Are You Focusing Too Much on Your Email Strategy?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.250 Mhm 2 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah. 3 00:00:05.340 --> 00:00:08.260 Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of GDP Growth. I'm your host, 4 00:00:08.260 --> 00:00:11.650 timmy Bauer. I'm the content strategist here at sweet fish and my guest today 5 00:00:11.650 --> 00:00:15.840 is Tory kind like he is the marketing director at leeds space Tory, Welcome 6 00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:19.670 to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you. We're 7 00:00:19.670 --> 00:00:23.880 gonna be talking about a topic that I've been fascinated with lately. Email. 8 00:00:23.890 --> 00:00:27.990 I feel like every pre interview that I've been doing at some point we get on 9 00:00:27.990 --> 00:00:32.600 the topic of email. I wonder if things are really changing in the world of 10 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:37.370 email in marketing and uh you've got a point of view on this last time we 11 00:00:37.370 --> 00:00:41.520 talked, you said that email nurture programs are built in a way that 12 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:45.590 suggests people buy in a linear fashion, awareness to decision, but that's just 13 00:00:45.590 --> 00:00:50.380 not. So, So first of all, what do you mean by that? Yeah. So I think that a 14 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:55.970 lot of this goes back to years and years of marketers like focusing on the 15 00:00:55.980 --> 00:01:00.550 demand waterfall model. Right? And thinking that if we market to people 16 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:05.290 based on what stage we believe therein within the buyer's journey that it's 17 00:01:05.290 --> 00:01:09.790 going to expedite the buyer's journey. The reality is I don't believe that 18 00:01:09.790 --> 00:01:15.170 people buy in such a linear fashion. I think that there's certainly ways that, 19 00:01:15.170 --> 00:01:19.740 that you can use email and it can be, you know, a helpful tool as a marketer. 20 00:01:19.740 --> 00:01:24.060 But if you are focusing too much on email within your strategy and 21 00:01:24.070 --> 00:01:27.850 expecting that just by dropping someone into a nurture program that they're 22 00:01:27.850 --> 00:01:31.280 going to be that much closer to buying by the end of that nurture program, 23 00:01:31.290 --> 00:01:35.640 you're probably might want to recheck your strategy. You know, the reality is 24 00:01:35.650 --> 00:01:41.070 people do tons of research, email is one way that you can get some of that 25 00:01:41.080 --> 00:01:45.010 information and research in front of people, but more often than not, the 26 00:01:45.020 --> 00:01:48.620 best practices that people are using to build their email nurture programs was 27 00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:53.460 something that was written years ago. And the reality is that people don't 28 00:01:53.470 --> 00:01:59.330 actually By in such a quick timeline the same way that that folks are 29 00:01:59.330 --> 00:02:03.390 building email nurture programs. So to assume that just because someone, let's 30 00:02:03.390 --> 00:02:07.070 say, downloaded a white paper and you drop them into an email cadence that 31 00:02:07.070 --> 00:02:10.729 was going to take them through 6-8 weeks, let's say of of email 32 00:02:10.729 --> 00:02:14.290 distribution. What's that said that that person is going to be ready to buy 33 00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:18.490 6-8 weeks later. They might have just been doing a little bit of preliminary 34 00:02:18.490 --> 00:02:21.660 research when they downloaded that white paper. So there's just, there's 35 00:02:21.660 --> 00:02:26.200 too many assumptions that come with email nurturing and just in my career, 36 00:02:26.200 --> 00:02:30.000 I've just found them to be pretty ineffective. And I do think that 37 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.680 there's ways to use email differently than, let's say some of these overblown 38 00:02:34.690 --> 00:02:38.790 email nurture programs and I will also throw the caveat out there that there 39 00:02:38.790 --> 00:02:42.820 are email nurture programs that that do make a ton of sense. But yeah, I think 40 00:02:42.820 --> 00:02:47.780 as far as just trying to bring in new customers by dropping them into a, you 41 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:50.650 know, an automated email sequence, I think those days have come and gone. 42 00:02:51.040 --> 00:02:54.730 Yeah, well, I'm curious why you believe that, like what have you seen that has 43 00:02:54.730 --> 00:02:58.700 caused you to come to the conclusion that that is not email anymore. That's 44 00:02:58.700 --> 00:03:04.490 not how it should be done. I have personally bought hundreds of thousands 45 00:03:04.490 --> 00:03:08.040 of dollars, if not millions of dollars worth of marketing technology in my 46 00:03:08.040 --> 00:03:12.260 career and I can't remember a single time where I got an email from a 47 00:03:12.260 --> 00:03:15.490 company and thought, you know what, That's really interesting. I'm going to 48 00:03:15.490 --> 00:03:18.970 go check out that product. I'm going to buy that product. It's not how people 49 00:03:18.970 --> 00:03:24.450 do their research. And so to think that you're going to be able to influence 50 00:03:24.460 --> 00:03:30.430 someone's buying behavior just based on some arbitrary timeline that you use to 51 00:03:30.440 --> 00:03:34.720 build out an email nurture program. It's not a great way to go to market. 52 00:03:34.720 --> 00:03:40.560 And I think if you, let's say use email nurture in addition to some other 53 00:03:40.640 --> 00:03:43.920 platforms too, you know, maybe encourage someone along the buyer's 54 00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:46.970 journey or distribute your content, That makes sense. But yeah, I think 55 00:03:46.970 --> 00:03:50.760 people are just too overly focused on email over the past several years and 56 00:03:50.770 --> 00:03:55.540 as someone that has been in the, in the buyer seat before, I don't see it as a 57 00:03:55.540 --> 00:04:01.130 very effective tool. Yeah. Why do you think that so many people don't see 58 00:04:01.130 --> 00:04:04.030 email this way? Why? Why do you think that so many people are still doing 59 00:04:04.030 --> 00:04:08.330 email the way that it's been done? Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it is just 60 00:04:08.330 --> 00:04:13.340 because those are the known and locked in marketing tactics that so many 61 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:18.399 people have used over the years. And if you're continuing to use the same 62 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:22.070 tactics and playbooks, then chances are you're going to need to refresh at some 63 00:04:22.070 --> 00:04:26.640 point. But I think that the people that that aren't taking a step back and 64 00:04:26.640 --> 00:04:31.440 looking at the strategy or you know, maybe those that have just never really 65 00:04:31.470 --> 00:04:35.590 dug hard into the details of, you know, is my nurture program actually having a 66 00:04:35.590 --> 00:04:40.330 positive impact on a, on a sales platform? Or am I perhaps just looking 67 00:04:40.330 --> 00:04:45.800 at cosmetic metrics like email opens and thinking that, you know, if someone 68 00:04:45.810 --> 00:04:50.050 opened an email that led to them buying something that some of those kind of 69 00:04:50.440 --> 00:04:54.720 let's call them false positives, so to speak. So those are I think what has 70 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.200 created this issue and then just the lack of creativity and innovation I 71 00:04:59.200 --> 00:05:04.840 think is really more so the problem today that I just want to do things 72 00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:07.990 that they're comfortable with. So speaking to that. So I've talked to a 73 00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:12.850 few people who say, why are we constantly trying to reinvent marketing 74 00:05:12.850 --> 00:05:16.500 rather than just sticking to things that we know works? Why do you think 75 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:20.360 that this is not one of those places where we just need to stick to the 76 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:25.310 playbook? I question if it is something that really has has worked, I don't 77 00:05:25.310 --> 00:05:29.510 believe that like, you know, maybe 10 plus years ago when there just weren't 78 00:05:29.510 --> 00:05:34.640 a lot of other options out there. That made sense when let's say the sellers, 79 00:05:34.640 --> 00:05:38.190 the vendors had a little bit more control over the buyer's journey. That 80 00:05:38.190 --> 00:05:42.110 made sense. Nowadays, buyers are in control, they have all of the 81 00:05:42.110 --> 00:05:47.160 information at their fingertips and if you're not putting it in front of them, 82 00:05:47.170 --> 00:05:50.250 if you're not being creative with the way that you try to deliver your 83 00:05:50.250 --> 00:05:55.390 message and your content, someone else is going to. And so I think that that's 84 00:05:55.390 --> 00:05:58.680 always going to be part of marketing, right, is trying to innovate and evolve 85 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.650 and, and look, you know, a little bit ahead of the curve. And I think that 86 00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:07.560 sure, there's kind of something to the whole don't reinvent the wheel, but I I 87 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:11.330 don't think that this particular wheel is all that effective. Yeah. So if 88 00:06:11.330 --> 00:06:14.500 somebody was listening to this and they're like, all right, I'm tracking 89 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:20.430 with you Tory. How do I do email? Right, What's step one for them? How did they 90 00:06:20.430 --> 00:06:25.480 start? I think it's all about knowing and focusing on on the ideal outcome, 91 00:06:25.490 --> 00:06:30.800 Right? And the ideal outcome cannot be sales. That would be great if, if we 92 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.640 could just think about, you know, an email nurture program that was going to 93 00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:36.860 bring in more sales, but more often than not, that's that's not the reality. 94 00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:41.570 So I think being really transparent about what your, your ideal outcome is 95 00:06:41.570 --> 00:06:44.740 with the person that you're sending emails to. I think that's extremely 96 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:49.000 important and making those intentions known to the person that can be really 97 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:53.190 helpful to. So, you know, for instance, I think everyone's, you know, out there 98 00:06:53.190 --> 00:06:56.780 talking about trying to be helpful and sharing content and tips and tools. 99 00:06:56.790 --> 00:07:01.160 Yeah, that is correct. But you know, take a step back and look at if you're 100 00:07:01.340 --> 00:07:05.580 trying to help yourself or if you're trying to help out the buyer. And one 101 00:07:05.580 --> 00:07:09.780 of the ways that I think I've seen email be a little bit more effective is 102 00:07:09.790 --> 00:07:13.950 when you're transparent upfront and saying, you know, I just wanted to 103 00:07:13.950 --> 00:07:18.190 share this piece of content with you, I wanted to share these tips to me. 104 00:07:18.190 --> 00:07:22.360 That's a much more appropriate way to use email as a channel and you know 105 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.410 what, you don't need to put a call to action in every single email. You don't 106 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:28.480 need to drive someone to your landing page or to your website with every 107 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:33.760 single email. If your ideal outcome is to educate a buyer more about either 108 00:07:33.760 --> 00:07:37.370 what the problem is or how you can solve it, do that within the body of 109 00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:40.640 the email, send them all that information right there in the email. 110 00:07:40.640 --> 00:07:44.940 Don't ask for anything in return. That is a way to, to actually help someone 111 00:07:44.950 --> 00:07:49.870 versus trying to build an email that's almost click batey and really just 112 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:53.470 trying to get someone to convert on that email and go to your website so 113 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:57.980 that you can drive their lead score up. People have become wise to what happens 114 00:07:57.980 --> 00:08:03.360 when they click links and the automated cadences that that follow. So just move 115 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:08.050 away from those things and I think that you'll see that your email approaches 116 00:08:08.050 --> 00:08:11.680 your email strategies are going to benefit from it when you are more 117 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.070 transparent and when you stop trying to use it as a sales tool and instead 118 00:08:16.070 --> 00:08:20.550 really use it as just, you know, a form of communication, just like a podcast 119 00:08:20.550 --> 00:08:25.270 or a digital advertisement. Yeah, well, my last question for you Tory is that 120 00:08:25.270 --> 00:08:29.210 if somebody was wanting to apply your advice so they're honestly trying to 121 00:08:29.210 --> 00:08:32.409 apply your advice, Let's say it's me, I'm honestly trying to apply your 122 00:08:32.409 --> 00:08:39.880 advice. How could I mess it up? I think that the biggest kind of misstep that 123 00:08:39.880 --> 00:08:46.430 people will, will make is maybe relying too much on, let's say marketing driven 124 00:08:46.430 --> 00:08:51.250 nurture cadence versus they sales driven nurture cadence. So, you know, 125 00:08:51.250 --> 00:08:54.520 nurture in and of itself, that is always going to be something that is 126 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:57.780 important within sales and marketing, right? We can't just get in front of 127 00:08:57.780 --> 00:09:01.530 someone and never get back in front of them again. But I strongly believe that 128 00:09:01.530 --> 00:09:05.510 these marketing driven email nurture programs, those are the ones with 129 00:09:05.520 --> 00:09:08.710 issues, those are the ones that are problematic and there is a lack of 130 00:09:08.710 --> 00:09:13.990 transparency or it's too self serving, whereas the 1 to 1 sales email where 131 00:09:13.990 --> 00:09:18.970 you can actually personalize that's a much more effective approach. And so I 132 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:23.910 think the belief that email nurture is a responsibility of marketing maybe 133 00:09:23.910 --> 00:09:27.770 isn't quite so true anymore. And that that that should be, you know, if it's 134 00:09:27.770 --> 00:09:32.120 not a shared responsibility, something that the salesperson should really own 135 00:09:32.130 --> 00:09:35.260 as that relationship that they're trying to build the report they're 136 00:09:35.260 --> 00:09:39.930 trying to build, that's the ideal outcome of a nurture program is to help 137 00:09:39.930 --> 00:09:45.080 someone get your brand in front of them but don't annoy them. And I think that 138 00:09:45.090 --> 00:09:48.800 these kind of broad based spray and pray email strategies there an 139 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:54.310 annoyance, whereas a legitimate 1 to 1 personalized email strategy that is led 140 00:09:54.310 --> 00:10:00.010 by a salesperson and A. E and SDR. That I think is really the right way to do 141 00:10:00.010 --> 00:10:04.860 it, the right way to, to leverage email and not abuse email and still get in 142 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:09.850 front of your client or prospect. And so that would be the way that I think, 143 00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:13.390 you know, it could be kind of screwed up is just thinking that we can still 144 00:10:13.390 --> 00:10:16.500 rely on like these these marketing frameworks that were built over a 145 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:20.100 decade ago, You know, there's tons of great sales engagement tools out there 146 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:24.700 right now. So see if your sales team and your BDR s maybe can have a little 147 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:28.120 bit more of an impact with, with trying to nurture their prospects and build a 148 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.630 relationship rather than, you know, trying to to let the marketing team do 149 00:10:31.630 --> 00:10:36.380 that. Instead, beloved Tory, thank you so much for being on the podcast. How 150 00:10:36.380 --> 00:10:40.580 can listeners connect with you? You can look me up on linkedin, there's not too 151 00:10:40.580 --> 00:10:44.150 many Tory can looks out there, so I think you'll probably be able to just 152 00:10:44.160 --> 00:10:47.930 find my name pretty quickly. Awesome. Thanks for being on. Cool. Thanks a lot 153 00:10:47.930 --> 00:10:54.420 to me. Mhm mm at Sweet Fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful 154 00:10:54.420 --> 00:10:59.490 content on the Internet for every job function and industry on the planet for 155 00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:02.810 the B two B marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that 156 00:11:02.810 --> 00:11:06.630 mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this 157 00:11:06.630 --> 00:11:10.600 podcast, shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown 158 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:17.050 numbers, but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8. Just shoot me. Their name may 159 00:11:17.050 --> 00:11:21.090 be a link to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we 160 00:11:21.090 --> 00:11:23.060 can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.