#Books 15: The New Normal Rules of Sales and Marketing w/ Douglas Burdett & James Muir

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:07.870 Hello and welcome to the BDB grows show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas, 2 00:00:07.910 --> 00:00:10.750 for that, host to the marketing book podcast, where each week I published 3 00:00:10.789 --> 00:00:13.990 an interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me 4 00:00:14.189 --> 00:00:18.149 and my listeners keep up with the latest ideas in the quickly changing world of 5 00:00:18.309 --> 00:00:22.899 marketing and sales. Joining me is my friend James Mrror, author of the 6 00:00:22.980 --> 00:00:28.059 perfect clothes the secret to closing sales. In this monthly episode of the BEDB 7 00:00:28.179 --> 00:00:31.420 Growth Show we recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales books 8 00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:36.090 recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on the 9 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:40.770 Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads even more books than I do and he 10 00:00:40.929 --> 00:00:45.250 listens to every episode of the Marketing Book Podcast. So I'm delighted that he 11 00:00:45.329 --> 00:00:49.090 can join me and if either of US can recommend any marketing or sales books 12 00:00:49.090 --> 00:00:53.159 or other resources for whatever situation you find yourself in and what you like to 13 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.679 learn more about, please feel free to connect with us on linkedin where we 14 00:00:56.719 --> 00:00:59.920 can chat and we'll do our best to point you in the right direction. 15 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:03.950 James, welcome back to this month's be to be gross show book talk. 16 00:01:04.510 --> 00:01:07.670 Thank you, my friend. I read every book and I listened to every 17 00:01:07.750 --> 00:01:12.870 episode because they're awesome and in this episode of both opera. Yeah, well, 18 00:01:14.870 --> 00:01:17.590 I appreciate it. I'm glad to know who that one listener is in 19 00:01:17.709 --> 00:01:19.900 Utah. I'm the guy. I'm the guy. I download every episode. 20 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:23.500 In this episode of Book Talk We're going to talk about four recent books featured 21 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:27.859 on the marketing book podcast, which our first the non obvious guy to virtual 22 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:32.060 meetings and remote work when you just can't be there in person, by row 23 00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:38.010 hit Bargaba. Also, stories that stick. How storytelling can captivate customers, 24 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.290 influence audiences and transform your business by Kendra Hall. Also the new rules of 25 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:47.879 marketing and PR how to use content marketing, podcasting, social media, AI, 26 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:52.359 live video and news jacking to reach buyers directly, in its seventh edition 27 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.280 by David Merriman Scott, and finally, how to sell in place, closing 28 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.959 deals in the new normal, by Tom Sercy and Kara Jeane. For so 29 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:02.950 first up we've got the non obvious guide to virtual meetings and remote work when 30 00:02:02.950 --> 00:02:06.829 you just can't be there in person, by row hit Bargaba. Now, 31 00:02:06.909 --> 00:02:08.469 this book is is actually a lot more than I thought it was going to 32 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:12.870 be. Touches on a lot of different topics. Also, row hit is 33 00:02:12.909 --> 00:02:16.020 a member of the marketing book podcast six Timer Club. YEA, so tell 34 00:02:16.060 --> 00:02:20.379 us a little bit about the non obvious guy to virtual meetings and remote work 35 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:23.259 and your interview with Rohit. So there are now two members of the marketing 36 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:27.180 podcast six timers club. The first was Mark Shaffer and he's the King of 37 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:31.449 the marketing book podcast. By row hit is now in that same resulted addition, 38 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:35.729 yes, rarefied air, and part of that is because for ten years 39 00:02:35.729 --> 00:02:40.930 he wrote an updated book each year about the trends that he curates, and 40 00:02:42.289 --> 00:02:46.840 he capped off those ten years with the the best selling non obvious mega trends 41 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:52.520 and books. He's also a publisher and that's why he's been on so much 42 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.800 and I've been fortunate enough to have him as a guest. This book was 43 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.189 rushed to market. We joked. I said, Oh wow, it's like 44 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:01.870 you know it was coming, because no, no, we wrote, he 45 00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:05.110 is a rand guy, he is a trend. That's right, that's true, 46 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:07.509 that's true. Yeah, he wrote it and he had a number of 47 00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:10.189 people help contribute to it, but it was extremely timely and I had to 48 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:15.060 move them up to the very top of the of the list to get him 49 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:21.259 on the show. And the book was really Super Helpful and it talks about 50 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:24.460 sort of our present situation for a lot of people. You know, he 51 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:29.009 talks about, you know, the different types of technology should be doing, 52 00:03:29.650 --> 00:03:32.849 the distractions in your life right now if you're working virtually that a lot of 53 00:03:32.930 --> 00:03:39.330 people don't quite realize, and the issues of loneliness and isolation and how to 54 00:03:39.409 --> 00:03:44.639 collaborate with people you may not be meeting or maybe you've never met, and 55 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:51.759 how to prevent conflicts and, you know, amp up your emotional intelligence in 56 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:58.069 terms of working remotely. But all kinds of really helpful, interesting things. 57 00:03:58.150 --> 00:04:01.909 And the book is free. If you go to non obviouscom virtual you can 58 00:04:01.909 --> 00:04:08.469 download it for free. It's really you really would be not doing yourself any 59 00:04:08.469 --> 00:04:12.259 favors if you don't go download this. You can buy the printed version. 60 00:04:12.780 --> 00:04:16.139 So the book talks about all these challenges of working remotely and as I read 61 00:04:16.220 --> 00:04:18.579 through it, I could think you know every single one of them, you 62 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:21.139 know, like the things that I was talking about. You know, but 63 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:27.889 also goes into details about meetings and the the different ways that you are hamstrung 64 00:04:28.290 --> 00:04:31.889 by not working with people directly. And there's all some funny things where he 65 00:04:31.930 --> 00:04:36.930 talks about the three great enemies of working from home are the fridge, the 66 00:04:38.089 --> 00:04:44.759 bed and the TV. But true words never spoken. Yeah, he talks 67 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:47.720 about, you know, sort of the rule meetings, really, you know, 68 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.990 really important things that you should be doing, and it's a lot of 69 00:04:53.149 --> 00:04:57.670 things that people don't realize they're doing that is really hurting them, like not 70 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:01.310 being on time or not using the mute button, you know, not being 71 00:05:01.389 --> 00:05:05.750 in crummy audio, using crummy audio. Yeah, get a headset. There's 72 00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:10.500 like a twenty five dollar headset that you can get and the reason why is 73 00:05:10.579 --> 00:05:14.779 twofold one. Is that when you use a headset, people can hear you 74 00:05:14.860 --> 00:05:18.579 better and if they don't hear you, they're not going to say I didn't 75 00:05:18.620 --> 00:05:23.930 hear you. But also when you have the headset on, you're able to 76 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:28.050 hear them better. It talks about all these examples of people saying, Oh, 77 00:05:28.089 --> 00:05:30.810 can you repeat that? You know, can can you repeat that? 78 00:05:30.889 --> 00:05:33.009 All that sort of thing. Talks about, you know, dressing appropriately and 79 00:05:33.889 --> 00:05:36.839 you know things like that, and it's a good reminder that so much of 80 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:42.240 our communication, what we normally used for communication is stripped out by all this 81 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:45.839 technology. You know, you can't hear people as well, you can't see 82 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.000 him as well, you can't see their eyes as well, you can't see 83 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:53.910 their you know their body language, and basically he does a whole back though. 84 00:05:53.949 --> 00:06:00.790 He talks about why virtual meetings suck. So just accept that up front, 85 00:06:01.110 --> 00:06:04.060 okay, and any goes into, you know, some of the things 86 00:06:04.139 --> 00:06:09.220 that that you can do to make them them better. But it was really, 87 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:12.699 yeah, quite a bit packed in there. It was. There's a 88 00:06:12.699 --> 00:06:16.180 lot of content in the farthest surprise me was talking about writing and how important 89 00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:20.089 that is, you know, and being clear when you respond. I mean 90 00:06:20.089 --> 00:06:24.610 there's there's definitely a value in responding in a terse way, but when you 91 00:06:25.209 --> 00:06:29.209 respond in a nebulous way like yes, and it was a multiple choice question, 92 00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:33.040 it doesn't really help much. Yeah, yeah, he talks about the 93 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.160 secret to better communications and I know everyone wants to think of it as some 94 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.199 pill you can take, but it's to become a better writer and it doesn't 95 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:46.839 mean to become a perfect rider. Just strive to be a little bit better. 96 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:49.189 And what a couple of things you mentioned in there are like right, 97 00:06:49.629 --> 00:06:54.269 like you talk, and so many people don't do that. But if you 98 00:06:54.389 --> 00:06:58.870 just read these things out loud, it helps quite a bit. And he 99 00:06:59.029 --> 00:07:04.339 says, use just enough words. But the other one is strive for clarity. 100 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:11.620 Don't try to be clever, just try to be a clear and understand 101 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:16.009 that when you're writing you are not having the benefit of all the other ways 102 00:07:16.050 --> 00:07:19.689 that we interpret communication from other people. Yep, great part. And of 103 00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:23.410 course it wouldn't be a ro hid BARGABA book if it didn't have some trends 104 00:07:23.449 --> 00:07:27.490 in it. So he you know, after giving his rules for for Building 105 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.000 Trust remotely with teams, which is a whole another section of the book I 106 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.360 thought was very good and surprising and broad in its value, you give us 107 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.319 some trends, of course, because it wouldn't be a row hit book without 108 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:42.079 some trends. That's right. Got The amplified identity, instant knowledge, revivalism, 109 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.029 human mode and flux commerce that he needs. Someone needs to give him 110 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.189 a dollar for that term. YEA, and those are all things that he 111 00:07:48.310 --> 00:07:53.149 talked about in his previous trends. Yeah, exactly. The lines blurring between 112 00:07:53.750 --> 00:07:56.829 businesses. That's an INN business areas. That's what he means by that. 113 00:07:57.069 --> 00:08:01.699 Yeah, I would urge people not to take for granted the difference in this 114 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:07.300 virtual world versus when we were a lot of us were back in an office 115 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:09.500 and I read through that I was like, Oh Gosh, I've been doing 116 00:08:09.579 --> 00:08:13.009 that. I didn't realize that. But there's also there's a lot of differences 117 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:16.449 seem very subtle, but there's certain things that you should be doing to make 118 00:08:16.529 --> 00:08:24.250 sure that you're better understood and to also enable others to communicate more effectively with 119 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:26.319 you. Yep, his one principle, well, of course he gave us 120 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.399 a one takeaway, but he has his own principle, which is always be 121 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.879 curious, right. Yeah, and then his one takeaway, not surprising on 122 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:35.159 this one, is that if working remote, when you do it right, 123 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:39.039 can actually be very productive. And the one thing he suggested that the listeners 124 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.350 do is to get better at understanding the Automo way that you personally work. 125 00:08:43.870 --> 00:08:46.909 So I love this book. It's really it's more than a book, it's 126 00:08:46.950 --> 00:08:50.789 more like a crash course on you know, and end uth advice on how 127 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:56.899 to read tool and conduct virtual business successfully. So really great book. Yeah, 128 00:08:56.019 --> 00:09:00.539 all right. Well, next up we've got stories that stick how storytelling 129 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:05.340 can captivate customers, influence audiences and transform your business by Kinderhal and her writing 130 00:09:05.500 --> 00:09:09.450 is just absolutely captivating right. This is a very well written book and very 131 00:09:09.450 --> 00:09:13.730 engaging in the pacing is very good. I think almost anybody could benefit from 132 00:09:13.730 --> 00:09:16.809 reading this particular books. It tell us about your interview with kindred yes, 133 00:09:18.129 --> 00:09:22.769 and you can also tell, as I do, that she's a really successful 134 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:26.559 public speaker. There they tend to be good writer. Hey tend to be 135 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.360 good writers because they've practiced their talks so much and they understand pacing and they 136 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.759 have, I think, a deeper sense of the audience with the audience is 137 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:41.350 doing so anyway, it was a great book. A storytelling is one of 138 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:46.590 those topics that's enormously powerful, particularly on the subconscious level, but it's very 139 00:09:46.710 --> 00:09:50.950 misunderstood and it's also one of those terms that I think marketers need to be 140 00:09:52.110 --> 00:09:56.659 careful talking about when they're around civilians, and when I mean civilians I mean 141 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:01.379 anyone outside their marketing department, like people like James Muir, who might be 142 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:03.779 a head of sales or the CEO. Just these things are very important, 143 00:10:03.779 --> 00:10:07.730 but you really got to be careful what you're I would urge you to be 144 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:09.610 careful unless you everyone knows what you're talking about, because a lot of people 145 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:13.690 think stories are something you make up and it's a fairy tale and it's not 146 00:10:13.769 --> 00:10:16.250 at all what it is. And she goes into the science of why our 147 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:24.399 brains like stories. Stories. Information conveyed in story format is much, much 148 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:33.960 more recalled and retained by the human brain and there are different models for storytelling. 149 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.309 If you think of I think it's Joseph Campbell who has the heroes journey 150 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:43.789 that we all hear about, which I believe George Lucas followed to a tea 151 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:48.830 when he created all his star wars movies. It has seventeen steps and I 152 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:52.259 just can't remember all of them. And there's some other books out there. 153 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:56.860 Sempill find that a bit yeah, like like Donald Miller's story brand book. 154 00:10:56.899 --> 00:10:58.019 He gets it down to seven you know, do a really good job, 155 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:03.730 and she gets it down to like three things for for what she says you've 156 00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:07.690 got to have. There's eyes. Actually two things. I'm talking about where 157 00:11:07.929 --> 00:11:11.490 she says you you do have to have identifiable characters right, and she's wary 158 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:15.289 if people keep talking about the hero. He goes in on. Not everybody 159 00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:16.330 a story. The hero, it's a person that you can relate to, 160 00:11:16.490 --> 00:11:20.080 but they're not wearing a cape. And then so that you got to have 161 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:26.519 this identifiable character, you have to have an authentic emotion and a significant moment 162 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:31.200 where they realize something. And the other thing I was thinking about was her 163 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.629 storytelling framework has only three parts. That's what I was going to talk about, 164 00:11:35.629 --> 00:11:37.350 where she says, you know, if you can't remember anything else when 165 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:43.070 you're telling a story, she explains it as normal, explosion, new normal. 166 00:11:43.629 --> 00:11:46.379 So you know, there was some thing, you know, once upon 167 00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:50.820 a time, such and such was, you know, our customers were having 168 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:52.340 you know, they are this is what was going on, and then one 169 00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:58.940 day something happened and then they found this product or whatever, and then there 170 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.730 was this new things were different after that. So, you know, I'm 171 00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:07.850 a big fan of simplicity and I'm still doing everything I can to try to 172 00:12:07.889 --> 00:12:13.129 understand this, the the story format. But she then talks in the book 173 00:12:13.129 --> 00:12:18.240 about the different types of stories that pretty much every company should have, and 174 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 every company does have them, and she talks about the value story like, 175 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.120 for instance, some of them sock of course. Yeah, yeah, a 176 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.679 lot of companies don't know how to do them right. But just read this 177 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.429 book and you're like, you're about us. Page on your website could be 178 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:37.029 transformed dramatically if you put it in a story format. You can almost have 179 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:39.990 the same number of words, but you put it in a human story. 180 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.299 And one of them she talks about is the value story, and that's where 181 00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:48.019 you tell a story, mean a real thing that happened, where people then 182 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:54.299 understand what you do and the value that you bring to another company. And 183 00:12:54.940 --> 00:13:00.049 it's enormously effective for salespeople. And you know, there's some other she had 184 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:03.009 in there, like the customer story, which is why favorite, where you 185 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:07.370 tell a story, again, a true story about a customer, but you 186 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:13.080 present it in a certain order so that people see themselves in that story. 187 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:20.759 And customer stories are the most difficult to do and they're usually not done very 188 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.480 well, but when they're done correctly, like she shows in, you know, 189 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.830 a few pages in her book, You understand that and you think, 190 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:31.710 oh my goodness, why am I? Why have I not been doing that? 191 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:35.070 So it was. It's a terrific book and I continue to enjoy reading 192 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:39.789 books about presenting information in a story format. Yeah, it seems like, 193 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:43.860 yeah, each of these serations that these books on storytelling or refining it down 194 00:13:43.899 --> 00:13:48.539 and getting more of the science, and I was. I was interested in 195 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:52.899 that part that talks about how stories activate Oxytocin, which makes us feel connected. 196 00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:56.450 Yeah, and so there's a little bit of science behind that at interesting. 197 00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:58.889 She thought. The biggest barrier is is assuming you don't have a story. 198 00:14:00.250 --> 00:14:01.330 That's the problem this. You think you don't have a story, but 199 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:03.690 if you look at it in the right way you'll discover that you do. 200 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:07.929 Yeah, that's why I was saying everybody has them, and she but you 201 00:14:09.009 --> 00:14:11.039 know, she's a storytelling expert, so she hears from a lot of people 202 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:13.200 who say, well, that's great, but we just don't have those stories. 203 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.159 Is You too? It's right there, unless it's to the the immaculate 204 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.519 conceptions. Yeah, so I know where you have a story. Yeah, 205 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.590 you do, and you can. Actually it's another one of those books where 206 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:33.110 the concept is presented so well and so clearly and simply that you have to 207 00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:37.669 be carefully not smacking yourself on the forehead saying, Gosh, why we're not 208 00:14:37.750 --> 00:14:41.059 doing this before? Well, on the way she's written and all the illustrations 209 00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:43.659 and all the stories in that it demons to rate. The principles are excellence. 210 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:48.860 So I it's it's super easy read her. Her takeaway here was she 211 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:52.970 has something called bridging the gap, the concept she called bridging the gap, 212 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:56.570 and you know, her simple takeaway was, hey, no, when you 213 00:14:56.690 --> 00:14:58.809 are actually bridging the gap with your story, that tell they''ll tell you where 214 00:14:58.809 --> 00:15:01.570 you're getting it right or not. And the things you thought listeners could do 215 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:05.769 is if you got an upcoming communication of sometime you got a presentation or something 216 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:07.240 like that, just, you know, stop for a second and ask yourself 217 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.360 if there's some story that you can use to enhance your message. So, 218 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:13.639 like I said at the beginning, I think every person in business could appreciate 219 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.919 this book, whether you're in sales or marketing or counting or you name it. 220 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.789 Yeah, after it from better storytelling or even just, you know, 221 00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:26.590 dealing with your neighbors or your family. You know, present information a story 222 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:31.269 format and you'll be amazed and how much more they pay attention to you, 223 00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:35.460 which is least for my family members. That's always a challenge. MASSIBOVE grade. 224 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:39.379 All right. Well, next up we've got the new rules of marketing 225 00:15:39.460 --> 00:15:43.259 and PR how to use content marketing, podcasting, social media, AI, 226 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:46.539 live video and news jacking to reach buyers directly. This is a seventh edition 227 00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:52.529 by the Godfather of the marketing book podcast, David Meerman Scott. So tell 228 00:15:52.570 --> 00:15:54.409 us a little bit. I mean he's been on the podcast. I've seen 229 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.370 your four or five times as well. I think I've times now. Yeah, 230 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:02.090 so. So tell us about your interview with David. This is one 231 00:16:02.129 --> 00:16:03.960 of two books that's had the biggest impact on my career. The other one 232 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.039 was Ogilvie on advertising, which I read in the s and then I went 233 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:12.240 into advertising for many years and then later in my career that whole ad game 234 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:18.399 was kind of crashing and burning. If everybody's rules right, yeah, the 235 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.590 old rules of advertising still worked really well, I'd still be doing it. 236 00:16:21.710 --> 00:16:25.509 But I read his book. One of the earlier editions in real world was 237 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:29.549 going and it just had an enormous impact on me and I've read several editions 238 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:30.789 of it. He comes out with a new and every two or three years. 239 00:16:30.789 --> 00:16:37.620 It's now and about thirty languages. It's a best seller. It's used 240 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:42.860 in a lot of universities and if that's the book that I often recommend for 241 00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:45.659 people who say, look, I'm new to marketing, or what's one book 242 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:49.929 I could read to understand about modern marketing? That's the book I always recommend 243 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:53.090 and I always urge people to get the latest addition. It's about four hundred 244 00:16:53.090 --> 00:16:57.889 pages. It's a very good value. It's extremely well written. So he 245 00:16:59.169 --> 00:17:02.159 wrote the first edition in two thousand and seven, the year the iphone came 246 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.799 out, and now he's just updated it and it just gets better and better 247 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.519 and better. What's also interesting to me is what does he added and what 248 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.799 is he dropped, because every time he comes out with it he has to 249 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.710 he drops a few chapters which are no longer relevant. Maybe it's something that 250 00:17:15.990 --> 00:17:21.950 is just baked into the larger marketing in PR world. Like I think it 251 00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:25.789 a few years ago he dropped the chapter on mobile marketing because it had just 252 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:30.500 become you've been with us, yeah, you cookitous. So things like that, 253 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.460 and it's it's so we should probably tell them what's in the what's new 254 00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:37.180 in the book. So there's a chapter on AI, there's a new chapter 255 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:41.339 on voice searching, there's a ton of new story. He's in illustrations in 256 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:45.170 the book and then he we joked a little bit about on the podcast about 257 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:48.970 Google plus. Right, yes, he's robbed Google bluck. Yeah, evaporating. 258 00:17:49.009 --> 00:17:52.089 Right. So there's no need to google plus anymore. So and you 259 00:17:52.170 --> 00:17:55.769 know, there's a tie in there to something else he least he said in 260 00:17:55.769 --> 00:17:57.569 the interview, which is is that you want to kind of own your own 261 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:02.240 real estate blogging. Wise, if it's not a platform, Yo, you 262 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.759 would think the Google is about as permanent as you could get out there. 263 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.400 And yet it it evaporated. So you better on your own the Google plus. 264 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.190 Yeah, yeah, and I invested all my money and that. No, 265 00:18:12.269 --> 00:18:18.549 I'm just kidding up. Basically, what he talks about, the spirit 266 00:18:18.549 --> 00:18:21.069 of what he talks about is the old rules and the new rules. And 267 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:25.109 he's not saying the old rules don't work, they just don't work as well 268 00:18:25.390 --> 00:18:27.980 and they are increasingly less effective. And the the the big divide. All 269 00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:33.539 you need to understand is in the past, the way that you could get 270 00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:38.980 at tension was to buy attention. Back when I go out, back when 271 00:18:38.980 --> 00:18:41.369 I was an act guy, and it worked beautifully. We had captive audiences 272 00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:45.890 and they had to watch our damn commercials. Well, that's gone away and 273 00:18:47.170 --> 00:18:49.009 and actually also when you wanted. You know, when my dad wanted to 274 00:18:49.049 --> 00:18:51.930 buy a car, where did they have to go first? You had to 275 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:55.410 go to the dealership because that's where the information was. A few years ago, 276 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.720 where do you think the last place was my wife went to get information 277 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.440 when she wanted to buy a new car? Probably the dealership. That would 278 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:07.799 probably the last stop. Wrong, her husband. Oh, but the dealers 279 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:08.799 ship before that. Yeah, the poor guy trying to sell the car. 280 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.309 She waited till I was out of town and a football game and she started 281 00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.549 texting me asking me about monthly payments. I was like wow, what are 282 00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:21.150 you talking about? Where are you at? So anyway you would you people 283 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:23.859 don't really want to go to the seller to get information anymore. They maybe 284 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:26.619 until later. So and Wan. They can educate themselves elsewhere. They can 285 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:30.740 get the information elsewhere, social media, Internet, so forth, so on. 286 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:33.220 So you could buy attention, but you can't really buy at tension that 287 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:40.329 well anymore. People are actively avoiding advertising. People are paying money to avoid 288 00:19:40.369 --> 00:19:41.970 advertising. Okay, the other thing you can do is you could beg for 289 00:19:42.009 --> 00:19:45.650 attention which was going through like a media gatekeeper, you know, like an 290 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:52.170 editor or well, back back when all these back when all the messages were 291 00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:53.960 sent like through television, Radio News, you know, it was hard to 292 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.359 get your message out unless you went and begged for PR coverage and that was 293 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.960 a whole skill set. Well, now you can just go straight over their 294 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.599 head. You still still work with those folks, but the advertising supported media 295 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.230 is much, much smaller, in case anyone's noticed, the newspapers are a 296 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:12.349 lot thinner, if they're still here. And the other thing was to bug 297 00:20:12.430 --> 00:20:15.269 people, you know, one at a time. Your sales people can still 298 00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:18.910 try to bug people, but I don't know, James Muir, you you're 299 00:20:18.950 --> 00:20:21.500 in the sales world. You probably know it's a whole lot more difficult. 300 00:20:22.539 --> 00:20:26.500 Do you get through and an not very scalable yeah, yeah, exactly. 301 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:29.619 So I mean you can still still try those things. But what he's saying 302 00:20:29.779 --> 00:20:37.369 is instead you publish helpful, interesting content on the Internet and and the people 303 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:40.890 that are interested that you can help will come to you. And he's got 304 00:20:40.970 --> 00:20:45.690 about a Zillion case studies in the book showing how that's done. And yet 305 00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:51.839 still people are resistant to it. So the things that he keeps coming back 306 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.480 to. You know, the strategy never really changes. Some of the techniques 307 00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:00.880 and tactics or some of the techniques and tools change. But he explains that 308 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.150 to your point, James, you have to own your domain on a website. 309 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:11.349 In other words, don't be careful building your your business presence on social 310 00:21:11.349 --> 00:21:12.869 media, because that's going to change. There can take that away from you. 311 00:21:12.950 --> 00:21:17.990 They candlist you, they can charge you, like facebook does, to 312 00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:22.420 let more people see, let more of your fans see what's there. For 313 00:21:22.539 --> 00:21:26.980 instance, if you post something to your company page on facebook and you've got 314 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:32.579 fans, facebook's only showing it to about one percent of those people. You 315 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:36.170 want for you got to pay facebook. It works well for Facebook, so 316 00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:38.369 you need that. That's what he goes back saying. Look, it's you've 317 00:21:38.369 --> 00:21:42.569 got to have a website and you've got to publish, you know, a 318 00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:45.890 blog or whatever you want to call it, an educational section of your website 319 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:51.000 that answers your customers questions. The other thing it's really important is email marketing, 320 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.359 you know, and also he covers the water front saying everything you need 321 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:57.240 to know. But even at the end he says, look, I don't 322 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.430 do all these things. You got to figure out what's what's right for you. 323 00:22:00.910 --> 00:22:07.349 So it's still one of my favorite favorite books and it's I you know, 324 00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:08.789 there's just so many of the things we can't go into, but he 325 00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:11.109 yeah, you know. The other thing that he talks about that I think 326 00:22:11.109 --> 00:22:15.509 it's so helpful for sales as well is he talks about the use of buyer 327 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.980 personas and getting him right. It's not some demographic bullet point list of, 328 00:22:19.779 --> 00:22:25.779 you know, women eighteen to thirty four who you know like Yoga. It's 329 00:22:26.059 --> 00:22:32.930 deeply understanding the problems and challenges and latent anxieties and desires of your customer and 330 00:22:33.170 --> 00:22:36.809 then creating content that's going to be helpful for them and speaking the way they 331 00:22:36.849 --> 00:22:41.250 think. That's understanding them implicitly drives the communication in the way that you communicate 332 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:42.769 and they get that resonates with them. So that it was a big part. 333 00:22:42.930 --> 00:22:45.640 Yeah, I think it's worth mentioning that. Even though a lot of 334 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.960 stuff has changed over the years since, you know, two thousand and six 335 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:55.279 the fundamental strategies haven't changed at all. So there's some real timeless stuff in 336 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:57.829 this content here. I and he that includes Seo, which, you is 337 00:22:57.869 --> 00:23:03.029 changing like as fast as anything, and basically he's saying content is Seo, 338 00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:07.829 if you yet valuable content and you're writing to the actual problems that you're you 339 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.549 know your target market. Once you're going to have SEO, you'll get the 340 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:15.779 SEO that you're looking for, and so it's beautifully simple and very timeless, 341 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:19.140 I think, in all the I mean it's easily my favorite marketing book. 342 00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:25.220 Yeah, he talks about search engine marketing. Doesn't rely on the interruption technique, 343 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.890 and that's what buyers want. It's about getting found. I mean, 344 00:23:27.930 --> 00:23:32.930 if you are yearning for those days of simple marketing where you could shout at 345 00:23:33.009 --> 00:23:37.769 people, those days are over and maybe it takes another generation of folks to 346 00:23:37.809 --> 00:23:41.880 understand that. But basically he said this entire book is about search engine marketing. 347 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.960 Yeah, without going into all of the details, but he's saying look, 348 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.920 if you want to get search engine results, produce content. It's helpful 349 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.480 for the searcher. There you go. I wish I'd like to tell you 350 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:00.029 it's more difficult and he also said be wary of SEO x. He says 351 00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:02.109 there are some good ones out there, but there are a lot of people 352 00:24:02.150 --> 00:24:07.309 that are really taking advantage of a lot of people, a lot of Charlotton's 353 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:11.299 out there thinking that you know, you can get them search results without having 354 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:15.259 to do it the hard way, which is producing content that people want. 355 00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:18.460 Yeah, my my opinion, is the only sustainable way of doing seo. 356 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:22.380 It's just what he says, is build valuable content that people actually want, 357 00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:25.529 and then it doesn't matter how they change the ally Algorithm. Right, it's 358 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:30.049 still going to work. So his his one takeaway surprising. Marketing this way 359 00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:34.450 is fun. It's funner than grinding through tons of collateral and changing stuff. 360 00:24:34.490 --> 00:24:37.960 And then I laughed. What I heard is one thing he's his one thing 361 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:42.279 that lizards could do stop using all those stock photos. We can all tell 362 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.880 their stock photos. Stop using them. We in your company looks like that. 363 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.519 He years ago declared war on Gobbledegook. You know all that, particularly 364 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.950 the tech world, all this nonsense language that you know, state of the 365 00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.589 art, all that sort of thing. But the other thing is the stock 366 00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:02.950 photo and he says, you know, it's okay to have stock photos, 367 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:08.059 but don't have stock photos and try to convey that those are your employees or 368 00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:12.619 your customers. Yes, he was clear about that and it's really you know, 369 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:17.140 he talks about this, he wins has every time he goes to a 370 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:23.529 website and he sees a picture of Group of young, multicultural people with really 371 00:25:23.569 --> 00:25:29.369 good teeth, all pointing at a laptop and smile. Those are not your 372 00:25:29.410 --> 00:25:33.569 employees. Okay, you're not helping yourself by showing that. Plus, I 373 00:25:33.650 --> 00:25:37.640 think everybody spider sense goes off when you see those pictures. Now you're like, 374 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:38.480 Hey, look, there's a bunch of models in there, but I'm 375 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.640 pointing at a laptop right, it's just anyway. We all know better. 376 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:47.160 Anyways, classic book, Timeless Principles. Really could not recommend any higher. 377 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.869 Awesome book, Great Interview to all right. Last up we've got how to 378 00:25:51.950 --> 00:25:55.509 sell in place, closing deals in the new normal, by Tom Sercy and 379 00:25:55.549 --> 00:25:57.789 Kara Jane more. And you know Tom Sirs. He's got a one of 380 00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:00.990 his books is life after the death of selling, and it's really one of 381 00:26:02.029 --> 00:26:04.380 the more insightful books I've actually ever read on selling. It's a great book. 382 00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:07.660 I have a copy on my desk right now. I'm going to be 383 00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.779 interviewing about that coming up. Oh, you're great, great. Yeah, 384 00:26:10.819 --> 00:26:14.220 I thought maybe he had had past. It's it's expiration day, but that 385 00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:18.420 is a great, great book. So I was super excited s start. 386 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.329 That's called a teaser. Yeah, there you go. We were Mr Mure 387 00:26:21.450 --> 00:26:23.009 just there. You better tune in, tune in, you you don't want 388 00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:26.650 to have to wait a whole month and a half to get to get to 389 00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:29.890 hear it. He also wrote whale hunting. Yes, yes, actually, 390 00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:32.809 he's got he's got several. Also RFP stuck, which I couldn't agree with 391 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.359 more. And I mean he's he really lays it out straight up right and 392 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.759 anyway, I was really excited about this one and I had a certain expectation 393 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.000 about it just being about a virtual meeting, but it is so, so 394 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.029 much better than that. So tell us a little bit about your interview with 395 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.349 Tom. Well, this is the episode where I started talking about James Muir, 396 00:26:51.430 --> 00:26:55.470 and the reason why is because James Muir told me about the book and 397 00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:59.390 then James Mure introduced me to the author, Tom Swishy himself. Yeah, 398 00:26:59.869 --> 00:27:02.660 and it was a great interview. So this is another book, kind of 399 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:06.299 like a row hits book about virtual meetings, that he wrote in a hurry 400 00:27:07.099 --> 00:27:14.019 and it was absolutely terrific and he's only like a hundred pages and really, 401 00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:21.569 really good, and he basically says you've got to understand things have changed because 402 00:27:21.650 --> 00:27:26.250 your buyer has changed because of the pandemic. Okay, what? There's so 403 00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:29.970 much in it. He packed in there, but one of the big ones 404 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.559 was he says ninety days is the new clock. In other words, if 405 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:40.000 you are talking about long term results, you're going to have a much harder 406 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.960 time getting through. You've got to zero in on what's important to them within 407 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:48.670 the next ninety days. And they're also concerned about survival. So they've gone 408 00:27:48.710 --> 00:27:53.230 down a few notches on Maslow's hierarchy of needs and he talks about, you 409 00:27:53.309 --> 00:28:00.019 know, the different mindsets and he's saying that things like sales is now back 410 00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:03.740 in charge of the process, not so much the buyer, because sales is 411 00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:11.539 needed to help guide the buyer, and talks about prospects. Are Now more 412 00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:15.369 receptive to hearing from you if you can help them, key word help you, 413 00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:19.690 if you can help them solve their problems. He says reaching decision makers 414 00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:26.730 is much easier and those top level decision makers are are making big decisions right 415 00:28:26.769 --> 00:28:30.759 now. Buyers there in the new territory, just like we are right and 416 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.960 so they don't have answers. So they're looking to try to figure out those 417 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.599 things and and the problems that they have and if you have answers, they're 418 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.359 willing to listen to your answers. The other mindset, I thought that was 419 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.349 a good shift. There is he goes. You know, so many people 420 00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:45.789 are thinking, oh, when things go back to normal, when things go 421 00:28:45.869 --> 00:28:48.190 back to normal. I'm going to news flash. Right, things are never 422 00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:51.190 going to be the same. Don't count. What you need to do is 423 00:28:51.309 --> 00:28:53.630 figure out how to be selling in our new normal that we have now, 424 00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:56.859 right. So, yeah, don't count on it. Yeah, he talks 425 00:28:56.900 --> 00:29:03.220 about I mean these things were effective before the pandemic, but talks about selling 426 00:29:03.460 --> 00:29:08.779 now. It requires you to be the expert about those executives big problems. 427 00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:15.049 I mean they're real, big emotional problems, not some vendor comparison, but 428 00:29:15.410 --> 00:29:19.609 the big things, you know. And another thing, another gem in the 429 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.839 book, was he talks about when you're selling, particularly now, you must 430 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.839 follow the fee year and the failure. So, in other words, zero 431 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.319 in more quickly on what their biggest fears are. They're going to tell you, 432 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:38.549 but they'll reveal them and also find out what they're afraid of and not, 433 00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:41.509 excuse me, not afraid of, find out what failure would look like 434 00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:47.109 to them. Because you might be able to help them avoid failure. And 435 00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:49.509 he's got a very nice way of elucidating all that stuff. That chapter on 436 00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:52.940 questioning strategy is worth the price of the book all by itself. He did 437 00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:59.539 nothing more than that chapter. It was amazing restructuring the questions so that you 438 00:29:59.779 --> 00:30:03.099 get it basically. There's a there's a I don't know, it's probably two 439 00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:06.180 three pages in there where he's thinking, here's a great question, but here's 440 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.529 how to upgrade this mess. There's a great question, here's how to upgrade 441 00:30:08.569 --> 00:30:14.450 this question. And I think he calls him fulcrum based questions in there or 442 00:30:14.529 --> 00:30:18.450 historical questions, but he gets you so, so much more information and his 443 00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:22.200 premise is that in when you're sheltering in place, when you're selling in place, 444 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.400 you've got less time to do all that discovery that you used to be 445 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.680 able to do. So you got to upgrade the level of your questioning process 446 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.880 and he delivers excellently on that. Just that one thing, that one part 447 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.069 right there, is worth the whole. I mean, what a surprise here. 448 00:30:36.109 --> 00:30:37.109 I think I'm just going to learn about, you know, virtual meeting 449 00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:41.630 etiquette, which is good. That was other signing part of the book. 450 00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:44.589 Yeah, so much more to it than that. Right, this book is 451 00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:48.910 worth way more than just learning how to run a versial meeting. There was 452 00:30:48.910 --> 00:30:52.259 another funny thing in the book that I just loved where he says every deal 453 00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:57.539 has an eel. Yeah, means why that is? You must find out. 454 00:30:59.299 --> 00:31:00.579 You know, maybe maybe you're selling it, you're selling an organization. 455 00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:04.609 It's a big deal. There's multiple bought people who will influence the purchase and 456 00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:11.089 help make the decision. You must assume there's an eel in there, in 457 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:14.849 other words somebody who, maybe they're not actively against you or whatever, but 458 00:31:14.930 --> 00:31:18.319 it's going to disrupt their world. And just go ahead and assume there's an 459 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:22.119 eel in there that's going to try and kill this deal. Just go ahead 460 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.000 and find out who they are and don't stop until you find one. It's 461 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.000 good advice right be those are the guys that can thank your deal. So 462 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.480 it leaves. Obviously it is bread from the whole world of complex selling where 463 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.750 you got lots of stakeholders and just knowing that there's going to be one in 464 00:31:34.789 --> 00:31:37.269 there, somebody in there is not going to win when your proposal gets put 465 00:31:37.269 --> 00:31:41.109 into place. You need to identify who they are and understand, you know, 466 00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.309 their drivers and either neutralize them or get them on board. Yeah, 467 00:31:45.069 --> 00:31:49.019 of course, there's a great section on meeting etiquette and some some I don't 468 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:52.460 know, I wouldn't call them necessarily deadly sins, but some mistakes that people 469 00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:59.619 commonly make, MMM, like driving. One thing at a time. Control 470 00:31:59.660 --> 00:32:00.809 your noise. We heard that same thing with royot. You know, get 471 00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:04.210 a mic, for heaven's sakes, get a good to get a decent mic. 472 00:32:04.450 --> 00:32:08.170 Yeah, so his one takeaway on this was that the expertise, and 473 00:32:08.170 --> 00:32:12.170 there's a whole section on this in the book. Actually expertise is the new 474 00:32:12.289 --> 00:32:16.039 currency of relationships. They and so if you really want to be engaging, 475 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.680 then you need to be able to offer some value at the at the place 476 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.119 where where sales intersects with the domain that you're selling into. And so really 477 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.039 great, really great chapter on that actually in the book. And the one 478 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:31.470 thing he said that listeners could do is invest in your tools, invest in 479 00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:35.630 your selling in place tools, you know, whether that be a chair or 480 00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:38.630 microphone or cameras, all those things, because that's our new normal. So 481 00:32:38.990 --> 00:32:43.910 you spend a little and making it excellent so that you have a good experience 482 00:32:43.990 --> 00:32:46.420 for your for your customers. So yeah, ps, those things don't cost 483 00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:50.900 that much. They don't. Yeah, so it share my when I see 484 00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.579 somebody using there. I was, I was on a podcast with someone very 485 00:32:54.859 --> 00:33:00.170 well respected individual and this guy's just using his ear buds for his ipod to 486 00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:04.569 do the entire you know, podcast. I'm like wow, so you can 487 00:33:04.609 --> 00:33:08.210 do better. But this particular book super relevant right now and it's a whole 488 00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:12.009 lot more than just how to run a virtual meeting right. Like I said, 489 00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:15.440 this book is worth reading even if you're not even selling remotely at all, 490 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:17.920 because there's such a great contact in there. So I know always said 491 00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:21.880 this last time, but holy smokes, I really love this month's books. 492 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.279 Every one of them is excellent. So tell us what you got coming up 493 00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:28.990 next on marketing book podcast. So the next time we're on the BB growth 494 00:33:29.029 --> 00:33:32.670 show we're going to be talking about five books. The first is content marketing 495 00:33:32.789 --> 00:33:37.549 for PR how to build brand visibility, influence and trust in today's Social Age, 496 00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:45.740 by Trevor Young. Advertising for skeptics by Bob Hoffman. Content DNA, 497 00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:51.019 using consistency and congruents to be the same shape everywhere by John is spirit in 498 00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:57.329 people powered. How communities can super charge your business, brand and teams by 499 00:33:57.410 --> 00:34:02.410 John o'bacon and brand bewitchery. How to wield the story cycle system to craft 500 00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:08.489 spell binding stories for your brand by Park Howl. So that's it for this 501 00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:12.079 month's be to be gross show. Book Talk. To learn more about the 502 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.599 marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book podcastcom and to learn more about James and 503 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:22.920 his excellent book the perfect close, visit pure mirrorcom. That's spelled PUREMU. 504 00:34:23.309 --> 00:34:28.949 I arecom and, as I mentioned earlier, if either of US can recommend 505 00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:31.829 a specific sales or marketing book or the resource for whatever situation you find yourself 506 00:34:31.869 --> 00:34:35.710 in, connect with us on Linkedin, where we can chat and we'll do 507 00:34:35.789 --> 00:34:37.699 our best to get you pointed in the right direction. Save you some time. 508 00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:45.019 It's sweetfish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on 509 00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:50.420 the Internet for every job, function and industry on the planet. For the 510 00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:53.570 BDB marketing industry, this show is how we're executing on that mission. If 511 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:58.130 you know a marketing leader that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. 512 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:00.929 Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers. 513 00:35:00.969 --> 00:35:06.130 But text me at four hundred seven for and I know three thirty two 514 00:35:06.170 --> 00:35:07.960 eight. Just shoot me their name, maybe a link to their linked in 515 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:12.320 profile, and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get 516 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:13.920 them on the show. Thanks A lot,