7 Steps to Book the 10 Best Sales Calls Ever

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.960 welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweet fish media. I'm 2 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:12.840 joined today by Catherine Martin. She's the marketing manager over at narrative 3 00:00:12.840 --> 00:00:16.590 science. Catherine, welcome to the show. How you doing today? Hey, Logan. Good. 4 00:00:16.590 --> 00:00:21.060 Thanks for having me. Absolutely. You have become a good friend of mine is 5 00:00:21.060 --> 00:00:24.320 We've been working with the narrative science team over the last couple of 6 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.250 months. And I love the way that you guys have adopted content based 7 00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:32.130 networking, Not on Lee to your podcast initiatives which, you know, full 8 00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:36.340 disclosure were involved with but on several fronts you guys have been using 9 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:40.310 content based networking is kind of a marketing superpower. So I am really 10 00:00:40.310 --> 00:00:45.370 excited to dive into your journey on realizing this strategy and break down 11 00:00:45.380 --> 00:00:49.050 tactically how you guys air executing it with your podcast and with other 12 00:00:49.050 --> 00:00:52.650 channels. But before we get to all of that, Catherine, we got to know, Are 13 00:00:52.650 --> 00:00:58.510 you team coke or team Pepsi? Oh, wow. Team Coke, I would say like the number 14 00:00:58.510 --> 00:01:03.040 one place to get a Coke has got to be McDonald's. Ah, large McDonald's coke 15 00:01:03.050 --> 00:01:08.590 beats everything. So for just a buck to Yes. Alright. This podcast is not 16 00:01:08.590 --> 00:01:12.580 sponsored by McDonald's. We don't want to get in any trouble there, but I love 17 00:01:12.580 --> 00:01:15.370 that response. That's the first time I've gotten, you know, a little bit of 18 00:01:15.370 --> 00:01:19.250 color of not just team Coker team Pepsi, but where you should be getting it. I 19 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:23.380 love that. Well, Catherine, tell us a little bit about your journey over the 20 00:01:23.380 --> 00:01:27.320 last couple of months you just presented at G twos. Now, virtual reach 21 00:01:27.330 --> 00:01:32.450 event. Ah, few weeks back about your journey with content based networking. 22 00:01:32.450 --> 00:01:37.680 Tell us a little bit about your journey and kind of the the shift that it has 23 00:01:37.690 --> 00:01:42.180 had for you as a marketer in the way that you approach different channels in 24 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:47.540 different campaigns. Yeah, I would say it all starts with we saw saw an 25 00:01:47.540 --> 00:01:53.330 opportunity. We generated a lot of awareness and we knew Every marketer 26 00:01:53.330 --> 00:01:56.830 knows that when you generate a lot of leads and awareness, especially quality 27 00:01:56.830 --> 00:02:01.430 leads, people will come back and they'll ask you Where is the revenue on 28 00:02:01.430 --> 00:02:07.150 those things? Take time. And so for us focusing on an account based marketing 29 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:11.840 strategy felt like a great opportunity to convert those quality leads and 30 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:18.160 start to target the accounts, and content based networking came in as a 31 00:02:18.160 --> 00:02:23.480 lever for our account based marketing strategy that kept it human. I think a 32 00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:27.980 lot of times people get stuck and sort of gimmicky. They decided to do account 33 00:02:27.980 --> 00:02:32.360 based marketing, but they're really just sending people swag that that you 34 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.920 don't really like. And you know, we wanted to stay human. We felt like 35 00:02:35.920 --> 00:02:39.120 that's why people were responding to our brand in the first place. And 36 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.660 content based networking was how we were going to continue to do that and 37 00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:46.590 established relationships with people rather than just, you know, use 38 00:02:46.590 --> 00:02:51.810 gimmicks. I love that you come back to the crux of relationships if if you're 39 00:02:51.810 --> 00:02:55.000 a new listener to the show or you haven't heard other stories here in the 40 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.500 content based networking Siris on B two b growth, the way that I always define 41 00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:03.350 it is content marketing. We all understand, right? You create content 42 00:03:03.340 --> 00:03:07.500 for your ideal buyer, content based networking says you reach into that 43 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:12.280 audience and you create content with your ideal buyer and that just one 44 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:17.190 change in that one word allows you to kind of have a double edged sword in my 45 00:03:17.190 --> 00:03:20.820 opinion, because you still create content. You still slice and dice that 46 00:03:20.820 --> 00:03:25.680 and create awareness and potentially generate leads. But instead of cranking 47 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:29.330 away on that block post or or developing that webinar with a thought 48 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:32.630 leader, that hopefully reaches a prospect, you're going to your 49 00:03:32.630 --> 00:03:36.540 prospects. You're putting your sales had on or you're a B m had on and 50 00:03:36.540 --> 00:03:39.850 saying, I'm gonna go directly to that prospect and I'm going to feature them 51 00:03:39.850 --> 00:03:44.090 as a guest in this content, whether that's an e book, a webinar, a podcast. 52 00:03:44.100 --> 00:03:48.190 And so at the end of the day, even if that content doesn't generate a lot of 53 00:03:48.190 --> 00:03:53.110 reach, you could generate revenue based on that relationship with the prospect 54 00:03:53.110 --> 00:03:57.480 that you invited to be a guest as part of your content. Catherine. What? What 55 00:03:57.480 --> 00:04:01.550 was it for you that kind of caused this unlock? I know you mentioned to me 56 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.730 previously, um, you guys were running some virtual events, especially with 57 00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:10.190 cove it and the shift there. What was kind of that? Ah ha! Moment for you 58 00:04:10.190 --> 00:04:14.130 during virtual events to realize hey, we should actually feature prospects 59 00:04:14.140 --> 00:04:18.089 and not just kind of authors and thought leaders, everybody kind of 60 00:04:18.089 --> 00:04:22.270 thinks, Hey, I want to get these big names to then reach my prospects. But 61 00:04:22.270 --> 00:04:26.160 you realized content based networking was the better path to go there. Tell 62 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:30.110 us a little bit about that. I think sometimes as marketers, we can get 63 00:04:30.110 --> 00:04:34.890 caught up in in vanity metrics. But really what it boils down. Teoh is 64 00:04:34.890 --> 00:04:40.200 reverse engineering what your ultimate goal is. And so for me, is someone in 65 00:04:40.210 --> 00:04:45.520 demand. Jin on the growth team, You know, my goal is to help sales create 66 00:04:45.520 --> 00:04:50.070 relationships and meet with the right people about our product. You know, I 67 00:04:50.070 --> 00:04:54.940 don't want to just create massive amounts of awareness, but not actually 68 00:04:54.940 --> 00:05:00.070 have anyone qualified or anyone with buyers intent. So having a huge for us, 69 00:05:00.070 --> 00:05:04.030 our audiences is the analytics community. So having a huge analytics 70 00:05:04.030 --> 00:05:09.510 influence or speak at our event in April was great, but I did also feel 71 00:05:09.510 --> 00:05:15.400 like that casts a wide net. It's not a narrow net and content based networking. 72 00:05:15.410 --> 00:05:19.710 You know, you still create great content, better content than me as a 73 00:05:19.710 --> 00:05:23.380 marketer, writing as if I'm an analytics person because it's not as 74 00:05:23.390 --> 00:05:28.860 not as valuable Azaz an actual analytics persons expertise. But now 75 00:05:29.140 --> 00:05:32.960 you know. Not only am I creating content from the lens of the analytics 76 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:37.730 leader by featuring someone, but I'm not just featuring an influencer. This 77 00:05:37.730 --> 00:05:41.990 time I am meeting one on one and establishing a relationship with 78 00:05:41.990 --> 00:05:45.890 someone that my sales team wants to talk. Thio. So looking at their target 79 00:05:45.890 --> 00:05:50.600 accounts, pulling out, you know, the people that maybe have engaged with us 80 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:54.970 in the past but haven't gotten interested in our product just yet and 81 00:05:54.970 --> 00:05:59.240 establishing a 1 to 1 relationship with them where maybe they speak it up. 82 00:05:59.250 --> 00:06:03.040 Upcoming event. Maybe I interviewed them for 20 minutes on a topic that's 83 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:07.740 relevant to them on then, you know, now I'm connected with them on LinkedIn. I 84 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:13.260 mean, I just had a conversation with someone who was on our video cast last 85 00:06:13.260 --> 00:06:17.060 week just about like, you know, she was sharing content with me for the 86 00:06:17.060 --> 00:06:20.960 analytics community. I was asking her for feedback on some other content 87 00:06:20.960 --> 00:06:23.890 we're creating. This is someone that I know. My sales team down the line would 88 00:06:23.890 --> 00:06:28.370 want to talk Thio, and we've sort of become pseudo friends, and I think, 89 00:06:28.370 --> 00:06:33.440 like I would say friends, honestly, I would think that that relationship 90 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:37.340 having that would be much more beneficial than just casting that wide 91 00:06:37.340 --> 00:06:42.810 net by pulling an influencer and and honestly, when we feature people that 92 00:06:42.820 --> 00:06:47.450 don't think of themselves as influencers, they tend to promote the 93 00:06:47.450 --> 00:06:53.100 content even more because they're so proud and and so excited and feels so 94 00:06:53.110 --> 00:06:57.250 good to be a part of it. We ultimately have to Seymour reach from that work, 95 00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:02.060 then the reach with e influencers as well. I love that, Katherine. That's 96 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:05.480 exactly how we thought about it with me to be growth, you know, we featured big 97 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:10.740 names like Gary V and Simon Cynic. But what most people wouldn't think is that 98 00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:14.260 those Gary V episodes are some of our least downloaded episodes, because they 99 00:07:14.260 --> 00:07:19.080 could listen to him anywhere and everywhere on any platform but where it 100 00:07:19.080 --> 00:07:23.330 helps. I think even Mawr is when I reach out to marketers like you who are 101 00:07:23.330 --> 00:07:27.450 at a manager or director role at a SAS company that we want to work with, and 102 00:07:27.450 --> 00:07:30.760 I say, Hey, we've had Gary V and Simon Sinek on our podcast, what a lot of 103 00:07:30.760 --> 00:07:35.210 people say as well. I'm no Gary V. But you know, I would love to be featured, 104 00:07:35.210 --> 00:07:39.300 right, and it has that same sort of effect so I can speak firsthand toe 105 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:42.600 what you're talking about there. There's value in having those 106 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:45.500 influencers, but it's actually a different value than you think it's 107 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:48.960 going to be. It's gonna help you be able to interview more prospects that 108 00:07:48.970 --> 00:07:54.130 more so than it's gonna help you reach more prospects, as as listeners of your 109 00:07:54.130 --> 00:07:57.940 show. So you mentioned something there, Catherine, that I think might be a 110 00:07:57.940 --> 00:08:00.950 little bit counterintuitive. There might be some marketers listening to 111 00:08:00.950 --> 00:08:07.270 this that say, You know, relationships is really sales job and reach is our 112 00:08:07.270 --> 00:08:12.470 job as a marketing team. And so when I talk to marketers about using content 113 00:08:12.470 --> 00:08:16.710 based networking as part of their A B M strategy, they think, Oh, yeah, we 114 00:08:16.710 --> 00:08:20.430 could slice and dice our podcast content and then use that in 115 00:08:20.430 --> 00:08:23.960 programmatic ads to put that content in front of the right decision makers. And 116 00:08:23.960 --> 00:08:27.610 I say, Well, hold on. This could be a lot easier if you just go to those 117 00:08:27.610 --> 00:08:31.180 decision makers and stop putting display ads in front of them or sending 118 00:08:31.180 --> 00:08:34.630 them cheap wine bottles like you said in your linked in post and just invite 119 00:08:34.630 --> 00:08:38.490 them to be guests on the show. But there seems to be the shift that 120 00:08:38.490 --> 00:08:44.520 marketers have to get over and say No. I am responsible for helping sales 121 00:08:44.530 --> 00:08:49.910 develop relationships. And if I conform friendships with strategic people who 122 00:08:49.910 --> 00:08:54.280 are decision makers at target accounts, then I'm amore effective marketer. How 123 00:08:54.280 --> 00:08:58.530 do you balance that kind of stepping into sales? Roll it a little bit. What 124 00:08:58.530 --> 00:09:02.540 was that like for you? And what has maybe your sales teams feedback been in? 125 00:09:02.540 --> 00:09:07.610 Maybe taking on quote unquote part of their job? Yeah, So I think a couple of 126 00:09:07.610 --> 00:09:11.530 different things, obviously like you need to generate awareness around your 127 00:09:11.530 --> 00:09:16.520 brand. Obviously, generating interest in quality leads. It's something 128 00:09:16.520 --> 00:09:21.800 important to marketing. But like I said earlier, like for me, doing this comes 129 00:09:21.810 --> 00:09:25.740 down to like my firm belief that marketing should be able to track back 130 00:09:25.740 --> 00:09:30.280 to revenue. And when I look at the goals that I measured up against and 131 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:35.250 how Maney you know, quality leads that turn into meetings and conversations 132 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:40.150 that our team is measured up against on and needs to generate, I know that 133 00:09:41.140 --> 00:09:45.910 taking the time to talk to these people individually, being able to go back 134 00:09:45.920 --> 00:09:50.150 with an ask for product feedback or a demo or trialist so much easier when we 135 00:09:50.150 --> 00:09:54.210 already have the relationship with them, eh? So I can take some of the awareness 136 00:09:54.210 --> 00:09:58.610 work that I'm doing. You know, our virtual event had over 3000 people. Um, 137 00:09:58.610 --> 00:10:02.890 a lot of those were right in our I C P R are ideal customer profile. They were 138 00:10:02.890 --> 00:10:06.270 a good fit for our products, but they had never heard of our product before 139 00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:11.080 me just emailing them. Something about trying. Our product probably wouldn't 140 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:14.890 work. No one likes to attend an event and right off the bat, just get sold. 141 00:10:14.890 --> 00:10:20.480 Thio. So this was an opportunity for me to move those people down the funnel to 142 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:25.570 get them closer to conversion because they not only know us as a brand, and 143 00:10:25.640 --> 00:10:29.510 we provided valuing education. But now we're making them feel good as a 144 00:10:29.510 --> 00:10:34.530 thought leader, and they know who I am, Catherine as a person and that really 145 00:10:34.530 --> 00:10:38.560 aligned while with some of our other marketing tactics, like emailing people 146 00:10:38.570 --> 00:10:42.330 with like actual people's email addresses, not like a general marketing 147 00:10:42.330 --> 00:10:46.680 email using plain text, some of those things. So for naturally, for me, I 148 00:10:46.680 --> 00:10:52.310 think the strategy made sense. But you do have to put a little bit of a sales 149 00:10:52.310 --> 00:10:57.390 hat on. And it was one of those things where I think sometimes, because we are 150 00:10:57.390 --> 00:11:01.550 so spoiled with all of this automation software that we have that you want to 151 00:11:01.550 --> 00:11:07.450 scale right away and you know your mind automatically goes to, like, How big 152 00:11:07.450 --> 00:11:13.050 can this be? But when we dipped our toe into content based networking for us, 153 00:11:13.060 --> 00:11:16.940 we just wanted to know, like, could I get 10 quality conversations for our 154 00:11:16.940 --> 00:11:21.780 sales team this month just from doing this work? And that time ultimately led 155 00:11:21.780 --> 00:11:28.090 to success there. They were really good conversations that that sales. They 156 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:31.300 really wanted to talk to these people, and I was able to contribute that for 157 00:11:31.300 --> 00:11:37.590 them. And that's much better than me saying Here are, Ah, 100 people from 158 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:41.600 our event follow up with them and then sales, looking through that list and 159 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:45.860 being like 50% of these I don't care about because they have their own sort 160 00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:49.490 of, you know, opinion on that, and there's always that back and forth that 161 00:11:49.490 --> 00:11:53.400 could be challenging for marketing. But I was really solving for ultimately 162 00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:58.940 what was setting the sales team up for success, which in return helps me track 163 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:02.460 my work back to revenue, which is ultimately what I should be measured 164 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:07.420 and focused on. So trying it out first and a non scalable manner was really 165 00:12:07.420 --> 00:12:11.620 helpful to see the value there. And then now we've started to test out even 166 00:12:11.620 --> 00:12:17.560 new iterations of it, where we've added our sales team to the mix. So, you know, 167 00:12:17.560 --> 00:12:24.710 could we do 5 to 8 minute little videos where members of our sales team are, 168 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.510 you know, interviewing people that they want to talk Thio And that's their 169 00:12:28.510 --> 00:12:31.920 entry point in a relationship with them. So I don't have to own all of the 170 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:35.860 content based networking relationships, but I still can create really good 171 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:41.270 podcast episodes. I still can, you know, create e books with potential guests 172 00:12:41.270 --> 00:12:46.970 and interviews, and that is also layered on top of this now sales um, 173 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:52.740 sales strategy. Tua's well, that helps them get through on get into some 174 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.570 accounts that they had just haven't been able to yet. Yeah, let's break 175 00:12:56.570 --> 00:13:00.970 down that e book example because that was part of your presentation. Fergie 176 00:13:00.970 --> 00:13:05.170 twos reach conference. Tell us a little bit about how you applied content based 177 00:13:05.170 --> 00:13:09.560 networking. Who you reached out to, why you selected them. What was the follow 178 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:12.420 up like and what were some of the results? And then we can kind of talk 179 00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:16.890 about some recommendations for other folks on how they could replicate what 180 00:13:16.890 --> 00:13:19.910 you're doing with the book and what you're doing with the podcast. But step 181 00:13:19.910 --> 00:13:24.330 by step, this e book approach that is not just Hey, let's generate any book 182 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:28.020 that we've We've produced the content and then run ads against that and then 183 00:13:28.020 --> 00:13:32.240 run SDR Follow up after that. Like that is the broken playbook that folks like 184 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:37.000 Chris Walker and Gitano Denard are pointing out all over the place. And so 185 00:13:37.010 --> 00:13:40.590 this e book campaign, you guys went very, very differently. You took a 186 00:13:40.590 --> 00:13:44.850 content based networking approach. Walk us through how you did this differently, 187 00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:48.360 step by step, because I think that's really where folks, we're gonna kind of 188 00:13:48.370 --> 00:13:54.190 maybe have the light bulb moment that you had. Yeah, so for context. In April, 189 00:13:54.200 --> 00:14:00.320 we hosted a virtual event and we had a goal of having 1000 people register. We 190 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.270 ended up having over 3000 people register and the quality there was 191 00:14:04.270 --> 00:14:08.050 really good. This was probably the biggest event we've done from, like a 192 00:14:08.050 --> 00:14:13.980 legion awareness perspective as a team. And we were We were really proud of 193 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:18.550 that effort. But you know, that's when you get the question like, When does 194 00:14:18.550 --> 00:14:22.130 this? When does this contribute to revenue? How do we get these people to 195 00:14:22.130 --> 00:14:25.890 buy the product that always comes next? When you when you do something like 196 00:14:25.890 --> 00:14:30.790 that, which is a valid question. So this idea for the book, you know, we 197 00:14:30.790 --> 00:14:34.540 had started working with you all. We've been doing a weekly video, Siri's, and 198 00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:39.040 we had just shifted inviting guests, um, to take more of a content based 199 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:43.450 networking approach so shifted from just having influencers Thio now having 200 00:14:43.450 --> 00:14:48.010 potential clients and our target accounts as guests as well. And I 201 00:14:48.010 --> 00:14:52.820 thought to myself, You know, that's working, but we could only dio our 202 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:56.450 teams capacity. We only do one a week, so that means I can only talk to four 203 00:14:56.450 --> 00:15:02.650 people a month and if I need to get sales like help sales like let's just 204 00:15:02.650 --> 00:15:07.180 start with 10. Like, could I get 10 like 10 of the best you know meeting 205 00:15:07.180 --> 00:15:11.400 sales has ever had in one month? How would I do that? And so just reverse 206 00:15:11.400 --> 00:15:15.120 engineering from that goal, just as a starting point knowing that we 207 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.810 generated these lists of quality people that we wanted to get closer to product, 208 00:15:19.810 --> 00:15:24.860 that was the first place I looked. So I pulled two different lists. I was 209 00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:29.370 looking at people who had attended our event that were in our I C p, um, that 210 00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:33.330 were perfect fits for our product, maybe the right type of title that I 211 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:37.150 knew sales would want to talk Thio the right type of company. I knew sales was 212 00:15:37.150 --> 00:15:41.200 interested in talking Thio and I would look at that and I would say Who's the 213 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:47.040 most engaged? Maybe they had seen prior things that we've done in the past. We 214 00:15:47.040 --> 00:15:51.890 have some behavioral scoring that we that we have in our marketing in in 215 00:15:51.890 --> 00:15:57.240 Salesforce, in Marcato. And so I looked at high engagement scores, people that 216 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.730 have recently been to our event that we're perfect for us that had never 217 00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:05.610 looked at a product page ever. So they just knew us for the educational 218 00:16:05.610 --> 00:16:09.760 content. They were very top of funnel. How can I create relationships with 219 00:16:09.760 --> 00:16:14.440 them? So I started with a small cohort there, pulled out about, I think, about 220 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:18.430 35 people just to start because I wanted to start with 50 because I knew 221 00:16:18.430 --> 00:16:24.210 my goal was around 10 of the best meetings ever. So I started with 30 222 00:16:24.210 --> 00:16:29.060 there, and then I took another list, which was anyone that has ever looked 223 00:16:29.060 --> 00:16:34.080 at our product pages in the past that has never requested a demo. Um, that 224 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.870 had a high engagement score. So these were maybe more middle of the funnel. 225 00:16:37.880 --> 00:16:42.390 They knew kind of more about our product than that first cohort. And I 226 00:16:42.390 --> 00:16:47.630 took another batch there, got got around 50 to 60. Took that list to 227 00:16:47.630 --> 00:16:52.540 sales, had them tell me if they liked. If I need to remove some or if there 228 00:16:52.540 --> 00:16:55.360 was anyone they wanted to add, explained the project to them. 229 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:02.470 Ultimately, we sent somewhere between 50 to 60 asks out to contribute a 230 00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:06.869 playbook to an e book that we were creating about improving data adoption. 231 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:09.260 And so the goal Waas. 232 00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:14.349 You know, we could write our own a book on tips to improve data adoption. But 233 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:18.560 wouldn't the content be so much better if it came from the people that are 234 00:17:18.569 --> 00:17:23.829 actively thinking about that every day and then in return? You know, I could 235 00:17:23.829 --> 00:17:27.780 meet with each of them for 20 minutes and have a candid conversation with 236 00:17:27.780 --> 00:17:33.030 them about topics that they're interested in and having that 237 00:17:33.030 --> 00:17:37.180 relationship later on. It's a lot easier for me to go back and ask for 238 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.320 products, feedback or even just a pretrial, because those were things 239 00:17:41.320 --> 00:17:46.380 that were capable of doing. And that would be where I could pass them off to 240 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:50.880 sales and create those 10 great meetings on the interesting thing about 241 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:56.000 it. You know, not only did we get really valuable content, we're almost 242 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.060 done producing that a book. We're going through our final rounds of design and 243 00:17:59.060 --> 00:18:04.000 copy edits, but we also asked once we started to do these interviews, I 244 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:08.440 started Thio. Ask additional questions to help us refine our messaging, help 245 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:12.300 us know where they're going to get information, who they're following. So 246 00:18:12.300 --> 00:18:15.910 if we did want to use influencers at some point to get more credibility like 247 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.860 who else? Speak a teacher. What are other problems? That they're facing 248 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.410 things like that that will not only help us iterate our message, our 249 00:18:23.410 --> 00:18:28.130 content where we put it as a marketing team. But then we also got a Grady book 250 00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:32.140 out of it. I have all these relationships now, which is great. Some 251 00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:35.390 of them even just asked us to try the product after that because it was sort 252 00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:40.300 of like, Oh, like I didn't even have to ask. I think just because I was nice 253 00:18:40.310 --> 00:18:45.340 and made them feel important and they provided value to me and we had a great 254 00:18:45.340 --> 00:18:49.070 conversation, the ones that already knew a little bit about what we did, 255 00:18:49.340 --> 00:18:52.420 some of them just flat out asked if they could talk to sales, which is 256 00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:56.660 great. And then, you know, I haven't made the ask yet, But the plan and the 257 00:18:56.660 --> 00:19:02.170 strategy now is to go back to those based off the conversation that I had. 258 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.690 And if it feels like there's synergy there, you know, I could say, Hey, you 259 00:19:07.690 --> 00:19:12.210 said this when we were talking about data adoption based off that, you know, 260 00:19:12.210 --> 00:19:15.640 you might be interested in trying this and we'd love for you to try it for 261 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:20.800 free. Here's why. And that ask has so much more credibility then, like let's 262 00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:25.030 think about the alternative of me doing this work, which would be taking that 263 00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:32.280 entire list from our event and just sending them all the same email about 264 00:19:32.290 --> 00:19:36.330 why they should demo our product. I think the hit rate to that would be a 265 00:19:36.330 --> 00:19:39.900 lot lower. And if we're already implementing account based marketing 266 00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:43.900 strategy where you roll out the red carpet for the right people, you know I 267 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:50.330 can still send that email to the other 2000, you know, and see what hit. But 268 00:19:50.340 --> 00:19:53.980 these were the ideal people that I know. My sales team already told me that they 269 00:19:53.980 --> 00:19:57.620 would love to be in a room with whether it was about the product or not. They 270 00:19:57.620 --> 00:20:01.230 want to establish relationships with some of these accounts, so I should 271 00:20:01.230 --> 00:20:04.660 roll out the red carpet to them and that asked, should be more personalized. 272 00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:10.060 And it's not necessarily me, like actively selling them. It's coming with 273 00:20:10.060 --> 00:20:14.580 them like I know what problems that these actual individuals air facing. I 274 00:20:14.580 --> 00:20:19.210 know what they're thinking about every day, so it makes that ask just so much 275 00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:23.180 easier. But it was a nice surprise that I didn't always have to make the ask 276 00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:28.250 Tua's. Well, Catherine, that is such a phenomenal story. And it it goes back 277 00:20:28.250 --> 00:20:31.740 to, you know, I'm glad you did it justice, because I kind of teed you up 278 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:36.620 like, hey, you guys were taking the e book approach entirely differently. And 279 00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:41.110 just to hear the results that you've generated by, you know, setting out to 280 00:20:41.110 --> 00:20:46.050 set the 10 best sales appointments ever. The 10 best meetings ever. Yeah, they 281 00:20:46.050 --> 00:20:49.600 could have more than that. I'm just gonna be responsible for the best ones. 282 00:20:49.610 --> 00:20:54.840 They're Ugo. I love that approach. And I love the way that you approach it 283 00:20:54.840 --> 00:20:59.110 just very systematically. Okay, we had 3000 people attend this event, right? I 284 00:20:59.110 --> 00:21:02.890 could go the Spammy Mount marketing route and hit them with a drip sequence 285 00:21:02.890 --> 00:21:07.480 until they unsubscribe and maybe, you know, 1% requests a demo, but they're 286 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.360 not the best fit anyway. And sales was like, uh I don't really care about 287 00:21:11.360 --> 00:21:15.910 those 3000 attendees that you guys were all excited about. Right? So you took 288 00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:20.250 that list and you did something different with it. You not only called 289 00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:23.660 it and looked at it from a marketing perspective and looked at engagement 290 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:27.930 rates, which, you know, folks. I talked to it Terminus, and folks like that are 291 00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:31.860 thinking in those terms when it comes to being an account based marketer. But 292 00:21:31.860 --> 00:21:36.470 you also took it to sales and said, Help me call this list, Help me add to 293 00:21:36.470 --> 00:21:40.320 it helped me kind of form it. I've got a raw piece of clay. Let's work on this 294 00:21:40.320 --> 00:21:43.520 together and that's really you know, you could say sales and marketing 295 00:21:43.520 --> 00:21:47.180 alignment all the time and say, Well, we've got these share dashboards But 296 00:21:47.180 --> 00:21:51.300 it's in those conversations where the sales team is like Wait, Catherine, 297 00:21:51.300 --> 00:21:55.140 your spending time on this like you're taking a close look at these leads that 298 00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:59.490 you want to generate for us and asking me before you just pass them over and 299 00:21:59.490 --> 00:22:03.510 say, All right, we hit our m que el quota for the month or the quarter or 300 00:22:03.510 --> 00:22:08.180 whatever. Like to me, that had to kind of take sales by surprise and make them 301 00:22:08.180 --> 00:22:11.720 think differently about you and the team and what you guys were doing for 302 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:16.650 them. Am I right? Yeah. I mean, and it's been a really positive thing, you 303 00:22:16.650 --> 00:22:21.840 know. The great thing about it, too, is now that we not only for this e book 304 00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:26.170 strategy, but also with our podcast that we're producing with you all. 305 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:30.510 We've started to record some of those episodes. We had a video cast serious 306 00:22:30.510 --> 00:22:36.680 that we did as well and sales now, knowing what I'm working on and how it 307 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:41.440 ties to the target accounts that they want to be a part of, they'll start 308 00:22:41.450 --> 00:22:45.090 asking people to be on. You know they'll they'll run it by me first. But 309 00:22:45.090 --> 00:22:48.320 they'll they'll invite guests. You know, they're they're using it as an 310 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:53.400 opportunity for them to a swell because they saw the benefit of it and 311 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.690 implementing this strategy. So it makes my job a little bit easier when it 312 00:22:57.690 --> 00:23:01.450 comes to producing some of these pieces because they're bought in Azaz well, 313 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:06.650 and it's even helping them to like established relationships with people 314 00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:09.690 that, you know, if they just emailed them about our product or just 315 00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:13.950 connected with them on LinkedIn about our products like they never would have 316 00:23:14.540 --> 00:23:20.670 responded. Probably especially since, like our product is so different than 317 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:26.770 what you would expect from like a data tool. It takes a little bit for you 318 00:23:26.770 --> 00:23:32.760 since it's so new. And it's a new take on how people should digest data like 319 00:23:32.770 --> 00:23:37.250 it's hard for that to come. Like to get someone to buy completely into it in an 320 00:23:37.260 --> 00:23:42.780 ad or, you know, it's just not what you expect. That's why we needed toe to do 321 00:23:42.780 --> 00:23:47.530 an event with broad awareness in the beginning on and and now we've taken 322 00:23:47.530 --> 00:23:51.450 that brought awareness, regenerated and focused more on that conversion piece 323 00:23:51.450 --> 00:23:57.870 of it and and targeted accounts. Next, eso We've moved into this point now 324 00:23:58.340 --> 00:24:04.640 where they know as well that you can't just send a cold, outbound message 325 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:08.350 about data storytelling to someone that is used to having a dashboard. They 326 00:24:08.350 --> 00:24:12.690 won't. They won't understand the idea of having it read like a news article 327 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:17.450 and not a dashboard. It it takes a little bit more time to get by in. So 328 00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:24.550 having these content based networking relationships formerly on they may be 329 00:24:24.550 --> 00:24:27.850 ready, write off the debt and they may ask you themselves if they could try 330 00:24:27.850 --> 00:24:31.890 the product or it may take some time, but those relationships with people 331 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:35.810 that you know they maybe weren't able to get in front of without it. Which is 332 00:24:35.810 --> 00:24:39.920 the real benefit there? Absolutely. And what I take from what you're saying 333 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:43.600 there Katherine is for marketers who are part of an organization that is 334 00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:48.910 maybe trying to create a new category or lead and an emerging category, or 335 00:24:48.910 --> 00:24:53.900 you just have, ah, fairly complex sales cycle. You know, you have to slow down 336 00:24:53.900 --> 00:24:58.250 in order to speed up right. You have to take a little bit longer, and that 337 00:24:58.250 --> 00:25:02.590 means more time investment. Mawr focused investment rolling out the red 338 00:25:02.590 --> 00:25:07.030 carpet for those prospects as a marketer. It also means sales needs to 339 00:25:07.030 --> 00:25:11.850 slow down a little bit. So, like Phase one would be yet or option number one 340 00:25:11.850 --> 00:25:16.320 rather would be. Hey, I could just send them a cold email, try and create this 341 00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:19.890 distinct pitch and create enough curiosity gap for a meeting, and that 342 00:25:19.900 --> 00:25:26.230 that might work at a 10.5 or 1% reply rate and conversion rate. But your your 343 00:25:26.230 --> 00:25:30.800 reply rates, which I want to pin you on before we get done, but they're going 344 00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:34.930 to be higher. Number two, they could. Hey, marketing has this e book 345 00:25:34.930 --> 00:25:39.350 marketing has this case study I could lead with value. I'm putting big air 346 00:25:39.350 --> 00:25:42.810 quotes around that, because how much value do you think you're adding as a 347 00:25:42.810 --> 00:25:48.750 salesperson Just saying, Hey, Mr Mr Mrs Cold Prospect. Here's an e book that's 348 00:25:48.750 --> 00:25:52.180 gated and you're going to get, you know, sent to Spam Island as soon as you 349 00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:56.260 download it. And it's very self serving content and you've never heard from me 350 00:25:56.260 --> 00:26:00.000 before, so it's kind of like me just giving a gift. You know, out of nowhere, 351 00:26:00.010 --> 00:26:03.660 you're asking, you're still asking for their time. It's almost like you're 352 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:08.190 assuming that you need. You need their time to sit down and read it for them 353 00:26:08.190 --> 00:26:13.330 to actually see value in it. This is something where it's a easier ask. Yes, 354 00:26:13.330 --> 00:26:19.140 you're asking for time to interview them, but I think the benefit of that 355 00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.380 time is so much greater. Especially when you're saying you're you get to be 356 00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:26.860 added to this credible list of influencers versus you know, I need an 357 00:26:26.860 --> 00:26:30.470 hour to interview you where you're gonna be featured next X influencer 358 00:26:30.470 --> 00:26:35.560 that you really look up Thio versus I need an hour of your time, read this 359 00:26:35.570 --> 00:26:40.450 book and then let me know if you think it's valuable or not. When the e books 360 00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:45.760 kind of like a sales pitch. But just more marketing is like That's like, you 361 00:26:45.760 --> 00:26:50.510 know, just not not really an experience people want. They don't have time to 362 00:26:50.510 --> 00:26:56.270 sit down and read the book, and I would argue like E books in general can feel 363 00:26:56.270 --> 00:27:00.330 a little outdated. What I liked about what we did with the E books of the 364 00:27:00.330 --> 00:27:06.170 playbooks is that each interview I had with with one of our ideal customers, 365 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:11.000 it could become its own block post just in their tip alone. Yes, someone can 366 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.610 download all of them and read them together in a pdf, but it's also all 367 00:27:15.610 --> 00:27:19.030 aggregated on a landing page. This is what we're working towards. So it's a 368 00:27:19.030 --> 00:27:21.760 much more modern approach than like what you're talking about with the 369 00:27:21.760 --> 00:27:26.270 traditional gated e book and the benefit. You know, someone in our 370 00:27:26.270 --> 00:27:30.760 database will likely benefit from reading it, but then you know these 371 00:27:30.760 --> 00:27:34.220 people that I'm trying to get closer to the product closer to conversion are 372 00:27:34.220 --> 00:27:39.810 going to benefit from being featured. A swell. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you go 373 00:27:39.810 --> 00:27:44.410 from sending them a cold email. That is just a withdrawal. Give me 15 minutes. 374 00:27:44.410 --> 00:27:49.410 Give me 30 minutes for a qualification call or hey, take an hour to read this 375 00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:53.610 e book. That's ah, you know, thinly veiled sales pitch and stepping away 376 00:27:53.610 --> 00:27:57.620 from all of those Option one and option to and climbing through, you know, not 377 00:27:57.620 --> 00:28:01.540 door number one or door number two. But the window over here that says, Hey, 378 00:28:01.550 --> 00:28:05.390 we've got some content that we would love to feature you in, And I love how 379 00:28:05.390 --> 00:28:09.810 you guys were doing that. So now your sales team is doing what you've done 380 00:28:09.810 --> 00:28:13.490 and inviting those prospects saying, Hey, we have a video. Siri's. Hey, we 381 00:28:13.490 --> 00:28:17.740 have a podcast. Hey, we're rounding up people for this e book. We would love 382 00:28:17.740 --> 00:28:21.310 to feature you. It's still going to be an investment of your time, But no 383 00:28:21.310 --> 00:28:24.810 matter who you are, especially if you're not an influencer. When someone 384 00:28:24.810 --> 00:28:28.750 says, Hey, I think you have value to adhere. I think that you would 385 00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:32.870 contribute some meaningful thoughts from your experience. Guess what human 386 00:28:32.870 --> 00:28:36.880 nature takes in. We like to talk about ourselves. It's the reason that why in 387 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:42.530 sales we have to be reminded toe, listen more and talk less right that we 388 00:28:42.530 --> 00:28:45.530 wouldn't have to be reminded all the time if it weren't just kind of our 389 00:28:45.530 --> 00:28:49.730 default. And so you actually lean into that and say, Hey, Catherine, I'd love 390 00:28:49.730 --> 00:28:53.270 to hear what you and the narrative science team are doing from a marketing 391 00:28:53.270 --> 00:28:56.310 perspective that's that's new and interesting and different. And when I 392 00:28:56.310 --> 00:29:00.120 asked that question, even if we didn't know each other before you jump at that 393 00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:03.790 opportunity because you want to talk about the things that you're doing and 394 00:29:03.790 --> 00:29:06.820 the things that you're learning, it gives us, um, personal satisfaction. 395 00:29:06.830 --> 00:29:11.350 And so you lean into that. And that's what content based networking allows 396 00:29:11.350 --> 00:29:16.830 you to do is just take take advantage is probably the wrong way. Thio say it 397 00:29:16.830 --> 00:29:23.520 right, but it really is giving value. Mawr. You're delivering value first 398 00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:27.110 before you're asking, you know, it's like the emotional bank account analogy 399 00:29:27.110 --> 00:29:30.630 you're depositing Mawr before you asked for that withdrawal, and sometimes 400 00:29:30.630 --> 00:29:33.630 people just give you the withdrawal, right? Like the people that you said, 401 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.940 just ask Hey, can I try the product? And you didn't even say anything Well, 402 00:29:37.940 --> 00:29:44.090 in your detached, too. So, like if that outcome doesn't happen right away or 403 00:29:44.090 --> 00:29:47.190 like, you know, I had an interview with someone that told me they're moving 404 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:50.510 roles and are actually getting a promotion, but they're leaving the 405 00:29:50.510 --> 00:29:54.860 company like, not a good time for me to be like. Now try. You know, like, I'm 406 00:29:54.860 --> 00:29:59.190 not gonna go back to that person and make that ask so you can be a little 407 00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:03.450 detached from the outcome or the ask that you'd like to make eventually. But 408 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:10.070 in the long run, those relationships are gonna be more valuable to the 409 00:30:10.070 --> 00:30:15.450 company than sending people like other companies. Marketing strategies would 410 00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:20.930 be like we mail everyone swag items that no one actually wants. And I, 411 00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:25.370 Katherine spent like 20 hours pretending to be my sales reps writing 412 00:30:25.370 --> 00:30:30.020 handwritten notes from them and then the sales team. Like I give them a list 413 00:30:30.020 --> 00:30:34.780 of 25 people to 50 people. And I'm like email, all of them when you get the 414 00:30:34.780 --> 00:30:39.920 notification and ask if they got the package, like, who's gonna really like 415 00:30:39.930 --> 00:30:44.100 respond to an email that's like, Hey, did you get my T shirt like I'm free 416 00:30:44.100 --> 00:30:48.050 next week? If you want to talk about our products like no one wants that 417 00:30:48.060 --> 00:30:54.490 Andi, That's like we think that we're providing a personalized experience for 418 00:30:54.490 --> 00:30:58.930 the right people. But really, we're just spamming them with stuff they 419 00:30:58.930 --> 00:31:04.100 don't really care about. And so this content based networking strategy is 420 00:31:04.110 --> 00:31:08.830 actual relationship building. I would argue a better approach to account 421 00:31:08.830 --> 00:31:14.030 based marketing. Yes, Does our teams still run retargeting ads and some adds 422 00:31:14.030 --> 00:31:18.930 a swell? Yes. Do we still send emails to our database that educate them on 423 00:31:18.930 --> 00:31:24.310 the product on DWhite? Our clients are doing and things like that to try to 424 00:31:24.310 --> 00:31:27.900 get people closer to conversion. Yes, but this is just a layer that we've 425 00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:33.700 added as well. That makes us more human versus, like the alternative, which 426 00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:37.710 would be me pulling those same lists and like mailing everyone wine bottles 427 00:31:37.710 --> 00:31:41.010 and, you know, maybe they drink the wine, but they won't meet with my sales 428 00:31:41.010 --> 00:31:45.700 team, and ultimately, what I want is them to meet with my sales team. And I 429 00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:50.840 would have wasted all that time printing labels, mail merging labels, 430 00:31:50.850 --> 00:31:56.010 handwriting notes, shipping things like That's just time. Not well spent me. 431 00:31:56.010 --> 00:32:02.690 Katherine, meeting with 25 people for 20 minutes, where I learned more about 432 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:07.290 the problem that our target audience is facing. In addition, to create creating 433 00:32:07.290 --> 00:32:12.400 those relationships is a much better use of my time. So well said, I 434 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.850 couldn't sum it up better than that. Catherine. That was fantastic. As we 435 00:32:15.850 --> 00:32:20.950 close out today, just give us a little recap of the list that you pulled from 436 00:32:20.950 --> 00:32:25.160 that list of 3000. What did that end up being? How many people said yes to 437 00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:28.750 being a guest on some sort of content collaboration, either the book or the 438 00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:32.560 podcast, how Maney meetings has that generated, like walk us through that 439 00:32:32.560 --> 00:32:36.240 real quick And then I want to close with some final thoughts for marketers 440 00:32:36.250 --> 00:32:40.950 to learn from what you've done and what they could apply right away. Yeah, so 441 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:44.910 so for the e book, specifically like we're still running the playbook to the 442 00:32:44.910 --> 00:32:50.720 end. So the way it's structured is we do the interviews from the people that 443 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:57.030 say yes from there, like I'll send them the finalized copy and then based off 444 00:32:57.030 --> 00:33:01.420 of what I know from those relationships. Some of them I'll ask if they want to 445 00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:05.780 provide product feedback or I'll ask if they want to try the product for free 446 00:33:06.140 --> 00:33:09.710 or like some of them. I might wait just depending on what our conversation was 447 00:33:09.710 --> 00:33:13.600 about right now, the stage that we're at, we've conducted all of the 448 00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:17.310 interviews like I was saying to you, Some of them have already asked to try 449 00:33:17.320 --> 00:33:21.650 product, which has been great. We've had had three positive responses 450 00:33:21.650 --> 00:33:28.980 without us even asking. But list size wise, we had about 50 to 65 that I sent 451 00:33:28.990 --> 00:33:32.270 out. The reason I don't know the exact number off the top of my head is 452 00:33:32.270 --> 00:33:37.050 because we've added some new additions based off of sales, saying Hey at this 453 00:33:37.050 --> 00:33:41.920 person to add this person, you know, we've had even people in client success 454 00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:45.930 like say, like, Oh, I want so and so like that I have a relationship with to 455 00:33:45.930 --> 00:33:49.860 be a part of this. So that list has changed over time. The initial list was 456 00:33:49.860 --> 00:33:55.950 about 50 people. So far I've held 20 interviews, so there are more that I'm 457 00:33:55.950 --> 00:34:00.120 still in the process of booking. I'd like to have the book finalized by the 458 00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:04.840 end of the month, but I will have it take longer if that means I get more 459 00:34:04.850 --> 00:34:09.040 conversations, which is totally fine. And again, this is something that we're 460 00:34:09.040 --> 00:34:13.750 trying to figure out how to scale and have more than just those four weekly 461 00:34:13.750 --> 00:34:17.510 interviews that I was talking about with the video Siri's. So Obviously the 462 00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:23.730 volume here with the book is much larger. So, so far, about 20 meetings. 463 00:34:23.739 --> 00:34:27.750 The goal would be to have somewhere between 25 to 30 tips finalized for the 464 00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:32.070 E book when we produce it. And then, you know, we've already had three 465 00:34:32.070 --> 00:34:35.940 people raise their hands without me making the ask. I do have a plan to 466 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:40.710 make an ask. I have a spreadsheet and trying to decide if timing's right. If 467 00:34:40.710 --> 00:34:44.719 I want to be direct about free trials, I can. And there are some people that I 468 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:48.679 definitely will do that with others. Um, you know, I may just introduce them to 469 00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:53.949 sales. It sort of just depends, but even just like three out of 25 470 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:58.070 especially when they're our ideal customer and our target accounts just 471 00:34:58.070 --> 00:35:03.110 as an early indicator for us to scale this strategy is really great. My goal 472 00:35:03.110 --> 00:35:08.630 is to have around 10. Hopefully, by the end of it, I love that and have them 473 00:35:08.630 --> 00:35:13.770 not just be 10 random ones, right, because sales sales would rather I mean 474 00:35:13.770 --> 00:35:17.960 you could You could drum up 100 quote unquote leads with an email and a pulse 475 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:23.150 for sales all day long. Right? I think sales would appreciate. And people who 476 00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:26.020 think about marketing the way that you and I do in the way that folks like 477 00:35:26.020 --> 00:35:33.040 Chris Walker dio would rather have 10 quality leads that are actual demand 478 00:35:33.050 --> 00:35:38.190 interest appointment set, appointment held. Then you know, 100 leads that air, 479 00:35:38.190 --> 00:35:43.250 just an email and a pulse. And I think when you break that down, if you let's 480 00:35:43.250 --> 00:35:47.800 just say for round numbers 50 people and you've gotten, you know, close to 481 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:53.220 25 that's a 50% reply rate. Everybody, let's let's focus on that right and 482 00:35:53.220 --> 00:36:00.640 then three out of those 25. That's a 10 to 15% conversion rate from reply, 483 00:36:00.650 --> 00:36:03.920 which you know there's all sorts of good things that are happening with the 484 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:09.140 other 85% anyway. But let's just look at the 15% that air that air going 485 00:36:09.140 --> 00:36:13.850 further and converting now, not to mention the long term benefits of 486 00:36:13.830 --> 00:36:18.240 building a genuine relationship and the brand affinity with those specific 487 00:36:18.230 --> 00:36:23.330 other you know, 20 plus people. But those air just rates that that we would 488 00:36:23.330 --> 00:36:27.720 kill for in marketing in sales anywhere. So I just want to call those out like 489 00:36:27.730 --> 00:36:32.750 the strategy is effective. The conversion points are are at higher 490 00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:36.420 rates throughout the funnel, as we think about that. And that's what you 491 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:40.120 were saying at the beginning you're thinking about as a marketer. How do I 492 00:36:40.120 --> 00:36:45.510 create better conversion and better outcomes for the sales team? And I see 493 00:36:45.510 --> 00:36:49.540 that in kind of you sharing even some of the early results here Well, and I 494 00:36:49.540 --> 00:36:54.300 you know, we've had moments where our product is so new that we're like 495 00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:57.310 you're saying with creating a brand, creating a category like we're trying 496 00:36:57.310 --> 00:37:03.150 to figure out how thio kind of get that momentum going. And so, you know, we've 497 00:37:03.150 --> 00:37:07.180 had moments where we sat around and we were like yes, like, you know, so many 498 00:37:07.180 --> 00:37:11.750 like requested demos, this one feeling so good and then sales is like I don't 499 00:37:11.750 --> 00:37:15.860 can only talk thio half these. The rest. I'm not like these air. Who are they 500 00:37:15.870 --> 00:37:19.660 like? This is not not They're never gonna buy our product. Blah, blah, blah, 501 00:37:20.030 --> 00:37:26.290 No very early stage like Like you're saying we can generate volume. But 502 00:37:26.290 --> 00:37:31.950 solving for volume isn't solving for revenue, which is at the end of the day 503 00:37:31.950 --> 00:37:36.320 as a marketing team. What what you should be focused on like there should 504 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.690 never be a scenario where the marketing team is sitting around going like, Well, 505 00:37:40.690 --> 00:37:44.640 like we hit our goals and then the sales team is like, bummed out like, 506 00:37:44.650 --> 00:37:48.910 you know, and like, didn't hit their goals. Obviously, there's like a 507 00:37:48.910 --> 00:37:53.950 misalignment there. So, like if sales doesn't hit their opportunity, creation 508 00:37:53.950 --> 00:37:57.350 goals and you're sitting around like we've had the best for Casa demos we've 509 00:37:57.350 --> 00:38:01.740 ever had like that there There's probably something wrong that is a 510 00:38:01.740 --> 00:38:05.660 really great point. Thio end on Catherine like, if that is happening, 511 00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:10.670 you need to change something right? If these two things are happening and I 512 00:38:10.680 --> 00:38:14.520 it's not far from the truth either, right? Like we've we've been there 513 00:38:14.520 --> 00:38:20.300 where marketing is is I love the way Matt Hines put it one time like sales 514 00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:24.020 is hammering and out and grinding till the end of the month. And marketing is 515 00:38:24.020 --> 00:38:28.830 over here at Happy Hour celebrating their retweet or re share goal. You 516 00:38:28.830 --> 00:38:32.650 know, that's kind of the like, ultimate tongue in cheek marketing and sales 517 00:38:32.650 --> 00:38:36.060 misalignment. But what you're saying really rings true, We could be 518 00:38:36.060 --> 00:38:40.760 celebrating the demo request. We could be celebrating the m que Els. But if 519 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:45.250 you're not really focused on revenue and is that yes, they could be leading 520 00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:50.130 indicators, I get that. But for them to be the end all be all for us as 521 00:38:50.130 --> 00:38:54.290 marketing teams, then we're gonna have that sort of misalignment and that sort 522 00:38:54.290 --> 00:38:58.650 of yea and oh no, we're all in the same quarter all in the same month. 523 00:38:58.620 --> 00:39:02.540 Catherine, if anybody listening to this is gonna wants to take some steps to 524 00:39:02.540 --> 00:39:06.290 start leveraging content based networking, whether they have a podcast 525 00:39:06.290 --> 00:39:10.790 or they're doing e books or, you know, whatever the case is, what would be 526 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:15.680 your like? Hey, do this next over the next week. What's 12 or three next 527 00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:20.370 steps that they could take? Yeah, So I think the first list that you should 528 00:39:20.370 --> 00:39:25.040 pull, go into your serum or go into your marketing automation tool wherever 529 00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:28.010 you wanna pull list. Maybe it's Salesforce, maybe a tub spot. Maybe 530 00:39:28.010 --> 00:39:34.400 it's Marcato. Pull a list of anyone that is an ideal customer. Whatever 531 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:41.210 that criteria is for you and that has recently been on your website. If you 532 00:39:41.210 --> 00:39:45.460 have a big enough list of people that have recently viewed a product specific 533 00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:51.030 page, I would start there. So people that maybe haven't requested a demo yet. 534 00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:56.420 But I've looked at your products and researched it, um, that are ideal 535 00:39:56.420 --> 00:39:59.880 customers. If you already have their information, I would start with that 536 00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:06.280 list, take that list and develop and ask. I would say, like start with a 537 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:11.200 piece of content that's really scrappy, Um, that you know you can produce and 538 00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:16.130 we all use Zoom now. So, you know, maybe it's a 15 minute zoom interview 539 00:40:16.710 --> 00:40:22.370 and name it something that would make this person feel important. Don't name 540 00:40:22.370 --> 00:40:26.170 it after your product. Name it something that the person that you're 541 00:40:26.170 --> 00:40:30.340 reaching out Teoh is gonna want to be a part of. Come up with a couple of 542 00:40:30.340 --> 00:40:35.060 bullet points on how long it's going to be, what it's about, why they should be 543 00:40:35.060 --> 00:40:40.910 a part of it and just send those emails out. Schedule those interviews produce, 544 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:48.230 let's say 10 short 5 to 8 minute videos. Put those out, promote them heavily. 545 00:40:48.810 --> 00:40:53.520 And then I think you'll be surprised some of those people since they if you 546 00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:56.490 can pull big enough list of people that have looked at your product in the past 547 00:40:56.490 --> 00:40:59.920 in your I seep, some of those people will probably come back without you 548 00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:05.160 even asking and and ask, um, toe, learn more about your product and the others 549 00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:09.080 you know, use something that they said to open a conversation about your 550 00:41:09.080 --> 00:41:12.970 product. The the you know it doesn't hurt to make the ask, especially if 551 00:41:12.970 --> 00:41:17.040 they like you on DNA. How they know who you are is a person. The worst thing 552 00:41:17.040 --> 00:41:22.470 they can say is no or not right now. But you know that's a lot better oven 553 00:41:22.470 --> 00:41:26.900 experience for them than you. Just having like a BDR or someone on your 554 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:31.690 sales team reach out cold to book a demo. I absolutely love that, Catherine. 555 00:41:31.690 --> 00:41:35.710 I've I've been told before that people make a drinking game out of how often I 556 00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:40.480 say I love it or love that on this podcast. But you know, today is just 557 00:41:40.490 --> 00:41:44.040 people are gonna be enjoying themselves because I I really do love what you're 558 00:41:44.040 --> 00:41:46.850 saying and the way that you broke it down. You know, I had kind of four 559 00:41:46.850 --> 00:41:50.590 steps from your E book playbook, but you really broke it down into seven. 560 00:41:50.590 --> 00:41:55.480 Here, pull the list of your I C p from your marketing automation, or CRM tool, 561 00:41:55.490 --> 00:42:00.270 and then kind of call that list based on website visitors, product page views 562 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:05.040 and no request a demo yet, like I love how tactical you're getting their 563 00:42:05.050 --> 00:42:10.570 invite them to a 15 minute zoom interview. I love number three like 564 00:42:10.570 --> 00:42:15.450 don't call it narrative science talks. Or, you know, the sweet fish interview 565 00:42:15.450 --> 00:42:20.610 Siri's like Name it about. Think about what is their role and what makes them 566 00:42:20.620 --> 00:42:23.790 a rock star, right? Like we have a customer who has a podcast called the 567 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:28.460 Innovative Agency. Whether that's a podcast or just a kind of low lift 568 00:42:28.470 --> 00:42:32.730 interview, Siri's doesn't matter. When agency owners are invited to be a guest 569 00:42:32.730 --> 00:42:36.260 on the innovative agency, they're like Heck Yeah, I'm innovative. Or at least 570 00:42:36.260 --> 00:42:39.880 I want to be innovative. Or at least I want to be known as being innovative. 571 00:42:39.890 --> 00:42:45.130 So step one, pull your list to just invite those folks. Number three. Make 572 00:42:45.130 --> 00:42:48.530 it all about them. Develops, um, recurring questions. I mean, you could 573 00:42:48.530 --> 00:42:52.770 come up with five questions to ask prospects. I mean, come on, we should 574 00:42:52.780 --> 00:42:57.880 We should be able to do that for just hit. Send and watch the reply rates, 575 00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:01.700 produce them and promote them. Steps five and six and then number seven. 576 00:43:01.710 --> 00:43:06.950 Think about what sort of triggers from that conversation makes sense to then 577 00:43:06.950 --> 00:43:10.080 ask a follow up question and tie it there. Don't just send everyone the 578 00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:13.560 same thing. Maybe you start with the template but customize it based on the 579 00:43:13.560 --> 00:43:18.850 triggers that you're looking for in the content that you created with them. Two 580 00:43:18.850 --> 00:43:22.210 things I'll mention in the show notes For someone who wants to go even deeper 581 00:43:22.210 --> 00:43:26.210 here. I interviewed Dylan. Hey, he's not a customer of ours, but he has a B 582 00:43:26.210 --> 00:43:29.570 two B podcast, and he's using content based networking to interview his 583 00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:34.580 prospects, and he talked specifically about how the questions he asked in his 584 00:43:34.590 --> 00:43:37.670 interview, especially the recurring once towards the end of the interview, 585 00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:41.320 not only create good pure content because their peers want to hear that 586 00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:45.800 from the guest, but it helps him toe Identify. Is this person in the market 587 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:49.440 for our service right now? So we'll link to that one in the show notes. And 588 00:43:49.450 --> 00:43:53.500 also we did a monthly customer mastermind call on this here it sweet 589 00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:58.300 fish a few months back where we talked about 12 specific tactics you can use 590 00:43:58.300 --> 00:44:02.590 to follow up with guests who are also prospects of your podcast or your 591 00:44:02.600 --> 00:44:06.910 interview. Siri's your linked in live Siri's or whatever it is so linked to 592 00:44:06.910 --> 00:44:10.310 both of those in the show, notes Catherine. As as we're talking about 593 00:44:10.310 --> 00:44:14.280 next steps. If someone listening to this is not yet your friend, what's the 594 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:17.890 best way for them to reach out and make you a new friend? Because I highly 595 00:44:17.890 --> 00:44:22.650 suggest that they do that? Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn Logan. I'll 596 00:44:22.650 --> 00:44:25.760 just send you my link to my LinkedIn if you want to put that in the show, notes 597 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:29.610 Aziz. Well, since I don't remember it off the top of my head, but connect 598 00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:32.230 with me on LinkedIn. I love connecting with new people, so that would be a 599 00:44:32.230 --> 00:44:37.470 great place. Yeah, that that probably be my number one. Make it easy. We'll 600 00:44:37.470 --> 00:44:40.810 put it in the show. Notes is always make it very easy for you to Tappan 601 00:44:40.790 --> 00:44:45.190 Connect with Catherine. Like I said, she has been her and the entire team. 602 00:44:45.190 --> 00:44:48.310 Cassidy and Anna and the rest of the team over at narrative science. They're 603 00:44:48.310 --> 00:44:51.710 just they're approaching marketing differently, and it's leading to 604 00:44:51.710 --> 00:44:55.640 results. And I love the way that you guys air not only using content based 605 00:44:55.640 --> 00:44:59.830 networking, obviously, we love that. But as a career salesperson myself, the 606 00:44:59.830 --> 00:45:04.990 way that you are looking to truly serve your sales team and get in the trenches 607 00:45:04.990 --> 00:45:08.770 with them and roll up your sleeves I think, is just an example that so many 608 00:45:08.770 --> 00:45:12.360 marketers can learn from. So, Catherine, I appreciate you sharing that story 609 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:16.430 today. I love seeing the smile on your face, talking about the 10 best sales 610 00:45:16.430 --> 00:45:20.440 meetings that I could generate for the sales team. Thank you so much for 611 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.980 making time for this episode today. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, thanks, 612 00:45:23.980 --> 00:45:29.900 Logan. This was a lot of fun. I appreciate getting to be on it. Hey, 613 00:45:29.900 --> 00:45:34.060 everybody, Logan with sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of B two b 614 00:45:34.060 --> 00:45:38.060 growth, you know that I'm one of the co host of the show, but you may not know 615 00:45:38.060 --> 00:45:42.200 that I also head up the sales team here. A sweet fish. So for those of you in 616 00:45:42.200 --> 00:45:46.160 sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made 617 00:45:46.160 --> 00:45:50.730 us insanely mawr efficient. Lately, our team has been using lead I Q for the 618 00:45:50.730 --> 00:45:55.140 past few months and what used to take us four hours gathering Contact data 619 00:45:55.150 --> 00:46:00.670 now takes us on Lee. One where 75% more efficient were able to move faster with 620 00:46:00.670 --> 00:46:04.900 outbound prospecting. And organizing our campaigns is so much easier than 621 00:46:04.900 --> 00:46:09.340 before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I Q. As well. You can 622 00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:15.500 check them out at lead. I q dot com That's l e a. D e que dot com 623 00:46:19.890 --> 00:46:23.520 One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of 624 00:46:23.520 --> 00:46:27.970 mouth works. It works really, really well, actually, So if you love this 625 00:46:27.970 --> 00:46:32.120 show, it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And if 626 00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:36.540 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend Meta I 627 00:46:36.540 --> 00:46:40.090 know I'll send you a copy of my book Content based networking. How to 628 00:46:40.100 --> 00:46:43.540 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell phone number is 629 00:46:43.540 --> 00:46:48.920 4074903328 Happy texting.