#ABM 10: The 5 “Thou Shalt Nots" of ABM w/ Russell Banzon

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.440 People receive hundreds of digital messages a day, from push notifications to emails. 2 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:10.710 So how do you engage your top prospects and stand out? By sending personalized 3 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:15.310 gifts the old fashioned way. With Sindoso, soandso helps you use gift giving 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:20.190 and direct mail throughout your customer life cycle, from lead generation to converting customers 5 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:25.820 into brand advocates, from sourcing to sending and centralizing the direct mail and gifting 6 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:29.940 process. San Doso helps you scale your gift giving, stand out and keeping 7 00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:38.729 your brand top of mine visits and DOSOCOM to learn more. You're listening to 8 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:43.649 be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names 9 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:47.329 you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and Simon Senek, but you've 10 00:00:47.409 --> 00:00:51.479 probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of 11 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:56.079 our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in 12 00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:00.799 the trenches, leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting 13 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.430 with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies in the world. My 14 00:01:04.469 --> 00:01:07.829 name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast 15 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.390 agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. 16 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:15.750 When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind 17 00:01:15.790 --> 00:01:19.060 the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our 18 00:01:19.099 --> 00:01:25.140 journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe 19 00:01:25.739 --> 00:01:34.129 let's get into the show. Welcome back to the ABM series on the BB 20 00:01:34.290 --> 00:01:37.810 grows show. I'm your cohost, Dan Frownin, and I'm lucky enough to 21 00:01:37.849 --> 00:01:41.849 be the CMO here at Sindoh so here today with Russell Banson, and he's 22 00:01:41.890 --> 00:01:45.650 the director of demand generation gone. How you doing, Russell? I'm good 23 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:48.280 man. How are you doing? Really well, man. It's a beautiful 24 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:53.319 cloudy day here in San Francisco and having a good conversation with you with love 25 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:56.239 for you to tell us a little bit about gone. You guys are crushing 26 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.920 it in the market right now and really want to give the listeners here an 27 00:01:59.959 --> 00:02:02.549 opportunity to hear directly from you on what you guys are up to and what 28 00:02:02.670 --> 00:02:07.150 you do. Yeah, sure, it's been a fantastic here for Gong. 29 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:13.750 For those who aren't familiar, Gong is a revenue intelligence platform that enables teams 30 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:17.419 to operate based on reality and not on opinions. And ultimately, what it 31 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:22.620 means for for customers like ours, for like like Sandosa, for example, 32 00:02:23.259 --> 00:02:27.020 is that it's the answer to their million dollar questions. And what I mean 33 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:30.129 by million dollar questions is what separates the top wraps from the rest of the 34 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:35.490 pack? What competitors are creeping out in the market? How do I enable 35 00:02:35.530 --> 00:02:39.449 a strategy and deploy across my entire Revenue Organization? Those are the type two 36 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:43.610 questions that were answering for a lot of our customers. Awesome. Yeah, 37 00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:47.199 no, we're huge fans of going and use it a lot. So really 38 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.919 happy to have you here and give you the opportunity to be on the show. 39 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.240 So we are going to be talking a BM today. What I like 40 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:58.949 to do on podcast like this is actually start the conversation with with your story, 41 00:02:59.030 --> 00:03:00.509 your rear store, what got you to where you are, and and 42 00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:06.509 then we can dive into what your radium journeys will look cold. Sounds good. 43 00:03:06.990 --> 00:03:10.349 So my background is again, I'm are the director at demand generation. 44 00:03:10.430 --> 00:03:15.180 I'm gone where I started. My face, my journey starts is that I 45 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:20.219 was a bay area guy born in rays, except for three years where I 46 00:03:20.219 --> 00:03:24.740 loved in the Philippines. I started my career actually at more instant and in 47 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:30.330 the finance area. I figured out very, very quickly, and if you 48 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:35.129 have ever had experience in that area, you know that you'll figure it out 49 00:03:35.129 --> 00:03:38.650 quickly if it's for you or not for you. I was one who it 50 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:42.960 was not for one. I didn't like wearing the suits every single day. 51 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.439 I'm too, it's just it wasn't the right environment for me, although it 52 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.719 is for many, many people. Shortly thereafter I started my career in check 53 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.000 at an adapt as, where I joined as an str so I joined as 54 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:58.469 a part of the scales organization and then quickly moved over to marketing. I 55 00:03:58.669 --> 00:04:02.909 was very, very lucky enough to be a part of two UNICORNS and now, 56 00:04:03.789 --> 00:04:08.150 a couple of years later, now running to man Jina and go right 57 00:04:08.229 --> 00:04:11.939 on. Yeah, so had the opportunity to work with you, AD Aptis. 58 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:13.819 So I think that was a magical time for a lot of us. 59 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:18.540 We had this amazing marketing team that re Upper Galina would built. She really 60 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:23.939 helped, almost in a way, to find account based marketing and brought in 61 00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:26.410 some of the early tools that we were using, and I think a really 62 00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:31.889 cool launching point for for this conversation today is, since you've seen it from 63 00:04:32.009 --> 00:04:36.050 the ground up at Aptis and then throughout the amazing career that you developed for 64 00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:40.920 yourself, is where do you even start with an APM program and such a 65 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:45.240 broad term? There's so many pieces of technology that can be applied to it. 66 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.560 So I get asked this questioning a lot and for those of you listening 67 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:56.189 at home who are getting started on this journey, be rest assured that ninety 68 00:04:56.269 --> 00:05:00.990 percent of the market hasn't figured it out yet. And so if you're like, 69 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:03.389 I don't know where to start, I'm really, really worried. It 70 00:05:03.910 --> 00:05:08.699 seems like everybody's got to figured it out. Nobody hasn't figured out yet, 71 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:12.500 and I find that fascinating that you've mentioned that, because I was on a 72 00:05:12.579 --> 00:05:16.899 panel with a couple people at growth marketing conference last week and we asked by 73 00:05:16.899 --> 00:05:20.930 a show at hands, like where are you within your APM maturity, beginner, 74 00:05:21.129 --> 00:05:26.170 intermediate or advanced? I'd say ninety five percent of the rooms at ninety 75 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:30.170 said we're beginner, one person said intermediate and then the only person who said 76 00:05:30.170 --> 00:05:35.319 advanced was an abm but it's nice to not only validate that from you, 77 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:39.480 but also from a room full of marketers are trying to figure the stuff out. 78 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:42.560 The other awesome thing about it is if that you ask them in a 79 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.000 room not filled with marketers who are facing the exact same problems, you ask 80 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.230 them as as you were walking down the street, a bunch of people would 81 00:05:49.230 --> 00:05:53.790 say yes, I totally haven't figured it out, like I know it beam 82 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:56.990 like the back of my hand. We got it all solved. But going 83 00:05:57.029 --> 00:06:00.790 back to the original question, where do you start? It really does start, 84 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:03.980 and it's kind of a trite statement to say honestly, but it really 85 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:09.459 does start with sales and marketing alignement and it's so, so crucial. Like 86 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:14.980 that is the foundation of building an account based program. I'll say account based, 87 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.139 not just marketing, but account be sales as well. That is really 88 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:21.889 at its core. I think having somebody in the marketing organization who gets that 89 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:28.209 and knows how to work really well with sales is a crucial part of getting 90 00:06:28.250 --> 00:06:31.529 your ABM's program kick started. A friend of mine, Chap He, was 91 00:06:31.649 --> 00:06:36.279 like you work really, really well with sales, which enables us to have 92 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:42.399 a program like ABM, because you have a lot of sales empathy and you 93 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.879 need to have both sales empathy and marketing empathy on both sides to to really 94 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.990 get a program started. The next piece there, once you have that really 95 00:06:50.069 --> 00:06:56.949 strong alignment with the Revenue Organization, is coming to a mutual understanding around what 96 00:06:57.149 --> 00:07:01.500 is the target list of accounts? What's the ICP or ideal customer profile that 97 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:04.860 you want to go after or the personas that we want to go after? 98 00:07:05.379 --> 00:07:10.180 So that way you can come together. This isn't just marketing generated, but 99 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:15.100 you can come together and agree upon a set list of our accounts, depending 100 00:07:15.139 --> 00:07:18.209 on how big your ACV is, that maybe a hundred accounts and maybe a 101 00:07:18.290 --> 00:07:24.089 thousand accounts, maybe thirtyzero accounts, but nonetheless you have to have some solid 102 00:07:24.089 --> 00:07:28.250 agreement on around what the ICP and Tart accountist looks like. From there it's 103 00:07:28.250 --> 00:07:30.199 pretty so able, and I don't mean it trivialize it, but it is 104 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:35.040 pretty simple and that you just start with a POC justin color. Over at 105 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:40.120 Sikes t talks about this a lot. But you can start with a program 106 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:44.079 that's just one to one to prove out the value. Don't go and try 107 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.629 and tackle every single thing underneath the sun. And do you know, website 108 00:07:47.670 --> 00:07:55.310 personalization with custom case studies, custom content assets, custom account based advertising. 109 00:07:55.430 --> 00:07:59.939 Don't try and boil the ocean. Start with a small set. Maybe it's 110 00:07:59.939 --> 00:08:03.019 a one to one, maybe it's someone a few, but get that POSC 111 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:05.740 out there so that way you can start proving the value to your leadership team 112 00:08:05.779 --> 00:08:11.139 and really make ab I'm a part of your core through, you know, 113 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:15.050 proving the the proof in the playing as they would say. That's that's great. 114 00:08:15.089 --> 00:08:18.529 I think I love the the sales empathy in the marketing empathy because I 115 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:22.930 think the more we understand each other's jobs and understand that neither side of the 116 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:26.009 House has an easy button thinks, the better off everyone's going to be. 117 00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:30.160 And one thing that that we were iterating, and here it said those so 118 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:35.159 recently, is the idea of almost building to a champion sort of relationship with 119 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.440 the sales and SDRs where you know someone's doing wonder one really well, like 120 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.830 make them your champion and have them start to teach the rest of the organization 121 00:08:43.990 --> 00:08:46.350 on how to do it as well, to get that adoption to be a 122 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:50.590 little bit more organic than marketing telling sales to do something or vice at versa. 123 00:08:50.789 --> 00:08:54.629 Sot of totally love these tips and I think the you know, you've 124 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:56.379 given us a lot of actionable things on how we can get it up and 125 00:08:56.419 --> 00:09:00.940 running, but I'm sure you've learned a few things on what you should not 126 00:09:01.059 --> 00:09:03.700 do. So I've loved to get the listeners here a little bit of perspective 127 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:07.139 on that as well. Yeah, I was figuring out I could rattle off 128 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.529 a large number of things of what not to do for you know, for 129 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:15.129 anybody who I've worked with in the past. Pardon me on this, but 130 00:09:15.289 --> 00:09:18.769 I've wasted a lot of time, effort in dollars and figuring out what not 131 00:09:18.929 --> 00:09:22.490 to do along the way. So I've been fortunate to have that experience and 132 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:26.519 in trying to figure out the best way to kind of like simplify it, 133 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.080 I came up with, as I was walking over here, like the five 134 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:31.679 commandments of what not to do. Meybm, I love that. So here's 135 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:37.720 the Five Commandments. One is I shall not use tech as the solution, 136 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.710 and I emphasize the wrong word there, but it's the solution. A lot 137 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:46.070 of times marketers will say, Hey, I'm tick starting my ABM program it's 138 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:48.590 time to go by it's time to go buy a solution out there in the 139 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:54.580 market and you know, as great as solutions like six cents are and demand 140 00:09:54.659 --> 00:10:00.379 base for optimizedly, the list goes on, it's not going to be the 141 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.740 solution for you and, candidly, shouldn't be the starting place. It's not, 142 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:07.809 you know, it's not a replica to drive sales and marketing alignment and 143 00:10:07.929 --> 00:10:13.490 things like that. The second one is the second commandment is I shall not 144 00:10:13.769 --> 00:10:18.809 freeze that only one channel is ABM, and so I get a lot of 145 00:10:18.929 --> 00:10:22.080 questions around like what programs are like? How do you do ABM? It 146 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.080 feels like ABM's just direct mail. Right. It's not just direct mail, 147 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:31.399 it's not just account based advertising, it's not just what personalization. It's a 148 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:37.190 holistic strategy that you need to employ across your sales and marketing organizations. The 149 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:43.070 third commandment in the five commandments what not to do in Avm is I shall 150 00:10:43.230 --> 00:10:48.549 not run ABM as a silo in my organization. Another thing that happens a 151 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:54.460 lot of times with folks starting in ABM program is that they'll assign one person. 152 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:58.019 A lot of times it's somebody in demand generation and say hey, go 153 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:03.700 kit start our ABM program whatever that means right, and that person will go 154 00:11:03.940 --> 00:11:07.250 and they'll try to do it on their own. They won't work with their 155 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.610 sales team and again come to consensus around the list of part accounts they work. 156 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:16.409 Won't work with their strs on maybe it's custom outreach sequences in order to 157 00:11:16.490 --> 00:11:18.440 really start to penetrate these accounts and things like that. They'll do it in 158 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:24.720 a silo and that's no, that's no recipe for success. You need to 159 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.039 add and do this thing together. The fourth one is, I shall not 160 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:33.149 over automy drift. I think a lot about a lot about this. With 161 00:11:33.669 --> 00:11:37.750 with drift, they came out with a book called this won't scale and it's 162 00:11:37.830 --> 00:11:46.269 basically a book of things that they did to be really, really successful as 163 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:52.500 an organization that theoretically don't scale right and a lot of times marketers will over 164 00:11:52.700 --> 00:11:56.179 index onto things that will scale and do a lot of automation. The gap 165 00:11:56.379 --> 00:12:03.330 this care rates over time is the personalized approach to account based marketing or account 166 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:09.330 based sales. That creates raving fans and creating raving fans. It's gongs number 167 00:12:09.330 --> 00:12:13.610 one operating principle. It's the best thing that you can do for your organization, 168 00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:18.320 because if you create raving fans in the marketing and sales process, you 169 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.360 create raving fans in your customer success and support organizations, those are going to 170 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.559 be the customers that renew time and time again, that leaves their organization and 171 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.029 go and purchase you again and another organization and etc. Etc. It's all 172 00:12:31.110 --> 00:12:35.830 the things that make account these marketing and sales really really worthwhile, right, 173 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.029 is those types of raving fan experiences. So again, don't over automate. 174 00:12:41.269 --> 00:12:43.980 There's a number of really cool things that you can do with a technology that 175 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.299 exists in the world, but don't over index on that side. Now the 176 00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:52.700 last one is I shall not stop evolving, and this is kind of what 177 00:12:52.779 --> 00:12:58.370 I mean. Is Account Beas marketing has been around for I would say about 178 00:12:58.370 --> 00:13:03.129 a decade. Became really popular probably in two thousand and twelve, is two 179 00:13:03.129 --> 00:13:07.690 thousand and fourteen ish, so about five years ago, and it's really candidly 180 00:13:07.809 --> 00:13:11.919 still in its infancy. There's still a number of different things, whether it 181 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.879 be tech programs processes, that are still being developed, and so by no 182 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.679 means, even though you're ten years in and you think that you've got it 183 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.159 all, figure it out. You probably don't, and it's important to keep 184 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.789 that learning mindset. As Charlie longer would say, ide a learning machine, 185 00:13:28.429 --> 00:13:33.110 and that's how you'll continue to cut through the noise. I mean ATM was 186 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:39.549 invented because broad based marketing wasn't getting a job in any and so in order 187 00:13:39.549 --> 00:13:41.940 to cut through the noise, you got to continue to evolve, continue to 188 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:45.700 push yourself and be creative in terms of how do you cut through that noise. 189 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:48.220 These are amazing. I think I'm going to take these five commandments and 190 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:52.820 I'm going to take them on my wall and the rest of my team's wall, 191 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:58.330 and I think it's super fascinating that that Multi Channel and integrated marketing fundamentals 192 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.129 are coming back in. I think for quite a while people of rely on 193 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:05.929 technology to start doing that for us, but it's up to us as marketing 194 00:14:07.169 --> 00:14:11.720 tacticians to really to really go and really map out and look at what a 195 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.080 journey looks like in what needs to be there at any one moment in time 196 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.320 right and I think this whole notion of that you should never stop evolving is 197 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.990 just so amazing. I think it's incoming upon marketers to keep pushing the envelope 198 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:26.990 and to wake up every morning and say I'm only as good as my last 199 00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:31.230 day when I'm I doing today. Yeah, so I hope the world adopts 200 00:14:31.269 --> 00:14:33.269 these. You heard him here first. Guys, I think the next thing 201 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:37.950 that would be amazing to unpack with you would be, you know, having 202 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:41.220 taken these learnings of what to do and what not to do and apply it 203 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.379 to what you're doing today. Gong, you guys have been doing a lot 204 00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.740 of really cool things. I hear about them constantly on social media. I 205 00:14:48.820 --> 00:14:52.490 think you guys are winning some awards at some point as well. So just 206 00:14:52.570 --> 00:14:56.730 tell me about it. Yeah, sure, absolutely. I'll call we out 207 00:14:56.809 --> 00:15:01.730 best with my SA farmer statement before I continue on in this conversation, is 208 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:07.600 that we are definitely I'm definitely one of those workers in that room that you 209 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.080 talked about earlier that would raise your hand and say, Hey, this is 210 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.360 still the beginning for us, and by no means how we figured it out. 211 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.960 I think we've figured out a few things along the way that I think 212 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.159 are interesting to share, and the framework that I like to talk about it, 213 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:26.230 then, is that our avian programs is multifaceted and it's it is really 214 00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:28.429 we do the one to one, we do the one a few and we 215 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.149 also do the one of many. Again, it's started with the core base 216 00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:37.820 of target accounts that we want to go after that strs and sales all degrees 217 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:43.059 upon with the marketing organization, and then I'll talk briefly about the one to 218 00:15:43.220 --> 00:15:46.740 one. What we've done on that side and what I've really done over time 219 00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:50.730 is over indexed on the partnership with the SDR team. I don't know if 220 00:15:50.769 --> 00:15:54.409 it's the fact that I used to manage SDRs, are used to be this 221 00:15:54.649 --> 00:15:58.289 and SDR myself, but I see them as kind of the lynchpin in making 222 00:15:58.490 --> 00:16:03.399 especially one to one work really well, and a few examples of that that 223 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:11.559 we've gone after today is every every hopefully every salesperson and str has their list 224 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.720 of top ten or top fifteen accounts that they really want to break into. 225 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.350 That's a part of their go to market strategy to hit their number in in 226 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:23.230 the month right and what we'll have them do is be almost like many marketers 227 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:27.549 and will enable them with things like their own on a budget in order to 228 00:16:27.629 --> 00:16:33.980 go after and figure out different prospecting plays to break into different accounts. One 229 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:37.659 very tangible example that we had was we had this gal nickel that she's an 230 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.980 sc she's a strategic sv on her team at Gonge. She read about she 231 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:45.899 had a target account. It was experience and she read about one of her 232 00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:51.490 prospects. Her name was Robin Norris. She's at svp of sales effectiveness over 233 00:16:51.570 --> 00:16:56.409 at experience. She wrote about on her linkedin that the size of a home 234 00:16:56.529 --> 00:17:00.960 plate doesn't change despite what level you're at in baseball. I have no clue 235 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.960 how she tied a to sales or sales effectiveness candidly, but that's what she 236 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:10.599 wrote about. And Nikola was like, Hey, here's my target account and 237 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.759 this is the target persona that we really need to get after. What can 238 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.710 I do on a one to one level to create a raving fan out of 239 00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:22.829 Robin Norris? And so what she did was she sent her a home plate. 240 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:26.549 It was a big box that arrived on her desk and it was a 241 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:29.789 one to one program like literally not only one, the one with the account 242 00:17:29.789 --> 00:17:33.859 of one, one person, as a person level targeting and program created just 243 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:37.619 for her. It was a home plate sent with a handwritten out that ties, 244 00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:41.220 you know, the home plate and piece that she wrote about so what 245 00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:47.130 we do over at Gong and that was massively impactful. She posted on social 246 00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:52.210 media, she tagged her CEO, she tagged her curl and going we hold 247 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:56.250 a few months later. Experience was a close one customer for us. So 248 00:17:56.369 --> 00:18:00.400 that one to one level worse, really, really well and again creating those 249 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.880 rating pans. That's amazing. I think there's a lot of talk around, 250 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.519 you know, one to one, one too few, one too many, 251 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.880 and when you get to one to one, or there any easy ways to 252 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.390 kind of I think as marketers and sellers, were always trying to hack the 253 00:18:14.430 --> 00:18:18.309 process to make it as fast as possible. But that's just a clear example 254 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:25.910 of really smart str knowing who her audiences and spending five minutes learning that a 255 00:18:26.029 --> 00:18:29.819 central theme in a story is a home playton and winning right. Do you 256 00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:36.460 have any guidance for the listeners on how much time to dedicate to doing some 257 00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:40.180 of this wonder one research so that so that people can win at scale that 258 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:44.450 way? Totally, totally. Like I mentioned earlier, there's always that set 259 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:48.089 of accounts that you know is going to be if we were to close this 260 00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:52.730 customer is going to be a great reference for us and is likely going to 261 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:56.720 be double our normal asp, and that's like they're less of top ten accounts 262 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.839 that they need to go after every single month. And so how much should 263 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:06.720 you spend, like, how much time should you spend doing personalized level outreach 264 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.230 to these folks? is almost a hundred percent of your time because it's tied 265 00:19:11.309 --> 00:19:15.309 into your everyday efforts of doing account based sales. That's the whole reason why 266 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:19.309 we do account of the sales. Yes, we do have an inbound SCR 267 00:19:19.390 --> 00:19:25.019 team and we do have processes to route those things to account executives if to 268 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:29.500 work on. But how much you be spending on creating those personalized experience for 269 00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:33.619 your talk list of accounts? Almost all your time from an outbound perspective. 270 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:38.809 Yeah, that's really amazing. Think I'd love to drop into a little bit 271 00:19:38.849 --> 00:19:41.609 more of the topic around one to one, one too few and one dimnion 272 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:47.450 and from your perspective, maybe take me through how you think they're the same, 273 00:19:47.609 --> 00:19:52.960 how they're different in in any myths that you think might exist that ABM 274 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.039 has to be won, the one to qualify for like this magic ABM designation. 275 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:03.160 Yeah, mythbusters, alert. ABM does not need to be one to 276 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.150 one. You're going to hear people. Yes, one hundred percent does not 277 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:11.349 only need to be one to one. It can be one of one. 278 00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:17.269 And if you have a very large enterprise sale where you're talking about six or 279 00:20:17.390 --> 00:20:22.779 seven figures, Arre for certain customers, one to one, one one may 280 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:26.380 be the right strategy for you, but it's not the only strategy with ABM 281 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:32.220 and you don't have to go again full blore and create a custom custom sales 282 00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:37.690 deck coupled with a custom me, but coupled with that one to one direct 283 00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.250 mail package that you may have. You don't need to only do that. 284 00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:45.769 And so, for example, like a gong, we also have programs that 285 00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:49.440 we run between one a few and one one too many. So from like, 286 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.240 you know, the tens of accounts, so maybe the hundreds of accounts 287 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.480 as what will run plays like this for, and I'll give it o their 288 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.920 example. That's that's even specifically direct mail focus. And now on is what 289 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.789 I like to call the mini gonge campaign. We came up with this campaign 290 00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:11.910 to send to a couple hundred target accounts and we've probably sent around five hundred 291 00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:15.750 of these over time, where we package up a Minigong Nice hand written no, 292 00:21:17.390 --> 00:21:19.180 will send it out to the to the prospect WHO's light. He's likely 293 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:25.140 a director of sales or VP of sales, somebody WHO's overseeing a sales team 294 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:29.460 and has direct line of site on to WHO's doing really well and that sales 295 00:21:29.460 --> 00:21:33.089 organization and who is right. And usually that's that's the people managers and what 296 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:36.849 we sent them. And that again, that's an example of a one mini 297 00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:40.930 campaign. Is We know that the pain point that a lot of these folks 298 00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:45.289 have is I need to figure out what the Heck Sally is doing as my 299 00:21:45.450 --> 00:21:52.079 top performer and replicate that across my entire organization. And so we sent these 300 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.920 folks a Minigong just to get the conversation started. And it doesn't have any 301 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:00.119 CTA in it. I get a lot of pushback on this from a number 302 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.829 of different markers, but there's no CTA in the box. It's not go 303 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:08.109 visit this web page and requested them. Well, it's not even email me 304 00:22:08.269 --> 00:22:14.710 back and schedule fifteen minutes on the calendar. Another mythbuster alert when you close 305 00:22:14.750 --> 00:22:18.019 out of your emails with when does this week work for fifteen minutes. A 306 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:22.259 lot of times this doesn't work right. You got to get the conversation started 307 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:26.259 in another way. And so what it'll say with this mini Gong is, 308 00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:30.890 Hey, a gain this here top performer and allow it to move every single 309 00:22:30.049 --> 00:22:34.049 month or quarter, you get to decide. But honor this person with this 310 00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:40.130 miniature Gong because they deserve that extra recognition. And what email them, and 311 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:42.569 this is where the partnership with sales is so, so crucial. Well, 312 00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:47.079 email them after with a with a custom out of you sequence that says something 313 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.440 to the rhyme of Hey, who did you give it to? And I'll 314 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:52.720 say, Hey, I give it to Dan. He was my start performer 315 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.640 last month. And close them those ACD for us and then, of course, 316 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.349 we then continue the conversation. Eventually we go for the close and we 317 00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:03.950 say, hey, how would you like to replicate what Dan's doing across your 318 00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:07.710 entire team? Gone can help you with that. That's amazing. I had 319 00:23:07.710 --> 00:23:11.029 an early boss who, when I first started in marketing, that would just 320 00:23:11.430 --> 00:23:15.420 get so bad at me because I would write ads, I would write emails 321 00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:17.819 and I would never have a call to action, and he just drilled it 322 00:23:17.859 --> 00:23:19.940 into my head. Is Almost one of the commandments of you must have a 323 00:23:21.019 --> 00:23:23.539 call to action. But I think you're approaching this in such a modern way. 324 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:27.490 We're landing that Gong on someone's desk. I mean, what more of 325 00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:33.809 a meaningful impression can you make with and having something that becomes symbolic across their 326 00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:38.049 entire organization and when they're ready for your help but you're they're waiting to help 327 00:23:38.089 --> 00:23:42.440 them right. So really, really cool program what what about when you get 328 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:47.240 into one Domini? So we've heard one to one. wefored one to few, 329 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.920 but what does it take to really get ABM running its scale for a 330 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.559 larger setup accounts? Yeah, I'm happy I talked about the one to man 331 00:23:55.789 --> 00:23:59.950 these. But one final story on that's that you're reminded me of, as 332 00:23:59.990 --> 00:24:03.869 you talked about the no CTA thing, for reminds you of how the story 333 00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:08.190 that my cm a looty letter, more often tells people, which is around 334 00:24:08.269 --> 00:24:12.980 wedding rings, and he says like Hey, diamond rings weren't a thing, 335 00:24:14.859 --> 00:24:19.579 but a company that makes diamonds try to instill it as tradition within a lot 336 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:27.049 of people and eventually, over time it became symbolic for something else not related 337 00:24:27.049 --> 00:24:30.049 to buying a diamond ring. And that wasn't even a call to action. 338 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:34.369 But really the strategy was to influence the market enough to make this as a 339 00:24:34.529 --> 00:24:38.559 part of the tradition of what they do, and the mini gone campaign is 340 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.720 kind of an example of that. Is have as many don travel around. 341 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.359 It's not as empathlaws a diamond ring, nor it is that's expensive. That 342 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.230 reminds me of something similar. That's that's fantastic. The so the one of 343 00:24:52.309 --> 00:24:57.670 many piece. An easy way to do this is to really hone in on 344 00:24:57.950 --> 00:25:03.069 your IC Ping. We talked a lot about it gone around Jeffrey Moore's crossing 345 00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:07.700 the Chasm of strategy from going from really like the innovators to the early adopters, 346 00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:12.579 to the early majority to the welight majority. And what we've done is 347 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:18.859 we look at different clusters of customers. Where are their clusters of customers? 348 00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:23.329 Where if one prospect saw that we had these five customers that are the early 349 00:25:23.450 --> 00:25:27.410 majority, or maybe the the innovators in the category, they would almost feel 350 00:25:27.410 --> 00:25:32.809 like they're being left behind. And this is a very simple one to many 351 00:25:32.890 --> 00:25:36.599 strategy because once you've identify those things, and one of the ones that we 352 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:41.559 identify and identified where we have a ton of customers around is Martech, for 353 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:47.000 example. So we have customers likes and no so like drift, like hub 354 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.230 spot, for example, and if you were to show those three logos to 355 00:25:51.910 --> 00:25:55.789 anyone in more attack you would definitely get their head to turn. And we 356 00:25:55.869 --> 00:26:00.150 were able to deploy, you know, an outreach sequence, a direct mail 357 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:06.019 play, and just not even drastically changing the slide deck there, but changing 358 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:10.859 it so much that it still feels very relevant to that target audience and we 359 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:12.980 were able to deploy that across the entire more text space, which is a 360 00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:17.420 pretty large set of accounts. If you looked at the lumascape today, you 361 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:19.890 probably see seven thousand accounts from there. So that's the thousands of the one 362 00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:23.730 of many type strategy that we've been able to employed. It's some pretty good 363 00:26:23.769 --> 00:26:29.329 success. It's still early days for us, candidly and rolling a campaign like 364 00:26:29.369 --> 00:26:32.920 that out, but what we expect to see is for the late majority to 365 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:38.480 be captures, a lot more than mortech companies to be penetrated and higher closed 366 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:42.880 rates, higher asp etc. Etc. Yeah, that's amazing because I when 367 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:47.119 you're describing your one too many strategy, it really kind of goes back to 368 00:26:47.869 --> 00:26:52.349 the fundamentals that you outlined in your commandments around multi channel and you're really thinking 369 00:26:52.349 --> 00:26:56.150 about the outreach, you're thinking about what channels you're using for air cover and 370 00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:00.309 you know the language and the ICP and it just sounds like, from what 371 00:27:00.430 --> 00:27:07.140 you're saying, it is possible to do abm at scale to many people, 372 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:12.220 and it's almost as if when conversations start to get more one to one, 373 00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:15.579 that's when you start to employ the one to few, in the one to 374 00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:21.690 one to get more meaningful relationships as you ultimately partner with organizations to help them 375 00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:25.369 with the revenant. Yeah, absolutely. In the hard thing, I think, 376 00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:27.369 for ABM marketers today is to figure out what is that? Right now, 377 00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:32.480 it's where should I focus on? Is a nature of my business where 378 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:33.680 I need to focus a get on the one to one because I have, 379 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:38.119 you know, six, seven figure a CV and and my Tan has really 380 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.720 really smond finite? Or do I need to do all one to many, 381 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.230 or do I need to do something of a balance, something like what we're 382 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:48.630 doing over here at long instead of finding that right bounces is is that a 383 00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:52.589 really, really hard challenge? Presses to this marketers. Amazing. We are 384 00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:56.109 coming up on time, but I wanted to finish with one last question. 385 00:27:56.150 --> 00:27:59.700 In Two thousand and twenty s on everyone's mind right now. In fact, 386 00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:02.579 most people will probably be listening to this in two thousand and twenty. So 387 00:28:03.619 --> 00:28:06.660 tell us, like, what are you most excited about going into two thousand 388 00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:12.730 and twenty from just a marketing business standpoint? Yeah, but I'm looking forward 389 00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:18.690 to in two thousand and twenty is, candidly, it's really seeing the advancement 390 00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:27.039 of where we at can take our data program honestly, that's one of the 391 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:32.559 things that we talked about a lot. But earlier we talked about how accounts 392 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:37.519 and having that alignment from a sales and marketing perspective is crucial. But the 393 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.710 the underpinning of that, right above your sales and marketing alignment, is the 394 00:28:41.789 --> 00:28:47.349 data infrastructure that you're feeding to create some of these programs, and that's things 395 00:28:47.509 --> 00:28:51.789 like maybe it's a maybe it's a data fox, maybe it's a discoverer to 396 00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:56.700 to fill your account level data. Maybe it's a clear bit, a lusha 397 00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.859 elite Iq to fill your contact that of level data. Maybe it's like a 398 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:04.380 zoom in film discover. We're combined to fill all those gaps right and we're 399 00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:10.690 at gone really pushing our sophistication there, because again it's the underpinning of our 400 00:29:10.930 --> 00:29:15.809 ability to scale our entire organization. We're going to go from what's hopefully are 401 00:29:15.930 --> 00:29:21.690 what is currently, excuse me, around maybe sixty or Seventi sellars today, 402 00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:25.680 and we're going to bring that to a hundred plus in two thousand and twenty, 403 00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.839 and so we're scaling the Organization fight a bit. From a marketing perspective, 404 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:33.599 we're going from for marketers, when I joined only ten or eleven months 405 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.440 ago to now eleven and will be twenty five and the next two fours or 406 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.029 so, and so we're hiring really rapidly. And again, the the data 407 00:29:41.990 --> 00:29:47.910 infrastructure that we're really really working on sophisticating is is something I really excited about 408 00:29:47.910 --> 00:29:49.670 two thousand and twenty. That does sound super exciting and I think that would 409 00:29:49.710 --> 00:29:52.059 probably be one of my biggest things that I'm excited about as well. I 410 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:56.779 think data has just come so far. Are and, as I think someone 411 00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:59.099 said recently, and I can't remember who it was, dated as a new 412 00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:02.700 oil. Can't have the engine really running without having it nice and lubricated, 413 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:04.140 right. Yeah, yeah, well, Russell, I want to thank you 414 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:07.849 so much for joining today. It was a pleasure speaking with you. Tell 415 00:30:07.890 --> 00:30:11.769 our listeners how can they follow you and learn more about going? How can 416 00:30:11.769 --> 00:30:15.130 they stay in touch and just hear all the amazing things you have to say 417 00:30:15.210 --> 00:30:21.369 on social sure please do. Connect with me on Linkedn, big Linkedin user. 418 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.000 My girlfriend, phily wants to kill me for it, but I spent 419 00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:26.640 a lot of time on linked and so feel free to shove me a connection 420 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.720 or US and more than happy to continue the conversation there. Do you want 421 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.160 to learn more about Gong and some of the roles were hiring for? I 422 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:40.230 would definitely encourage you to. That's ww Dit Bong Doto, and you can 423 00:30:40.309 --> 00:30:44.309 follow us on rinked in, twitter on facebook as well. Perfect. Well, 424 00:30:44.390 --> 00:30:47.789 that's all for today. Everyone. If you haven't subscribed yet, please 425 00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:51.220 subscribe to the series to hear the latest from leaders on the B Tob grow 426 00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:56.700 show. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks down, we totally get it. 427 00:30:57.019 --> 00:31:00.660 We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot 428 00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:04.569 to keep up with. That's why we've started the B tob growth big three, 429 00:31:04.970 --> 00:31:10.170 a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire 430 00:31:10.289 --> 00:31:15.769 week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three, that 431 00:31:15.930 --> 00:31:18.039 sweetish Mediacom Big Three