Transcript
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Hello and welcome to the B Tob
Growth Show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas
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Burdett, hosts of the market book
podcast, where each week I published an
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interview with the author of a new
marketing or sales book to help me and
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my listeners keep up with the latest
ideas in the pretty quickly changing world of
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marketing and sales. Joining me is
my friend James Mure, author of the
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perfect close, the secret to closing
sales, the best selling practices and techniques
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for closing the deal. In this
monthly episode of the B Tob Growth Show
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we recap some of the key ideas
from the marketing and sales books that were
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recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on the
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Market Book Podcast, but James Reads
even more books than I do and he
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listens to every episode of the Market
Book Podcast. So I'm delighted that he
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can join me and if either of
US can ever recommend any marketing or sales
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books or other resources for whatever situation
you find yourself in, please feel free
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to connect with us on linkedin where
we can chat and we'll do our best
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to point you in the right direction. James Welcome back to the BE TOB
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growth show. Book Talk. Thank
you, Douglas, your two kinds.
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We're always here to help. Right. It's right. In this episode we're
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going to talk about four recent books
featured on the marketing book podcast, which
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are the catalyst. How to change
anyone's mind, by Jona Burger, also
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the iconist, the art and science
of standing out by Jamie mustard, create
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togetherness, transform sales and marketing to
exceed modern virus expectations and increase revenue by
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Jeff Davis and finally, think do
say, how to see his attention and
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build trust in a busy, busy
world by run tight. But before we
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hit the books, I got to
hear about what's happening from the quarantine.
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What's happening at Fort Burdette? Well, so, every nobody's in the office
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now. We're all working from home. I've been going into the office on
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every Friday just to check, check
the mail. I mean the place is
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empty, and I also that's when
I record my usually record my episodes of
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the marketing book podcast. That seems
to be going along. Got Some clients
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that are kind of fading out and
another big one that's heart charging right ahead.
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So we'll see. I have no
idea and I am very wary of
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folks that predict with a great degree
of certainty. My daughter, my younger,
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she came home from spring break in
college. She's a senior in college.
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She got here and two to three
days later she got a message from
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the university saying don't come back.
Oh, and and then they bought a
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couple days later they said we can't
do the graduation either. They said they're
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going to do everything through like zoom
and so forth. And so she's here.
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She's doing a lot of, you
know, homework, she's taking our
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comprehensive exams. Actually, she's gone
into my office because your office. Yeah,
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well, because got a good internet
and a lot of space and nobody
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bothering there like here in the house. And so she's disappointed that that all
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kind of ended. She felt a
little bit robbed. Is it really the
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same when you throw your hat in
front of the Zoom Camera? Im not
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sure that it's the same. I
don't think so. Yeah, probably not.
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So, yeah, that's kind of
disappointed. She goes to a school
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with it a lot of great traditions
and she was, you know, really
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looking forward to wrapping things up and
she had been president of the student government
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to so she was really very attached
to the school and did quite well there.
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And then my son, who's just
a little bit older, who's actually
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been he's still living at home,
when it's great to have him home,
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although he's never around much. He's
an EMT and he's a fulltime emt and
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then he's also a member of the
Virginia Beach Volunteer Rescue Squad and my wife
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was very concerned about him bringing the
virus home. You know, tough because
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we he's out there doing a really
important work and then we're worried about him
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getting sick and it's just a lot
of people are dealing with that. But
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then today he was moving all his
stuff out and I said what the Heck's
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going on? He said, well, police hotels at the Virginia Beachoch in
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front or empty. So they've offered
course, they've offered the medical professionals.
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So he's for the least for the
next month. He's got a nice hotel
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room overlooking a lot of goes.
Sweet got the right it's got a kitchen
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in it and everything. So he
took an advantage of that. Because he
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was concerned about, you know,
risking bringing home the virus. So that's
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kind of the the story there.
What about you? What's going on in
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Kassamure? Everything has gone remote.
So all the training we do, all
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the meetings we do, all happening
remote. But we were doing a lot
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of that before anyway, and so
it wasn't that bigod change. I would
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say running a workshop remotely is it's
just not quite the same because the reaction
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that you get from the audiences,
you're not connecting with them on a facetoface
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basis and you know, though you're
on camera, just doesn't feel like you're
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connecting the same. So it's about
it's about fifty percent as good, but
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we are shugging on and most of
your son's back at the house now.
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That's right. Both are quarantined and
here at the House. One actually got
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laid off, so we will see
where that lands. He's going to do
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video work for me, though,
so it's my gain, their loss.
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But yeah, elsewise, everything is
everything is good, mostly business as usual.
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So most everything I do can still
be done remote. Well, good,
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and I'm sorry to hear about your
son getting laid off. I've heard
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from a lot of listeners to the
market we podcast about how suddenly they've been
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laid off and they're asking me like, Oh, what should I do?
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What could I be reading? And
it really makes me feel good to be
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able to help point folks in the
right direction, recommend some books and some
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resources and very still is a ton
of opportunity out there, though, to
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those so I think this is a
little bit of a shuffle now. But
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there's some other businesses. While some
have kind of sunseted a little bit and
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how much they need, others are
expanding greatly. I've been working with a
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logistics company that's gone bananas because everything
is now just going through the mail right
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so they need more bodies. So
it's just kind of a shuffle. Probably
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takes a month or two for that
to work. It's stuff out. Yeah,
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who knows where it's going to go, but a lot of these things
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are changing and they're going to a
lot of things are going to be permanent,
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just like right after the depression or
World War II, things things change
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dramatically. So and that change means
you should keep yourself educated, and what
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other way to do that then to
read books. Yes, like the perfect
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clothes or listen to the marketing book
podcast. That's what I was thinking.
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So let's let's talk about the ones
we've got lined up for day. Okay,
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enough about us. Yeah, so
first we've got the catalysts and it's
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how to change anyone's mind, by
Jonah Burger, and Jonah's got some amazing
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titles. He's got invisible influence,
he got contagious. In the catalyst he's
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focusing on how to influence people and
change their mind. So tell us a
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little bit about your interview with John
a Burger. Well, and he has
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over a million books sold, and
that's just his first two books. So
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not many people sell a million books. I mean the James Mirrors of the
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world. Yeah, but but this
book, his first two were phenomenal.
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This one, I think, is
I liked it even more. It was
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so directly applicable and I said at
the beginning of the interview that there are
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a lot of people, I hear
from a lot of marketers out there particularly,
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who say, you know, I
work at a company and they just
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don't get modern marketing and they didn't
come up through marketing and and I just
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thought, you know what, this
is the book you need to read because
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you are going to need to be
a change agent. The great marketers are,
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I have, great leadership skills in
they're very good at managing change,
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but they do it right and this
book shows you how to do it where,
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if you want to change someone's mind, instead of thinking about using force,
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like, you know, arguing with
them or just simply laying out the
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facts, instead think about what are
barriers that you could remove. It was
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just brilliant and it is super applicable
to salespeople. And he talks about there's
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five big sections where he talks about, you know, based on all this
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modern science and some older scientific discovery, about why people make the decisions they
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do and how they come about to
change their minds. One of the things
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that he talked about that really resonated
with me. There are lots and I
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can only mention a few, but
was this idea of reactants, Yep,
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a and see reactants, and that
is that anytime a human senses that someone
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is trying to persuade them, their
reactants goes up like a drawbridge or a
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barrier, a persuasion seeking missile shield
or something like that. And he even
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talked about how the tide pods challenge
where a bunch of people were starting to
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eat those little detergent packages and tide
had spent I don't know, probably billions
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of dollars developing the product, getting
it ready, launching it, and it's
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good product. Well, all of
a sudden the only thing everyone was talking
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about was eating tide pods and the
calls to the poison control center's skyrocketing.
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So they put together and add with
Rob Gronkowski, who was at the time
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with the New England Patriots American football
team, and it was a funny a
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kind of funny, but he was
basically saying don't eat tide pods. Okay,
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let me just mention that again.
are eating tide pods. Don't eat
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tide pods. Well, the problem
was people start eating more of them because
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they were there. You could tell
sense they were trying to persuade you not
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to do them, and it's really
difficult when, particularly when you're trying to
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get somebody to do something like quit
smoking, you know, or something like
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that. So it was anti persuasion
radar that he that he talks about and
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a couple of the other things he
talks about that we've seen in other books
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was the status quo bias. You
know, people value what they have and
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there's this thing called loss of version
and people are really, you know,
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our cave man brains are terrified of
any kind of change and people are really
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attached to what they have. You
know, the the inertia couch. But
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what he talks about in the book
is how, and again, this is
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what the really good salespeople do.
They help people understand that no action is
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actually worse, in other words,
like you're standing on an Anhill, that
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you help them understand that just doing
nothing is actually worse than making one of
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the different decisions. So the other
thing that the third thing I want to
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mention was this idea of uncertainty.
Yeah, when you were selling or your
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marketing, the more you know there's
risk. You're asking someone to invest in
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some sort of outcome that they don't
know how it's going to be. And
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he talks about uncertainty is a bigger
barrier than money because it causes people to
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hesitate. Yeah, not knowing what
what it is. And he talks about
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all the different ways to try to
each one of these problems. He then
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shows you the most effective ways to
do it. But you know, there's
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different road blocks. But you know, instead of trying to make a big
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change, try to make smaller changes
and just try to remove figure out.
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The example he gave was like,
let's say you go to get in your
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car and your cars parked on a
hill and the parking break is on and
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you get in the car and you
started up and you put it in gear
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and you start accelerating in nothing's working. Well, do you start accelerating even
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more, or do you instead just
release the parking break? He's so great
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example. Yep, that's what how
do we say at the the confused mind
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always says no, that would say
it. I sales, so it's right.
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Yeah, really great book. A
lot of behavioral economics, which I'm
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a huge found of, in this
book to use it for the purposes of
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influencing others. So because one takeaway
was just to realize that there really is
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a better approach to creating change than
what most of us have been doing.
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And the one thing he suggested that
listeners do is just, and this this
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theme will come up on all the
books that we're covering this time, is
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asked questions to the folks that they're
trying to influence. So we listen right
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and what they're trying to do and
then give them a choice between just two
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options. That was of all the
different choices he gave his simplify it down
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to where there's only two choices.
So I mean the catalysts as a title.
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I think it is just a metaphor
that Jona burghers using to, you
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know, for us to be asient
of change, and he's providing a lot
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of really interesting and practical strategies for
doing that. It's related to chemistry,
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where it catalysts, beeds something up
rather than like, instead of using heat
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or force. Yeah, I think
it's a great title for what he's doing
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in the book and I think it's
good for anybody that's wanting to increase the
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level of influence. All right.
Next up we've got the ICONIST, the
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art and sciences standing out by Jamie
Mustard, and this book speaks to the
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phenomenon of information overload and how to
break through that. And I notice you
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had a little fun with editing on
this interview too, so give us a
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load down on the ICONOST. Well, in that part he was talking about
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how something that becomes extremely well known
and remembered has a certain amount of repetition,
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and he was talking about, for
instance, Beethoven's ninth, which Beethoven
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was derided for, but it had
this at work. He talks about some
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of the Michael Jackson music where right
there was a certain repetition that a lot
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of people are afraid to have.
And it doesn't have to be musical repetition.
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But this book is beautifully written and
it's already one a literary award.
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Yeah, and he talks about how
well, first off, in the beginning
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he reminds people in ways that I
haven't seen before and I thought it was
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very admirable, about how crowded are
media spaces. So a lot of people
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think that, you know, you
can still buy an ad and interrupt people.
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Those days are over. We're so
much more overwhelmed than I think people
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realize that it's affecting other aspects of
our behavior. So, you know,
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getting past that, you know the
information overload and standing out above the competition
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is really important. In fact,
he even talks about how you don't even
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have to be the best, you
have to be good, but if you
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can get people's attention and have them
remember you in this era, it's you're
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going to do much better than if
you say the battle you have the best
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product. You got a term for
that, right, dilution. Yeah,
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I, which is is information over
supply. So everything becomes more diluted.
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So that makes getting attention even more
important than I has been in the past.
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Yeah, so he's got this concept
of blocks and icons that he explains
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about how you have to focus.
I mean you really do have to focus
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and what I'm what I mean by
that is stop talking about your products first.
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He talks about you really have to
focus in on what it is people
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want. Is If they're driving down
a busy highway with lots of signs and
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they're looking for the sign that is
the sign that points them in the direction
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they want to go, they always
notice those signs because it's relevant to to
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what they want. And he gave
this great example in the book of this
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drug store back in the s out
in I think it was out in Nebraska,
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someplace out in the plane states,
Wall Drug and so this husband and
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wife, young folks. He inherit
a bit of money. He went and
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bought this drug store there and it
was in the middle of the depression,
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and so I guess it was the
s the people were very, very poor
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and they just didn't have any money
to buy any of the stuff they had
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the drug store. So what they
did was they said, well, what
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do people want who are driving across
the country and the hot weather? Will
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they want ice water? He's what
they did is they put these signs out
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on the highway that was pretty near
that with the nearest highway to where they
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were, but it was still a
detour they have to make and they were
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just saying free ice water at wall
drug. Well, before they even finished
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putting up the last sign, all
these people were pulling in to get this
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free ice water and then once they
were there they were buying other things and
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that saved them and it became iconic
and even in World War II American soldiers
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were putting up wall drug signs in
Europe just as a joke, sort of
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like a you know, burmis shave
or Kilroy was here. So he talks
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about how to focus in more on
what your customers want, and it's rarely
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what you think they want. It's
usually have more of an emotional conser orn
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that they have and you know,
the more that you can focus on that,
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the better you're going to do.
An. He has plenty of examples
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of companies that have figured out how
to do this, and it's often at
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the to the dismay of maybe the
engineers or the product people who say,
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yeah, but these are great products. That's like yeah, but they want
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free ice water. Okay, they
want this stuff. Then once they're here
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and you've satisfied that need, then
they'll be interested in hearing more about that.
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And the other thing that he talked
about in this this age, as
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many, many things in the book, you talked about that you really have
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to do more so in the past. And he talks about, you know,
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the importance of transparency and using well, real language, which also roun
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tight talks about. We're talk about
in a minute. But being transparent now
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is more important than it used to
be because the customers have the information and
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they're very suspicious of anybody trying to, you know, sell to you,
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kind of like the last book.
We just talked about it more some things
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you noticed about the iconist. There's
a couple. There's a common thread through
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actually all of these, I think, and one of them is on the
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listening side, is that his one
takeaway on this thing was take one customer
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uncover the single most important thing to
that customer and then just focus on that
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in your messaging. So it's all
back to this thing that we hear over
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and over again in the great books. There's just listen to what your customers
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want right and speak to that and
then afterwards you can sort of land and
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expand. But that's, I think, one of the great things. I
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think in the second half of this
book he's talking about how to cut through
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all of that information overload that we're
getting and why is sticks in our memories
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and the stories are great throughout this
whole book, really great examples all the
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way through this whole book. So
I think really any business leader, artists,
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any candidate, teacher, Sales Guy, entrepreneur, almost anybody could benefit,
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I think, from what's yeah,
it goes even beyond the the field
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of marketing, sales, for the
even talks in there about self obsessed advertising.
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You know how many companies talk about
themselves? We this we that they're
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weing all over themselves. Think about
your local community bank ad or something like
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that. And he talks about why
this self obsessed advertising now is even more
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harmful than ten years ago. Yeah, and importance of being vulnerable right,
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and being and being real backs again
too, that using real language. Yeah,
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okay, with others. So all
at all, phenomenal book really I
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would recommend it's almost anyone. I
really great. Hey, everybody, logan
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with sweet fish here. If you've
been listening to the show for a while,
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you know we're big proponents of putting
out original, organic content on Linkedin,
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but one thing that's always been a
struggle for a team like ours is
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00:18:42.009 --> 00:18:45.970
to easily track the reach of that
linkedin content. That's why I was really
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00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:49.529
excited when I heard about shield the
other day from a connection on, you
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00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:53.769
guessed it, linkedin. Since our
team started using shield, I've loved how
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00:18:53.890 --> 00:19:00.240
it's let us easily track and analyze
the performance of our linkedin content with out
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00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.720
having to manually log it ourselves.
It automatically creates reports and generates some dashboards
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00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:10.029
that are incredibly useful to see things
like what content has been performing the best
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00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:14.150
and what days of the week are
we getting the most engagement and our average
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00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.190
views proposed. I'd highly suggest you
guys check out this tool if you're putting
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00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.670
out content on Linkedin, and if
you're not, you should be. It's
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been a game changer for us.
If you go to shield APP DOT AI
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and check out the ten day free
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that's shield APP DOT AI and that
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growth. All one word. All
right, let's get back to the show.
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Next up, we got create togetherness, transform cells and marketing to exceed
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modern buyers, exportations and increased revenue. By Jeff Davis and me. I
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got to think it, this book
might just be the perfect book for this
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show because it's about both sales and
marketing, and you know that's and the
291
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challenge of sales of marketing misalignment has
been like this like decades old, and
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so he's done a pretty good job
in this book of outlining how organizations can
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align their cells and marketing team.
So tell us about your interview with Jeff.
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Yeah, well, it's one of
my favorite topics. It really really
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is anything about the intersection of sales
and marketing. I just I really find
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that fascinating and I see these companies
that are able to align their sales and
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marketing even a little bit and they're
doing really, really well. It's because
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the way the customers by now that
it's changed. So there's all kinds of
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studies out there that show that companies
where their sales and marketing are better aligned
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they have greater profitability and faster revenue
growth. I mean, don't take my
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word for this, it's been all
documented by a variety of places. And
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so he is a an engineer.
He went to purdue and then he was
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in sales for you know, industrial
world, High Tech, all that sort
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of thing, and then he moved
into marketing. And even when he was
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a salesperson he remembers, you know, these marketing people trying to do what
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they could, but he just thought
this isn't working, this isn't working,
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and then everything kind of changed a
few years ago where he just couldn't get
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in anymore. In other words,
that the he noticed that customers were coming
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to them later and later to get
information, which is a truth. You
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know, think about the way my
dad bought a car. Versus with the
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way my wife bought a car.
You know, they he went to the
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dealership first, she went there last
at to get information, and so that's
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when he really started to explore and
see how it really works. Well when
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marketing is better aligned with sales.
And there's some really rudimentary things that companies
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can be doing to get their sales
and marketing better aligned. And he talks
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quite a bit in that book about
another book that was on the show called
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aligned to achieve, where they talked
about sales can't do it all own anymore
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like they used to be able to, and marketing exist to make buying easier
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or to make sales easier. That
doesn't mean they're getting coffee for sales.
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It means they're trying to make help
to make selling easier. And of course
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you have to focus very much on
the the customer, and he talks about
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he has all these things in the
book that is like will test you can
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give yourself, like how aligned are
we? And of course he starts the
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book explaining why you need to be
aligned. And you have an example that
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you mentioned before we started recording about
how somebody might have downloaded something from a
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website and then a salesperson calls and
follows up to mention that. Yeah,
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so I have a customer or they
download something based on a whole a white
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paper based on different challenges that they
might have, and then when they hand
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it over to the sales guy.
The sales guy asked them, will tell
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me your top challenge, and yet
we should have already been able to communicate
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that to the salesperson based on the
white paper that was download we have insight
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into what the customers interested in.
Based on the new digital world that we're
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in. We can see where they're
going on the website. We can see
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what they're interested in beforehand and that
takes us closer to be able to deliver
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some kind of insight when it's finally
handed over to sales. Yeah, you
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know, he talks in the book
about whether they're a companies going to be
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able to get their sales and marketing
aligned, and the other was he knows.
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He knows our yeah, it's hard
and if there isn't CEO buy in,
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he doesn't even take the job anymore
because, hey, he's busy and
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he's good, but also he knows
that it does an end well and it's
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not going to work. In other
words, if there's just sort of dolling
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or playing around with aligning sales and
marketing, it's a cultural change for companies,
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particularly ones that are more sales dominated. And what's interesting is that the
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book, I think, is only
like a hundred pages. He could have
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written. He said he could have
written a book twice that size, but
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he wrote it a hundred pages so
that a CEO could get on a flight
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and finish it and understand and have
just enough to get started, to understand
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why this needs to be a priority. Yep, and that's one of the
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important things, is that the executives
who are going to be sponsors have to
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recognize it. It's important question for
you. He recommends that marketing and sales
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share a revenue goal. So and
that's not all that common. It's more
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common now, I think, than
the year has passed. But what's your
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take on assigning a revenue goal to
marketing? Well, I agree. I
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think minimum it needs to be activities
that contribute to revenue and other words focus
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on revenue, get everybody on the
same page. And in fact there's some
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companies like get hup spot, I
believe, where they just have a director
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of revenue and sales and marketing reporting
to them. They know which yeah,
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they know which levers to pull to
generate revenue, and so I think it's
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a good idea and it really you
know, it's there's also some really practical
360
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things like have a meat on a
regular basis, marketers go on sales calls
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on a a gular basis, sit
in the same place, if you can
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have weekly meetings and also have salespeople
rotate through marketing to have them better understand
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what they are capable of doing to
help sales. So I think it's a
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good idea. I think that rather
than a generating leads, you know,
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just generating leads, that's where a
lot of companies get it wrong. Instead
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of saying look, we generated these
leads. Yeah, but the leads might
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be weak. Why don't you focus
instead on some pipeline metrics like sales accepted
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leads? You know, maybe it's
a smaller number, but it gets the
369
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marketing folks to be better and tuned
with WHO's buying and what is more relevant
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to what is closer to revenue.
Yeah, and that speaks to his he's
371
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got these three processes or pillars.
He calls them, data, process and
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communication, and the data side this
spends a little time talking about the ideal
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customer profile, which, if we
could send a bunch of leads, right,
374
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but they might be weekly, as
if they're not to our ideal customer
375
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profile. So that's a little bit
that he's speaking to and there about that.
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Yeah, that's another real obvious one. Where have marketing and sales sat
377
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down and identified what an ideal customer
profile is? Now, if the CEO
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says anyone with a pulse, you're
in trouble. You need to update your
379
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resident but even just having that first
conversation about what's an ideal customer profile,
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and here's a little tip, ask
what their worst customers are. I always
381
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get a quick answer. What customers
would you like to fire? which ones
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are not profitable and and don't?
Don't just at revenues, look at profitability.
383
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Get your CFO involved, find out
who are a most profitable customers,
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because it's really about profits more than
revenues in most instances, and then start
385
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to zero in on who is it
that gets the most out of our products
386
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and services. You know, who
are the ones that refer others, who
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continues to buy more? There's another
great question for aligning sales and marketing is
388
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.599
having everyone understand the customer lifetime value. So many companies don't think about that,
389
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at least the ones I talked to. I'll say to how long do
390
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you keep your customers? They go, Oh, maybe ten or twenty years,
391
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and how much do you sell to
him? And they'll give me some
392
00:26:52.109 --> 00:26:56.029
number and I'm multiply that by twenty
and they're like, Gosh, I never
393
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thought of it that way. It's
surprising and it's such a high lever's channel.
394
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So so his one takeaway on this
one is just to realize that digital
395
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has completely changed to buy or seller
relationship and that we just gotta stop selling
396
00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:11.819
the way we've always been selling in
the past. And again this will sound
397
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.450
familiar, is one thing is to
do what you just said is sit down
398
00:27:15.769 --> 00:27:19.009
the and he's kind of directing this
at marketer. So this particularly take away
399
00:27:19.049 --> 00:27:23.730
that he offered is sit down with
your sales team on their calls and listen,
400
00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:26.210
listen to what's happening here, what's
going on, and then have a
401
00:27:26.289 --> 00:27:30.920
conversation with them and what's you ask
them what's happening, because he gives you
402
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.400
their perspective about what's going on.
So again it's about listening to your customers,
403
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.119
but in this case, you know
it's each other's departments. So I
404
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.400
think this book could be good for
any CEO. I think that's what it's
405
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.039
designed for. It's very salient and
very easy to read. One probably a
406
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.230
one sitting read Yep. All right, last time. We've got to think.
407
00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:49.390
Do say how to seize at tension
and build trust in a busy,
408
00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:52.430
busy world by run tight, and
I don't know if you've heard him speak,
409
00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:56.269
but run tight is extremely entertaining.
He's very funny guy and I think
410
00:27:56.309 --> 00:27:59.900
this book is also very enlightening.
So tell us a little bit about think
411
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:03.259
Du say in your interview with Ron
yes and notice you mentioned a busy,
412
00:28:03.339 --> 00:28:06.539
busy world like wow, overwhelmed consumers. I think there may be a theme
413
00:28:06.619 --> 00:28:07.900
here, James, I. I
know the whole thing right. I mean
414
00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:12.529
it's like also the whole and that's
for it's beautifully written and it's also really
415
00:28:12.769 --> 00:28:17.849
funny. And I mean he's a
funny guy, but he'sn't has these quotes
416
00:28:18.250 --> 00:28:21.210
going through the book like you might
see in a book, but they're completely
417
00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.640
made up. It's like Winston Churchill
talking about five gen networks and Marie Curry
418
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.920
talking about social media. It's but
they don't reveal the joke until the end.
419
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.440
So one thing he talked about in
the beginning that I you know,
420
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.599
I steal so much from these books
in terms of trying to explain things to
421
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:45.789
others or clients or whatever. And
he talks about Time Square. Anyone who's
422
00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.950
been there they know that Times Square
is a very busy, almost information overloaded
423
00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:53.509
place. Time Square is now in
your pocket. He said Time Square is
424
00:28:53.549 --> 00:29:00.339
in Kentucky. Time Square is everywhere, because people are so overwhelmed, they're
425
00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:08.099
increasingly mistrustful and they're looking for guidance
and he just has so many things.
426
00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:12.730
Reading his book makes me want to
go see him. That a live key
427
00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:15.529
and I've only put out. Oh
Yeah, he's I've only been able to
428
00:29:15.609 --> 00:29:21.529
see videos of him. And it's
also another example of something that I've noticed
429
00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:25.400
in hundreds of books that have been
on the show that people who are really
430
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.599
spectacular professional speakers always seem to have
the best books, and I think it's
431
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.839
because they practice the good podcast interviews. Yes, absolutely, I'm lucky to
432
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:40.430
have them on the show and well, the thing is they will test out
433
00:29:40.470 --> 00:29:45.789
this material over the years and they
know what works and they even introduced into
434
00:29:45.829 --> 00:29:52.269
their writing a sense of timing and
pacing to keep the people engaged. So
435
00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:59.140
in the book he inditian to mentioning
that we're completely overwhelmed. He then went
436
00:29:59.180 --> 00:30:02.940
into this explanation of something and I'm
not sure he said that he came up
437
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:04.460
with this. He was being very
careful not to make it look like he
438
00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:08.769
came up. But there's this thing
called a pitch slap, and that's where
439
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:14.210
somebody connects with you on social media. Think about like linked in, for
440
00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:17.690
instance. I get these every day
and they you maybe you connect with them
441
00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:21.920
and then they start pitching you and
it's sexy thing, you know. Yeah,
442
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.200
and it's sort of and it's not
just there, it's it's in real
443
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.559
life and it's like this. Oh, he just talks about these omnipresent pitch
444
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:32.880
slap the OPS, the omnipresent pitch
slap. Well, he talks about that
445
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:37.470
because it doesn't work and it's not
a it's not a, you know,
446
00:30:37.990 --> 00:30:40.910
a very good idea. But there
were just so many things in the book
447
00:30:40.950 --> 00:30:44.549
where he talks about how people used
to vote with their wallet and now they
448
00:30:44.630 --> 00:30:48.670
vote with their time and attention,
and it's that inside that. Yeah,
449
00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:53.099
it's even more that's even more valuable
than money. And again I you know,
450
00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:56.619
trying to explain to companies where they'll
say, well, we're going to.
451
00:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.980
It's some form of communication. I
want to be talking about our products
452
00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:03.980
and our services, and it's like, how do you tell these folks?
453
00:31:03.609 --> 00:31:10.089
How do you help them discover what
they're up against here? And even like
454
00:31:10.170 --> 00:31:11.930
the CEO of a company I might
have been talking to, you know,
455
00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:18.490
his mom loves him, but even
she doesn't care about things that he wants
456
00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:21.759
to talk about. You know,
people want to talk about their own selves
457
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.480
and their own problems. So but
he also goes on to talk about,
458
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.680
you know, doing what you say
you're going to do, acting with integrity,
459
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.710
hiring the right kind of people,
you know, believing in something,
460
00:31:33.750 --> 00:31:37.109
and that's very powerful. If you
sense that there's a higher purpose that your
461
00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:41.430
company has, it actually helps you
from a strategic standpoint in terms of you
462
00:31:41.509 --> 00:31:45.869
know what you should do and and
what you shouldn't. But it also the
463
00:31:45.950 --> 00:31:48.940
customers really like it. And there
was one other I'm just going to pick
464
00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:52.859
out one other thing from the from
the book he talked about, which was
465
00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:56.900
so important I wish everyone would understand
it. He talks about bench marking,
466
00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:02.170
and that's where, if you're benchmarking
against your own competition, okay, you
467
00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:06.329
can do that. But that better
not be the driver of what you're doing
468
00:32:06.730 --> 00:32:09.730
for a couple reasons. One,
you might have really crappy competitors, so
469
00:32:10.289 --> 00:32:15.839
don't feel too good about yourself.
But also there's people who are having other
470
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.319
experiences. Like, you know,
there's the Amazon effect where when something is
471
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.839
introduced, like a new idea of
like sending an email after you've ordered something
472
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.119
to let him know that it's on
the way. Well, if you're not,
473
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:29.880
if everyone's not doing that way,
regardless of whether your competition is or
474
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:32.269
not, it doesn't matter. You've
got the wrong benchmarks. Yeah, it's
475
00:32:32.269 --> 00:32:37.710
table sticks. And so you know, Gillette and chick were are there razor
476
00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:42.950
companies and in a now when we
beating up on the big companies because they
477
00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:45.059
they're trying to get economies of scales
and there it's hard. It's hard for
478
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:49.700
them to make these things, but
they you could argue that they weren't ready
479
00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:52.220
for Dollar Shave Club. They were
focusing on each other and the way that
480
00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:57.819
they were distributed. And of course
those companies still need to be careful about
481
00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:00.809
how they they have to protect their
distribution channels when something like dollar Shave Club
482
00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:06.890
comes along and completely upends that you
could argue that, whether that's true with
483
00:33:06.970 --> 00:33:10.289
them or not, that's an example
of where companies are only looking at their
484
00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:15.559
competitors and not looking at the friction
in their customers lives to figure out how
485
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.160
they can innovate. Yep, and
in that sense this book has a quite
486
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.799
a bit on innovation there towards the
end that I really liked. Right and
487
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.599
need to how the importance of looking
outside the category that you're in in order
488
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:30.710
to disrupt. Yeah, yeah,
it was fascinating and and it was a
489
00:33:30.750 --> 00:33:34.029
lot of fun and he had a
terrible cold when I interviewed him, but
490
00:33:34.109 --> 00:33:37.349
he's such a pro he didn't you
couldn't tell. You couldn't tell, you
491
00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:42.099
couldn't tell. What is one takeaway
was to be personally accountable and take care
492
00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:45.500
of your own universe first, and
the one thing he thought that listeners could
493
00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:47.339
do is to just think about what
you're going to do the next six months
494
00:33:47.420 --> 00:33:50.579
and then just pick one thing from
the book, because there's quite a few
495
00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:52.380
things in there, and and think
about how you're going to reinforce that.
496
00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:57.089
So I really enjoyed the book.
I think Ron's extremely entertaining. I'd say
497
00:33:57.089 --> 00:34:00.569
this is a must read. For
any marketing or advertising professional. I think
498
00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:04.970
it clearly explains everything you need to
do to define your brand and share it
499
00:34:05.009 --> 00:34:07.049
with the world, even though there's
a lot of noise out there. Yes,
500
00:34:07.130 --> 00:34:09.840
and actually, just a few days
after I interviewed him, his wife
501
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:14.360
had their second child. So that's
the second time where I've been interviewing an
502
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.519
author, although Ron didnss of burse
a trend. Yes, I think I
503
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.199
seem to be inducing Labor in the
families of the authors that I speak to.
504
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.269
But congratulations to Mr and Mrs tied
on the new addition. Hope all
505
00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:29.230
is going well for them. Yes, well, as always, I learn
506
00:34:29.269 --> 00:34:30.909
a lot from this. Must Books, really stellar selections. As time to
507
00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:34.869
tell us about the new books you've
got coming up on the marketing book podcast
508
00:34:35.269 --> 00:34:40.820
for more for the next round.
And the books are the context marketing revolution.
509
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:46.420
How to motivate buyers in the age
of infinite media by Matthew Sweezy.
510
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:52.130
Hey, another book. Yeah,
talking overload. Great Book. Matthew sweezy
511
00:34:52.210 --> 00:34:58.170
works for sales force. The next
book is sizing people up. A veteran
512
00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:05.769
FBI agents user manual for behavior prediction
by Robin Drake. Owning game change subcategories
513
00:35:05.849 --> 00:35:09.880
uncommon growth in the digital age by
David Ocker, who's considered to be the
514
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.920
world renowned expert on brand and branding. But, excuse me, brand strategy,
515
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.670
not not logos, for those who
don't know what that means. More
516
00:35:21.750 --> 00:35:23.630
it was a more of a business
strategy book and it is really good.
517
00:35:24.070 --> 00:35:29.550
And the last one is restoring the
soul of business, staying human in the
518
00:35:29.630 --> 00:35:32.989
age of data, by Rashad Tobacca
Wala. All of those sound awesome.
519
00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:37.300
Actually, I'm excited about they are. They are. I am the luckiest
520
00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:39.300
podcaster in the world that I get
to read these books and interview these folks.
521
00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:43.059
Well, that's it for this month's
be to be growth show. Book
522
00:35:43.099 --> 00:35:46.420
talked. To learn more about the
marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book Podcastcom,
523
00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:50.690
and to learn more about James and
his excellent book, which is one
524
00:35:50.730 --> 00:35:55.570
of my favorites, the perfect close, visit pure mirror. That's spelled purem
525
00:35:55.769 --> 00:36:02.489
you. I arecom and James.
The last time we had the episode of
526
00:36:04.010 --> 00:36:07.840
the Book Talk There when there's no
plague. Yeah, we talked about where
527
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:12.280
we were going to be speaking soon. Well, we take all that back.
528
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.480
Yeah, everything serious. Thanks make
canceled. I was going to be
529
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.989
off in Ohio and all these other
plays all all off. So I don't
530
00:36:19.989 --> 00:36:22.590
have anything scheduled and I think a
lot of speakers, I know they don't
531
00:36:22.630 --> 00:36:25.750
have anything schedule for the rest of
the year. But you are still going
532
00:36:25.750 --> 00:36:30.230
to be doing some speaking, it's
just going to be virtuals at right yeah,
533
00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:31.900
yeah, some of the events have
turned into visual events and others have
534
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:35.900
been pushed out far enough that we'll
just have to wait and see what happens
535
00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:38.420
with the covid nineteen to see where
that goes. But you never know.
536
00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:43.659
I still maybe in DC in the
summer and and outbound has been moved to
537
00:36:43.900 --> 00:36:46.690
August, but we're crossing our fingers
that things will look good in August for
538
00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:51.210
that. And then the relationship marketing
grand summit, which is on September.
539
00:36:51.210 --> 00:36:53.610
Eight has been converted to a virtual
event and we're seeing that a lot.
540
00:36:54.130 --> 00:36:58.289
So stay tuned. So, as
I mentioned earlier, if either of US
541
00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:01.039
can recommend a specific sales or marketing
book or the resource for whatever situation you
542
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:05.920
find yourself in, connect with us
on linkedin where we can chat and we'll
543
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.920
do our best to get you pointed
in the right direction and hopefully save you
544
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:15.469
time. I hope everybody stays healthy
and safe and was able to hang on
545
00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:21.710
during this really crazy time and remember
keep learning, because these days the big
546
00:37:21.829 --> 00:37:30.659
learners are the big earners. I
hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners
547
00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:34.380
for reviews, but I get why
they do it, because reviews are enormously
548
00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:37.980
helpful when you're trying to grow podcast
audience. So here's what we decided to
549
00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:40.300
do. If you leave a review
for me to be growth in apple podcasts
550
00:37:40.539 --> 00:37:45.650
and email me a screenshot of the
review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom,
551
00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:49.690
I'll send you assigned copy of my
new book, content based networking, how
552
00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:52.969
to instantly connect with anyone you want
to know. We get a review,
553
00:37:52.010 --> 00:37:54.170
you get a free book. We
both win.