Authenticity Builds Brand, with Devin Reed

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.079 Welcome back, to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 3 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:24.000 today excited to be joined by Devin Reid. Had A content strategy at 4 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.920 Gong. Devn welcome to the Showman, Yo. What's going on, Benjie? 5 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.280 Fantastic, excited to have you here and I want to say congratulations. 6 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.399 I was checking out linkedin before this and I'm like, man, you've been 7 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:41.920 at gone almost five years. So like you have you have seen some growth, 8 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.560 you has seen some things. I know this year you guys were running 9 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.600 super bowl ads and all sorts of stuff. So, okay, give me. 10 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:53.240 Give me like your favorite thing about your job right now and the work 11 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:57.759 that you're doing. The favorite thing about my job, and and I pitched 12 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:00.679 this, when you know I'm recruiting folks to join my team, because it's 13 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:06.120 true. It's like we are specifically coached to do the opposite of what everyone 14 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:10.159 else and be to be is doing. So never has someone been like, 15 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:11.840 Hey, go look at Xyz Company, go do what they're doing, or 16 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.920 go, you know, copy, but don't copy this company. Like we're 17 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.879 really told go look what everyone's doing. And Finding Different Angle. And so 18 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:26.159 the reason that keeps me engaged is I'm not trying to support the existing be 19 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.519 to be marketing, I'm trying to reshape it. I'm trying to do something 20 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.959 different. So every day I'm waking up, hey, what's a beatacy trend 21 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:36.400 that I can get inspired from? What is okay, everyone's going right and 22 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:38.280 be to be on Linkedin? Let's go left and let's do a completely different 23 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.239 and so that keeps me engage and, you know, the creative juice is 24 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.439 flowing, as they say. And so yeah, that's that's my favorite part. 25 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.480 Okay, I love that as a jumping off point and I love rabbit 26 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:51.560 trails, just so you know, Devin. So we're just going to go 27 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:56.159 right for it right from the beginning of this episode. So it's twofold right. 28 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.159 So one part for me would be, okay, have you? Have 29 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.920 you always been that way? And then to how do you allow or train 30 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:06.280 your team to be that way? So let's go with you personally first. 31 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.159 As far as I have you always kind of gone okay, everyone's going right, 32 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:13.000 I'm going to go left. Yeah, yeah, I have, which 33 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.919 is, you know, sus. Suits me well for my current role I 34 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:17.919 was like getting tattoos and high school I was like, you know, and 35 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.919 not to be like a Badass, but like I didn't can't, like I 36 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.840 wanted to do what I wanted to do and what I thought was cool, 37 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:25.120 which was, you know, I've always been into sneakers, so I would 38 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.960 show up in school like, you know, Tel and pink sneakers that are 39 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.800 like patent leather. I would show up with like a tattoo that was visible. 40 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.479 Now I'm covered in tattoos. Now the super cool and like accepted. 41 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:38.879 When I was getting them, they were like ten years ago it wasn't quite 42 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:45.520 as broadly accepted. But I remember this one time in elementary school, like 43 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.319 really little, and I remember just this thought of like I saw everyone lining 44 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.000 up a certain way. I think the teachers like asking people to line up 45 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:54.759 in a certain way, and it was chaos, like it was just not 46 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:58.159 working at all, and I was always like why are we doing it that 47 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.120 way? That makes no sense at all. We should be doing it this 48 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:01.639 way. I'm like six years old, what do I know? I'm probably 49 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:06.280 like completely wrong, but I just remember having that like little epiphany moment of 50 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.759 like I'm really confident in my perspective, and it's not arrogance, it's not 51 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:15.520 that I'm always right, I'm just really confident in let's be observant for a 52 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:20.039 second, let's see what everyone's doing and if it's obvious that's the right thing 53 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:21.960 to do, you know, go do it. Don't be different for the 54 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:23.639 sake of, you know, at the detriment of yourself. But I'm always 55 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.319 just have this perspective of I'm going to do it my way, I'm going 56 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.400 to enjoy it, and I think when I'm enjoying it, then I'm more 57 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.759 successful. Right, like I'm the the output is better when I'm really more 58 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:37.080 bought into that and doing my own thing. Hmm, I love that. 59 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.800 Okay, so then let's go just outward for a second then, because when 60 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:43.840 you bring somebody on the team and you're trying to not everyone's going to come 61 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.120 in with that as their backstory and you want to allow people to sort of 62 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.280 get in that mode. You want to create that culture. How do you, 63 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:54.560 I don't want to say train somebody's eye, but in a sense you 64 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.080 are. You're allowing them to see things differently, right, and you're like 65 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:00.800 hey, this is maybe a different way to look at it. And and 66 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.159 so how do you go about trying to do that? So starts in the 67 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:08.000 interview process and I tell people that reshape be to be marketing. Re shape 68 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.879 be to be marketing. Like that's really foundational to our team. We also 69 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:16.639 have a operating principle at Gong called Challenge Conventional Wisdom. So it's based on 70 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.439 this whole thing. Right. It's like don't do things the way that it's 71 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.800 always been done just for the sake of doing it that way. Right. 72 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.040 And so it starts an interview process like Hey, this is what we're about. 73 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.279 We do things differently. Now most people, especially on the mark getting 74 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:32.600 world, they know gone for the most part before they come talk to me. 75 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.160 So they're usually like yeah, I see what you all doing, I 76 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.639 want to be a part of that. So that's usually kind of the doors 77 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:44.000 already open. But what I've found is that there's a lot of fantastic marketers, 78 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.360 really smart, creative people who, by the time they come talk to 79 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.439 me, maybe two hundred, twenty five, maybe ten years in their career, 80 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:55.079 they've been boxed in over and over again with like now, don't do 81 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:56.720 that, do it this way. No, don't be that. You know, 82 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.000 in their in their ideas and creativity just get suppressed over years and so 83 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:05.680 used to doing safe marketing, and so there is a bit of an untraining 84 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:10.000 process when they come work with me where I'm like okay, we're like forget 85 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.480 all that stuff. I want you to think big. I want you to 86 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.720 come up with, you know, what seemed like crazy ideas. Think of 87 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.639 the best, biggest thing we could do, and then we'll back into like 88 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.519 how does this operation allies? How do we measure it, and that sort 89 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:27.920 of thing, because that's how really great ideas come about, when you start 90 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.160 with like why know I need to get this metric done and I know that 91 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.920 I can do a cookie cutter Webinar and I'm doing like robotic arms for people 92 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:36.759 who can't see me right now. Like that's really hard to get too big, 93 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.600 great ideas that are going to grab attention and like really move the market, 94 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:42.639 and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to educate the market 95 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.360 and move it in our direction, not just add to the noise. HMM, 96 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.759 story for you, I think it's the it's eat. I know, 97 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:51.720 I wish I knew. It's either uber or air BNB, but I was 98 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.519 listening to a podcast and they were talking about this one up system that they 99 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.360 use, that I actually used when I proposed to my wife, where I 100 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.600 literally just grabbed a piece of paper and I wrote like level one proposal idea 101 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.079 and then like, you know, just the bare bones. This would be 102 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:12.759 a basic proposal, and I just go like level to and I just like, 103 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:15.839 okay, what's one way I could one up this? And I worked 104 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.120 it up to like level eight, level nine. I'm going, okay, 105 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:21.399 now it's getting pretty unrealistic, but like could we do level seven right, 106 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:26.040 like could we? Yeah, I like that's even just some sort of strategy 107 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.839 like that when someone's been boxed in for a long time and you just ask 108 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.560 them, okay, what's one way you could make your content strategy a little 109 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.519 bit better? What's one way, as a marketer, that you could change, 110 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.680 you know, some of your copic just allowing yourself to one up in 111 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.839 some small ways. Eventually you look back and go like Oh man, yeah, 112 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.639 my first idea kind of sucked, like that first thing was. Yeah, 113 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:51.920 I didn't mean to talk over but that's exactly go when we do brainstorms 114 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.000 right, and it's kind of tough, specially virtual and like I'm the leader 115 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.480 of the teams. I think sometimes people kind of wait for what I'm going 116 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.480 to say, but I try to be quiet and go last. And as 117 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:03.800 people are starting to kind of like though those first ideas out there, you 118 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:08.040 know, it's like the wheels just starting getting turning. I tell people like 119 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:11.600 hey, that's a good idea. Our first idea is rarely our best idea. 120 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:14.040 So let's keep going, like to your point, keep thinking bigger. 121 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:15.439 What would be even more different? What you know? What is it again, 122 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:18.360 going back to has this been done before? Oh Yeah, I seen 123 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:20.639 this done. I've seen it here here. Okay, then let's go. 124 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.439 We got to go left or right, like we can't just keep doing more 125 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:26.959 of the same. And so it does take people a little bit of time, 126 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.480 I think, to allow themselves right to think. They like to get 127 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:32.480 to level nine. You know what I mean, because they've never been pushed 128 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:35.160 to do that. People are like just level one in two. Let's just 129 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:39.279 do level one in two and then let's do a lot of one and two. 130 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.160 It's all you're doing is creating a lot of mediocrity. I'd rather have 131 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:46.600 blips of greatness than waves of mediocrity. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, 132 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.759 don't tell me you have no creative ideas. Show me a list of all 133 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.160 the things you've you know, you can think of, like once you have 134 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:57.240 that list going, you'll realize like how much creativity is inside you. That's 135 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.839 why I love working and in marketing, because there's so many people that are 136 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:05.240 like figuring out creative ways to make new stuff and like whether I'm be Toc 137 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.800 or be to be like coming into be tob you know, it's a little 138 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:09.959 bit like kind of what you're mentioning is it can feel a little more like 139 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.519 restrictive or but you still find pockets of it where, like, man, 140 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.399 they're thinking outside the box, they're doing creative stuff, and that those are 141 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.959 the most fun conversations that have talk to me a little bit about. Let's 142 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.800 go content side of things, because there is personal and then there's like company, 143 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:30.800 there's gone, there's brand. How do you think of those two differently? 144 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.960 And I'm going to keep using your language of like okay, you see 145 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.240 people going right and now we're going left, so let's talk personal. First, 146 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:41.240 for you, devn like, when it comes to Linkedin, you fiftyzero 147 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.960 plus followers at this point, like you're doing some things you've tried a lot 148 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.159 of different things. What was your pivot? Like? I'm seeing a lot 149 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:52.399 of people doing this and now for me personally, I'm going to go the 150 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.480 opposite way. So what I did was I looked at Linkedin, which is 151 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.919 my platform of choice. So if I say social or anything moving forward, 152 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.559 I'm pretty much on email and linkedin. Those are two channels and I can 153 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.000 talk about why I'm big on those two channels specifically, not me personally big, 154 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.080 but why I'm all in on those channels. Yeah, and so I'm 155 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.480 I was a sales rep right for the first six years of my career and 156 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:16.879 I've been on Linkedin a little bit, mostly prospecting sounding not really like writing 157 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.679 a lot of content, but I was consuming a lot of content, seeing 158 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:24.120 what people are writing about, and I kind of saw that it was relatively 159 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:26.639 dry, and I just mean that is like there wasn't a lot of pop 160 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.000 to it, right, like you wouldn't read someone and be like, Oh, 161 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.200 that Benjy Guy, like know, the way he writes is amazing. 162 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.879 You just saw like how many logos on papers and blogs and all kind of 163 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.639 read the same. Like if you if you put your hand over the website 164 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.720 url or like logo. I bet you couldn't really tell the difference of like 165 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.919 commodity content. Yep, right, and so I was like, okay, 166 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.759 I'm just noticing this, observing. And then when I moved into the marketing 167 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.120 roll, I started being you know, I'm on Webinars for Gong, I'm 168 00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.399 writing blogs for going, and so I saw it as an opportunity to say, 169 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.240 well, I didn't really like learning about the X Y Z company blog. 170 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.559 No offense to any of them, but I would really enjoy when I 171 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:09.960 learned about the person, like the author, the podcast host, the show 172 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.480 host, like that's who you oftentimes tune in for. The show is just 173 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.200 the thing around them. And so when I was on link going back to 174 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:20.039 like Linkedin in myself, I was like, hey, why don't I be 175 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.919 different? Why not be who I am half more fun doing it, and 176 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.799 try to be relatable and try to stand out in that order. And so 177 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.320 what I when I say related able? I think a lot of people again, 178 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.799 we're just like share, you know. Again, I'm talking three, 179 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.519 four years ago on Linkedin, when it was like job, just it was 180 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.279 like who's hiring? Webinars and like just, I don't know, kind of 181 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.080 mediocre content, like no one was really a building a brand. That wasn't 182 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.559 even a thing three years ago. So I was like I'm just gonna have 183 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.000 fun with it, and so I would try to be as relatable as possible, 184 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.639 which was sharing my stories and experiences with like a bit of a humor, 185 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.440 you know, like a comedic twist to it, because I think I'm 186 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.840 funny. I always tell people I can guarantee jokes, I can't promise laughs, 187 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:03.559 and so I would just have fun with it right, which is like, 188 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:05.799 Hey, just got hung up on for the third time this morning. 189 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.799 Anyone with me? And I just put it out there like randomly, and 190 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.559 no one was writing like that on Linkedin, and so I really quickly started 191 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.279 building this audience of like other sales pros and go to market pros who are 192 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.000 like, Oh, yeah, that's really relatable, I've been there. or 193 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.759 Oh, Devin just got hung up on three times in a row and now 194 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.159 he's sharing what he would do instead. That's super helpful, and so I 195 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.480 started kind of turning these experiences from just sharing them for the entertainments sake and 196 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.399 started adding an educational part of it as well, which was like, you 197 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.679 know, I just posted this morning. Hey, know, hey, I'm 198 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.080 not a DM, but I have a budget. Here's the best way to 199 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.840 email me. If you want to get on, you know, get a 200 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.879 meeting with me, and I just broke down here the steps and it's starting 201 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.960 to go. You know, people love that because I'm helping them through my 202 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:54.799 experience versus just hey, I've sent true thousand emails in my career and here's 203 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:56.559 the best way to you know, here's the best way to write an email 204 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.519 and like try to act like I know it all. That's my standing on 205 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:05.200 a soapbox voice, and so it's like so that relatable factor has played really, 206 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.799 really well, and I think that's really helpful for people who are getting 207 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:13.240 started. Is I lean on your niche knowledge and your experience to help other 208 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.840 people. That's the best content strategy. Hey, everybody, Benjie here. 209 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:20.519 As a member of the sweet fish team. I wanted to take a second 210 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.519 and share something that makes us insanely more efficient. Our team uses lead Iq. 211 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.720 For those that are in sales, or you're in sales offs, let 212 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.759 me give you context. What once took us four hours to gather contact data 213 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:37.039 now just takes one. That's seventy five percent more efficient. We are so 214 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:43.360 much quicker without bound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 215 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.600 I highly suggest that you check out lead Iq as well. You can 216 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:54.960 find them at lead iqcom. That's L ADIQCOM. All right, let's jump 217 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.720 back into the show. So that relatable factor has played really, really well 218 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.360 and I think that's really helpful for people who are getting started. Is I 219 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.960 lean on your niche knowledge and your experience to help other people. That's the 220 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.759 best content strategy. It is the best content strategy. I think we're going 221 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:13.519 back to like what you were saying about if you covered the logo. What's 222 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:18.399 happening on Linkedin a bit now is people are understanding like entertainment and education works. 223 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.600 If you get in the right bubbles on of content on Linkedin right you're 224 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.960 still can you could run into endless webin our links and whatever if you are 225 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.360 in the wrong network, but if you're following the right people, you're going 226 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.000 to get a lot of like helpful content that. But what I've noticed is 227 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:37.120 like now you the personality of the person really matters, like you have to 228 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.120 be willing to kind of put yourself out there and I've even noticed this. 229 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:43.720 With your content, is like you've gone pretty like personal, as in, 230 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:46.960 like you're going to highlight your wife or the fact that you really love sneakers 231 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.360 or like those types of things that aren't necessarily like the content you would see 232 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:58.440 on Linkedin as far as even educational or entertainment, but allowing someone to see 233 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.799 your life, which is thinking about Linkedin, I think, and thinking about 234 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.240 content differently than a few years ago, where maybe all you had to do 235 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:11.360 was be educational or entertaining, and now video as a big component of that 236 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.919 too. I don't that's a little bit of a riff, but that's just 237 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.519 what I'm noticing. Is the personality in business and in be to be where 238 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:24.559 that's hasn't mattered, is starting to matter more and more. One hundred percent, 239 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.679 and it was. It was intentional, right, and it's not. 240 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.279 It's not to share or two like oversharing for the sake of like, look 241 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:31.399 how great my life is, anything like that. If you read it's like 242 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:33.639 pick yet picture of my wife. Yeah, why? Because you did her 243 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:35.720 first Webinar and I was super proud of her, so I want to give 244 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.639 her a shower, right and like, at the same time she's a woman 245 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:41.799 of color and tech, and so I'm realizing, Hey, I've got fifty 246 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.919 fivezero followers. If I amplify that, this great woman of Color has this 247 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.840 new platform, I can hopefully inspire other women, and you know, either 248 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.799 other women of Color in tech that they can do the same or other people 249 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.519 who might not be you know, white people are not people of color, 250 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.039 to say hey, maybe we should give them a platform. Right, like 251 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.200 other people are doing it right. So that was, you know, had 252 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.720 multiple advantages, obviously aside from just genuinely being proud of my wife. That 253 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:09.799 example, this side, because I don't want to make it seem like I'm 254 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.440 using the family to stand out. But like the sneakers aspect right, like 255 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.120 I've unboxing videos of me, like hey, I got a pair of sneakers 256 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.519 here, here they are. My thought is, you know, there's a 257 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.879 lot of content creators on Linkedin, there's a lot of content leaders on Linkedin. 258 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:30.000 There's really not a lot of content leaders talking about sneakers on Linkedin. 259 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:33.240 Like I immediately kind of stand alone, and so my thought is, what 260 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.159 are ways I can differentiate myself to stand out but again still provide some sort 261 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:41.320 of edutain edutainment, as I call it, you know, educational, entertaining 262 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.519 content, and when I first put it out I was like people probably going 263 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.000 to laugh or I think this like the stupidest thing, like what are sneakers 264 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.960 doing on my linkedin feed? But people love it, people respond. All 265 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.840 you have the Nikes, I were these new balance or I just bought a 266 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.159 pair of these and I'm like wow, who would have thought there were such 267 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.759 an appetite forever sneakers on a Linkedin feed? But you know, there's there's 268 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.440 tons of there's tons of room for for content like that. Are you like 269 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:10.399 encouraging your team to be active in Tho like on Linkedin as well? If 270 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.159 so, like how do you guys go about doing that and in equipping or 271 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.200 training like on that side? For for more, like you're kind of going 272 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.519 there's an advantage to personal brands that are also, you know, tied to 273 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:26.279 Gong. So how do you how do you think of that? Yeah, 274 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.799 so it's kind of to one is like my team. I have a team 275 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:32.039 five marketers, and then there's like the Gong team, like and those are 276 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:36.000 two different answers. So for the folks on my team, I mean first 277 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:40.080 of all, having a digital brand will help you get on my radar if 278 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:41.960 you're trying to get a job here. Like no one on my team did. 279 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.960 I hire that a huge personal brand. The managing editor, Chris, 280 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.519 that I just hired from Linkedin has over a hundred thousand followers, but that's 281 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.639 because he wrote a newsletter for Linkedin for a long time, right, and 282 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:53.879 so that was like, oh, that's a great asset, but you don't 283 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.440 win a you don't win a job just over that. And so what I've 284 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.840 told my team is, look, if you want to build a digital brand, 285 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.440 I know how and I'm you know, I'm happy to show you and 286 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.160 help you, but you don't have to, like. I don't want you 287 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.599 to feel pressured, and most of them just like, aren't super interested in 288 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.079 that. One Galon my team has a quite successful podcast for southeast women, 289 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.319 Southeast Asian women, ex season, and so like that's her version of her 290 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.079 brand. She's been on Forbes India, like she's probably more famous than me 291 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.079 in certain pockets of the world for short, but it's not on Linkedin, 292 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:30.480 right, and so I think it's like presenting the opportunity and encouraging them if 293 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.359 they want to do it. The way, you know, but also open, 294 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:33.799 you know, letting them, you know, go to podcast, go, 295 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.960 do you know, newsletters, whatever it is for the draw me to 296 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.559 talk about me, the Gong team to because let's do that les. Yeah, 297 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.599 it is different, but I'd love to hear it on that side as 298 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.799 well. So it was very intentional. So there's a it sounds very markety, 299 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.960 but I there happens to be three e's, a threee framework. Of 300 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.799 course there's wool these. Yeah, yeah, it just happened to I was 301 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.079 writing it down on days like they hang it. They all start with E, 302 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.039 which makes it sound like I like made it up on purpose. But 303 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.960 it's to empower, enable and equip. And so empowering is, Hey, 304 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:10.319 when you join Gong, you're going to see the people and leadership positions posting 305 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.200 on Linkedin, right, so they're leading by example. We're empowering you because 306 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:15.720 we're saying hey, we're doing it to other leaders in the company. You're 307 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.960 doing it. We're building on personal brands or talking about Gong. We're educating 308 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.400 the market. So immediately you feel empowered to do it. You're not worried 309 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:26.799 of, as Devin is, my boss going to see my clankton post is 310 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.519 somebody in h are going to Ping me because I talked about politics and there's 311 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.440 we have some parameters. We Guide people. There's no there's no restrictions for 312 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:41.119 certain topics and the next one is equipped. So then we when everyone joins 313 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.839 Gong, there's two sessions as part of their on boarding. One is just 314 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.720 the marketing strategy. Here's what we do, why we do it. Hey, 315 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:49.799 we're on linkedin. You'll get some messages from Devin from time to time 316 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.720 to share some content. Completely optional, but here's why. Right then, 317 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.279 when people are understanding, the other session is specifically with two people from my 318 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:00.319 team, I think, one now, which is here's how to use linkedin. 319 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:06.599 Nothing about Gong. It's just here's some best practices filling out your profile, 320 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.200 things to talk about, things to be cautious of talking about. You're 321 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.440 welcome to do it, but like things like political we've an optional yeah, 322 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.920 it's just a guidings because a lot of people join in the go. Hey, 323 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:21.039 I've seen gongs big on Linkedin. I'm not really familiar with how can 324 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:22.880 you teach me what I don't know? Type of thing. Right. So 325 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.640 it's just kind of getting over that initial hurdle and providing like a thirty, 326 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.160 forty five minute session to ask questions and get that in from mintion. The 327 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:34.319 last one is enable, which is how we amplify, you know, Gong 328 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.000 Messaging, which is, you know, we have a certain process where we 329 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.799 share things the email and slag has to be tier one and tier two messaging, 330 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.440 like new product release, funding, maybe gone labs, research, stuff 331 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.519 like that, and we make it really easy by giving them the one one 332 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.440 and writing prompts so they can, I think, this information, make it 333 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:57.039 their own and go publish it on Linkedin. Again, completely optional, but 334 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.039 again because they see our CEO, they see Dev and they see Sarah Brazier, 335 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:02.920 they see their peers doing it, they're like, oh, I could 336 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:04.160 do it to it's on. It's not even a big deal, and so 337 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.880 then you start creating this kind of like fly will effect. You know, 338 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.400 people from outside of going see what people in going are doing and they become 339 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.599 part of it and then the wheel just continues to spend. MMM, I 340 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.799 like that. Even those three e's are applicable regardless of what company or and 341 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.359 if you don't have that at scale, even just having maybe one person that 342 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.039 you can again like a big part of leadership right is being able to see 343 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.319 things and people. If you see that ability, they're like I would just 344 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.640 build that into that person. Say Hey, like, can you start to 345 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.960 really engage in a different way and equip our team in a new way to 346 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.880 be effective over like on Linkedin or whatever, your kind of channel of choices. 347 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.720 But having that as a as a starting places, is wonderful. All 348 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.279 Right, I'm gonna allow you to get back on your soapbox here as we 349 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.599 start to wrap up. If you were advocating for some sort of change in 350 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.119 be to be marketing more as a whole, let's let's keep it within content, 351 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.079 because that's that's the the waters that we swim in. But, like, 352 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.880 what do you think is some of those major shifts that you hope happen 353 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.519 over the next year to two years? I think I mean, and not 354 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.319 just because we just talked about it, but it's it's like fostering creators in 355 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.720 your company, because there's so much benefit to having that. And here's what's 356 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.640 here's this funny example. I was talking to somebody. She's leading content this 357 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.000 at this company, I won't say who, and they're essentially like they have 358 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.200 a bunch of consultants right, like what they do is like services and consultants, 359 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.680 and so they're supposed to be the experts in this space, this niche 360 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.359 that they have. Their the experts, but their CEO doesn't want any of 361 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.960 them building a personal brand and being known as experts. Wow, why? 362 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.319 Because he's afraid that people will they'll become an expert and then they'll leave or 363 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:42.839 they'll get, you know, they'll get recruited. And so I'm like, 364 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.880 wow, what a what a kind of an old mindset, not an old 365 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:49.839 per scarcity mindset. Yeah, here's mindset, and an older, like archaic 366 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.640 mind says better. What I should use of like the other way to view 367 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.359 it is, what if everyone was known as an expert? What do you 368 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.640 think? What happened? Clients and other experts would flock to you because they 369 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.400 want to be on that team. HMM. And so that's the way I 370 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.720 view it, for kind of like where you called a personal brand, digital 371 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.400 brand, whatever, like enable and equip and empower people to be creators. 372 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.519 Because, you know, if you're a podcast company, right, or content 373 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.359 agency, and Ben he's like known as the podcast guy and like wow, 374 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:25.319 you got to go to learn from Benji customers and other great talent will want 375 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.240 to work with Benjie and with that company, and so that's what I think 376 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.319 it's like. It's so obvious. And then the other part two is those 377 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.200 creators will if you, if you invest in those creators, they will reciprocate 378 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.400 by sharing. You know, they'll be proud to work at that company. 379 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.039 And that's where you get more marketing amplification, which is like, you know, 380 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.720 for example, with going we're throwing a virtual conference right now. There's 381 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.519 over threezero people registered and about a thousand, I think of, come from 382 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:55.240 gongsters, sharing on Linkedin and inviting people. Thousand People. That's more than 383 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.039 what most be to be companies under a thousand employees can get at an event, 384 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.759 right, and that's just from this process we're talking about. So the 385 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.119 reason I'm really passionate about it is because it's one of those few mutually beneficial 386 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.680 things you can do. or it's not just all about the company, it's 387 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.400 not just all about the individual. It's truly symbiotic and both can really benefit 388 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:17.559 from it. Yep, it touches on so many of like the things we're 389 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:22.359 seeing change all at once. But again, going back to most of what 390 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:27.400 we've ended up talking about today, that personality of your people. Like you, 391 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.279 you hired them because they're also a good fit in your culture and your 392 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.440 team. So if they're sharing what they're passionate about, if you've equipped them 393 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:40.240 in the right way, like it does nothing except brand amplification. It's marketing 394 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.960 that's baked in and it's good for them personally. So it's like it is 395 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.440 a win win. But you have to flip the mindset. It's hard for 396 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.200 me to even go to that archaic mindset because of just like have the privilege 397 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.799 of like joining in the sphere that I'm in and just like have living in 398 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.240 this ecosystem. But you hear about it and you're kind of like, man 399 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.440 MIS I'm glad I'm over here. Yeah, I'm going on where I'm at 400 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.039 and I'm glad be to be is moving in that way, taking some lessons, 401 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.640 whether it's from B Toc or other spaces, but it's fun to be 402 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.200 on those, those front lines and inviting more be to be companies to this 403 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.359 way. So, Devin, thanks, man for jumping on here. I 404 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.319 know you're working on a lot of stuff. Tell us a little bit of 405 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.480 maybe what you're up to where people can connect. Clearly, linkedin and email 406 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.000 is what Devin has already said are the places. But tell us a bit 407 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.079 of what you're doing. Yeah, of course. If you want to see 408 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.880 some of the stuff we're talking about, for Gong, you know, go 409 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:34.640 over to you and go go to gon dot Ao check out the resource Shub 410 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.640 if you want to look at some of the content. Or, you know, 411 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.640 you can subscribe to our newsletter, follow us on Linkedin. For me 412 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:45.079 personally, also follow me on Linkedin if you like anything I said or if 413 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.119 you don't like what I said, you want to argue with me on Linkedin, 414 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.559 feel free. I don't respond to too many negative comments, but you're 415 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:53.599 welcome. But not I also have a newsletter, the content strategy reader, 416 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:59.000 where every week I go deep on one topic for content strategy in creation. 417 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.519 So it's completely free. Takes less than five minutes to read. So you 418 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:06.960 can check that out at the reader dot Com rbed. And then I also 419 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:11.319 have a personal branding course for Linkedin for folks that are interested. So partnered 420 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.720 with the folks over at JB sales or John Barrow sales put a course together. 421 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.720 It's about an hour long to see how to create high quality content, 422 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.400 build a personal brand with credibility on Linkedin. So if any that stuff sounds 423 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.160 interesting, go check it out. For sure. Yeah, we want to 424 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.119 invite our listeners to go do that, connect with Devin and and thanks so 425 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.400 much for for spending some time with us today. Man here on BB growth. 426 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.559 Of course, I really did enjoy Benjie, and you've got a skill 427 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.000 for this thing. Keep this in the edit. Don't cut this out, 428 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.680 Benjie, you're really good at what you do. I appreciate you. Thank 429 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.440 you. I appreciate that. For our listeners, if you're checking this out 430 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.119 because you saw Devan's name on the show, or maybe you're just interested in 431 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.640 content strategy and this one stuck out to you but you haven't yet followed the 432 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.400 podcast, do that on whatever podcast player you're listening to it on. We'd 433 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:02.160 love to stay connected and have you never miss an episode and definitely find me 434 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:03.319 over on Linkedin as well. I'd love to chat with you about marketing, 435 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.519 business life. I'm active over there as well. Just Search Benjie Bock. 436 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.319 Thanks for listening. Everybody. Will be back real soon with another episode. 437 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.720 We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. 438 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.720 If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need 439 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.400 to have on the show, reach out. Email me, Benjie dot block, 440 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.119 at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to hearing from you.