Accelerating Sales with Unexpected Honesty

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:09.380 every one of our organizations. We have an opportunity to do that. Say this is 2 00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:15.500 what we're great at. This is what we're not. That's transparency. Hey, if you 3 00:00:15.500 --> 00:00:20.380 have not read the Transparency Sale by Todd Caponi, you are missing out the 4 00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:26.380 subtitle of the Transparency Sale. How Unexpected Honesty and Understanding 5 00:00:26.380 --> 00:00:32.200 The Buying Brain can transform your results. My name is Ethan Butte, host 6 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.190 of the Sea X, Siri's Here on B two b Growth, host of the customer experience 7 00:00:36.190 --> 00:00:40.700 podcast and an author myself of re humanize your business. Todd and I 8 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:45.840 share a lot in common in terms of authenticity, transparency, a 9 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:51.190 relationship, orientation and a lot more. This is a fun conversation that's 10 00:00:51.190 --> 00:00:55.460 helpful. Toe anyone, especially someone working in a revenue oriented position 11 00:00:55.460 --> 00:00:59.260 and, of course, very specifically a sales person. Enjoy the Sea X 12 00:00:59.260 --> 00:01:05.530 conversation with Todd Caponi. Transparency sells better than 13 00:01:05.530 --> 00:01:10.590 perfection, so the future of sales is radically transparent. The goal, then, 14 00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:14.620 isn't five stars or the veneer of having a five star product or service. 15 00:01:14.630 --> 00:01:18.740 Instead, our approach must be honest and trustworthy, something more like a 16 00:01:18.750 --> 00:01:23.990 4.2 to a 4.5 star rating. Thes air astute observations of today's guest, 17 00:01:23.990 --> 00:01:28.800 who operates the intersection of sales and science. He's both a student and 18 00:01:28.800 --> 00:01:33.070 teacher of subjects like human behavior, human decision making and learning 19 00:01:33.070 --> 00:01:37.380 theory. He served in a variety of sales leadership roles with exact target in 20 00:01:37.380 --> 00:01:41.730 Salesforce marketing Cloud. And a couple of years ago he left his role as 21 00:01:41.730 --> 00:01:45.720 chief revenue officer of Chicago's fastest growing tech company, Power 22 00:01:45.720 --> 00:01:50.180 Reviews, to write a bestselling and award winning book, The Transparency 23 00:01:50.180 --> 00:01:54.270 Sale. That's what we'll be talking about today. Today, he writes, speaks, 24 00:01:54.270 --> 00:01:58.190 advises and consults for a variety of clients, including LinkedIn Lesson Lee 25 00:01:58.190 --> 00:02:03.610 Show, Pad Emelin Data ZENDESK and Mawr Todd Caponi Welcome to the customer 26 00:02:03.610 --> 00:02:07.150 experience podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm excited about this one. 27 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:11.170 Yeah, me too. I feel like just in the way that we think and see things, 28 00:02:11.170 --> 00:02:14.940 there's gonna be a lot of, ah, a lot of kinship here and so much of what you're 29 00:02:14.940 --> 00:02:18.600 talking about because the Transparency Sail covers the entire customer life 30 00:02:18.600 --> 00:02:23.310 cycle from prospecting and email tips, which we may get into through posts 31 00:02:23.320 --> 00:02:27.560 through the handoff and through post sale. And so it really is end to end. I 32 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:31.970 think a lot of that probably comes from your experience as a C R O responsible 33 00:02:31.970 --> 00:02:37.050 for the revenue outcomes across that life cycle. But before we jump into it, 34 00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:40.260 tell me a little bit about your zoom background. It's pretty interesting. 35 00:02:40.260 --> 00:02:44.670 And for folks who are listening, we put video clips on linked in. We put video 36 00:02:44.670 --> 00:02:48.330 clips in the block post, which you can visit a bomb bomb dot com slash podcast. 37 00:02:48.340 --> 00:02:51.570 But I think this is gonna be pretty interesting even into the listeners. 38 00:02:52.040 --> 00:02:57.770 Yeah, it's, you know, I'm a nerd for sales methodology and sales philosophy 39 00:02:57.770 --> 00:03:01.540 and then behavioral science, but I've all of a sudden and I don't know where 40 00:03:01.540 --> 00:03:06.260 it came from. But I've established a new nursery around sales history. And, 41 00:03:06.270 --> 00:03:09.040 you know, if you go on to Google and you just search sales history, there's 42 00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:12.640 some people that have done a pretty decent job of it. But like I decided to 43 00:03:12.640 --> 00:03:17.900 go really deep. So I have a book that is Copyright 1947. It's called the 44 00:03:17.900 --> 00:03:22.390 Great, The Five Great Rules of Sales People, and it was written by Percy 45 00:03:22.390 --> 00:03:27.330 Whiting. I've literally read it four times. I have it all tabbed up. But 46 00:03:27.330 --> 00:03:31.130 then it references books from the thirties and then the twenties and, 47 00:03:31.130 --> 00:03:35.240 like I find those and they keep referencing back. And so I've been 48 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:40.320 really digging into what sales was like in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 49 00:03:40.320 --> 00:03:44.910 hundreds. And so for anybody who can see this, this is a picture of what's 50 00:03:44.910 --> 00:03:49.700 called the Drummers Yard. And so back in the 18 hundreds, the majority of 51 00:03:49.700 --> 00:03:54.100 sales reps were called drummers, and they're essentially manufacturer's rep. 52 00:03:54.100 --> 00:03:58.410 So they would represent a number of manufacturers and bring their products 53 00:03:58.410 --> 00:04:03.610 to the different general stores, which I guess you'd call retailers. And the 54 00:04:03.610 --> 00:04:07.350 drummer's yarn was something. It was like a magazine that would come out 55 00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:11.910 that would help the drummers to tell funny stories and tell jokes, because 56 00:04:11.910 --> 00:04:15.820 the original sales methodology, from their perspective, was, That's how you 57 00:04:15.820 --> 00:04:21.019 disarm is to tell a funny story, tell a joke or what they called to tell a yarn. 58 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:26.200 And so, like, this picture is of the drummers yarn, and you can see that the 59 00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:30.150 retailer is dying, laughing is the drummer is telling the joke, and 60 00:04:30.150 --> 00:04:33.720 everybody around on the train car is disgusted because the jokes are 61 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:40.170 typically kind of grows so nice off color. Classic eso. I'm going to assume 62 00:04:40.170 --> 00:04:44.250 that even if you're just kind of early in this journey, that there are some 63 00:04:44.250 --> 00:04:48.870 some truths that you may be assumed were fundamental that have maybe proven 64 00:04:48.870 --> 00:04:52.510 out to be. So what are a couple things that just in your in your walk back 65 00:04:52.510 --> 00:04:56.250 through time of sales? Like what? Obviously the tech changes, the 66 00:04:56.250 --> 00:04:59.590 products change. There's some nuances toe all of. But what air? Maybe one or 67 00:04:59.590 --> 00:05:04.550 two truths that became more apparent to you in this journey? Well, it's funny 68 00:05:04.550 --> 00:05:08.350 because, you know, I'm on linked in a lot, and it's amazing to me that as you 69 00:05:08.350 --> 00:05:14.860 go through the Lincoln Timeline, most if not, I would say 90 plus percent of 70 00:05:14.860 --> 00:05:20.070 the tips that are given on LinkedIn. I have managed to find versions off from 71 00:05:20.070 --> 00:05:25.440 the 19 twenties and 19 thirties. You know, there's a magazine called Tractor 72 00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:30.710 World magazine, but it was a magazine for tractors, right? May of 1921 had an 73 00:05:30.710 --> 00:05:35.650 article about, like the 10 qualities of a truly great salesperson. So again May 74 00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:42.250 1921. So 99 years ago, if you had these as an organization is your 10 today? 75 00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:45.770 You wouldn't be surprised by any of them. Like if you walked into a company 76 00:05:45.770 --> 00:05:49.430 is a new sales people and they're like, Here's our 10 truths of what it takes 77 00:05:49.430 --> 00:05:52.870 to be a great salesperson. You go. I agree with all of them and it's things 78 00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:57.670 like, You know, no, your products don't exaggerate. Don't ever knock your 79 00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:01.830 competitors, you know, have a good appearance. Like take pride in yourself 80 00:06:01.830 --> 00:06:06.440 every day. It's things like that. So that that was kind of the fundamental 81 00:06:06.440 --> 00:06:12.860 one is like Now I read these linked in posts and I'm like 1936. That guy said 82 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:18.550 that 1926 like it's amazing to May. So there's so much that was the same. Now 83 00:06:18.940 --> 00:06:22.340 there's also a couple of things back in the 19 twenties that would blow your 84 00:06:22.340 --> 00:06:27.340 mind about like people actually believed this as a good sales method. 85 00:06:27.350 --> 00:06:33.270 One really quick one is the concept of phrenology Germans chronology. You know, 86 00:06:33.270 --> 00:06:36.850 it was considered a pseudoscience back then, but it was the shape like, you 87 00:06:36.850 --> 00:06:41.880 know, analyzing a person's structure of their skull and making assumptions 88 00:06:41.880 --> 00:06:46.690 about their willingness to take on new ideas versus being on Lee Feature 89 00:06:46.690 --> 00:06:52.230 Benefit. And it was actually a a methodology that Ford used like Ford 90 00:06:52.230 --> 00:06:56.160 Motor Company used in the 19 twenties. And it was based on I'd read your 91 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.220 forehead and then I would make alterations to the way that I messaged. 92 00:07:00.220 --> 00:07:05.640 My products based on the structure of your head were like, Really? But 93 00:07:05.650 --> 00:07:09.190 seriously, yeah, it's amazing to me. So there's some things like that that are 94 00:07:09.200 --> 00:07:13.900 hilarious. I'm glad that chronology has gone the way of gross off color jokes. 95 00:07:13.910 --> 00:07:18.870 Yes, exactly. That's right. And I mean, there was some other ones, you know, a 96 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:24.210 Back then there were books on the psychology of sales. So today we're 97 00:07:24.210 --> 00:07:28.900 going like, Gosh, we learned so much about behavioral science. We really 98 00:07:28.900 --> 00:07:31.670 need to be taking that in the world of selling. But that's exactly what they 99 00:07:31.670 --> 00:07:36.150 were doing 100 years ago. Two. And a lot of the psychology still holds true. 100 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:40.390 Some of its kind of wacky. I mean, there was the chemists which are 101 00:07:40.390 --> 00:07:45.010 basically pharmacists back then felt that psychology was getting too much 102 00:07:45.010 --> 00:07:49.500 credit in the sales world and they wanted their take. And so there's 103 00:07:49.500 --> 00:07:53.690 there's a book of it's called Like What Sales people should know about their 104 00:07:53.690 --> 00:07:58.560 health from the 19 twenties. And it talks about what they refer to as your 105 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:03.400 duck lis glands, your Douglas glands or the difference between success and 106 00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:07.260 failure back then. And that's like your thyroid. For example, if your thyroids 107 00:08:07.260 --> 00:08:10.770 out of whack doesn't matter how good of a sales person you are, you're not 108 00:08:10.770 --> 00:08:13.440 gonna have the energy. You're not gonna come across the way that you should, 109 00:08:13.450 --> 00:08:17.270 and as a result, you're gonna fail. So we need to pay attention to our Douglas 110 00:08:17.270 --> 00:08:20.460 glance. So, so much like I could go on all day on this, but it's it's 111 00:08:20.460 --> 00:08:24.520 fascinating. It's good, all right, so let's get into it. Let's let's talk 112 00:08:24.520 --> 00:08:28.640 customer experience to start when I say that to Utah, and what does it mean to 113 00:08:28.640 --> 00:08:33.360 you? Well, we as human beings, we're wired to try to predict what our 114 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.770 experience is going to be. I mean, that's what really informs our whole 115 00:08:36.770 --> 00:08:40.350 decision making process. And that's why, you know, as you talked about reviews 116 00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:44.470 at the beginning, that that's why 96% of us look at reviews were trying to 117 00:08:44.470 --> 00:08:49.020 predict what our experience is going to be like. So when I think about customer 118 00:08:49.020 --> 00:08:53.850 experience, from the first touch to they're staying, they're buying Maurin. 119 00:08:53.850 --> 00:08:58.760 They're advocating that whole process. It's about setting proper expectations 120 00:08:58.760 --> 00:09:02.980 and allowing the customer to predict their experience. When we do that and 121 00:09:02.980 --> 00:09:07.650 when they find that it matches. That's basically the bottom of the line for 122 00:09:07.650 --> 00:09:13.060 what will cause them to stay by Maurin advocate so customer experience to me, 123 00:09:13.070 --> 00:09:17.600 and I know that that's thinking about it from my chief revenue officer 124 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:21.830 perspective. You know nothing like ruining customer experience by over 125 00:09:21.830 --> 00:09:26.550 promising and under delivering right. But if you under promise and you 126 00:09:26.550 --> 00:09:30.020 deliver at that level, you'll still have a satisfied customer, right? So 127 00:09:30.020 --> 00:09:34.100 it's about helping the customer predict the future, setting proper proper 128 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:38.160 expectations and helping to meet those. That's what drives the whole customer 129 00:09:38.160 --> 00:09:43.560 experience. From my perspective, I love it, I to my memory. And if there are 130 00:09:43.560 --> 00:09:47.110 any people who have listened as many episodes as I've produced, you might 131 00:09:47.110 --> 00:09:50.760 come up with another one, but it reminds me a little bit of chef hiking 132 00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:56.540 who you may know we talked about being slightly better than average all of the 133 00:09:56.540 --> 00:10:00.030 time. And that's enough to just like, you know, blow the doors off. The 134 00:10:00.030 --> 00:10:04.470 competition is the same thing, like just don't disappoint people. So I 135 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.180 really like your expectation management. I think it's it's something that we 136 00:10:08.180 --> 00:10:12.060 think about from time to time. But I don't know that we're dedicated to it 137 00:10:12.060 --> 00:10:15.450 as much as we really should be and probably even probing it as much as we 138 00:10:15.450 --> 00:10:18.300 should be. I think there a lot of feedback channels and you write about a 139 00:10:18.300 --> 00:10:22.330 number of them in the transparency sale. But I don't know that we're dedicated 140 00:10:22.330 --> 00:10:27.030 enough to establishing what the expectation was at one point relative 141 00:10:27.030 --> 00:10:30.920 to where the customer is now. It's really interesting. So another 142 00:10:30.920 --> 00:10:35.250 definitional question I would like to get to before we get too deep into some 143 00:10:35.250 --> 00:10:39.300 of the more fun and interesting and detailed stuff that we can get into is, 144 00:10:39.310 --> 00:10:43.800 you know, transparent and transparency. Obviously, that word is kind of bubbled 145 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:49.070 up in popular business culture, as have words like authenticity or 146 00:10:49.070 --> 00:10:53.680 vulnerability, etcetera. What does transparency mean to you in particular? 147 00:10:53.680 --> 00:10:57.200 And where is it? It's obviously different than those other words 148 00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:01.800 because those words exist differently for a recent but kind of walk through a 149 00:11:01.800 --> 00:11:05.270 little bit of that territory to get to get folks cleared on the same page with 150 00:11:05.270 --> 00:11:09.250 you. Yeah, so you know, first of all, like we've been talking a lot about 151 00:11:09.250 --> 00:11:13.750 transparency lately into my point earlier. Baltazar Gracie in Spanish 152 00:11:13.750 --> 00:11:18.090 philosophers. I think it was 16 forties, talked about transparency and 153 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:23.350 exaggeration back then. So it's, you know, a lot of what's new was old that 154 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:27.870 you know it is old, too, but so it's a great point when I hear the word 155 00:11:27.870 --> 00:11:31.540 transparency and I hear the word authenticity. Those air, actually 156 00:11:31.540 --> 00:11:36.100 vastly different words. You know, authenticity is being your true self 157 00:11:36.100 --> 00:11:42.000 and bringing you and like, Hey, this is me, right? Transparency is about 158 00:11:42.010 --> 00:11:46.780 expectation setting right? It's about if your customers, you know, I got a 159 00:11:46.780 --> 00:11:51.740 chair right here. If my customer was right there. Is there anything that I 160 00:11:51.740 --> 00:11:56.300 would talk about internally toe on? Lee my employees that I wouldn't talk about 161 00:11:56.310 --> 00:12:00.450 to them about the products about the solutions about the technology. 162 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:04.160 Transparency is about allowing the customer to predict what their 163 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:08.470 experience is going to be by telling them what might not work in their 164 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:12.720 environment. And what might work as sales professionals is client success 165 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.690 professionals is account managers. Our role is to aid the buyer in their 166 00:12:17.690 --> 00:12:23.340 journey to make the best decisions for them. Right. And our job is to help 167 00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:27.190 guide them through that process. And if we're gonna lose, lose fast. If you're 168 00:12:27.190 --> 00:12:30.360 going to do it, you know, if you're gonna lose, you wanna lose fast. The 169 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:34.470 best way to do that is to embrace transparency, Which is to say, You know, 170 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:39.180 Mr and Mrs Customer, here's some of the things that we as an organization give 171 00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:43.420 up to be great at our core. You know, one of the stories from the book you 172 00:12:43.420 --> 00:12:48.530 might remember is the you know, Ikea, but it it seems to be so relevant to 173 00:12:48.530 --> 00:12:54.000 people when they think about if you want to have a sales person, help you 174 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:59.430 design your your home like your living room and you're gonna want the 175 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:04.430 furniture delivered, assembled, maybe function wade or whatever it's called, 176 00:13:04.430 --> 00:13:09.090 you know, all that kind of stuff. Guess where you're not going like a right 177 00:13:09.100 --> 00:13:13.530 like Ikea. You're gonna find it yourself there's no sales person around. 178 00:13:13.530 --> 00:13:15.510 So you're gonna write down the code because you're gonna go to the 179 00:13:15.510 --> 00:13:19.200 warehouse? You're gonna pick the boxes, put him onto a cart that weighs, you 180 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.240 know, like the boxes. That way, a million pounds put on the cart doesn't 181 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.570 have brakes. Jam it into your car tester style, drive home with an injury 182 00:13:26.570 --> 00:13:31.850 or two. Get home and think, Gosh, I hope I left all the crap at the you 183 00:13:31.850 --> 00:13:36.140 open the box. There's 150 parts and no words on it. You swear your way through 184 00:13:36.140 --> 00:13:39.480 it. And then when it's put together, you're like you got a little endorphin 185 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.600 rush like Gosh, that was great. Maybe I should have bought the end tables with 186 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.920 that bedroom set. Let's go back right? And that's that's what transparency is 187 00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:50.660 it saying? We're gonna give up that experience so we could be great at 188 00:13:50.660 --> 00:13:54.360 giving you modern Scandinavian design furniture. You didn't pay much for it. 189 00:13:54.740 --> 00:13:58.740 I think every one of our organizations we have an opportunity to do that. Say 190 00:13:58.750 --> 00:14:02.870 this is what we're great at. This is what we're not. That's transparency, 191 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.680 right? And you welcome maybe the opportunity or you stayed the person to 192 00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:11.090 say. And if this is what you're looking for, something. We're not great at 193 00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:16.200 something that we maybe got dinged up on on a on a review because someone, 194 00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:18.810 because we didn't manage that expectation well enough, they're 195 00:14:18.810 --> 00:14:22.840 expecting something didn't deliver. You might like this competitors of ours Or 196 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:27.330 you might like this product or service alternative. Exactly. It's amazing how 197 00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:32.550 that disarms build trust speed sale cycles. You know, the one story I 198 00:14:32.550 --> 00:14:37.650 talked about in the book was the first time I tried it. So at power reviews, 199 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:41.870 you know, which is where all of this kind of jelled for me. The power 200 00:14:41.870 --> 00:14:45.150 reviews to help retailers and brands collect and display ratings and reviews 201 00:14:45.150 --> 00:14:49.260 on the website. So you're on crocks dot com or vineyard vines or jet, and you 202 00:14:49.260 --> 00:14:53.080 see the reviews next to a product that was power reviews, helping to do the 203 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:58.000 collect and display. But the first time I tried this, though it was it was 204 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:02.600 almost like, you know, that it was meant to be that I was in New York. I 205 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:07.350 thought I was having coffee with the head of e commerce of a major apparel 206 00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:11.620 brand. But when I got to his office, the first thing he did was point to his 207 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:15.530 monitor at his desk, and he's like, You can plug in your laptop for the 208 00:15:15.530 --> 00:15:19.480 presentation there. And then I turned to my right and all of these people 209 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.880 were coming in and they jammed nine people. It was nine of us in his little 210 00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:27.270 Manhattan office and I thought were having coffee. And, you know, the guy 211 00:15:27.270 --> 00:15:31.680 starts with he was New York in the best way possible and that there was no 212 00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.830 small talk. It was Todd we're looking at. Your competitors were looking at 213 00:15:35.830 --> 00:15:40.160 you. How are you? Better and like everybody is all geared up like, Okay, 214 00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:45.180 here comes the sales pitch, and I just I just stumbled upon all of this 215 00:15:45.180 --> 00:15:49.370 research and data, and I knew the science matched up, and I was like, 216 00:15:49.380 --> 00:15:53.820 thinking to myself, I'm going to try it. And so I just did the choice. It's a 217 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:57.200 bold choice in that moment, even though you know the science is behind you. 218 00:15:57.210 --> 00:16:01.440 Exactly. Exactly. And I was like, I'm going to try it and like, the good 219 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.750 thing is, I was by myself too. And, you know, I've never revealed this part, 220 00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:09.850 but like if it gets screwed up, there's nobody that I work with that can yell 221 00:16:09.850 --> 00:16:15.170 at me. So why not? It was perfect. And so I just instead of saying, you know, 222 00:16:15.180 --> 00:16:19.850 I appreciate the guy asking how are better But I said, Hey, listen, our 223 00:16:19.850 --> 00:16:24.330 competitors that you just talked Thio. They just release something that we 224 00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:29.120 don't have. We don't do so Can we start with that? Let's start with something 225 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.210 that they're better than us at, because if that's gonna be important, let's get 226 00:16:33.210 --> 00:16:38.040 that out of the way. And maybe I saved your whole crew here, an RFP writing 227 00:16:38.050 --> 00:16:42.220 and ah, whole dog and pony presentation. And they all looked at me like I was 228 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:45.680 crazy. But they all like you could feel them all just kind of go like the air 229 00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:49.280 comes out there like, Yeah, go ahead. I was like, Well, they just released an 230 00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:53.530 ad on and it's not ratings reviews, but it plugs in and here's what it does. 231 00:16:53.540 --> 00:16:58.910 And the first customer is Gap, which again, another apparel brand and you 232 00:16:58.910 --> 00:17:02.760 know, Gap apparently loves it, so they just released it not on our roadmap. We 233 00:17:02.760 --> 00:17:07.760 haven't even considered it and I'm not even sure we will. And here's why. And 234 00:17:07.770 --> 00:17:11.560 all of a sudden they're basically going back and forth going? Yeah, Why would 235 00:17:11.560 --> 00:17:16.089 we go toe ratings reviews technology company for that. If we didn't want 236 00:17:16.089 --> 00:17:18.670 that, how would we get it? And I'm like, I don't know. They just came out with 237 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:22.630 it yesterday. It was it was this, like, we're all on the same team type 238 00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:28.420 conversation. It was truly transparent. And within 15 minutes the conversation 239 00:17:28.420 --> 00:17:31.740 is over. He kicked everybody out of his office and literally showed me his 240 00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:36.980 budget, which I never had Anybody dio ever like, literally every e commerce 241 00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:41.300 spend fifth line down ratings and reviews. Can you hit that tot? And they 242 00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:44.330 made their decision 10 days later in what normally would have been a six 243 00:17:44.330 --> 00:17:47.850 month sales. Like when I was like, All right, I got to write a book like This 244 00:17:47.850 --> 00:17:51.480 is crazy and we kept trying it and it kept having similar results. And I'm 245 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:55.430 like, All right, there's something to that. But that's what transparency is 246 00:17:55.430 --> 00:17:59.650 is help them, you know? Be there, Sherpa. Tell them what the competitors 247 00:17:59.650 --> 00:18:03.870 does do better if that helps them make a good decision. I don't you know to 248 00:18:03.870 --> 00:18:09.090 that point about how I view what customer experiences. That's it. That's 249 00:18:09.090 --> 00:18:13.910 setting expectations. That's saving the customer. Four months of writing an RFP 250 00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:17.270 and going through this whole process toe on Lee. Find out at the end. We'll 251 00:18:17.270 --> 00:18:20.880 tell him at the beginning, and that's what truly builds trust to. And I 252 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.760 believe that there's still a great customer of power. It is so good. It 253 00:18:24.760 --> 00:18:29.270 tied together everything we've talked about so far, which includes this idea 254 00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:33.080 of dropping the veneer of perfection or a five star review and just being 255 00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:36.960 honest about what you're great at and what you're not great at. Its this idea 256 00:18:36.970 --> 00:18:41.750 of, What would I share if the customers in the room and would I guard myself 257 00:18:41.750 --> 00:18:46.080 with me? And would I, along with to my team members, not say something if 258 00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:49.750 there was a customer in the room and and again, this this true partnership? 259 00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:54.500 Ah, long term relationships starting off in the best way possible, and the 260 00:18:54.500 --> 00:19:00.750 reciprocation that that that CEO had is just fantastic. Here's my budget, right, 261 00:19:00.760 --> 00:19:04.410 like it's just this wonderful give and take which cheese up. The subtitle of 262 00:19:04.410 --> 00:19:09.590 the book. Again, it's the Transparency Sale. How unexpected honesty and 263 00:19:09.600 --> 00:19:13.870 understanding the buying brain can transform your results. So I feel like 264 00:19:13.840 --> 00:19:18.660 we've already done a nice nice drive by on unexpected honesty, right? Like it's 265 00:19:18.660 --> 00:19:22.490 just so refreshing. And I don't know how long this window is going toe last, 266 00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:28.040 where this level of honesty and openness and transparency will be 267 00:19:28.040 --> 00:19:32.180 refreshing. But we're definitely in that window. So let's flip a little bit 268 00:19:32.180 --> 00:19:36.590 and talk about the buying brain. What are a few specific to kind of sales 269 00:19:36.590 --> 00:19:41.840 process, or the you know, the customer life cycle or kind of a C R O type 270 00:19:41.840 --> 00:19:46.910 river like seat or hat or mindset? What are a few things about the buying brain 271 00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:51.720 that as you really got into this over the past several years, we're either a 272 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.080 the most impactful or be the most surprising? Give us a couple nuggets 273 00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:58.700 about the buying brain. Yeah, because, you know, as I went through this, 274 00:19:58.710 --> 00:20:02.780 there's so maney not only learnings about the buying brain that seem 275 00:20:02.780 --> 00:20:06.520 counterintuitive, especially in the way that you would implement them in sales 276 00:20:06.520 --> 00:20:10.000 But then there's a couple of tactics that have worked for me that now I 277 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.710 understand why from a brain science perspective. So let's start with the 278 00:20:13.710 --> 00:20:17.780 former, which is the kind of counterintuitive brain science stuff. 279 00:20:17.780 --> 00:20:21.370 And I think there's a number of people that have come to this conclusion 280 00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:26.310 because I'm seeing it more and more. But it's this idea that we literally 281 00:20:26.310 --> 00:20:30.390 use the feeling and emotion center in the middle of our brain to make all of 282 00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:35.560 our decisions, and we use logic to justify those decisions. Right? And, 283 00:20:35.570 --> 00:20:41.620 you know, the one story I tell happened right out in my driveway, which was my 284 00:20:41.630 --> 00:20:46.090 neighbor. He was mid forties, used to drive a Toyota Corolla around, and then 285 00:20:46.090 --> 00:20:50.470 all of a sudden, one day he pulls up in a It was a white Corvette with an 286 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:54.520 orange racing stripe on both sides. Eso you know, I'm taking out the garbage. I 287 00:20:54.520 --> 00:20:58.330 go out there and I'm like, Dude, where did this thing come from? And he was 288 00:20:58.330 --> 00:21:02.580 like, Oh, God, you know, here in Chicago, which is where I live pulling 289 00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:06.220 onto the expressway that Corolla at just every time I felt like Fred 290 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:09.730 Flintstone like I wanted to get my feet under and give it an extra kick. So I 291 00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:13.420 needed something that had really good pick up. And so I went to the dealer 292 00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:18.370 and they had 0% a p r. For 60 months. And I was like, Gosh, it's meant to be 293 00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:23.550 like That's not why you bought a white Corvette with orange racing stripes, 294 00:21:23.550 --> 00:21:27.650 right? Like, you know, obviously it's feelings and emotion, and he's using 295 00:21:27.650 --> 00:21:33.850 logic to back it up. Now that matters in two pieces. You know, Number one is, 296 00:21:33.860 --> 00:21:37.440 As it turns out, logic is polarizing. You know, you've heard about 297 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.980 subconscious bias or you know, that those types of things, but when we've 298 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:46.110 made a decision in our brain, so we're leaning in one way or the other. When 299 00:21:46.110 --> 00:21:52.360 we hear logic, we use that logic to either reinforce our feeling or thio 300 00:21:52.370 --> 00:21:57.070 create a counter argument for that feeling. Logic rarely changes our mind, 301 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.750 and why that matters to you in a sales perspective in a client success 302 00:22:01.750 --> 00:22:05.590 perspective you're trying to do up sales is that when we lead with logic, 303 00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:09.420 we lead with R A. Y. We lead with data we lead with studies were actually 304 00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:13.960 helping to reinforce the initial feeling. The customer head. And I'll 305 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.980 tell you a quick story there is, you can tell. I tell That's the stories. 306 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:22.950 But one of the great examples of what I see sales people doing wrong is leading 307 00:22:22.950 --> 00:22:28.670 with slides that are either. Hey, here's all the awards we've won. Here's 308 00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:32.910 all of our And then, like the killer is the NASCAR slides now, NASCAR slide, 309 00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:36.760 meaning your slide that has all your logo, your customer logos on it. There 310 00:22:36.760 --> 00:22:43.480 are 174. Most familiar logos that exact time were customers of ours. Right. And 311 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:46.430 we're so proud of it, right? Like that's why we put it out there at the 312 00:22:46.430 --> 00:22:49.660 beginning. Just like, Hey, look at us. Aren't we great? We've got all these 313 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:53.930 great customers. Well, if you picture you're doing a consensus sale, so 314 00:22:53.930 --> 00:22:57.720 you've got 10 people in the room or on the zoom or whatever, and you're doing 315 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:02.520 this presentation and you start with that. Here's what happens. Five of them 316 00:23:02.530 --> 00:23:07.710 I've walked in and they're on your side. They're just like Ethan. I'm I'm 317 00:23:07.710 --> 00:23:12.520 leaning towards you, buddy. You show that that NASCAR slide those five 318 00:23:12.520 --> 00:23:16.270 people are gonna go. Wow, If you know the things good enough for those 319 00:23:16.270 --> 00:23:19.770 companies, they're good enough for us. I'm gonna take those. I'm gonna file 320 00:23:19.770 --> 00:23:24.860 that in my I'm going to use that to justify the purchase. But what about 321 00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:28.450 the other five that are either leaning towards a competitors or leaning 322 00:23:28.450 --> 00:23:32.180 towards not doing anything at all? They're looking at that same exact slot 323 00:23:32.190 --> 00:23:35.630 that you're so proud of and using it against you. You know, a couple of them 324 00:23:35.630 --> 00:23:39.590 are looking at it going. Gosh, how many customers is this dude have? Like, 325 00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:43.090 we're gonna be lost in this like, we're gonna be a small fish in a big punch. 326 00:23:43.090 --> 00:23:46.920 Some of those a big companies were not that big, you know, a couple others 327 00:23:46.930 --> 00:23:51.540 might be looking at it and going just apparently heathens a generalist like 328 00:23:51.540 --> 00:23:55.620 he works across all verticals. Apparently, he doesn't know us like 329 00:23:55.620 --> 00:23:59.880 he's working, you know, CPG and a pharma. And like all these, it sounds 330 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:03.800 to me like this is we need somebody who's gonna be more of a specialist. So 331 00:24:03.800 --> 00:24:10.020 they just used your logo slide to make the decision not to go with you. so you 332 00:24:10.020 --> 00:24:14.980 know, that's that's a big piece. Logic is polarizing How we flip, that is, 333 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:18.250 through stories like, You know, I've got a whole pile of books behind this 334 00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:23.330 green screen of like How you know, story telling cells right? And and 335 00:24:23.340 --> 00:24:26.270 because it creates an emotion, it creates a feeling, and it brings 336 00:24:26.270 --> 00:24:29.610 everybody in. And, you know, I have a whole chapter in the book that talks 337 00:24:29.610 --> 00:24:34.750 about how reality makeover TV shows choreograph their shows. If you 338 00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:40.320 actually use that in a sales capacity, it has an amazing, amazingly similar 339 00:24:40.330 --> 00:24:44.300 response or outcome. And that on those shows at the end of the show is 340 00:24:44.300 --> 00:24:47.830 everybody's crying. Everybody's in love with the person that helped them 341 00:24:47.830 --> 00:24:51.110 through that journey, and and that's what you want. Then it follows the 342 00:24:51.110 --> 00:24:54.590 exact same choreography, but it it tells a great story, and it's very 343 00:24:54.590 --> 00:24:58.190 compelling for the audience to do something. And that's what you want 344 00:24:58.190 --> 00:25:02.550 versus leading with your logic. Yes, the story are the transformation of 345 00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:06.690 Here's where you are. Here's why it's not okay. Or here's how it could be 346 00:25:06.690 --> 00:25:10.120 better. Here's how I'm going to guide you through it. Here we are on the 347 00:25:10.120 --> 00:25:16.070 other side, etcetera. So good. So I want to talk a little bit about 348 00:25:16.040 --> 00:25:20.200 personal video messages Is something that that we do at Bom Bom. And I just 349 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.580 want to get your initial high level thoughts. You know, you've received 350 00:25:23.590 --> 00:25:27.810 several of them. You haven't actively used it a lot yourself, but so much 351 00:25:27.810 --> 00:25:32.650 especially this kind of logic versus emotion piece of it, and leading with 352 00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:36.760 emotion this idea that the vast majority of our decisions are made 353 00:25:36.760 --> 00:25:40.510 subconsciously, the book I co authored with my friend and teammate Steve 354 00:25:40.510 --> 00:25:44.720 personally called re humanize your business about this, this philosophy 355 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:49.450 and practice we leaned on Daniel Kahneman, thinking fast and slow system 356 00:25:49.450 --> 00:25:52.840 one system to which is, you know, a lot of the stool theory of the mind that 357 00:25:52.840 --> 00:25:56.920 you're just just sharing. And so I feel like we think about these things a lot 358 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:01.820 of the same way. And one of our premises is this idea that, you know, 359 00:26:01.820 --> 00:26:07.870 you're hiding behind Ah, cloak of digital anonymity, and you're not being 360 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.680 a It's very difficult to be authentic in plain typed out tax. Do you have a 361 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.640 an amazing chapter, By the way, on email tips, I don't think we'll get 362 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.200 into those here, but maybe we will. But you know, you know so many of the 363 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.520 things even when we do it moderately well, I can't feel like I know you know 364 00:26:22.520 --> 00:26:27.020 this idea of replacing some of your what would otherwise be one or two or 365 00:26:27.020 --> 00:26:32.080 three paragraphs of text with a simple, casual, conversational video. Obviously, 366 00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:35.740 we're all much more comfortable with that now. Now that we're all using Zoom 367 00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:39.500 or some video conferencing solution now that we can't get together in person 368 00:26:39.500 --> 00:26:44.120 anymore, what are some initial thoughts or questions or observations you have 369 00:26:44.120 --> 00:26:51.190 about using more of this kind of simple, unproduced, unscripted human 370 00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:55.340 communication earlier and more often across the customer Lifecycle? Do you 371 00:26:55.340 --> 00:26:59.300 have any thoughts about that? I dio ideo And it actually has everything to 372 00:26:59.300 --> 00:27:02.520 do with that email chapter, actually, so we're gonna blend them all right 373 00:27:02.520 --> 00:27:08.400 here? Yeah. I mean, I think first of all empathize with the people that 374 00:27:08.410 --> 00:27:11.540 you're selling to, right? And when we think about that, think about in your 375 00:27:11.540 --> 00:27:15.930 own world as you've moved up in your career with every step, your email 376 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:19.270 volume has gone up like there's no doubt right when I was a sales rep, I 377 00:27:19.270 --> 00:27:25.760 get 5 10 emails a day as a c r o. I was getting 100 to 150 emails per day and 378 00:27:25.770 --> 00:27:30.260 my commute. I live in the suburbs of Chicago. I was commuting downtown. It's 379 00:27:30.260 --> 00:27:34.680 an hour 20 each way on a train for most of it. So that was when I was going 380 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.920 through my emails. Now the thing thio The reason I bring that up, there's two 381 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:44.950 fold. Number one. Think about 30 to 35 meetings per week, right? So I'm just 382 00:27:44.950 --> 00:27:48.010 It's like junior high. Like I go meeting bell rings. I go to the next 383 00:27:48.010 --> 00:27:53.230 meeting. So think about me checking email or checking communications. 384 00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:56.780 There's there's two things I want you toe first. Really understand. Number 385 00:27:56.780 --> 00:28:02.710 one is that I always viewed my inbox. Kind of like the instant lottery. Like 386 00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:05.120 if somebody gives you an instant lottery ticket, there's a really good 387 00:28:05.120 --> 00:28:08.820 chance it's gonna be a loser. But you gotta check it because there could be a 388 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:14.000 winner in there by winner. What does that mean? Well, for me is a c r o. The 389 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:18.890 three things I cared about number one was my team. Number two was my 390 00:28:18.890 --> 00:28:22.770 customers. Number three was my prospects, right? So I'm constantly 391 00:28:22.770 --> 00:28:27.160 looking at my inbox and looking all right, Does this have to do with my 392 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:31.760 team, my customers or my prospects? And if it doesn't, it's gonna be deleted, 393 00:28:31.770 --> 00:28:37.240 right? Like, I just I love you unknown potential vendor. But on my priority 394 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.910 list, your you're literally like number 14, right? And I just There's not 395 00:28:40.910 --> 00:28:45.160 enough time in the day. 150 emails 30 to 35 meetings for me to go, I'm not 396 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.410 interested are tell me more like all that kind of stuff, right? So that's 397 00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:53.230 number one. Number two is Think about what the inbox then looks like. We used 398 00:28:53.230 --> 00:28:56.680 to say that subject lines were everything right, and we still see 399 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.160 articles about optimize the subject line. But I don't know about you, but 400 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:07.110 for me, you know my my phone, my gmail, my outlook. They all have a preview of 401 00:29:07.110 --> 00:29:12.460 10 to 15 words. And if you there's actually a picture in the book of my 402 00:29:12.460 --> 00:29:16.910 inbox and you'll see that they all are white noise, they all blending together 403 00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:20.690 every single one and the majority of them start with those three words. I 404 00:29:20.690 --> 00:29:24.230 wanted Thio like Todd. I wanted to see if you have 15 minutes. Todd, I wanted 405 00:29:24.230 --> 00:29:27.540 to see if you got my previous 400 emails. Todd, I wanted to see if you 406 00:29:27.540 --> 00:29:31.850 got my voice just on and on and on. It's all white noise. So I've always 407 00:29:31.850 --> 00:29:35.930 been an advocate for you know, first of all, you've you've got to empathize 408 00:29:35.930 --> 00:29:39.990 with that and you've got to stand out from the white noise and what is 409 00:29:39.990 --> 00:29:45.910 standing out. Well, Number one is personalized, right? Like any outreach 410 00:29:45.910 --> 00:29:51.430 that could Onley be meant for me is going to get opened, right? If even if 411 00:29:51.430 --> 00:29:56.010 it's slightly, you know, like, Hey, Todd, I linked in once drive me nuts or 412 00:29:56.010 --> 00:29:59.970 it's like Todd. I see we have, like connections. That's not customer. 413 00:29:59.970 --> 00:30:03.220 That's a person. You probably sent that same message to 4000 people. I'm not 414 00:30:03.220 --> 00:30:07.480 gonna check and see if you're right, but, like, personalized like this is to 415 00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:11.970 Todd Caponi like that gets, you know that breaks through the white noise 416 00:30:11.970 --> 00:30:16.960 Number one. Number two is valuable like make me smarter. Make me better give. 417 00:30:16.970 --> 00:30:21.860 There's a bunch of people that, you know, our sales experts that just talk 418 00:30:21.860 --> 00:30:25.730 about this. They make the analogy between the bank, right? Like you can't 419 00:30:25.730 --> 00:30:29.160 go make a withdrawal from the bank unless you gave first, right? Like 420 00:30:29.170 --> 00:30:32.870 there's got to be something to withdrawal. So as a c r o, how are you 421 00:30:32.870 --> 00:30:37.720 going to give to me, right? Make me smarter. Give me data on what SDRs or 422 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:41.100 making in my market Give me data on like give me a template to help me 423 00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:45.090 build my next board presentation that those were a couple of actual things 424 00:30:45.090 --> 00:30:49.470 somebody sent to me that I was like, That's super helpful. So you know, 425 00:30:49.470 --> 00:30:53.060 those are the two things, right? Like you gotta break through the white noise 426 00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:57.270 and you've got to make your messages personalized and valuable. And that's 427 00:30:57.270 --> 00:31:02.030 what gets open. And and so when I think about video, can you prove to me that 428 00:31:02.030 --> 00:31:05.360 this video is meant just for me? There's some that are doing it right 429 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:10.160 and some that are doing it wrong, but if you do that, you stand out like it. 430 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:15.250 Just it's break through the white noise, and I think video is a great way to do 431 00:31:15.250 --> 00:31:18.980 it as long as you keep those two words in mind. Personalized, Invaluable. I 432 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:23.240 think that's a winning combination. Love it. It reminds me what you offered 433 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.490 there at the end, and I have seen a lot of it. You can't take a terrible email 434 00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:31.550 and turn it into a video and expected to perform like spectacularly Well, 435 00:31:31.560 --> 00:31:35.340 we'll get You will get some shallow, quick winds, but you're not going to 436 00:31:35.340 --> 00:31:40.120 get repeated replies or repeated opens or legit engagement if it truly is 437 00:31:40.120 --> 00:31:43.930 shallow and it's just a bad is what it would have been as a block of text. And 438 00:31:43.930 --> 00:31:50.250 then I see a lot of I'm starting to see more fake, personalized videos, which 439 00:31:50.250 --> 00:31:53.250 reminds me of something that always turns me off because it just so 440 00:31:53.250 --> 00:31:57.340 violates the spirit of the gesture at all. Which is the fake hand written 441 00:31:57.340 --> 00:32:03.130 note. It's like, like all reason to do the hand written notice to say I wrote 442 00:32:03.130 --> 00:32:06.960 this just for you and put my personality on the page. My time and 443 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:11.290 attention can't be faked here, but apparently we like to try to fake a lot 444 00:32:11.290 --> 00:32:14.980 of things, something you offered there in running down and thank you for 445 00:32:14.980 --> 00:32:18.150 sharing your thoughts on video. Something you drove by there really 446 00:32:18.150 --> 00:32:22.290 quickly that I want to double down on or one of the 22 big takeaways from the 447 00:32:22.290 --> 00:32:26.360 book. One of them is that every interaction builds trust and confidence 448 00:32:26.370 --> 00:32:29.280 already roads it. And that was, You know, you're talking about making 449 00:32:29.280 --> 00:32:32.790 deposits and withdrawals and, like leading with value and building up the 450 00:32:32.790 --> 00:32:35.920 account. And then the other one is clients want their relationship with 451 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:40.970 you to be as easy as possible, which is a constant theme here on this podcast, 452 00:32:40.970 --> 00:32:44.750 which is essentially friction. Frictionless. You know, how do we take 453 00:32:44.750 --> 00:32:47.910 the pain? How do we take the confusion now? Give me thoughts on ease. What 454 00:32:47.910 --> 00:32:52.000 does it mean to be easy to work with? Well, yeah. I mean, it starts with your 455 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:55.990 positioning. So that's why transparency works, right? Because, you know, 456 00:32:55.990 --> 00:33:00.330 Gartner, three years ago, they had a study that came out that said that in a 457 00:33:00.330 --> 00:33:05.200 consensus sale, how to buy or spend their time. And it turns out buyers 458 00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:10.050 Onley spend 39% of their time talking to you talking your competitors or 459 00:33:10.050 --> 00:33:15.370 talking to their internal buying groups. The other 61% is doing other stuff. 460 00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:19.810 What's that other stuff but investigating your claims and trying to 461 00:33:19.810 --> 00:33:23.200 get at the truth again? At the beginning we talked about. We're wired 462 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.880 to try to predict what our experience is going to be like. And that's why 463 00:33:26.890 --> 00:33:32.530 analysts exist. That's why Glassdoor exists for, you know, employees toe 464 00:33:32.530 --> 00:33:35.670 leave. You know, current former employees to leave feedback on their 465 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:40.120 experience, their culture. That's why G two dot com is on fire and the tech 466 00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:44.640 space and trust Radius is on fire in the tech space. It's why Lincoln is a 467 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:49.080 great place for buyers to back channel to their own peers to find out. The 468 00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:52.720 reason that happens is because we are typically presenting our solutions is, 469 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.760 though they're perfect and we're leaving it to the buyer to go do the 470 00:33:55.760 --> 00:34:01.560 extra homework. Which is what that 61% is that 61% Not a foregone conclusion, 471 00:34:01.540 --> 00:34:05.450 like when you lead with transparency, transparency, you're literally removing 472 00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:09.290 homework. The buyer has to dio, and that's what saves time. That's what 473 00:34:09.290 --> 00:34:13.480 shrink sales cycle. But to your point, that removes friction. Now there's a 474 00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:17.780 couple other things that are more counterintuitive that I'm I've been 475 00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:21.710 kind of screaming from the mountaintops about, you know, one of them, and I 476 00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:25.340 think there's a lot of people saying the same thing now. But I was actually 477 00:34:25.340 --> 00:34:30.719 just looking at a technology for my own use recently, and the company set up a 478 00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.639 call to Dio, and that first call was a half hour of them doing qualification 479 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:41.500 questions and discovery. And I'm like, OK, well, like I kind of this is what 480 00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:45.920 I'm asking for and it's not crazy. I think it's what you dio and they're 481 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.560 like, All right, well, let's set up another call for a demo and I'm just 482 00:34:48.560 --> 00:34:54.320 like, Oh, God, like, just can we just get to it? And then the demo by the you 483 00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:57.640 know, it didn't actually use any of the qualification question information they 484 00:34:57.640 --> 00:35:00.950 learned. It turned out to be a generic demo, and I'm like, that is friction, 485 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.850 right? We've added a step. We've slowed down my ability to get at what I'm 486 00:35:04.850 --> 00:35:08.940 trying to get at. So look at your process, remove unnecessary steps, 487 00:35:08.950 --> 00:35:12.380 empathy, right? Your customers shouldn't need to earn the right to get 488 00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:16.530 a demo, and then there's like five other ones, but I'll leave you one more 489 00:35:16.530 --> 00:35:22.110 here. Lawyers are people, too, and I I used to argue with my own CEO about 490 00:35:22.110 --> 00:35:27.360 this, that we create friction in our contracts. We make contracting really 491 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:31.540 hard, like our company were just like, Hey, we gotta put auto renew language 492 00:35:31.540 --> 00:35:36.940 in there and put 60 days. They gotta give us 60 days notice or that they're 493 00:35:36.940 --> 00:35:42.900 not renewing or they're locked in right now. Maybe there's some mutual value in 494 00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:47.440 that, but I don't see it, and your customer is going to beat it up, and 495 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.330 it's going to erode trust to your you know, your they're building a road. 496 00:35:50.330 --> 00:35:54.050 Trust contracts are a great way to erode trust right at the goal line, 497 00:35:54.060 --> 00:35:57.470 like right when you want them to sign, erode the crap out of trust by putting 498 00:35:57.470 --> 00:36:02.090 one way terms auto renew language terms that say, every year it's just going to 499 00:36:02.090 --> 00:36:07.150 go up 3% or the then current C p I, or whatever the hell that is. We've got to 500 00:36:07.150 --> 00:36:10.790 remove one way language from our contracts and then create a cover sheet 501 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.730 with the contract that says. Here's our perspective on our language. And here 502 00:36:14.730 --> 00:36:18.630 is just so you know why we wrote the language we did and what our goals are 503 00:36:18.630 --> 00:36:21.950 on this lawyers are people, too. When they get that, they're gonna be like, 504 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:26.190 Wow, this company is cool. I wanna work with them. I wanna work on this one 505 00:36:26.200 --> 00:36:30.190 first. And so there's There's just friction points throughout the whole 506 00:36:30.190 --> 00:36:34.920 process, and contracts are surprisingly, one of them that get no attention. And 507 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.510 I think they deserve a lot of attention, especially when all of our buyers air 508 00:36:38.510 --> 00:36:41.860 remote and they can't just walk down the hallway to the legal department. 509 00:36:41.870 --> 00:36:46.290 Hey, did you work on that yet? Like we've got to take the onus to create a 510 00:36:46.290 --> 00:36:50.640 better experience, even at the tail end of the sales process, and build trust 511 00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:54.160 through the goal line instead of erode it. I love it. It's that running 512 00:36:54.160 --> 00:36:58.420 through the tape concept, and that's an expensive point of friction, by the way, 513 00:36:58.420 --> 00:37:02.590 when legal gets involved and all of a sudden gets scary, right, the person 514 00:37:02.590 --> 00:37:06.000 who needs to implement the solution or wants the solution is gonna benefit 515 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.790 them or their team or their customers or whatever is excited, ready to go 516 00:37:09.790 --> 00:37:12.860 like the check, check, check, check check and then the legal pushes it back 517 00:37:12.830 --> 00:37:17.320 or finance pushes it back. All of a sudden, it's like the size of the red 518 00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.500 flag. There is double sized for the person who thought everything was green, 519 00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:24.580 green, green. So really good ad there. And by the way, adding a video with a 520 00:37:24.580 --> 00:37:27.910 screen recording walking through the contract is a great a great use case, 521 00:37:27.910 --> 00:37:32.270 the same thing. But it allows you to kind of show and tell along the way. I 522 00:37:32.270 --> 00:37:36.900 love that. That is a fantastic idea the first time I've heard that, and that's 523 00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:40.680 what I would think. That would be a great use case because it humanizes the 524 00:37:40.680 --> 00:37:44.080 contract process again. You're trying to build momentum and trust to your 525 00:37:44.080 --> 00:37:48.680 point. It gets scary, but got you lose all momentum to at that that goal line. 526 00:37:48.680 --> 00:37:52.490 If there's opportunities to use video, I love, that's a great idea. You think 527 00:37:52.490 --> 00:37:57.210 I'm writing that one about good? Please Dio and and And Well, let's go really 528 00:37:57.210 --> 00:38:02.430 quickly here, so I wanna I wanna honor your time. You also offer just in terms 529 00:38:02.430 --> 00:38:05.780 of running through the tape. I'd be remiss not to talk about the great 530 00:38:05.790 --> 00:38:10.480 recommendations you make about the post sale experience in this idea. You know 531 00:38:10.490 --> 00:38:14.530 your your story there about the discovery call being just brutally 532 00:38:14.530 --> 00:38:18.790 painful and then not even being used in the demo call itself to customize it or 533 00:38:18.790 --> 00:38:21.520 to personalize it. Even though you spent all that time giving them the 534 00:38:21.520 --> 00:38:25.340 information. Same thing sales thio sales to see us or sales to 535 00:38:25.340 --> 00:38:28.980 implementation around boarding or whatever. Don't make them restate their 536 00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:32.450 objectives. Maybe I have heard recommendations where you confirm it, 537 00:38:32.620 --> 00:38:37.250 right? Like my understanding is you bought X, y or Z, or you already know 538 00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:41.110 that, right? So what are a few things that in that hand off that that you 539 00:38:41.110 --> 00:38:46.250 like to point to you? Well, it's funny. Um, when I so I was the S v p of sales 540 00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:50.940 of power reviews and I got promoted the c r. O role. And the first thing I did 541 00:38:50.950 --> 00:38:55.480 is I just I talked to customers, but I sat down with client success. I sat 542 00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:59.310 down with implementation, really looked at the whole journey. And here's the 543 00:38:59.310 --> 00:39:03.310 thing. The first presentation I gave to the whole company after becoming the C 544 00:39:03.310 --> 00:39:07.420 r. O just because they wanted, like, What's my perspective on this? What I 545 00:39:07.420 --> 00:39:12.110 did is I found a picture of an emergency room and there was a patient 546 00:39:12.120 --> 00:39:15.770 on the table. And then there's a bunch of doctors and nurses around, and I 547 00:39:15.770 --> 00:39:20.210 superimposed the faces of all of my clients success people on those doctors 548 00:39:20.220 --> 00:39:25.500 and said, This is current state. What happens is sales is selling and pushing 549 00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:28.300 it through, like get it to the goal line, and then they throw it to 550 00:39:28.300 --> 00:39:31.040 implementation. And it's the last time sales ever talks to them. 551 00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:35.230 Implementation has thes conversations about like, Wait, you thought we were 552 00:39:35.230 --> 00:39:39.850 going to do what you know all these crazy steps implementation jams the 553 00:39:39.850 --> 00:39:45.240 technology in just good enough and then sends it to client success. And it's 554 00:39:45.240 --> 00:39:49.850 like the dying patient going to the emergency room. And all of these 555 00:39:49.850 --> 00:39:53.540 clients success people or doctors or nurses air there to save the patient 556 00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:57.570 like that was that was current state poor expectations, setting terrible 557 00:39:57.570 --> 00:40:02.860 handoffs. And so what we did is we ended up creating a whole process, and 558 00:40:02.870 --> 00:40:05.560 this was like I didn't own it, but I don't want to sound like I took all 559 00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:09.170 credit for it. But there was a whole process around, you know, getting 560 00:40:09.170 --> 00:40:13.260 client success and implementation involved before the deal is done to 561 00:40:13.260 --> 00:40:16.960 make sure that everybody's on the same page, and then you slowly make 562 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.890 transitions throughout. Sales is getting, um, incentivized to make sure 563 00:40:21.890 --> 00:40:26.610 that the customers renew. And we saw that that first month post sale was the 564 00:40:26.610 --> 00:40:30.450 success or failure of them renewing. So Sales wanted to be on that first call, 565 00:40:30.450 --> 00:40:35.210 and they were now required to actually lead and kick off the kickoff. Call the 566 00:40:35.210 --> 00:40:38.660 implementation Kickoff call. So it was just things like that that we wanted to 567 00:40:38.660 --> 00:40:43.450 put in place to just make sure that expectations were set properly from the 568 00:40:43.450 --> 00:40:48.520 whole process. Everybody's incentivized to set proper expectations, and when 569 00:40:48.520 --> 00:40:52.880 clients success gets the opportunity, they could be more like personal 570 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:56.340 trainers that help you achieve more than you thought you could. Instead of 571 00:40:56.340 --> 00:41:00.490 emergency room technicians that air there to save the patient. Helpful and 572 00:41:00.490 --> 00:41:06.470 simple metaphors really, really enjoyed the transparency sale. I love that it 573 00:41:06.470 --> 00:41:11.650 is full customer life cycle. I think the psychology is right. The science is 574 00:41:11.650 --> 00:41:15.410 obviously right. I love that you're tracing it back centuries. It's so 575 00:41:15.410 --> 00:41:19.320 funny. We think of ourselves here in this time where you and I can connect 576 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:23.230 by a Zoom Aiken record the audio and video we can release the audio toe, 577 00:41:23.230 --> 00:41:27.890 multiple podcast platforms. I could chop up the video with software that 578 00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:32.350 way. Think everything is just so amazing and in a lot of ways it is. But 579 00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:36.090 there's so much that's the same as it waas 200 years ago. I think you through 580 00:41:36.090 --> 00:41:39.900 a reference out to sometime in the 16 hundreds and so far like the human 581 00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:44.750 brain, has not a fully adapted. I don't think toe all these to the base of 582 00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:47.530 change that we're in. And so they're these fundamental truths, and I think 583 00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:50.870 you really get to a lot of them. If you are listening to this episode, you've 584 00:41:50.870 --> 00:41:54.790 enjoyed this conversation with Todd about the Transparency sale and about 585 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.710 the things that he's learning and teaching consistently you're gonna love. 586 00:41:57.720 --> 00:42:02.690 Episode 44 with Corey Sheer Corey, a friend of mine, did his doctoral work 587 00:42:02.700 --> 00:42:08.310 on trust, value and loyalty in relational exchanges. That's episode 44 588 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.530 we called it the three components of Trust for stronger customer 589 00:42:12.530 --> 00:42:16.240 relationships. And then I did a solo episode about once a month. I'll do a 590 00:42:16.240 --> 00:42:19.460 solo episode. I just shared some of the things I picked up from. Another good 591 00:42:19.460 --> 00:42:23.570 read called The Effortless Experience. That one. I forget what I titled it, 592 00:42:23.570 --> 00:42:27.700 but it's something about three customer experience. Myths debunked, and the 593 00:42:27.700 --> 00:42:31.350 effortless experience offers a lot of the things that confused and frustrate 594 00:42:31.350 --> 00:42:35.000 our customers. A lot of this friction language, obviously it's about being 595 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:38.920 effortless. And I think if you enjoyed this conversation with Todd, you'll 596 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:42.650 enjoy some of the observations and learnings I took away and share on that 597 00:42:42.650 --> 00:42:46.420 episode. So, Todd, before I let you go here, I would love to give you two 598 00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:49.530 opportunities. One is the chance to thank or mentioned someone who's had a 599 00:42:49.530 --> 00:42:53.740 positive impact on your life or career, and the other is to give a shout out or 600 00:42:53.740 --> 00:42:57.700 a not or mentioned to a company or a brand that you personally respect her 601 00:42:57.700 --> 00:43:02.650 appreciate for the way they deliver for you as a customer. Wow. Yeah, those air. 602 00:43:02.650 --> 00:43:07.260 Good. Um, I think you know to thank or mentioned somebody, obviously. I mean, 603 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:11.800 my dad, my dad just passed a couple of months ago at the age of 98 but he was 604 00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:18.030 a salesperson through and through and a sales person that always believed in 605 00:43:18.040 --> 00:43:22.520 relationships and trust and transparency and came home every single 606 00:43:22.520 --> 00:43:27.620 day with a smile on his face. And that inspired me to be better at the 607 00:43:27.620 --> 00:43:32.690 profession. And, as I, you know, start to sit down to work on book number two. 608 00:43:32.700 --> 00:43:35.460 You know, obviously it will be dedicated him. But it was like when 609 00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:38.650 when my book came out to, you know, go to the nursing home and have him grab 610 00:43:38.650 --> 00:43:42.320 it, hold it and take a picture with It was like the greatest thing of all time. 611 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:48.680 I do have a I have a mentor. It's a guy named Scott and shoots who will hold me 612 00:43:48.680 --> 00:43:52.410 accountable like nobody else. And so part of the reason I bring this up, I 613 00:43:52.410 --> 00:43:55.970 think that this is an opportunity for everybody. Like you gotta find somebody 614 00:43:55.970 --> 00:44:00.260 like that that through my book writing journey like he was the guy that was 615 00:44:00.270 --> 00:44:05.160 just telling me. Todd, you have to say no through things like No, no is 616 00:44:05.160 --> 00:44:08.020 important. If you're going to get this book down and achieve the things that 617 00:44:08.020 --> 00:44:11.620 we've talked about, say no to that. Say no to that. And if I have to tell you 618 00:44:11.620 --> 00:44:15.240 to say no, I'm coming to Chicago I'm gonna find you right But like every 619 00:44:15.240 --> 00:44:20.220 it's a Friday morning once a month and he, like the meaning, can never be 620 00:44:20.220 --> 00:44:25.070 canceled. Its rescheduled sometimes. But he holds me accountable to my goals, 621 00:44:25.080 --> 00:44:28.540 my targets, and he's got no skin in the game. He's just a guy that I used to 622 00:44:28.540 --> 00:44:33.560 work with that I got to know. And so Scott has been just like a blessing 623 00:44:33.570 --> 00:44:37.400 through this whole thing. I just and everything. It's just awesome to have 624 00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:41.110 people like that. So I recommend if you can find a mentor like that, do it not 625 00:44:41.110 --> 00:44:45.980 just faras companies and and customers, man, there's so many, you know, I just 626 00:44:45.980 --> 00:44:49.800 I've always been really enamored by the way that Southwest Airlines does 627 00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:53.990 business that you know, Southwest Airlines, I look at as one of those 628 00:44:53.990 --> 00:44:58.180 companies that epitomizes transparency, that they're just like Ikea that they 629 00:44:58.180 --> 00:45:01.860 say, Hey, we're gonna give up on some of these experience, that experiential 630 00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:06.230 things. What you care about is, you know, getting to where you're going, 631 00:45:06.230 --> 00:45:10.780 you wanna do it comfortably. And hopefully the experience has been one 632 00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:13.910 that you're gonna have a smile on your face at the end. So they gave up all of 633 00:45:13.910 --> 00:45:17.340 the frills and all that they heard you on based on when you arrive, like all 634 00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:21.700 that kind of stuff. But, you know, talk about a profitable business. It's 635 00:45:21.700 --> 00:45:25.380 Southwest Airlines. And every time I've flown with them, they make me laugh. 636 00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:28.830 The flight attendants are funny. It's just like the whole process. I just 637 00:45:28.830 --> 00:45:32.780 think that's the kind of thing you know Ikea. My experience does suck their 638 00:45:32.780 --> 00:45:36.110 right, but I get it. And they're the number one furniture retailer in the 639 00:45:36.110 --> 00:45:40.640 world for nine straight years because they they're clear about, we give up 640 00:45:40.640 --> 00:45:44.150 this to be great at this Southwest Airlines creates a great experience, 641 00:45:44.150 --> 00:45:47.940 but they do it by embracing transparency and almost being self 642 00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:52.020 deprecating about it on. I just I really respect that. Yeah, I do, too. I 643 00:45:52.020 --> 00:45:55.830 thought their transparency campaign in particular was just absolutely 644 00:45:55.830 --> 00:46:00.100 brilliant. A to blend those words together, but be it just captured so 645 00:46:00.100 --> 00:46:05.100 much of what everyone likes about them and raves about so great recommendation 646 00:46:05.100 --> 00:46:07.810 there. There are several other conversations I wanted to have today. 647 00:46:07.810 --> 00:46:11.720 Maybe we'll have to do it on different episode. Your book. As an experience, 648 00:46:11.680 --> 00:46:15.110 you're a in the National Speakers Association. What? You know what are 649 00:46:15.110 --> 00:46:18.490 you trying to deliver us a speaker? How is that transition? Virtually so many 650 00:46:18.490 --> 00:46:21.640 places we could go, but we're going to do that in the future. In the meantime, 651 00:46:21.640 --> 00:46:24.790 if folks want to follow up, they want to connect with you. If they wanna 652 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:29.300 check out the book, if they want to, maybe engage with you to maybe do some 653 00:46:29.300 --> 00:46:32.570 discovery around a consulting or something. How would you? Where would 654 00:46:32.570 --> 00:46:36.820 you send folks to follow up on this? Well, that the two easiest places you 655 00:46:36.820 --> 00:46:40.860 know todd Caponi dot com, which is also transparency sale dot com. I mean, it's 656 00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:45.570 got links to me on linked in YouTube, Twitter, all of that stuff. And there's 657 00:46:45.570 --> 00:46:49.150 about 400 places where you can connect with me directly on that, and I would 658 00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:54.230 love thio, but then you know the other easy path if you I do share a lot of 659 00:46:54.230 --> 00:46:57.710 content on LinkedIn, so follow or connect with me if you're going to 660 00:46:57.710 --> 00:47:01.820 connect with me. Though I appreciate if you let me know where you heard me, 661 00:47:01.830 --> 00:47:05.960 that that always helps a lot. And then, Ethan, I'll I feed that back to to you 662 00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:11.000 to that. A lot of times, I I do a podcast, and I get, you know, 20 people 663 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:14.190 that are like, Oh, I heard you on this podcast and that that that helps me. 664 00:47:14.190 --> 00:47:18.680 And it helps you a lot, too. So so either the website or follow or connect 665 00:47:18.680 --> 00:47:22.660 with me on LinkedIn. And I would love to talk to all of you. And it's in 666 00:47:22.660 --> 00:47:25.680 times like this. I just I want to give and help is Well, so if there's 667 00:47:25.680 --> 00:47:29.180 anything I could do to help anybody, I'd love to. Awesome. Thank you so much 668 00:47:29.180 --> 00:47:33.570 for your time, Todd. Folks, you should connect with Todd on LinkedIn. You 669 00:47:33.570 --> 00:47:36.880 should pick up the transparency sale. Thank you so much for listening. And I 670 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:41.030 also welcome, especially with a note your Lincoln connection. I am Ethan 671 00:47:41.030 --> 00:47:44.300 View. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Thank you 672 00:47:44.300 --> 00:47:51.020 for having me. A. You can't spell transparency without transparency. I 673 00:47:51.020 --> 00:47:54.740 don't know if that's true, but I love Todd's call there. We often times at 674 00:47:54.740 --> 00:47:58.960 the end of these episodes get the Southwest, the Ritz Carlton's, the 675 00:47:58.970 --> 00:48:03.270 Apples, the Amazons, the Starbucks of the world. But we also get a lot of 676 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:07.770 other ones to some tech orientation with companies like Stitch Fix and a 677 00:48:07.770 --> 00:48:13.320 local orientation with things like Joe's Pizza or Cheetah Coffee. So many 678 00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:17.380 good responses with so many smart folks. If you want to hear Mawr conversations 679 00:48:17.380 --> 00:48:22.100 like thes, search the customer experience podcast in your preferred 680 00:48:22.100 --> 00:48:30.440 player or visit bom bom dot com slash podcast b o m b b o m b dot com slash 681 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:35.570 podcast. My name is Ethan Butte. It's a privilege and a pleasure to be your 682 00:48:35.570 --> 00:48:40.900 host on the C X Siri's here on B two B growth. Thanks so much for listening. 683 00:48:42.170 --> 00:48:46.390 It's sweet Fish were on a mission to create the most helpful content on the 684 00:48:46.390 --> 00:48:50.960 Internet for every job, function and industry on the planet. For the B two B 685 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:55.000 marketing industry, this show is how we're executing on that mission. If you 686 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:58.500 know a marketing leader. That would be an awesome guest for this podcast. 687 00:48:58.510 --> 00:49:02.050 Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, 688 00:49:02.060 --> 00:49:08.780 but text me at 4074903328 Just shoot me. Their name may be a link to their 689 00:49:08.780 --> 00:49:12.610 linked in profile, and I'd love to check him out to see if we can get them 690 00:49:12.610 --> 00:49:15.590 on the show next lot.