Broad Offerings Simplified with Chris Lynch

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:20.120 Chris Lynch, welcome in, to be to be growth. Where honored to 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.920 have you here on the show. Thanks for having me. Happy to be 4 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:28.199 here, absolutely so. You are the CMO at mine tickle. But I'm 5 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:32.399 going to hit you with like a massive rewind real quick and let's talk about 6 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:37.520 your path before being a chief marketing officer. You went journalism back in the 7 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:42.719 day and then to some product marketing and then into this chief marketing officer role. 8 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:45.920 So, Chris, tell us a little bit of that, that journey 9 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:50.159 and what led you to where you are now. It's hard to know where 10 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:54.079 to begin sometimes because I feel like if you had asked me when I was 11 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:58.759 twenty three if I'd be CMO of a company of any size, I would 12 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:04.319 have been like what, what's a CMO? But really what ended up happening 13 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:08.439 was I went to school for Journalism and then, at the time it was 14 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:11.400 still in vogue back then if you were in journalism that you wanted to get 15 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.359 into like, you know, politics or sports or some of the more like 16 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.760 sexy topics that we all kind of consume daily. But I was really interested 17 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.280 in technology. So I was like well, let's go see what's happening in 18 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.920 that world and I was working for a company called IDG, International Data Group. 19 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:34.159 They owned a variety of tech publications and I eventually moved to San Francisco 20 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.840 and at the time you had companies like twitter, facebook, Google. They 21 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:41.920 weren't they were big, but they weren't like the behemous they are now. 22 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:46.640 They were more sort of in their nascent stages, and so I started getting 23 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:52.840 into that world and just by observation started making a lot of different sources in 24 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.760 the community. Came very close to one of my first mentors again, named 25 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:01.480 Ross Mayfield, who basically convinced me to come in and do marketing at a 26 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:07.360 small startup, and it was again something that I was like wow, market, 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.960 I never even thought of doing that before. There were probably the practical 28 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.599 realities of I was a starving journalist living in San Francisco, which even back 29 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:20.039 then, the cost of living being what it was, there was maybe some 30 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:24.520 practical realities of getting into marketing, but I got in and you started to 31 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:31.560 realize that a lot of the skill sets from journalism are much more broadly applicable 32 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:37.000 and marketing than one might have thought. Hmm, give me one that you 33 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.439 think maybe people don't realize but has been a huge value ad for you. 34 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:46.599 Well, the one that I can kind of think of emerged really on day 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.120 one of my job. So I got into my first marketing job and the 36 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.000 great thing for me as I sat in the bullpen with sales, that was 37 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.400 my desk. They put me right in the fray, right and I'm listening 38 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:02.599 to them cold call all all day where they're just hitting up prospects, hitting 39 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.439 their pitch. I remember see next this Guy Scott Shnars, who has now 40 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.240 gone on to a really great successful software career. Selling career already had been 41 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.840 successful at that point, but listening to him hone his pitch, you could 42 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:20.280 hear him evolve it as he was kind of going through and so on one 43 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:23.319 hand I'm thinking, I'm looking at thinking like the art of the pitch and 44 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:28.159 like messaging, articulation and like that whole side, which is obviously super critical 45 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.639 to marketing. Then I would go spend another portion of my day talking with 46 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:38.159 engineers and product people and it was a world that, while I was not 47 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:43.719 a technologist, because I had covered technology, I got fairly adept at asking 48 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.039 what might have sounded like dumb questions, but I just didn't have that hang 49 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:52.919 up mentally and but figuring out that people didn't think they were dumb questions at 50 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:57.879 all and would be all too happy to impart a here's how an API works, 51 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.319 here's how you know this technology talks to this other technology, and I 52 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.039 would take notes just like I would as a journalist. So then as I 53 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:10.280 went to start writing my first marketing collateral, we're talking little one page PFS, 54 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.879 like very tactical stuff. I realize that I had a n act for 55 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.759 it. I had a NACT for talking to the technologists but putting that into 56 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:21.680 something that was very plain English for the go to Market Organization at the company 57 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:28.839 to understand but, most importantly, are customers to understand. And that was 58 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:32.120 really like what kind of barred me on the path from hey, marketing's kind 59 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:38.560 of interesting to getting into product marketing specifically. Wow, what? Honestly, 60 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:43.560 that leads us right into a big time problem I see in B tob because 61 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:46.959 companies can often have a ton of offerings right. They have this like array 62 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:53.639 of services. They've developed products that are useful in segments, but these broad 63 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.279 offerings, I mean we have to somehow clarify it, we have to somehow 64 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.839 have a voice, and you are able to do that rightight by distilling what 65 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:05.360 was maybe jargon and asking the question that other people would be maybe afraid to 66 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:09.040 ask or think, all it's dumb. If I ask, then you realize 67 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.680 like, oh no, if I can put this in plain English, I'm 68 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:15.439 I'm adding a ton of value, you're clarifying your voice. So you've experienced 69 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:20.279 that now in numerous different companies and roles. Tell me a little bit about 70 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:24.879 how you've seen that play out since then and maybe other other companies you've worked. 71 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:29.399 For sure, this is one of those other happenstance things, right. 72 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.079 I for never thought that I'd get into marketing, number one, and then 73 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:38.279 the kind of follow onto that was. I never even after that, probably 74 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:43.040 wouldn't have imagined that my specialty would come in portfolio marketing, which it kind 75 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.360 of has. So really where that kind of emerged. My first really big 76 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:55.199 management role was at Oracle and I ran product marketing for the marketing cloud business 77 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.639 n at there, and if you've worked a lot of your listeners you know 78 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:01.680 probably can kind of remember where those advent of the marketing cloud wars between adobe 79 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.720 oracle sales. Course they're scooping up, gobbling up all these companies. I 80 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:10.079 was doing that a oracle part of the business unit, bringing in things like 81 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:15.879 Eliqua responses, Blue Ki, a lot of great companies that have been doing 82 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:19.360 interesting things in the MARTECH space. While all that's coming in, you have 83 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:24.240 sales teams coming in, you have marketing teams coming in, you have product 84 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:30.600 teams coming in and they've spent their whole time up and to that point convincing 85 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.399 the market that their singular product is the best thing in the world. Can 86 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:39.439 do all these different things and they're bringing that to the table and suddenly my 87 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.480 job was to almost be first like the arbiter of saying, yeah, I 88 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.959 get that you can do those twenty things, but in the context of this 89 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.360 larger portfolio, I really only care about that one pick. We need to 90 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:57.199 one, maybe two things right, and because I'm basically going in and picking 91 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.680 out like the one or two things that I thought were the most substantive about 92 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:06.399 that product. So number one, I think no matter how big your portfolio 93 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:12.040 is as a marketer, you really have to kind of have a little constitution 94 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.920 and stand tall around saying I get that you know those other things are important, 95 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.480 but we really have to push hard into this one area because that has 96 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:28.519 the most value for our customers. Secondly, I'm a big believer in having 97 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.160 a really thoughtful approach to how you build out messaging frameworks. I think most 98 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:38.079 messaging frameworks it seems like such a boring exercise to a lot of marketers. 99 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.639 I think they kind of think of it as a really academic kind of ivory 100 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.879 tower exercise. So what you should do is not make it that. You 101 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:51.399 should actually make it hyper creative. And what I did at Oracle eventually did 102 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:57.079 this decision, which also was a buy acquisition where I was that was my 103 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.600 first CMO job and that was a highly acquisitive company. And then my tickle, 104 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:05.199 where we've built a lot of solutions out. I've basically created very plain 105 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:11.240 English frameworks right where you kind of say hey, out of all these different 106 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.920 technologies, they basically do three things. Right at Oracle it was like they 107 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:20.959 either unified data, they engage your audience or they help you analyze performance. 108 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.720 And suddenly we could kind of take all of these different puzzle pieces that we 109 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.639 had and you just threw them into those buckets. And it just cuts so 110 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:35.799 clarifying. Yeah, it just creates it. And first it quates clarity as 111 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:37.399 a marketer because you're like, oh, finally I can figure out how to 112 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.360 even just talk about this stuff. But then what ends up happening is that 113 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:48.279 stuff gets operationalized around like the entire organization, like suddenly they're looking at all 114 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:54.360 the sales consultants are building stuff off of that, the sales managers are thinking 115 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.320 about, well, this person index is really well here in these areas, 116 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:00.960 so I need to train them up more in this other bucket. HMM. 117 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.159 That I think is super critical is I'm a big believer in those framework should 118 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:09.559 be very direct and get at the core of what each of one of those 119 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:15.879 things do. HMM, as you look across this the Sass landscape right now, 120 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:20.519 give me some examples of companies that offer an array of services and options 121 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.120 and maybe you're watching them and your thinking they're just doing a great job, 122 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.279 like is there, is there someone that you are going for all that they're 123 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.639 the complexity that they're managing, they're doing a fantastic job at messaging and being 124 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:37.399 clear on the key simple ones. A few years ago I would have said 125 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:43.000 that sales force was in that category. I not to be critical of them 126 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:46.320 because I think they do some amazing things as a company and I think the 127 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.840 the bones of that company are still really strong in terms of all the other 128 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.720 things they do outside of the commercial side of their business. I want to 129 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.279 be very careful any time I talk anything that sounds negative about sales force, 130 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.399 but I think their portfolio has become very complex and they have a lot of 131 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.840 like Oracle and I sap like problems in terms of how they do messaging. 132 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.799 Now it's they still kind of have, you know, they've gone this sort 133 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:15.039 of route with like the cartoon and the all that stuff that kind of keeps 134 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:18.759 everything light, but if you actually get into the mechanics of their website and 135 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.240 some other things, I think it's become very complex. So a company that 136 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.559 I think is doing a good job. We're continues to do a good job, 137 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.799 although they'll be tested as they get into more known, as is adobe. 138 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:35.480 HMM. I think adobe. You know, they've gone into a lot 139 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.559 of stuff now because they have like the PDF and kind of docusign competitive business. 140 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.720 They had the kind of core creative cloud business, which is like in 141 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.279 their bread and butter forever, going back to when they were, you know, 142 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.960 warn the consumer realm primarily right as their only business. And then you 143 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.720 have everything that I've been doing with marketers. But even that one is a 144 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.440 little bit could be made complicated by the fact that they're kind of also into 145 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.360 e commerce, which had a lot of companies. Is a slightly different buyer 146 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:11.320 than the CMO. And so I go to their site and it's just so 147 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.600 darn clean. They yeah, they still do a very serious life across the 148 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.399 good of just like if you're in marketing and commerce, come this way, 149 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.519 if you're in creative, come this way, if you're interested in that PDF 150 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.519 stuff, come this way and HMM. And I think that that's a really 151 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.320 it'll be hard for them to maintain. That's why I said I think sales 152 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.200 force was still kind of there a while ago where it was sort of like 153 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.480 hey, where we've expanded into sales, called marketing, cloud service, COD 154 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:43.320 etc. But I you know, they've, like any company that when you 155 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.639 the more stuff you bring in, the more complexity you bring and it makes 156 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.120 doing these a lot harder. So I sympathize in any context. Yeah, 157 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:56.600 there's there's just so many tensions as something scales and grows and the size complexities 158 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:00.799 are there and sales forces a great example of that, where they're doing some 159 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.440 things just extremely well, but they're also having to manage some tensions because of 160 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.000 the size of the getting to what are some of those other common tensions? 161 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:11.759 You see threads that companies that scale and then it's like, oh my gosh, 162 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.000 we have so many offerings. Now they're starting to do it poorly. 163 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.960 We don't have to give a specific example, but tell me some of those 164 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:24.240 common tensions. So I think the common tensions with multiple offerings is for all, 165 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.080 we go to so many marketing conferences. We go to and we read 166 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:35.039 all the literature. We talked about customer Centricity as a community in marketing. 167 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:46.720 Yet the reality is is the way that we in scent compensate and manage objectives 168 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.360 for a lot of go to market teams in the sales, marketing and business 169 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.000 development functions is not always completely aligned with doing the right thing for the customer. 170 00:12:54.639 --> 00:13:01.039 So what I mean by that is like, if you're as these portfolios 171 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:07.080 grow, what ends up happening is, okay, we just acquired this thing 172 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:11.639 and now we want our sellers to go start attaching it to all of their 173 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:15.919 deals and then you'll have like an overlay team that comes in and they are 174 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.960 just it's not even that veiled that they are going to be comped relative to 175 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:26.279 how much this product is attached to deals. So then suddenly you're in this 176 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:31.720 position where you're positioning products industry cur and sales motions that may or may not 177 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:37.080 make sense for that customer to consume. I will give you one example. 178 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:39.519 I don't think it's any secret right like. So, as an example, 179 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:46.279 when we bought responses at Oracle, great product, fantastic product. It really, 180 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.960 in my mind, was like the gold standard for consumer, retail and 181 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.799 travel industry. Email marketing just really effective at doing that. We also brought 182 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.480 but Blue Ki, which was really more around at that sort of stage in 183 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:05.960 the AD tech world. How do you manage all this audience data for activation 184 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.720 across all these different paid media channels? Now, at the go to market 185 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:13.480 level, you have all of us big brains in the go to market org 186 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.480 saying, AH, well, it's retail and CPG. There's like this great 187 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.679 overlap between these two companies, but the reality is you go and talk to 188 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:28.679 like the crm marketing or email marketing person their world was like very far removed 189 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.480 from the person who's managing audience data and paid media. Now the natural conclusion, 190 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:35.639 you know, is to say, oh, will go to there, 191 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.480 but both their bosses eventually the same boss. Right. Sometimes that was true, 192 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.720 by the way, sometimes it wasn't. And what I'm getting at is, 193 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.360 like we would start building messaging on like how those two things should work 194 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:52.080 together and like an observation I had pretty quickly was like yeah, like, 195 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.559 technically speaking, the way these two products could communicate with one another and deliver 196 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.279 more value for the customer. Yes, like hypothetically that works. The question 197 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:05.480 is is, like does that person really need that right now? And I 198 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:11.320 think that we sort of realized that there were some challenges when we go and 199 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.320 have those conversations, and I think our customers did a great job of keeping 200 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:18.159 US honest and making sure we went back to the drawing board and came back 201 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:22.440 with something that was meaningful. But that's just an example of where things can 202 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:28.720 get a little murky in those areas. As you're saying that I'm we're coming 203 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.440 off the NBA trade deadline. I don't know if you're a basketball fan, 204 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.639 but I totally see a basketball like a reference in my head, because at 205 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:41.039 the trade deadline all these things are going through and you don't know if those, 206 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.200 in this case, those products, will actually work together. In that 207 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:50.279 case, players will work well together. You see it hypothetically exactly like you 208 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.600 said, but in reality, once they get on the court, it's completely 209 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:58.480 different. Right, like the execution of that and having the right people around 210 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.759 the table to analyze how these things can actually work together is is a huge 211 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:07.360 piece of the puzzle and and if it's going to actually be valuable long term. 212 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:11.159 So I see that tension. Okay, so revenue is going to be 213 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.720 a key factor and how you position and what you position when you have a 214 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.559 lot that you could offer. Right, but outside of revenue, what are 215 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.360 your thoughts on like, what are you taking into consideration when you're trying to 216 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:32.759 position this broad array of potential products? So one of the things that is 217 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:41.159 similar about a good marketing strategy for portfolios that is similar to products themselves, 218 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.200 is to take what I call an integrated but modular strategy to your messaging. 219 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:52.840 In other words, I have a vision that I want to build and often 220 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.320 when I'll do is I'll start by writing out that entire vision and I won't 221 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:00.440 actually even burden myself with a ton of product realities. I'll keep I'll be 222 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.119 pragmatic a little bit. I'll keep some of that in the back of my 223 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.440 mind, but in general, kind of right out the whole vision and say 224 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:12.279 to myself, okay, if that's the vision of like what Nirvana looks like 225 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:17.759 for all those things to work together, then let me break down or back 226 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:22.480 into that what each component could do to kind of fill out that vision and 227 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.279 make it a reality. Well, we could put this thing under this part 228 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:29.200 and we could put this thing under that part, like and, and sort 229 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:33.799 of map that out and do so in a way where, again, you 230 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:37.160 can move things around, but you look at it and say, okay, 231 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:42.599 in the totality, all these things hooked together to build that larger vision. 232 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:47.759 But then you're not done. The next thing you have to do is go 233 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:53.400 and break a part off and say, if I broke this part off and 234 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:59.400 handed it to somebody, could this also work as its own standalone thing? 235 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:07.119 And that's how you sort of mitigate some of the revenue considerations of well, 236 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:12.839 we want to drive discreete panls towards certain products, but we also want to 237 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:18.440 sell the vision of what it would mean to buy everything together, and so 238 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.839 typically what I mean by integrated but modulars that this the message should work as 239 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.920 an integrated story, but you should also be able to easily pull it out 240 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:32.920 into modular parts that can kind of work on their own and create their own 241 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.359 value. That is a harder piece. As you what you can find is 242 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.200 you can build a vision and then you find out when you start breaking the 243 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.799 pieces out it falls apart quickly. So that means you didn't get it right 244 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.319 exactly and so you kind of have to go back to the drawing port at 245 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.119 that point. Hey everyone, if you've been listening to be to be growth 246 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.279 for a while, you know that we are big proponents of putting out original, 247 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:00.960 organic content on Linkedin, but one thing that's always been a struggle for 248 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.640 a team like ours is easily tracking the reach of that linkedin content. That's 249 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.000 why we're really excited about shield analytics. Since our team started using shield, 250 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.440 we've been able to easily track the reach and performance of our linkedin content without 251 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:21.960 having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and it generates dashboards 252 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:27.559 that are incredibly useful to determining things like what content has been performing the best, 253 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.359 what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average 254 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:37.200 views per post. Shield has been a game changer for our entire team's productivity 255 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:42.160 and performance on Linkedin. I highly suggest checking out this tool if you're publishing 256 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:48.240 content on Linkedin for yourselves or for your company. You can get a ten 257 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.200 day free trial at shield APP DOT AI, or you can get a twenty 258 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.319 five percent discount with our Promo code be tob growth. Again, that's shield 259 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:03.960 APP DOT AI and the Promo Code is be, the number to be growth. 260 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.240 All One word for a twenty five percent discount. All right, let's 261 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.720 get back into the show. That is a harder piece. Has You what 262 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.480 you can find is you can build a vision and then you find out when 263 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.799 you start breaking the pieces out it falls apart quickly. So that means you 264 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.400 didn't get it right exactly, and so you kind of have to go back 265 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.640 to the drawing port at that point. On this integrated yet modular system, 266 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:32.279 give me, and I it may be an example. Have you had a 267 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.480 time where you you thought you had it right and then it was like, 268 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.240 Oh, back to the drawing board? I think that I can't think of. 269 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:42.920 I'll say this. I can't think of a place I've worked where I 270 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.279 haven't evolved it based on where it started totally. So, yeah, I 271 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.200 think that as an example. When I was at Scigeon, so decision was 272 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:57.079 a really interesting company to work for and they they're still doing some interesting things 273 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:00.599 in market. What we were trying to do there was take some of the 274 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.559 same like digital marketing practices that are happening everywhere and paid and owned and start 275 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:11.640 applying them to the world of earned media. So we were looking at things 276 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.079 like a lot of companies use, like subscribe to a database where they can 277 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.920 basically understand who are all the journalists in the world. Oh, here's Benji, 278 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:23.480 he does the Bob Growth podcast from Austin. You know, all these 279 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:29.960 different kind of dimensions that a PR team might use. Then we would bought 280 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:34.079 press releases through PR newswire. We bought that service which, like a ton 281 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.640 of companies, thousands of companies, use across the globe to distribute their press 282 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:44.240 releases and their news. MM. We bought a company called Falcon ioh which 283 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:48.799 is Social Media Fu listening. Yeah, and so you can see how all 284 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.440 those things are related. You can also see how they're a bit discrete. 285 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.440 One of the learnings I had there was, well, we have like a 286 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:07.759 pretty good framework in place around understanding influencer data for for communications. That was 287 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.680 like one kind of level. Another was how you engage people out in market. 288 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.279 That was suitings like social engagement, the press releases, and then again, 289 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.160 analyzing how you did. I did have to sort of revisit some of 290 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:25.200 it because there's certain products that you can buy where you find just an incongruence 291 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.799 in terms of how it's consumed. So in that case, like press release 292 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.400 of is, even though we were moving towards selling them more and like a 293 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.359 subscription model, it wasn't like normal software in a capacity, in that capacity 294 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:44.079 right. So we had to kind of rethink how we talked about the tie 295 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:47.880 out of all those things together, and that's so that's an example where we 296 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:51.240 kind of had to we came up with one story, we tested it in 297 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:55.559 market and then we kind of evolved it a bit to make sure that we're 298 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.640 giving enough discreet storytelling to that one area. Evolution is such a key part 299 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.640 of this process and that's why what's so nice about it is it's all testing 300 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:08.319 right, like we can figure out how the puzzle fits together, but you've 301 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:11.000 got to like you might have to go back to messaging. You might have 302 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.480 to there's several levers in a sense that you might end up pulling to get 303 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:22.720 that right congruency. So you're you're pretty relatively new to mind tickle. You 304 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.400 had a project recently of a website redesign that you've had to navigate kind of 305 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.640 all these offerings and with all we've just talked about. I was wondering if 306 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:36.279 we sort of brought it into that project, what you've found to be most 307 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:41.279 important to you as you're actively working and thinking about these things right now. 308 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.319 I think for me, well, number one, with be tob sites. 309 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:51.720 I feel like people often over complicated and you see sort of two really error 310 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:56.519 prone approaches to be to besides. One is to the kind of shove product 311 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.880 down everyone's throat kind of approach, which is, you know, just it's 312 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:04.240 the big old catalog of everything you do. Let me kind of consume it. 313 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:10.920 More like the corporate marketing or brand approach is to just put all this 314 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:15.440 platitude value messaging everywhere that like not only could you swap out for any of 315 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.480 your competitor sites. You could like probably swap out for like ninety percent of 316 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:26.160 the world a robot road it. It's everywhere. Yeah, like it's just 317 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.720 like that's like the other one where it's just like man, that value statement 318 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:36.319 is so broad that like it's hard for me to understand right. So, 319 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.440 number one, I think you got to figure out your equilibrium around that, 320 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:47.319 but for me what was most important was coming back to that integrated but modular 321 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:51.480 approach, meaning on the home page in a couple other areas, I want 322 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.839 to have the ability to tell that the totality of this big story, which 323 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:59.920 is what is sales readiness. That's like sort of what we kind of talk 324 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.480 about as our main kind of thought leadership concept, and then let the rest 325 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:11.640 of the site kind of talk more about the subcomponents of everything that kind of 326 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:17.880 ladders up to sales readiness, and so that I think we were able to 327 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:22.160 accomplish with the site and something really proud of. It's always gratifying to when 328 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:27.000 you start seeing the traffic increase and all those other good things start to follow. 329 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:32.039 How do you showcase the offerings without being really convoluted in your messaging, 330 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.759 because I know that that's a pain point always and the I mean what you 331 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.880 said about value statements very true, but it's wonder if for you, how 332 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:44.920 do you showcase those offerings not being real convoluted in your messaging? Visuals are 333 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.880 very important. So, and I think I've gotten religion about this, maybe 334 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.200 later in my career than I would have liked, maybe because I'm a writer, 335 00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:55.519 so I always kind of have felt like the written word should speak for 336 00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:02.079 itself and I've had to be more selfaware or self effacing that that's not how 337 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:06.200 a lot of people like to consume things. So I feel like, like 338 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.799 it's in the software industry, which I work in right like I feel like 339 00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:14.000 screenshots are often just such a throwaway thing. People don't even think a lot 340 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.640 about a screen shot that they put on a site, whereas now, I've 341 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.480 learned, you got to think very deliberately about every single thing on that screen 342 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.319 shot. Does it actually communicate a story on its own, even if you 343 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:30.400 weren't reading all of the text over to the side? So that's number one. 344 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.200 Is just getting the visual component's right. Videos and other example of that. 345 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.880 The other thing I would say is that I think would like some of 346 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:44.680 the larger messages like the headlines and things like that just are on the side 347 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:48.240 of playing English. Like I know we have to write for the robots and 348 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.359 Seo and organic a lot, but for me what a bigger miss is often 349 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.759 when you drive traffic to a site in yeah, people scroll down that page 350 00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:02.759 and the kind of I don't I don't really understand and it's very and that 351 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.559 happens. I mean I go to a ton of sites like that as someone 352 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:08.839 who also has to buy other things in the industry, and I'm just sort 353 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.319 of like, I'm not quite sure if this is right for me. I 354 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.640 never want people feeling that way. So I always sort of air on the 355 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:22.480 side of strong, clear headlines and action oriented. You know, just really 356 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.920 pick good verbs, good let's act. As we start to wrap up here, 357 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:32.480 like I'm a new hire to your marketing team, Chris, and you're 358 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:37.200 you're teaching me how to keep clarity in my messaging. You're trying to reinforce 359 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.759 that. Where would you start? What's the what's most important for me, 360 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:47.880 as the new hires, to understand? So I always think that we over 361 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.519 complicate the role of marketing and what it's supposed to do because there's so many 362 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:57.240 different places we invest, so many different things we do. I generally like 363 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:03.480 to say your job is threefold. First, help us make it super clear 364 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.400 to people what we do, to make it super clear why it's valuable to 365 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:14.839 them. And three, as much as possible, tell our customers or prospects 366 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:21.880 something interesting. I think, I personally believe that we've sort of moved from 367 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.319 the world of like if you if you lump marketing all into the world of 368 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.759 sales generally. That I know that would make some marketers that you know, 369 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.720 they like to create this separation. But if you just look at it all 370 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:38.319 in the world of sales, right, sales went through this sort of progression 371 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.920 right. First it was like the relationship sale. That was sort of the 372 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:47.519 time of like the three Martini, lunch, golf, all that stuff. 373 00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:52.200 Sounds Nice, yeah, yeah, then sounds so bad and then, you 374 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.440 know, you get into the early two thousands, right, and you'll you'll 375 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.640 meet some of these folks in a lot of organizations. Well, I'm all 376 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:04.319 about value from the value seller, and that's fine. I think that's an 377 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:08.759 improvement of saying I'm going to add more value to the customer than, you 378 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.839 know, just buying the lunch. But I actually want to show how my 379 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:17.720 products, my solution, can do all these wonderful things for them. But 380 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:21.799 I don't even think selling value is enough anymore, because I think so many 381 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:29.440 industries product functionality commoditizes really quickly and I actually think, I think prospects actually 382 00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.200 care. Can you tell me something interesting that I don't already know or that 383 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.640 I thought on you about? But you're getting me to at least change or 384 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.240 flip my thinking in a way, and I think that's what I want on 385 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:48.079 my marketers to like. I want a piece of content to be interesting, 386 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:52.279 not just because it fills, you know, some Seo vacuum or it's just 387 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:57.119 sort of a box check relative to some campaign plan we had. Like tell 388 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:03.240 prospects or customers something in interesting and we will earn more conversations with them. 389 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.799 If you just make it throw away, don't be surprised when you see all 390 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.880 that stuff just start tapering out of your funnel. Good point that I we 391 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.079 talked a lot here at sweet fish about commodity content and it feels like it's 392 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:22.759 sort of evolving with the Internet right like at because we did what was rewarded 393 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.200 for so long as marketers. We wrote the Seo piece because it would get 394 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.039 us ranked first in Google. After a while everyone's trying the same thing, 395 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:32.880 so we all start to sound the same. You, you lose your point 396 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.799 of view in some ways. So when you come back to this where it's 397 00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:40.960 you're going to help bring clarity, you're going to be valuable and you're going 398 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:47.599 to be interesting. Those, those are very tangible things that hit to use 399 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:52.559 the word value again, but you're adding immense value to the potential customer and 400 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.359 it's done in such an interesting way. Yeah, I know, and I 401 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.200 believe in value. I guess what I'm saying is is like I think value 402 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:04.400 is derived from learning something new. It is I don't know, it's simply 403 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:11.200 derived from, well, I can get this done for you. Yep, 404 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.119 because a lot of things, a lot of the stuff we're selling in the 405 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:18.960 Bob Sasspace, like someone else can can sell you something that will basically get 406 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.920 it done. That's a great way to think about it. As we're as 407 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.440 we're starting to wrap up, help provide clarity, valuable and tell him something 408 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.519 interesting. Chris, anything you want to add here before we close it out? 409 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.599 I think that, just going back to the topic which I really enjoyed 410 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:42.279 around larger portfolos and and and product marketing. I my advice to the listeners 411 00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:49.759 is really hone in on the most important thing, stay true to that and 412 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:53.319 try to kind of tune out a lot of the noise as you're building your 413 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:57.720 strategies and building your plans. I think it's if you're eager to please, 414 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:04.400 it's kind of easy to start spreading yourself really thin by saying, oh, 415 00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.200 will also pursue this, and will also pursue this and will also pursue this. 416 00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:12.559 It's not that you shouldn't revisit or relook at things that you've built. 417 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.880 That's just good practice and good marketing. But I do think you have to 418 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:22.759 give things the opportunity to work and to resonate and to go and market and 419 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.200 I think a lot of times now, maybe because of the availability of message 420 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:31.319 testing and all these other tools available to us, we sometimes pivot or course 421 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:36.720 correct maybe faster than we need to sometimes. So that would just be my 422 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:39.279 kind of final word on that one. Can you tell us a little bit 423 00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:44.680 about mine tickle, and then also where people should connect with you and stay 424 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:49.480 up to your work and what you're doing? Sure, so my tickle we're 425 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:54.680 sales readiness platform. So we're really focused on providing a central place where sellers 426 00:32:54.759 --> 00:33:00.799 can build and develop knowledge or sales management can define excellent months for what a 427 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.960 great seller looks like and then, finally, a place where we can also 428 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.359 analyze their performance in the real world. So, in addition to kind of 429 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:13.400 core sales training and enablement capabilities, sales content, making that all available, 430 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:17.839 we've also added conversation intelligence capabilities that allow you to kind of look at, 431 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.119 okay, how did the seller bring a lot of this forward in a meeting, 432 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.480 looking at themes, trends, topics, etc. Because if you do 433 00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:30.359 that then you can be much more informed about the enablement programs that you build 434 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:36.480 for them. I came to mind tickle because I kind of believe that marketing 435 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:40.480 spends all this time, money and effort on content and they really under invest 436 00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:46.599 in what it means to drive that from a behavioral standpoint with their sales organizations. 437 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.279 And it's not just having a nice portal where the contents made available to 438 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:54.440 pull down. Think a lot of marketers look at that and they go enabled 439 00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:00.519 and they kind of send it off to the salesperson, and I learned the 440 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.200 hard way that that is not how you enable sales people and that's not how 441 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.800 you build credibility with sales people. So my ticklecom you can check out everything 442 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.400 that we're doing. We're really in the blog and resource section. I'd encourage 443 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:17.159 you to go because it's not just we're not just slinging product on our site. 444 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:22.480 We have a lot of great topics across all the things that I think 445 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.880 revenue leaders are thinking about today relative to their sellers, because the last thing 446 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:31.480 I'd leave you with is most be to be sales orgs. You know, 447 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.559 twenty percent of the sellers are doing eighty percent of the revenue and I very 448 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:45.000 much think that every sales and marketing leader should find that offensive and I think 449 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.800 that there is such a better way to drive more productivity out of the sales 450 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:55.119 organization and there's a great partnership between sales and marketing and Crocmo relationship that can 451 00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:59.880 happen. They're well. Thanks for sharing that. We're excited for people to 452 00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:01.519 check out my nentackle. Chris, where can people reach out to you? 453 00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.920 As linkedin best or what do you prefer there right now? Right now, 454 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.639 Linkedin is best. I feel like I used to have like a functional website 455 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.960 in blog. But who has the time for that nowadays with all the other 456 00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:19.199 media and with your lives? So yeah, linkedin's great, fantastic. Well, 457 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:23.000 thanks again for joining us here on B Tob Growth were we're always having 458 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:29.599 conversations like this one. Super insightful and want to help you continue to grow 459 00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:34.559 and innovate in your B Tob Sass company. So never miss an episode. 460 00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.119 You can subscribe to the show on your favorite subscription service. Wherever you're listening 461 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.480 to this, connect with me on Linkedin as well. Just Search Benjie Block 462 00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:45.320 over there and keep doing work that matters. Will be back with another episode 463 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.079 real soon. Chris, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. 464 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.920 We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. 465 00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.880 If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need 466 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.840 to have on the show, reach out email me, ben dot block at 467 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:15.320 Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to hearing from you.