55:57.090 --> 00:56:00.530 grab more micro content from a's like, holy cow, we just open Pandora's 828 00:56:00.570 --> 00:56:05.840 box. So it can be easier if you do some of these things and 829 00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:08.559 you build systems around them or you find the right partner, but the time 830 00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:13.960 investment is still there right, you know, for written content. Now video 831 00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:17.159 is super easy for you and I to approve. If our writers pick a 832 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:21.389 cut and write a headline like that, usually isn't going to take a heavy 833 00:56:21.469 --> 00:56:23.150 hand for me to say, AH, I don't want you to make me 834 00:56:23.269 --> 00:56:25.869 sound like that, because all they're doing is is something I said. If 835 00:56:25.869 --> 00:56:28.710 I don't like it, then I shouldn't have said it. Yeah, but 836 00:56:28.949 --> 00:56:31.710 for helping, you know, ghostwrite written content, there is a little bit 837 00:56:31.789 --> 00:56:36.099 more there now. It usually gets better with time if you're worst working with 838 00:56:36.219 --> 00:56:39.260 a ghostwriter or something like that, if you have that consistent feedback loop, 839 00:56:39.260 --> 00:56:44.460 which is one of the reasons we lessons we learned about two years ago is 840 00:56:44.539 --> 00:56:46.289 that if you, you know, use a different writer to write in the 841 00:56:46.369 --> 00:56:50.250 tone of Voice of one person, it's not going to work really well. 842 00:56:50.809 --> 00:56:52.369 But there are ways, again, that you can batch that. One of 843 00:56:52.449 --> 00:56:57.650 the things we're doing is dedicating our evangelist time to all right, everything goes 844 00:56:57.809 --> 00:57:00.170 here and we're not going to tag them every time a piece of content is 845 00:57:00.289 --> 00:57:04.079 ready for their review that they are going to need to look at. They 846 00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:07.840 might need to rewrite portions of it, but this is your review times so 847 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.119 that you'll have ten things loaded up and you can knock them out in thirty 848 00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:13.480 minutes, as opposed to five minutes here, five minutes here, and that 849 00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.469 sort of thing that just doesn't get done, and that's where a lot of 850 00:57:15.550 --> 00:57:20.909 stuff went to die of content that I could have been using before, but 851 00:57:20.989 --> 00:57:24.150 I didn't have a system for batch reviewing some of that content. I did 852 00:57:24.190 --> 00:57:29.230 an episode with one of our customers, Joe Sullivan, at Gorilla Seventy six, 853 00:57:29.309 --> 00:57:34.420 about how to approach batch creation and editing of content. Will Link to 854 00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:37.420 that in the show notes to something that just kind of came to mind here 855 00:57:37.059 --> 00:57:40.780 now, and and I am so grateful that you brought that up, Logan, 856 00:57:40.900 --> 00:57:45.849 because you know one of the we're recording this. What is the day? 857 00:57:45.969 --> 00:57:49.929 It's May a twenty two. June fifteen is when we're launching this. 858 00:57:50.090 --> 00:57:52.090 So the week of June fifteen is when you're going to start seeing five different 859 00:57:52.130 --> 00:57:57.969 people on our team posting consistently, starting with three days a week and eventually 860 00:57:58.010 --> 00:58:00.800 building up to three times a day. And so what what emily on our 861 00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:05.320 team is doing, the person coordinating all the social activity, she is going 862 00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:09.079 to the week before before that, she is going to have our our each 863 00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:14.469 of our editorial calendars mapped out for the following week. So we have time 864 00:58:14.630 --> 00:58:17.710 blocked that first week of June or second week of June to go in and 865 00:58:17.829 --> 00:58:22.150 review. Okay, this is the content that's going to be going live for 866 00:58:22.190 --> 00:58:25.070 me and least posting it for us, and we're going to obviously be jumping 867 00:58:25.110 --> 00:58:29.780 in and doing some engagement. She's going to be helping us with some engagement, 868 00:58:29.780 --> 00:58:32.059 some of the lower level stuff, because replying to comments matters so much, 869 00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:36.260 and so stuff that doesn't really require a thoughtful response, she can go 870 00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:39.579 in and and do some of that light replying, and so us going in 871 00:58:39.699 --> 00:58:45.610 and approving an entire week's worth of content and she's making sure that she staying 872 00:58:45.610 --> 00:58:47.809 at least two weeks ahead of it. So we're not scrambling, we're not 873 00:58:47.849 --> 00:58:51.289 in a rush, we can really take our time and go, okay, 874 00:58:51.329 --> 00:58:54.010 I'm going to block this two hours and I'm going to look over the three 875 00:58:54.050 --> 00:58:58.519 posts that are going to going to go live for me next week. And 876 00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:01.800 because a lot of these are going to be micro videos and when you look 877 00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:06.079 at a micro video, you look at a one minute clip, it's pretty 878 00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:07.760 easy for you to go, Oh, yeah, this is what I want 879 00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:12.030 to say on top of that. So thinking about content in terms of like 880 00:59:12.150 --> 00:59:15.550 there's it's really two pieces of content. Every time you post on linkedin there's 881 00:59:15.590 --> 00:59:20.150 the text and then there's the content that is, you know, the main 882 00:59:20.349 --> 00:59:22.670 piece of media. Sometimes it's just text. So I guess that would be 883 00:59:22.670 --> 00:59:27.260 the exception to just being one piece of content. But when it's a video, 884 00:59:27.380 --> 00:59:30.900 it's the micro video and then your text above that needs to add to 885 00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:36.059 or supplement that piece of content and I can't just regurgitate what you said in 886 00:59:36.099 --> 00:59:38.849 the video. That's why Chris Walkers videos do so well. But be thinking 887 00:59:38.889 --> 00:59:44.369 about that and know that when, when the pillar content has been turned into 888 00:59:44.449 --> 00:59:47.289 micro content, that then it makes it much easier. It used to take 889 00:59:47.289 --> 00:59:52.130 me about forty five minutes to write a linkedin status update, but after I've 890 00:59:52.170 --> 00:59:55.000 been reviewing some of these videos that have been coming through our pipeline, I'm 891 00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:58.679 looking at this going Oh, man, I could write this post in fifteen 892 00:59:58.719 --> 01:00:00.920 minutes, in ten minutes, because it's on, it's honed in on this 893 01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:06.159 specific idea and it takes what you said earlier in this episode and it brings 894 01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:08.750 it to Lifelogan, because you're not crippled by a blank page. You're not 895 01:00:08.869 --> 01:00:12.150 thinking, Oh, what do I have? What am I going to talk 896 01:00:12.150 --> 01:00:15.750 about today? Instead Emily saying no, this is what you're going to talk 897 01:00:15.750 --> 01:00:19.949 about next Monday. Go like here's the here's the caption that we wrote for 898 01:00:19.989 --> 01:00:22.059 you. Do you want to tweak it? And in the early days will 899 01:00:22.059 --> 01:00:24.780 probably be tweaking them a lot, but eventually the rider, we have a 900 01:00:24.860 --> 01:00:30.139 social media writer on the team and eventually she'll start to understand how each of 901 01:00:30.179 --> 01:00:32.099 us wants to talk and sound and we'll be doing less and less editing so 902 01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:35.849 that by the time we get to three posts a day. We're not having 903 01:00:35.849 --> 01:00:38.889 to spend fifteen hours a week on our social presence because we've got dedicated people 904 01:00:38.969 --> 01:00:43.969 on the team that know or our voices, know how we sound, and 905 01:00:44.090 --> 01:00:46.570 everything still coming through for our approval anyway. So I'm really glad you brought 906 01:00:46.570 --> 01:00:51.760 that up. Yeah, man, well, this has been a longer episode 907 01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:54.920 than we typically do, but on stir we've been doing this lately. So 908 01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:58.679 hopefully you've been liking it. If you don't, let it let us know. 909 01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:02.039 But we really want to go deep on some of these topics because we're 910 01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:06.989 in the trenches figuring this stuff out right now and we want you to be 911 01:01:07.030 --> 01:01:09.949 able to learn from the things that we're succeeding at in the things that we're 912 01:01:09.989 --> 01:01:14.190 failing at, the things that we're realized thing that we didn't think about that 913 01:01:14.590 --> 01:01:16.710 you can learn from if you really want to follow along. You know, 914 01:01:16.789 --> 01:01:20.659 James, and I say this all the time, follow us on Linkedin. 915 01:01:20.780 --> 01:01:22.260 I want to make sure you know the other folks that are involved in this. 916 01:01:22.500 --> 01:01:25.300 You can check out their content, see if it's working, give us 917 01:01:25.340 --> 01:01:30.380 feedback. Right so you can find me on Linkedin, Logan Lyles ylies. 918 01:01:30.820 --> 01:01:37.010 James. Last name Carbarry SAR be aary, Kelsey, Montgomery, KL Sie. 919 01:01:37.210 --> 01:01:40.489 Her last names pretty easy to spell. Dan Sanchez, our director of 920 01:01:40.530 --> 01:01:45.130 audience growth, and bill read. You might have to put bill read sweet 921 01:01:45.130 --> 01:01:47.480 fish because you've got a little bit more common name, but follow along with 922 01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:50.920 us. Shoot us a note, let us know where you think we can 923 01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:53.400 adjust our content or what's working well or what you know is falling flat. 924 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.159 We want to hear from you, guys, so let us know. They're 925 01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.519 for right now, man, let's close it out here, and I really 926 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:05.349 appreciate everybody listening and I'm looking forward to this next phase and adding even more 927 01:02:05.469 --> 01:02:12.750 fuel to the rocket ship. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners 928 01:02:12.789 --> 01:02:15.460 for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously 929 01:02:15.539 --> 01:02:19.980 helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided 930 01:02:20.019 --> 01:02:22.739 to do. If you leave a review for be to be growth in apple 931 01:02:22.820 --> 01:02:27.780 podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, 932 01:02:28.099 --> 01:02:30.409 I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, content based networking, 933 01:02:30.690 --> 01:02:34.730 how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a 934 01:02:34.809 --> 01:02:37.250 review, you get a free book. We both win