#Books 8: Why Marketing is Rarely About Your Product w/ Douglas Burdett & James Muir

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.719 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:10.189 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:10.269 --> 00:00:15.390 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:15.390 --> 00:00:23.820 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:24.260 --> 00:00:28.660 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:28.660 --> 00:00:32.539 before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:32.579 --> 00:00:36.890 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:41.450 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:46.329 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with Packics, they're 10 00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:50.880 building the fastest growing BBB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:54.479 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.719 and I'm also one of the CO hosts of this show. When we're 13 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.600 not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of 14 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.269 our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we 15 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:10.709 attempt to take over the world. Just getting well. Maybe let's get into 16 00:01:10.709 --> 00:01:19.739 the show. Hello and welcome to the B Tob Growth Show monthly book talk. 17 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:23.260 I'm Douglasporett, host to the marketing book podcast. Reach Week I publish 18 00:01:23.299 --> 00:01:26.700 an interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help my 19 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.659 listeners succeed in the quickly changing world of marketing and sales. And joining me 20 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:34.849 is my friend James Mure, author of the perfect close, the secret to 21 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:40.689 closing sales, the best selling practices and techniques for closing the deal. I 22 00:01:41.329 --> 00:01:45.969 read every book featured on the Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads even more 23 00:01:46.010 --> 00:01:49.920 books than I do and he listens to every episode of the Marketing Book Podcast. 24 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:55.120 So I'm delighted that he can join me and in this monthly episode of 25 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:59.280 the B Tob Growth Show we briefly recap some of the key ideas from the 26 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.950 marketing and sales books that were recently featured on the marketing book podcast. James, 27 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:07.870 welcome to the bet be growth show book talk. Thank you, Douglas. 28 00:02:07.909 --> 00:02:09.590 That's great to be back. In this episode we're going to talk about 29 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:14.469 four of the recent books featured on the marketing book podcast, which our first 30 00:02:14.550 --> 00:02:19.780 loser think how untrained brains are ruining America, by Scott Adams. Second we 31 00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:23.740 have the self reliant entrepreneur, three hundred and sixty six daily meditations to feed 32 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:29.060 your soul and grow your business by John Jans. Third we have beyond products 33 00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:32.250 by Jill Soley and Todd Wilms and finally, the ten stories that great leaders 34 00:02:32.289 --> 00:02:36.689 tell by Paul Smith. So onto the books. First up we've got loser 35 00:02:36.810 --> 00:02:40.409 think how untrained brains are ruining America by Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams, and this 36 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:45.840 is an interesting book on critical thinking with some poignant and often hilarious examples in 37 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:47.800 it. So tell us a little bit about Scott Adams. Is Your thing? 38 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:52.520 Well, as you may have heard, Scott Adams has gone from cartoonist 39 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.120 and he's had other business as well, but he's become a bit controversial because 40 00:02:55.120 --> 00:03:00.990 he's become much more of a political pundit. And I hadn't read it, 41 00:03:01.069 --> 00:03:05.069 but there was another book he wrote a year or two ago called when Bigley 42 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:08.229 I think it was. It was on the persuasive techniques that Donald Trump uses, 43 00:03:08.870 --> 00:03:15.740 and this one he talks about political things but I didn't get the sense 44 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:19.580 that he was taking any sides, but he would talk about political issues as 45 00:03:19.620 --> 00:03:23.699 it relates to a point he was making. So this book is about all 46 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:29.090 the different ways that people think, in other words the different mental models and 47 00:03:29.449 --> 00:03:31.849 like how an engineer is trying to think, how a lawyers trying to think, 48 00:03:32.090 --> 00:03:35.610 how his story and is trying to think on and on and on, 49 00:03:36.250 --> 00:03:42.800 and he explains that a lot of people are in what he calls mental prisons, 50 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.599 meaning they're being sort of trapped and they don't realize that they're trapped in 51 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:53.319 this mode of thinking. And it was maybe a little bit of a departure 52 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.069 for a lot of the marketing and sales books that are on the show, 53 00:03:55.629 --> 00:04:00.710 but really interesting and it's got what I calling it's kind of very long aftertaste, 54 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.349 mean at a good aftertaste. I keep thinking about it almost every day. 55 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:10.219 And so he explains, like I said, why people think the way 56 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:15.620 they do and I guess after reading that book I am perhaps a little more 57 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:20.379 empathetic for why people think the way they do and less judgmental. And other 58 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:25.970 words, the late father in law I had who was really keen on communism. 59 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:30.370 It got a little tiresome. It thanksgiving dinner and now I kind of 60 00:04:30.490 --> 00:04:34.649 understood why he thought the way he did. And in fact, in the 61 00:04:34.730 --> 00:04:38.410 interview with Scott Adams I even said, you know, this is a great 62 00:04:38.449 --> 00:04:41.519 book to get just before Thanksgiving, you know here in the US, when 63 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:46.079 a lot of families come together, because it helps you better understand why people 64 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:48.319 think the way they do. And then he even includes, you know, 65 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:51.990 ways to help them break out of their mental presence. But I don't want 66 00:04:51.990 --> 00:04:57.350 to get into argue with people, but it was very interesting and I'll tell 67 00:04:57.350 --> 00:05:02.189 you something else from that book. I don't like television news and now I 68 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:08.420 really don't like television news. In fact, you know interesting, very trivial 69 00:05:08.500 --> 00:05:11.699 story. When I go to my gym there's a bank of televisions. There's 70 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:13.980 not always a lot of people there, so people can go up and change 71 00:05:14.019 --> 00:05:16.540 the channel. I mean you ask other people if it's okay and I will 72 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:20.649 go up and change the channel on the televisions that are near where I am 73 00:05:21.329 --> 00:05:26.170 and I don't really care what channels it is, as long as it's not 74 00:05:26.329 --> 00:05:30.329 these people on news channels like you know, whether whatever the right wing, 75 00:05:30.370 --> 00:05:33.610 left wing, middle of the road. I'll put on like the weather channel 76 00:05:33.649 --> 00:05:39.680 or the the h the home and garden channel, or maybe even the sports 77 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.519 channels, just because he explains in his book, or reminds a lot of 78 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:50.750 us, that new WHO's has gone from information to brain manipulation, he says, 79 00:05:51.269 --> 00:05:55.550 and what he means by that is that in the past there are fewer 80 00:05:55.670 --> 00:06:00.870 news outlets and they were basically providing information, whereas now their business model works 81 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:05.139 much better for them if they can get people outraged and get them angry and 82 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:11.180 keep them watching through the TV commercials. And it's a similar I think it's 83 00:06:11.180 --> 00:06:15.019 a similar brain chemical as when you're at a casino and you just can't stop 84 00:06:15.139 --> 00:06:17.850 gambling, and that's why the casinos don't have any windows or clocks on the 85 00:06:17.889 --> 00:06:20.970 wall, because they don't want it to sinse that it's it's passing. And 86 00:06:21.250 --> 00:06:24.410 he says, you know, you can't blame the news media, because that 87 00:06:24.529 --> 00:06:28.089 really works well for them because it keeps people engaged and you may have heard 88 00:06:28.089 --> 00:06:31.920 of people who will watch these news channels for hours and hours. He called 89 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:35.959 it political warming. Right, is that now that the world society can keep 90 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.199 track of? We know that this headline leads better than this headliner. We 91 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:44.480 know that this gets more clicks than that. They're doing all the things that 92 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.910 they know to manipulate our behaviors to get people, like you said, outrage, 93 00:06:47.949 --> 00:06:51.870 because that's what cells advertising. Yeah, so people watching it. It 94 00:06:51.990 --> 00:06:56.550 works for them. So I'm just I guess it was even more since because 95 00:06:56.550 --> 00:07:00.470 there's another book on the show while back, the invisible brand, which we 96 00:07:00.550 --> 00:07:04.139 talked about in an earlier episode, where you talking about how machine learning and 97 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:10.660 AI is making us all fall into more and more bubble co chambers. Yeah, 98 00:07:10.699 --> 00:07:14.300 who chambers? Because it's all that they're trying to please you. They 99 00:07:14.379 --> 00:07:17.170 want you to get what they think you want, and so you know, 100 00:07:17.290 --> 00:07:21.649 we're all have a different feed on our social media based on what it thinks 101 00:07:21.689 --> 00:07:27.250 we want. So anyway, that was it was very interesting and I think 102 00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:32.639 my cynical or suspicious marketing mind was sharpened up even more. But so it 103 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:35.319 wasn't so much about marketing and sales. But I tell you what, it 104 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:41.040 was helpful for when you're talking about ideas or you're helping clients or colleagues work 105 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:44.509 through certain kinds of problems. Every example he gave in the book, I 106 00:07:44.589 --> 00:07:48.949 was able to see why people behave the way they certain that they do based 107 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:53.990 on how they think, and not just that. He's giving you the right 108 00:07:54.029 --> 00:07:56.829 way to do it as well in each of these chapters. So I really 109 00:07:57.269 --> 00:08:00.379 honestly I can't think of a person that wouldn't benefit from this book, just 110 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:03.660 because it's really about critical thinking. And so whenever you hear anything, whether 111 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:07.139 it's a marketing idea or something you're seeing on TV, you can see, 112 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:09.540 oh, there, there, they're comparing it to nothing. Right, there's 113 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.970 the yeah, how is so and so doing? And they're compared to what? 114 00:08:13.490 --> 00:08:18.769 Yeah, and so you start to understand what is a good argument of 115 00:08:18.889 --> 00:08:22.250 that type and when some when someone's intentionally using it for another purpose, you 116 00:08:22.329 --> 00:08:26.170 can see that. You just sort of make lifts up the veil and you 117 00:08:26.209 --> 00:08:28.680 can see what's actually going on. Yeah, I think in terms out that 118 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.440 one, just to remind the I mean there's a lot to dissect here actually. 119 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.879 So I thought it was a wonderful book. His takeaway was, you 120 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.799 know, take that peeking concept of taking the smallest step possible. That was 121 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.669 the the main thing he hoped that users or that readers would get from the 122 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:46.389 book, is might the concept of microsteps. Yes, that was very helpful. 123 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:48.789 And I've been thinking about that lately when I have to get up. 124 00:08:50.070 --> 00:08:52.710 He talks about how in one of the one of the things, one of 125 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.340 the chapters, he was talking about how, when you want to accomplish something, 126 00:08:56.460 --> 00:09:00.980 the problem that most people have is that they think about everything that has 127 00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:05.139 to be done, and he said that instead you should think about just moving 128 00:09:05.179 --> 00:09:09.179 your pinky first, or whatever the smallest step is to get you started. 129 00:09:09.220 --> 00:09:11.289 And he talked about how years ago, when he decided he wanted to become 130 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:16.570 a cartoonist, instead of thinking about all that was involved and producing all the 131 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.169 content and getting it into the newspapers and all that, all he did was 132 00:09:20.289 --> 00:09:26.320 go to the store and buy his artist materials and then a couple days later 133 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:31.480 he took him out of the bag. So he was just slowly getting getting 134 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:33.799 started on that. Yeah, that was a was a great concept and of 135 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:39.429 course he explains why, why that works. There's a fair amount of explanation 136 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:43.549 of how the brain works in his book. Agreed. So this book is 137 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:48.110 from a cartoonist but it is surprisingly practical of often humoroust Tristan on critical thinking. 138 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:50.950 I really liked it. Did you have a favorite part of this book 139 00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:54.500 out of all the little you know mine traps that he talks about. I, 140 00:09:54.659 --> 00:10:00.659 like I said, I think it's that I was I'm able to observe 141 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:05.019 why people are saying the things they do and think the way they do and 142 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:11.210 not get as irritated. Agreed. Paradigm shifting that part. Imagine it a 143 00:10:11.289 --> 00:10:16.330 spreadsheet filled with rows and rows of your sales enablement assets. You've devoted two 144 00:10:16.370 --> 00:10:20.840 years to organizing this masterpiece, only for it to stop making sense. This 145 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.200 was Chad forbuccoes reality. As the head of sales enablement at glint, a 146 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:31.080 linkedin company, he's responsible for instilling confidence in his sales reps and arming them 147 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.320 with the information they need to do their jobs. However, when his glorious 148 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.190 spreadsheet became too complex, he realized he needed a new system. That's when 149 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:43.710 Chad turned to guru. With Guru, the knowledge you need to do your 150 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:48.149 job finds you. Between Guru's Web interface, slack integration, mobile APP and 151 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:54.700 browser extension. Teams can easily search for verified knowledge without leaving their workflow. 152 00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:58.779 No more siload or staled information. Guru acts as your single source of truth. 153 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:03.450 For Chad, this meant glent sales reps were left feeling more confident doing 154 00:11:03.529 --> 00:11:09.850 their jobs. See why leading companies like glint, shopify, spotify, slack 155 00:11:09.009 --> 00:11:15.809 and more are using guru for their knowledge management needs. Visit BB growth dot 156 00:11:15.970 --> 00:11:22.159 get gurucom to start your thirty day free trial and discover how knowledge management can 157 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:28.399 empower your revenue teams. All right, well, so next up we've got 158 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.639 the self relying entrepreneurs three hundred and sixty six daily meditations to feed your soul 159 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:37.230 and grow your business by John Jance. This book is replacing my great American 160 00:11:37.269 --> 00:11:41.029 bathroom book because it's just got this wonderfully concise nature and John's been on the 161 00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:46.309 show many times now. So tell us about the Self Reliance Entrepreneur. That's 162 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:48.659 right, he is now a member of the marketing book podcast for Timers Club, 163 00:11:50.179 --> 00:11:54.019 which, as a listeners will know, that gets him coupons at any 164 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:58.700 Kansas City Taco bell location. Oh Yeah, Oh yeah, it's very exclusive. 165 00:11:58.740 --> 00:12:01.370 These authors are writing more and more books just so they can, you 166 00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:05.169 know, get get higher on the toadboard. Yes, that's right, I've 167 00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:09.090 unleashed a monster, totally competitive. So actually, I saw him at content 168 00:12:09.129 --> 00:12:11.450 marketing world a couple of years ago and he I said, as I say 169 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:13.649 to any author that I run into, I say, Hey, any more 170 00:12:13.649 --> 00:12:16.120 books in the running, in the works, and he said yeah, but 171 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:22.120 it's kind of different. And basically this is a book that draws on the 172 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:28.279 transcendentalism literature movement of the nineteen century, like Hennerson throw and Melville and Emily 173 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:33.590 Dickinson and all of those folks, and a lot of what they wrote about 174 00:12:35.029 --> 00:12:43.470 were being self reliant and taking charge of yourself and and thinking independently. And 175 00:12:43.870 --> 00:12:46.419 I just thought it was brilliant that he, you know, he liked them, 176 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:52.019 he studied them a lot and realize it was it was so such a 177 00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:56.779 neat overlay with the entrepreneurial world. And so what he did is and I 178 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:01.289 can only imagine this book must have taken him forever to research, because, 179 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:07.730 no kidding, every day there is an excerpt from one of those many authors. 180 00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:15.279 There's probably twenty different authors, and then he also writes what that means 181 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:20.159 to an entrepreneur and there's a different one for every day of the year and 182 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.080 he explains in the beginning about all of this sort of thing. And when 183 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.870 I first heard about it I told him it reminded me of the book that 184 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:33.750 Ryan Holliday did called the daily Stoic, which I hadn't and you open it 185 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:39.149 up to a particular day and it's something about how to think about stoicism and 186 00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:43.019 which I find very interesting and I and both of them have it broken down 187 00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:46.220 in different parts of the year where they kind of group some of the different 188 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.580 thoughts. Well, it turns out that they both have the same publicist and 189 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:56.409 so there was a little across fertilization and very real very different topics. But 190 00:13:56.769 --> 00:14:00.889 the publicist, who actually I think was the CO author of Ryan Holidays Book, 191 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:03.970 He kind of cut that idea in in in John's head and this is 192 00:14:05.049 --> 00:14:07.690 a very, very thoughtful book. And now there are two books for when 193 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.200 I wake up in the morning, Theiley STOIC and the self relying entrepreneur. 194 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.679 So some of the transcendentalists were there. are a little less, slightly, 195 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:24.240 less successible for some folks, but the his his synopsis or his summary of 196 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:30.149 each day as really very thoughtful and he really poured his heart and soul into 197 00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:33.389 this because there is a certain vulnerability with being an entrepreneur. Yeah, you 198 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.429 could tell. You could tell that when you're reading the material and each day 199 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:41.299 and it's pretty broad range of subjects, mostly central to becoming a better person. 200 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.419 I really like the theme and in fact I think it compliments they daily 201 00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:48.299 still look pretty good actually. I think because of its nature, is probably 202 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:50.860 will never get old. Right. You could go back to June eleventh and 203 00:14:50.019 --> 00:14:54.769 a year from now and get a totally different experience and perspective from reading that 204 00:14:54.929 --> 00:14:58.929 same thing. So I think that makes it probably a timeless book. I 205 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:03.210 also is such a great book to give to somebody that's starting their own business 206 00:15:03.250 --> 00:15:07.360 or, totally to give to someone who is already running your own business, 207 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.480 who started, excuse me, started their own business. It's a it's a 208 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.200 terrific gift. I'm going to be giving it a lot. Agreed to. 209 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.120 And now one of you. One of the things that you guys mentioned on 210 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:22.309 the podcast interview was that question. What do you appreciate most about Your Entrepreneurial 211 00:15:22.389 --> 00:15:26.029 Journey? And I thought that is a great, great question. It's just 212 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:30.429 loaded with value. If you just for to contemplate that one question. That's 213 00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:33.909 right, he's got a question for every day. And then the thing is, 214 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:35.379 it's like I want to say, I'm on to you. Chance he 215 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:39.259 asked this question. You think about it. All Day. It's really got 216 00:15:39.340 --> 00:15:43.620 me doing the one thing that I hate to do, which is thank thank 217 00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:48.340 well. His takeaway was that he hoped readers are going to be just become 218 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:52.490 more mindful by reading. I don't know how you could not do that by 219 00:15:52.809 --> 00:15:56.250 and so I have a lot of other John Jazz books on my shelf all 220 00:15:56.649 --> 00:15:58.610 marked up and dog geared, but that this book's they were going to make 221 00:15:58.649 --> 00:16:02.850 it to the myself because I've incorporated it, like you said, into your 222 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:04.480 morning routine. And he also mentioned the interview. And if you heard this, 223 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.360 but it's got a ribbon in it. I don't know if you bought 224 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.039 the hard copy, but there's a ribbon in it like you'd see in a 225 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.080 Bible or a hymnull or something. Sure it's you can keep track of which 226 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:15.759 day and you just joke. He said I always wanted to write a book 227 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:19.350 that had a ribbon. Now he's there. He's there. Well, he's 228 00:16:19.629 --> 00:16:23.950 think about he's distilled centuries of wisdom into these short, bite size chunks, 229 00:16:25.029 --> 00:16:27.509 you know, to immediately gate access to this deeper level of leadership. So 230 00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:30.789 I don't know. There's some people arguing that this is his best book. 231 00:16:30.789 --> 00:16:33.820 It's definitely different than the other marketing books, but I liked it a lot. 232 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:40.139 I think this book could be around long after John Janz is around. 233 00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:44.179 The other words, this I think this book will outlive all of his other 234 00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:48.690 fantastic books and, by the way, his first really big book, the 235 00:16:48.769 --> 00:16:51.889 most probably most famous, when his duct tape marketing in Yeah, two thousand 236 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:56.009 and twenty. He's completely revising that and coming out with a new addition. 237 00:16:56.450 --> 00:16:59.929 Oh, exciting, stay too. Yeah, we will get early access, 238 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:03.039 hopefully. All right. So well, next up we've got beyond product by 239 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.400 Jill solely and todd, Williams and wilms. That is, and I really 240 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.359 enjoy concisely written books, if you can hand rise. They are way harder 241 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.319 to write right. It's Mark Twain. Sorry I wrote such a long letter. 242 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.869 I didn't have to. I didn't have time to write a short one. 243 00:17:17.869 --> 00:17:22.150 Right. So I would say it's this tightly wound ball of practical marketing 244 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.630 insight. So tell us a little bit about your interview. It's you'll slowly. 245 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:33.539 The book is by two a longtime silicon valley marketing pros, and so 246 00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:36.940 they're very in tune with the startup culture and so forth, and the funny 247 00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:41.940 story is that I was talking to a company one day some months ago and 248 00:17:42.460 --> 00:17:49.130 they manufactured these products, and was talking to the CEO and founder and he 249 00:17:49.329 --> 00:17:52.529 was just really frustrated. So, you know, was talking to me sort 250 00:17:52.569 --> 00:17:56.769 of like what's the answer? How do what? What's the silver bullet? 251 00:17:56.849 --> 00:17:59.920 And I said, well, yeah, I wish it, I wish there 252 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:03.839 were one, but the other certain things you need to do and we weren't 253 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.119 going to be able to help him. But I was able to recommend a 254 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.519 couple of books, as I'm happy to do for any listener that contacts me 255 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.509 for depending upon what their situation is, and I just thought, you know, 256 00:18:14.109 --> 00:18:17.910 he's thinks he's got the greatest product in the world has absolutely no sense 257 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:22.230 of what he's trying to accomplish here. The very next day her book showed 258 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.230 up and I thought, oh my goodness, this is a book that is 259 00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.259 different from the others and this is what I wanted to be able to recommend 260 00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:34.900 to that particular fellow I was talking about. So this she explain, and 261 00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:40.059 I she also say, James, that in reading this book as a Marketing 262 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:42.849 Guy, I was reading it thinking, no, I can't believe you're having 263 00:18:42.849 --> 00:18:47.730 to explain that. And then even in the interview we were laughing about she 264 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:52.849 because you know, there are some really very smart, extraordinarily well funded people 265 00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:57.279 in Silicon Valley, for instance, or the tech we he and she's actually 266 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.279 having to explain to them some of the most basic marketing things. So I 267 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.000 think that this book was short. I think shorter books are harder to right. 268 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:11.710 They're always good and this was very concise and it was almost like you 269 00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:17.349 could use this to explain it to somebody who just got off a spaceship what 270 00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:22.349 what marketing is and what kind of marketing person you need at different stages of 271 00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:27.059 your growth. And one of the most important concepts in the book was product 272 00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:32.140 market fit. And the problem there is one of you know is always is 273 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:37.099 in marketing and sales, is empathy. They don't understand that what they're selling 274 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:41.890 is not necessarily with their customers are buying and there's all kinds of things they 275 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:45.569 need to do to figure out if there is in fact really a demand for 276 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.289 this and sometimes they actually overthink it, they overcook it. So what were 277 00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:52.569 your thoughts? Now? I thought it was fantastic there and that area you're 278 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:55.440 talking about, you know, don't focus on too larger market was a common 279 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:57.599 pitfall that she sees. I think I see when I go visit clients, 280 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.000 you know, and where does the product fit into their lives, you know, 281 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.559 and even if you're something new and you think you have no competitors, 282 00:20:07.589 --> 00:20:10.750 there is always alternatives to what you're doing. There's always an alternative to what 283 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:14.190 you're doing, and so you don't want the startups tend to think they don't 284 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:15.630 have a competitor out there because they're doing something brand new, but that's not 285 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:19.470 whatever the status quo is is there. So I enjoyed that. Not only 286 00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:23.619 that, is she's broken it down into these five at the beginning, these 287 00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:29.220 five components of marketing, corporate marketing, demand generation marketing, operations, product 288 00:20:29.259 --> 00:20:30.940 marketing, and I would think that you're in my favorites would be the field 289 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:37.009 marketing, which is sort of that importance of the marketing and sales alignments between 290 00:20:37.049 --> 00:20:41.970 those two and so but, like you say, this is like a little 291 00:20:41.009 --> 00:20:45.210 field guide to how do you take someone from really small to really big and 292 00:20:45.490 --> 00:20:49.240 should they've done it masterfully in a very small format. So I just I 293 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.359 enjoyed the whole thing. Other chapters include things like prove the product, prove 294 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:59.119 the business, exiting the business, hiring outcomes based marketing about, you know, 295 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.079 measuring what you're doing. My favorite chapter, though, was one that 296 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:06.349 had I've never seen a chapter title in any of the hundreds of books that 297 00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:10.349 have been on the show. It's chapter two, which is titled What Is 298 00:21:10.549 --> 00:21:15.670 Marketing? That's getting at the ground level, folks, you know, and 299 00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:18.460 for me it's so interesting. I learned things in this bookcase, I do 300 00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:25.460 from all of them, but what's also interesting to me is how an author 301 00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:29.380 explains a concept that I'm already familiar with, because I'm just I just really 302 00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:32.700 admire how a lot of these authors are able to explain something in a newer, 303 00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:37.170 different way that might be clearer to people that are not familiar with our 304 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:40.009 world. Agreed, you know. Actually, the thing I really like the 305 00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:41.730 best about this book, and it is a theme that keeps coming up on 306 00:21:41.890 --> 00:21:48.680 excellent books on your show, is it is just stunning how many organizations don't 307 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.240 spend any time with their clients and the and you just cannot be successful in 308 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.799 any way if you don't understand who your customer is and if you're trying to 309 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:03.190 and addressing the problems that they have and yet nobody is doing this. Nobody 310 00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:06.349 is doing this. We're so you focus on solving their problems, not on 311 00:22:06.509 --> 00:22:10.829 selling your product. That's a line I highlighted in the book as soon as 312 00:22:10.829 --> 00:22:12.829 I saw that, because that is such a common thing, is that we 313 00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:17.700 think about our products rather than thinking about the problems that were solving for customers. 314 00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:19.339 Yes, and there was another quote in her book that I just found 315 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:26.539 irresistible. She talks about how a lot of these businesses, they think, 316 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:30.170 I've got a great product. Why am I not menting money? And the 317 00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:33.890 book explains a lot of that in a way that, again, it's not 318 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:37.450 judgments. She's trying to teach these folks sort of what they have to understand. 319 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:44.009 And the other thing that was so interesting in the book was that she'll 320 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:45.720 talk to a lot of companies, and I hear a lot of them say 321 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:52.519 this to they'll say, you know, we haven't done any marketing and they 322 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.880 don't understand what marketing is. Of course, you know, if you think 323 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.880 about it, one of those models like the four P's, which came out 324 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.630 in one thousand nine hundred and sixty, still still works. I think it's 325 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:04.509 better than better than nothing, but it's marketing, is you know your product. 326 00:23:04.829 --> 00:23:08.630 It's it's the pricing. How do you charge and how does the customer 327 00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:12.059 by? It's the place, meaning how do you distribute it? Are you 328 00:23:12.099 --> 00:23:17.220 selling through channels? Are you selling online? I used to have a distributors 329 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:19.339 all a sort of thing. And then the fourth pe, and it's in 330 00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:22.579 this order for reason, is promotion. You don't really want to promote your 331 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:26.140 product until you got those first three out of the way. So a lot 332 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:30.009 of companies then start to understand that they've actually been making marketing decisions every single 333 00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:36.569 day, they just haven't been maybe paying money for promotion. So that helps 334 00:23:36.609 --> 00:23:37.890 them. But the the quote that she had in there, I don't know 335 00:23:37.930 --> 00:23:41.839 where it came from, but she said he who has a thing to sell 336 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:48.240 and goes and whispers in a well is not so apt to get the dollars 337 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:53.960 as he who climbs a tree and hollers. And that's perfect, because that 338 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.470 kind of is her one takeaway right, which is don't undervalue marketing. It 339 00:23:59.589 --> 00:24:02.430 can, you can make a massive difference for your organization. Yes, that's 340 00:24:02.430 --> 00:24:04.630 right. She talked about the very beginning. She's saying it was. She 341 00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:08.309 has plenty of case studies to show how it's made an enormous difference. It's 342 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:15.140 turned sales growth trends into a into a hockey stick. But you kind of 343 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:17.819 have to know what you're doing. It's like back when I was more in 344 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:21.339 the advertising world, you know, the joke was that everyone was an advertising 345 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:25.130 expert because they had all seen television ads at one time. Of course it's 346 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:27.289 so people who have been exposed to marketing thing, oh, that's what marketing 347 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:30.849 is. Oh, okay, yeah, or a magazine, nod, yeah, 348 00:24:32.210 --> 00:24:33.930 where they so? No doubt. Well, so her one thing he 349 00:24:33.970 --> 00:24:38.799 could do was just stop and articulate who your customer is and then just ask 350 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:44.400 yourself if you're doing everything that that customer needs. So very simple, one 351 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:47.880 thing you can do again. That for me, that's the biggest takeaway of 352 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:49.519 the book overall. There's a ton. It's everything from soup to nuts here, 353 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:52.269 honestly, in the book and in a very tight way. I think 354 00:24:52.269 --> 00:24:57.190 it would be very good for some an entrepreneur who maybe you know how has 355 00:24:57.190 --> 00:25:00.069 an invention or a p product or something like that and then is now in 356 00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:03.269 the business world of trying to get the get this out to the market, 357 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:07.380 into the world understanding what that it does and what that process looks like on 358 00:25:07.460 --> 00:25:11.140 a very short basis. Yeah, and I think a lot of venture capitalist 359 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:17.259 should probably read the book. Yes, and but just based on my experience, 360 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:22.809 they're hemorrhaging money like it's really so funny that they're their financial whizzes, 361 00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:27.450 or supposed to be, and yet they waste a lot of money on the 362 00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:33.210 wrong kind of sales and marketing approaches. So, you know, the dirty 363 00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:34.329 little secret of the book, though, and I don't can't remember if I 364 00:25:34.369 --> 00:25:38.240 mentioned this turn the interview, is that this book applies to bigger companies too. 365 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.279 Oh Yeah, oh, yeah, she's there's all well that. It's 366 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:45.240 the same thing about the products. You could go in there and say, 367 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.720 what is your cot? Is Your ideal customer look like? Ideal customer? 368 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.470 You know, I'm this is astonishing. So there's a lot, so many 369 00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:55.549 companies we can help one time, James, you know. Yeah, yeah, 370 00:25:55.589 --> 00:25:57.509 well, there's the thing you can do. Just focus on your customer. 371 00:25:57.549 --> 00:26:00.789 That would be a great first step, as you mentioned in your Keno 372 00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:03.619 last time we did this. I'm all about maximizing my reading time and I 373 00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:07.019 think that, beyond product has probably got to be the highest pay at one 374 00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:11.180 of the highest payoff books because it's just so concise and they all and the 375 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:14.859 INCIS are all very saling. So great, great payoff in your investment of 376 00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:18.500 time in this particular one. So I could tell you enjoyed the book. 377 00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:22.450 To any particular point in there you plan to leverage the most, probably the 378 00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:25.369 way that she explains things. Some of us, I've been working on some 379 00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:30.289 of the presentations and I'm borrowing from her book and I show a picture of 380 00:26:30.329 --> 00:26:33.640 the book and I show a picture of her, but even just the title 381 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:40.119 is helpful because so many companies, and certainly with manufacturers we work with, 382 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.240 they think it's all about the product, and there's a reason why. I 383 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:45.240 mean there's a there's a reason why they're very focus on the product, but 384 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:51.029 it's they've got to go beyond that and I think more and more than were 385 00:26:51.029 --> 00:26:53.349 understanding that. You know, they realize they can't interrupt people and they can't 386 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:57.750 pay for attention like they used to, so they're having to earn their attention 387 00:26:57.789 --> 00:27:00.819 and they keep't do that if they're not focused on their customers, in the 388 00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:07.900 customers problems before they start warbling on about their product. Yet Amen, all 389 00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:11.140 right. Well, last up we've got the ten stories the great leaders tell 390 00:27:11.299 --> 00:27:15.019 by Paul Smith, and I'm a huge Paul Smith Fan. One of these 391 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.529 other titles, cell with the story, has been on my desk here actually 392 00:27:18.569 --> 00:27:21.250 ever since I read it. It's all marked up and highlighted. So I 393 00:27:21.369 --> 00:27:25.170 was really excited to see maybe some of those a pencils applied to leadership in 394 00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:27.250 this book. So tell us a little bit about Paul Smith, the ten 395 00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:32.000 stories that great leaders tell. This book only takes an hour to read and, 396 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:33.160 as I told him in the interview, it took me an hour and 397 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.799 sixteen minutes because I kept stopping to write down ideas. But it's a it's 398 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.240 a beautiful book. It's a great book to give to your CEO or any 399 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.990 kind of leadership in your company, and it'll get read too because it's so 400 00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:49.589 tight. Yeah, it's. It's I mean you really have to know what 401 00:27:49.829 --> 00:27:56.630 storytelling is and he has spent years working on that and can really explain it. 402 00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:00.019 And this was if you are hearing the term storytelling you're not quite sure 403 00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:03.740 what it is, read this book is I told him I didn't really understand 404 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:07.980 this whole storytelling thing till a few years ago when I read his book cell 405 00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:11.299 with a story, which is just one of the one of the greatest sales 406 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:18.690 books, and he explains that storytelling is very misunderstood by businesses. It's not 407 00:28:18.769 --> 00:28:23.329 about making things up. First off. It's about presenting information in the way 408 00:28:23.490 --> 00:28:29.039 that the human brain wants to receive it and to remember it. So you 409 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:34.960 put something in a story form. And he works with a lot of companies 410 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.240 and gives keynotes all over the world. So for those people that understand that 411 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:42.589 they need a story, the number one questions always getting is okay, and 412 00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:48.150 I get it, which story should I work on first? So, in 413 00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:52.349 other words, in his book cell with a story, he showed the twenty 414 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:57.259 five different types of stories every salesperson and company should have. Now they're not 415 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:00.380 the same story, in other words, the story of your founding, the 416 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:04.660 story of a happy customer, all these different types of things. This one 417 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:10.609 was a some of those and one of the things in his that we talked 418 00:29:10.650 --> 00:29:14.849 about was how this is not a book just for CEOS. You could have 419 00:29:15.049 --> 00:29:19.289 a department of one you, but if you're having to lead change in your 420 00:29:19.329 --> 00:29:25.839 organization, you're a leader and the way you do that is by telling stories. 421 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.720 So these were sort of the greatest hits and he gives an example of 422 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.599 them and they are like, for instance, I mentioned the founding story. 423 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:40.470 That's like where we came from, and he explains the elements of that story. 424 00:29:40.549 --> 00:29:44.309 You don't want, you know, our moby Dick. There's this. 425 00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:48.269 There's a few things you need to explain about where you came from and how 426 00:29:48.509 --> 00:29:52.740 to explain them. And there's another one that, as so many of these, 427 00:29:52.779 --> 00:29:56.420 are relevant to sales in marketing. But the the next one was called 428 00:29:56.779 --> 00:30:00.619 why we can't stay here, which is a case for change. Now, 429 00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:07.410 CEO's need to be always trying to manage change, but every single person who 430 00:30:07.210 --> 00:30:11.329 has the job title of sales there in the change business, their selling change, 431 00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:18.369 and that's super relevant. But he's got others about out your vision and 432 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.079 corporate values. I'm just looking through the table of contest. There's strategy, 433 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.759 there's the customer story, probably the best for our audiences, sales story and 434 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.240 marketing story. Yeah, and you s got some time on that, because 435 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.599 that's right well, and it's like the sales story. It's not what you 436 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.549 sell. He the title of Chapter Seven is what we do for our customers, 437 00:30:38.589 --> 00:30:44.150 and you put that in this story format and then like the what he 438 00:30:44.230 --> 00:30:47.829 calls the marketing story, Chapter Eight. It's, how weird different from our 439 00:30:47.910 --> 00:30:52.460 competitors, but you put it in a story format and people get it. 440 00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:56.460 And his illustrations that are excellent, by the way. So the story he's 441 00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:02.940 using to illustrate the concept is a perfect and it's for a fairly basic business. 442 00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:04.329 So I really thought that was great. And there's, I guess there's 443 00:31:04.410 --> 00:31:10.130 there's hundreds of kinds of stories that he's he's documented, but these are ten 444 00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:12.769 that he said, the ones that come up most often, and so I 445 00:31:12.809 --> 00:31:18.130 think, you know, if somebody only read one book about storytelling, they 446 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.119 should read this one. And I think that sales people would really benefit from 447 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.000 this, me too, and it's easy place to start, also if you're 448 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.759 just getting into this storytelling. And then you could and there's a nice template 449 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.190 in the back of the book, kind of a yeah, where he says, 450 00:31:33.910 --> 00:31:36.990 well, he says look, don't try and do all ten of these. 451 00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.029 Here's a little grid in the back that I think there's he's also got 452 00:31:41.109 --> 00:31:44.109 a workbook that goes with this book, but he's got a grid in the 453 00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:48.140 back saying figure out which one of these is the most important right now? 454 00:31:48.339 --> 00:31:51.779 Okay, then then number them one through ten and just start on the first 455 00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:55.819 one and determine who's going to help you put that story together. And you 456 00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:59.779 can do it rather quickly. And this is a great example of the secret 457 00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:02.730 of getting ahead is getting started, because it doesn't have to be perfect, 458 00:32:02.769 --> 00:32:07.130 but if you start on it within a within telling it two or three times, 459 00:32:07.450 --> 00:32:10.210 you can start revising it and realizing, okay, I can rough out 460 00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:14.769 some of those edges and it's people going to appreciate and understand what I'm trying 461 00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:16.400 to explain to them even better. Jeff, you did one a month, 462 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:20.480 you could have them all done before the end of the year. So now, 463 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:22.000 in fact, that what you just said. It was his takeaway, 464 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.119 right, is this say, just take whatever one you think is the most 465 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.240 important story for you and implement that now. Yeah, it's a matter of 466 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:34.589 fact. Today, I hear from listeners every day and they are always asking, 467 00:32:34.670 --> 00:32:36.950 as I invite them to ask, you know, what's a good book 468 00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:40.349 or recommendation or whatever, and I heard from this one consultant in Canada and 469 00:32:40.549 --> 00:32:45.380 she said, God, about eighteen clients. It's a service based business, 470 00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:50.500 and what are some books and she picked out one from that was on the 471 00:32:50.539 --> 00:32:53.779 show earlier this year, small business guide to marketing by Rowhead Bargava, which 472 00:32:53.859 --> 00:33:00.730 was equally brilliant, and I had recommended that they also give those clients the 473 00:33:00.849 --> 00:33:04.930 new rules of marketing and PR by David Merman Scott, which is in its 474 00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:08.089 sixth edition, and I recommended this book too. I think is a wonderful 475 00:33:08.130 --> 00:33:14.759 gift, Nice triffect actually. Well, I would say this that the ten 476 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:19.039 stories, greatly yourself, provides a great step by step guidance on how to 477 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:22.319 identify the stories that are, you know, key for Your Business how to 478 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.880 construct those stories for massive impact. So honestly, I can't think of a 479 00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:29.630 leader in any organization that wouldn't benefit from this and, like you said, 480 00:33:29.670 --> 00:33:34.029 I think even sales and marketing individuals could benefit from this. So and it's 481 00:33:34.029 --> 00:33:37.630 sort of like the beyond product where I read it and I just marveled at 482 00:33:38.789 --> 00:33:42.859 how did you figure out what not to put in here? It's so because 483 00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.660 he's done it so long. I know, I know. So that's why 484 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:47.140 it's getting good at it. It's like great sculpture, you know. It's 485 00:33:47.140 --> 00:33:51.539 about removing all the parts that don't need to be there. So, yeah, 486 00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:54.579 excellent. Well, this one's books are another sellar collection of big name 487 00:33:54.619 --> 00:33:59.289 Authors and insightful books. So tell us what new books you have coming up. 488 00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:05.569 On the marketing book podcast we have the three minute rule. Say Less 489 00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:10.920 to get more from any pitch or presentation by Brad Pinvittic and the the next 490 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.519 book is they ask you answer. A revolutionary approach to inbound sales content marketing 491 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:22.679 in today's digital consumer, revised and updated second edition by Marcus Sheridan. Social 492 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:28.230 media success for every brand, the five story brand pillars that turn posts into 493 00:34:28.349 --> 00:34:34.469 profits by Claire Diaz or Tis, and lessons essays to help you embrace the 494 00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:38.179 chaos by Mark Shay for who, when he's on the show he will be 495 00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:44.659 the one and only member of the marketing book podcast six Timers Club, the 496 00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:46.820 king. That's right. That's why he's the King of the marketing book podcast 497 00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:50.460 now, much like Elvis was the king of rock and roll, or is, 498 00:34:50.659 --> 00:34:53.449 I should say. And that's it for this month's be tob growth show 499 00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:58.250 book talk. To learn more about the marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book 500 00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:01.610 Podcastcom see what I did there, and to learn more about James and his 501 00:35:01.849 --> 00:35:07.800 excellent book, one of my favorites. The perfect close visit pure mirrorcom. 502 00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:15.000 That's spelled pure muirecom, and if either of US can recommend a specific sales 503 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.920 or marketing book or other resource for whatever situation you find yourself in, feel 504 00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:22.110 free to connect with us on Linkedin, where we can chat and I'll do 505 00:35:22.429 --> 00:35:27.190 our best to get you pointed in the right direction. And remember, keep 506 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:35.550 learning, because these days the big learners are big earners. We totally get 507 00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:38.219 it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be 508 00:35:38.380 --> 00:35:42.900 a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the B tob growth 509 00:35:43.059 --> 00:35:46.619 big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from 510 00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:52.369 an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. 511 00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:57.050 That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three