Transcript
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Yeah,
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welcome back to GDP Growth. I'm dan
Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and today
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I'm joined by Logan Mallory, who is the
VP of marketing at motive ah city Logan.
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How you doing today dan, I'm awesome.
Everything is good here in Utah sure
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appreciate being able to hang out with
you for a little bit. Absolutely for
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the audience. We're talking today about
five reasons why marketing up should be
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one of your first hires and I wanted to
talk to Logan about it specifically
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because he's gone through the pain of
not having that person before and has
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recently in the process of getting that
person on the team and there's a few
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reasons we talked to our pre interview
and all the different things we could
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go over in this call that that stood
out to me is I've been in that pain
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before and I wanted to flesh out some
of the reasons behind why that is why
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you would actually want to make this
person your first higher. Um I realized
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even in my past, that's been one of my
first hires before and I kind of caught
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me off guard to even think about it
that way because I think it's just it's
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uncommon, unfortunately uncommon. So I
wanted to talk to marketers today about
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that topic. How did this even occur to
you to begin with before we jump into
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the five reasons? How did this become a
topic for you? Yeah, for sure. So I've
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been in marketing for quite a while and
always have been in this digital world.
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Right? And so I think in traditional
marketing and certain it's past it
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wasn't as important. And I've worked
with marketing ops teams that are more
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of a burden or an obstacle. They're
kind of gatekeepers rather than
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partners. And I know how long that
makes the work take, right. The work
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takes longer. It doesn't move as fast
and it's painful. And then when you've
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worked with a really great marketing
ops team or a really great marketing
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ops leader you get the opposite
experience. And so kind of having the
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contrast of those throughout my career
throughout different roles and
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throughout my career I learned that a
great partner there um makes everything
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better. And so um I knew that the next
time I was building a team from scratch
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or or growing a team that that was
going to be one of the very first
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things that I that I focused on. Well
say I've outside his sweet fish.
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There's only one marketing team I belt
before and it was it ended up being a
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marketing office person I hired. That
was before I even understood what
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marketing ops was. I just I like almost
called the I. T. Part two because I
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didn't know what to call it, I was in a
beat, I was working in higher education
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and I didn't have the vocabulary for it.
I'm like well we're like we're running
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all the websites practically running
all the technology, the crm I'm even
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running the sales enablement, like all
the call center text, I'm like we're
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just I. T. Part two. Uh And so I think
but it becomes it's it's hard to set up,
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it takes a ton of time to get
everything done right. Um So I ended up
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becoming my first hire now I'm working
with a team of four and it's not
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somebody on my team and I'm filling it
I think dan in the you know when when I
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first started my career we kind of had
a marketing automation, you know
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specialists or marketing automation
managers and um they were kind of seen
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as their own entity but as the industry
has matured and you know your your
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hubspot or your marcato or your party
for instance has has become like the
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center of the marketing tech stack that
really enabled those automation people
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to move into that ops role and they're
fantastic at it. So I do think it has
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changed over the last few years where
used to start off in marketing
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automation and now that almost always
falls under ops as it should as it
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should. Yeah. I mean it started with
email marketing, right. And then those
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email marketing became drip sequences
and those drips sequences and
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statements in it and became more
sophisticated drip sequences. And then
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you started triggering text messages
and landing pages and you started doing
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weird things with the options around
your website and customizing. And
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before you know it you had these very
sophisticated campaigns that was way
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more than email. Way more than marking
the automation. It was like a whole
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system and into it was very just well I.
T. Part to what intricate intricate for
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sure. Technology heavy but not quite
email. Not quite I. P. Stuff you know I.
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P. Addresses and all this stuff I. T.
Has to deal with you know dealing with
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vectors, you're dealing with process
maps and all that kind of data
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databases of people and where they're
at in the customer journey and what
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they've experienced and where they came
from the works. It's a it's a never
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ending list for that crew. So let's
dive into some of the reasons why this
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is the right person to hire and the
benefits of it. You mentioned one was
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just getting better attribution. How is
it give you better attribution for your
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marketing and why is that important?
Yeah, for sure. So any any good
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marketer is running multiple campaigns
right? If you're only if you're only
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running one type of medium or one tool
and your that simplified then you are
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missing out on a lot of opportunities
for growth and expansion. But the more
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that you put into the system and the
larger your ecosystem is the more
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confusing the attribution gets right.
And I think in marketing we sometimes
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over we've made that way more complex.
We talk about, you know, you you curved
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attribution and w curve attribution or
first or last touch. And sometimes I
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think we just make that really complex.
The reality is you need to know that if
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you put a dollar in, where was where
was the person? And what were they
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experiencing when they raised their
hand? Right. If you can boil it down to
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that, then you can make some really
wise program decisions and a good
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marketing ops team. They can, you know,
their intricate in how they manage
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forms on websites. They think about the
tracking and the attribution from 3rd
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Party traffic. Um They, you know, they
think about how that carries into the
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systems, in which fields it populates
inside of the automation or the uh
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hubspot or marcato. And so keeping
track of that and knowing what's coming
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from where really does allow you to
make better decisions. You can you can
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look back and say we put an X. It led
to Y. And therefore we're going to put
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Z extra dollars into that program. Or
maybe it's not dollars, maybe its time
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and resources. It's it's humans focus
and even knowing that you're spending
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that in the right place makes all the
difference. I love how, like
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attribution is a really complex topic.
In fact, we're gonna do a deep dive in
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the future just on attribution alone
because it's worth, I can spend a whole
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month unpacking just that one topic I
find that a marketing office person is
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probably even better. Not even there's
like the top level marketing
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attribution right? Of like assessing
different channels and how they grew
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all up to our Oh I but I do find that
it's even technical to try to figure it
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out within a small ecosystem, right?
Adwords alone is a lot of set up and
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tracking just to make sure like even
within just the Adwords ecosystem of
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just cost per lead is set up correctly
so that you can measure how well
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Adwords is just even a generating leads,
let alone revenue. Right? There's a lot
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of technical setup and just setting up
all the different channels and making
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sure you can actually even tagged them
correctly right? You have things being
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piped in and things being piped out and
sometimes you want the data in one
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place and not in another. But but when
a good marketing ops team member and
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partner can focus on that and make it
clear where the traffic is coming from
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and think about google. Like you
mentioned, the intensity of individual
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platforms, think about your google
analytics set up. If you are making
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decisions based on that and things are
tagged incorrectly or events are firing
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at the wrong time or your goals aren't
set up right, then you're trying to
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make decisions with bad data and it's
not just about the data, it's about the
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thought process and the customer
journey. But if you don't have somebody
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paying attention to that that's skilled
and talented, then you are going to
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make the wrong investments. Eventually
it kind of leads into the second point
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you gave us. So if you hire a marketing
ops person really early, you have to do
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less rework. What are some of the
rework you would typically have to do
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if you didn't hire that person earlier?
Yeah, I think, I think when you are in
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an organization and you were trying to
be scrappy and most companies don't
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hire someone in marketing ops right
away, they'll hire somebody to create
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content. They'll hire somebody to run
adwords. Maybe you've got a web
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developer depending on your setup. But
when you when you don't have somebody
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from a marketing from a marketing
office perspective, Everyone's kind of
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hacking things together. There's this
scene and I talk about this story a lot
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in a different setting, but have you
ever seen Apollo 13 Dan. Of course. So
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remember in Apollo 13 where the
astronauts are in space and this
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Houston we have a problem. And then the
engineers, I can't remember if they
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were in florida Houston, but the
engineers at Nasa walk into the room
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and they go, all right, we got to
figure out how to get this square into
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this circle and this is what we can do
it with. And then they dump out the box
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of supplies onto the table. It's a
great scene, right? And I always talk
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about that from like the kind of people
I want to hire, people who are scrappy
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people who look around the room and
figure out what we have and make it
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work. And there's something I don't
know honourable about that, being able
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to figure out like how to solve
problems without every single tool or
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piece of marketing technology. But that
almost always means that there's
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inefficiencies, there's gaps, there's
things that take longer than they
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should there leads they get lost. And
so when I as a kind of high level
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marketing leader come in and try to
piece things together, I'm losing
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efficiency all over the place. I don't
have time to a b test every part of the
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nurture. I don't have time to make sure
we're not losing leads through a
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different, through a different lead
source. And so a marketing ops person,
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if they can come in and build that
intentionally, it means they don't have
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to rebuild what I or someone else
hacked together. And so it really does.
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It sets you off on a better foot
earlier rather than having to catch up.
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And that ketchup can take months or
years, right. If you bring somebody on
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and the infrastructure is all in place,
they could spend quarters learning
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what's they're coming up with a new
plan and implementing it rather than if
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you would've just had them start, they
could have done it right for you the
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first time, kind of like trading the
speed and scale now for later. Right,
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Well you might get ahead by three
months now, but that's gonna cost you a
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year and a half a rework later because
the ship is going to be bigger and it's
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harder to turn a big ship, right? So
it's kind of depends on where you want
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to go whenever you start up, has to
assess that differently. You know, our
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scale up, you have to kind of assess
like, I don't know, do we need that
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accelerated growth now or can we afford
to slow it down a little bit so they
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can grow faster later? Yeah, for sure.
And it's it's so easy to think like oh
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we'll solve that later and then you
don't write like you just you just
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leave it there and it sits in the
corner and um you continue to to hack
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your way through it. So a good
marketing ops leader and partner gets
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things set up right the first time and
then from there on out your your
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running at full speed rather than
limping along. Gosh, I feel like I've
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been on both sides, I've done things
right the first time I've been in other
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situations where I've literally
implemented one system and then someone
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took over implemented a different
system and then I had three systems to
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migrate from them and then it took to
all my little over two years in order
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to get it done. That was a lot of work
to get it done right. It's brutal,
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isn't it? All the systems that were
like, we have these three half
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implemented systems and this one well
and there's an emotional burden
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associated with that, right? Like when
you have to do manual work because your
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systems are bad. That's a really
frustrating hour or hour and a half of
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your day. You don't feel great doing
that work because it's not your best
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work, it's not efficient and so you're
not excited about it and why should you?
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So there's an emotional tax associated
with, with those with with the re work
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that needs to be done and the work
waiting to be done until the re work is
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finished. So that's talking about
rework which kind of leads into the
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next point of everything is just more
effective when you start right from the
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beginning. And it's kind of like of
course you don't have to do the rework
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so it's more effective. But what are
some of the efficiencies you gain when
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it's all set up right from the
beginning? I think I think where I
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would focus on the most here is
something that marketers need to do a
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better job of, we need to be more
revenue focused. So many of us are
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focused on how many pieces of content
we created in a quarter. The next event
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that we put on. Um you know, we focus
on these high level, I don't want to
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say vanity metrics but these high level
metrics that are good and we need them
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but they don't necessarily drive the
revenue that the sales team is trying
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to hit. And so one thing that I I hope
we all start to do better as marketing
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leaders is to coordinate and
collaborate with sales more than we
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have so often. That's a relationship
like filled with friction and anxiety
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and frustration. And we all know that
like death cycle where sales doesn't
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perform, they blame marketing.
Marketing says, well sales, you didn't
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do anything with what we sent you.
Right. And so I think the most, the
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place where a marketing ops team can
make marketers the most efficient is in
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tracking revenue. Right? And so one of
the things that a wonderful marketing
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ops leader that I worked with helped me
establish was basically a revenue
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forecast. And so we would look
historically at what our leads and
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opportunities would produce, how much
pipeline or closed one revenue they
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would produce. We'd track that over
time and then we would apply it to our
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our forecasted incoming leads for the
next month. So we take historical
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revenue and historical pipeline. We'd
apply it to next month's lead forecast
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and we would come up with a pipeline
forecast. So instead of just saying yes,
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we're going to run these programs and
we expect this many leads. We would go
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through and would literally say we
expect X leads from adwords and why
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leads from paid social and z leads from
this webinar and based off of those
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different lead sources, we could plan
on a B or C dollars worth of pipeline.
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And so what that did was it built
insane amounts of confidence from our
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sales counterparts. When we said this
is how much revenue we think we can get
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you to. We knew that within, you know,
90, accuracy, that's what we would get
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them to. And that's the perfect example
of how we're marketing. Ops Leader can
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00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:07.160
make you more efficient from the very
get go. Hi dan Sanchez here with a
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00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:11.850
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trans guide. It sounds like the dream
right. Being able to predict within
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that kind of accuracy. Yeah, easy to
say so hard to accomplish. But I think
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the magic behind the scenes And I think
one thing about that is oftentimes when
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we're less technical, we just try to
look at things through one lens. We say
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things like I'm going to bring in and
I'm making numbers up. I'm going to
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bring in 200 leads this month for the
sales team. What marketing ops can
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really help us to do is to be more
granular, Right? And to look at things
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that are more at a tighter focus. So
rather than focusing on our program in
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general, what will each lead source do
or what will a campaign provide? And
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when we break things down more granular,
Then we don't have to work on an
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average level. Right? We don't have to
say our average lead. Our average
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conversion rate is 25%. We can say our
average conversion rate for adwords is
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40. Our average conversion rate for a
webinar is five. Right? And so we can
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be more granular and therefore more
accurate. And I love that when a
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marketing, when a when a mops partner
gets that, it is just like clockwork.
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You can you can really work some magic
in any sized organization. one thing
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that you mentioned to me that really
stood out to me because it's something
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I'm like, you know what? That's right.
But I never really thought about this
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dynamic of a good marketing ops person
as you said it brings maturity to your
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whole team. Yeah. So in college
programs You can't keep up with
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marketing, right? So when you have
these college professors that have been
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that have been in academia for 20 years
and they're teaching about marketing,
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they haven't been in it recently enough
to teach about attribution or google
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analytics or U. T. M. S. Right? Like
like or a C. I. D. Coats right? Like
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they haven't been in it enough to teach
about those things. And so entry level
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marketing employees come in and they
have no clue what U. T. M. Under source.
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Underscore source equals is or
underscore campaign equals is like they
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don't know what that is. And so a
marketing ops partner that is that is
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seasoned, right? And I'm talking about
a leader not not someone who's on their
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first gig in their first six months in
it, but a marketing leader like that
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can teach the rest of your team how to
think about marketing from an analytics
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and a digital and a reporting stand
perspective. So I actually have a great
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his name is Reicher Rikers on my team
here at motive osce Itty and we've got
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a little bit of a younger team here
which is fantastic. They bring energy
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and new ideas and new perspectives. I
had Reicher take an entire section of
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our of our all hands meeting and teach
about you tms basically from one oh one
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because I knew they weren't getting it
in school. I could tell that they
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weren't learning about it in their
previous roles. But Ryker knows that
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stuff back and forth left and right,
right. And so he helped me mature the
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team and where before they weren't
thinking about attribution and tags and
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keeping track of their spend. Now we
make sure things go through Rikers
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filter and they understand why we're
doing that. It's not just an extra box,
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they see the value. So we have all
leveled up at our organization for
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having record on our team. So it's
essentially training your team and more
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of the technical side of marketing
because I mean, even if they are
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teaching good marketing, which I'd say
most colleges aren't even really
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teaching the good basics of mark, not
at all. How to write the poppy, how to
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find your right audience, how to how to
write good value propositions that's
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like mentioned value proposition, right.
Uh so they're not doing that, but then
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they're definitely not covering the
technical side which is like you teams
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highly technical and how it captures
those and how it loads into the google
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analytics and all that kind of stuff.
It almost essentially kind of builds a
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technical prowess of the team, which is
highly important for both the strategic
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and tactical execution of any modern
marketing. Right? Um, you say it goes
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beyond technical or is it mostly like a
technical maturity that it brings? I
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would say there's another side of that.
Oftentimes they help provide a better
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perspective of realities. Sometimes we
as marketers, we dream a lot and we
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think this would be fun and what if we
did this and because of their
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personality, marketing office person is
probably a little bit more analytical,
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a little bit more realistic, they're
aware of constraints. And so they
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provide some balance to a marketing
team instead of everybody kind of, you
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know, wanting to buy giant planking
boards, which I bought a giant plank
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aboard the other day, but instead of
everyone wanted to just have fun and
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make things awesome. They help you
think about like real constraints,
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which is important. And so, um I think
that balance absolutely matures a team
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and we think about that in different
ways throughout the organization
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broadly, we talk about diversity and
inclusion and the marketing ops person
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within the marketing team provides some
diversity of thought. So I hope that's
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not an insensitive way to frame that. I
don't I don't mean that that solves any,
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you know, diversity and inclusion
solutions. But having that person
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within the microcosm of a marketing
team make sure that you are thinking
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more than just the creative branding,
bright colour side of marketing makes
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so much sense. One of the reasons why I
like my marketing ops person in my last
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job was because he actually came from a
hard science background. He was a
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chemist and had done like post grad
work in chemistry. So he's like highly
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analytical and he had some programming
experience, he's highly technical,
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didn't know anything about marketing,
which was fine. I taught him all the
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basics and he knew and marketing took
over adwords and then are and Crm and
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they are all our websites help me code
a lot of fun things around the website.
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You know, it's funny you mentioned that
depth e brought on the technical
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analytical side and the stuff he could
do with Excel and just getting us to
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think at a different level and
analytically was unbelievable. Yeah. I
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kind of feel you when you talk about
like different level of thinking. Yeah,
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they do. I it's funny you say that one
of the organizations I worked for a few
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years ago um are the gentleman who ran
our marketing ops team had studied
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architecture in his uh in his for his
his undergraduate degree. So he he
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studied architecture, did an internship
and said, now this isn't really for me,
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and uh and and jumped into marketing
operations and he was incredible. The
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guy, the guy was a wizard and could do
things in in uh in minutes, that would
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take average teams months. So he was he
was great to work with. So maybe that's
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kind of a tip for anybody listening to
this. If you want to like bringing
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someone entry, looked at one of the
hard skills that could be engineering
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could be the hard sciences, anybody
who's really good at like physics or
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chemistry, those guys are just amazing.
Um But architecture, that's one, I
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didn't think that's a different one,
work out really well, have a different
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way of thinking that would probably
apply really well to uh to marketing.
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Ops of course, most markets don't have
a background in education, They didn't
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study marketing is their major motion.
A lot of people are marketing anyway.
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We jump over from some other world dan.
One other thing that frankly just came
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to me, I hadn't really thought about it
in our preparation discussions, but one
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other thing that marketing Ops leaders
do is they are an excellent external
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partner, right, meaning no one is
better equipped to go talk to your
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sales operations counterparts. Right?
And oftentimes if there's some
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technical technical knowledge that's
needed on the product side, your
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marketing Ops person can speak that
language and so they do mature the team
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in that they provide this kind of
technical resource that other parts of
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the entity can connect into. Whereas
love creative directors, love marketing
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managers like myself, but we're not
always technical and therefore that
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limits how we can interact with other
people. Think about if your Web deV
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team is hosted by the is housed within
the engineering department like
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Marketing Ops person can be way more
efficient as a translator and as a I'm
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going to say an ambassador than your
average marketing employee makes sense.
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They certainly interface better than
with all the other technical people
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around the work. And I'd say, yeah,
even your thin op team or whatever
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depending on what you're doing there
all okay to speak each other's
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languages a lot more easily. Exactly.
Exactly. One of the last things you
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mentioned around why you should hire a
marketing ops person pretty early was
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that it makes you look a lot better in
front of your executive team. Gosh,
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that's such a selfish answer, isn't it?
My goodness. Um listening to that back,
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I'm like that's that seems so selfish.
But let me explain that one, I'm about
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to go into a market with the executive
team tomorrow. I said on our executive
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team here at motor velocity once a
month or once a time period, each
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department does a deep dive, right? And
it's a little bit like a quarterly
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business review where we say, here's
the things that were amazing. Here's
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the things that are broken, here's what
we're working on. And I spent a full
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day with Reicher whose who runs my
marketing ops team side by side. And we
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went through reports and we went
through graphs and charts and analytics.
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We did some quantitative and then we
did some qualitative analysis where we
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dug into specific lead sources. We dug
into specific parts of the sales cycle.
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We dug into our technology and our tech
stack and we spent that time so that
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we'd be ready for this meeting. And
that doesn't sound like anything
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special.
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But Riker gave me a level of
understanding that I don't and can't
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have on my own right with all the
things that I'm managing budget, hiring,
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strategy, speaking engagements. I can't,
I can't be an expert on everything, but
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my marketing ops partner helps me to do
that and helps me to like understand
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what's important and what's noise. So
when I go into that executive meeting,
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I feel ultra confident, right? And I
feel confident because I can get up and
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speak to it. And I know that if for
some reason I can't, my partner can go
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a mile deep and a mile wide if he needs
to and in front of that executive team.
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So for me, I'm not alone, right? And
and again, that diversity of thought,
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that diversity of experience, that
technical knowledge when I'm when I'm
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in that meeting, I know that I can
count on him and have been able to on
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my on my marketing operations
counterparts in the past, I can count
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on them and therefore we as a team look
polished and prepared and knowledgeable
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because we are so maybe maybe the
reason that when you asked me that
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question, which we had talked about,
maybe the reason that felt
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uncomfortable is because I said, it
makes me look good in front of the
368
00:27:26.020 --> 00:27:30.620
executive team. And maybe the better
way to say that is makes the marketing
369
00:27:30.620 --> 00:27:35.620
team look better in front of the exact
it's selfish. Yes, it does make you
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00:27:35.630 --> 00:27:38.350
individually look good because you're
the leader of the team. And so yeah,
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there there's a lot of benefits to that.
But by looking, making the team in
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yourself look good in front of the
executive team, it gives you more
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ability to get buy in on other things
that could help the team needs more
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help with this needs budget for this.
The things they've been bugging you
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about, well now you're going to be able
to go get the resources that they've
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been asking you for, you're gonna be
able to hire that person which is a new
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00:27:59.060 --> 00:28:04.020
job creation, right? So yes, it's
selfish, but it's also, I mean if
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you're a good leader, it's it's for the
team. Sure. Yes, I had to do look good
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yourself to. It's not necessarily Yeah,
of course. That definitely helps one of
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balancing yourself with the team. One
of the Yeah, and we've got an awesome
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team over here. It's uh and not not a
sales pitch but motive velocity is all
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about peer to peer recognition. And so
we do our, we do a really good, I got
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my things matter shirt today on, in
fact we do a pretty good job of making
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sure everyone is appreciated and
recognized and I hope, I hope my team
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feels that they're awesome. One of one
of the things that just kind of
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triggered for me as you were talking
about that, is that a good marketing
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operations individual or team lead also
ought to have a really unbiased
388
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:50.670
perspective, right? Maybe they add some
neutrality to your conversation.
389
00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:54.230
Whereas you know, instead of looking at
everything as though it's perfect and
390
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shiny and exactly working exactly how
it should. Marketing operations can
391
00:28:59.130 --> 00:29:04.230
shed the accuracy light on that, right
and help determine what's right or
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what's wrong. In fact, I don't know if
I should say this on the podcast, but
393
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I'm going to like, we're going into
this executive meeting with a couple of
394
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things that haven't gone perfect. Like
there are some things that aren't
395
00:29:15.470 --> 00:29:19.840
polished, they're not great and we're
going in about those relatively
396
00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:23.550
blatantly. It's certainly not a
doomsday issue, but I think we're going
397
00:29:23.550 --> 00:29:28.000
in there trying to be honest and say
here's where we just killed it and
398
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.410
here's a couple things where we clearly
didn't do what we needed to do. So I
399
00:29:32.420 --> 00:29:36.870
appreciate that balanced perspective
and like being held accountable and and
400
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looking at things the right way. Just
not the way that makes us look good. I
401
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:46.130
do like how marketing ops mindset is a
little bit more data heavy, Right? It's
402
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like marketing is the balance between
the art and the science. I had one way
403
00:29:50.990 --> 00:29:53.650
I'm gonna, I'm gonna go towards the art
side because I think it's in the
404
00:29:53.650 --> 00:29:57.940
creative that winds, But ultimately I
like to have it all informed by good
405
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data. And it's nice to have that other
other person that pokes holes in your
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art and your thinking and your project.
Especially your projections and how
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00:30:05.550 --> 00:30:10.660
successful you think something might be
right. A good personality to have on
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00:30:10.660 --> 00:30:14.740
the team. Yeah. You and I are speaking
the same language on that one. So is
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there anything else our audience should
know about hiring that person? Maybe if
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00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:23.220
you're hiring that first person, where
would you find that person? What level
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00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:26.340
would you hire? Are you looking for a
marketing ops director as a first hire
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00:30:26.340 --> 00:30:31.930
or a marketing ops specialist? Yeah. So
what's it like? Think about, think
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00:30:31.930 --> 00:30:35.470
about what a marketing ops specialist
is. Right. Do you have enough
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00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:39.340
experience that? Are you there
interning or do you have enough
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00:30:39.340 --> 00:30:43.170
experience that you can that you can
actually contribute? So certainly
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that's a circumstantial one damn. Like
if you've got all the budget in the
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00:30:47.190 --> 00:30:51.840
world and all the flexibility, then go
hire the most seasoned person you can
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find. For me, I'm a huge user of linked
in. And so of course I posted the role
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00:30:57.710 --> 00:31:04.890
and um, and you know, had had people
applying to it and I also went out and
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00:31:04.890 --> 00:31:09.560
I found people that I that I liked and
thought could be good. And I really
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00:31:09.560 --> 00:31:14.890
tapped my network to see who would be
the most valuable asset in the
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00:31:14.890 --> 00:31:18.650
organization or in the, in the
community. You know, I think one of the
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00:31:18.650 --> 00:31:22.190
things Covid was kind of striking up
and when we made this current or excuse
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00:31:22.190 --> 00:31:26.840
me, it was, it was kind of in the
middle of it when we made the higher
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00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:30.990
here at motor velocity. What I would
say you do is you think about your
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00:31:30.990 --> 00:31:36.430
circumstances and then find the person
who has the experience to fill that out.
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00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.750
Do you want to be a marcato shop? Do
you want to be a hubspot shop? Is your
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00:31:39.750 --> 00:31:44.190
sales office counterpart strong? What's
your executive team is feeling towards
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00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:48.620
or understanding of marketing
operations? I think there's a lot that
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00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:52.170
goes into it. You're probably not
getting what you need if someone has
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00:31:52.170 --> 00:31:57.470
1-2 years of total experience, right?
Like they need more depth than that if
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00:31:57.470 --> 00:32:02.680
they're going to be your operations
leader. Um And and so again, that's
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00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:06.590
probably a pretty soft answer there,
but I would recommend you really think
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00:32:06.590 --> 00:32:10.560
about what your circumstances allow.
Absolutely. Well lets me know that I
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00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:14.320
probably don't want to intern setting
up my hope spot account. Probably
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00:32:14.330 --> 00:32:18.210
somebody with 4 to 5 years experience
at least. Right, Who was maybe done it
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00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:22.550
at least once. You might not be a good
place, a bad place to start spending on
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00:32:22.550 --> 00:32:26.620
your budget. Right. Of course. Exactly.
The budget, the more better you can
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00:32:26.620 --> 00:32:32.350
hire. One thing that I've noticed again
on linked in the operations community
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00:32:32.360 --> 00:32:38.170
is getting louder and bigger. There's
um, there's groups on, on linkedin
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00:32:38.170 --> 00:32:41.540
where you see them pretty consistently
talking about what they're up against
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00:32:41.540 --> 00:32:46.450
and um, they're, I think they're
connecting more and, um, communicating
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00:32:46.450 --> 00:32:50.590
jobs to each other. And so it's
definitely becoming more of a tight
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00:32:50.590 --> 00:32:55.990
knit community as the, as the
profession matures like this didn't
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00:32:55.990 --> 00:33:00.860
exist a decade ago, right? Like this
wasn't a thing in this format. And so
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00:33:00.870 --> 00:33:06.260
as, as the profession has a longer
tenure as there's more senior leaders
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00:33:06.260 --> 00:33:11.450
in the role, the communities are
formalizing and if I were, if I were
448
00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:15.600
making a higher like this, I would want
to be involved and listening to those
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00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:20.360
communities and making sure that
whoever I was bringing on was, you know,
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00:33:20.370 --> 00:33:24.120
well respected within those groups.
Trying to think of like if I were
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00:33:24.120 --> 00:33:28.010
hiring a marketing person, I'd probably
do this would be to be growth. But even
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00:33:28.010 --> 00:33:30.910
if I didn't have a marketing facing
organization like Sweet fish, I'd
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00:33:30.910 --> 00:33:33.670
probably start my own marketing podcast
and just interviewed them all and then
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00:33:33.670 --> 00:33:38.210
ask you want a job? All right. Do you
want to do you want to work here?
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00:33:38.230 --> 00:33:43.840
Exactly? How is your current job? It's
a good not so good. It's not good
456
00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:50.860
enough man. Almost like pre interviews.
Right. Yeah. I like the way you think I
457
00:33:50.860 --> 00:33:55.190
like the way you think we kind of use
the podcast for us. It's a way to kind
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00:33:55.190 --> 00:33:59.010
of get to know anybody and everybody
and that's how we roll. Yeah, we all we
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00:33:59.010 --> 00:34:02.890
all like to be heard. So is there
anything else the audience should know
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00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:07.290
about hiring a marketing Ops person
early that you think would be helpful?
461
00:34:07.300 --> 00:34:11.940
Um I the only thing that I would say is
to add a little bit of counterbalance,
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00:34:11.949 --> 00:34:16.429
meaning I've seen that work
successfully and I know the value of
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00:34:16.429 --> 00:34:21.350
that, your organization's needs will be
different. Maybe you don't have a brand
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00:34:21.350 --> 00:34:27.489
established at all and or maybe you
don't have a single ounce of content.
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00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:31.630
Right? If you bring on a marketing Ops
person and you don't have any ads to
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00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:37.690
run or any content to promote or any
social presence, then the marketing ops
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00:34:37.690 --> 00:34:43.380
person can't operate an empty pipeline.
Right? So you should think about your
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00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:48.120
skill set. I'm a very demand focused
individual. And so when I get into an
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00:34:48.120 --> 00:34:53.159
organization, I immediately think, how
can I fill these pipes? If you don't
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00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:57.139
have full pipes, then the marketing ops
person will be twiddling their thumbs
471
00:34:57.139 --> 00:35:01.860
for a while. And so when we say they
are the first person, we maybe we mean
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00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:05.810
there the second or the third person,
right? But if you're hiring a marketing,
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00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:11.340
if your if your marketing operations
role Is 30 headcount in, you're making
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00:35:11.340 --> 00:35:16.160
the wrong choice. So not the first
person, but one of the first people,
475
00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:19.760
you won't hire the mansion or a really
good content marketer first or
476
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:24.190
something like that. You got it on top
of already having a q earlier good
477
00:35:24.190 --> 00:35:27.330
sales cycle and that's going, you have
product market fit and you're scaling
478
00:35:27.330 --> 00:35:32.180
now. Exactly. You got it, yep, that's a
good clarification. So I had that in my
479
00:35:32.180 --> 00:35:35.470
head, but I'm like, I'm going to the
audience knows now. Yeah, absolutely
480
00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:40.300
Logan, thank you so much for joining me
on the show today, where can people go
481
00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:46.630
to learn more about you and metadata?
Sorry, not metadata, motive velocity,
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00:35:46.640 --> 00:35:51.770
metadata sounds like a nice company too.
So I'm huge on spending time on
483
00:35:51.770 --> 00:35:56.320
linkedin, I love spending that time
there, I'm really easy to find under
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00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:00.740
Logan. Mallory motive. Ah City is a
wonderful company. We focus on making
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00:36:00.740 --> 00:36:05.610
people happier at work, we focus on
peer to peer recognition and helping
486
00:36:05.620 --> 00:36:10.220
managers be better leaders. If you're
trying to make your culture great or if
487
00:36:10.220 --> 00:36:14.520
you're trying to figure out how to
connect your teams in a post Covid
488
00:36:14.520 --> 00:36:18.090
world where they're not in the office
every day, spend a couple minutes with
489
00:36:18.090 --> 00:36:22.580
us and we'll show you some great
solutions and it's motive. Ah city dot
490
00:36:22.580 --> 00:36:26.700
com but again, find find me on linkedin
and reach out and I'll get you in the
491
00:36:26.700 --> 00:36:30.700
right place. Fantastic. Again, thanks
for joining me on GDP growth. Thanks
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00:36:30.700 --> 00:36:31.550
dan, appreciate you
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00:36:34.030 --> 00:36:38.190
at Sweet Fish. We're on a mission to
create the most helpful content on the
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00:36:38.190 --> 00:36:42.770
internet for every job function and
industry on the planet for the B two B
495
00:36:42.770 --> 00:36:46.810
marketing industry. This show is how
we're executing on that mission. If you
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00:36:46.810 --> 00:36:50.280
know a marketing leader, that would be
an awesome guest for this podcast.
497
00:36:50.290 --> 00:36:53.830
Shoot me a text message. Don't call me
because I don't answer unknown numbers,
498
00:36:53.840 --> 00:37:00.340
but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8.
Just shoot me their name may be a link
499
00:37:00.340 --> 00:37:04.280
to their linkedin profile and I'd love
to check them out to see if we can get
500
00:37:04.290 --> 00:37:10.150
them on the show. Excite Yeah.