Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hey, this is James, the
founder of sweet fish media. If you've
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listened to me to be growth for
a while, you probably have an idea
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of what we're passionate about. Loving
people really well, a constant pursuit of
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learning and inspiring people to own their
careers. With all the craziness happening with
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this virus, we are incredibly fortunate
to be in the business of podcasting.
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So many BB brands are looking for
alternatives to their inperson events that are being
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canceled, and our business is growing
as a result. Please don't miss hear
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me on this, because I'm not
saying this to Brag. It is heartbreaking
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the economic impact this is having on
so many businesses. But being in the
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business of podcasting, the demand for
what we do has increased and because of
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that we're looking to hire really talented
people to help us serve that demand.
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So if you like what we're all
about it sweet fish and you're looking for
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a great career opportunity, hit us
up. There's a link in the show
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notes where you can apply today.
I'm really looking forward to meeting you.
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Welcome back to be to be growth. This is another behind the current episode.
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It's Kelsey course, and I'm here
today with Logan Lyles, director of
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partnerships. How's it going today,
Logan? I am doing well. Kelsey,
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I am managing quarantine. Okay.
Actually had a good time with the
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family this weekend. We watched a
little pixar movie. That was fun and
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excited to chat with you. I
had some experiences here recently that I definitely
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want to share with other sales people
out there and what they can learn from
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it. Yeah, that's awesome and
I'm so excited to dive right into it.
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So kind of what you were hinting
at is two situations where you told
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potential customers that we may not be
a good fit for them. So tell
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me what prompted this? Yeah,
absolutely, so a lot of this conversation
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is centered around just how I've always
approached sales, I feel like, and
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also something I've really been trying to
lean into since I read a really great
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sales book called the transparency sale by
Todd capony. If anybody listening to this
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hasn't checked that out before, we've
interviewed him on the BB sales show.
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We can link to that in the
show notes. But it's all about when
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you lead with almost radical transparency,
you have better results and we're going to
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talk in a little bit down the
road in this episode about some of the
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things that I think you can take
away from this. But the situations where
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they were. There were two different
prospects that I was talking to. One
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head come to me and said,
Hey, we have an existing podcast.
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We'd like to see if you guys
could help and kind of take our production
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to the next level. The other
was a new customer that was looking for
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our help with launching and producing their
new show. And in both situations there
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were certain things as I started to
ask questions about what they were looking for,
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what they were hoping to get out
of their podcasts, where where they
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were most needing help. Some of
the areas that they were talking about and
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showing needs were not necessarily the areas
that we are the strongest, where we
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deliver the most value, and we
can kind of get into some specifics there.
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But as opposed to kind of shying
away from those, I chose to
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dig in on those and say,
Hey, this is an area where we
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might not be a good fit.
In both situations, both customers were looking
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for help with really kind of higher
level, very polished, very high production
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value on the audio. Now I
think we produced great sounding podcast we have,
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you know, over sixty in active
production and they're definitely, I think,
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better audio quality than just doing it
yourself and recording on your iphone and
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throwing on anchor. But they're not
most of the podcasts that we produce are
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somewhere between that kind of diy,
very very basic, and this American life
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or masters of scale or something else
with that very highly highly produced, hundreds
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of cuts through the episode narrative format. That's just not necessarily what we do.
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Where where we kind of come in
is somewhere in the middle, and
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so I noticed this disconnect of they
were looking for something more on that far
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end of the spectrum and that's not
necessarily where our strengths lie. So,
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as opposed to kind of talking about
other things or spinning up the things that
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we do really well, I dug
into that to see, well, is
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this important to you guys? Is
this what you're looking for? And so
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that's, I think, what other
sales people can can learn from and we
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can talk a little bit more about. You know, what happened in and
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some of the effects of that,
how the conversations actually went from there.
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Yeah, I also find it very
interesting that they were two very different scenarios.
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One already had a podcast and is
looking to enhance it and one was
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a completely new client. So what
happened in each of them? Yeah,
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so in the conversation where the prospect
had an existing podcast, we had the
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conversation and I said, well,
are you guys looking for production help?
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Are you looking for like what we're
really good at right is taking a piece
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of audio and turning that into several
graphics, short form video, long form
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video, written content for Linkedin,
written content for your blog, producing the
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podcast episode, getting as much juiced
for the squeeze, as they say,
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out of, you know, your
one piece of content and turning that into
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more. That's that's really where I
think our strengths live, based on the
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team that we have of great producers
like yourself and the way that we've structured
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and grown the team, from video
to producers to graphic designers and everything there.
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And what he said was, well, that's not necessarily what we need
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help with. What we need help
with is taking that audio quality and making
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it more this narrative style and and
structuring the episodes and giving you some raw
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audio and having you kind of piece
it together in this journalistic style. And
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I said, well, we don't
necessarily have journalists on on staff here.
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You know, we have some folks
who are growing in learning how to outline
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interviews, develop questions, host podcasts
like yourself and like we're doing right now,
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right, but that's not necessarily our
strength. So if that's really what
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you're looking for, I don't know
if we're the right fit today. In
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a year from now we might have
that sort of offering, but today we
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don't. And he just stopped and
said, and I really appreciate that,
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it sounds like we should kind of
time out and stop the conversation here.
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But what happened was we had fifteen
more minutes on the phone. We talked
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podcasting, he shared a tool that
I ended up sharing with another customer,
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which actually loose into this whole story, and I felt like I gained a
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lot of trust with that potential customer. Now you know if he moves on
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to another company or they have some
different needs with their podcast or he talks
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to someone else. I've gained some
trust there and I also haven't kind of
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stretched our team and said Hey,
guys, guess what I committed to.
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I know we don't have process for
this type of show, but this is,
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you know, this is the customer
I could get in the door.
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And then the other situation was kind
of the same thing. They were looking
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for more of that higher production value, that narrative style podcast, and one
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I talked to them about what we
see in the sustainability of that and there's
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a reason that we kind of fit
in in the middle between that highly scripted
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narrative style podcast and just kind of
do it yourself low quality. That's because
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we see that there needs to be
a balance between quality and quantity in your
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podcast in order to keep listeners engaged, in order to stay consistent and be
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able to have the bandwidth to keep
your podcast going even with our help.
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So we had a conversation about that. We also so the tool that that
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first prospect mentioned that he was using
to kind of outline his interviews, take
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the raw audio and kind of move
stuff a round and create this narrative format.
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I was able to recommend to this
other potential customer and say well,
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Hey, what if you guys use
this tool to kind of create the structure
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and then you kick that to us, because we do have amazing audio engineers
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that can clean stuff up and provide
clean transitions and smooth out the rough edges
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and all those sorts of things and
then turn that into a lot more as
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I mentioned earlier, and some of
our strengths. And he was like that
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actually makes a lot of sense as
opposed to us, you know, paying
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double or needing to find someone else
other than you guys, because you do
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a lot of the things that we
do want if we could take some of
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that in house. And so now
that deal has progressed, we're looking at
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bringing on that that new customer and
we're going into it eyes wide open,
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where they don't have this assumption that
well, sweet fish can do these things
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that maybe we can't do. I
didn't just kind of Skim over that,
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just talk about the great things and
set them up for maybe a bad customer
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experience in the producer on our team
for a bad experience as well. And
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so one eliminated a deal, but
that was okay because there were good things
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that came out of it, and
the other actually move the deal along as
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opposed to waiting until the very end
or until after they're on boarded to talk
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about kind of the sticky part where
maybe we were trying to put a round
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peg in a square hole, or
maybe the saying is typically flipped. Anyway,
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I think people get what I'm saying
there. Then we were able to
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address that. That could have been
kind of one of those oh sort of
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things that pop up after onboarding,
whether you're a service based business like us
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or a product based business where your
product doesn't necessarily fit this situation but you're
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trying to you're trying to make it
work to get that deal. It sounds
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like there's a lot of benefits and
being in sales and truly knowing and understanding
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strengths and weaknesses of the team.
So let's talk about some more benefits.
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What can we learn? How?
What's it like being transparent in sales?
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Yeah, absolutely so. One of
the things I alluded to earlier is that
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you avoid bad deals, and avoiding
deals and not getting at them across the
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finish line seems a little bit counterintuitive
to those of us who have been in
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sales for for any length of time, but what it really does is if
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you avoid trying to shove that round
peg into a square hole, then you're
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actually reducing your company's churn rate because
those not ideal fit and and I'm not
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saying that you know every customer is
just going to check every single box and
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be, you know, a raving
fan and just perfect for your organization,
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but you know the ones where you're
trying to stretch a little bit too much.
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By avoiding those, then you're going
to reduce your churn rate because even
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if you get those deals across the
finish line and they come on board as
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customers, likelihood is they are not
going to stay for for that long.
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The other thing that it does is
it accelerates your good deals. So in
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the second story that I shared there, it actually accelerated that deal. I
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gained trust by just speaking open and
honestly about one of the concerns that they
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had, because I had given them, Hey, here are some other shows
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you can listen to, here some
customers to talk to, and I said,
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you know, it seems like you
guys might be looking for kind of
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this higher end audio production, and
he's like yeah, and I kind of
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noticed most of the shows that you
guys produced don't kind of fit that mold.
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And so by talking about that openly
we were able to come to a
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solution that that seems to work from
a price point, from a bandwidth,
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from WHO's going to take on what? All of those things seem to work
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as opposed to you know, the
deal could have just stalled out because they
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could have just decided hey, sweet
fish isn't a good fit for us because
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we're looking for this. They don't
typically offer this. But if we had
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never talked about it, then I
didn't have a chance to address that.
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So some deals will get out of
your pipeline, some will accelerate and it's
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also going to accelerate your better deals
because you're not going to spend time on
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wasted deals that are never going to
close or are going to close and not
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stay for long anyway. So it
allows you to accelerate your deal velocity and
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help contribute to a lower turn rate
for your for your organization. The other
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thing is when you lower your turn
rate, you have happier customers, which
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lead to more referrals, but you
also have happier team members. You know
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a lot of folks listening to the
show are in Sass businesses where you have
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customer support, customer experience or customer
success teams who are responsible for the happiness
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of the customer and delivering on the
promise us that sales and marketing made to
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them right and in our case that's
folks like you, Kelsey, that's folks
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that are on our producer team that
you know. I've talked with customers about
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what they can expect during their launch
process, how we're going to help produce
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their show, how we're going to
create more content out of their podcast.
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And if I've kind of set bad
expectations or kind of said, well,
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we can maybe stretched here, but
I know that our team is not set
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up to support something that they want, whatever the case that that may be,
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then not only is there going to
be frustration on the customer side,
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but you're going to contribute to frustration
internally at your organization for anyone involved on
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the post sale side. So the
other thing that you need to think about
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is what are you contributing to your
culture? We took a lot about sales
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and marketing alignment, but sales and
customer success. I think the more that
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you're aligned and on the same page
with your partners on the post sale side,
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the better off you're going to be. And then the other thing,
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the the fourth one that I mentioned
earlier, in that first scenario was credibility
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and gained referrals. If you are
known for just offering the truth, for
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really being you know that. We
talked about a trusted advisor and sales.
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How do you gain trust? You
show that you're willing to speak the truth
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when it's not in your best interest, and in that first scenario by saying
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hey, I don't think we're the
right fit for you, then he was
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able to say, Hey, look, Logan and sweetfish are actually looking out
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for me, they're not just trying
to sell me something. If they are
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the right fit, then obviously they're
going to tell me why they are,
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and everybody that I talked to knows
that. Hey, it's my job to
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put our best foot forward and offer
what we have at sweet fish, but
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if they know that I'm doing that
in a very honest and transparent way,
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then they're going to feel more comfortable
in referring other business or coming back to
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me when they're at a different organization. And no matter who you sell to,
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people are moving around more these days
than ever, and so that investment
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in the long term trust and relationship
with that potential customer is worth a whole
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lot more than that short term deal
that you could maybe get across the finish
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line, but it's tough to take
that long term picture when you've got your
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quota hanging over your head or you're
only looking at the short term. You've
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got to have that long term mindset, and I'm not saying ignore your monthly
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quota, your quarterly quota. We
all know we have to do that as
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sales people, but it comes with
a balance. And I just got to
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give a shout out again to todd
capony. Check out his book the Transparency
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Sale. If any of this is
kind of resonating with you, it's a
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great book to go deeper on this
topic. Yeah, all of those antecdotes
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and stories and everything, we're so
powerful. Just to kind of give a
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little bit of a recap of why
you actually told to potential customers why we
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may not be a good fit.
You told us kind of what prompted it,
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what happened and what was the outcome
in each of the situations and then,
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I think, most importantly, what
we can learn the benefits of being
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transparent in sales and something specifically you
said that I really liked was there's power
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in saying that we may not be
a good fit and I think that just
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can resignate so well in the sales
industry and just in a company in general.
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Like you said, having credibility and
getting referrals and kind of the long
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game versus the short game. So
thank you so much for telling us about
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those scenarios and the story. So, if someone wants to connect with you,
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what's the best way that they can
do that? Yeah, absolutely.
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If you're a regular listener of the
show, you know that I'm most active
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on Linkedin. It's very easy to
find me, Logan Lyles. My last
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00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.309
name is spelled L Y L es. You can also connect with me on
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instagram. I'm at I am Logan
Miles either of those or feel free to
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shoot me an email, logan at
sweet fish Mediacom. If you want to
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chat podcasting or sales. I'm always
up for chatting with listeners. I really
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appreciate you hosting today, by the
way, Kelsey. Thanks so much.
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Yeah, thanks for being on the
show. I hate it when podcasts incessantly
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00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.539
ask their listeners for reviews, but
I get why they do it, because
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00:15:48.580 --> 00:15:52.769
reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying
to grow a podcast audience. So here's
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00:15:52.809 --> 00:15:54.450
what we decided to do. If
you leave a review for me to be
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00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:58.929
growth in apple podcasts and email me
a screenshot of the review to James at
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00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:03.610
Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you
a signed copy of my new book,
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00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:07.279
content based networking, how to instantly
connect with anyone you want to know.
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00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.639
We get a review, you get
a free book. We both win.