Sept. 25, 2020

#Books 17: Life After the Death of Sales and Marketing w/ Douglas Burdett & James Muir

In this 17th episode of the #Books series, Douglas Burdett, Founder of ARTILLERY, and James Muir, author of "The Perfect Close", recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales books recently featured on The Marketing Book Podcast.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:09.390 Hello and welcome to the BDB gross show, monthly book talk. I'm Douglas 2 00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:12.550 SPREADEAD host of the marketing book podcast, where each week I published an interview 3 00:00:12.550 --> 00:00:15.830 with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me and my 4 00:00:15.910 --> 00:00:21.460 listeners keep up with the latest ideasally changing and somewhat overwhelming world of marketing and 5 00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:26.579 sales. Joining me is my friend James Mure, author of the perfect close, 6 00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:31.339 the secret to closing sales. In this monthly episode of the BDB Growth 7 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:34.780 Show, we recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales books 8 00:00:34.820 --> 00:00:39.770 recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on the 9 00:00:39.810 --> 00:00:44.409 Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads even more books than I do and he 10 00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:49.530 listens to every episode of the Marketing Book Podcast. So I'm delighted that he 11 00:00:49.850 --> 00:00:54.479 joined me and a lot of listeners both of us for book recommendations. So 12 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:59.399 if either of US can recommend any marketing your sales books or other resources for 13 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:03.960 whatever situation you find yourself in or what you'd like to learn more about, 14 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.269 please feel free to connect with us on linkedin where we can chat and we'll 15 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:11.030 do our best to get you pointed in the right direction and, Hey, 16 00:01:11.189 --> 00:01:15.150 maybe even save you some time. So, James, welcome back to the 17 00:01:15.310 --> 00:01:18.939 BEDB grows show, book talk. Thank you, Douglas. You know I 18 00:01:19.019 --> 00:01:22.019 read every book and I listened to every episode because you, my friend, 19 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:26.019 have a great for books. Oh that's all I can say. All right. 20 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:29.420 Well, in this episode of Book Talk We're going to talk about four 21 00:01:29.500 --> 00:01:33.930 recent books featured on the marketing book podcast, and those are myths of social 22 00:01:33.969 --> 00:01:38.489 media, dismissed the misconceptions and you social media effectively in business, by Michelle 23 00:01:38.569 --> 00:01:42.849 Carville and in mcgrae. Also the age of influence, the power of influencers 24 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:47.719 to elevate your brand, by Neil Schaeffer. After that we have the Creator 25 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:52.359 Mindset, Ninety two tools to unlock the secrets of Innovation, growth and sustainability 26 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:56.560 by near Bischan. And finally we have life after the death of selling. 27 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:00.319 Great title how to thrive in the new era of sales by Tom sercy and 28 00:02:00.790 --> 00:02:05.790 Kara Jane. More so, first up we've got the myths of social media. 29 00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:09.509 Dismiss the misconceptions and you social media effectively in business by Michelle Carville and 30 00:02:09.550 --> 00:02:14.949 EMMACRAE. And this book does a sort of a deep dive into the myths 31 00:02:15.229 --> 00:02:19.300 and realities of social medium for marketing and brand management. So tell us a 32 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:23.259 little bit about your your interview with Michelle. Well, it's a terrific book 33 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:28.740 and she listed twenty eight myths, but I could never cover them all. 34 00:02:28.979 --> 00:02:30.770 I haven't sit right here in front of me. So well, yeah, 35 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:34.289 no, but I mean she could have had seventy five. So it was 36 00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:37.650 what was interesting was the twenty eight that she was able to get in the 37 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:40.129 book and then of course she tries to order them in the in the right 38 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:44.250 you know order, yes, sequence, based on what she gets the most 39 00:02:44.289 --> 00:02:49.000 questions about. And so she's been doing this for you know number of years 40 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.840 and we joked that she's probably as long as she's working, she's never going 41 00:02:53.840 --> 00:03:00.110 to stop explaining the mythology of certain social media, these long held beliefs or 42 00:03:00.189 --> 00:03:07.110 just misunderstanding about social media. And for anyone who has watched what is probably 43 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.900 one of the greatest movies in the American Film Catalog, I'm talking about zoolander, 44 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:16.419 there's a scene where the the guy played by will ferreld, says I 45 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:22.259 feel like I'm taking crazy pills. What he meant by that was that he 46 00:03:22.419 --> 00:03:25.860 was losing his mind because everybody was being so ignorant. And so this board 47 00:03:27.330 --> 00:03:31.129 evoke that in me. And so the some of the let me just touch 48 00:03:31.210 --> 00:03:35.530 on a couple of them. One of them is this notion that social media 49 00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:38.729 is free. Right, right, so's one. Yeah, I think that 50 00:03:38.810 --> 00:03:44.120 was number two. But social media is free like a puppy is free. 51 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:49.159 In other words, the platform may be free to use. You know, 52 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.919 they'll probably always keep them free to because they want people engaging and joining, 53 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.349 but everything else something. So, in other words, you have to hire 54 00:03:57.590 --> 00:04:00.069 someone to manage it for you. You have to hire somebody that make sure 55 00:04:00.069 --> 00:04:03.310 it sinks up with what you're trying to do. Is A business. And 56 00:04:03.870 --> 00:04:10.099 then there are certain platforms where, if you want further exposure, you have 57 00:04:10.219 --> 00:04:13.020 to pay for it, which is you know, that works well for those 58 00:04:13.060 --> 00:04:15.699 social media platforms and and they can certainly, you know, change it, 59 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:20.259 but it's far from free. I think the only thing free is the is 60 00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:28.490 the actual platfor post. Yeah, yeah, so another one was about shirts 61 00:04:29.009 --> 00:04:31.730 say, surely social media so awesome we could just ditch the whole website and 62 00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:35.209 just go a hundred percent all in on social media, right yes, and 63 00:04:35.329 --> 00:04:41.959 stop calling me Shirley. I'm sorry, airplane movie reference bump. So yeah, 64 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.639 that was another one was a social media can replace Your Business website. 65 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.680 And you know, maybe there's a lot of smaller businesses that think that you 66 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:53.910 can do that and you shouldn't do that. And I'm going to talk about 67 00:04:53.910 --> 00:04:57.870 big businesses make kind of a similar mistake, which is, first off, 68 00:04:57.949 --> 00:05:00.430 the smaller business. They're thinking, you don't need a website. Well, 69 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:04.829 the problem is that you are building a house on rented property, right, 70 00:05:05.189 --> 00:05:10.980 and the platforms can change whatever they want to do. You agree to their 71 00:05:11.060 --> 00:05:14.420 terms of service. But the other thing that seems to surprise people, a 72 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.180 lot of people that I talked to who are, you know, civilians, 73 00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:23.930 who are not necessarily in the world of marketing, they don't always realize that, 74 00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:26.529 like, let's say facebook, for instance, if you post something in 75 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:31.290 your facebook page and let's say you have however many followers, facebook is only 76 00:05:31.329 --> 00:05:36.279 going to show that to about one percent of your followers, right. And 77 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.319 never like talk to a lot of companies, and these are not stupid people 78 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:43.000 I'm talking to. The justice isn't their world they're in and they're like, 79 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:47.040 Oh wow, I didn't realize it. If you want more exposure on facebook, 80 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.230 you have to pay them for it. You know, good, good 81 00:05:49.310 --> 00:05:53.709 for facebook. It works. It works for them. So the other thing 82 00:05:53.829 --> 00:05:58.189 that I still see with big businesses is they are putting more effort into their 83 00:05:58.230 --> 00:06:01.110 social media than to their website, which is the thing that they own. 84 00:06:01.230 --> 00:06:05.220 You know, you really social media has a place, but before I would 85 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:09.459 start going crazy on social media, I would want to make sure my company's 86 00:06:09.500 --> 00:06:14.060 website is all that it can be, to use an old army slogan, 87 00:06:14.740 --> 00:06:17.180 before I started trying to drive more people to it with, you know, 88 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:21.050 social media. And that leads me to the third one that I'll mention, 89 00:06:21.410 --> 00:06:27.689 which is social media is purely for broadcasting. And she touches on this, 90 00:06:27.930 --> 00:06:32.279 and not just that myth but several others, which is way too many marketers 91 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:38.399 and businesses think of social media as a one way communication channel. So, 92 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.759 in other words, you can kind of understand why someone would do this, 93 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:46.639 because, let's say they're buying advertising elsewhere and they look at this as another 94 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:49.269 place to, quote, get it out there for free, right, or 95 00:06:49.389 --> 00:06:57.430 pay for it to be shared or exposed. But it's not just for broadcasting 96 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:00.980 and people don't really respond well if you're just out there talking about yourself or, 97 00:07:00.980 --> 00:07:04.420 as I like to say, we all over yourself. We this, 98 00:07:04.740 --> 00:07:10.259 we that were the greatest. And so that's that's a big problem. And 99 00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:13.300 actually, you know what, that leads to another one of the topics in 100 00:07:13.339 --> 00:07:16.610 her books. She talks about how social media, probably in that very chapter 101 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:23.129 about broadcasting, social media is so effective for listening to what people are saying. 102 00:07:23.129 --> 00:07:27.009 Right, that you can get information off of social media if you're engaging 103 00:07:27.089 --> 00:07:31.720 appropriately to get information that in you know, few years ago companies would have 104 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:36.639 paid big money to research firms just to get some insights from there, from 105 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:41.519 their customers, when you could just be listening closely, right. Yeah, 106 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:45.149 so what? What? What about you? Well, what you know? 107 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:48.230 One that you didn't mention in the interview. That does tie into using social 108 00:07:48.269 --> 00:07:50.910 media to replace your website, which is a myth. Bad idea, is 109 00:07:51.110 --> 00:07:56.269 that the social networks are going to protect your data right and make out it 110 00:07:56.470 --> 00:07:59.339 and decide they're just going to shut you down and then suddenly you all your 111 00:07:59.579 --> 00:08:01.019 everything that you've posted up to that point is gone. So, yeah, 112 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:05.259 before it's like I'm living on rented space. And if you're playing the home 113 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:07.980 game. And you want to follow up on what James just said, Google 114 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:18.089 Cambridge and ALYTICA. Oh my gosh. Well, the one are the ones 115 00:08:18.129 --> 00:08:22.529 that I also thought was great. is about responding to criticism. Yeah, 116 00:08:22.930 --> 00:08:24.410 yeah, right. So if you do that, well, then it's a 117 00:08:24.490 --> 00:08:28.399 great place to do that, right, to sort of state your case, 118 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:30.800 and she gave a couple of good examples of that. Yeah. Well, 119 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.720 it's also a way to show that you're responsive in your receptive to feedback from 120 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.840 people, but also very study, so that maybe only four percent of your 121 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:45.149 customers will ever even complain. Most will go away, some of them will 122 00:08:45.549 --> 00:08:50.629 go away and complain to others. When somebody actually complains about something, well, 123 00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:54.110 sometimes it's just going to be some sort of trouble making troll, but 124 00:08:54.389 --> 00:08:58.659 most of the time it's not really it's somebody who's somewhat invested in your company 125 00:08:58.779 --> 00:09:03.139 and your success and you want them to tell you about it so that you 126 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.500 can probably, you know, try to fix the problem. Yeah, and 127 00:09:07.580 --> 00:09:11.169 which kind of get an underlying theme across the entire thing is that social media 128 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:15.129 is for interacting, not just for broadcasting. Right, would be one big 129 00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:20.210 that would be one big it's a valuable way to to interact depth. I 130 00:09:20.490 --> 00:09:24.009 also thought it was you talked a little bit about social media not being just 131 00:09:24.169 --> 00:09:26.639 for talking to customers also, but also for internal use, for with employees, 132 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:31.240 also recruiting. Yes, brand management. It just kind of gives us 133 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.039 transparency from the inside to the outside world and you can attract employees by letting 134 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.240 them see what kind of a couple are and then that that brings to the 135 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:39.870 right people. So yeah, and I talked to companies, maybe you do 136 00:09:41.029 --> 00:09:46.830 too, where sometimes they're bigger challenge is recruiting more employees, more of the 137 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:50.590 right kind of employees, rather than recruiting new customers, and this is where 138 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.340 social media can be really effective. I agree. So her one takeaway on 139 00:09:56.379 --> 00:09:58.740 this, really tuned ties into what we've talked about, is that social media 140 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:03.539 is critically important to strategic development of your brand and it really shouldn't be left 141 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:07.690 to chance. And so when she's kind of making that point about social media 142 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:11.690 isn't really free, she's saying you should have talent, paid talents to help 143 00:10:11.730 --> 00:10:15.929 leverage this channel. You shouldn't just be doing it kind of Willy Nilly here. 144 00:10:15.970 --> 00:10:18.529 And then the one thing she thought listeners could do is to stop broadcasting 145 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.279 and start engaging. So this book had a lot of great insights in it 146 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.879 into the world of social media marketing. I actually found myself correcting several bad 147 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.360 assumptions that I made as I was reading this book. So I yeah, 148 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.440 so I'm guilty as charge. Yeah, well, of course I learned something 149 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.750 from every book and it's like, Oh, I'm not supposed to do oh, 150 00:10:35.029 --> 00:10:37.429 you know, or else I'll see something like that. Why was I 151 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:41.190 why were we not doing that? You know? So something like that. 152 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:43.750 So, Yep, easy read. That a great resource for anybody, and 153 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.990 social I think. So be sure to catch the whole interview. All Right, 154 00:10:48.269 --> 00:10:50.460 oh Ga, get the sky. That's my version of Japanese for Neil 155 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:54.059 Schaeffer. Yes, next, next up we've got age of influence, the 156 00:10:54.100 --> 00:10:58.059 power of influencers to elevate your brand, by Neil Shaefer, and this is 157 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:03.220 really terrific guy to understanding the INS and outs of influencer marketing, which I've 158 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:05.889 not read anywhere else. So tell us about your interview with Neil Shaffer. 159 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:11.970 Well, Neil speaks fluent Japanese and so he started the interview by introducing himself 160 00:11:13.009 --> 00:11:16.730 in Japanese, and I mean he could have been saying something discharging about me 161 00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:20.759 and I would have thought it just sounded cool. But yeah, speaks Chinese 162 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:26.159 to write. He speaks Mandarin Chinese. He speaks Japanese fluently, even even 163 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.840 better than is his Chinese. But and he spent a lot more time and 164 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:33.470 in Japan and I think we didn't talk about I think he was even in 165 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:37.190 a rock band in Japan at one point. So if you're if you're going 166 00:11:37.230 --> 00:11:39.509 to learn a language, you may also learned the two hardest ones that are 167 00:11:39.590 --> 00:11:45.350 out. It's all. His book is about influencer marketing and Poe am I 168 00:11:45.429 --> 00:11:48.220 glad I read it. I had some misperceptions about more influencer marketing, even 169 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.940 though you know, know a bit about it and it's not about getting Kim 170 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:58.820 Kardash she need to retweet something for you. This had an explanation of what 171 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:05.090 influencer marketing is and how even the smallest companies can be doing this and it 172 00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:09.929 costs a lot less than you might think and there's some real you shouldn't treated 173 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:13.330 as advertising. You should build a relationship with somebody who might then go off 174 00:12:13.450 --> 00:12:16.360 and, you know, Sing your praises or that type of thing. But 175 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.399 the most interesting thing of all the stuff in this extremely well written book was 176 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:28.080 about why influencer marketing works so well, and we're all going to see more 177 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.549 and more of this, and that is that, you know, with the 178 00:12:31.629 --> 00:12:35.389 Internet. Well, we'll go back a step there. You know, in 179 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:37.629 the past, like when I was an ad man, we were media gate 180 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:43.149 keepers. We had captive audiences and they had to watch our damn commercial. 181 00:12:43.149 --> 00:12:46.700 That's right, that's me. It works, and it was all about big 182 00:12:46.820 --> 00:12:50.620 budgets and you know, anyway, I'm sorry, I'm getting nostalgic, but 183 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:54.700 you know, if advertising work well, I'd still be doing it. So 184 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:58.169 Internet came along, social media and all that type of thing, and the 185 00:12:58.289 --> 00:13:05.850 Internet and social media other things we're not really built for advertising, right. 186 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:07.929 So, in other words, like newspapers, TV, radio, those that 187 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:13.559 worked really well for advertising, right with social media, the Internet, it's 188 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.799 just it wasn't, really doesn't, doesn't work as well. And what what's 189 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:24.039 more, is it on like social media, people don't really I'm speaking generalities 190 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.669 here, but they don't really trust what companies say about themselves. So you 191 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:35.629 look at most people have a much bigger network than businesses do on social media 192 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:41.580 and people believe what other people say, even if they're strangers. And so 193 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.500 even in social media now, where you'll see it's a sponsored post, there's 194 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.580 a certain blindness to that. That's that's a challenge for our social media platform 195 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:56.690 friends. But what people do follow and our receptive to our experts or, 196 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:00.970 you know, trend setters or something that. So it could be a mommy 197 00:14:01.009 --> 00:14:05.289 blogger or somebody who's an expert on car batteries or like, I might follow 198 00:14:05.490 --> 00:14:09.679 people. I do follow these people who have built an audience and they're talking 199 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:16.159 about motorcycles or, you know, hunting or whatever the whatever you're whatever your 200 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.440 interests are. Like my wife, who equestrian, yes, equestrian. You 201 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.309 know, if you don't want your kids to have any inheritance, have your 202 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:30.950 life going to massage. So, I'm sorry, which is which is in 203 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:35.909 contrast to celebrities. That's right. So anyway, but she follows and she's 204 00:14:35.909 --> 00:14:39.259 not even a marketing and she doesn't realize that she's following these experts that are 205 00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:45.820 building an audience. So you the book talks about why that's becoming more popular 206 00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:48.379 and why it makes sense and why a lot of influencers are interested in working 207 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:52.169 with companies and representing their products. Of course you have to have a good 208 00:14:52.169 --> 00:14:56.210 product, because these people are not going to risk them sell their reputation with 209 00:14:56.210 --> 00:15:01.450 their people. But Anyway, this whole book was very comprehensive and it shows 210 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:05.289 you how to walk through, how to think about this as a fair amount 211 00:15:05.289 --> 00:15:09.159 of strategy in there, and he sneaks that in so that you're not wasting 212 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:13.039 money trying to get Kim Kardashian or Mark Cuban to retweet something. Height I 213 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.440 thought that was the secret of going virals just to get park yes, that's 214 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.830 right, that's right, and so but if you're doing any kind of influencer 215 00:15:22.870 --> 00:15:26.309 marketing every year ever, think you might want to and you'd be surprised how 216 00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:31.350 small a company the the small size of companies that are doing this effectively. 217 00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:33.350 This would be a great book to read. Yeah, so tell him a 218 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:37.899 little bit about the ninety nine one ratio. I think that was a really 219 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:41.500 interesting insight from the book. Most of the users on the Internet, or 220 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.059 Lurkers, they're not really shares, and so there's a lot more influencers that 221 00:15:45.139 --> 00:15:48.220 you have access to for this purpose than you might guess. So ninety percent 222 00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:50.929 of people on social media don't contribute, I think it was. They don't 223 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:54.490 make any learning, creasy content. Yeah, lurkers, and then nine percent 224 00:15:56.009 --> 00:16:00.450 maybe interact a bid, but only one percent or actually creating content. Those 225 00:16:00.649 --> 00:16:06.240 motorcycle bloggers that I follow, or the you know people with you know, 226 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.919 Ustry and people taking all your wife's money. Yes, right, they well, 227 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.000 maybe it's true money. I. Yeah, you know, I'd like 228 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.120 to tell you this influencer marketing stuff doesn't work, but I see it on 229 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.590 the damn credit card statement every and it's not just the influencers, but it's 230 00:16:19.629 --> 00:16:23.590 like she's buying all these d vds and go into these clinics of these people 231 00:16:23.669 --> 00:16:27.149 that are building a following. And even the content. You know, I 232 00:16:27.190 --> 00:16:30.870 don't know if I don't know how anyone would reach her with advertising, but 233 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:34.700 she's searching on Google for some solution or problem she's trying to solve and sure 234 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:41.779 enough I see enough enough about me. I was still to finish this one 235 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:45.179 thing, but she I'll see on the credit card statement these companies and then 236 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:49.730 I will go search online and sure enough they all had this robust content and 237 00:16:49.850 --> 00:16:53.929 social media clap for it's a great job. Right. You know, it's 238 00:16:53.970 --> 00:16:56.929 fairly intuitive because when you're searching for an answer, what you're kind of hoping 239 00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:00.409 for is a person that's already been through it and he's a after the exact 240 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.119 thing that you're trying to find and has a whole bunch of experience in it, 241 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.119 and you don't really care too much that there were a celebrity or not. 242 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:10.480 You're just looking at that one thing, and that's kind of his contrast 243 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:14.799 between celebrities and influencers. So yeah, so it's really not. I mean, 244 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.910 in fact, you know what in the books about how polly play, 245 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:22.029 people don't really trust celebrities either. Be Right, but they'll trust. They'll 246 00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:26.670 trust somebody who, you know, some youtuber that they've been as some youtuber. 247 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:30.059 Yeah, and actually, the more authentic they seem, like, less 248 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:34.740 polished, the more and the more I trust them. Yeah, it's crazy, 249 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.140 but I think it's very practically. I think he's giving what sixteen different 250 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:42.619 strategies inside the book. A lot of it revolves around having a influencer do 251 00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:47.049 some kind of guest content with you. Yes, so much of your Webin 252 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:52.009 ours or yeah, a lot of influencer marketing. The really sucks. Suessful 253 00:17:52.049 --> 00:17:56.250 work is about working with these influencers to create some content with you, and 254 00:17:56.289 --> 00:17:59.880 that's why I sayss not a oneshot deal. No, yeah, with them. 255 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:02.160 So, yeah, it's not like a light switch you need to turn 256 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.000 on or being an ad. That's you're really cutting yourself short if you try 257 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:10.039 that approach. Yep. Well, his one takeaway, was on the interview 258 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:14.470 anyway, was to do a marketing reset and humanize your brand, and influencer 259 00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:15.990 Markt is a great way of doing that. And the one thing he thought 260 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:18.630 that listeners could do is to look at your content and just see if there's 261 00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:22.950 a way, if you can have a influencer and contribute in some way. 262 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:26.109 So, you know, I really like this book. A really outlines what 263 00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:30.619 influencer marketing really is. Importantly, he gives you all the steps that you 264 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:33.019 need to follow in order to get the best return on it. Even gives 265 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:36.660 you a way to calculate Roi in there. Yeah, very keen on read, 266 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:38.819 was very keen on measurement and if you only read one book about influencer 267 00:18:38.859 --> 00:18:41.849 marketing, this is definitely the one to read. Definitely it's it owns the 268 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:45.170 category for sure. All right. Well, next up we've got the creator 269 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:51.130 mindset. Ninety two rules to unlock the secrets of Innovation, growth and sustainability 270 00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:56.359 by near Bishan, and this book's got a simple, straightforward techniques for applying 271 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.480 creativity to solve really any real problems in business. To tell us a little 272 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.160 bit about your interview with near Bush on. Well, as we you know, 273 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:10.269 go forth into this you know into the world. The ability to differentiate 274 00:19:10.309 --> 00:19:15.029 a product is becoming more and more difficult, no doubt, and people can 275 00:19:15.109 --> 00:19:19.589 copy what you're doing, they can copy your product, and it was very 276 00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:25.339 interesting, amongst many things in the book, about why the ability to think 277 00:19:25.579 --> 00:19:33.420 creatively and to build an organization that is able to reward a creative thinking is 278 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:40.569 a real and increasing competitive differentiation and he gives lots of examples of companies where 279 00:19:40.569 --> 00:19:45.569 they thought about they were in a parody category and they did something more creative. 280 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.289 Now, spoiler alert, it does had to do with your customers. 281 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:53.000 So the more that you understand, yeah, the more that you understand about 282 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.440 the friction in your customers life and what you know what they're going through, 283 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.200 the more successful you're going to be. And you know if you don't do 284 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:07.269 anything else in marketing. That's pretty much the secret. But this book was 285 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:11.190 very interesting. It was another book on Creativit and haven't read a whole lot 286 00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:15.109 of them, but I this was one where, once again, an expert 287 00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:23.420 on creativity completely demolishes the notion of the myth of creative inspiration right a gift, 288 00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:26.740 writing, as a bolt of lightning. That yes, or the Muse 289 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:33.019 or whatever it is. It nothing could be further from the truth. Creativity 290 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.809 is very much about following a process and it's dealing with people, it's dealing 291 00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:45.609 with processes and an organization and really very interesting and it's one of those books 292 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:48.809 that you read and you think, oh my goodness, I wasn't able to 293 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.079 read the label because I'm inside the jar. You don't think about how you 294 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.000 can structure these creative approaches. And there was another book on the show while 295 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:00.480 back by Nicholas Webb called the innovation mandate, and it wasn't about creativity, 296 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.990 but it was about innovation and at its heart it was a very similar notion 297 00:21:06.309 --> 00:21:11.150 of you you have to follow a process. Yeah, it's more about perspiration 298 00:21:11.269 --> 00:21:14.430 than inspiration. Yes, yes, it's like so many things. It's like, 299 00:21:14.869 --> 00:21:17.670 well, I don't know nothing about sales, but James Muremind. But 300 00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:19.859 it's like you know, the secret to success in sales. One of the 301 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:23.940 big secrets is following a process, and it doesn't even have to be the 302 00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:30.140 perfect process, just follow follow one, and so it's a similar sort of 303 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:33.849 thing with the the creative mindset. So it was it was very interesting. 304 00:21:33.890 --> 00:21:37.329 I think every CEO ought to read that book because that the kind of thing 305 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.930 that they should be doing to encourage, you know, innovation and in creativity 306 00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:48.880 within an organization. And near Bishan also demonstrates pretty clearly that the more creative 307 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.160 companies are much more profitable. Yeah, he does a great job of that 308 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.799 and it's funny actually, I think. I thought that was hilarious. Actually, 309 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.279 a lot of and we're out throughout the book. But I mean, 310 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.359 when it comes to the executive people, why they ought to read this book, 311 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.430 I think, is that I think the pendulum has swung way too far 312 00:22:03.589 --> 00:22:07.470 towards analytics, numbers, just graphs and all the sterile part of that, 313 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:12.390 and he makes a good case for framing at why creativity is super important and 314 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:15.579 then gives you all these practical tools to be able to do that, to 315 00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:21.339 create creativity sort of synthetically right, using the different strategies he's got in the 316 00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:23.740 book. So See, I'm glad you said that, because in the book 317 00:22:23.779 --> 00:22:30.730 he does show, or helps to reveal or remind the reader that we are 318 00:22:30.890 --> 00:22:36.690 really addicted to the analytics, the data, and sometimes at the risk of 319 00:22:36.769 --> 00:22:41.009 any kind of insight. So he's saying don't even trust ourselves to be creative 320 00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:42.970 anymore. We have to go find a report somewhere to tell us yes, 321 00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:47.960 yes, so this would be a great book for any kind of Data Geek 322 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.960 who who wants to really wants their career to take off. But it's it's 323 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:57.200 a it's a terrific book and it very applicable. It's going to be it's 324 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.109 going to go away beyond just marketing and sales thing. It's going to be 325 00:23:00.230 --> 00:23:04.109 very popular book. It's a new book. Yep, agreed. And his 326 00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:08.309 one takeaway was just understand what we've said here is that creativities and every one 327 00:23:08.349 --> 00:23:11.630 of us. It's not some kind of magic gift that just happens for some 328 00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:15.700 people. And his one thing that he thought listeners could do is recognized that 329 00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:21.099 selfdoubt is this monster, that's this bane of creativity and just to recognize that 330 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:22.779 and move away from it. But yeah, yeah, I think if you 331 00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:27.369 read this book, for the rest of your life you will laugh at anyone 332 00:23:27.609 --> 00:23:33.130 who gives you, tries to give the impression that creativity is some sort of 333 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:38.369 inspired to give for yeah, amolish that. Yeah, so I'm I'm sure 334 00:23:38.369 --> 00:23:42.680 there's a lot of creative gurus. They're going to be furious at this very 335 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:47.720 practical book. So that's for all the right reasons. Yeah, the funny 336 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:49.440 thing is, you know, I I've read a number of creativity books and 337 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.240 I always, you know, grab them. I think, Oh, you 338 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:53.119 know, I don't really need this book right now, and then by the 339 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.190 time I'm doing I'm like, man, that was really good. So it's 340 00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:59.430 just going one of those things where you yeah, as you're reading through it, 341 00:23:59.509 --> 00:24:02.789 you realize how useful it is and yeah, like I got a headache 342 00:24:02.869 --> 00:24:04.630 from all the head slapping I was doing when I read this book. It 343 00:24:04.750 --> 00:24:08.869 was like, Gosh, what how did you not realize that sort of yea. 344 00:24:08.990 --> 00:24:11.940 Yeah, that interview, by the way, is good. We're not 345 00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.539 doing it justice. You should. You should go listen to the full interview. 346 00:24:14.740 --> 00:24:17.579 Yeah, you know, he was a Hollywood screenwriter and a director at 347 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.140 one point in his life, so he's a good communicator. Yeah, yeah, 348 00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:22.420 it's a great interview. All right. Well, all stuff. We 349 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:26.650 got life after the death of selling, how to thrive in the new era 350 00:24:26.849 --> 00:24:30.849 of sales, by Tom Sarcy and Kara Jane more and this is a outstanding 351 00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:33.289 book that looks at the dynamics that are affecting sales right now. And so 352 00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:37.970 tell us a little bit about your your second interview actually with Tom Sarcy. 353 00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:44.119 Okay, so selling's dead and and marketing to the life now. Yes, 354 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:47.880 no, I please. Selling is not dead, it's just a controversial name. 355 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.509 But what he's talking about is there are way too many people out there 356 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:59.109 think that selling might be taking orders or giving information to a prospect that they 357 00:24:59.109 --> 00:25:03.549 could clearly find somewhere else. And again, another spoiler alert. People don't 358 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:07.740 want information from a salesperson that they can get somewhere else and in fact they 359 00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:11.660 usually already have it by the time the salesperson comes along. He's talking. 360 00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:17.299 This is a great book, essentially about sales. That it has enormous implications 361 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:22.769 for marketing and creating marketing content and why marketing has to play a much bigger 362 00:25:22.769 --> 00:25:30.089 role in the sales process. So originally was going to write three books based 363 00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:33.289 on this one book, and this isn't even a long book either. I 364 00:25:33.329 --> 00:25:36.720 mean they he does not waste a word. It's almost like golden approach, 365 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.119 where a book. Yeah, and so the book is actually, though, 366 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.759 in three parts. So the first part is what a CEO needs to understand 367 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.680 about the way people are buying now, which is always funny to me because 368 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.990 the CEOS will say, Oh, this is how I buy, and then 369 00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:55.430 I always want to say, and you don't think your own customers are buying 370 00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:57.829 its way? Yeah, Oh, yeah, I guess you're right, ads 371 00:25:57.829 --> 00:26:02.509 lapper. And so he was talking about, you know, the why CEO's 372 00:26:02.589 --> 00:26:06.019 need to be involved in sales. And if he is not involved with sales, 373 00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:07.579 I I'm just not sure how long they're going to be a CEO or 374 00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:11.220 how successful they're going to be. And I'm not saying that need. They 375 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:15.900 needed to come up through sales and what they need to do why they need 376 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:19.210 the kind of leadership. They need to providing nizations if they're going to be 377 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:23.170 able to sell in this new era when people can get almost all the information 378 00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:26.809 on their own, even if it's not completely accurate, and they don't want 379 00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:30.890 to be marketed or sold to. They hate that everybody listening to this probably 380 00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:33.960 does. I'm sorry, I'm getting too excited. Then the second part of 381 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.960 the book was best for sales managers, and I don't normally have books on 382 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.319 the show about sales managers because that's just like one pew too far remove from 383 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.960 what the marketers are generally going to be interested in. Listening too. Listen 384 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.349 to the show, I'll of the're lots of great books about Sanagement. But 385 00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:52.750 he's talking about what a sales manager needs to adjust or shift in this new 386 00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:57.750 world of the the super informed buyer. And the last part of the book 387 00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:03.980 was about was for Salespeople, and there is so, I mean it's just 388 00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:08.140 I loved this book and I knew it was going to be a great but 389 00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:12.019 there was one part where he talks that I want to mention. He talks 390 00:27:12.019 --> 00:27:17.690 about, you know, the buyers more or less control the process. Okay, 391 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:21.089 in other words, they have control. They have a lot more control 392 00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:23.009 than they used to. All right. So, in other words, as 393 00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:26.529 I like to say, when my dad wanted to buy a new car, 394 00:27:26.769 --> 00:27:29.650 the first place he had to go to was where was it? Listener? 395 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.599 He had to go to the car dealers, because that's pretty much. But 396 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:36.079 the only place you can get the information that he needed not today, right 397 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:40.119 and and then the car dealer could then the the salesperson could then guide my 398 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.279 dad or try to strong arm in or, you know, influence him along 399 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.069 towards but basically the buyer had to raise their hand pretty early on. Can 400 00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:53.109 now when my wife wanted to buy a new car, truck, horse trailer, 401 00:27:53.470 --> 00:27:57.230 fill in the blank. She where do you where do you think the 402 00:27:57.390 --> 00:28:06.140 last, absolute last place was she would go to get information about the vehicle? 403 00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:07.420 Where do you think, James Fir? It's all over by the time 404 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.339 you step on the lot. I think. Well, that's a good answer. 405 00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:12.410 The last place you would go to the dealship. there. The truth 406 00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:18.410 is the last place she goes to is her husband. But but anyway, 407 00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:21.490 so this is the this is the deal. Okay, so he says, 408 00:28:21.529 --> 00:28:25.410 you know, looking forward. Maybe they are. There's sometimes predictions out there 409 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:29.039 about how there may actually be fewer sales people in the world, but sales 410 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.519 is not going away and I'm convinced that anyone that's in sales, particularly B 411 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:37.039 tob sales. It just a couple of years or you know, the the 412 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:40.200 perception of someone in sales is not going to be so closely linked to the 413 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.309 guy wearing that nice looking plaid jacket at the use car dealers. It's going 414 00:28:44.309 --> 00:28:48.990 to be somebody WHO's probably making even more in sales because there's it's so much 415 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:52.789 more difficult and it requires so many more skills. So he said, going 416 00:28:52.950 --> 00:29:00.380 forward, companies salespeople, they have three options. You can get super the 417 00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:06.259 first ones get super efficient at transactions. So if people know exactly what they 418 00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:08.380 want to buy and they don't want to deal with the salesperson, you know, 419 00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:14.730 think about Amazon or whatever it is to almost completely remove the friction. 420 00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.529 Okay, so now in that instance you're probably going to be having a fight 421 00:29:18.609 --> 00:29:22.650 on price a lot more, but you can get super efficient transactions. The 422 00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:29.440 second one is you can be he says you can become an outstanding buying process 423 00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.359 or or buyer processor, and that's like you become really efficient at answering our 424 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:38.029 IFP's, you know, but basically trying to wait for that, and he 425 00:29:38.069 --> 00:29:42.029 actually wrote a book called ourfps Suck. Yeah, and you know, we 426 00:29:42.150 --> 00:29:47.309 do another whole interview without why? That's not a growth approach. You think 427 00:29:47.349 --> 00:29:52.630 about like those firms in like the defense industry where they're you know, they 428 00:29:52.750 --> 00:29:55.700 have to do it. Yeah, that's a that plays a big part of 429 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:57.579 it and you know, for reasons, right or wrong, but you can 430 00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:03.740 do that. But that's not really were most of the money is. That's 431 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.089 not really where the margins are. But the third one he talks about is 432 00:30:07.930 --> 00:30:11.609 taking back the selling process. Okay, and that's for me, it was 433 00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:17.089 the heart of the whole book, where taking back the selling process is not 434 00:30:17.210 --> 00:30:22.640 about product comparisons. You know, it's about going to more senior people and 435 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.079 showing how you can be more of a consultant and helping them solve big problems. 436 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.079 And so in others you go to a procuring personal say we don't have 437 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.000 a budget for that. You go to more senior people and say I know 438 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.470 what I know what the problems are that you're facing, based on our work 439 00:30:37.549 --> 00:30:41.150 with other companies like yours, and I want to share with you what you 440 00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:45.150 should be thinking about right now. That's that's taking control of the sales process, 441 00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:49.500 that's that's leading it, and that, for me, is life after 442 00:30:49.539 --> 00:30:53.299 the death of selling. Yeah, incidentally, that there's a ton of great 443 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:57.420 talk in this and a ton of great questioning and discovery. I mean just 444 00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:03.500 just the phrase by phrase assets. They're in this book or tremendous. So 445 00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:11.130 you know what else is worth almost the order the books backs worth and weight 446 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:17.890 in gold is he has these pages of how to turn good questions in a 447 00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:21.720 great, great questions. Yeah, that a man all right there, and 448 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:23.839 I don't know, that's probably what four five pages right there. But holy 449 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:29.359 smokes, that is really, really great right. It's going past gathering just 450 00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.430 valuable information and showing you how to use those same questions to gather intent and 451 00:31:33.589 --> 00:31:37.430 other dynamics that are going inside the organization. That is pure gold. Yeah, 452 00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:41.029 it's just a master class and it's high level modern sales and he's a 453 00:31:41.109 --> 00:31:45.230 specialist in winning big accounts and I think he works or has worked with like 454 00:31:45.309 --> 00:31:48.940 a hundred ninety five of the fortune. Five hundreds of these are we're talking 455 00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:52.539 about bigger sales here. Okay, so we're not. You know where the 456 00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:56.420 just so the listener will understand, this isn't sales for everybody, but this 457 00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:00.809 is really well worth reading for, you know reasons. Frame right of the 458 00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:04.809 whole book is that, you know, very simplistic, sales are going to 459 00:32:04.849 --> 00:32:07.569 get commoditized in the future and so the future of selling. You know, 460 00:32:07.650 --> 00:32:12.410 the part that's not dead is for high complexity, high value types of sales. 461 00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:15.759 Yes, and what he's trying to say, in fact, that this 462 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:19.680 was his takeaway, was there's just change in sales that's moving away from just 463 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:22.839 relationship selling. Right, we're where the relationship, where the trust coming from, 464 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.559 and moving to expertise and certainty as the source of that trust, which 465 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:32.750 means that, as the salesperson, you need to have some domain expertise in 466 00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:36.309 order to be able to offer the value to these CEO's, just like you 467 00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:38.509 were saying, right, you're solving big problems for high level executives. When 468 00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:43.390 you do that you're adding value. And he goes into that to and some 469 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:47.099 length and really phenomenal book. There's three questions. You remember the you know, 470 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:51.380 when you're dealing with the individual big sales, be tob sales tend to 471 00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:52.940 have a lot of players, and so, as you and that, the 472 00:32:53.019 --> 00:32:55.660 number is growing. Yeah, it keeps getting worse, right. I think 473 00:32:55.700 --> 00:32:59.930 it the current numbers up like eight point seven or something like that people involved 474 00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:02.569 in a complex sale. So that's a lot of stakeholders to manage. But 475 00:33:02.890 --> 00:33:06.490 three really useful question, and this is just a sampling of the number of 476 00:33:06.809 --> 00:33:09.210 great questions out of the bogus. What does this person trust? Right? 477 00:33:09.410 --> 00:33:15.559 What does this person trust? Yeah, what rat right? And and so 478 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.640 that speaks to you know where they getting their information? Is this person fear? 479 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.680 And what does this person need to be persuaded of or what do they 480 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.240 need to understand? Right? Yes, and and what was interesting to me 481 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:31.190 as a marketer is that those three questions could turn so many companies content marketing 482 00:33:31.230 --> 00:33:36.869 up to eleven. Think about it. Ties right into personas. Right, 483 00:33:36.990 --> 00:33:40.740 it's right into personas. Yes. Anyway, really phenomenal book and, I 484 00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:45.859 would argue, one of the highest density reads. I mean, I loved 485 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:47.539 it. It's one of those few books that sort of takes the strategic step 486 00:33:47.539 --> 00:33:52.460 back and talks about what's really going on between buyers and sellers. And Yeah, 487 00:33:52.660 --> 00:33:55.210 I read almost every books that come out out on sales and this book 488 00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:59.970 ranks very, very close to the top of that list of best you know 489 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:01.970 sales books so well. That's how I praise and you know who else I 490 00:34:02.049 --> 00:34:07.369 want to praise? James Mure. You're killing me. You introduced me to 491 00:34:07.450 --> 00:34:12.480 Tom Because I there was another book and you said Tom Searcy do you know 492 00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:13.920 who he is? I said, Oh, yeah, I know who he 493 00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:15.679 is. He's a he's a big deal. And he said, well, 494 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.199 he just wrote this book. It's in kindle form. It's about selling during 495 00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:23.239 the pandemic called selling in place. You introduced us. I was able to 496 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:28.869 get him on the schedule quickly. Great, great book, and then he 497 00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:30.429 said he would come back and we could talk about this book, which was 498 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:36.670 actually written before that, but just fantastic. And to this we've already we 499 00:34:36.750 --> 00:34:38.059 said a bunch here, but we were not even really doing the interview justice. 500 00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:40.179 There's a ton of great stuff in the interview that he says. So 501 00:34:40.219 --> 00:34:44.820 I would just the listener has to go and check out this particular interview. 502 00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:46.860 It's a really good one. So and and that is it. That that 503 00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:51.019 that this one's books are all phenomenal. As usual, I loved all four 504 00:34:51.019 --> 00:34:52.570 of them. So tell USONE. Don't say that. It puts so much 505 00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:57.010 pressure on me. I can't wait how you can on top it. So 506 00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:00.130 what new books do we have co coming up on the marketing book podcast? 507 00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:01.130 Well, here's what I'm going to do to try and top it, or 508 00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:05.329 at least you know. I'm just going to keep keep moving on. Okay, 509 00:35:05.369 --> 00:35:08.039 so the first well, the next time we're going to talk about myths 510 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.519 of marketing. Banish the misconceptions and become a great marketer, by Grant Lea 511 00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.360 Boff and this is by the same publisher that did myths of social media cooking 512 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:24.150 page. And the next one is content marketing, engineered build trust and convert 513 00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:30.309 buyers with technical content by Wendy Covey. It's very much about if you are 514 00:35:30.469 --> 00:35:36.619 marketing or selling to a technical audience. And Purple Goldfish to ten ways to 515 00:35:36.699 --> 00:35:43.380 attract raving customers by Stan Phelps and Evan Carroll. And finally, the hype 516 00:35:43.420 --> 00:35:49.500 Mich House. Social media disrupts our elections, our economy and our health and 517 00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:54.090 how we must adapt by Sonn or all perfect timing right before the election. 518 00:35:54.250 --> 00:35:58.969 Yes, so that's it for this month's be to be gross showbook talked. 519 00:35:58.969 --> 00:36:02.289 To learn more about the marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book podcastcom and to 520 00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:07.119 learn more about James and his excellent book, which is one of my favorites, 521 00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:15.679 the perfect close, visit pure mirror. That's spelled pure e Mui arecom 522 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:19.150 and, as I mentioned earlier, if either of us can recommend a specific 523 00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.070 sales or marketing book or other resource for whatever situation you find yourself in. 524 00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:25.590 Connect with us on Linkedin, where we can chat and we'll do our best 525 00:36:25.590 --> 00:36:30.349 to get you pointed in the right direction. And remember, keep learning, 526 00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:38.500 because these days the big learners are the big earners. One of the things 527 00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:44.380 we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works 528 00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.449 really, really well actually. So if you love this show, it would 529 00:36:46.449 --> 00:36:51.050 be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it, and if 530 00:36:51.090 --> 00:36:53.210 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your 531 00:36:53.250 --> 00:36:57.969 friend, Metta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book content 532 00:36:58.010 --> 00:37:00.599 based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone. You want to know my 533 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:05.599 cell phone numbers. Four hundred and seven, four nine O, three and 534 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.679 three, two eight. Happy texting.