Transcript
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Hello and welcome to the BDB gross
show, monthly book talk. I'm Douglas
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SPREADEAD host of the marketing book podcast, where each week I published an interview
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with the author of a new marketing
or sales book to help me and my
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listeners keep up with the latest ideasally
changing and somewhat overwhelming world of marketing and
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sales. Joining me is my friend
James Mure, author of the perfect close,
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the secret to closing sales. In
this monthly episode of the BDB Growth
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Show, we recap some of the
key ideas from the marketing and sales books
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recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on the
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Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads
even more books than I do and he
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listens to every episode of the Marketing
Book Podcast. So I'm delighted that he
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joined me and a lot of listeners
both of us for book recommendations. So
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if either of US can recommend any
marketing your sales books or other resources for
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whatever situation you find yourself in or
what you'd like to learn more about,
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please feel free to connect with us
on linkedin where we can chat and we'll
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do our best to get you pointed
in the right direction and, Hey,
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maybe even save you some time.
So, James, welcome back to the
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BEDB grows show, book talk.
Thank you, Douglas. You know I
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read every book and I listened to
every episode because you, my friend,
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have a great for books. Oh
that's all I can say. All right.
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Well, in this episode of Book
Talk We're going to talk about four
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recent books featured on the marketing book
podcast, and those are myths of social
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media, dismissed the misconceptions and you
social media effectively in business, by Michelle
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Carville and in mcgrae. Also the
age of influence, the power of influencers
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to elevate your brand, by Neil
Schaeffer. After that we have the Creator
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Mindset, Ninety two tools to unlock
the secrets of Innovation, growth and sustainability
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by near Bischan. And finally we
have life after the death of selling.
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Great title how to thrive in the
new era of sales by Tom sercy and
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Kara Jane. More so, first
up we've got the myths of social media.
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Dismiss the misconceptions and you social media
effectively in business by Michelle Carville and
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EMMACRAE. And this book does a
sort of a deep dive into the myths
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and realities of social medium for marketing
and brand management. So tell us a
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little bit about your your interview with
Michelle. Well, it's a terrific book
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and she listed twenty eight myths,
but I could never cover them all.
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I haven't sit right here in front
of me. So well, yeah,
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no, but I mean she could
have had seventy five. So it was
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what was interesting was the twenty eight
that she was able to get in the
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book and then of course she tries
to order them in the in the right
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you know order, yes, sequence, based on what she gets the most
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questions about. And so she's been
doing this for you know number of years
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and we joked that she's probably as
long as she's working, she's never going
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to stop explaining the mythology of certain
social media, these long held beliefs or
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just misunderstanding about social media. And
for anyone who has watched what is probably
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one of the greatest movies in the
American Film Catalog, I'm talking about zoolander,
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there's a scene where the the guy
played by will ferreld, says I
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feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
What he meant by that was that he
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was losing his mind because everybody was
being so ignorant. And so this board
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evoke that in me. And so
the some of the let me just touch
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on a couple of them. One
of them is this notion that social media
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is free. Right, right,
so's one. Yeah, I think that
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was number two. But social media
is free like a puppy is free.
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In other words, the platform may
be free to use. You know,
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they'll probably always keep them free to
because they want people engaging and joining,
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but everything else something. So,
in other words, you have to hire
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someone to manage it for you.
You have to hire somebody that make sure
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it sinks up with what you're trying
to do. Is A business. And
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then there are certain platforms where,
if you want further exposure, you have
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to pay for it, which is
you know, that works well for those
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social media platforms and and they can
certainly, you know, change it,
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but it's far from free. I
think the only thing free is the is
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the actual platfor post. Yeah,
yeah, so another one was about shirts
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say, surely social media so awesome
we could just ditch the whole website and
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just go a hundred percent all in
on social media, right yes, and
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stop calling me Shirley. I'm sorry, airplane movie reference bump. So yeah,
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that was another one was a social
media can replace Your Business website.
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And you know, maybe there's a
lot of smaller businesses that think that you
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can do that and you shouldn't do
that. And I'm going to talk about
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big businesses make kind of a similar
mistake, which is, first off,
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the smaller business. They're thinking,
you don't need a website. Well,
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the problem is that you are building
a house on rented property, right,
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and the platforms can change whatever they
want to do. You agree to their
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terms of service. But the other
thing that seems to surprise people, a
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lot of people that I talked to
who are, you know, civilians,
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who are not necessarily in the world
of marketing, they don't always realize that,
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like, let's say facebook, for
instance, if you post something in
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your facebook page and let's say you
have however many followers, facebook is only
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going to show that to about one
percent of your followers, right. And
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never like talk to a lot of
companies, and these are not stupid people
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I'm talking to. The justice isn't
their world they're in and they're like,
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Oh wow, I didn't realize it. If you want more exposure on facebook,
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you have to pay them for it. You know, good, good
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for facebook. It works. It
works for them. So the other thing
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that I still see with big businesses
is they are putting more effort into their
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social media than to their website,
which is the thing that they own.
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You know, you really social media
has a place, but before I would
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start going crazy on social media,
I would want to make sure my company's
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website is all that it can be, to use an old army slogan,
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before I started trying to drive more
people to it with, you know,
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social media. And that leads me
to the third one that I'll mention,
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which is social media is purely for
broadcasting. And she touches on this,
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and not just that myth but several
others, which is way too many marketers
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and businesses think of social media as
a one way communication channel. So,
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in other words, you can kind
of understand why someone would do this,
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because, let's say they're buying advertising
elsewhere and they look at this as another
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place to, quote, get it
out there for free, right, or
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pay for it to be shared or
exposed. But it's not just for broadcasting
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and people don't really respond well if
you're just out there talking about yourself or,
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as I like to say, we
all over yourself. We this,
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we that were the greatest. And
so that's that's a big problem. And
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actually, you know what, that
leads to another one of the topics in
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her books. She talks about how
social media, probably in that very chapter
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about broadcasting, social media is so
effective for listening to what people are saying.
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Right, that you can get information
off of social media if you're engaging
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appropriately to get information that in you
know, few years ago companies would have
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paid big money to research firms just
to get some insights from there, from
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their customers, when you could just
be listening closely, right. Yeah,
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so what? What? What about
you? Well, what you know?
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One that you didn't mention in the
interview. That does tie into using social
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media to replace your website, which
is a myth. Bad idea, is
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that the social networks are going to
protect your data right and make out it
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and decide they're just going to shut
you down and then suddenly you all your
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everything that you've posted up to that
point is gone. So, yeah,
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before it's like I'm living on rented
space. And if you're playing the home
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game. And you want to follow
up on what James just said, Google
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Cambridge and ALYTICA. Oh my gosh. Well, the one are the ones
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that I also thought was great.
is about responding to criticism. Yeah,
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yeah, right. So if you
do that, well, then it's a
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great place to do that, right, to sort of state your case,
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and she gave a couple of good
examples of that. Yeah. Well,
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it's also a way to show that
you're responsive in your receptive to feedback from
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people, but also very study,
so that maybe only four percent of your
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customers will ever even complain. Most
will go away, some of them will
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go away and complain to others.
When somebody actually complains about something, well,
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sometimes it's just going to be some
sort of trouble making troll, but
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most of the time it's not really
it's somebody who's somewhat invested in your company
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and your success and you want them
to tell you about it so that you
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can probably, you know, try
to fix the problem. Yeah, and
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which kind of get an underlying theme
across the entire thing is that social media
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is for interacting, not just for
broadcasting. Right, would be one big
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that would be one big it's a
valuable way to to interact depth. I
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also thought it was you talked a
little bit about social media not being just
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for talking to customers also, but
also for internal use, for with employees,
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also recruiting. Yes, brand management. It just kind of gives us
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transparency from the inside to the outside
world and you can attract employees by letting
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them see what kind of a couple
are and then that that brings to the
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right people. So yeah, and
I talked to companies, maybe you do
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too, where sometimes they're bigger challenge
is recruiting more employees, more of the
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right kind of employees, rather than
recruiting new customers, and this is where
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social media can be really effective.
I agree. So her one takeaway on
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this, really tuned ties into what
we've talked about, is that social media
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is critically important to strategic development of
your brand and it really shouldn't be left
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to chance. And so when she's
kind of making that point about social media
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isn't really free, she's saying you
should have talent, paid talents to help
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leverage this channel. You shouldn't just
be doing it kind of Willy Nilly here.
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And then the one thing she thought
listeners could do is to stop broadcasting
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and start engaging. So this book
had a lot of great insights in it
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into the world of social media marketing. I actually found myself correcting several bad
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assumptions that I made as I was
reading this book. So I yeah,
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so I'm guilty as charge. Yeah, well, of course I learned something
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from every book and it's like,
Oh, I'm not supposed to do oh,
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you know, or else I'll see
something like that. Why was I
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why were we not doing that?
You know? So something like that.
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So, Yep, easy read.
That a great resource for anybody, and
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social I think. So be sure
to catch the whole interview. All Right,
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oh Ga, get the sky.
That's my version of Japanese for Neil
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Schaeffer. Yes, next, next
up we've got age of influence, the
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power of influencers to elevate your brand, by Neil Shaefer, and this is
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really terrific guy to understanding the INS
and outs of influencer marketing, which I've
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not read anywhere else. So tell
us about your interview with Neil Shaffer.
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Well, Neil speaks fluent Japanese and
so he started the interview by introducing himself
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in Japanese, and I mean he
could have been saying something discharging about me
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and I would have thought it just
sounded cool. But yeah, speaks Chinese
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to write. He speaks Mandarin Chinese. He speaks Japanese fluently, even even
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better than is his Chinese. But
and he spent a lot more time and
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in Japan and I think we didn't
talk about I think he was even in
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a rock band in Japan at one
point. So if you're if you're going
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to learn a language, you may
also learned the two hardest ones that are
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out. It's all. His book
is about influencer marketing and Poe am I
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glad I read it. I had
some misperceptions about more influencer marketing, even
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though you know, know a bit
about it and it's not about getting Kim
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Kardash she need to retweet something for
you. This had an explanation of what
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influencer marketing is and how even the
smallest companies can be doing this and it
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costs a lot less than you might
think and there's some real you shouldn't treated
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as advertising. You should build a
relationship with somebody who might then go off
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and, you know, Sing your
praises or that type of thing. But
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the most interesting thing of all the
stuff in this extremely well written book was
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about why influencer marketing works so well, and we're all going to see more
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and more of this, and that
is that, you know, with the
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Internet. Well, we'll go back
a step there. You know, in
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the past, like when I was
an ad man, we were media gate
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keepers. We had captive audiences and
they had to watch our damn commercial.
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That's right, that's me. It
works, and it was all about big
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budgets and you know, anyway,
I'm sorry, I'm getting nostalgic, but
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you know, if advertising work well, I'd still be doing it. So
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Internet came along, social media and
all that type of thing, and the
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Internet and social media other things we're
not really built for advertising, right.
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So, in other words, like
newspapers, TV, radio, those that
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worked really well for advertising, right
with social media, the Internet, it's
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just it wasn't, really doesn't,
doesn't work as well. And what what's
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more, is it on like social
media, people don't really I'm speaking generalities
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here, but they don't really trust
what companies say about themselves. So you
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look at most people have a much
bigger network than businesses do on social media
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and people believe what other people say, even if they're strangers. And so
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even in social media now, where
you'll see it's a sponsored post, there's
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a certain blindness to that. That's
that's a challenge for our social media platform
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friends. But what people do follow
and our receptive to our experts or,
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you know, trend setters or something
that. So it could be a mommy
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blogger or somebody who's an expert on
car batteries or like, I might follow
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people. I do follow these people
who have built an audience and they're talking
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about motorcycles or, you know,
hunting or whatever the whatever you're whatever your
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interests are. Like my wife,
who equestrian, yes, equestrian. You
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know, if you don't want your
kids to have any inheritance, have your
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life going to massage. So,
I'm sorry, which is which is in
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contrast to celebrities. That's right.
So anyway, but she follows and she's
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not even a marketing and she doesn't
realize that she's following these experts that are
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building an audience. So you the
book talks about why that's becoming more popular
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and why it makes sense and why
a lot of influencers are interested in working
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with companies and representing their products.
Of course you have to have a good
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product, because these people are not
going to risk them sell their reputation with
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their people. But Anyway, this
whole book was very comprehensive and it shows
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you how to walk through, how
to think about this as a fair amount
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of strategy in there, and he
sneaks that in so that you're not wasting
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money trying to get Kim Kardashian or
Mark Cuban to retweet something. Height I
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thought that was the secret of going
virals just to get park yes, that's
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right, that's right, and so
but if you're doing any kind of influencer
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marketing every year ever, think you
might want to and you'd be surprised how
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small a company the the small size
of companies that are doing this effectively.
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This would be a great book to
read. Yeah, so tell him a
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little bit about the ninety nine one
ratio. I think that was a really
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interesting insight from the book. Most
of the users on the Internet, or
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Lurkers, they're not really shares,
and so there's a lot more influencers that
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you have access to for this purpose
than you might guess. So ninety percent
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of people on social media don't contribute, I think it was. They don't
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make any learning, creasy content.
Yeah, lurkers, and then nine percent
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maybe interact a bid, but only
one percent or actually creating content. Those
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motorcycle bloggers that I follow, or
the you know people with you know,
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Ustry and people taking all your wife's
money. Yes, right, they well,
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maybe it's true money. I.
Yeah, you know, I'd like
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to tell you this influencer marketing stuff
doesn't work, but I see it on
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the damn credit card statement every and
it's not just the influencers, but it's
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like she's buying all these d vds
and go into these clinics of these people
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that are building a following. And
even the content. You know, I
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don't know if I don't know how
anyone would reach her with advertising, but
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she's searching on Google for some solution
or problem she's trying to solve and sure
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enough I see enough enough about me. I was still to finish this one
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thing, but she I'll see on
the credit card statement these companies and then
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I will go search online and sure
enough they all had this robust content and
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social media clap for it's a great
job. Right. You know, it's
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fairly intuitive because when you're searching for
an answer, what you're kind of hoping
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for is a person that's already been
through it and he's a after the exact
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thing that you're trying to find and
has a whole bunch of experience in it,
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and you don't really care too much
that there were a celebrity or not.
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You're just looking at that one thing, and that's kind of his contrast
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between celebrities and influencers. So yeah, so it's really not. I mean,
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in fact, you know what in
the books about how polly play,
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people don't really trust celebrities either.
Be Right, but they'll trust. They'll
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trust somebody who, you know,
some youtuber that they've been as some youtuber.
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Yeah, and actually, the more
authentic they seem, like, less
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polished, the more and the more
I trust them. Yeah, it's crazy,
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but I think it's very practically.
I think he's giving what sixteen different
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strategies inside the book. A lot
of it revolves around having a influencer do
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some kind of guest content with you. Yes, so much of your Webin
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ours or yeah, a lot of
influencer marketing. The really sucks. Suessful
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work is about working with these influencers
to create some content with you, and
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that's why I sayss not a oneshot
deal. No, yeah, with them.
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So, yeah, it's not like
a light switch you need to turn
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on or being an ad. That's
you're really cutting yourself short if you try
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that approach. Yep. Well,
his one takeaway, was on the interview
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anyway, was to do a marketing
reset and humanize your brand, and influencer
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Markt is a great way of doing
that. And the one thing he thought
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that listeners could do is to look
at your content and just see if there's
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a way, if you can have
a influencer and contribute in some way.
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So, you know, I really
like this book. A really outlines what
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influencer marketing really is. Importantly,
he gives you all the steps that you
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need to follow in order to get
the best return on it. Even gives
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you a way to calculate Roi in
there. Yeah, very keen on read,
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was very keen on measurement and if
you only read one book about influencer
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marketing, this is definitely the one
to read. Definitely it's it owns the
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category for sure. All right.
Well, next up we've got the creator
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mindset. Ninety two rules to unlock
the secrets of Innovation, growth and sustainability
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by near Bishan, and this book's
got a simple, straightforward techniques for applying
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creativity to solve really any real problems
in business. To tell us a little
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bit about your interview with near Bush
on. Well, as we you know,
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go forth into this you know into
the world. The ability to differentiate
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a product is becoming more and more
difficult, no doubt, and people can
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copy what you're doing, they can
copy your product, and it was very
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interesting, amongst many things in the
book, about why the ability to think
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creatively and to build an organization that
is able to reward a creative thinking is
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a real and increasing competitive differentiation and
he gives lots of examples of companies where
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they thought about they were in a
parody category and they did something more creative.
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Now, spoiler alert, it does
had to do with your customers.
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So the more that you understand,
yeah, the more that you understand about
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the friction in your customers life and
what you know what they're going through,
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the more successful you're going to be. And you know if you don't do
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anything else in marketing. That's pretty
much the secret. But this book was
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very interesting. It was another book
on Creativit and haven't read a whole lot
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of them, but I this was
one where, once again, an expert
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on creativity completely demolishes the notion of
the myth of creative inspiration right a gift,
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writing, as a bolt of lightning. That yes, or the Muse
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or whatever it is. It nothing
could be further from the truth. Creativity
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is very much about following a process
and it's dealing with people, it's dealing
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with processes and an organization and really
very interesting and it's one of those books
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that you read and you think,
oh my goodness, I wasn't able to
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read the label because I'm inside the
jar. You don't think about how you
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can structure these creative approaches. And
there was another book on the show while
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back by Nicholas Webb called the innovation
mandate, and it wasn't about creativity,
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but it was about innovation and at
its heart it was a very similar notion
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of you you have to follow a
process. Yeah, it's more about perspiration
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than inspiration. Yes, yes,
it's like so many things. It's like,
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well, I don't know nothing about
sales, but James Muremind. But
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it's like you know, the secret
to success in sales. One of the
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big secrets is following a process,
and it doesn't even have to be the
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perfect process, just follow follow one, and so it's a similar sort of
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thing with the the creative mindset.
So it was it was very interesting.
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I think every CEO ought to read
that book because that the kind of thing
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that they should be doing to encourage, you know, innovation and in creativity
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within an organization. And near Bishan
also demonstrates pretty clearly that the more creative
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companies are much more profitable. Yeah, he does a great job of that
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and it's funny actually, I think. I thought that was hilarious. Actually,
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a lot of and we're out throughout
the book. But I mean,
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when it comes to the executive people, why they ought to read this book,
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I think, is that I think
the pendulum has swung way too far
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towards analytics, numbers, just graphs
and all the sterile part of that,
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and he makes a good case for
framing at why creativity is super important and
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then gives you all these practical tools
to be able to do that, to
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create creativity sort of synthetically right,
using the different strategies he's got in the
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book. So See, I'm glad
you said that, because in the book
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he does show, or helps to
reveal or remind the reader that we are
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really addicted to the analytics, the
data, and sometimes at the risk of
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any kind of insight. So he's
saying don't even trust ourselves to be creative
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anymore. We have to go find
a report somewhere to tell us yes,
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yes, so this would be a
great book for any kind of Data Geek
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who who wants to really wants their
career to take off. But it's it's
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a it's a terrific book and it
very applicable. It's going to be it's
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going to go away beyond just marketing
and sales thing. It's going to be
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very popular book. It's a new
book. Yep, agreed. And his
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one takeaway was just understand what we've
said here is that creativities and every one
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of us. It's not some kind
of magic gift that just happens for some
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people. And his one thing that
he thought listeners could do is recognized that
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selfdoubt is this monster, that's this
bane of creativity and just to recognize that
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and move away from it. But
yeah, yeah, I think if you
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read this book, for the rest
of your life you will laugh at anyone
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who gives you, tries to give
the impression that creativity is some sort of
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inspired to give for yeah, amolish
that. Yeah, so I'm I'm sure
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there's a lot of creative gurus.
They're going to be furious at this very
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practical book. So that's for all
the right reasons. Yeah, the funny
336
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thing is, you know, I
I've read a number of creativity books and
337
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I always, you know, grab
them. I think, Oh, you
338
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:53.119
know, I don't really need this
book right now, and then by the
339
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.190
time I'm doing I'm like, man, that was really good. So it's
340
00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:59.430
just going one of those things where
you yeah, as you're reading through it,
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you realize how useful it is and
yeah, like I got a headache
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00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:04.630
from all the head slapping I was
doing when I read this book. It
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00:24:04.750 --> 00:24:08.869
was like, Gosh, what how
did you not realize that sort of yea.
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Yeah, that interview, by the
way, is good. We're not
345
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doing it justice. You should.
You should go listen to the full interview.
346
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Yeah, you know, he was
a Hollywood screenwriter and a director at
347
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.140
one point in his life, so
he's a good communicator. Yeah, yeah,
348
00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:22.420
it's a great interview. All right. Well, all stuff. We
349
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:26.650
got life after the death of selling, how to thrive in the new era
350
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of sales, by Tom Sarcy and
Kara Jane more and this is a outstanding
351
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book that looks at the dynamics that
are affecting sales right now. And so
352
00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:37.970
tell us a little bit about your
your second interview actually with Tom Sarcy.
353
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Okay, so selling's dead and and
marketing to the life now. Yes,
354
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no, I please. Selling is
not dead, it's just a controversial name.
355
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But what he's talking about is there
are way too many people out there
356
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think that selling might be taking orders
or giving information to a prospect that they
357
00:24:59.109 --> 00:25:03.549
could clearly find somewhere else. And
again, another spoiler alert. People don't
358
00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:07.740
want information from a salesperson that they
can get somewhere else and in fact they
359
00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:11.660
usually already have it by the time
the salesperson comes along. He's talking.
360
00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:17.299
This is a great book, essentially
about sales. That it has enormous implications
361
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for marketing and creating marketing content and
why marketing has to play a much bigger
362
00:25:22.769 --> 00:25:30.089
role in the sales process. So
originally was going to write three books based
363
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on this one book, and this
isn't even a long book either. I
364
00:25:33.329 --> 00:25:36.720
mean they he does not waste a
word. It's almost like golden approach,
365
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.119
where a book. Yeah, and
so the book is actually, though,
366
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in three parts. So the first
part is what a CEO needs to understand
367
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about the way people are buying now, which is always funny to me because
368
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.990
the CEOS will say, Oh,
this is how I buy, and then
369
00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:55.430
I always want to say, and
you don't think your own customers are buying
370
00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:57.829
its way? Yeah, Oh,
yeah, I guess you're right, ads
371
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lapper. And so he was talking
about, you know, the why CEO's
372
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need to be involved in sales.
And if he is not involved with sales,
373
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I I'm just not sure how long
they're going to be a CEO or
374
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how successful they're going to be.
And I'm not saying that need. They
375
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needed to come up through sales and
what they need to do why they need
376
00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:19.210
the kind of leadership. They need
to providing nizations if they're going to be
377
00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:23.170
able to sell in this new era
when people can get almost all the information
378
00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:26.809
on their own, even if it's
not completely accurate, and they don't want
379
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to be marketed or sold to.
They hate that everybody listening to this probably
380
00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:33.960
does. I'm sorry, I'm getting
too excited. Then the second part of
381
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.960
the book was best for sales managers, and I don't normally have books on
382
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.319
the show about sales managers because that's
just like one pew too far remove from
383
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.960
what the marketers are generally going to
be interested in. Listening too. Listen
384
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.349
to the show, I'll of the're
lots of great books about Sanagement. But
385
00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:52.750
he's talking about what a sales manager
needs to adjust or shift in this new
386
00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:57.750
world of the the super informed buyer. And the last part of the book
387
00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:03.980
was about was for Salespeople, and
there is so, I mean it's just
388
00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:08.140
I loved this book and I knew
it was going to be a great but
389
00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:12.019
there was one part where he talks
that I want to mention. He talks
390
00:27:12.019 --> 00:27:17.690
about, you know, the buyers
more or less control the process. Okay,
391
00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:21.089
in other words, they have control. They have a lot more control
392
00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:23.009
than they used to. All right. So, in other words, as
393
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I like to say, when my
dad wanted to buy a new car,
394
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the first place he had to go
to was where was it? Listener?
395
00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.599
He had to go to the car
dealers, because that's pretty much. But
396
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:36.079
the only place you can get the
information that he needed not today, right
397
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:40.119
and and then the car dealer could
then the the salesperson could then guide my
398
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.279
dad or try to strong arm in
or, you know, influence him along
399
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.069
towards but basically the buyer had to
raise their hand pretty early on. Can
400
00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:53.109
now when my wife wanted to buy
a new car, truck, horse trailer,
401
00:27:53.470 --> 00:27:57.230
fill in the blank. She where
do you where do you think the
402
00:27:57.390 --> 00:28:06.140
last, absolute last place was she
would go to get information about the vehicle?
403
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:07.420
Where do you think, James Fir? It's all over by the time
404
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.339
you step on the lot. I
think. Well, that's a good answer.
405
00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:12.410
The last place you would go to
the dealship. there. The truth
406
00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:18.410
is the last place she goes to
is her husband. But but anyway,
407
00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:21.490
so this is the this is the
deal. Okay, so he says,
408
00:28:21.529 --> 00:28:25.410
you know, looking forward. Maybe
they are. There's sometimes predictions out there
409
00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:29.039
about how there may actually be fewer
sales people in the world, but sales
410
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.519
is not going away and I'm convinced
that anyone that's in sales, particularly B
411
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:37.039
tob sales. It just a couple
of years or you know, the the
412
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:40.200
perception of someone in sales is not
going to be so closely linked to the
413
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.309
guy wearing that nice looking plaid jacket
at the use car dealers. It's going
414
00:28:44.309 --> 00:28:48.990
to be somebody WHO's probably making even
more in sales because there's it's so much
415
00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:52.789
more difficult and it requires so many
more skills. So he said, going
416
00:28:52.950 --> 00:29:00.380
forward, companies salespeople, they have
three options. You can get super the
417
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:06.259
first ones get super efficient at transactions. So if people know exactly what they
418
00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:08.380
want to buy and they don't want
to deal with the salesperson, you know,
419
00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:14.730
think about Amazon or whatever it is
to almost completely remove the friction.
420
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.529
Okay, so now in that instance
you're probably going to be having a fight
421
00:29:18.609 --> 00:29:22.650
on price a lot more, but
you can get super efficient transactions. The
422
00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:29.440
second one is you can be he
says you can become an outstanding buying process
423
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.359
or or buyer processor, and that's
like you become really efficient at answering our
424
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:38.029
IFP's, you know, but basically
trying to wait for that, and he
425
00:29:38.069 --> 00:29:42.029
actually wrote a book called ourfps Suck. Yeah, and you know, we
426
00:29:42.150 --> 00:29:47.309
do another whole interview without why?
That's not a growth approach. You think
427
00:29:47.349 --> 00:29:52.630
about like those firms in like the
defense industry where they're you know, they
428
00:29:52.750 --> 00:29:55.700
have to do it. Yeah,
that's a that plays a big part of
429
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:57.579
it and you know, for reasons, right or wrong, but you can
430
00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:03.740
do that. But that's not really
were most of the money is. That's
431
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.089
not really where the margins are.
But the third one he talks about is
432
00:30:07.930 --> 00:30:11.609
taking back the selling process. Okay, and that's for me, it was
433
00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:17.089
the heart of the whole book,
where taking back the selling process is not
434
00:30:17.210 --> 00:30:22.640
about product comparisons. You know,
it's about going to more senior people and
435
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.079
showing how you can be more of
a consultant and helping them solve big problems.
436
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.079
And so in others you go to
a procuring personal say we don't have
437
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.000
a budget for that. You go
to more senior people and say I know
438
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.470
what I know what the problems are
that you're facing, based on our work
439
00:30:37.549 --> 00:30:41.150
with other companies like yours, and
I want to share with you what you
440
00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:45.150
should be thinking about right now.
That's that's taking control of the sales process,
441
00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:49.500
that's that's leading it, and that, for me, is life after
442
00:30:49.539 --> 00:30:53.299
the death of selling. Yeah,
incidentally, that there's a ton of great
443
00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:57.420
talk in this and a ton of
great questioning and discovery. I mean just
444
00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:03.500
just the phrase by phrase assets.
They're in this book or tremendous. So
445
00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:11.130
you know what else is worth almost
the order the books backs worth and weight
446
00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:17.890
in gold is he has these pages
of how to turn good questions in a
447
00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:21.720
great, great questions. Yeah,
that a man all right there, and
448
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:23.839
I don't know, that's probably what
four five pages right there. But holy
449
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:29.359
smokes, that is really, really
great right. It's going past gathering just
450
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.430
valuable information and showing you how to
use those same questions to gather intent and
451
00:31:33.589 --> 00:31:37.430
other dynamics that are going inside the
organization. That is pure gold. Yeah,
452
00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:41.029
it's just a master class and it's
high level modern sales and he's a
453
00:31:41.109 --> 00:31:45.230
specialist in winning big accounts and I
think he works or has worked with like
454
00:31:45.309 --> 00:31:48.940
a hundred ninety five of the fortune. Five hundreds of these are we're talking
455
00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:52.539
about bigger sales here. Okay,
so we're not. You know where the
456
00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:56.420
just so the listener will understand,
this isn't sales for everybody, but this
457
00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:00.809
is really well worth reading for,
you know reasons. Frame right of the
458
00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:04.809
whole book is that, you know, very simplistic, sales are going to
459
00:32:04.849 --> 00:32:07.569
get commoditized in the future and so
the future of selling. You know,
460
00:32:07.650 --> 00:32:12.410
the part that's not dead is for
high complexity, high value types of sales.
461
00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:15.759
Yes, and what he's trying to
say, in fact, that this
462
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:19.680
was his takeaway, was there's just
change in sales that's moving away from just
463
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:22.839
relationship selling. Right, we're where
the relationship, where the trust coming from,
464
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.559
and moving to expertise and certainty as
the source of that trust, which
465
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:32.750
means that, as the salesperson,
you need to have some domain expertise in
466
00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:36.309
order to be able to offer the
value to these CEO's, just like you
467
00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:38.509
were saying, right, you're solving
big problems for high level executives. When
468
00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:43.390
you do that you're adding value.
And he goes into that to and some
469
00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:47.099
length and really phenomenal book. There's
three questions. You remember the you know,
470
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:51.380
when you're dealing with the individual big
sales, be tob sales tend to
471
00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:52.940
have a lot of players, and
so, as you and that, the
472
00:32:53.019 --> 00:32:55.660
number is growing. Yeah, it
keeps getting worse, right. I think
473
00:32:55.700 --> 00:32:59.930
it the current numbers up like eight
point seven or something like that people involved
474
00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:02.569
in a complex sale. So that's
a lot of stakeholders to manage. But
475
00:33:02.890 --> 00:33:06.490
three really useful question, and this
is just a sampling of the number of
476
00:33:06.809 --> 00:33:09.210
great questions out of the bogus.
What does this person trust? Right?
477
00:33:09.410 --> 00:33:15.559
What does this person trust? Yeah, what rat right? And and so
478
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.640
that speaks to you know where they
getting their information? Is this person fear?
479
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.680
And what does this person need to
be persuaded of or what do they
480
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.240
need to understand? Right? Yes, and and what was interesting to me
481
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:31.190
as a marketer is that those three
questions could turn so many companies content marketing
482
00:33:31.230 --> 00:33:36.869
up to eleven. Think about it. Ties right into personas. Right,
483
00:33:36.990 --> 00:33:40.740
it's right into personas. Yes.
Anyway, really phenomenal book and, I
484
00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:45.859
would argue, one of the highest
density reads. I mean, I loved
485
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:47.539
it. It's one of those few
books that sort of takes the strategic step
486
00:33:47.539 --> 00:33:52.460
back and talks about what's really going
on between buyers and sellers. And Yeah,
487
00:33:52.660 --> 00:33:55.210
I read almost every books that come
out out on sales and this book
488
00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:59.970
ranks very, very close to the
top of that list of best you know
489
00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:01.970
sales books so well. That's how
I praise and you know who else I
490
00:34:02.049 --> 00:34:07.369
want to praise? James Mure.
You're killing me. You introduced me to
491
00:34:07.450 --> 00:34:12.480
Tom Because I there was another book
and you said Tom Searcy do you know
492
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:13.920
who he is? I said,
Oh, yeah, I know who he
493
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:15.679
is. He's a he's a big
deal. And he said, well,
494
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.199
he just wrote this book. It's
in kindle form. It's about selling during
495
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:23.239
the pandemic called selling in place.
You introduced us. I was able to
496
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:28.869
get him on the schedule quickly.
Great, great book, and then he
497
00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:30.429
said he would come back and we
could talk about this book, which was
498
00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:36.670
actually written before that, but just
fantastic. And to this we've already we
499
00:34:36.750 --> 00:34:38.059
said a bunch here, but we
were not even really doing the interview justice.
500
00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:40.179
There's a ton of great stuff in
the interview that he says. So
501
00:34:40.219 --> 00:34:44.820
I would just the listener has to
go and check out this particular interview.
502
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:46.860
It's a really good one. So
and and that is it. That that
503
00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:51.019
that this one's books are all phenomenal. As usual, I loved all four
504
00:34:51.019 --> 00:34:52.570
of them. So tell USONE.
Don't say that. It puts so much
505
00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:57.010
pressure on me. I can't wait
how you can on top it. So
506
00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:00.130
what new books do we have co
coming up on the marketing book podcast?
507
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:01.130
Well, here's what I'm going to
do to try and top it, or
508
00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:05.329
at least you know. I'm just
going to keep keep moving on. Okay,
509
00:35:05.369 --> 00:35:08.039
so the first well, the next
time we're going to talk about myths
510
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.519
of marketing. Banish the misconceptions and
become a great marketer, by Grant Lea
511
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.360
Boff and this is by the same
publisher that did myths of social media cooking
512
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:24.150
page. And the next one is
content marketing, engineered build trust and convert
513
00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:30.309
buyers with technical content by Wendy Covey. It's very much about if you are
514
00:35:30.469 --> 00:35:36.619
marketing or selling to a technical audience. And Purple Goldfish to ten ways to
515
00:35:36.699 --> 00:35:43.380
attract raving customers by Stan Phelps and
Evan Carroll. And finally, the hype
516
00:35:43.420 --> 00:35:49.500
Mich House. Social media disrupts our
elections, our economy and our health and
517
00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:54.090
how we must adapt by Sonn or
all perfect timing right before the election.
518
00:35:54.250 --> 00:35:58.969
Yes, so that's it for this
month's be to be gross showbook talked.
519
00:35:58.969 --> 00:36:02.289
To learn more about the marketing book
podcast, Visit Marketing Book podcastcom and to
520
00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:07.119
learn more about James and his excellent
book, which is one of my favorites,
521
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:15.679
the perfect close, visit pure mirror. That's spelled pure e Mui arecom
522
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:19.150
and, as I mentioned earlier,
if either of us can recommend a specific
523
00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.070
sales or marketing book or other resource
for whatever situation you find yourself in.
524
00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:25.590
Connect with us on Linkedin, where
we can chat and we'll do our best
525
00:36:25.590 --> 00:36:30.349
to get you pointed in the right
direction. And remember, keep learning,
526
00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:38.500
because these days the big learners are
the big earners. One of the things
527
00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:44.380
we've learned about podcast audience growth is
that word of mouth works. It works
528
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.449
really, really well actually. So
if you love this show, it would
529
00:36:46.449 --> 00:36:51.050
be awesome if you texted a friend
to tell them about it, and if
530
00:36:51.090 --> 00:36:53.210
you send me a text with a
screenshot of the text you sent to your
531
00:36:53.250 --> 00:36:57.969
friend, Metta, I know I'll
send you a copy of my book content
532
00:36:58.010 --> 00:37:00.599
based networking, how to instantly connect
with anyone. You want to know my
533
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:05.599
cell phone numbers. Four hundred and
seven, four nine O, three and
534
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.679
three, two eight. Happy texting.