Transcript
WEBVTT
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People receive hundreds of digital messages a
day, from push notifications to emails.
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So how do you engage your top
prospects and stand out? By sending personalized
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gifts the old fashioned way. With
Sindoso, soandso helps you use gift giving
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and direct mail throughout your customer life
cycle, from lead generation to converting customers
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into brand advocates, from sourcing to
sending and centralizing the direct mail and gifting
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process. San Doso helps you scale
your gift giving, stand out and keeping
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your brand top of mine visits and
DOSOCOM to learn more. You're listening to
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be tob growth, a daily podcast
for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names
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you've probably heard before, like Gary
Vannerd truck and Simon Senek, but you've
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probably never heard from the majority of
our guests. That's because the bulk of
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our interviews aren't with professional speakers and
authors. Most of our guests are in
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the trenches, leading sales and marketing
teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting
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with tactics, they're building the fastest
growing BB companies in the world. My
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name is James Carberry. I'm the
founder of sweet fish media, a podcast
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agency for BB brands, and I'm
also one of the cohosts of this show.
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When we're not interviewing sales and marketing
leaders, you'll hear stories from behind
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the scenes of our own business.
Will share the ups and downs of our
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journey as we attempt to take over
the world. Just getting well, maybe
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let's get into the show. Welcome
back everyone to the BDB growth podcast series
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on ABM. I'm your co host, Chris Rudygrop, CEO and Co founder
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of Sindoso, and I'm here today
with Ben Copy. He is the head
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of marketing operations at live ramp.
Welcome to the show. Been Hey,
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Chris, thanks for having me.
Glad to be here today. Yeah,
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well, today I've love to kind
of dive into some specifics around operations,
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metrics, all that good stuff.
Some maybe you could kick it off by
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kind of telling me a little bit
more about how you guys have live ramp.
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Have really thought about ABM on the
operation side, since that's what you
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lead, for sure? Yeah,
so I've been a live ramp for some
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time now, for years, and
I've warned many hats and will say have
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watched the company scale tremendously in that
time. So getting started, you know,
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my first role is like an ABM
marketer, senior demand JEM marketer here,
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and this was the period of time
where, you know, we really
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established a lot of best practices that
I think will come back to a little
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later. But in a nutshell,
live ramp is a hundred percent account based
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in our go to market strategy,
both from a marketing and sales perspective.
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So maintaining, you know, a
good and agreed upon comprehensive list super important.
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We don't want to waste any impressions
on the wrong people. So we
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spend a lot of time making sure
that that's Really Well oiled. And this
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this properties itself across the marketing teams, across the sale teams. Every campaign
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that we run was targeting these accounts, to a subset of them as well,
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and so this has helped us get
to where we are today and now
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we are ensuring that, you know, it gets us to the next milestone
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in our journey as well. And
thinking about that kind of us. Since
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you've been since you've seen such growth
and you know, even a PM itself
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four years ago as kind of in
it to maybe a you could say it's
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in its infamacy. You know,
did you guys start with something more simple
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or simple apis or metrics and then
kind of you know, how has that
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changed from, you know, four
years ago to what I would assume today
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is much more advanced? Yeah,
I think, you know, not only
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has like the industry advanced a lot
in the last four years and account based
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marketing is much more, I think, mature from like the tech and platforms
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perspective, but also from how widely
adopted we're seeing it. It's the great
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hot topic of Good Buzz word and
it's sticking around. But I think that,
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no matter how you look at it, when you're getting started in a
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smaller company or just really beginning to
find the marketing strategy, it could be
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tough and say hey, these are
this is the exclusive list of accounts we're
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going after period the end. I
think in many cases that that stage of
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development you don't know enough about your
ideal customer or what your target market looks
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like to really make an informed decision
like that. So, with that kind
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of context in mind, where we
started was by really closely and becoming deeply
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acquainted with our with our wind and
the data for all of the opportunities that
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were closing and beginning to notice trends
and similarities with the types of accounts see
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work. So really early on we
started seeing trends with certain industries in some
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of our larger brand clients, and
this is kind of a catalyst for us
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to say, you know, maybe
we have something going here. And we
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actually ended up working with a predictive
scoring vender that helped us establish the protensity
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to close score for any of our
accounts that aligned with the close and lost
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business we had seen. Helped US
build a profile or a model for like
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what an ideal account looks like.
So it was about point in time that
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we had our first established list.
You know, this was about maybe six,
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six months, twelve months into to
me joining live ramps, and that
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was our transition from going industry based
focused to an account. THEA'S FOCUS and
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our list isn't exactly the same as
it was, you know, back then
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when we first established it, and
I think that's good because we take our
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learnings, we whittle the list down
or we expand it up it's needed.
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We prioritize certain ones over others.
But yeah, and that since I think
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knowing know where you're succeeding in the
market is an important first step before you
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get to the account Simon or the
account down finission that you want to be
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marketing to going forward. Yeah,
now, that makes total sense. I
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think it's you want to make sure
you know what you're going after before just,
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you know, starting to, you
know, execute on stuff. So
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that makes sense. In terms of
execution, though, and as it relates
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to direct mail and gifting, you
know, and some organizations you know,
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that function can fall on field marketing
and, some cases marking programs. I
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know it with your background of demand
Jin, that's can fall there too.
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I see you've, you know,
transition from a demand general into more of
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a marketing ops role, which is
cool, but can you tell me how
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you've seen direct mail play a part
of the kind of your journey there?
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Librahum, yes, and to touch
on the shift from demand Jin, you
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know I saw that as a critical
step for our team success. If,
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if your operations aren't dialed in,
it's going to be real tough to be
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successful with you demand Gen efforts.
So I was happy to take the role.
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I think with regard to your comments
on like direct mail and sending like
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gifts or any kind of mailers.
It's something that I have owned for much
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of the time and it's been,
you know, to be honest, challenging
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to find, like who's the best
fit person in the organization to own something
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like this? Was a little simpler
when we were smaller, but now we're
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beginning to see that there's overlap with
like our customer Bac Marketing Role. Our
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email marketer wants to be able to
include this stuff in their campaigns. Their
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big opportunities on customer success and even
recruiting to leverage is kind of technology.
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So I try not to act as
a gatekeeper and really open this up for
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other use cases. But to really
scale those other use cases, I think
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you got to have kind of a
kind of sponsor advocate on each of those
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teams to really help boost, boost
your usage or your adoption or methods in
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which people are going to be sending
stuff out. Yeah, I know that
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makes to all sense. And kind
of decentralizing that from being kind of you
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as this Sol Git, kind of
gatekeeper executor to giving, you know,
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tool in the hands of sales team. I think it sounds like a very
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successful strategy for you. Yeah,
it's been it's been helpful. I think.
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You know, we do a lot
of internal marketing. It's say.
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It's like make people aware of this
stuff. You know, we've gone from
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like a small start up to a
large enterprize. Like it's important not to
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take for granted that, you know, everyone is just aware of all the
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great things that you have in place. So it's like a constant drum beat
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to be sure people know what is
available to them that can help them be
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more effective in their sales or their
outreach and to provide like training and resources
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to I will often like poll some
data to say, like how is direct
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mail performing? What are some examples
of like some really interesting strategies people and
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use that were successful, or what's
like a new approach someone taking? And
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I like to just post those too, like a flack channel here, you
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know, and let people know and
drop in the link of, you know,
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how they can request access if they're
interested, and those kind of little
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little moment when carve out ten minutes
from your day to talk about the impact
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something like that is having. I
have found to be really helpful to get
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people interested and kind of raise their
hand and say how do I get in
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on this? Yeah, I know
that's awesome to hear from the other side
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of that kind of going to the
top of them the team. Thinking of
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from an exact standpoint. You know, have you if you've done a good
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job of kind of aligning with the
executive team from an ABM strategy perspective?
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I think that's the most critical thing
that you could possibly do it as somebody
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who's came to align your ABM efforts, we have had, I'd say,
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pretty good alignment most of the time
here. You know, we were really
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solid on the list for the first
couple of years and we had a period
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of like really fast, really big
growth, you know, and there was
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a lot of transitions and, you
know, kind of, I guess,
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territory changes or like group changes in
the organization, just a lot of change
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period and as such, I think
focus on that list and why it is
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the way it is is something that
people just didn't know or hasn't been exposed
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to or it was kind of like
a afterthought. And so about a year
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ago, like I recognize that it
was beginning to break down because all of
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a sudden are, you know,
top accountsliss wasn't aligning with what the failed
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leadership team and executives were, seems
so. My advice there is like keep
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your ears open, you know,
keep a real strong pulse on what's going
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on in the organization and if you
if you see a signal or if something
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you know comes across your death indicates
it could be in jeopardy or you know,
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something missal lines like, just just
tackle it, you know, fast
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and hard. You know, it's
really important to make sure everybody's working off
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of the same list, or else
it just quickly becomes chaotic. So one
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thing that's been helpful for me and
my team to kind of get this alignment
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with the executive is to demonstrate the
success that we're seeing and talk about,
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you know, just in very practical
terms, how it's helping us run our
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business. And you know, when
we explain concepts that are to a demand
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Gen marketer or marketing out person,
you know that would be relatively simple,
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such as like this list will inform
our online advertising campaign or these accounts will
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be eligible for a direct mail send. You know, those things aren't evidence
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to people that aren't as close to
that part of the business and it helps
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expose just really tangible reasons. You
know, why it's important to Keep That
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List Well oiled. So I think
first and foremost, get a seat with
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your sales up team. You know, make sure you're in on their weekly
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or BI weekly meetings. Advocate for, you know, any kind of categorization
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you need to make sure your accounts
can be clearly and easily identifiable. You
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know, try to get them to
think about tears of importance. You know
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you want to make sure you've got
a good mechanism in there that makes it
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easy for the marketers to pull the
accounts in the sales team to work accounts
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to totally. And then, after
all that, I know that you're since
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you've owned the marketing out side and
you know are probably left nerding out over
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the data. there. has there
been any kind of key ABM related metrics
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that you guys look at or any
kind of learnings that you've seen from kind
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of a metric side? I have
been working on a very interesting project with
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our data scientists recently that's kind of
helping us to expose more of what we're
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contributing in our multi touch attribution model. I kind of worked with him to
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develop this journey to kind of like
articulates every single touch point that happens on
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an account from awareness to revenue for
any given opportunity. So when interesting learning
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that we had, very quickly after
this had been established and we could start
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looking at these journeys was we thought
we knew what the duration of the sales
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cycle was and kind of what is
went into moving the needle forward for means,
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you know, we were assuming,
yeah, it's about a six nine
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month sale cycle, but when we
started looking at this journey we were very
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surprised to see that in many cases, like that first touch moment where the
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account became aware happened like several years
earlier. And and bringing that little story
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full circle, many of the opportunities
that started looking at had had these early
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postcard touches that we did like years
ago, that we logged this campaign responses,
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which delivery, and that helps.
You know, I I believe you
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know this was an important moment of
creating awareness of these account you know,
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there were at least a dozen in
opportunities that I had seen closed this year
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that had these direct mail touch points
very early on pre pipeline, in many
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cases even before the person became a
hand raiser, you know, like by
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coming to the library. Well,
it's something that I never would have been
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exposed to had I not, you
know, taken a time to look at
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all of the touch points that were
happening both pre pipeline and during pipeline,
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inclusive of leads, contacts, you
know, anyone that fits within this model,
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within the time period of this opportunity
within the buying group. It was
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just it blew my mind to see
all the different campaign elements from different channels
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that went into engage in these accounts, and direct mail was definitely coming up
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as an effective way to get people
engaged early on. That's really cool.
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And so do you have like a
data scientist that reports into you, that's
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on your team, or are you
just borrowing some of their time from the
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engineering side? We do have a
data scientist, yes, and it has
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been an extremely like big value add
for our team in helping wrangle all the
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data we're working with, you know, sales force data or visible data,
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Marquetta data, data from our product, you know, seeing how people are
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using it, advertising impressions, you
know our actual product data, because we
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like to drink our own champagne.
I had spent hours, you know,
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running like sometimes twelve, fifteen different
from reports from a variety of systems to
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kind of pull this stuff together.
So it was clearly not a an effective
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way, you know, for me
to be pulling these insight, even though
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they were valuable enough to pull and
having a fulltime data sciences here's a really
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streamline that for us as as made
us a lot more efficient with, you
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know, just general data driven insights
that were able to glean. Yeah,
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I love that. I don't think
I hear that enough terms of you know,
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marketing offs teams getting data. Scientists
are really truly kind of Geek out
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over the data enough. Sometimes it's
just kind of surface level stuff. So
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that's awesome to hear and I hope
more companies kind of adopt that so there's
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more, you know, data trends
and data studies that come from that.
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So yeah, and it's creating an
environment where we kind of have to change
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the I think the culture, you
know, or the way that we think
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about campaign production to on the marketing
team. You know, if you sat
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everyone on the marketing team at live
ran down a couple of years ago and
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said like, tell me what it
means to be data driven, I think
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well, I know you would have
heard a lot of people say things like
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ab testing your email subject lines.
Right, but today we're beginning to move
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people in a direction of like is
this campaign or is this type of channel
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like actually moving the needle in terms
of revenue or net new logo acquisition for
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the company is helping out to achieve
these broader goals. You know, not
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to say there's not a place for
testing your subject lines. This is a,
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you know, campaign in optimization tactic, but if you want to demonstrate
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the value that that you're marketing strategy
is having for the company, I think
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having, especially at this scale,
having a data scientist who can help you
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tell that story in the most effective
way possible and with a real big value,
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that awesome. Well, I think
that's one of the greatest takeaways from
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today's conversation. I hope that others
listening can leverage this podcast. Maybe sure
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with their teams, get some executive
buy in on getting some data scientists on
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their marketing offs team. Very cool. Well, Ben Thank you so much
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for your time today. This was
awesome talking to you. You know,
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if you're listening and you haven't subscribed
yet, please subscribe to the B Tob
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00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.529
Growth podcast series. We've got a
ton of great speakers lined up and again,
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thank you so much for listening.
And then it was great talking to
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you. Love the details, the
advice and everything that you're doing. It
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was my pleasure. Keep up the
good work over there. It's in those
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so crips. Love what you're doing. Thanks. Then, we totally get
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it. We publish a ton of
content on this podcast and it can be
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00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.549
a lot to keep up with.
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