#Books 14: Marketing and Virtual Sales in a Pandemic World w/ Douglas Burdett & James Muir

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:08.789 Hello and welcome to the B Tob Gross show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas 2 00:00:08.830 --> 00:00:11.669 for Dad, host of the marketing book podcast, where each week I publish 3 00:00:11.710 --> 00:00:14.750 an interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me 4 00:00:14.869 --> 00:00:18.629 and my listeners keep up with the latest ideas in the quickly changing world of 5 00:00:18.750 --> 00:00:22.699 marketing and sales. And joining me as my friend James Mure, author of 6 00:00:22.820 --> 00:00:29.059 the perfect clothes the secret to closing sales. In this monthly episode of the 7 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:32.380 B Tob Grows show, we recap some of the key ideas from the marketing 8 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:37.090 and salesbook recently featured on the marketing book podcast. Now I read every book 9 00:00:37.170 --> 00:00:41.329 featured on the Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads even more books than I 10 00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:46.090 do and he listens to every episode of the Marketing Book Podcast. So I'm 11 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.200 delighted that he can join me and before I introduce him, if either of 12 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:54.880 US can recommend any marketing or sales book or other resources for whatever situation you 13 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:58.240 find yourself in or that you want to learn more about, please feel free 14 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.520 to connect with us on linkedin where we can chat and we'll do our best 15 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.989 to get you pointed in the right direction. James, welcome back to this 16 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:10.269 month's be tob gross show book talk. Much thanks, Douglas. I read 17 00:01:10.349 --> 00:01:14.549 every book and I listen to every interview because you're awesome. Oh, thank 18 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:17.870 you for I did not pay him to say that. Well, in this 19 00:01:18.069 --> 00:01:21.299 episode of Book Talk We're going to talk about five recent books featured on the 20 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:25.739 marketing book podcast, which are the forever transaction. How to build a subscription 21 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:29.980 model so compelling your customers will never want to leave, by Robbie Kelmen Baxter, 22 00:01:30.659 --> 00:01:34.569 also a mind for sales, daily habits and practical strategies for sale success 23 00:01:34.689 --> 00:01:38.730 by none o them. Mark Hunter. The content fuel framework, how to 24 00:01:38.769 --> 00:01:45.209 generate onlimited story ideas by melanie diesel also inked, the ultimate guide to powerful 25 00:01:45.250 --> 00:01:49.519 closing and negotiation tactics that unlock yes and steal the deal by Jeff Blunt. 26 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.680 And finally, can you hear me, how to connect with people in a 27 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.280 virtual world, the very timely book by Nick Morgan. And I confess I'm 28 00:01:57.280 --> 00:01:59.519 excited about every one of these books. But before we start, I just 29 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:01.909 got to half ask you how they are things there in Virginia? Are things 30 00:02:01.950 --> 00:02:07.430 losing up there with Covid? Yes, there's these phases. There was phase 31 00:02:07.509 --> 00:02:09.949 two, and I know this because my kids. Yeah, they do have 32 00:02:10.069 --> 00:02:13.830 the colors. Is that? I don't know. But it apparently its face 33 00:02:13.909 --> 00:02:15.900 too. And the reason, only reason I know this is because my kids, 34 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:17.659 who are there s. They said, Dad, we want to have 35 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:22.340 a phase to party. And I said, what's phase two and they said 36 00:02:22.620 --> 00:02:25.020 the governor, and you know they they said we're in phase two. I 37 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:28.419 said, well, what does that get? You like like it's a you 38 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:30.650 know, a membershiper, wife or sometime. So what would you get with 39 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:34.889 phase two? And they said if may have of a top up to fifty 40 00:02:34.930 --> 00:02:37.770 people. So they wanted to have a party with up to fifty people and 41 00:02:37.810 --> 00:02:39.330 I thought, okay, well, what about phase three? When does that 42 00:02:39.409 --> 00:02:42.050 come? And they say, well, they're going to let us know. 43 00:02:42.169 --> 00:02:44.520 I see what happens. Then no restrictions. Well, don't you want to 44 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:46.759 wait for phase three? So anyway, we're healthy, we're happy. My 45 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.919 son's in the MT and he just came back home, but he'd been gone 46 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.680 for a few months because a big resort, these hotels that the Virginia Be 47 00:02:54.719 --> 00:03:00.150 Joan Front, we were empty because of tourism and they said look, if 48 00:03:00.189 --> 00:03:02.509 there any first responder, you know, covid nineteen first responders that want to 49 00:03:02.509 --> 00:03:06.789 come out and stay here for free. Just let us know. He was 50 00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:10.030 there that night, but also we were concerned about him bringing the virus home 51 00:03:10.069 --> 00:03:13.620 to us, and so it was a really nice thing for them to do. 52 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:16.379 And anyway, things are great. Daughter came out for spring break and 53 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:22.340 then they send an email and said it can't come back and she's just he 54 00:03:22.419 --> 00:03:24.659 was a senior and they said you can do graduation either. So she she 55 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:30.729 wrapped it up and meantime, you know, I've moved out of my office 56 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:35.969 because everyone else left and we're working remote. Now there are working remote and 57 00:03:36.530 --> 00:03:39.090 I think this was something they all secretly dreamed of. Any way, mainly 58 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:44.560 not so much working remote but getting away from me, might God jokes all 59 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:49.159 day long, preventing them from getting real work done, and so I just 60 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:52.840 said, Oh Gosh, after sixteen years, I guess I let this least 61 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:55.949 go, because the place getting there literally collecting dust, so much for the 62 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:00.710 you know, cleaning service, and just let it go. So we're all 63 00:04:00.710 --> 00:04:03.389 kind of going remote. So I'm here at my home and that's the story 64 00:04:03.469 --> 00:04:08.389 there. So what's going on with it's Costa Mure. We are almost out 65 00:04:08.430 --> 00:04:12.300 of Covid jail here in the rocky mountains. So it sounds like most everything's 66 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:15.379 going to be open up here in July timeframe, assuming, of course, 67 00:04:15.419 --> 00:04:19.060 something doesn't take a left turn. So yeah, but I got to ask 68 00:04:19.100 --> 00:04:24.100 you. I haven't received my face to invite yet. I didn't want to, 69 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:26.129 I didn't want to do a live on the you know, on the 70 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:31.170 podcast. But well, I noticed concerned about having a party at the House 71 00:04:31.250 --> 00:04:36.170 here. I just seems like I'm into statistics now. So it's like damage 72 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.920 that much stuff last time? Yeah, at the Party. Animal Your but 73 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.639 you know, the other thing I should mention is that, for folks that 74 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:46.680 haven't heard it, when this, all this started, I didn't know what 75 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.480 to do and I was hearing from a lot of listeners who were freaking out 76 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.389 and someone were losing their jobs, and I mean everyone's life was in turmoil, 77 00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:58.910 some in much greater turmoilin than mine was. Please, and I thought, 78 00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:00.389 what can I do that might be helpful? And I thought, well, 79 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:03.790 let me just get in touch with all the hundreds of authors that I've 80 00:05:03.829 --> 00:05:09.420 interviewed in the past, and so I set up this special series which was 81 00:05:09.819 --> 00:05:14.139 which is authors in quarantine getting cocktails, and so every day, I would 82 00:05:14.139 --> 00:05:16.699 probably except for Fridays when the episode the marketing podcast comes out, I would 83 00:05:16.699 --> 00:05:20.339 intervi. I would do an interview. And what happened was I sent an 84 00:05:20.420 --> 00:05:24.170 email to the over two hundred authors that have been on the show and I 85 00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:27.329 said, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this little supplemental daily show where I 86 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:30.649 can just find out what you're thinking, what you're doing, what your opinion 87 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:33.730 is, and would you be interested in coming on doing this and you know, 88 00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:39.120 what do you think? And within an hour over one hundred authors said, 89 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.680 Doug, I'm in, and then it disturbing number said and besides, 90 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:47.839 I'm already drinking at home. So that seems we ord and say that he's 91 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:53.029 a man of great restraint. But I was able to interview James Mu or 92 00:05:53.149 --> 00:05:56.310 and actually I'm going to stop it at the end of the end of June. 93 00:05:56.389 --> 00:05:58.550 Well, I am going to pause it because who knows what's ahead, 94 00:05:58.589 --> 00:06:01.670 but I need to give these authors a break and seems like things are kind 95 00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:06.860 of quieting down and I do have this business to run anyway, although I'm 96 00:06:06.899 --> 00:06:11.819 saving all this time. So there you go. It's been awesome I they're 97 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.379 very human, all of those interviews with people just talking about us. So 98 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:17.970 I thought it was great. Well, that's what alcohol do a man, 99 00:06:18.050 --> 00:06:20.930 all right. Well, first up we've got the forever transaction, how to 100 00:06:20.970 --> 00:06:25.810 build a subscription model so compelling your customers will never want to leave, by 101 00:06:25.850 --> 00:06:30.089 Robbie Coming Baxter. Awesome title, by the way. And Robbie Coming Baxter 102 00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:32.279 is the author of another book, the membership economy, which is great, 103 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:35.519 and this book is everything I can a book. It's innovative, it's practical. 104 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:40.639 I love that. Tell us what a forever transaction is and about your 105 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.560 interview with Robbie. Sure. So she does not write a bad book. 106 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:50.029 These are fantastic books. And she's an expert on subscription marketing. So I 107 00:06:50.110 --> 00:06:55.550 think years ago she'd done work for Netflix and she really and she lives out 108 00:06:55.589 --> 00:07:00.310 in Menlo Park and she really has a lot of expertise in marketing, but 109 00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:06.259 also companies that are moving to or already in a subscription model. So she 110 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:10.180 said, five years ago and she wrote the membership economy, she had to 111 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:14.459 spend a lot more time explaining what a subscription model was, you know, 112 00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:17.490 like a software as a service type thing, and you know. So obviously 113 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:20.329 certain it, parts of the industry got it, certain parts of is this 114 00:07:20.449 --> 00:07:26.050 were unfamiliar with it. And what's interesting is it now she doesn't have to 115 00:07:26.089 --> 00:07:29.689 explain as much. More people understand it. And what's really fascinating to me 116 00:07:29.930 --> 00:07:33.800 is the number of companies that you wouldn't think would be selling subscriptions who are 117 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:39.639 selling subscriptions. I'll give an example, like earthmoving equipment, in other words, 118 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:45.870 what construction companies? Who who figured out that what their customers wanted? 119 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.709 They didn't want to own this equipment, they wanted a certain amount of dirt 120 00:07:48.790 --> 00:07:51.990 moved every month. So they said, all right, we'll tell you what 121 00:07:53.509 --> 00:07:56.629 will sell you, a subscription for this many cubic tons of earth moved. 122 00:07:58.230 --> 00:08:00.819 That a while a way of thinking about it. Yeah, but I mean 123 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:05.740 if they if mining and earth moving equipment can be sold on a subscription, 124 00:08:05.420 --> 00:08:09.740 I think anything to be sold on us in description. Yeah, and so 125 00:08:09.459 --> 00:08:13.329 she talks about how there are some companies that are, you know, maybe 126 00:08:13.370 --> 00:08:18.290 they can't go hole hog into a subscription model, but it provides this recurring 127 00:08:18.370 --> 00:08:24.889 revenue and from a marketing standpoint, what's interesting to me is how much that 128 00:08:26.170 --> 00:08:30.639 subscription model is teaching the rest of the world about marketing. And I say 129 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:37.559 that because subscription marketers, companies that sell subscriptions like that. They understand that 130 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.629 signing the customer up is really the starting gun and start at the instead of 131 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:45.990 the finish line. It's the starting gun instead of the finish line. So 132 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:50.389 may seem like a subtle difference, but what happens is much more of their 133 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:54.029 energy goes into keeping the customers. Well, that's why I said that her 134 00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:58.500 books about subscription marketing. Even if you don't have a business that's in that 135 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:03.659 model yet, you can still learn so much from it about keeping your customers, 136 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:09.940 and keeping customers in almost all instances is where the real money is. 137 00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:13.210 So yeah, it's fantastic. And she says everyone comes to her and says 138 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:18.090 we want to be the Netflix of filling the blank, which is to kind 139 00:09:18.129 --> 00:09:22.889 of kind of funny. And what she said a lot of companies don't have 140 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:26.360 is any sense of had a plan for that, and she lays it all 141 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.919 out in the book and so you know I think that. And she explains 142 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.120 where all the road mines and the Land Block, the road mines, the 143 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.710 road blocks and the landlines are, and I'm not even drinking like I normally 144 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:43.509 do during authors and Quarantine, getting cocktails. In fact, I'm interviewing Shamahi 145 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:48.149 later today. She's University of Texas Crad so I have a feeling there's going 146 00:09:48.190 --> 00:09:52.830 to be some Tequila going on, but probably yeah. So, anyway, 147 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:56.700 she talks about that. Everybody wants to know about pricing and she explains a 148 00:09:56.820 --> 00:10:00.580 lot of bit about the metrics of running a subscription model and the thing that 149 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.820 she said so many companies don't understand, and again this applies to companies that 150 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:09.769 are subscription and nonsubscription, is churn. Are there big holes in the bottom 151 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:13.330 of your customer bucket? So what were you what did you think? Yeah, 152 00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:15.450 we used to call that the Leaky Cup, right where you pouring some 153 00:10:15.610 --> 00:10:18.129 on the top of the leaking out the bottom, so you never get anywhere. 154 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:20.409 But what I thought was it really great at the beginning of that book 155 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:28.080 was how thinking about things from a subscription perspective forces you to start thinking about 156 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.320 the real value that you bring, the real problem that you're solving. For 157 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.480 example, you might have a car wash, but the problem that you're really 158 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.750 solving is keeping the car clean. Yeah, exactly, and it's just enough 159 00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:41.549 of a paradigm shift that it forces you to think about what real value you're 160 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:45.629 bringing for customers, and I think there's a ton. That's why I think 161 00:10:45.629 --> 00:10:48.710 even if you're not planning on having a subscription service, I think everybody could 162 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:50.379 benefit from this book, because that's the way you should be thinking right that's 163 00:10:50.419 --> 00:10:54.019 exactly what the customers are trying to do, is solve a problem, not 164 00:10:54.139 --> 00:10:56.580 necessarily buy your product. Yes, and once again James Mure remembers the most 165 00:10:56.580 --> 00:11:01.299 important point from the book that I'd already put slipped my mind, which was 166 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:07.090 the subscription models don't work unless you understand what the real thing is that your 167 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.370 customers are buying, which is not necessarily what you're selling. So, just 168 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:16.210 like the example the James just gave, people are buying a clean car. 169 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.559 They're not buying car washes. They want a clean car. So there's a 170 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.360 car wash near me where I noticed they're selling subscriptions. Come in as much 171 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.080 as you want. So like earl and the earth moving yeah, exactly. 172 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:31.840 She blazes as so many different things in there that you would never think could 173 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.950 be applied to to a subscription and so I think it's wonderful and not only 174 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:37.509 that, really, and you already mentioned this, but she does a very 175 00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:41.629 good job of telling you how to get from point a to point it's a 176 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:46.110 very practical guide for how a company that doesn't have a recurring revenue model could 177 00:11:46.110 --> 00:11:50.700 transform itself into a company that does, and all that you need is sitting 178 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:52.500 there in that. There's quite a bit more in that, like she talks 179 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:58.019 about the dark side of loyalty overfocusing on customers at the expense of new customers. 180 00:11:58.100 --> 00:12:01.019 So there's a balance that has to take place there. But overall, 181 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:05.049 phenomenal book. Her one takeaway on this one was to use your members long 182 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:09.690 term goal as your North Star. Let that be your focus and it has 183 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:11.850 to be a hundred percent customer focused and not product focus. And the things 184 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.440 she thought that listeners could do it's just think about the promises that you make 185 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.039 to your members and the implications of that, and then how are you communicating 186 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:24.840 that that value beyond just the product, and then take a deep look at 187 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.519 retention, like you said. That's right, and she talks about the most 188 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.669 successful companies that go towards this subscription model are the ones that are sincerely focused 189 00:12:33.710 --> 00:12:37.149 on their customers, and she said you know, of course every company's Oh 190 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.070 yeah, we're focused on our customers, and she shows how that's not true 191 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.659 based on how they fail at the subscription thing. But those that are focused 192 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:48.019 usually succeed. And you know what, if there's one thing that just keeps 193 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:50.899 coming up over and over and over and all these books that we've reviewed, 194 00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:54.139 it's that principle right there right is genuinely be focused on your customers. If 195 00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:58.179 you do that, by in your halfway to the end game. Yeah, 196 00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:01.370 and if he observant find the friction in their lives. It doesn't mean sympathize 197 00:13:01.409 --> 00:13:05.210 or have compassion for them, although those are nice qualities and anyone to have, 198 00:13:05.370 --> 00:13:09.769 but just observe them, find out what what irritates them. Just doing 199 00:13:09.809 --> 00:13:13.399 a little bit of that, like ten percent of it, really to stand 200 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.399 out huge. Yeah, because so few people do it. Yeah, if 201 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.879 you have groups are if you're looking for a to achieve a predictable recurring revenue, 202 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.759 this is the book. It's a no nonsense, practical, step by 203 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.230 step guide for how to transfer your company into a creating predictable recurring revenue. 204 00:13:28.269 --> 00:13:31.230 So great book. All right. Next up we've got a mind for sales. 205 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:35.629 Daily habits and practical strategies for sales success by Mark Hunter, and I 206 00:13:35.750 --> 00:13:39.509 think you know that I love this book because it focuses on the mental game 207 00:13:39.549 --> 00:13:43.940 of sales and marketing, which does I don't think it's enough attention. So 208 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.539 it tells a little bit about your interview with Mark Hunters the Sales Center. 209 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:50.580 Well, first off, I've seen him speak live. You know, it 210 00:13:50.019 --> 00:13:54.820 keynotes at the outbound conference where you have been a speaker and where I've gotten 211 00:13:54.860 --> 00:13:58.210 to meet you. And so it's as if the whole book, I had 212 00:13:58.289 --> 00:14:03.490 the whole book being done as an audio book in my head because it was 213 00:14:03.529 --> 00:14:05.570 his voice. You can hear him? Yeah, I hear him and it's 214 00:14:05.610 --> 00:14:11.600 the he writes with the same pacing and enthusiasm. And he's also kind of 215 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.200 a wild man. I mean like he even talks in his book about how 216 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:16.960 he wanted to go into marketing and advertise. You went out to get when 217 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.720 you got out of college, but the problem was you've gotten so many speeding 218 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.190 tickets from the status police department. But he couldn't get a car because he 219 00:14:24.230 --> 00:14:28.789 couldn't afford the insurance, and so he found a sales job where they would 220 00:14:28.789 --> 00:14:31.070 give him a car and he said, I guess I'm going to go into 221 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:35.870 sales. So he did that and he later got fired from that job. 222 00:14:35.029 --> 00:14:39.139 It had another sales job, got fired from that job, almost lost his 223 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:43.299 job at the third sales job and I think his fatherin law kind of weight 224 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:46.700 in on him and said, yeah, you could. You better get your 225 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:50.620 head straight. Yeah, and now he's like this, you know, world 226 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:56.769 famous, the sales expert. He writes these fantastic books and teaches people and 227 00:14:56.809 --> 00:15:00.570 he's got an online course and all that sort of thing. So a mine 228 00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:03.769 for sales. One of the great things about the book is he talks about 229 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:09.559 sales is a lifestyle and you should never feel if you're doing it right, 230 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.000 you should feel good about it because you are in fact determining what the real 231 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.519 problems are for your customers and how you can help them. If you can 232 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:20.639 help them, don't try to sell to them. You're not going to feel 233 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.509 good, they're not going to feel good. And you know, he talks 234 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:28.950 about, well, one of the greatest movies in the history of the American 235 00:15:28.029 --> 00:15:33.110 catalog movies, which of course, is Tommy Vaub yeah, with Farlan. 236 00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:39.139 I don't know why that didn't win the Academy Award that year. I continue 237 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:43.620 to nominate it but I haven't heard back. But he talks about this one 238 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.139 scene, which of course is one of my favorite scenes, where he's in 239 00:15:46.299 --> 00:15:50.169 the restaurant and he'd been doing a terrible job of selling and then he got 240 00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:52.850 to this restaurant. He said, Hey, could you put some wings in 241 00:15:52.929 --> 00:15:56.450 the Friar and she said we don't turn on until night and he talks her 242 00:15:56.529 --> 00:16:02.809 into turning it on and his colleague David Spade and she's finally relents. This 243 00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:04.279 is okay, I'll go turn it on. Well, we'll cook something up 244 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:10.320 for you, cheese. So his friend David Spade says why? Why can't 245 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.120 don't you do that when you're selling? And he said, well, it's 246 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.679 no big deal because I knew that we had that Meat Lover's pizza in the 247 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.669 trunk. So whether or not she did it, I knew we were still 248 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:22.830 going to be okay. And so then one of the ideas in sales is 249 00:16:23.269 --> 00:16:27.750 you've got you got to think that you've got that meat lovers pizza in the 250 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:33.899 trunk and you know, be confident, and confidence is contagious and you what 251 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.340 what did you think of the book? Yeah, it's phenomenal and of course 252 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:41.419 that concept is right. Customers can smell desperation like a dog smells free right. 253 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:44.379 So, commission breath the yes, that's it. But you know, 254 00:16:44.419 --> 00:16:47.289 I think the wisdom of the ages is just that we become what we think 255 00:16:47.330 --> 00:16:52.169 about, and that makes your mind both a beautiful servant and potentially a dangerous 256 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:55.649 master. And so, and I would actually say this as far as careers 257 00:16:55.730 --> 00:16:59.049 go, that's probably even more true in sales than it is for other careers. 258 00:16:59.570 --> 00:17:03.279 And so this whole book kind of touches on a area that didn't get 259 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:07.920 a lot of coverage in the sales you know, literature out there is focusing 260 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.680 on your your mindset when you're going into it, and he's got a lot 261 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:17.150 of great concepts in here that that are not touching other places. He talks 262 00:17:17.150 --> 00:17:21.109 about quit thinking that marketing will get your leads, and I was kind of 263 00:17:21.150 --> 00:17:23.150 curious to what your take was on that because it was kind of controversial. 264 00:17:23.549 --> 00:17:26.670 You know. Yeah, I was thinking, what is the marketer guy? 265 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:29.269 I think when the when the book says, Hey, stop thinking that market 266 00:17:29.390 --> 00:17:33.019 is going to get your leads. Here's here's why I think he puts it 267 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:40.859 that way there was marketing can and will be generating some leads, but he's 268 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:48.049 saying that that's like gravy and it helps with your only generation efforts. But 269 00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:52.769 he's saying it's the classic thing where Anthony and Areno and JEB Blun are always 270 00:17:52.769 --> 00:17:56.730 talking about are you arrain barrel waiting for the water to come in, or 271 00:17:56.769 --> 00:18:00.559 are you arrainmaker, going out and making things happen? And he's saying you 272 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.240 should not. I think it's more his way of saying don't sit around waiting 273 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.880 for leads to come to you. That's exactly it. And I work a 274 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.079 lot of different companies and mostly complex be to be, you know, forced 275 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.470 to five hundred style companies, and I would say that marketing has only been 276 00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:18.869 able to generate maybe fifty to sixty percent of the leads that are actually necessary 277 00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:22.990 to get an individual sales professional to their goal. Right. That doesn't mean 278 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.140 our marketing goal is fifty sixty percent. The goals a hundred percent, but 279 00:18:26.259 --> 00:18:30.019 it never gets there. And and so what that means is the salesperson has 280 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.740 to be much more accountable for lead generation and I think that he covered that 281 00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:38.779 well in the book. Well and also fast growth companies. I'm referring to 282 00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:42.329 the book from possible to inevitable by Aaron Ross and Jason Umkey. But they 283 00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:47.009 talked about how there's three kinds of leads, seeds, spears and nets. 284 00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:49.089 You know, it's those that are marketing generated, the nets. There the 285 00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:52.450 seas through your own network, and then there's the spears. Those the ones 286 00:18:52.490 --> 00:18:56.799 you were actively prospecting after, the ones that are probably happy not looking at 287 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.440 making a change. So, you know, I think that's he's he may 288 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.440 also be. It's like we're trying to read the tea leaves here from Mark 289 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.480 Hunterry. We could probably get him on the line here and talk. But 290 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.990 like, you need to be going after certain accounts and you need to be 291 00:19:11.109 --> 00:19:15.589 working other with don't just wait for only marketing generated leads. Not that marking 292 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:18.549 should be generating leads. That's this point. And most of the cells guys 293 00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:22.869 that I've ever worked with that do that are just waiting for marketing to bring 294 00:19:22.910 --> 00:19:25.220 a hundred percent of their leads. They all fail. Right, you gotta 295 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.140 have some of your on skin in the game. There was another thing in 296 00:19:27.259 --> 00:19:32.099 the book where he talked he was working with this one company and there were 297 00:19:32.180 --> 00:19:37.660 these two guys, younger guys, who were like the top two salespeople. 298 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:41.609 And finally they told Mark you've got to figure out what these guys are doing. 299 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:45.329 I mean they must have thought they were doing something illegal, illegal. 300 00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:51.410 They were hanging out with marketing all the time and they were getting what they 301 00:19:51.410 --> 00:19:53.640 needed from marketing, but they're also helping understanding what marketing did and they were 302 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:57.119 using things they learned from marketing. It's just like that. What a dangerous 303 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:02.400 Combo. We actually work together right. She's well. One of the constant 304 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.680 I think, in this book that I think could benefit both marketers and salespeople 305 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:08.470 is the importance of knowing about your customers, customer. Oh yes, I 306 00:20:08.589 --> 00:20:12.670 was just going to mention that. Yeah, he talked about a manufacturing CEO, 307 00:20:12.789 --> 00:20:18.109 another client of his, and they make all this all these widgets or 308 00:20:18.109 --> 00:20:22.500 whatever the products were, and he asked him who buys this from you? 309 00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:29.059 What are they using it for? And he had no idea. You have 310 00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:32.980 got to understand if you're, you know, be to be obviously you've got 311 00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:36.769 to understand your customers, customer. You will make a lot more sales. 312 00:20:36.809 --> 00:20:40.569 That way you'll be able to help your your customer more. It's just I 313 00:20:40.690 --> 00:20:42.369 was. I was it was another one of those things where I was sort 314 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:48.569 of astounded that the CE of a manufacturing company didn't know anything about how his 315 00:20:48.690 --> 00:20:52.039 products were being used and he may have had a hunch or who's who is 316 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.400 even buying them. Well, this May know I'm probably going to be really 317 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.640 unpopular to this comment, but I can't even tell you the never companies I've 318 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.279 gone into where the marketing team doesn't really know who. We saw two and 319 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:06.109 so, since they don't know what we really do, they end up creating 320 00:21:06.109 --> 00:21:10.829 this really bland copy in everything that they do. That apply to any company. 321 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:14.470 It's really awful. Right. So I don't know that's the the most 322 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:17.589 common thing, but I've seen that phenomenon. And the thing about I think 323 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:19.539 he's kind of planning out here, is that knowing your customers customer gives you 324 00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:22.660 a chance to create insight. It's that was just your credibility. And then 325 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:26.099 one of his tips was to, you know, send one of your target 326 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:30.140 accounts an article about one of their customers to show them that you're paying attention 327 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:32.970 to their customers. Right. So a really great tip there. Nobody does 328 00:21:33.049 --> 00:21:34.890 that. Now I have a suggestion for that. Company who will remain nameless? 329 00:21:36.289 --> 00:21:41.329 WHO's marketing people aren't doing anything that's helpful because they don't even know who 330 00:21:41.329 --> 00:21:45.609 they're selling to. Don't fire your marketing people, but take all the rest 331 00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:52.079 of the marketing budget split in half, spend sent half to James Muiror Harman 332 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.880 Utah and one half to Douglesper dead in Norfolk, Virginia. You'll get the 333 00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:00.000 same result, but you'll feel better about giving the money to us. But 334 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.990 you know, there's one more thing we got to stay on here. is 335 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:06.190 a he talks about there's no stupid customers. Oh, yes, in that 336 00:22:06.309 --> 00:22:08.269 book, right, and that what he did say in the book. But 337 00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:12.509 there's our famous ogilvie quote, that is, Hey, the customers not a 338 00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:15.819 moron. She's your wife. Yes, right, and I thought when he 339 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:18.380 said that I in that book at that. Oh, that's exactly the thing 340 00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:22.940 is in so many people if you have disdain or disrespect for your customer, 341 00:22:23.059 --> 00:22:27.019 and you know nobody has a perfect set of customers. But yeah, it's 342 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:30.730 I think it's an important insight that he's providing there. Yeah, and but 343 00:22:30.849 --> 00:22:37.369 he's really hard on that, saying if you talk about having a stupid customer, 344 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:41.529 that's a you problem, right. Why? Why is it that you 345 00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:45.599 think they're stupid and you go your reverse engineer that it's not the customers problem. 346 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.200 It's not they're they're not bad or stupid for the way they're acting. 347 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:55.160 Your Im you may not be doing a good job of understanding why they think 348 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.109 the way they do. And I thought that was that was just fantastic. 349 00:22:59.470 --> 00:23:02.509 That's it's you. Yeah, it's it's the concept in the bonds that set 350 00:23:02.549 --> 00:23:06.029 us free, but applied to selling and marketing. So his one take away 351 00:23:06.029 --> 00:23:07.430 here is what you said at the very beginning, which is that sales not 352 00:23:07.549 --> 00:23:11.309 a job, it's a lifestyle. Perfect advice, I think, for anybody 353 00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:15.180 thinks considering being in sales. And the one thing he said that listeners could 354 00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:18.900 do is to look at your customers and the outcomes that you help them achieve. 355 00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:21.779 Remember this. Books about mindset, right, and that's going to help 356 00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:25.380 your mindset because it'll remind you of the stuff that you've done that will help 357 00:23:25.460 --> 00:23:29.890 them but also help you articulate the value that you bring to clients. So 358 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:32.650 a good advice. They're you know are disclose. Your mark and I are 359 00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:34.890 friends, but mark has written a really genius book here. I think that 360 00:23:36.009 --> 00:23:38.450 cuts to the core of what makes the top one percent successful. And actually, 361 00:23:38.769 --> 00:23:42.559 didn't you endorse it? I did just right and I read the endorsement 362 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.759 during the interview. That's right, you're too kind. You're too kind. 363 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:48.680 But then I said, I know James Listen to this show. So, 364 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:53.880 James, you later, except my ears were burning right there. But yeah, 365 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.910 the stills first. Is the most important thing and what makes them them 366 00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:00.549 important, Riley, if you drill down one more layer on the onion is 367 00:24:00.750 --> 00:24:04.190 it's the their mindset. So I think in ten years it's going to be 368 00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:08.589 even more so, because the era of needing, you know, order takers 369 00:24:08.789 --> 00:24:12.500 is go starting to go round even more so, and people who are in 370 00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:18.740 sales are going to be people who are making even higher incomes. Yeah, 371 00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:21.980 if you can't add value in some way, some insight, some you know 372 00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:26.289 thing that benefits the customer, that makes the selling process itself inherently valuable, 373 00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:30.289 then your job is going to be there are some already some existing websites that 374 00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:37.329 can create very good, complex solutions to complex problems that don't even need to 375 00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:40.599 have a salesperson. Involves. You've got to add some value or you're going 376 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:42.480 to get all that's going to get automated over the next decade. Yeah, 377 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:45.880 so all right. Well, next up we've got the content fuel framework, 378 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.400 how to generate unlimited story ideas, by Melanie diesel. And you know, 379 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:53.029 every now and then a book comes along that solves a niche problems so well 380 00:24:53.549 --> 00:24:56.630 and and this is one of those books. I mean I can't imagine anyone 381 00:24:56.670 --> 00:25:00.390 involved in content creation not just absolutely loving this book. So tell us about 382 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:06.349 the content fuel framework and your interview with Melii diesel. Yeah, this book 383 00:25:06.390 --> 00:25:08.660 was a Grand Slam. And yes, that's a baseball term that I understand 384 00:25:08.660 --> 00:25:14.059 all the Europeans hate Americans using, but I'm not. I'm not trying to 385 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:17.619 be a hater. We'll talk about football later or cricket or something like that. 386 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:22.170 So one of the big challenges. Every survey you ever read about marketers 387 00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:26.170 who are doing content marketing, which tells me that they're at least working for 388 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:30.049 a company that understands that every company is now a media company. I mean 389 00:25:30.089 --> 00:25:32.930 even on knucklehead like me, as a podcast, I'm a media company. 390 00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:34.920 But everyone can create their own content. You don't have to go through all 391 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:40.039 these gatekeepers to buy media or beg for it from, you know, the 392 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.000 newspapers and all that sort of thing. But you can still do that or 393 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:47.039 you can call people one at a time and beg for beg for a sale. 394 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:51.349 But they're using content to draw the right kind of people right to them. 395 00:25:51.390 --> 00:25:55.190 Well, one of the biggest challenges is coming up with enough content. 396 00:25:55.630 --> 00:25:57.910 And one of the underlying problems there, and I see this every week when 397 00:25:57.950 --> 00:26:02.750 I talk to companies and they say what would we create content about? What 398 00:26:02.869 --> 00:26:10.099 would we do? And this book completely sets aside that because after reading this 399 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:14.420 book, in the process she has, you will have too much content and 400 00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:18.569 you will need to prioritize and that's a good problem to have. So she 401 00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:23.009 is she was a journalist and then she worked for a lot of publications. 402 00:26:23.089 --> 00:26:26.849 Don't creating content for clients, you know, like native advertising and that type 403 00:26:26.930 --> 00:26:32.009 the thing, and now she's got her own firm in New York and what 404 00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:36.559 she has is this approach. Now before I still explain the approach. It's 405 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:38.839 almost like a multiplication table. If you want to visualize that. You don't 406 00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:44.039 have to memorize it like we did in elementary school. But the main one 407 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:47.119 of the obviously on the main points is you have to understand who your customer 408 00:26:47.230 --> 00:26:49.230 is, who your buyer is. You know, that's that's the hard part. 409 00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:53.710 But also she talks about this idea of, you know, the the 410 00:26:55.109 --> 00:26:57.990 content focus rather than the format, and other words I hear from a lot 411 00:26:57.990 --> 00:27:00.789 of companies. They say, well, we need to have a blog and 412 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:02.859 we need to have a podcast and we need to have this, so we 413 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:04.660 need to have that, and she's saying no, no, you don't. 414 00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:11.259 It's first focus on the focus, focus on who does you're trying to reach, 415 00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:14.539 because they're all different and different types of things apply to them. So 416 00:27:15.220 --> 00:27:19.490 on the left side of this multiplication table are all help me out here, 417 00:27:19.849 --> 00:27:25.809 I don't have an just like writing, infographic, audio video, live video, 418 00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:29.089 image gallery, timeline, quiz tools, map, that kind of stuff 419 00:27:29.089 --> 00:27:30.599 is on the left hand side. Right, okay, so those are all 420 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:37.000 the different forms. And then across the top was I'm sorry, Melanie, 421 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.119 you've got like people, basics, details, history, processed creation data, 422 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.190 product, example, and yeah, so, and then you just kind of 423 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:47.549 line them up. Yeah, and then so then you you, you can 424 00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:49.549 then put them all on a whiteboard. And even I we have a client. 425 00:27:49.589 --> 00:27:53.190 We do a lot of content for and we fill in a lot of 426 00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:56.750 these blanks, but I mean a lot, maybe thirty of them, but 427 00:27:57.069 --> 00:28:00.140 it's a helpful exercise to go through. So in other words, you say, 428 00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:03.859 all right, what is what would go in this block, which is 429 00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:06.980 this focus and this form, and you know, some of them may be 430 00:28:07.059 --> 00:28:08.900 kind of funny or silly, but you come up with all these ideas and 431 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:12.210 I guarantee when you go through this exercise and you could do it in about 432 00:28:12.210 --> 00:28:15.609 an hour or two, or hire melody her have her firm coming and show 433 00:28:15.650 --> 00:28:18.569 you how to do it. I think in the interview she said, yeah, 434 00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:21.329 a lot of people buy the book, they do it and then the 435 00:28:21.369 --> 00:28:23.970 next year they have her come in because they see how well it works. 436 00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:26.880 They want to hire. But you go through all that and you start to 437 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.960 realize, AH, this makes sense, we don't really need to have a 438 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.440 podcast or you know, this is something that no one else is doing. 439 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.680 So it was really it was fantastic and I it's one of those books that's 440 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:42.029 going to sit on a content marketers desk just because it's so helpful for planning, 441 00:28:42.069 --> 00:28:47.109 even for experience content marketers. And the other thing is you can look 442 00:28:47.109 --> 00:28:52.309 at this approach and realize that there are certain areas for those in a more 443 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:56.740 competitive situation, they're just not taken. Yes, why is nobody like that? 444 00:28:56.180 --> 00:29:00.299 Yeah, open, yeah, yeah, I've ever, I've already used 445 00:29:00.339 --> 00:29:03.500 this book as an ongoing resource on how to develop topic ideas for one of 446 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:07.619 my clients and it's just it's brilliant. I mean, like I said, 447 00:29:07.660 --> 00:29:10.809 I can imagine that any person that's involved in content creation that would I love 448 00:29:10.849 --> 00:29:15.009 the idea because it's sort of synthetic creativity. Right. Instead of just, 449 00:29:15.130 --> 00:29:17.450 you know, getting a burst of genius that comes out of the blue, 450 00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:19.329 you're starting to you're being more methodical about it and it starts to help you 451 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:23.170 see where there's gaps and content out there where maybe there it's not being contested. 452 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.720 Maybe no one's ever created a tool or done a map or something like 453 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.200 that around the area and one of those ten areas, and so it's just 454 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.559 easy way to sort of claim that space and then and the prioritized content around. 455 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:37.710 It's just amazing. Yes, and let me add to that they're just 456 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:41.589 a spoiler alert for the listener. The Myth there is the myth of creativity. 457 00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:45.390 There is no such thing as creativity. Let me slip what I mean. 458 00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:47.630 There are a couple of their books on the show in the last couple 459 00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:49.470 of years and one of them was the creative curve by Alan Gannett. Brilliant 460 00:29:49.470 --> 00:29:53.220 Book and he talks about and shows and he goes way back in history and 461 00:29:53.299 --> 00:30:00.140 shows how the most creative things were the result of following a process. There 462 00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:03.220 was another book on in the last year, I think, called the innovation 463 00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:07.410 mandate by Nicholas Webb, another fantastic book, and he talks about how innovation 464 00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:12.849 is a process. You then, the great innovations did not come by somebody 465 00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:18.250 having a bottle of Scotch on the conference room table, and I've done extensive 466 00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:22.000 research into that approach, James Muir. So just just know. But the 467 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.599 same thing she shows the process. There's a process you go through and sure 468 00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:30.839 your management and your customers are going to think you were you had a flash 469 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.079 of genius. Let him think that there was hard work that went into it, 470 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.190 but there's a it's a process and it will absolutely work right. So 471 00:30:38.349 --> 00:30:41.750 I know question anyone picking up this book and not get being able to get 472 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:45.230 the result that is promising here and and what you just said is really was 473 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:48.710 her takeaway on the on the interview, it was like, you know, 474 00:30:48.789 --> 00:30:51.819 you're already so creative. Well, all you need is the system to help 475 00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:55.339 you mind that creativity that you've already got. Right, that was her thing 476 00:30:55.420 --> 00:30:57.500 and the one thing she said that. I mean, so if you prioritize 477 00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:00.619 all these, I think let's see if I can figure out which one, 478 00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:03.220 this category, this fits into. But she said make a list of ten 479 00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:07.450 people in your industry that your audience should know and then start creating content around 480 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:11.650 that. Right that that was her number one suggestion. there. Of course, 481 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:12.569 there's sons of different ways you could apply, but that seemed to be 482 00:31:12.569 --> 00:31:17.569 her favorite one of all the ones. So I'm honestly phenomenally practical book. 483 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:19.480 If you're even remotely involved in content creation, you'll be glad that you got 484 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.599 this particular book. It's really great. Yeah, and also I think that 485 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.000 there are people who are thinking, well, we should do that, or 486 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:32.200 the boss just read an inflight magazine about doing a podcast. Now he or 487 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:33.589 she wants to do a podcast. It's like, okay, boss, I 488 00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:37.589 hear you. Can we just do this other exercise first? First, yeah, 489 00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.549 exactly, and then in perspective. Yeah, and then you'll have like 490 00:31:41.670 --> 00:31:47.220 a hundred little blocks on the white board and or post it notes and you'll 491 00:31:47.259 --> 00:31:49.460 start to realize, you know what, there's like six other things that we 492 00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:55.940 could probably do more effectively, more efficiently, faster with greater impact than doing 493 00:31:56.099 --> 00:31:59.380 the doing a podcaster with a film of plank is, yeah, much heavier 494 00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.730 lift. Yeah, I honestly I if you go through her process, I 495 00:32:01.769 --> 00:32:06.690 can't imagine you coming up with any less than a hundred and fifty ideas. 496 00:32:06.690 --> 00:32:08.609 If you start when she started, using the content multiplier piece, which is 497 00:32:08.609 --> 00:32:12.009 at the end of the book, you're just going to end up with so 498 00:32:12.130 --> 00:32:15.009 much content you really will have to prioritize what you want to do and then 499 00:32:15.049 --> 00:32:16.880 you can pick right what's easy. Was Hard? Yeah, yeah, what 500 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:21.160 you want, what's give you the must impact. So awesome book. All 501 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:23.839 right. Well, next up we've got inked, the ultimate guide to powerful 502 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:29.279 closing and negotiation tactics that unlock yes and seal the deal, by Jeff Blunt 503 00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:31.390 and A. Jeb is a prolific writer. He's got nine books. I 504 00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:36.430 think he's got a ten book coming up. And because the roots of negotiation 505 00:32:36.549 --> 00:32:40.150 challenges mostly come from the sales process, this book just might be his best 506 00:32:40.230 --> 00:32:44.420 book ever because it ties all that together. So tell us a little bit 507 00:32:44.420 --> 00:32:47.140 about your interview with Jeb Blunt. Wow. Well, I because when you're 508 00:32:47.140 --> 00:32:51.140 in the marketing book podcast to You keep track of all kinds of Trivia and 509 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:57.819 he's written eleven books. WHOA come off, unfortunately, good, because he's 510 00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:00.450 got one coming up on partial selling. I'm gonterviewing next week about it. 511 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:06.329 Yeah, and he will actually be the second current member of the Marketing Book 512 00:33:06.369 --> 00:33:12.130 Podcast Five Timers Club, which will get him a discount at any TACO bell 513 00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:15.880 in the Augusta Georgian. Well, he is easily the hardest working guy in 514 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.720 sales, I guess. Yes, yes, would like when covid's not keeping 515 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.119 people traveling, that guys on the road like two hundred fifty days a year 516 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:24.799 or something. But even now he's going crazy. He's right in this virtual 517 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:30.390 selling book and just just going a hundred miles an hour. It's like he's 518 00:33:30.430 --> 00:33:35.630 going to spontaneous come spontaneously from buck one day like a spinal tap drummer. 519 00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:39.509 So I hope that doesn't happen. But obviously James and I are big fans 520 00:33:39.549 --> 00:33:46.099 of Jeb Blunt and his books. Are Fee nominal. And this book he 521 00:33:46.339 --> 00:33:52.819 starts out and he talked about how he was in a situation with a hostage 522 00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:59.170 and I was snowing outside and he was the hostage negotiator and there had been 523 00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:02.609 shots fired and lives were at stake. Is it sound like some other kind 524 00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:06.450 of book you may have read? And then he says right, only problem 525 00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:08.969 is that's total BS and he didn't call it any names. He says, 526 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:15.800 look, there's been plenty of books written by our beloved former FBI agents and 527 00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:20.239 Navy seals and Army Rangers. Okay, and we love them all, but 528 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:25.150 he says, look, those are maybe negotiations, but that's different from sales 529 00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:30.269 negotiations. Amen. And yet there's millions of dollars on the line when it 530 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:34.710 comes to sales negotiation. You were bilious. See that right. So it's 531 00:34:34.789 --> 00:34:37.309 tea. It's equally important, but it's just a totally different kind of negotiation. 532 00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:40.860 So hilarious way of illustrating that point, I think. Right in the 533 00:34:40.900 --> 00:34:45.139 first yeah, and all those books by the FBI agents and the seals and 534 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:51.219 the rangers and all fantastic books and we appreciate their service, but he's saying 535 00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:53.170 look and I'm sure he's right. I'm enjoyed them, but it's like it 536 00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:59.690 we're talking sales negotiation here, slightly different. It may seem subtle, but 537 00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:04.449 after reading the book it's enormously important. And so there were I'd never read 538 00:35:04.489 --> 00:35:07.480 a book like this before and I'm not sure there have been too many like 539 00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:09.679 this. Maybe that's why you think this may actually know it's it's like a 540 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.599 salesbook in a negotiation book all together. And the way he handles the challenges 541 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.480 in a negotiations by going back to the root cause in the sales process. 542 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:21.239 So it's it's both. It's I don't I've never seen a book like this. 543 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:24.590 It's really unique in that regard. So he talks about how a lot 544 00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:30.429 of experts and sales trainers shy away from the subject of sales negotiation and one 545 00:35:30.429 --> 00:35:37.059 of the reasons is because it's really hard and Duh. But he there's some 546 00:35:37.179 --> 00:35:39.500 truth to it. That explains and he also explains that. I know we're 547 00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:43.860 going to hurt some feelings here, but most salespeople, he says, they 548 00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:50.210 suck at negotiating, absolutely and he said buyers are much better at negotiating than 549 00:35:50.289 --> 00:35:53.210 sellers, and he deconstructs us and explains it and he also talks about the 550 00:35:53.929 --> 00:36:00.449 warm, the misleading warm blanket of this negotiate, this winwin idea. He 551 00:36:00.530 --> 00:36:06.800 says that's a misunderstood concept and it's harmful to people. So you know he 552 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.840 goes to this. But you know it's like the book the last start of 553 00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:13.920 closing by Anthony and Areno, okay, you think there's some big thing that 554 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.199 happens at the very end. No, it's actually something that happens throughout the 555 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.349 entire process. There's this other book by this guy, I can't remember his 556 00:36:21.389 --> 00:36:24.190 name, but it's called it's called the perfect close. You're killing me mouth. 557 00:36:24.309 --> 00:36:28.590 And so in that book, of course you read through this whole book 558 00:36:28.590 --> 00:36:30.710 and you're thinking, okay, what is it? Well, of course you 559 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:36.860 don't get it until you've read the whole book, but closing is something that's 560 00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:42.380 baked into the whole process. It's just not this big whirlwind presentation at the 561 00:36:42.460 --> 00:36:45.380 end where you close same thing with and go shation. It's not like some 562 00:36:46.170 --> 00:36:51.130 tough negotiation that happens the very end if you're not negotiating from the very beginning 563 00:36:51.170 --> 00:36:53.889 and understanding that you should be. And in fact he even shows in the 564 00:36:53.929 --> 00:36:59.090 book how negotiating hard with your customers throughout the process is actually going to help 565 00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:02.800 your customer. So I'm sorry, I need to take a break now. 566 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:07.039 He's really great stuff here and in fact you can spend several hours going through 567 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:12.840 all the content that's in this book. Some really novel and new contributions in 568 00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:16.989 models around negotiation. One of them he's got this Roi Formula, which is 569 00:37:17.110 --> 00:37:24.190 Mbo plus EBOs. Price is that's the formula. Roi Equals Mbo plus EBOs. 570 00:37:24.630 --> 00:37:28.630 That was probably my favorite thing and what that meant. What it means 571 00:37:28.789 --> 00:37:37.099 is measurable Business Outcomes, right plust emotional business outcomes. If you don't have 572 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:43.699 those two then you subtract price. But Measurable Business Outcomes, Emotional Business Outcomes, 573 00:37:43.739 --> 00:37:46.210 James Muir, author the perfect close. How often is a sale made 574 00:37:46.250 --> 00:37:51.690 if you are not able to determine measurable Business Outcomes and Emotional Business Outcomes? 575 00:37:51.730 --> 00:37:55.050 I would say about the zero percent. There's got to be a win and 576 00:37:55.090 --> 00:37:58.329 it for me then it's got to be there something measurable if you're on the 577 00:37:58.369 --> 00:38:01.119 business side. But it also because any business win really is going to go 578 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:04.760 all the way back to that person. What's that person's personal win? If 579 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.079 the business wins? Yeah, I think I can tell you that, because 580 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.079 they might not be able to articulate it. Sometimes they don't, and if 581 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:13.550 your if your rapport is poor, you should be able to say it's some 582 00:38:13.789 --> 00:38:15.469 point. Hey, what's the what? Tell me what's in this for you? 583 00:38:15.550 --> 00:38:16.429 What you know? What's your what do you get out of this? 584 00:38:16.949 --> 00:38:20.190 They should be able to share that with you. Right, and so you 585 00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:23.829 don't have to guess anyway that his model here is just really perfect and simple 586 00:38:23.909 --> 00:38:27.780 enough that anybody can get it right. You've got to have a measure business 587 00:38:27.820 --> 00:38:30.980 outcome. You've got to have an emotional outcome and if you've ignored that for 588 00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:34.900 some reason, you're getting to the negotiation stage, you're at a serious handicap 589 00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:37.420 at that point because you you will not know what the real win is for 590 00:38:37.460 --> 00:38:39.219 them. You only know half of the formula, if you only know the 591 00:38:39.260 --> 00:38:43.289 business side. Some people don't even know that. Some people can't even articulate 592 00:38:43.369 --> 00:38:45.690 the monetary value that they bring to clients, which is well, you're going 593 00:38:45.730 --> 00:38:50.090 to be at a huge disadvantage if you don't know both the emotional win or 594 00:38:50.130 --> 00:38:52.690 the business win. You're just guessing at that point, right. It's just 595 00:38:52.809 --> 00:38:54.690 you're not you're not even selling professionally at that point. You know hundreds of 596 00:38:54.719 --> 00:39:00.519 books in the show that that Mbo e a plus Ebo thing, that that's 597 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:02.960 one that's going to stick forever. Yeah, and one of the one of 598 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.719 the end principle at the end of this phenomenal that I think applies to marketing 599 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.269 that the listeners would like is that nothing in this book amounts to a hill 600 00:39:10.309 --> 00:39:15.590 of beans if you're selling to the wrong prospect. And what he's saying is 601 00:39:15.670 --> 00:39:21.190 is that you could be a an eleven out of ten in terms of your 602 00:39:21.269 --> 00:39:23.340 negotiation skills, but if you're in front of a person that is the wrong 603 00:39:23.420 --> 00:39:27.340 prospect and they can't buy, it doesn't matter how you could be superman, 604 00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:29.940 it doesn't matter. You're not going to get the deal because you can't sell 605 00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:34.019 to a person is the wrong prospect. It's the single biggest mistake I think, 606 00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:37.300 that's made in selling is just a selling to the wrong person, because 607 00:39:37.300 --> 00:39:39.610 it's just a complete waste of time. Everything else down is downstream from that. 608 00:39:40.210 --> 00:39:43.289 Yeah, and you know, he tells the story and I can't remember 609 00:39:43.289 --> 00:39:45.570 if I heard it on a stage where he spoke it or it was in 610 00:39:45.650 --> 00:39:49.250 one of his other books, but he talks about how he worked for a 611 00:39:49.329 --> 00:39:53.599 company in the past where he was the top salesman of the year. Big 612 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.400 Company, I think fortune, five hundred country company, if I'm not mistaken. 613 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.760 Then that very next year he was the top salesman again. So then 614 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:05.559 he was up on an even bigger stage with like the CEO and apparently the 615 00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:09.429 CEO said what's the secret to your success? And he said I don't talk 616 00:40:09.510 --> 00:40:15.389 to people that can't buy from me. Right there. He didn't waste his 617 00:40:15.510 --> 00:40:21.460 time talking to bad fit prospects. Just yeah, you know, funny application 618 00:40:21.539 --> 00:40:22.619 of that that I used to use. That will make you look this is 619 00:40:22.659 --> 00:40:27.780 an insider secret for any sales guy listening is this is a busy grows show 620 00:40:28.099 --> 00:40:34.260 exclusive extra. That's exactly that is. If you detect that this is not 621 00:40:34.420 --> 00:40:37.889 a good client, will look like a generous person and give it to one 622 00:40:37.929 --> 00:40:39.969 of your other sales guys on the team because they're going to waste a ton 623 00:40:40.050 --> 00:40:43.730 of time on that deal and you can go out and focus your time on 624 00:40:43.769 --> 00:40:46.130 high probability prospects. So it's a win win. You look like you're being 625 00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:50.440 generous, but in reality what you're doing is you're giving them a loadstone. 626 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.400 Yeah, maybe there was that curl tactic. There was one thing at the 627 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:58.559 very end where he says at this moment, this very moment, two races 628 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.679 are occurring in the sales profession, a race to the bottom and a race 629 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:06.030 to relevance. There and they goes on to say the race to the bottom 630 00:41:06.030 --> 00:41:10.269 leads to this concept called extinction. So yeah, I mean, if you 631 00:41:10.309 --> 00:41:15.030 think about it, discounting is the ignorance tax that you pay for not knowing 632 00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:20.780 how to negotiate, and I love its yeah, this book is just a 633 00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:22.860 really great at pulling all that together. I mean, like I said at 634 00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:25.940 the beginning, almost all the challenges in negotiation could be traced back to some 635 00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:30.179 fundamental sales process that's not being followed correctly, and so because of that, 636 00:41:30.260 --> 00:41:34.690 I think this book is both a great sales book but also a great negotiation 637 00:41:34.809 --> 00:41:37.250 book. HMM, all right. Well, last up we've got, can 638 00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:40.769 you hear me? How to connect with people in a virtual world by Nick 639 00:41:40.849 --> 00:41:44.329 Morgan, and I'm a huge fan of Nick Moore. One of his other 640 00:41:44.369 --> 00:41:47.639 books it's called powerques, and as was super excited to read this book. 641 00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:51.119 Can you hear me? So tell tell us a little bit about your interview 642 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.719 with Nick Morgan. So, right after I went into quarantine, like everyone 643 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:58.840 else didn't, like the middle of March, I got an email from Harvard 644 00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:00.869 business review publicist and they said, Hey, here's a couple of books and 645 00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:04.750 this one was can you hear me? Now? Communications in a virtual world, 646 00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:06.909 and I thought, oh my Gosh, when was this book written? 647 00:42:06.949 --> 00:42:09.070 It was written like two years ago, and I said I have got to 648 00:42:09.230 --> 00:42:15.389 talk to him because suddenly everyone was having to communicate virtually and moved him up 649 00:42:15.389 --> 00:42:19.099 to the front of the line. And it's a brilliantly written book. Not 650 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:22.059 his first little bit of Trivia. He was a speech writer for the governor 651 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.219 of Virginia when I was graduating from college in Virginia. That you're and turns 652 00:42:27.219 --> 00:42:31.530 out he wrote my commencement speech. So the more you know that is more 653 00:42:31.530 --> 00:42:37.570 useless information taking up my mental hard drive. But but I still remember that 654 00:42:37.610 --> 00:42:43.050 speech. But any way, he talks about how the the digital era is 655 00:42:43.090 --> 00:42:49.039 a communications disaster. That's not what you would expect, you know, and 656 00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:52.000 so he's basically saying, look, I'm not saying that all this digital communication. 657 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:57.480 It's not going away, but it's there are some serious limitations to it. 658 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:02.269 You know, you can't you can't communicate the way humans have been communicating 659 00:43:02.309 --> 00:43:07.110 since the days we were living in caves. In other words, you can't 660 00:43:07.150 --> 00:43:10.070 sense body language very well. You can't. You actually, when you're communicating 661 00:43:10.110 --> 00:43:15.179 digitally, you can hear all the range of someone's voice right, you can't 662 00:43:15.219 --> 00:43:20.820 see their eyes very well, very well at all, and so all most 663 00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:24.260 of what is said is actually a smaller part of what people use to absorb 664 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:31.369 communication. So there's a big problem with empathy, meaning when you're communicating virtually 665 00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:36.610 your empathy skills, you know, and for some people they're not very good, 666 00:43:36.929 --> 00:43:42.880 others they are, but your empathy skills are really at a disadvantage. 667 00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:45.840 So he even has an empathy test in the book and I took it and 668 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:50.400 I got a twenty six out of forty, and that's that's in the mid 669 00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.559 range. I shared it with my daughter and she said none of that's I 670 00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:57.510 think you know, you clearly have no empathy at all. Touching. Yeah, 671 00:43:57.829 --> 00:44:02.869 totally shut out. So anyway, I didn't say that Iq. Yeah, 672 00:44:02.909 --> 00:44:07.110 yeah, right. But even then, so that you communicate virtually you're 673 00:44:07.110 --> 00:44:12.579 probably like a fifteen out of forty. So there are certain things you have 674 00:44:12.619 --> 00:44:17.099 to do to make sure that you are communicating more effectively and that you are 675 00:44:17.219 --> 00:44:22.260 paying much more attention to okay, so on a phone. Well, he 676 00:44:22.340 --> 00:44:25.610 starts out by talking about emails and he talks about how, I can remember 677 00:44:25.650 --> 00:44:30.730 there was a study that showed that this large number of people they pulled. 678 00:44:30.769 --> 00:44:34.090 They said do you think your emails are being understood, and the majority said 679 00:44:34.130 --> 00:44:37.639 yes, and they all the people that receive the emails. What was it? 680 00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:44.119 Majority thought that the completely misunderstood what the communication was a missmash. And 681 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.119 the other one that he's mentioned was they really quick quip, nice job. 682 00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.760 Oh yeah, that's right. Right. Isn't email a nice job? And 683 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:52.510 did you know sixty percent of the people when you send them a hey, 684 00:44:52.550 --> 00:44:57.949 nice job, they think you're being sarcastic. Holyse folks, right, that 685 00:44:58.110 --> 00:45:00.389 is and as of course, that that nails the problem with virtual communication, 686 00:45:00.789 --> 00:45:04.670 to a tea, is that we don't get all the other human elements. 687 00:45:04.829 --> 00:45:07.059 Right, yeah, and so the the feedback is not there, then you 688 00:45:07.099 --> 00:45:12.219 get you know. So he talks about email communications, he talks about text 689 00:45:12.340 --> 00:45:16.139 he talks about a telephone calls, conference calls, videos, fold weapon ars, 690 00:45:16.420 --> 00:45:22.289 webinars. Oh and there's a special place in Nick Morgan Hell for webinars. 691 00:45:22.530 --> 00:45:27.489 He's they are so awful. Now that doesn't mean webinars aren't going to 692 00:45:27.530 --> 00:45:30.170 get better. I'm sure they are. They're already getting better because people have 693 00:45:30.610 --> 00:45:36.920 for too long treated webinars like they are walking people through a screen share of 694 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.000 a power point slideshow. There's so many other things you could be doing with 695 00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:45.280 the webinar where you're interacting with people, taking polls, you know, things 696 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.440 like that. So it just like you know, when you make a presentation 697 00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:51.429 in real life, you try to interact with the the audience. It's more 698 00:45:51.469 --> 00:45:53.429 fun for the speaker. The listeners get more out of it. So for 699 00:45:53.630 --> 00:45:58.590 you, you basically leverage the strengths of whatever the medium is, but don't 700 00:45:58.630 --> 00:46:04.150 just show slides. So then, but the thing is he talks about. 701 00:46:04.699 --> 00:46:07.179 This is super relevant to me because you know everybody's communicating on zoom these days. 702 00:46:07.219 --> 00:46:10.820 He talks about how you know it's okay. So feedback is a real 703 00:46:12.019 --> 00:46:15.739 problem. You can't tell it even had this idea. When you start a 704 00:46:15.019 --> 00:46:19.730 meeting you say hey, let's go around, let's go around and let's let 705 00:46:19.730 --> 00:46:22.409 everybody know. Are you a red, yellow or a green? A red 706 00:46:22.489 --> 00:46:24.769 means you're having the day from Hell. Yellow means something's kind of bothering you. 707 00:46:25.090 --> 00:46:28.889 Green means everything's okay. You don't have tell us what it is, 708 00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:31.090 but we just want to know how everybody's doing. Let's go around the table. 709 00:46:31.329 --> 00:46:35.320 You know what are else, go around the screen and right off the 710 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.800 bat he shows how that's really much more helpful to figure out. And then 711 00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:42.400 the other thing you have to do when you're talking to people, whether it's 712 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.360 on a telephone conference call or is a video conference, is you have to 713 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:51.150 actively solicit input from people. You have to make a point of going through 714 00:46:51.190 --> 00:46:52.469 and saying, what do you think about that? What are your thoughts on 715 00:46:52.630 --> 00:46:55.469 that? You know, really you really have to pull teeth more to get 716 00:46:55.510 --> 00:47:00.070 reactions out of people. And there's even some other things that you should do, 717 00:47:00.230 --> 00:47:04.619 like you should make sure that more of your face is on the screen. 718 00:47:05.059 --> 00:47:07.659 It's going to make it easier for the other person. So if you're 719 00:47:07.659 --> 00:47:12.099 sitting in the back or you have your camera turned off, you're really you're 720 00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:16.530 not helping yourself actually. And the thing is a light colored window, so 721 00:47:16.610 --> 00:47:22.369 you look like a dark sway from the window. Actually you should get the 722 00:47:22.449 --> 00:47:24.369 best Hollywood lighting. Is Not as good as sitting in front of a window 723 00:47:24.409 --> 00:47:28.210 with the light coming in on your face. But if you turn around and 724 00:47:28.369 --> 00:47:30.000 have the window to your back, you're going to look like you are in 725 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:35.599 the witness protection program and most people I know, approximate a hundred percent, 726 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:38.679 are not in the witness protection program okay, so what else do witness protection 727 00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:43.119 program people have? They have these really garbled voices and if you are not 728 00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:46.869 wearing a headset when you're on a zoom call, you are putting yourself at 729 00:47:46.869 --> 00:47:52.590 a big disadvantage. And the reason why is because if you're that person who 730 00:47:52.710 --> 00:47:54.110 is saying, Oh, I'm sorry, could you repeat that because you can't 731 00:47:54.110 --> 00:47:59.460 hear it off the speaker on your laptop or your desktop, you're causing friction, 732 00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:02.219 you're irritating other people but, most importantly, you're not hearing what they're 733 00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:07.380 saying. But if you have that headset on, they're able to hear you 734 00:48:07.780 --> 00:48:12.780 better and your communication becomes better. But you know the other things he talked 735 00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:16.050 about that I just he really brought to the four with his idea of authenticity. 736 00:48:17.010 --> 00:48:21.929 So the more authentic you can be, the better. And then even 737 00:48:21.969 --> 00:48:23.730 goes for like doing videos, like I'm just reading a book right now that'll 738 00:48:23.809 --> 00:48:28.039 we'll be talking about in a couple months on the on this show, and 739 00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:30.840 they talk about, you know, corporate videos that are real slick and prepared 740 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.239 and you've got to tell a prompter and perfect lighting, versus those where somebody 741 00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:37.840 just has a phone and they're just being sort of authentic and explaining something. 742 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:43.949 And he shows case after case where more views go to those where people think 743 00:48:44.150 --> 00:48:47.909 it's a more authentic video. Yep, Yep. Well, the carks of 744 00:48:47.949 --> 00:48:52.269 this whole thing is that this, that virtual communication, doesn't have the human 745 00:48:52.349 --> 00:48:58.099 touch, and then that affects empathy and that affects and so there's got to 746 00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:00.860 be feedback anyway. And then the rest of the book is essentially him giving 747 00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:04.300 you workarounds of how to address these things in and you've already given him a 748 00:49:04.300 --> 00:49:08.739 couple. So is his big takeaway on this for the listeners was, you 749 00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:13.530 know, ask yourself, how did I how did what I just say made 750 00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:15.769 that person feel? How did it make them feel? And a few I 751 00:49:15.809 --> 00:49:22.130 don't care. That's why you scored twelve. It's great how did that? 752 00:49:22.329 --> 00:49:25.239 However, how could that have made them feel? How there you know? 753 00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:30.599 How could I have been misunderstood? They're yeah, and it's if you don't 754 00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:32.159 know, then just ahead and ask them that, because then that's going to 755 00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:36.480 give them the opportunity to tell you and at the same time that's going to 756 00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:38.590 show that you have the respect in the sensibility to want to know right. 757 00:49:38.630 --> 00:49:42.469 And so there's a lot of like that. Author. Isn't authenticity is a 758 00:49:42.630 --> 00:49:45.989 major part of this whole book, which has come up in a couple other 759 00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:49.110 books that we've done as well. And the one thing that he said that 760 00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.429 they could do is that what you mentioned earlier is at the beginning your meetings, 761 00:49:52.469 --> 00:49:54.219 just ask everybody how are you feeling? And he's got it kind of 762 00:49:54.260 --> 00:49:58.219 a red light yell, like Green Light, you know, approach that you 763 00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:00.900 can take, which he's got some deaf finitions for in there. I couldn't 764 00:50:00.900 --> 00:50:05.699 believe such a simple approach work so well. But as I've seen people and 765 00:50:05.780 --> 00:50:07.090 as I've gone out in public, I gues I am wearing a mask, 766 00:50:07.130 --> 00:50:09.289 but I just ask everyone, Hey, are you a red, green or 767 00:50:09.289 --> 00:50:14.090 yellow light? Today, normally I get asked by Costco Security to leave the 768 00:50:14.130 --> 00:50:19.690 building. But I'm seriously, folks, page twenty eight of can you hear 769 00:50:19.769 --> 00:50:22.519 me? Is Worth the price of the book. I think even James will 770 00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:27.440 mightself. It's the ten commandments of online sale. Say, don't even talking 771 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:31.519 about yeah, this is a this is awesome. And one of the things 772 00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:34.840 he said in there is that sales we've got a new world. We live 773 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.590 in a new world now because of the Internet, right, and sales people 774 00:50:37.630 --> 00:50:39.989 need to learn a whole new batch of techniques that they have not had in 775 00:50:40.070 --> 00:50:44.630 the past. We need to establish personal connection immediately, as soon as we 776 00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:47.429 get connected with the client, we need to establish that personal connectivity and then 777 00:50:47.429 --> 00:50:52.460 we need to discover what stage they're actually in and meet the customer in that 778 00:50:52.539 --> 00:50:55.219 stage. And so and that's just one of any and of course he's got 779 00:50:55.300 --> 00:50:59.900 his ten commandments of online sales and presentations which have made my opinion, is 780 00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:02.300 worth the price of the book by itself. Yeah, it was fantastic and 781 00:51:02.780 --> 00:51:06.969 I know we've gone along on this episode, but this first off it was 782 00:51:07.130 --> 00:51:09.130 it was five Fridays in the previous months. So there were five books, 783 00:51:09.210 --> 00:51:15.090 but these five were just fun work. Yeah, really great. So I 784 00:51:15.170 --> 00:51:19.400 think this particularly books super awesome and super elevant right now, and one of 785 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:23.000 my favorite things is and all the workarounds, is his recommendation to use emojis 786 00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:27.559 in professional writing. We have kind of avoided that and in yours pass and 787 00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:30.599 that's what we have to surprise me. He says yes, I conclude emojis 788 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:35.550 and I have a client in his s and he'd been including emojis and I 789 00:51:35.590 --> 00:51:38.150 always thought, oh, it's kind of funny. But you know, whether 790 00:51:38.230 --> 00:51:42.230 he he I think he's just a very good communicator and he didn't maybe not 791 00:51:42.309 --> 00:51:45.349 a read Knicks book, but he was showing how the use of an Emoji 792 00:51:45.789 --> 00:51:51.539 is really helpful. So I've started using I've even started using gifts or Jeff's, 793 00:51:51.579 --> 00:51:52.860 whatere. I I don't want to get into that es. Okay, 794 00:51:53.659 --> 00:51:59.820 first debate. We know you mean. Yeah, it's it's helpful. It 795 00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:01.969 adds the emotion to it and that's that's especially because you and I are the 796 00:52:01.969 --> 00:52:05.530 same. We're both tend to be a little sarcastic at times, and so 797 00:52:05.650 --> 00:52:09.769 that could get really dangerous whenever speak for yoursels. So communication all right. 798 00:52:09.849 --> 00:52:13.409 Well, as always, alert a ton from this month's books. They were 799 00:52:13.449 --> 00:52:15.920 all excellent. All five of these really great. So what new books do 800 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:17.960 we have coming up on the marketing book podcasts? Well, coming up is 801 00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.519 the first is another book that's super relevant to what we're doing these days, 802 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:27.519 the non obvious guide to virtual meetings and remote work when you just can't be 803 00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:32.750 there in person. By Rohit Bargava. Stories that stick, how storytelling can 804 00:52:32.789 --> 00:52:37.030 captivate customers, influence audiences and transform your business. By Ken Draw Hall, 805 00:52:37.989 --> 00:52:43.110 the new rules of marketing and PR how to use content marketing, podcasting, 806 00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:47.380 social media, AI, live video and news jacking to reach buyers directly, 807 00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:52.860 seventh edition by David Merriman. Scott, the king, the king. Well, 808 00:52:52.940 --> 00:52:57.019 no, he's The godfather the market book podcast K Schaefer's the King of 809 00:52:57.059 --> 00:52:59.849 the marketing book podcasts, and that's right. I mean that in an Elvis 810 00:52:59.929 --> 00:53:02.010 way, not in a British monarchy way. Again, I'm very extensive to 811 00:53:02.090 --> 00:53:07.690 my my UK cousins. And the last one is how to sell in place, 812 00:53:07.130 --> 00:53:12.329 closing deals in the new normal, by Tom searcy and Kara Jane more. 813 00:53:12.849 --> 00:53:15.000 That is another book that has been rushed to the front of the line 814 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:21.480 because it's all about selling in this new normal. I know some people don't 815 00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.159 like that term, but I think you know what I mean and that you 816 00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:28.869 know I found out about that Book James Mere Talk to me by name. 817 00:53:28.909 --> 00:53:30.389 James Muir told me about it and I said, oh my gosh, I 818 00:53:30.429 --> 00:53:32.949 didn't know about that book. Do you know him? Could you put me 819 00:53:32.989 --> 00:53:36.150 in touch with him? Is there any chance you might feel to help get 820 00:53:36.150 --> 00:53:38.989 him on the podcast? Next thing I knew, James Mure making it happen. 821 00:53:39.429 --> 00:53:43.460 I've already found the interview. Thank you, Sir Thomas. Amazing. 822 00:53:43.500 --> 00:53:45.340 Can't wait to hear the Inter it's a great Oh, it's a great book. 823 00:53:45.659 --> 00:53:51.219 These next four again, James Muir is not going to be disappointed. 824 00:53:51.340 --> 00:53:54.179 These were these were absolutely fantastic, and I guess you know, in fairness 825 00:53:54.219 --> 00:53:59.329 I say that because I get a lot of you know, the the wonderful 826 00:53:59.369 --> 00:54:01.849 blessing of having lots and lots of books show up now, many more than 827 00:54:01.889 --> 00:54:06.610 I can ever feature on the fifty two weeks in the year. So you 828 00:54:06.690 --> 00:54:08.289 know, it makes my heart hurt that I can't say yes to every author, 829 00:54:08.329 --> 00:54:10.519 but the ones that I do get to pick are ones that I am 830 00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:15.000 really excited about and that's why, you know, James Likes it and hopefully 831 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.840 the listeners like it too. So I know we say they're all great books, 832 00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:22.199 but they really have risen to the top in terms of really yeah. 833 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:27.750 Well, James, are you going to be going anywhere anytime soon or speaking 834 00:54:27.789 --> 00:54:30.429 anywhere? Well, I was doing a thing in July in DC and it 835 00:54:30.510 --> 00:54:36.110 looks like that has turned virtual. So we'll be replacing that with some Webinar 836 00:54:36.309 --> 00:54:39.619 soon. Outbound, if you have not heard, is moved to two thousand 837 00:54:39.659 --> 00:54:43.900 and twenty one now. So we don't have an exact date for that, 838 00:54:44.179 --> 00:54:46.260 but it will most likely be either end of April or beginning of May. 839 00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:51.099 And then it was a summer. You know, they try to do it 840 00:54:51.139 --> 00:54:54.449 a little earlier in the year so that they can it's their schedules, it's 841 00:54:54.769 --> 00:54:58.369 it's for their convenience. Is Why they actualally tend to do it in the 842 00:54:58.369 --> 00:55:01.090 spring. But okay, yeah, because you get all of this, apparently 843 00:55:01.130 --> 00:55:06.210 the venue is kind of telling them when they can get him in to correct 844 00:55:06.409 --> 00:55:08.599 if such a big venue now correct. And so a lot of people were 845 00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:14.800 disappointed. But they'll be a couple of webinars actually that will maybe bump into 846 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.639 the fall. That will kind of it's not a replacement, but it'll be 847 00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:21.469 some things that will this some of the speakers will be doing with them great 848 00:55:21.510 --> 00:55:23.510 change from you. Er might be it in bound two thousand and twenty one. 849 00:55:23.989 --> 00:55:27.710 We will absolutely be it in bound two thousand and twenty one. So 850 00:55:28.030 --> 00:55:30.150 no problem there. And then they of course, they always have their kickoff 851 00:55:30.190 --> 00:55:32.469 at the beginning of the year. So anyway, it's been an interesting year. 852 00:55:32.469 --> 00:55:37.139 Almost everything's been turned virtual. Still doing the relationship marketing grand summit virtually 853 00:55:37.219 --> 00:55:40.900 and any other stuff coming up. So we won't we won't be Labor that, 854 00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:45.260 but thank you for the time. Sure, and I'm I'm been doing 855 00:55:45.380 --> 00:55:51.289 some webinars. Are there been like organizations that had events plan and they couldn't 856 00:55:51.289 --> 00:55:52.769 do it, so they've asked me to kind I'm doing one in Boston like 857 00:55:52.969 --> 00:55:57.010 next week, which will be before this publishes, and then there's another one 858 00:55:57.010 --> 00:56:01.730 I'm doing tomorrow actually in the in the UK. So everyone's available and so 859 00:56:01.889 --> 00:56:06.559 you may do what you can to kind of help folks out and encourage them 860 00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:09.960 to maybe take this time during the pandemic to keep learning and working on their 861 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.400 skills. So also is as I mentioned earlier. If either of US can 862 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:19.190 recommend a specific sales or marketing book or any other resource, and it doesn't 863 00:56:19.230 --> 00:56:22.590 have to be a Pook for whatever situation you find yourself in or whatever you 864 00:56:22.710 --> 00:56:23.909 really want to learn more about right now. And it was like a lot 865 00:56:23.949 --> 00:56:28.750 of free certifications out there too that I'm unfamiliar with. Connect with us on 866 00:56:28.789 --> 00:56:31.269 a linkedin where we can then chat and find out what you're looking to do, 867 00:56:31.389 --> 00:56:35.139 and then we'll do our best to get you pointed in the right direction. 868 00:56:35.420 --> 00:56:38.900 And remember, keep learning, because these days the big learners are the 869 00:56:39.179 --> 00:56:45.940 big earners. Is the decisionmaker for your product or service a beb marketer? 870 00:56:46.409 --> 00:56:52.329 Are you looking to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting? Considered becoming 871 00:56:52.369 --> 00:56:57.250 a cohost of BB growth? This show is consistently ranked as a top one 872 00:56:57.289 --> 00:57:00.440 hundred podcast in the marketing category of Apple Podcasts, and the show gets more 873 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:06.239 than a hundred and thirty thousand downloads each month. We've already done the work 874 00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:09.880 of building the audience, so you can focus on delivering incredible content to our 875 00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:15.199 listeners. If you're interested, email logan at sweetfish Mediacom.