Transcript
WEBVTT
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Are you struggling to come up with
original content weekend and week out? Start
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a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care
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about most and never run out of
content ideas again. Learn more at sweet
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fish Mediacom. You're listening to BB
growth, a daily podcast for B TOB
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leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably
heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and
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Simon Senek, but you've probably never
heard from the majority of our guests.
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That's because the bulk of our interviews
aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most
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of our guests are in the trenches
leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing
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strategy, they're experimenting with tactics,
they're building the fastest growing BB companies in
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the world. My name is James
Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish
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media, a podcast agency for BB
brands, and I'm also one of the
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CO hosts of this show. When
we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders,
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you'll hear stories from behind the scenes
of our own business. Will share the
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ups and downs of our journey as
we attempt to take over the world.
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Just getting well, maybe let's get
into the show. Hello and welcome to
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the BB growth show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas for Dad, hosts of
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the marketing book podcast, where each
week I published an interview with the author
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of a new marketing or sales book
to help my listeners succeed in the quickly
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changing world of marketing and sales.
Joining me as my friend James Mure,
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author of the perfect close, the
secret to closing sales, the best selling
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practices and techniques for closing the deal. I read every book featured on the
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Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads
even more books than I do and he
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listens to every episode of the Marketing
Book Podcast, so I'm delighted that he
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can join me in this monthly episode
of the B Tob Growth Show. We
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briefly recap some of the key ideas
from the marketing and sales books that were
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recently featured on the marketing book podcast. James, welcome to the be tob
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growth show book talk. Thank you. I guess in this episode we're going
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to talk about for recent books featured
on the marketing book podcast, which are
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Nincompooperre, my favorite title ever.
Yeah, why? Your customers, hey
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you, and how to fix it, by John Brandt. Rehumanize your business,
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how personal videos accelerate sales and improve
customer experience by Ethan Butte. Flip
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the script, getting people to think
that your idea is their idea, by
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or in Claugh and Growth Iq.
Get smarter about the choices that will make
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or break your business by Tiffany Bova. So let's get it on. First
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up we've got nincompoopery. Why your
customers hey you and how to fix it
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by John Brandt, and you know, it is a rare book that can
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deliver valuable insight that's relatable and keep
your interests by also making you laugh,
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and this book does that. So
tell us a little bit about John Brandt's
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nincompoopery. It's one the entertaining book, brilliantly written and once again, ex
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journalists write some of the best books, and he's he was an industry week
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and a number of other places,
so he what he talks about is an
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incompoopery, and it doesn't mean that
employees of companies are an incompost but he
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talks about this sort of stupid behavior
that personifies itself because bad decisions are made
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and he talks in the book about
how for success in business or for businesses,
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and this is based on a lot
of research that his his company did.
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Is basically a three legged stool of
innovation, talent and process. So,
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in other words, there's lots of
things you could be focusing on.
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Many companies do, and many people
and executives are distracted by all the the
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noise. But innovation, the talent
you have working for you and the processes
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in Your Business and the innovation is
something that, of course, a lotting
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a manufacturers talk about and is a
buzzword that everyone loves. But he explains
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that too many companies think of innovation
as hitting some Grand Slam, sorry to
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use a American baseball analogy. All
the folks overseas don't understand that, but
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it's they think about. They've got
to had this one breakthrough product and that's
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really going to make it all happen. And he explains that that rarely works
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that way. Most new products don't
work and most new products are not sufficiently
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marketed and supported with sales effort.
And he explains that for innovation, the
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greatest innovation usually has to do with
where's the frustration in your customers life?
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MMM, how can you make that
easier? Yeah, that's one of the
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biggest insights I got from this book
is the importance of viewing things from the
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most important perspective, which is the
customers and the employees perspective. Yes,
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yes, and so in terms of
talent, you know, intellectual capital that
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you have at your company, and
that's the thing that the most successful companies
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are doing, is they are making
sure that they are hiring the right kinds
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of people for their organization and then
training them and inspiring them, basically in
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engaging their their minds and also appreciating
that in this labor market, they could
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leave. So you have to do
more than just give them a paycheck.
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There's other things you need to do
nurse your talent. And now I know
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all the human resources executives listening to
this will already know that they're they're already
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saying, Duh, yeah, of
course you have to do that. But
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he explains that a lot of companies
really get that wrong. and Are you
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missing the boat? Maybe it's a
generational thing where they may be thinking other
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happy to have a job, but
the most successful companies are really focused on
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improving and cultivating the talent of their
workforce and a lot of good examples in
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the book. Yeah, yeah,
the last thing he's talks about his process
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and he says that's sort of like
the Broccoli of business where people don't want
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to focus on their processes. But
the most successful companies they are process oriented
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and they create a process and they
continuously refine the process and they are very
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much engaged with getting their people closest
to the process to update and refine the
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process. So really very refreshing book, a lot of fun, a lot
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of fun to interview him. Really, really very well done. Yeah,
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it does a great job of sort
of irreverently pointing out all the absurdity that
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is just so common in business today. One of my favorites was that customer
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free zones, a customer free zone, where he explains that everyone at your
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company should be somehow connected to customers
or help them understand that they are connected
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with customers. And actually the most
successful companies are making sure that their employees
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are observant of what their customers are
doing and are involved in their customers lives
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and basically doing everything they can to
help those customers get deeper, get those
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employees to get deeper insights into their
customer because a lot of the great innovative
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ideas come from throughout the organization.
And he refers to a lot of companies
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that have customer free zones where they
I don't deal with customers. No,
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that's not my problem and that's like
a for example in a maybe billing the
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thing. I don't deal with customers. Yes, you do, and the
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result of what you do in billing
has a big impact on that customers experience
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with your organization. Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's a very entertaining
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and humorous book. Of course you
can clean that from the title, and
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yet it's just packing a ton of
insight. So any last thoughts, favorite
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aspects or takeaways? I'd love to
see him talk. I think that.
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You know, writing is hard,
humor is even harder. Yeah, and
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this was a very entertaining book and
I've heard from listeners who've who've read it,
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who really got a lot out of
it. Yep, I was one
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of them. All right. Well, next up we've got rehumanize your business.
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How personal videos accelerate sales and improve
customer experience by Ethan buttes and facetofaces.
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Where it's at, and video is
a great way to accomplish that.
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This book covers that and more so. Tell us a little bit about rehumanize
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Your Business. So the listeners probably
wondering what's a personal video? Well,
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it's not a video of the boss
standing there in front of a screen,
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you know, a camera reading a
teleprompter. A personal video is where you've
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got a camera on your computer and
you can record a quick video to somebody
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and then attached to an email.
And the author's Ethan Butte and Steven Patch
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and Alle they are with a company
called Bombomb, which is a marketing and
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sales platform, email platform, that
where you can attach videos and send it
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to people. But they're really clear
that you don't have to use their product,
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although you can get a free trial
of it, you don't have to
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use their product to do what's in
their book that you know. I don't
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use their product and I send personal
videos. But they talked about how personal
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videos have enormous impact and there's some
studies they've done of how much greater the
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open rates are on a video than
has an email that has a video.
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The response rate is greater and it's
because of its ability to connect with our
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caveman brain. You see that video
and it's human and they talk about how
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you should just send that first video, no do overs, and by the
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time you get to the ten video
that you're sending somebody, you're a whole
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lot better, and then by the
time you send a hundred you're really good
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at it and if your flawed,
if you make mistakes, it's even better
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because you seem more human. But
they also go into the book about how
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emails are. You're never getting ready
of email. So it's a great app
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it's the killer APP, but the
people actually are spending more time typing out
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their their emails and sending them they
would to do a video and a lot
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of what they're typing out is either
not read or is misunderstood and you don't
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understand any of the other content text
behind it. And I had sent some
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personal videos and after reading the book
I've been sending a whole lot more,
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even just as they say, believe
it or not, it's actually faster just
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to record a quick video and send
it to somebody and they get what you're
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what you're trying to say. Agreed
and it creates a much better relationship.
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Right, and relationships as a whole. Point anything less than that we're leaving
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something on the table, and so
I think personal video will maybe not as
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good as an imperson meeting allows us
to create better relationships than any other channel
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that are at our disposal. And
I'll lets you scale up, because you
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don't have to leave. You can
just do it on your video and you
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can still remain personal while you're doing
it. Yes, and you shouldn't go
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buy a bunch of equipment to get
started with this. He said that most
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everybody already has on their computer what
they need. And if yeah, or
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your phone, yeah, you can
send it on your phone. Or you've
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got a most of us, like
I've got a IMAC here. It's got
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a camera on there and there's a
people can hear, there's a microphone on
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the computer. It's all there.
Just try sending it. Sin Send One
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to your spouse or your kids or
something. It's it's some I'm glad I
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read it and it reminded me of
the power of sending those videos and also
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when you send one of those,
you also know that people are going to
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appreciate it more. It stands out
and that's part of the data that they've
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got in terms of the openership and
how much of the message gets through the
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actual person. So yeah, I
rehumanize your business makes it just a air
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tight case for why using personal video
is critical for everybody. It's very practical,
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very step by step, very hands
on. I loved it. But
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you like best about the humanize Your
Business? Oh, probably that it reminded
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me that I should be doing it. And it's secret, the secret to
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guy. I had been doing some
of them, but the secret to get
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it has getting started. And sure
enough, by the ten one I did
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and sent, because I'm using them
for prospecting. I'm reaching out to,
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you know, companies and organizations to
introduce myself and see if we might be
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able to help them. And this
seems to work well. So Yep.
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Well, like Nike says, you
just do it right. That's kind of
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their there. Yeah, just get
started on it and start sending some of
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those videos. It's actually faster and
it's more effective. So I don't know,
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it's and again dog on it.
They had all that science, but
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yeah, and data and data behind
all the information they had there. So
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well, great book. Next up
we've got flip the script, getting people
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to think that your idea is their
idea by or in claugh and, holy
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smokes, I read this book in
one day. It was like, Oh
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really, yeah, it's like pure
entertainment with just some a few brilliant insights
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weaved into these amazing stories that are
in the book. So tell us a
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little bit about flip the script.
Well, so ornclaugh wrote the best seller
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pitch anything, which I believe it
is sold over a million copies, and
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that was about two thousand and eleven. I think you wrote that. So
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flip the script. What he does
in the book. It's an exciting book
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to read, which is why you
probably write in one day. What he
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does is he takes you around the
world on these really interesting stories and each
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story he tells he says that they're
real stories, but he changed the names
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of the companies and he's been involved
in it. You know, they're exciting,
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they're exciting read and each one of
them has an element of the different
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ways that you can flip the script
and get somebody to think their idea is
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yours. And then he ties it
all together at the very end. Now,
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the stories were, I shouldn't say
that they're almost too compelling, because
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I got so I got so into
the stories. I was worried that I
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was missing what. Is there some
point he's making here about that that I'm
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going to be tested on? But
yeah, he buried them in there really
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well story and pull out the the
insights in each one. He ties it
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up at the end. Yeah,
yeah, so it was really exciting,
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very entertaining and just to make sure
that we're providing some value here instead of
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saying it was a good bunch of
great stories, let me let me mention
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a couple of things that he talked
about. Where in selling now, as
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James Muir would know, you know, the way people buy is changed and
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the expectations people have for the control
that they want, and that's why it's
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so an in such an interesting idea
about how you really do need to make
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sure that it they feel like it's
their idea and there's ways to do it,
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you know, ethically, without,
you know, deceiving people. But
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a couple of things that and also, as I read through it, as
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he talked about some of these things, I realized, Oh yeah, I've
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been burned by that before. I've
had that problem. Like one of them
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was called dominance hierarchy or status alignment, where you are not helping yourself by
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taking a supplicant role in the buyer
seller situation. Right, so you know
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that's where your expertise comes in.
What did you think about that? Man,
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you know I'm talking about you,
don't. You start to come off
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as begging if you don't stand your
ground, and that's a major theme in
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pitch anything as well. But he
kind of covers it here and then add
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some concepts to that, something called
status alignment and then a status tipoff,
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which is a technique where you,
with your dialog you let them know that
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you're on the same level as them
and that you're not a subservient level.
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Yes, yes, and that's where
he said don't try and beat you should
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never try and be as someone.
But he even gave an example that in
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the interview I did with him where
we started talking about motorcycles and he asked
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me about what kind of motorcycle I
have and I told him and then he
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started using the wrong number. He
got a very minor detail wrong, and
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then afterwards he said now, what
did you think when I said that?
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I said I think you didn't know
what you were talking about, but you
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were trying to act like you did. He said, that's exactly that's exactly
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what it is where you you clearly
have to show that you know the inside
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baseball term and have the expertise when
you're talking to these folks. And a
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key mistake that people make is that
they use the wrong level of rapport a
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rediculously simple level of report, and
they think that that's improving their status with
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the client and that's that they doesn't
work. Right. Oh wait, you
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live in Florida. I've been to
Florida before. That is a lame level
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of rapport yeah, yeah, you're
from Jersey. I'm from Jersey. Right,
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amazing. Right. Yeah. So
he's got some other concepts in there,
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the certainty flash roll, which is
again another set of dialog to let
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them know right away that you know
exactly what you're talking about and you're completely
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qualified and you've dealt with this problem
that they have before exactly so well that
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they don't want to they don't want
to shake you down about it. And
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so that's the very key thing to
set because it's beats up the entire process
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and let's a move on to the
other parts of the sort of presentation as
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a conversation. Yeah, and he's
got this one point in the book he
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reminds you under the part about a
prewired idea. Right, you have to
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remind them. You're keep in mind. They are asking themselves, why do
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I care? What's in it for
me and why you? And too often
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in a presentation or sale situation that's
not at the forefront of the presenter or
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the seller's mind. And another idea
is this concept he has, of which
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is one of many, was winter
is coming. In other words, you
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have got to help them understand that
they are is a big proud they're standing
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on an an hill and they don't
know it. Winter is coming. There
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is something that you have expertise about
that you need to help them understand that.
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This is a ticking I bomb,
and this of course, comes up
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and eat their lunch. By Anthony
and Areno, sorry to go off script
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and talk about about book for a
while back, but you know him well.
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Where he says, you know,
you don't call up a company and
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say, I'd like to talk to
you find out about your business so see
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if you have any problems. No, you come to them now and say,
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based on my experience with similar companies
like yours, these are the four
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things you should be concerned about for
the next eighteen months. Right, that's
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winter. Yeah, that's winner is
coming. You didn't know that, did
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you? Right? So that.
Yeah, he calls these idea receptors,
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you know, where you're already pre
wired to accept certain ideas, and the
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the idea that winner is comings one
of those. That the other one was
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to x the amount of value.
And then skin in the game. was
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another concept that he added in there, which is they need to know you're
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all in. Yes, you're going
to you're gonna go, you're going to
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go and tell it's done. Not
until you're tired. You're going to go
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and tell us done. And that's
an important concept, he says, as
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part of the message that you're supposed
to be delivering. Yeah, two other
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things from the book that were interesting. Was One is he talks about leveraging
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pessimism and you need to go negative. He talks about how sales people there
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they're so optimistic, whereas you've got
to say you've got to say look,
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there's some downsides here and you've got
to help them understand that. See,
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they're already thinking pessimistically. What you're
trying to do is show them the four
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corners of the pessimism room. Right, and do it preemptively. Yes,
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right away, them to bring it
up. You're going to bring it up.
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Yeah, and also he talks about
how you you got to teach him
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how to buy whatever you're selling.
They don't know how to buy what you're
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selling, and then we seem to
appreciate that. Agreed. Well, this
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is I mean, I enjoyed the
book just because the stories were so engaging
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and then in weaved inside those little
stories for these little points, and I
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did have to have a pencil to
pull those out that he did come and
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cover them at the end. But
I really enjoyed the book. But what
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was your your favorite part of flip
the script? Well, it was like
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eating food that's really good for you, but it tastes even better than it
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is for you. You know what
I mean? Yes, it's like that.
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That can't be good for me.
So that it was just it was
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very entertaining and it was you had
some some things that had me think differently
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from some of the other books that
I've read about sales. Truly, there
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was some paradigm shifting things in there. All right. So well, last
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up we've got growth IQ getting smarter
about the choices that will make or break
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our business, by Tiffany Bova,
and this book is organized and written in
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a way that talks about some big
and difficult challenges for companies, but but
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has a conversation about that in a
very simple way, which I liked.
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So top was a little bit about
Growth Iq. So this book it covers
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the ten ways that companies can grow. So in some of them are not
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new, but she updates them and
she added a few extra ones. But
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she said basically, in this new
age there's there's really ten ways the companies
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can grow and they can do a
combination of a few of them. Of
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course they have to do them at
the right time and some of them don't
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work. But the reason I was
so interested in having this book on the
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Marketing Book podcast is because there are
a lot of CEOS who are, I
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know this because I worked at this
kind of company once, slamming their fists
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on the Conference Room Table saying go, go, make more money, go,
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go, go the business it,
go, go, make more cold
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calls, Go, do more ads, you know. And this is where
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a salesperson or a marketing person could
quietly guide their company towards one of the
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one or more of these ten ways
to grow. In other words, it's
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like saying go, make it rain. Well, okay, there's a few
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things that you have to do from
a strategic standpoint, and so let me
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just mention that. The real quickly, what the ten growth paths are for
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the listener. One of them is
customer experience. Basically give your customers a
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better experience it would, which then
makes them buy more and and and actually
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advocate for you. And every chapter
in the book or every section the book,
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she's got an example of companies that
did it well and companies did it
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badly. And some of the ones
that did it badly are those darlings of
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marketing books, like Smart Bucks or
Amazon. Surprised? Yeah, they've screwed
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up some certain things, and so
it's, you know, it's very credible.
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The second one is selling more existing
products to existing customers. I mean,
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you already know these people. Just
sell more to them. Third is
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expand into new markets with the products
you already have. So you can see
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how that's a little more difficult than
the second one I mentioned. The the
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fourth one is sell new products to
existing markets and the fifth one is sell
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new products to new customers, which
is really difficult. It's it's generally a
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riskier but it's done. It's done. The sixth one is the one that
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I'm sure James we were like,
and I secretly was my favorite. It
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was my favorite. It was called
optimized sales, streamline sales, efforts to
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increase productivity. My goodness, in
that section the inefficiency of certain sales processes
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at companies. If it were in
any other aspect of the business, the
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CEO and whoever's responsible for that department
have been fired long ago, and she
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has. Tiffany has a real expertise
in optimizing sales and that's just an enormous
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opportunity for so many companies. The
seventh one is minimized affection, you know,
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reducing your churn basically retain more customers. And, James Muir, do
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you see how that might actually be
connected to the first one, which was
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improving your customer experience? Yeah,
that's why we got we have sequences that
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she offers. Yes, yes,
and so reducing your churn. You know,
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there's some companies that are all about
chasing after the new customer. Yeah,
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don't worry about the existing ones.
They have very leaky buckets and from
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a revenue speed and revenue increase standpoint, if you could just keep the customers
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you have and sell more to them, it does more than than generating additional
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net new customers. All that.
You should try and do that as well.
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Eight was partnerships, which is a
third party alliances, channels, ECOS
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systems. You're starting to see a
lot more of that. It makes a
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lot more sense. There's a lot
of expertise. have their coopetition. That's
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where you cooperate with a what traditionally
would have been a competitor, but the
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truth is that within this world of
specialization, there may not be any overlap
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at all and it makes all kinds
of sense to cooperate with what you may
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have thought of as a as a
competitor. And the last one is called
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unconventional strategies, which was like purpose
driven businesses, where it's achieving a higher
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good or some sort of social benefit, like, I could give an example,
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like Tom Shoes or, I guess
warby Parker some of the others,
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where you buy something and then a
lot of their profits go into some mission
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that they have. Yeah, I
think at the beginning she says there's no
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one, there's no silver bullet and
that the right growth path is actually contextual.
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Right. Yes, it depends on
the circumstances in the events for the
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organization. That that's what determines which
of these strategies is going to be most
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appropriate for each organization. So there's
not it's not like number five and number
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eight of the best for everyone.
They depends on the organization. Right.
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And I again, like I said
before, you have to get it at
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the right time. But in the
interview, you know, back to my
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CEO slamming their fist on the conference
room table, she said, you know,
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in the past companies would say,
oh, we got to grow,
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all right, hire more salespeople,
do more marketing, cut prices. Right,
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it's not necessarily you know, all
three of those might not actually work.
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You could be pursuing these other things
which a generate proven growth. I
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do get a sense that her favorite
of all the strategies of competitive differentiation is
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customer experience. I think that's probably
why she included it as number one.
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That's just my sense. Well,
no, it's true, James, and
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and that was one of the big
threads of the book, is that through
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almost every one of those ten sections. The ones that succeed at whatever path
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they take are the ones that had
the deepest understanding of their customers. Agreed
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in and again she explain just like
back to Nim campoopery, where if you
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just understand your customers and find the
friction in their life, you're going to
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be that much closer to being more
successful and definitely more competitive. So yeah,
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that was that probably was my biggest
takeaway, where she explains that getting
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close to your customers, really understanding
them, you're just going to be more
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successful than you still have to pick
the right what makes sense for your business,
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but she gave example after example where
companies had, I'm almost embarrassed to
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say, no clue about their customers. Yeah, in fact, I think
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for the listener it's good they know
that this book is replete with examples.
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There's never an there's never a common
or a statement or a strategy that's not
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backed up with multiple examples. And
then every chapter actually starts with a bunch
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of metrics that explains why that particular
strategy is important. And so that's very
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guy. I'm being a being numbers
guy. I really enjoyed that piece of
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it. You too. There's a
reason it's a Wall Street Journal best seller.
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Yeah, no doubt, no doubt
it's awesome book and my favorite,
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obviously, was the sales part about
optimizing sales efficiency. And there's a couple
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of metrics in there that are just
mind blowing, and they've been around for
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years, so it's not like it's
the first time it's been published. But
379
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when you think about it, it's
just a mind blowing stat that, you
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know, sixty six percent of all
s sales professionals time is wasted on non
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selling activities. And then only about
half sales people ever hit quota. And
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so if you were just to get
your middle performers operating two to three percent
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better, that's going to make a
huge difference. And so what optimizing is?
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It mostly boils down to just maximizing
individual contributors time with customers, right,
385
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and if you think about that,
just, you know, reducing non
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selling time by maybe fifty percent,
that's that's the equivalent of doubling your sales
387
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force if they're really spending sixty six
percent of their time on non selling ex
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so I mean, and yet we
see just ridiculous administrative burdens put on sales
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people and sells professionals all across the
board. It's a it's a tragedy.
390
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Yes, and you know what else? That reminds me of a book called
391
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an incompoopery where he talked about process, process, just keep following that process
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and it starts to get better and
better. And in the interview with tiffany
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she talked about how we're not talking
about the top performing salespeople here. We're
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not talking about the James Mures of
your sales force. Okay, these are
395
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the ones sort of in the middle
where, if they just get a little
396
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bit better, dramatic increase exactly,
exactly. Well, I mean there's so
397
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much this is a good sized book
and there is a lot of excellent insights
398
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in this book. Your favorite parts
and take aways from this one? Well,
399
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like I said, the sales optimization, but also the part about the
400
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customer experience and engineering the experience that
the customers have and the fact that what
401
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it takes to succeed at customer experience
is going to make you successful in the
402
00:28:19.289 --> 00:28:25.049
other nine different routes to growth.
Yep, agreed. Well, I got
403
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to say this is a smoking collection
of books that we had this time.
404
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.759
So tell us a little bit about
what's coming up next on the marketing book
405
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:36.160
podcast. So next time we are
going to talk about the science of customer
406
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:41.470
connections. Manage your message to Grow
Your Business by Jim Carr. The innovation
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00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:45.589
mandate. The growth secrets of the
best organizations in the world by Nicholas Webb.
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indistractable, how to control your attention
and choose your life by near a,
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all marketing to the entitled consumer.
How to turn an unreasonable expectations into
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lasting relationships by nick worth, Dave
Franklin and Josh burnoff. And finally,
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the invisible brand. Marketing in the
age of automation, big data and machine
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learning by William Amerman. And that's
it for this month's BB grows show book
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talk. To learn more about the
marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book podcastcom.
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00:29:22.410 --> 00:29:25.839
And to learn more about James and
his excellent book the perfect close,
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visit pure mirrorcom. That's spelled pure
muirecom. And if either of US can
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recommend a specific sales or marketing book
or other resource for whatever situation you find
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yourself in, connect with us on
Linkedin, where we can chat and we
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will do our level headed best to
get you pointed in the right direction and
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maybe save you some time. And
remember, keep learning, because these days
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the big learners are the big earners. We totally get it. We publish
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a ton of content on this podcast
and it can be a lot to keep
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up with. That's why we've started
the B tob growth big three, a
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no fluff email that boils down our
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episodes. Sign up today at Sweet
Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH
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