#ABM 11: What You Lose When You Scale ABM w/ Justin Keller

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.440 People receive hundreds of digital messages a day, from push notifications to emails. 2 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:10.710 So how do you engage your top prospects and stand out? By sending personalized 3 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:15.310 gifts the old fashioned way. With Sindoso, soandso helps you use gift giving 4 00:00:15.390 --> 00:00:20.190 and direct mail throughout your customer life cycle, from lead generation to converting customers 5 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:25.820 into brand advocates, from sourcing to sending and centralizing the direct mail and gifting 6 00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:29.940 process. San Doso helps you scale your gift giving, stand out and keeping 7 00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:38.729 your brand top of mine visits and DOSOCOM to learn more. You're listening to 8 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:43.649 be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names 9 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:47.329 you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and Simon Senek, but you've 10 00:00:47.409 --> 00:00:51.479 probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of 11 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:56.079 our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in 12 00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:00.799 the trenches, leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting 13 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.430 with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies in the world. My 14 00:01:04.510 --> 00:01:07.829 name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast 15 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.390 agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. 16 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:15.750 When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind 17 00:01:15.790 --> 00:01:19.060 the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our 18 00:01:19.099 --> 00:01:25.099 journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe 19 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:34.370 let's get in this show. Welcome back to the ABM series on the btob 20 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:38.010 gross show. I'm your cohost stand fron and Cmo at Sindo. So today 21 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:42.650 I'm with Justin Keller and he's the VP of marketing at sixer. Justin. 22 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:45.930 Thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you, Dan. I'm glad 23 00:01:45.930 --> 00:01:48.480 to be here with you. Awesome. Yeah, I love starting my days 24 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:52.359 this way talking to Super Smart People. So I think before we get started, 25 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.959 I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about sixter and something 26 00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:00.469 that I heard yesterday around your new partnership with terminus. What's that all about? 27 00:02:00.790 --> 00:02:06.030 Yeah, yeah, so six years been around for four years and maybe 28 00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:08.310 not quite four years, and start with a super simple idea around kind of 29 00:02:08.349 --> 00:02:12.310 making everyone signature look the same. Right, super simple promise, and I 30 00:02:12.389 --> 00:02:15.259 love like basic idea to turn into something much bigger. Once we kind of 31 00:02:15.259 --> 00:02:19.500 built that out, we realize, holy crap, we're sitting on a massive 32 00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:23.819 distribution channel that no one's taking advantage of right so we built a capability to 33 00:02:23.860 --> 00:02:28.539 consert targeted dynamic called action banners in the signature section. So we're basically turning 34 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:31.610 and ployee email onto a high volume ad channel. And then about a year 35 00:02:31.610 --> 00:02:35.569 and a half ago, we realized, Oh my God, there's even more 36 00:02:35.650 --> 00:02:38.250 here than we thought. There's such like a wealth of analytics that are, 37 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:42.770 you know, untapped and unused by marketing that are so important, especially this 38 00:02:42.810 --> 00:02:46.400 marketing and sales get tighter, and that's around the relationships that are developed over 39 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.000 email. Like email is the lifeblood of business. That's where majority of community 40 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.759 communication happens and if we can kind of better understand in mind that data, 41 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:58.360 then we can quantify relationships. They're going to be really useful to revenue teams. 42 00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:00.789 And so between those two things, the add channel and, you know, 43 00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:06.629 engage in analytics, terminus made a strategic decision to acquire as so we 44 00:03:06.710 --> 00:03:10.189 are now a perminent brand as of yesterday, which is super exciting, and 45 00:03:10.430 --> 00:03:14.259 we got a really big vision for the future on how these companies are going 46 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:16.020 to come together. Bravo that. I can't wait to see that unfold. 47 00:03:16.060 --> 00:03:21.539 I think the way that you describe it and affected email is probably, by 48 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:24.539 and large, the the largest single impression channel on the planet. On the 49 00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:28.169 BTB side. It's going to be amazing to see what you guys do together. 50 00:03:28.729 --> 00:03:30.969 We're really excited. So today we're going to talk to you a little 51 00:03:30.969 --> 00:03:36.569 bit about how you took your marketing strategy at six turn and really became account 52 00:03:36.650 --> 00:03:40.560 focus. But before we dive into that topic, I'm always fascinated with people's 53 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.960 backstories. I think it's valuable for our listeners to hear how you got to 54 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:51.560 your VP of marketing role at six to tell us how your journey unfolded and 55 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:55.750 maybe how the audience can get to where you are. Absolutely yeah. I 56 00:03:55.789 --> 00:04:00.270 mean I think you know pretty humble beginnings right just kind of from a small 57 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:03.750 town in Indiana. I was a brief seat of starbucks to college and then, 58 00:04:03.870 --> 00:04:08.830 my first time out of project, got a really unique opportunity, it 59 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:13.539 sounded it on paper, which was to go work for a serial entrepreneur in 60 00:04:13.659 --> 00:04:17.939 Indianapolis. This was the guy that invented voicemail that we all use and you 61 00:04:18.019 --> 00:04:20.300 are used to use. I guess probably. I don't think peo, please 62 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:24.139 voicemail like they did. Go Work for him and I'm like, you know, 63 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.730 sounds like a great person to learn from, and that kind of like 64 00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:30.290 great person to learn from. Can See is kind of has driven a lot 65 00:04:30.329 --> 00:04:34.050 of my decisions in my career. But the job wasn't as a great at 66 00:04:34.089 --> 00:04:40.319 the START I was basically working in a air condition to warehouse organizing about thirty 67 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.279 years of his life in the shelves. So it was ruling. It was 68 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.079 awful, but the payoff was there because you know, being around them all 69 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.000 the time. He was to start a new company and asked if I'd like 70 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.910 to help him build it. So I was a first employee. The company 71 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:57.750 called Cha Cha, which was back in the day before iphones for ubiquitous and 72 00:04:57.870 --> 00:05:00.990 people were just kind of had the flip phones. It was a service you 73 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:03.709 could set you you could text with the question, so basically a text based 74 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:09.100 search engine, and it took off like a rocket. We went from kind 75 00:05:09.139 --> 00:05:13.540 of being a start up to being the fifty most visited website on the Internet 76 00:05:13.540 --> 00:05:17.379 in about two years. Really huge growth curve. But then the iphone came 77 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:21.449 out and I saw the writing on the wall and didn't know exactly what featured 78 00:05:21.529 --> 00:05:26.449 company look like, but I did know that I wanted to do high gras 79 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:30.810 peck really kind of leading a stuff full for so I went and I got 80 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:35.000 my Mba and the day after I graduated I packed up my car and I 81 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.319 just drove the San Francisco. I cut, surfed, I tried to meet 82 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:44.399 people, I sent cold emails, see Yos and finally one rope back and 83 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:46.000 it's like hey, you know, come, come, stop buying with chat. 84 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:49.509 And so I was lucky to find a guy that was willing to take 85 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:54.589 a chance on some known kids from the Midwest and kind of started running a 86 00:05:54.589 --> 00:05:57.589 marketing program and I had not done that before, but it's one of those 87 00:05:57.589 --> 00:06:00.910 things where I acted like I'd always been doing this. Right now it's kind 88 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:02.910 of you know, they'll take it to you make it grave. was exactly 89 00:06:02.949 --> 00:06:06.939 what I did. Had A good run there. Ran a few more marketing 90 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:12.180 teams in the bay area, kind of just sharpening my marketing nights the whole 91 00:06:12.220 --> 00:06:15.180 time I was out there and then my wife, when night, looked at 92 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:15.980 me and said, you know, I'd like to get back from mid West 93 00:06:16.060 --> 00:06:18.730 at some point. We've got parents are getting older, we got cut niece, 94 00:06:18.810 --> 00:06:21.370 his nephew's being to getting older and she wanted to be part of that, 95 00:06:21.930 --> 00:06:24.889 and so I said sure, you know, one Thousan eight hund twenty 96 00:06:24.889 --> 00:06:27.129 four months from now, let's let's definitely, you know, back up the 97 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:30.449 wagon and head back east and as soon as the universuard that. Pardon me 98 00:06:30.449 --> 00:06:33.560 say that. Two weeks later I was on a flight to indianapolist interview with 99 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.639 sister and I've been here for about two and a half years now and it 100 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.600 has been probably most rewarding part of my career so far. I just love 101 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.959 working with the team here and I love all the things you're doing. Now. 102 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.350 That's a that's an amazing journey. I think there's so many similarities to 103 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:49.949 what you've done and what I've done. I started by changing oil when I 104 00:06:49.949 --> 00:06:54.990 was in high school. I facts out my resume. Yes, facts used 105 00:06:54.990 --> 00:07:00.029 to be a thing to anyone that would take it. I went to Grad 106 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:02.259 School, I faked it until I made it and then, you know, 107 00:07:02.379 --> 00:07:05.899 the universaligned when I had my first kid, to land be through in the 108 00:07:05.899 --> 00:07:10.339 Silicon Valley stuff. I love hearing stories like that, because I think if 109 00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:14.459 you're if you're working hard and keeping your eye on the prize and doing the 110 00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:16.930 right thing, then that it always works out. So really awesome for you 111 00:07:16.970 --> 00:07:20.209 to share that story with us. Absolutely, I think you're neither. Like 112 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:23.810 I think it's those things you just gotta like, act like it's going to 113 00:07:23.889 --> 00:07:29.810 happen and it will. positivity, right. So I think to frame this 114 00:07:29.930 --> 00:07:33.720 conversation, your team put out an amazing piece of content that that we love 115 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:39.879 here at Sindos so, and it's it's framed around from no ABM program to 116 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:45.149 award winning ABM program in one year, which to me is like about as 117 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:48.389 close as you will ever get to a silver bullet in BB marketing. Yes, 118 00:07:49.069 --> 00:07:54.230 it's so kind of exist, but it takes a year, not Ada. 119 00:07:55.470 --> 00:07:58.550 So I mean, from from looking at that piece of content, I'd 120 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:01.939 love to start with you know, asking you what are the things that made 121 00:08:01.939 --> 00:08:05.980 your team rally around the idea of launching an APM program at the first place? 122 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.339 Yeah, you know, it was. It was two big things and 123 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:11.220 the first one was kind of obvious, like we ourselves had just, and 124 00:08:11.300 --> 00:08:15.449 this is right when I came on board, had just launched kind of an 125 00:08:15.490 --> 00:08:18.889 account based feature right where we're starting to inser targeted ads based on the account 126 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:22.329 that someone is death. And so it's one of those things where it's like, 127 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:26.089 well, we sell ABM, we need to also be ourselves ABM. 128 00:08:26.569 --> 00:08:28.560 So we kind of had to walk the walk. But the other part was, 129 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.399 you know, we are a venture back company, but you know, 130 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.799 I'm not not a huge you know, about of cash supporting us. I 131 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.360 had a very must budget, especially compared to the revenuables we hit. And 132 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:45.470 you know, having been built I don't know how many five kind of in 133 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:48.110 that program from scratch or my career, knew that, you know, from 134 00:08:48.149 --> 00:08:52.070 everything I'd seen, there was no way we were going to build a mouse 135 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:54.590 trap that we were going to get us to hit that revenue target that we 136 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:58.940 needed, and so it had to be marketing, going out and doing hunting 137 00:08:58.059 --> 00:09:01.500 right alongside our sales team, and so that was kind of it. It 138 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:03.500 was like no, there's no other option, guys, we're going to miss 139 00:09:03.539 --> 00:09:07.980 our numbers if we don't kind of take a completely new approach to the things 140 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:11.129 we're doing every day. Yeah, for sure. I mean, and I'd 141 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:15.610 love to unpack that. You know, getting closer to sales and and the 142 00:09:15.690 --> 00:09:18.210 data peace and and how you how you work a straight that, I mean, 143 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.210 was it strategy first? Was A tooling first? What did that look 144 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:26.399 like? The first one was first. Was a chip on the shoulder. 145 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.399 So I'm looking out of our window in definitely and office right now at the 146 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.279 second biggest sales force presence in the world in sales force was a customer of 147 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.710 ours and, you know, before I got here we lost them and I 148 00:09:39.909 --> 00:09:43.230 was just shot considering, you know, a there across the street be my 149 00:09:43.389 --> 00:09:46.070 CEO, Brian, was the the chief product officer shoes, rich marking, 150 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:48.710 cloud like. There's a lot of connected tissue. A lot of employees here 151 00:09:48.789 --> 00:09:54.500 came from sales force for the exact target and there's no reason on earth that 152 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:56.860 we should be this close to know everyone that's in the bank made and not 153 00:09:56.980 --> 00:10:00.580 have them be a customer when they, you know, who clearly demonstrated the 154 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.100 need. So we were just like, you know what, let's try like 155 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:05.580 hell to win this account back. Let's do everything we can. Well, 156 00:10:05.779 --> 00:10:09.409 all the stuffs, marketing, the entire markets team is going to support this 157 00:10:09.450 --> 00:10:13.129 one a e on this one account. And so that's what we did. 158 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.450 We built you know, personalized landing page. We by URL six or love 159 00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:20.519 sales forcecom. We got a bunch of personalized starbucks cards made to have that 160 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:24.440 you are all printed on them and we sent those to the ten people. 161 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:26.039 We knew they were exactly ten people in the bank committee and we sent those 162 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.559 ten cards out those people. And we knew that because this was, you 163 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:33.240 know, you know, pretty private url. Anytime ex activity on that Web 164 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.190 page we do, it had to be someone from salesports clicking on it. 165 00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:41.549 We had sixer campaign running the same time, by the way, and it's 166 00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:45.190 from the souny activity. You know, are a counstant it, and started 167 00:10:45.309 --> 00:10:48.750 making outreach and you know, the end of the day we spent fifty eight 168 00:10:48.789 --> 00:10:50.980 dollars on this campaigns a dollars for url and, you know, ten five 169 00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:54.620 dollar starbucks cards. And so are all. I would have been huge if 170 00:10:54.659 --> 00:10:58.620 we had won them, but we did. But you know, when it 171 00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:01.220 was all over, in the dust settle, we we looked each other like 172 00:11:01.299 --> 00:11:03.370 wow, that was, I guess Adm Right, and we all agreed it 173 00:11:03.529 --> 00:11:05.690 was the same. So we're like, hey, how do we scale that? 174 00:11:05.769 --> 00:11:09.009 How do we do a better how do we work with more a's what 175 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:11.009 kind of dated we need to make this better, and it just kind of 176 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:16.850 scaled up from there. That's amazing. I think the big topic amongst marketers 177 00:11:16.929 --> 00:11:24.200 and dimension folks has is almost the definition of account based and if it's if 178 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.120 it's one to one or if it's one to fewer, if it's one too 179 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.559 many. So I know that you've scaled beyond kind of that initial one too 180 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.070 one. So maybe tell us how you evolved it into to one to few 181 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:37.429 and then one to many. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So after that 182 00:11:37.509 --> 00:11:41.269 we're like, you know, let's do this times a hundred. And so 183 00:11:41.389 --> 00:11:43.830 what we did really just ripped out that same playbook and we just did through 184 00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:48.419 kind of brute force, made a hundred personalized landing pages, a hundred personal 185 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.419 and sixer campaigns, and we still didn't have any tech supporting its. Right, 186 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:56.899 like our accounts were picked from. This is actually a big learning for 187 00:11:56.940 --> 00:11:58.779 us. We went to our as and said, hey, we're just what 188 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:01.570 we're doing in him now. Each of you pick ten accounts and we will 189 00:12:01.610 --> 00:12:05.129 just mark at the crap out of them for you, soften them up, 190 00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:07.730 make it easy for you to get in there. And so when these came 191 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:15.330 back, we got logos like Nike and Cribbean cruises and Jay crew and companies 192 00:12:15.370 --> 00:12:18.679 would never ever buy a Bob Marketing Solution. And so this is where we 193 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.720 first felt the paying that okay, we need better day that here. We 194 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.159 need to have, you know, something influncing our decisions on who we're going 195 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.000 after other than just, you know, cool logos that we'd like to work 196 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.230 with. And so we brought on a tour to help us with our acount 197 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:35.909 selection. We basically did, you know, a PRMOGRAPHIC, you know study 198 00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:39.990 kind of based on our closed ones. You know, who do we think 199 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.350 are going to be our future best customers? kind of built basically a lead 200 00:12:43.389 --> 00:12:46.340 scoring framework for accounts. That was kind of how we built that going forward. 201 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:50.460 But again, and it was still just, you know, like eight 202 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:52.419 of us, seven of us, locked in a conference room eating pizza and 203 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:58.340 manually building landing pages and up spot. And so it worked. We're starting 204 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:01.970 to win, like finally, like we had a little bit of victory and 205 00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:05.730 that was enough to kind of keep us going and from there we scaled it 206 00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:07.090 up. The Patent. At this point, we brought in a terminus do 207 00:13:07.169 --> 00:13:11.409 our advertising. We brought on send us of putting in this last iterations will 208 00:13:11.409 --> 00:13:16.360 be funny to you, Dan. We were packing boxes, we've round up 209 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.360 the entire sales team, entire marketing team. We'd sit in our our lobby 210 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.799 and we'd be packing on the Lobes, writing hand written notes, and I'm 211 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.230 doing math in the back of my head saying, okay, there's fourteen people 212 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:30.429 in this room, they've been here for two hours. They're average salaries this 213 00:13:30.629 --> 00:13:33.190 and I did some quick math in like holy crap, like these two hours 214 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:37.509 cost more than the entire Sendosa platform in terms of people hours. So that's 215 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:39.509 when I was like, okay, we got to go out in the Sindo 216 00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:43.340 so to help us with this parts. And at this point we kind of 217 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:45.500 kind of integrated all of our plays, like it was just one of these 218 00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:48.700 natural progressions where we did a little bit, we did a little bit more, 219 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:50.500 we took stock, we learned what we could learn, we improved, 220 00:13:50.539 --> 00:13:54.740 improved a little bit and then we went a little bit bigger and to the 221 00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:58.250 point where at the end of the year we won an award for best pipeline 222 00:13:58.289 --> 00:14:01.850 accelerations campaign at the at the ABM he's and it wasn't one of these things 223 00:14:01.929 --> 00:14:05.730 where we had a grand vision to start with. We just started small and 224 00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:09.649 scaled up and scaled up, and I think we're people are getting hung up 225 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:11.879 is they're not seeing results quick enough and they can be very scary, and 226 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.519 I'm here to tell you that, like you, just kind of keep going 227 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.320 with it and getting more and more people excited about employing this com direction. 228 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.559 And at this point the AD and program generates over half of all the revenue 229 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.830 that we're bringing in that re quarter. That's a phenomenal metric and I think 230 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:30.590 the question that comes to mind for me is, you know, when you 231 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.870 scaled from one to one, to two, one to feel and one too 232 00:14:33.950 --> 00:14:37.909 many, what are some of the similarities and what are some of the differences 233 00:14:37.149 --> 00:14:39.940 in the approach, like, what are those important things that you learn? 234 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:45.179 Yeah, order to scale that? I think one thing we lost we went 235 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:48.299 from one to few to one two. Money was this route for time effort 236 00:14:48.379 --> 00:14:52.649 right. So we stopped doing handmade landing pages and we started doing kind of 237 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.370 drift landing page. Is the head clear, but it so it would identify 238 00:14:56.409 --> 00:14:58.129 the account they're coming from and we were like, okay, this still counts 239 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:01.809 as personalization to the account name on it, right, and looking bad like 240 00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:05.090 that's that's not personalization, that's just a clever half right, and people can 241 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:09.120 see right through that and I think that's one thing we've lost as you scaled 242 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.519 up. And I think from where I'm sitting, the more personalized and more 243 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.080 thought you put into it, the better it works. And so maybe for 244 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.919 some more organizations when too many works a lot better than that, but for 245 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.590 us, for our buyer and the way we like to go to market, 246 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:24.669 we really like having that personal vation. We like to build those relationships and 247 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.830 that takes a lot more work on the front end with no promise that on 248 00:15:28.870 --> 00:15:31.429 the other end it's going to be delivered. But it still feels right and 249 00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:33.830 I think it's a lot healthier for our brand, which I think we'll cume 250 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:37.299 to quantify, is a lot more important than long in the long run, 251 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:41.460 especially for for younger startups. Yeah, not. I couldn't agree more. 252 00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:46.779 What are some of the tools beyond what you've mentioned that you're using to execute 253 00:15:46.779 --> 00:15:50.730 these programs? Yeah, so we have been using data Fox for our account 254 00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:54.370 selection and it's pretty it's pretty useful because it does let you dial and exactly 255 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.690 what you think, carrying in form to your best customers are going to be. 256 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:03.610 We use Uber Flip for our content experiences. To think really really puts 257 00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:07.480 a high level of shine on all the great content the bread on our team 258 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.559 was producing its ends. I mentioned terminus. I mentioned which obviously we're using 259 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:17.879 because they're now our parent company. got a h exactly drift we use. 260 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.070 We use for and we still use drift for a lot of our kind of 261 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:26.509 accompanies activity, but we don't necessarily make them our destination for every single advertise. 262 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:30.549 Depending on the value of the account that we perceive and how far along 263 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.580 the revenue journey they are, will still crack open hump spot and we will 264 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:37.580 build a completely befolke planning page for them. In fact, we are right 265 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.620 now doing this for eleven accounts that are pretty late stage. Our head of 266 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:47.809 customer success with getting the other his team recording personal video messages for every single 267 00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:51.250 account, introducing himself in his team to kind of say hey, here's how 268 00:16:51.289 --> 00:16:52.850 we're going to take care of this account with you become a customer. We're 269 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:56.730 building their first few sixty campaigns for them and so we're really putting a high 270 00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:00.330 level of thought and energy into it and then we're going to fund the craft 271 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:03.720 out of ads that lead everyone at that account to this page so they can 272 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.759 see how much care. Yeah, and so, interestingly, you know, 273 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.000 we've scaled from one hund and one, one, a few, one, 274 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:11.119 two, many, and now, like, I mean, we've kind of 275 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.920 been to the top of the Mat Mountain. We're coming back down and we're 276 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.910 focusing on a fewer accounts and we're just trying to make them work really, 277 00:17:17.950 --> 00:17:22.349 really well. That's that's great. I think a follow up question would be 278 00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:27.190 you. You, you talked to a bit about not being able to necessarily 279 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:32.980 build a mouse trap that was going to capture the revenue that you were expected 280 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:36.740 to bring in from your from your investors, right and your exact team, 281 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:40.460 and you've been able to scale your ABM team program to be able to hit 282 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:45.890 about fifty percent of that revenue. How do you see traditional demandsion fitting into 283 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:48.490 this ABM world? Like are you? Are you running a double funnel or 284 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:52.690 any other kind of methodology like that? We are. Yeah, the other 285 00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:56.329 half of our revenue coming from what we consider in bound sources, which we 286 00:17:56.569 --> 00:18:02.119 call, you know, I mean basically organic paid events, referrals, and 287 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.720 so we are running, in fact, the same person on my team, 288 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:10.000 just who's absolutely right. She runs all our demand programs and runs all of 289 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.150 our digital ABM, so it's like coming from the exact same place and a 290 00:18:12.269 --> 00:18:17.069 lot of the work she does on one funnel is completely applicable to the other 291 00:18:17.069 --> 00:18:18.869 ones. There's a whole lot of rework. I think there's a lot in 292 00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:23.470 common. Where I really think this double funnel comes into place is with our 293 00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:27.099 outbound team. So we, I guess maybe two quarters to go, made 294 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:32.220 the decision to rehouse the outbound team under marketing. They were people are under 295 00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:34.619 Shales and we've noticed a huge shift in that. I know there's a lot 296 00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:38.619 of conversation about where your SCR your Bediat, whatever you call with. I 297 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:41.849 used to be ambib one and, like you know, wherever. I now 298 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:47.329 firmly think that they are a every every bit co marketing team. They are 299 00:18:47.369 --> 00:18:51.009 the first line of your brand. They're often at first touchpoint anyone has had 300 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:53.529 with your company. They need to be completely tighten a line on your messaging, 301 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:56.720 whatever campaign you're running and if you've got them really, you know, 302 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.920 lock step with your marketing program I think they become a force multiplier for every 303 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.559 single thing your marketing teams doing. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I 304 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:10.230 think there's a lot of debate about where an SDR organizations to sit, and 305 00:19:10.309 --> 00:19:14.789 I think first and foremost it should probably be with the revenue leader that's the 306 00:19:14.869 --> 00:19:18.670 most passionate about it. But then, regardless of whether it's sales or marketing, 307 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:22.990 that I think you nailed it. They are your first line of brand 308 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:26.619 ambassador. They need to know the messaging, they need to know the play, 309 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:29.779 they need to know the content of those landing pages, they need to 310 00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:32.859 know the campaign like back of their hands, because they're really the ones that 311 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:37.380 are going to be talking to that prospect first exactly, and that's just that's 312 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:41.650 dangerous space right if it's not something that's passionate about it or the character, 313 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:44.609 it's treating them just like, you know, a robot that's got to make 314 00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:45.890 this many emails and calls are and say that's going to show up on the 315 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:49.289 other end and it's going to injure the brand and any future possibility might be 316 00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:53.599 in generating it's exactly I think a follow up question I would have there is, 317 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:00.839 have you seen your inbound efforts convert to outbound and vice versa? I 318 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:04.000 think there's this whole notion about bound equals inbound and inbound equals outbound. Yeah, 319 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.829 that is I think if you're doing it right, it should be blurry. 320 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:10.950 It should not be able to pinpoint exactly what the point of origin for 321 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:14.150 an opportunity is, and that was really a tough thing for us, and 322 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:18.349 one of the reasons that compelled us to move the SDR team is that we'd 323 00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:22.299 get a great opportunity in and it would look like they clicked on an ad, 324 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:26.579 they filled out a form and now you know they're ready to buy when, 325 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:29.140 and so you know, naturally, marketing me like that, we're that 326 00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:33.180 good, right, we're just were crushing it. But then we quick deeper 327 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:36.009 into the record and be like wow, this f SDR has been hitting this 328 00:20:36.130 --> 00:20:40.130 person consistently for three months. They've sent them all this content, like the 329 00:20:40.289 --> 00:20:45.049 evangelism was done by the str and it worked and it culminated in a very 330 00:20:45.130 --> 00:20:49.359 kind of on the face looking inbound lead. And so that was kind of 331 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.359 a big point of realization for us that, you know, if we're doing 332 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.680 our jobs right, it shouldn't be a super clean attribution story. It should 333 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:02.480 have everyone's fingerprints all over it, and that's tough to scale and I'm I'm 334 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.069 sure I've had scared some people, but for us that's like that's when we 335 00:21:04.109 --> 00:21:07.670 know think you're working, is when a bunch of people have touched a bunch 336 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:10.789 of different campaigns, if this person and it culminated in a very clean, 337 00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:14.430 you know, indication of demand. Yeah, no, exactly, and I 338 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:19.140 think. I think the reason that outbound teams get scared when inbound is so 339 00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.220 mingled. They think they're not going to get the credit. But if you 340 00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:26.420 can create these complans where where the outbound usty are is going to get that 341 00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:30.380 in bound lead, even if it wasn't the exact person, but you can 342 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:33.049 make the correlation that they were working at in the same time frame, I 343 00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:36.609 think everyone wins. Yeah, a hundred percent of hundred percent, and so 344 00:21:36.730 --> 00:21:38.529 we do a good job of that and we really the whole the whole team. 345 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:41.569 I mean, at the end of the day we're aligned about how many 346 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:44.890 meetings to be make this quarter. Who carried in boundary outbound? Are we 347 00:21:45.210 --> 00:21:48.920 everyone trusted? Everyone's doing the best they can and it shows up exactly. 348 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.480 Well, who knows, maybe we'll have you back on the show to talk 349 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:55.400 about attribution and how to run ANSD our organization, because I think we could 350 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:59.680 talk about that for an hour. He's ansomely. Yeah. So I think 351 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.069 last question I have for you is what are you the most excited about going 352 00:22:03.150 --> 00:22:07.990 into the New Year? It's a new decade. It's a nice number. 353 00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:11.069 Two Thousand and twenty. Tell me about what's what's getting. He is super 354 00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:15.980 pumped up. Yeah, I think. I mean first I'm really stuck to 355 00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:18.900 see what happens when we can buy and the teams and the technology of experience 356 00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:22.420 and terminus and then that trying to be sales the year. But I am 357 00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:25.980 personally very excited about what we're about to create and I think it more of 358 00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:30.450 a macro level. I have re a images to hear your opinion on this, 359 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.009 Dan, because I think you're probably even closer to it than I am. 360 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:37.369 But I've been feeling the pendulum swinging back from inbound at an accelerating rate. 361 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:40.009 Like this whole indownd methodology. I think it's kind of falling apart. 362 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:45.000 I think marketing automations is value is diminishing really quickly and I think that a 363 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.039 lot of marketing came in the sound great Cli shape this point. But you 364 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.240 know, that whole level of being very intentional, being very personalized with you're 365 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.200 going out after. For me, has been the most refreshing and funnest part 366 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:02.109 of marketing in my career. Not trying to trick search engines or trying to, 367 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:04.269 you know, change a button color to increase conversion rates like that stuff 368 00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:08.430 is boring, awful, not fun marketing, but building things that people will 369 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:12.420 personally love and people are really, really excited by. That's like, I 370 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:17.019 think, why we all got new marketing and I think that in BTB that's 371 00:23:17.059 --> 00:23:18.900 finally coming, you know, to be the new norm, and I think 372 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.019 that's a really fun and exciting time to be part of this. Yeah, 373 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:26.420 I couldn't agree more and I think it's super exciting, but in a way 374 00:23:26.420 --> 00:23:30.170 it's on. It's also super stressful because I think what a head of marketing 375 00:23:30.930 --> 00:23:34.849 needs to do for an organization is take the revenue team down that right path 376 00:23:36.049 --> 00:23:41.130 to where you're going to have the most meaningful connections with your prospects to convert 377 00:23:41.170 --> 00:23:45.880 them to the long lasting relationship that you want right. But part of that's 378 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.480 an education, because I think the traditional demand funnel technology providers have done a 379 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.950 really great job of showing that demand funnel and if you put x amount of 380 00:23:56.950 --> 00:24:00.670 leads in and you get your conversion rates right, then it's almost like a 381 00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:03.109 set it, forget it, and that's just so far from where we are 382 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:07.750 today, with the amount of technology that's out there and the way that people 383 00:24:07.829 --> 00:24:11.299 are are buying, both on the B tob and BC de side. It's 384 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:14.940 just a different ball game. Totally agree. I totally agree, and that's 385 00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:18.619 probably another topic that we could discuss. It's I think we got a lot 386 00:24:18.619 --> 00:24:19.980 to talk about that. I'm excited about that. But do I mean? 387 00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:23.769 I'm sure I'll see you on the road this year at all these amazing conferences 388 00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:26.490 that will get to be a part of. But I think with that I'd 389 00:24:26.769 --> 00:24:30.650 like to thank you for joining us today. It was a pleasure speaking with 390 00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:33.609 you, and tell our listeners how they can get in touch with you and 391 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.250 learn more about six yeah, thank you damn. This is awesome. Any 392 00:24:37.289 --> 00:24:41.160 time you I do it. I'm game. If people want to follow up 393 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:45.440 sixercom, Sagstr or, I guess now Terminuscom will get you there as well. 394 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.279 If you want to connect with me my twitter handle with Jeff and Keller, 395 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:55.309 or just email me. Justin at sixercom and I will probably do my 396 00:24:55.390 --> 00:24:57.390 best to get back to you. But you know how we could go amazing. 397 00:24:57.910 --> 00:25:00.789 Well, if you haven't subscribed yet, please subscribe to the series to 398 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:03.950 hear the latest from leaders on the be tob growth show. Thanks for tuning 399 00:25:03.990 --> 00:25:11.740 in. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 400 00:25:11.859 --> 00:25:15.180 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 401 00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:18.859 started the BOB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our 402 00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:23.650 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 403 00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:30.690 Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three