May 1, 2020

#Books 12: How To Cut Through The Noise and Get Noticed w/ Douglas Burdett & James Muir

In this 12th episode of the #Books series, Douglas Burdett, Founder of ARTILLERY, and James Muir, author of "The Perfect Close", recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales books recently featured on The Marketing Book Podcast.


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:08.230 Hello and welcome to the B Tob Growth Show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas 2 00:00:08.269 --> 00:00:10.910 Burdett, hosts of the market book podcast, where each week I published an 3 00:00:10.910 --> 00:00:15.349 interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me and 4 00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:19.510 my listeners keep up with the latest ideas in the pretty quickly changing world of 5 00:00:19.550 --> 00:00:23.699 marketing and sales. Joining me is my friend James Mure, author of the 6 00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:28.899 perfect close, the secret to closing sales, the best selling practices and techniques 7 00:00:29.219 --> 00:00:33.219 for closing the deal. In this monthly episode of the B Tob Growth Show 8 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:37.049 we recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales books that were 9 00:00:37.049 --> 00:00:41.170 recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on the 10 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:45.250 Market Book Podcast, but James Reads even more books than I do and he 11 00:00:45.369 --> 00:00:49.250 listens to every episode of the Market Book Podcast. So I'm delighted that he 12 00:00:49.329 --> 00:00:54.000 can join me and if either of US can ever recommend any marketing or sales 13 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:58.320 books or other resources for whatever situation you find yourself in, please feel free 14 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:00.679 to connect with us on linkedin where we can chat and we'll do our best 15 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:06.230 to point you in the right direction. James Welcome back to the BE TOB 16 00:01:06.349 --> 00:01:08.510 growth show. Book Talk. Thank you, Douglas, your two kinds. 17 00:01:08.870 --> 00:01:12.629 We're always here to help. Right. It's right. In this episode we're 18 00:01:12.629 --> 00:01:15.790 going to talk about four recent books featured on the marketing book podcast, which 19 00:01:15.829 --> 00:01:21.340 are the catalyst. How to change anyone's mind, by Jona Burger, also 20 00:01:21.540 --> 00:01:25.939 the iconist, the art and science of standing out by Jamie mustard, create 21 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.859 togetherness, transform sales and marketing to exceed modern virus expectations and increase revenue by 22 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:34.969 Jeff Davis and finally, think do say, how to see his attention and 23 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:38.090 build trust in a busy, busy world by run tight. But before we 24 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.450 hit the books, I got to hear about what's happening from the quarantine. 25 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:46.689 What's happening at Fort Burdette? Well, so, every nobody's in the office 26 00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:49.439 now. We're all working from home. I've been going into the office on 27 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.840 every Friday just to check, check the mail. I mean the place is 28 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.599 empty, and I also that's when I record my usually record my episodes of 29 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.590 the marketing book podcast. That seems to be going along. Got Some clients 30 00:02:01.629 --> 00:02:07.150 that are kind of fading out and another big one that's heart charging right ahead. 31 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:10.469 So we'll see. I have no idea and I am very wary of 32 00:02:10.550 --> 00:02:15.139 folks that predict with a great degree of certainty. My daughter, my younger, 33 00:02:15.580 --> 00:02:19.939 she came home from spring break in college. She's a senior in college. 34 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:23.460 She got here and two to three days later she got a message from 35 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:30.090 the university saying don't come back. Oh, and and then they bought a 36 00:02:30.169 --> 00:02:34.330 couple days later they said we can't do the graduation either. They said they're 37 00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:38.569 going to do everything through like zoom and so forth. And so she's here. 38 00:02:38.770 --> 00:02:39.969 She's doing a lot of, you know, homework, she's taking our 39 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:46.080 comprehensive exams. Actually, she's gone into my office because your office. Yeah, 40 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:49.479 well, because got a good internet and a lot of space and nobody 41 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.560 bothering there like here in the house. And so she's disappointed that that all 42 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:55.919 kind of ended. She felt a little bit robbed. Is it really the 43 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.389 same when you throw your hat in front of the Zoom Camera? Im not 44 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:04.789 sure that it's the same. I don't think so. Yeah, probably not. 45 00:03:05.030 --> 00:03:07.590 So, yeah, that's kind of disappointed. She goes to a school 46 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:09.349 with it a lot of great traditions and she was, you know, really 47 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:13.819 looking forward to wrapping things up and she had been president of the student government 48 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:17.060 to so she was really very attached to the school and did quite well there. 49 00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:20.379 And then my son, who's just a little bit older, who's actually 50 00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:23.659 been he's still living at home, when it's great to have him home, 51 00:03:23.699 --> 00:03:28.289 although he's never around much. He's an EMT and he's a fulltime emt and 52 00:03:28.330 --> 00:03:34.449 then he's also a member of the Virginia Beach Volunteer Rescue Squad and my wife 53 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:38.930 was very concerned about him bringing the virus home. You know, tough because 54 00:03:38.969 --> 00:03:44.159 we he's out there doing a really important work and then we're worried about him 55 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.080 getting sick and it's just a lot of people are dealing with that. But 56 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:51.919 then today he was moving all his stuff out and I said what the Heck's 57 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.189 going on? He said, well, police hotels at the Virginia Beachoch in 58 00:03:55.229 --> 00:04:00.990 front or empty. So they've offered course, they've offered the medical professionals. 59 00:04:00.590 --> 00:04:03.349 So he's for the least for the next month. He's got a nice hotel 60 00:04:03.389 --> 00:04:09.270 room overlooking a lot of goes. Sweet got the right it's got a kitchen 61 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:12.659 in it and everything. So he took an advantage of that. Because he 62 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:16.500 was concerned about, you know, risking bringing home the virus. So that's 63 00:04:16.540 --> 00:04:19.139 kind of the the story there. What about you? What's going on in 64 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:25.329 Kassamure? Everything has gone remote. So all the training we do, all 65 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:28.810 the meetings we do, all happening remote. But we were doing a lot 66 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:31.329 of that before anyway, and so it wasn't that bigod change. I would 67 00:04:31.329 --> 00:04:36.730 say running a workshop remotely is it's just not quite the same because the reaction 68 00:04:36.769 --> 00:04:40.600 that you get from the audiences, you're not connecting with them on a facetoface 69 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.079 basis and you know, though you're on camera, just doesn't feel like you're 70 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.000 connecting the same. So it's about it's about fifty percent as good, but 71 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.920 we are shugging on and most of your son's back at the house now. 72 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:54.910 That's right. Both are quarantined and here at the House. One actually got 73 00:04:55.189 --> 00:04:58.470 laid off, so we will see where that lands. He's going to do 74 00:04:58.589 --> 00:05:00.990 video work for me, though, so it's my gain, their loss. 75 00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:08.459 But yeah, elsewise, everything is everything is good, mostly business as usual. 76 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:11.980 So most everything I do can still be done remote. Well, good, 77 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:14.740 and I'm sorry to hear about your son getting laid off. I've heard 78 00:05:14.740 --> 00:05:17.220 from a lot of listeners to the market we podcast about how suddenly they've been 79 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:19.379 laid off and they're asking me like, Oh, what should I do? 80 00:05:19.540 --> 00:05:23.490 What could I be reading? And it really makes me feel good to be 81 00:05:23.529 --> 00:05:26.769 able to help point folks in the right direction, recommend some books and some 82 00:05:26.889 --> 00:05:30.970 resources and very still is a ton of opportunity out there, though, to 83 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:32.410 those so I think this is a little bit of a shuffle now. But 84 00:05:32.490 --> 00:05:35.800 there's some other businesses. While some have kind of sunseted a little bit and 85 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:40.879 how much they need, others are expanding greatly. I've been working with a 86 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:45.680 logistics company that's gone bananas because everything is now just going through the mail right 87 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.120 so they need more bodies. So it's just kind of a shuffle. Probably 88 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:50.949 takes a month or two for that to work. It's stuff out. Yeah, 89 00:05:51.029 --> 00:05:53.870 who knows where it's going to go, but a lot of these things 90 00:05:53.910 --> 00:05:56.509 are changing and they're going to a lot of things are going to be permanent, 91 00:05:56.629 --> 00:06:00.910 just like right after the depression or World War II, things things change 92 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:04.259 dramatically. So and that change means you should keep yourself educated, and what 93 00:06:04.420 --> 00:06:08.699 other way to do that then to read books. Yes, like the perfect 94 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:12.339 clothes or listen to the marketing book podcast. That's what I was thinking. 95 00:06:12.699 --> 00:06:15.819 So let's let's talk about the ones we've got lined up for day. Okay, 96 00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:18.569 enough about us. Yeah, so first we've got the catalysts and it's 97 00:06:18.610 --> 00:06:21.769 how to change anyone's mind, by Jonah Burger, and Jonah's got some amazing 98 00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:27.050 titles. He's got invisible influence, he got contagious. In the catalyst he's 99 00:06:27.089 --> 00:06:29.810 focusing on how to influence people and change their mind. So tell us a 100 00:06:29.810 --> 00:06:31.370 little bit about your interview with John a Burger. Well, and he has 101 00:06:31.769 --> 00:06:35.639 over a million books sold, and that's just his first two books. So 102 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:40.560 not many people sell a million books. I mean the James Mirrors of the 103 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:45.920 world. Yeah, but but this book, his first two were phenomenal. 104 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:47.470 This one, I think, is I liked it even more. It was 105 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:54.470 so directly applicable and I said at the beginning of the interview that there are 106 00:06:54.509 --> 00:06:58.389 a lot of people, I hear from a lot of marketers out there particularly, 107 00:06:58.750 --> 00:07:00.589 who say, you know, I work at a company and they just 108 00:07:00.670 --> 00:07:04.379 don't get modern marketing and they didn't come up through marketing and and I just 109 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:08.500 thought, you know what, this is the book you need to read because 110 00:07:08.699 --> 00:07:13.379 you are going to need to be a change agent. The great marketers are, 111 00:07:13.819 --> 00:07:16.209 I have, great leadership skills in they're very good at managing change, 112 00:07:16.689 --> 00:07:20.089 but they do it right and this book shows you how to do it where, 113 00:07:20.370 --> 00:07:26.290 if you want to change someone's mind, instead of thinking about using force, 114 00:07:27.730 --> 00:07:31.160 like, you know, arguing with them or just simply laying out the 115 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:36.319 facts, instead think about what are barriers that you could remove. It was 116 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:46.029 just brilliant and it is super applicable to salespeople. And he talks about there's 117 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:47.990 five big sections where he talks about, you know, based on all this 118 00:07:48.149 --> 00:07:54.670 modern science and some older scientific discovery, about why people make the decisions they 119 00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:58.230 do and how they come about to change their minds. One of the things 120 00:07:58.310 --> 00:08:01.019 that he talked about that really resonated with me. There are lots and I 121 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:03.300 can only mention a few, but was this idea of reactants, Yep, 122 00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:11.899 a and see reactants, and that is that anytime a human senses that someone 123 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:16.569 is trying to persuade them, their reactants goes up like a drawbridge or a 124 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:22.449 barrier, a persuasion seeking missile shield or something like that. And he even 125 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:28.759 talked about how the tide pods challenge where a bunch of people were starting to 126 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:33.039 eat those little detergent packages and tide had spent I don't know, probably billions 127 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.360 of dollars developing the product, getting it ready, launching it, and it's 128 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.840 good product. Well, all of a sudden the only thing everyone was talking 129 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.750 about was eating tide pods and the calls to the poison control center's skyrocketing. 130 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:48.870 So they put together and add with Rob Gronkowski, who was at the time 131 00:08:50.029 --> 00:08:54.830 with the New England Patriots American football team, and it was a funny a 132 00:08:54.389 --> 00:08:58.860 kind of funny, but he was basically saying don't eat tide pods. Okay, 133 00:08:58.940 --> 00:09:01.539 let me just mention that again. are eating tide pods. Don't eat 134 00:09:01.700 --> 00:09:07.580 tide pods. Well, the problem was people start eating more of them because 135 00:09:07.580 --> 00:09:11.289 they were there. You could tell sense they were trying to persuade you not 136 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:13.129 to do them, and it's really difficult when, particularly when you're trying to 137 00:09:13.129 --> 00:09:16.409 get somebody to do something like quit smoking, you know, or something like 138 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:22.450 that. So it was anti persuasion radar that he that he talks about and 139 00:09:22.970 --> 00:09:24.879 a couple of the other things he talks about that we've seen in other books 140 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:31.080 was the status quo bias. You know, people value what they have and 141 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.720 there's this thing called loss of version and people are really, you know, 142 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.429 our cave man brains are terrified of any kind of change and people are really 143 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:43.789 attached to what they have. You know, the the inertia couch. But 144 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:48.870 what he talks about in the book is how, and again, this is 145 00:09:48.470 --> 00:09:54.820 what the really good salespeople do. They help people understand that no action is 146 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.620 actually worse, in other words, like you're standing on an Anhill, that 147 00:10:00.139 --> 00:10:05.620 you help them understand that just doing nothing is actually worse than making one of 148 00:10:05.659 --> 00:10:11.090 the different decisions. So the other thing that the third thing I want to 149 00:10:11.129 --> 00:10:15.409 mention was this idea of uncertainty. Yeah, when you were selling or your 150 00:10:15.529 --> 00:10:20.450 marketing, the more you know there's risk. You're asking someone to invest in 151 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:22.799 some sort of outcome that they don't know how it's going to be. And 152 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:31.320 he talks about uncertainty is a bigger barrier than money because it causes people to 153 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:33.639 hesitate. Yeah, not knowing what what it is. And he talks about 154 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.710 all the different ways to try to each one of these problems. He then 155 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:41.710 shows you the most effective ways to do it. But you know, there's 156 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:45.470 different road blocks. But you know, instead of trying to make a big 157 00:10:45.669 --> 00:10:48.990 change, try to make smaller changes and just try to remove figure out. 158 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:52.500 The example he gave was like, let's say you go to get in your 159 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:58.139 car and your cars parked on a hill and the parking break is on and 160 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:01.700 you get in the car and you started up and you put it in gear 161 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:05.250 and you start accelerating in nothing's working. Well, do you start accelerating even 162 00:11:05.289 --> 00:11:11.769 more, or do you instead just release the parking break? He's so great 163 00:11:11.850 --> 00:11:15.210 example. Yep, that's what how do we say at the the confused mind 164 00:11:15.289 --> 00:11:18.639 always says no, that would say it. I sales, so it's right. 165 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.759 Yeah, really great book. A lot of behavioral economics, which I'm 166 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.399 a huge found of, in this book to use it for the purposes of 167 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:28.720 influencing others. So because one takeaway was just to realize that there really is 168 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.950 a better approach to creating change than what most of us have been doing. 169 00:11:33.509 --> 00:11:37.110 And the one thing he suggested that listeners do is just, and this this 170 00:11:37.269 --> 00:11:39.590 theme will come up on all the books that we're covering this time, is 171 00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:43.509 asked questions to the folks that they're trying to influence. So we listen right 172 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:46.539 and what they're trying to do and then give them a choice between just two 173 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:50.500 options. That was of all the different choices he gave his simplify it down 174 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.419 to where there's only two choices. So I mean the catalysts as a title. 175 00:11:54.419 --> 00:11:56.980 I think it is just a metaphor that Jona burghers using to, you 176 00:11:58.059 --> 00:12:00.980 know, for us to be asient of change, and he's providing a lot 177 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:05.490 of really interesting and practical strategies for doing that. It's related to chemistry, 178 00:12:05.649 --> 00:12:09.169 where it catalysts, beeds something up rather than like, instead of using heat 179 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:13.370 or force. Yeah, I think it's a great title for what he's doing 180 00:12:13.409 --> 00:12:16.600 in the book and I think it's good for anybody that's wanting to increase the 181 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.759 level of influence. All right. Next up we've got the ICONIST, the 182 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.799 art and sciences standing out by Jamie Mustard, and this book speaks to the 183 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.120 phenomenon of information overload and how to break through that. And I notice you 184 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.509 had a little fun with editing on this interview too, so give us a 185 00:12:31.590 --> 00:12:35.590 load down on the ICONOST. Well, in that part he was talking about 186 00:12:35.750 --> 00:12:39.590 how something that becomes extremely well known and remembered has a certain amount of repetition, 187 00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:45.460 and he was talking about, for instance, Beethoven's ninth, which Beethoven 188 00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:48.980 was derided for, but it had this at work. He talks about some 189 00:12:48.019 --> 00:12:54.100 of the Michael Jackson music where right there was a certain repetition that a lot 190 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:56.980 of people are afraid to have. And it doesn't have to be musical repetition. 191 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:01.970 But this book is beautifully written and it's already one a literary award. 192 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:07.450 Yeah, and he talks about how well, first off, in the beginning 193 00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:11.289 he reminds people in ways that I haven't seen before and I thought it was 194 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:16.320 very admirable, about how crowded are media spaces. So a lot of people 195 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.039 think that, you know, you can still buy an ad and interrupt people. 196 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:26.480 Those days are over. We're so much more overwhelmed than I think people 197 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.870 realize that it's affecting other aspects of our behavior. So, you know, 198 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:35.269 getting past that, you know the information overload and standing out above the competition 199 00:13:37.389 --> 00:13:39.950 is really important. In fact, he even talks about how you don't even 200 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.059 have to be the best, you have to be good, but if you 201 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:50.179 can get people's attention and have them remember you in this era, it's you're 202 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.860 going to do much better than if you say the battle you have the best 203 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:56.330 product. You got a term for that, right, dilution. Yeah, 204 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:58.929 I, which is is information over supply. So everything becomes more diluted. 205 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:03.090 So that makes getting attention even more important than I has been in the past. 206 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:05.690 Yeah, so he's got this concept of blocks and icons that he explains 207 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:11.559 about how you have to focus. I mean you really do have to focus 208 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:13.960 and what I'm what I mean by that is stop talking about your products first. 209 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.159 He talks about you really have to focus in on what it is people 210 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.389 want. Is If they're driving down a busy highway with lots of signs and 211 00:14:24.509 --> 00:14:26.830 they're looking for the sign that is the sign that points them in the direction 212 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:31.870 they want to go, they always notice those signs because it's relevant to to 213 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:37.350 what they want. And he gave this great example in the book of this 214 00:14:37.470 --> 00:14:41.620 drug store back in the s out in I think it was out in Nebraska, 215 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:48.659 someplace out in the plane states, Wall Drug and so this husband and 216 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:50.899 wife, young folks. He inherit a bit of money. He went and 217 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.129 bought this drug store there and it was in the middle of the depression, 218 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:58.289 and so I guess it was the s the people were very, very poor 219 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.370 and they just didn't have any money to buy any of the stuff they had 220 00:15:01.370 --> 00:15:07.519 the drug store. So what they did was they said, well, what 221 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.720 do people want who are driving across the country and the hot weather? Will 222 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:18.240 they want ice water? He's what they did is they put these signs out 223 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.350 on the highway that was pretty near that with the nearest highway to where they 224 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:24.389 were, but it was still a detour they have to make and they were 225 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:30.389 just saying free ice water at wall drug. Well, before they even finished 226 00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:33.509 putting up the last sign, all these people were pulling in to get this 227 00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:37.659 free ice water and then once they were there they were buying other things and 228 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:43.820 that saved them and it became iconic and even in World War II American soldiers 229 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:48.539 were putting up wall drug signs in Europe just as a joke, sort of 230 00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:52.769 like a you know, burmis shave or Kilroy was here. So he talks 231 00:15:52.809 --> 00:15:58.649 about how to focus in more on what your customers want, and it's rarely 232 00:15:58.809 --> 00:16:03.919 what you think they want. It's usually have more of an emotional conser orn 233 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.000 that they have and you know, the more that you can focus on that, 234 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:10.159 the better you're going to do. An. He has plenty of examples 235 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:14.120 of companies that have figured out how to do this, and it's often at 236 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.399 the to the dismay of maybe the engineers or the product people who say, 237 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.149 yeah, but these are great products. That's like yeah, but they want 238 00:16:19.230 --> 00:16:25.750 free ice water. Okay, they want this stuff. Then once they're here 239 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:30.830 and you've satisfied that need, then they'll be interested in hearing more about that. 240 00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:33.179 And the other thing that he talked about in this this age, as 241 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:36.940 many, many things in the book, you talked about that you really have 242 00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:38.500 to do more so in the past. And he talks about, you know, 243 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:45.539 the importance of transparency and using well, real language, which also roun 244 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:48.009 tight talks about. We're talk about in a minute. But being transparent now 245 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:52.929 is more important than it used to be because the customers have the information and 246 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:56.649 they're very suspicious of anybody trying to, you know, sell to you, 247 00:16:57.289 --> 00:17:02.519 kind of like the last book. We just talked about it more some things 248 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.759 you noticed about the iconist. There's a couple. There's a common thread through 249 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:07.559 actually all of these, I think, and one of them is on the 250 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.759 listening side, is that his one takeaway on this thing was take one customer 251 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.150 uncover the single most important thing to that customer and then just focus on that 252 00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:21.430 in your messaging. So it's all back to this thing that we hear over 253 00:17:21.509 --> 00:17:23.869 and over again in the great books. There's just listen to what your customers 254 00:17:23.950 --> 00:17:27.549 want right and speak to that and then afterwards you can sort of land and 255 00:17:27.670 --> 00:17:30.140 expand. But that's, I think, one of the great things. I 256 00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:33.940 think in the second half of this book he's talking about how to cut through 257 00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:38.500 all of that information overload that we're getting and why is sticks in our memories 258 00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:42.220 and the stories are great throughout this whole book, really great examples all the 259 00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:47.890 way through this whole book. So I think really any business leader, artists, 260 00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:52.769 any candidate, teacher, Sales Guy, entrepreneur, almost anybody could benefit, 261 00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:55.529 I think, from what's yeah, it goes even beyond the the field 262 00:17:55.529 --> 00:18:00.880 of marketing, sales, for the even talks in there about self obsessed advertising. 263 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.119 You know how many companies talk about themselves? We this we that they're 264 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:08.359 weing all over themselves. Think about your local community bank ad or something like 265 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:14.509 that. And he talks about why this self obsessed advertising now is even more 266 00:18:14.630 --> 00:18:18.509 harmful than ten years ago. Yeah, and importance of being vulnerable right, 267 00:18:18.589 --> 00:18:22.910 and being and being real backs again too, that using real language. Yeah, 268 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.309 okay, with others. So all at all, phenomenal book really I 269 00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.460 would recommend it's almost anyone. I really great. Hey, everybody, logan 270 00:18:30.539 --> 00:18:33.339 with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the show for a while, 271 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:38.220 you know we're big proponents of putting out original, organic content on Linkedin, 272 00:18:38.619 --> 00:18:41.930 but one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is 273 00:18:42.009 --> 00:18:45.970 to easily track the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I was really 274 00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:49.529 excited when I heard about shield the other day from a connection on, you 275 00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:53.769 guessed it, linkedin. Since our team started using shield, I've loved how 276 00:18:53.890 --> 00:19:00.240 it's let us easily track and analyze the performance of our linkedin content with out 277 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.720 having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generates some dashboards 278 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:10.029 that are incredibly useful to see things like what content has been performing the best 279 00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:14.150 and what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average 280 00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.190 views proposed. I'd highly suggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting 281 00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.670 out content on Linkedin, and if you're not, you should be. It's 282 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:25.579 been a game changer for us. If you go to shield APP DOT AI 283 00:19:26.019 --> 00:19:29.299 and check out the ten day free trial, you can even use our Promo 284 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:33.420 Code B to be growth to get a twenty five percent discount. Again, 285 00:19:33.500 --> 00:19:38.049 that's shield APP DOT AI and that Promo Code is be the number to be 286 00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:41.569 growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. 287 00:19:45.849 --> 00:19:49.849 Next up, we got create togetherness, transform cells and marketing to exceed 288 00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:55.359 modern buyers, exportations and increased revenue. By Jeff Davis and me. I 289 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.279 got to think it, this book might just be the perfect book for this 290 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.640 show because it's about both sales and marketing, and you know that's and the 291 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.359 challenge of sales of marketing misalignment has been like this like decades old, and 292 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.069 so he's done a pretty good job in this book of outlining how organizations can 293 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:12.109 align their cells and marketing team. So tell us about your interview with Jeff. 294 00:20:12.150 --> 00:20:15.950 Yeah, well, it's one of my favorite topics. It really really 295 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:18.670 is anything about the intersection of sales and marketing. I just I really find 296 00:20:18.710 --> 00:20:23.059 that fascinating and I see these companies that are able to align their sales and 297 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:29.940 marketing even a little bit and they're doing really, really well. It's because 298 00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:33.619 the way the customers by now that it's changed. So there's all kinds of 299 00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:37.849 studies out there that show that companies where their sales and marketing are better aligned 300 00:20:38.450 --> 00:20:44.769 they have greater profitability and faster revenue growth. I mean, don't take my 301 00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:48.170 word for this, it's been all documented by a variety of places. And 302 00:20:48.329 --> 00:20:53.359 so he is a an engineer. He went to purdue and then he was 303 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:59.759 in sales for you know, industrial world, High Tech, all that sort 304 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.799 of thing, and then he moved into marketing. And even when he was 305 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.589 a salesperson he remembers, you know, these marketing people trying to do what 306 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:11.069 they could, but he just thought this isn't working, this isn't working, 307 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:15.509 and then everything kind of changed a few years ago where he just couldn't get 308 00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:18.339 in anymore. In other words, that the he noticed that customers were coming 309 00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:22.019 to them later and later to get information, which is a truth. You 310 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:26.099 know, think about the way my dad bought a car. Versus with the 311 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:27.539 way my wife bought a car. You know, they he went to the 312 00:21:27.579 --> 00:21:33.690 dealership first, she went there last at to get information, and so that's 313 00:21:33.730 --> 00:21:37.130 when he really started to explore and see how it really works. Well when 314 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:42.009 marketing is better aligned with sales. And there's some really rudimentary things that companies 315 00:21:42.049 --> 00:21:47.920 can be doing to get their sales and marketing better aligned. And he talks 316 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:49.480 quite a bit in that book about another book that was on the show called 317 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:56.119 aligned to achieve, where they talked about sales can't do it all own anymore 318 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.680 like they used to be able to, and marketing exist to make buying easier 319 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.950 or to make sales easier. That doesn't mean they're getting coffee for sales. 320 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:08.670 It means they're trying to make help to make selling easier. And of course 321 00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:12.150 you have to focus very much on the the customer, and he talks about 322 00:22:12.150 --> 00:22:15.710 he has all these things in the book that is like will test you can 323 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:18.539 give yourself, like how aligned are we? And of course he starts the 324 00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:23.019 book explaining why you need to be aligned. And you have an example that 325 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:27.180 you mentioned before we started recording about how somebody might have downloaded something from a 326 00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:32.769 website and then a salesperson calls and follows up to mention that. Yeah, 327 00:22:32.849 --> 00:22:36.569 so I have a customer or they download something based on a whole a white 328 00:22:36.609 --> 00:22:38.970 paper based on different challenges that they might have, and then when they hand 329 00:22:40.009 --> 00:22:41.049 it over to the sales guy. The sales guy asked them, will tell 330 00:22:41.089 --> 00:22:45.079 me your top challenge, and yet we should have already been able to communicate 331 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.160 that to the salesperson based on the white paper that was download we have insight 332 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.480 into what the customers interested in. Based on the new digital world that we're 333 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:56.480 in. We can see where they're going on the website. We can see 334 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:02.150 what they're interested in beforehand and that takes us closer to be able to deliver 335 00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:04.509 some kind of insight when it's finally handed over to sales. Yeah, you 336 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:10.230 know, he talks in the book about whether they're a companies going to be 337 00:23:10.230 --> 00:23:11.549 able to get their sales and marketing aligned, and the other was he knows. 338 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:17.900 He knows our yeah, it's hard and if there isn't CEO buy in, 339 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:22.220 he doesn't even take the job anymore because, hey, he's busy and 340 00:23:22.339 --> 00:23:26.579 he's good, but also he knows that it does an end well and it's 341 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:27.609 not going to work. In other words, if there's just sort of dolling 342 00:23:27.769 --> 00:23:33.490 or playing around with aligning sales and marketing, it's a cultural change for companies, 343 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:37.730 particularly ones that are more sales dominated. And what's interesting is that the 344 00:23:37.809 --> 00:23:40.529 book, I think, is only like a hundred pages. He could have 345 00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:42.279 written. He said he could have written a book twice that size, but 346 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:48.680 he wrote it a hundred pages so that a CEO could get on a flight 347 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.160 and finish it and understand and have just enough to get started, to understand 348 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.670 why this needs to be a priority. Yep, and that's one of the 349 00:23:56.710 --> 00:24:00.630 important things, is that the executives who are going to be sponsors have to 350 00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:06.950 recognize it. It's important question for you. He recommends that marketing and sales 351 00:24:07.029 --> 00:24:11.660 share a revenue goal. So and that's not all that common. It's more 352 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:12.539 common now, I think, than the year has passed. But what's your 353 00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:17.220 take on assigning a revenue goal to marketing? Well, I agree. I 354 00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:25.609 think minimum it needs to be activities that contribute to revenue and other words focus 355 00:24:25.769 --> 00:24:29.089 on revenue, get everybody on the same page. And in fact there's some 356 00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:33.170 companies like get hup spot, I believe, where they just have a director 357 00:24:33.210 --> 00:24:36.769 of revenue and sales and marketing reporting to them. They know which yeah, 358 00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:41.599 they know which levers to pull to generate revenue, and so I think it's 359 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.400 a good idea and it really you know, it's there's also some really practical 360 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:49.200 things like have a meat on a regular basis, marketers go on sales calls 361 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.589 on a a gular basis, sit in the same place, if you can 362 00:24:52.829 --> 00:24:59.710 have weekly meetings and also have salespeople rotate through marketing to have them better understand 363 00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:03.710 what they are capable of doing to help sales. So I think it's a 364 00:25:03.750 --> 00:25:08.380 good idea. I think that rather than a generating leads, you know, 365 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.859 just generating leads, that's where a lot of companies get it wrong. Instead 366 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:15.579 of saying look, we generated these leads. Yeah, but the leads might 367 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:22.490 be weak. Why don't you focus instead on some pipeline metrics like sales accepted 368 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:25.569 leads? You know, maybe it's a smaller number, but it gets the 369 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:32.450 marketing folks to be better and tuned with WHO's buying and what is more relevant 370 00:25:32.450 --> 00:25:36.480 to what is closer to revenue. Yeah, and that speaks to his he's 371 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.240 got these three processes or pillars. He calls them, data, process and 372 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.839 communication, and the data side this spends a little time talking about the ideal 373 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.200 customer profile, which, if we could send a bunch of leads, right, 374 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:48.400 but they might be weekly, as if they're not to our ideal customer 375 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.430 profile. So that's a little bit that he's speaking to and there about that. 376 00:25:52.829 --> 00:25:56.950 Yeah, that's another real obvious one. Where have marketing and sales sat 377 00:25:56.029 --> 00:26:00.190 down and identified what an ideal customer profile is? Now, if the CEO 378 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:03.190 says anyone with a pulse, you're in trouble. You need to update your 379 00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:10.619 resident but even just having that first conversation about what's an ideal customer profile, 380 00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:14.220 and here's a little tip, ask what their worst customers are. I always 381 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:17.059 get a quick answer. What customers would you like to fire? which ones 382 00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:21.130 are not profitable and and don't? Don't just at revenues, look at profitability. 383 00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:25.089 Get your CFO involved, find out who are a most profitable customers, 384 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:30.450 because it's really about profits more than revenues in most instances, and then start 385 00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:33.240 to zero in on who is it that gets the most out of our products 386 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.559 and services. You know, who are the ones that refer others, who 387 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:41.279 continues to buy more? There's another great question for aligning sales and marketing is 388 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.599 having everyone understand the customer lifetime value. So many companies don't think about that, 389 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.029 at least the ones I talked to. I'll say to how long do 390 00:26:48.069 --> 00:26:51.430 you keep your customers? They go, Oh, maybe ten or twenty years, 391 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:52.069 and how much do you sell to him? And they'll give me some 392 00:26:52.109 --> 00:26:56.029 number and I'm multiply that by twenty and they're like, Gosh, I never 393 00:26:56.150 --> 00:27:00.630 thought of it that way. It's surprising and it's such a high lever's channel. 394 00:27:00.390 --> 00:27:04.460 So so his one takeaway on this one is just to realize that digital 395 00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:08.619 has completely changed to buy or seller relationship and that we just gotta stop selling 396 00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:11.819 the way we've always been selling in the past. And again this will sound 397 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.450 familiar, is one thing is to do what you just said is sit down 398 00:27:15.769 --> 00:27:19.009 the and he's kind of directing this at marketer. So this particularly take away 399 00:27:19.049 --> 00:27:23.730 that he offered is sit down with your sales team on their calls and listen, 400 00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:26.210 listen to what's happening here, what's going on, and then have a 401 00:27:26.289 --> 00:27:30.920 conversation with them and what's you ask them what's happening, because he gives you 402 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.400 their perspective about what's going on. So again it's about listening to your customers, 403 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.119 but in this case, you know it's each other's departments. So I 404 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.400 think this book could be good for any CEO. I think that's what it's 405 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.039 designed for. It's very salient and very easy to read. One probably a 406 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.230 one sitting read Yep. All right, last time. We've got to think. 407 00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:49.390 Do say how to seize at tension and build trust in a busy, 408 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:52.430 busy world by run tight, and I don't know if you've heard him speak, 409 00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:56.269 but run tight is extremely entertaining. He's very funny guy and I think 410 00:27:56.309 --> 00:27:59.900 this book is also very enlightening. So tell us a little bit about think 411 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:03.259 Du say in your interview with Ron yes and notice you mentioned a busy, 412 00:28:03.339 --> 00:28:06.539 busy world like wow, overwhelmed consumers. I think there may be a theme 413 00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:07.900 here, James, I. I know the whole thing right. I mean 414 00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:12.529 it's like also the whole and that's for it's beautifully written and it's also really 415 00:28:12.769 --> 00:28:17.849 funny. And I mean he's a funny guy, but he'sn't has these quotes 416 00:28:18.250 --> 00:28:21.210 going through the book like you might see in a book, but they're completely 417 00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.640 made up. It's like Winston Churchill talking about five gen networks and Marie Curry 418 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.920 talking about social media. It's but they don't reveal the joke until the end. 419 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.440 So one thing he talked about in the beginning that I you know, 420 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.599 I steal so much from these books in terms of trying to explain things to 421 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:45.789 others or clients or whatever. And he talks about Time Square. Anyone who's 422 00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.950 been there they know that Times Square is a very busy, almost information overloaded 423 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:53.509 place. Time Square is now in your pocket. He said Time Square is 424 00:28:53.549 --> 00:29:00.339 in Kentucky. Time Square is everywhere, because people are so overwhelmed, they're 425 00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:08.099 increasingly mistrustful and they're looking for guidance and he just has so many things. 426 00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:12.730 Reading his book makes me want to go see him. That a live key 427 00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:15.529 and I've only put out. Oh Yeah, he's I've only been able to 428 00:29:15.609 --> 00:29:21.529 see videos of him. And it's also another example of something that I've noticed 429 00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:25.400 in hundreds of books that have been on the show that people who are really 430 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.599 spectacular professional speakers always seem to have the best books, and I think it's 431 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.839 because they practice the good podcast interviews. Yes, absolutely, I'm lucky to 432 00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:40.430 have them on the show and well, the thing is they will test out 433 00:29:40.470 --> 00:29:45.789 this material over the years and they know what works and they even introduced into 434 00:29:45.829 --> 00:29:52.269 their writing a sense of timing and pacing to keep the people engaged. So 435 00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:59.140 in the book he inditian to mentioning that we're completely overwhelmed. He then went 436 00:29:59.180 --> 00:30:02.940 into this explanation of something and I'm not sure he said that he came up 437 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:04.460 with this. He was being very careful not to make it look like he 438 00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:08.769 came up. But there's this thing called a pitch slap, and that's where 439 00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:14.210 somebody connects with you on social media. Think about like linked in, for 440 00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:17.690 instance. I get these every day and they you maybe you connect with them 441 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:21.920 and then they start pitching you and it's sexy thing, you know. Yeah, 442 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.200 and it's sort of and it's not just there, it's it's in real 443 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.559 life and it's like this. Oh, he just talks about these omnipresent pitch 444 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:32.880 slap the OPS, the omnipresent pitch slap. Well, he talks about that 445 00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:37.470 because it doesn't work and it's not a it's not a, you know, 446 00:30:37.990 --> 00:30:40.910 a very good idea. But there were just so many things in the book 447 00:30:40.950 --> 00:30:44.549 where he talks about how people used to vote with their wallet and now they 448 00:30:44.630 --> 00:30:48.670 vote with their time and attention, and it's that inside that. Yeah, 449 00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:53.099 it's even more that's even more valuable than money. And again I you know, 450 00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:56.619 trying to explain to companies where they'll say, well, we're going to. 451 00:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.980 It's some form of communication. I want to be talking about our products 452 00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:03.980 and our services, and it's like, how do you tell these folks? 453 00:31:03.609 --> 00:31:10.089 How do you help them discover what they're up against here? And even like 454 00:31:10.170 --> 00:31:11.930 the CEO of a company I might have been talking to, you know, 455 00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:18.490 his mom loves him, but even she doesn't care about things that he wants 456 00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:21.759 to talk about. You know, people want to talk about their own selves 457 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.480 and their own problems. So but he also goes on to talk about, 458 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.680 you know, doing what you say you're going to do, acting with integrity, 459 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.710 hiring the right kind of people, you know, believing in something, 460 00:31:33.750 --> 00:31:37.109 and that's very powerful. If you sense that there's a higher purpose that your 461 00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:41.430 company has, it actually helps you from a strategic standpoint in terms of you 462 00:31:41.509 --> 00:31:45.869 know what you should do and and what you shouldn't. But it also the 463 00:31:45.950 --> 00:31:48.940 customers really like it. And there was one other I'm just going to pick 464 00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:52.859 out one other thing from the from the book he talked about, which was 465 00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:56.900 so important I wish everyone would understand it. He talks about bench marking, 466 00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:02.170 and that's where, if you're benchmarking against your own competition, okay, you 467 00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:06.329 can do that. But that better not be the driver of what you're doing 468 00:32:06.730 --> 00:32:09.730 for a couple reasons. One, you might have really crappy competitors, so 469 00:32:10.289 --> 00:32:15.839 don't feel too good about yourself. But also there's people who are having other 470 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.319 experiences. Like, you know, there's the Amazon effect where when something is 471 00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.839 introduced, like a new idea of like sending an email after you've ordered something 472 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.119 to let him know that it's on the way. Well, if you're not, 473 00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:29.880 if everyone's not doing that way, regardless of whether your competition is or 474 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:32.269 not, it doesn't matter. You've got the wrong benchmarks. Yeah, it's 475 00:32:32.269 --> 00:32:37.710 table sticks. And so you know, Gillette and chick were are there razor 476 00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:42.950 companies and in a now when we beating up on the big companies because they 477 00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:45.059 they're trying to get economies of scales and there it's hard. It's hard for 478 00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:49.700 them to make these things, but they you could argue that they weren't ready 479 00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:52.220 for Dollar Shave Club. They were focusing on each other and the way that 480 00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:57.819 they were distributed. And of course those companies still need to be careful about 481 00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:00.809 how they they have to protect their distribution channels when something like dollar Shave Club 482 00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:06.890 comes along and completely upends that you could argue that, whether that's true with 483 00:33:06.970 --> 00:33:10.289 them or not, that's an example of where companies are only looking at their 484 00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:15.559 competitors and not looking at the friction in their customers lives to figure out how 485 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.160 they can innovate. Yep, and in that sense this book has a quite 486 00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.799 a bit on innovation there towards the end that I really liked. Right and 487 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.599 need to how the importance of looking outside the category that you're in in order 488 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:30.710 to disrupt. Yeah, yeah, it was fascinating and and it was a 489 00:33:30.750 --> 00:33:34.029 lot of fun and he had a terrible cold when I interviewed him, but 490 00:33:34.109 --> 00:33:37.349 he's such a pro he didn't you couldn't tell. You couldn't tell, you 491 00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:42.099 couldn't tell. What is one takeaway was to be personally accountable and take care 492 00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:45.500 of your own universe first, and the one thing he thought that listeners could 493 00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:47.339 do is to just think about what you're going to do the next six months 494 00:33:47.420 --> 00:33:50.579 and then just pick one thing from the book, because there's quite a few 495 00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:52.380 things in there, and and think about how you're going to reinforce that. 496 00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:57.089 So I really enjoyed the book. I think Ron's extremely entertaining. I'd say 497 00:33:57.089 --> 00:34:00.569 this is a must read. For any marketing or advertising professional. I think 498 00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:04.970 it clearly explains everything you need to do to define your brand and share it 499 00:34:05.009 --> 00:34:07.049 with the world, even though there's a lot of noise out there. Yes, 500 00:34:07.130 --> 00:34:09.840 and actually, just a few days after I interviewed him, his wife 501 00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:14.360 had their second child. So that's the second time where I've been interviewing an 502 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.519 author, although Ron didnss of burse a trend. Yes, I think I 503 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.199 seem to be inducing Labor in the families of the authors that I speak to. 504 00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.269 But congratulations to Mr and Mrs tied on the new addition. Hope all 505 00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:29.230 is going well for them. Yes, well, as always, I learn 506 00:34:29.269 --> 00:34:30.909 a lot from this. Must Books, really stellar selections. As time to 507 00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:34.869 tell us about the new books you've got coming up on the marketing book podcast 508 00:34:35.269 --> 00:34:40.820 for more for the next round. And the books are the context marketing revolution. 509 00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:46.420 How to motivate buyers in the age of infinite media by Matthew Sweezy. 510 00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:52.130 Hey, another book. Yeah, talking overload. Great Book. Matthew sweezy 511 00:34:52.210 --> 00:34:58.170 works for sales force. The next book is sizing people up. A veteran 512 00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:05.769 FBI agents user manual for behavior prediction by Robin Drake. Owning game change subcategories 513 00:35:05.849 --> 00:35:09.880 uncommon growth in the digital age by David Ocker, who's considered to be the 514 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.920 world renowned expert on brand and branding. But, excuse me, brand strategy, 515 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.670 not not logos, for those who don't know what that means. More 516 00:35:21.750 --> 00:35:23.630 it was a more of a business strategy book and it is really good. 517 00:35:24.070 --> 00:35:29.550 And the last one is restoring the soul of business, staying human in the 518 00:35:29.630 --> 00:35:32.989 age of data, by Rashad Tobacca Wala. All of those sound awesome. 519 00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:37.300 Actually, I'm excited about they are. They are. I am the luckiest 520 00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:39.300 podcaster in the world that I get to read these books and interview these folks. 521 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:43.059 Well, that's it for this month's be to be growth show. Book 522 00:35:43.099 --> 00:35:46.420 talked. To learn more about the marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book Podcastcom, 523 00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:50.690 and to learn more about James and his excellent book, which is one 524 00:35:50.730 --> 00:35:55.570 of my favorites, the perfect close, visit pure mirror. That's spelled purem 525 00:35:55.769 --> 00:36:02.489 you. I arecom and James. The last time we had the episode of 526 00:36:04.010 --> 00:36:07.840 the Book Talk There when there's no plague. Yeah, we talked about where 527 00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:12.280 we were going to be speaking soon. Well, we take all that back. 528 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.480 Yeah, everything serious. Thanks make canceled. I was going to be 529 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.989 off in Ohio and all these other plays all all off. So I don't 530 00:36:19.989 --> 00:36:22.590 have anything scheduled and I think a lot of speakers, I know they don't 531 00:36:22.630 --> 00:36:25.750 have anything schedule for the rest of the year. But you are still going 532 00:36:25.750 --> 00:36:30.230 to be doing some speaking, it's just going to be virtuals at right yeah, 533 00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:31.900 yeah, some of the events have turned into visual events and others have 534 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:35.900 been pushed out far enough that we'll just have to wait and see what happens 535 00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:38.420 with the covid nineteen to see where that goes. But you never know. 536 00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:43.659 I still maybe in DC in the summer and and outbound has been moved to 537 00:36:43.900 --> 00:36:46.690 August, but we're crossing our fingers that things will look good in August for 538 00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:51.210 that. And then the relationship marketing grand summit, which is on September. 539 00:36:51.210 --> 00:36:53.610 Eight has been converted to a virtual event and we're seeing that a lot. 540 00:36:54.130 --> 00:36:58.289 So stay tuned. So, as I mentioned earlier, if either of US 541 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:01.039 can recommend a specific sales or marketing book or the resource for whatever situation you 542 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:05.920 find yourself in, connect with us on linkedin where we can chat and we'll 543 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.920 do our best to get you pointed in the right direction and hopefully save you 544 00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:15.469 time. I hope everybody stays healthy and safe and was able to hang on 545 00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:21.710 during this really crazy time and remember keep learning, because these days the big 546 00:37:21.829 --> 00:37:30.659 learners are the big earners. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners 547 00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:34.380 for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously 548 00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:37.980 helpful when you're trying to grow podcast audience. So here's what we decided to 549 00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:40.300 do. If you leave a review for me to be growth in apple podcasts 550 00:37:40.539 --> 00:37:45.650 and email me a screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, 551 00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:49.690 I'll send you assigned copy of my new book, content based networking, how 552 00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:52.969 to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, 553 00:37:52.010 --> 00:37:54.170 you get a free book. We both win.