3 Ways This B2B Marketing Team Pivoted During the Pandemic

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:09.000 welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweet fish media. I'm 2 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.960 joined today by an Guerini. She's the VP of marketing and partnerships over 3 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.020 at Affinity. And how's it going today? It is going well, Logan. Thanks so much 4 00:00:17.020 --> 00:00:22.350 for having me. Absolutely. And can you recall back to a time when you had an a 5 00:00:22.350 --> 00:00:28.270 o. L screen name, and if so, what was that screen name? Oh, a o l screen name. 6 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:32.920 I think it was like Ruby Ruby 16 or something. And that was like my soccer 7 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:38.610 jersey. I do remember having one that does age me, doesn't it? I can't 8 00:00:38.610 --> 00:00:42.620 remember my a o l screen name, but MSN Messenger was right up there. I can 9 00:00:42.620 --> 00:00:46.790 remember a first. My first few there that were, I think, tied to a few 10 00:00:46.790 --> 00:00:51.280 baseball players I loved at that point. So anyhow, I could still remember my 11 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.660 best friend's screen names as well. It's so funny how that stuff just 12 00:00:54.660 --> 00:00:59.080 sticks. Yeah, I love it. I love it Well. And today we're gonna be talking about 13 00:00:59.080 --> 00:01:04.360 kind of the topic of 2020 how your marketing team has pivoted in a few key 14 00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:08.480 ways. we're gonna talk about how you guys changed some of the measurements 15 00:01:08.490 --> 00:01:12.900 that you look at regularly as a marketing team. How your baby emotions 16 00:01:12.910 --> 00:01:17.480 shifted a little bit. And then how you guys have adapted as remote team. So 17 00:01:17.490 --> 00:01:20.940 give us a little bit of context as to what you and the affinity team are up 18 00:01:20.940 --> 00:01:24.970 to these days. Yes, so really, what affinity is for a relationship 19 00:01:24.970 --> 00:01:29.350 intelligence platform? And what makes the company's special is that we 20 00:01:29.350 --> 00:01:32.890 realize a couple years back that there's this treasure trove of data 21 00:01:32.890 --> 00:01:36.810 that sits under every organization and thats communications data. And so he 22 00:01:36.810 --> 00:01:41.540 figured out how to structure, cultivate Augmon and enrich using this 23 00:01:41.540 --> 00:01:47.980 communications data. And what becomes really interesting is coming into the 24 00:01:47.980 --> 00:01:52.140 pandemic, and especially in this, You know, all of a sudden we were a company 25 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:57.470 that was we had a main office in San Francisco, had just acquired a company 26 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:03.810 in Toronto and the pandemic hit, and we just like most companies, had to figure 27 00:02:03.810 --> 00:02:08.039 out how to be remote pretty much overnight. And so, just in from a 28 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.810 management perspective that changed a lot and also dealing with how do you 29 00:02:12.810 --> 00:02:17.120 deal with a lot of high touch customers. We have cater Teoh a number of the 30 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:21.800 financial services, uh, spaces, such a zvehr capital, private equity, 31 00:02:21.810 --> 00:02:26.310 investment banks. And yeah, there's a lot of high touch relationships that we 32 00:02:26.310 --> 00:02:30.480 have to keep sound. And yeah, how you do that in becoming a fully remote 33 00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:34.610 company overnight, as has definitely been a challenge. Yeah, absolutely. So 34 00:02:34.610 --> 00:02:39.160 I think, just for context, you know, there are some B two B brands that are 35 00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:44.330 seeing phenomenally mawr demand for what they do because of the realities 36 00:02:44.330 --> 00:02:48.700 of co vid. You know, like Zoom is probably the obvious one. There's a 37 00:02:48.710 --> 00:02:53.060 company out here. This is more of a B two C example where I'm at in Colorado, 38 00:02:53.060 --> 00:02:55.880 I think they're based out of like Lewisville or one of those Denver 39 00:02:55.880 --> 00:03:01.200 suburbs between Denver and Boulder that manufacturers external home offices 40 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:04.960 like to put like a work shed in your backyard. And their business was like 41 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:09.710 near bankrupt, and then now is is booming. When you guys went into kind 42 00:03:09.710 --> 00:03:14.440 of the early days of the pandemic, was it clear and obvious to you guys? As 43 00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:18.310 far as what sort of impact cove it was going to happen. I guess that's 44 00:03:18.310 --> 00:03:22.260 probably a loaded question, but just curious the evolution. Their asses 45 00:03:22.260 --> 00:03:27.570 faras your go to market. That will kind of frame how we talk about what shifted 46 00:03:27.570 --> 00:03:33.890 specifically with measurement with a B M and with working remotely. Yes, So 47 00:03:33.890 --> 00:03:38.120 similar to a lot of companies when the pandemic hit, everything kind of 48 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:44.140 screeched to a whole. And so especially being a B two B SAS player, everything 49 00:03:44.140 --> 00:03:49.150 just really stopped for about two weeks. So that has a company. We we really 50 00:03:49.150 --> 00:03:53.680 weren't sure. I wish to say that we we knew it was gonna happen, but we did 51 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.980 not have that magic, you know, the magic eight ball that could tell us 52 00:03:56.980 --> 00:04:01.250 what direction things were headed. So, yeah, we were pretty nervous like that. 53 00:04:01.250 --> 00:04:04.400 There was gonna be some major pause. We didn't know what was going to go what 54 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:10.130 happened in the economy this summer. And with that, we needed to kind of 55 00:04:10.130 --> 00:04:13.910 take a pause and a step back to see, you know, how do we reposition 56 00:04:13.910 --> 00:04:18.120 ourselves and luckily for us, because, you know, in the relationship 57 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:23.100 intelligence space, we really are a full functioning system of record crm 58 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:28.920 for the private or for the financial sector. And with that, what we found is 59 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:33.710 collaboration and any collaboration tools we're gonna become more needed 60 00:04:33.710 --> 00:04:38.180 than they were previously because everyone's now all of a sudden figuring 61 00:04:38.180 --> 00:04:42.480 out how to work from home. So, yeah, in that first phase, we were like many 62 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.580 other companies, we had no idea what was gonna happen if budgets were going 63 00:04:45.580 --> 00:04:51.040 to get slashed. And this summer we were It was fortuitous that things actually 64 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.740 turned out really in our favor as more and more firms decided. Okay, well, we 65 00:04:55.740 --> 00:05:00.850 need products like this to stay on the same page and to continue to move fast 66 00:05:00.850 --> 00:05:06.290 without getting left behind. So, yeah, that that was really our experience. 67 00:05:06.290 --> 00:05:09.530 And we were definitely fortunate and that we had already built this 68 00:05:09.530 --> 00:05:13.600 wonderful product that was being used in the industry and we weren't on the 69 00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:17.830 verge of bankruptcy. We're already in a good place, but yeah, those first few 70 00:05:17.830 --> 00:05:22.610 weeks we're challenging for just about everyone. But zoom, I think maybe slack 71 00:05:22.610 --> 00:05:28.840 as well. Yeah, Yeah, Exactly. I mean, we were looking at hey, when economic 72 00:05:28.840 --> 00:05:33.680 times get tough, marketing budgets get cut, and we sell to marketers with our 73 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:37.310 podcasting service. Thankfully, we saw, you know, a lot of people coming and 74 00:05:37.310 --> 00:05:40.820 saying, Hey, can you help us record and produce our podcast for our brand 75 00:05:40.820 --> 00:05:44.310 remotely? And we're like, Uh, yeah, that's pretty much what we do. Anyway, 76 00:05:44.320 --> 00:05:48.770 most of our customers air already kind of working with that m o even pre Cove 77 00:05:48.770 --> 00:05:52.110 it. But anyhow, so that's kind of the context of what you guys were going 78 00:05:52.110 --> 00:05:56.810 through, how things were shifting externally and you know your experience 79 00:05:56.810 --> 00:06:01.910 there. So let's talk a little bit about measurement. How did KP eyes that you 80 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:06.660 guys were reviewing regularly with your executive leadership team? How did 81 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:10.940 those change? And then I think we can also talk about the frequency, how you 82 00:06:10.940 --> 00:06:14.940 looked at those who was involved. But let's start with, you know, we were 83 00:06:14.940 --> 00:06:18.270 looking at this, and then it kind of got replaced with this, or we added 84 00:06:18.270 --> 00:06:22.040 these different measurements that we're looking at on a regular basis. What 85 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:27.320 changed there for you guys am Yeah, it's a great question. And so for us, 86 00:06:27.330 --> 00:06:31.500 you know, it's a marketing or guy firmly, you know, believe that you know 87 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:37.380 B two B marketing. We now, as you know, we have to look farther down the funnel 88 00:06:37.390 --> 00:06:41.270 than just, you know, the tip of the spear and leads of what marketers did 89 00:06:41.270 --> 00:06:46.430 in the past. So with that in the past, we were always looking at both the 90 00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:51.050 amount of quality meetings were able to drive about a qualified pipeline. What 91 00:06:51.060 --> 00:06:55.440 actual revenue is marketing, driving through, inbound through referrals 92 00:06:55.440 --> 00:07:01.380 through other outbound efforts, Having managed the BDR s on our team as well. 93 00:07:01.390 --> 00:07:06.440 And then all of a sudden, when this hit, we had to really rethink some of these 94 00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:11.660 things and not only keep track of those, but we needed an earlier indicating. 95 00:07:11.670 --> 00:07:17.230 And so we started looking at everything from click through rates on our best 96 00:07:17.230 --> 00:07:22.120 performing campaigns, surfacing all that we utilize looker, which is really 97 00:07:22.130 --> 00:07:26.490 fantastic. Tool will be able to visualize all this data and be able to 98 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:30.710 share it with leadership team. So a lot of our meetings we're looking at these 99 00:07:30.710 --> 00:07:34.200 leading indicators and creating leading indicator dashboard so that we could 100 00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:38.350 have a pulse on exactly what's happening and be a step ahead of the 101 00:07:38.350 --> 00:07:44.080 curve in case similar to you. We didn't know, in the financial service industry, 102 00:07:44.090 --> 00:07:48.130 VCs we're not gonna be able to raise funds or private equity firms wouldn't 103 00:07:48.130 --> 00:07:52.940 raise their next fund, and therefore maybe they would cut back on operation 104 00:07:52.950 --> 00:07:57.360 costs. So those are the things that we were trying to keep a pulse on. But it 105 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.210 was interesting because all of a sudden we had to surface all this really, 106 00:08:01.210 --> 00:08:05.380 really top of the funnel data and make sure that we had a pulse and 107 00:08:05.380 --> 00:08:11.120 understanding of any blips in the radar. So we knew if there was gonna be some 108 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:14.980 some issues happening, and as I mentioned before, that's when we 109 00:08:14.980 --> 00:08:19.380 started to see Whoa that, you know, after that first, I'd say two weeks to 110 00:08:19.380 --> 00:08:23.650 a month of really, like, bumpy roads where things were going really well, 111 00:08:23.650 --> 00:08:27.780 then really terribly than really well in the market. Then all of a sudden, we 112 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:33.480 were able to see like some really interesting and optimistic leading 113 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:37.590 indicators, and that enabled us to really double down quickly. What were 114 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:41.870 some of those leading indicators that hoped you guys realize where to double 115 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:45.930 down? And did you have to make any changes to your tech stack or your 116 00:08:45.930 --> 00:08:50.470 approach your dashboards in order to easily get that data at your fingertips. 117 00:08:50.500 --> 00:08:54.520 Yeah, absolutely. Getting those leading indicators into a tools such as looker 118 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:59.920 or whatever your team uses was imperative so that we could always have 119 00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:04.350 that comparison and not have toe constantly. Rely on, you know, demand 120 00:09:04.350 --> 00:09:09.360 Jin manager to go pull it in the system. It just removes some of that human air 121 00:09:09.370 --> 00:09:14.090 element as well, and anyone can look at it at any time. It always helps, as any 122 00:09:14.090 --> 00:09:17.850 marketer loves toe have the voice over because there's so many nuances in 123 00:09:17.850 --> 00:09:21.210 marketing campaigns. And looking at something like a click through rate 124 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:25.370 doesn't necessarily mean that much to a VP of product if they don't understand 125 00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:30.110 the campaigns it's associated with. But regardless, having that information 126 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:34.680 service, we also look a you know, our CPL. Our cost per lead over these 127 00:09:34.680 --> 00:09:39.500 various channels and our cost per meeting. And so having that 128 00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:44.400 understanding of okay, here's where we're able to drive quality. Here's 129 00:09:44.400 --> 00:09:48.420 where those costs have come down dramatically, and this was, you know, 130 00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:52.850 interesting from marketers because ah, lot of people pulled their money out 131 00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:57.590 because a lot of people were worried about what was gonna happen like were 132 00:09:57.590 --> 00:10:01.270 they not gonna be able to raise a round of funding, were they're gonna have to 133 00:10:01.270 --> 00:10:05.960 go bootstrap for a while or focus more on profitability. We were in a really 134 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:11.930 good place where we had the ability Thio continue to push marketing out and 135 00:10:11.930 --> 00:10:15.830 kind of read through some of those bumps. And because of that, some of our 136 00:10:15.830 --> 00:10:20.950 strongest court our strongest months. We're in June and July when a lot of 137 00:10:20.950 --> 00:10:25.390 marketers were retracting on their budgets. So because we had those top of 138 00:10:25.390 --> 00:10:30.110 the funnel metrics and we were really honed in on them, we had the ability 139 00:10:30.110 --> 00:10:35.060 Thio, you know, easily shift into another gear and take full advantage of 140 00:10:35.060 --> 00:10:38.790 the fact that some people were a little worried and had to pull back. Yeah, 141 00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:41.730 yeah, when there's decreased competition there and you're able to 142 00:10:41.730 --> 00:10:46.460 still go there than those cost per your cost per lead your cost per meetings 143 00:10:46.470 --> 00:10:50.250 going down because you're keeping your your spend the same and talk a little 144 00:10:50.250 --> 00:10:54.770 bit about you mentioned kind of explaining some of the KP eyes to your 145 00:10:54.770 --> 00:10:59.360 VP of product and other leaders on your team did the frequency with which you 146 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:02.990 guys were looking at these dashboards and the team members that you are 147 00:11:02.990 --> 00:11:07.790 pulling in toe. Look at them together outside of marketing. Did that change 148 00:11:07.790 --> 00:11:11.760 for you guys? Or where those parts kind of the same through the pandemic and 149 00:11:11.760 --> 00:11:15.610 through the shift? Yeah, I think I think it's interesting because I think 150 00:11:15.610 --> 00:11:19.680 most marketers, especially B two b marketers, But it's, you know, data 151 00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:24.720 could be the angel or the devil. You know, if people who love just purely 152 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:29.920 looking at data, you can easily come up with false negatives or positives. If 153 00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:34.420 you don't fully understand the context and the most amazing marketers, they're 154 00:11:34.420 --> 00:11:38.930 the ones that understand context, understand all the bits and pieces as 155 00:11:38.930 --> 00:11:44.020 to what the data saying, Because again, if you just surface everything without 156 00:11:44.020 --> 00:11:48.240 narrative, yeah, you might have ah, you know, a founder of VP of product or 157 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.950 someone who's used to leveraging data in a different capacity, make 158 00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:57.830 assumptions on that and and move in the wrong direction. So that was the first 159 00:11:57.830 --> 00:12:02.770 piece. And as for frequency, we did increase just the times, especially for 160 00:12:02.770 --> 00:12:07.580 an executive team just meeting more frequently, weaning weekly and walking 161 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:11.690 through and talking through these data points together. So we all had a good 162 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:15.850 understanding of what's happening, where we're seeing positive outcomes 163 00:12:15.850 --> 00:12:20.150 where there might be some potential threats and that really enabled us to 164 00:12:20.150 --> 00:12:25.590 move together faster, which is really the key at any startup. If you're 165 00:12:25.590 --> 00:12:28.820 getting value from this podcast, you are absolutely going toe Love, our 166 00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:32.570 weekly newsletter. In each email, I share something that you can do toe 167 00:12:32.570 --> 00:12:36.880 love your team well, toe, hone your craft, the craft of marketing and to 168 00:12:36.880 --> 00:12:40.600 grow your leadership. Plus, there's a super funny video at the top of the 169 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.910 landing page whenever you go to sign up for the newsletter. So go to sweet Fish 170 00:12:43.910 --> 00:12:50.810 media dot com slash newsletter and sign up today. Yeah, absolutely. I wanna 171 00:12:50.810 --> 00:12:54.790 make sure we have time to talk about how a B M shifted for you guys. 172 00:12:54.790 --> 00:12:58.440 Especially direct mail is that's been, you know, a challenge for a lot of 173 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:02.240 marketing teams to try and figure out right now as well as working remotely. 174 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.470 But you touched on something there that I know is a point of passion for you, 175 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:11.370 where marketers can try and seek to be overly data driven. I'm curious if, 176 00:13:11.380 --> 00:13:16.330 from March to now early November is we're recording this. Was there a time 177 00:13:16.330 --> 00:13:20.710 when you were kind of explaining the data or telling a story of providing 178 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:24.530 some context to the rest of your leadership team that you think other 179 00:13:24.530 --> 00:13:29.250 marketing leaders could learn from? Just to give kind of an example of that, 180 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:34.240 not just sharing the data and saying here it is. But doing our part is 181 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:39.000 marketers to tell the story of the data that allows for that unlocking the 182 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:44.010 understanding from the other functions and the rest of leadership team. Yeah, 183 00:13:44.020 --> 00:13:48.470 absolutely, I think, as marketers, it's always our job to also market what 184 00:13:48.470 --> 00:13:52.720 marketing is doing to the rest of the York. Because again, you can look at KP 185 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:57.500 eyes, whether they're from an email campaign ad campaign, whatever or a B M 186 00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:02.620 campaign, whatever you're doing and make easy assumptions. And, you know, 187 00:14:02.620 --> 00:14:08.570 from a marketing perspective, I did email marketing for six or seven years. 188 00:14:08.640 --> 00:14:13.210 As you know, my career grew, and it's ingrained in my head. Well, this is 189 00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:16.090 what the open rates telling us this is what the you know, the click through 190 00:14:16.090 --> 00:14:20.030 rates telling us, Here's what the bounce rates telling us. And I think 191 00:14:20.030 --> 00:14:23.390 one of the important things is that we also have to describe that to the rest 192 00:14:23.390 --> 00:14:27.940 of the team. So even simple things, like after we send out our, you know, 193 00:14:27.950 --> 00:14:33.090 regular product monthly product emails, not only just listing the KP eyes for 194 00:14:33.090 --> 00:14:37.410 the team but also explaining what these mean so that they could have a better 195 00:14:37.410 --> 00:14:41.090 translation and the narrative around. What is this telling us about our 196 00:14:41.090 --> 00:14:44.910 market? What's it telling us about our customers? And then we can all together 197 00:14:44.910 --> 00:14:48.950 make make assumptions because that's a lot of what they are in crazy times 198 00:14:49.140 --> 00:14:54.080 with our next move. And so, yes, so I think that that's really important that 199 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.900 sometimes, you know, I'll admit to having done it myself. You just get 200 00:14:57.900 --> 00:15:01.100 kind of what everyone knows, what a click to open rate is and why it 201 00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:04.910 matters. And you know what that's actually telling us about the content 202 00:15:04.910 --> 00:15:08.300 we're providing. So that's a really good point. We were just talking about 203 00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:12.140 this internally the other day, and it's the curse of knowledge. I've heard 204 00:15:12.140 --> 00:15:16.270 Sandra battery over at Terminus. Talk about this a ton that the more you know 205 00:15:16.270 --> 00:15:20.720 something, the more that you kind of lose sight of what other people who 206 00:15:20.730 --> 00:15:23.820 aren't a specialist in whatever role that could be product that could be 207 00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:28.050 marketing that could be sales. Whatever the case is, you kind of forget where 208 00:15:28.050 --> 00:15:31.770 you started and thus you just kind of throw out things and you forget to put 209 00:15:31.770 --> 00:15:35.840 them in context. So I think just that remembering that, Hey, when you read a 210 00:15:35.850 --> 00:15:39.570 a stat taking a second, even if you're like, Hey, if I've said this before, 211 00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:43.320 just stop me. But this is what this is telling us. Everybody good with that, 212 00:15:43.330 --> 00:15:47.290 right? And it's only like 60 seconds more of that explanation. But it can 213 00:15:47.300 --> 00:15:51.690 change the game in those strategic conversations that lead you to like you 214 00:15:51.690 --> 00:15:56.220 said your your assumptions or your best guesses about what's coming next. Yeah, 215 00:15:56.220 --> 00:16:00.410 it's just really quickly what was interesting. Thio. We just lead. We 216 00:16:00.410 --> 00:16:05.380 hired six new people started on Monday, and so we did it, you know, just a 217 00:16:05.390 --> 00:16:09.310 affinity 101 to teach them about some of the different functions within the 218 00:16:09.310 --> 00:16:13.570 company. And also not only the different roles, but also some of our 219 00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:17.640 markets. And I've had to catch myself through the years, especially because 220 00:16:17.640 --> 00:16:21.680 I've experienced it from the other side where it is so easy. And I know 221 00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:26.760 syndrome does a great job of talking about this to of just to rattle off all 222 00:16:26.760 --> 00:16:31.390 the SAS in B two b acronyms that we know and love and you know it's our 223 00:16:31.390 --> 00:16:36.850 Bible, But you can hire really smart people who might not just, you know, 224 00:16:36.850 --> 00:16:41.840 have memorized and lived and breathed by R I c p r you know, we could The 225 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:47.250 list goes on and on. And so, yeah, it's really important as leaders that we 226 00:16:47.260 --> 00:16:51.550 take a pause, especially to make sure that those those acronyms are actually 227 00:16:51.550 --> 00:16:56.250 registering and define them for people so they can be part of their lexicon as 228 00:16:56.250 --> 00:17:00.400 well. But for right now, it is something that I always wanna be 229 00:17:00.400 --> 00:17:05.040 cognizant of, that because it can, you can you can make turn someone into an 230 00:17:05.040 --> 00:17:09.640 outsider and feel like, What the heck are these people talking about it? I 231 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.380 just they just labeled off like you put them in a position of should I know 232 00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:16.430 that I'm gonna be stupid if I'm the person that's like, Wait, what does 233 00:17:16.430 --> 00:17:21.140 that acronym? And so that's a really good point explaining marketing to the 234 00:17:21.140 --> 00:17:24.770 rest of the leadership team. But also, when you're bringing in really smart 235 00:17:24.770 --> 00:17:28.410 marketers who might come from, you know, kind of a different subset of marketing 236 00:17:28.410 --> 00:17:32.680 or a different industry. And it's a little bit different within our B two b 237 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:36.380 SAS marketing bubble, right? And we're going to remember that, Yeah, it's also 238 00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:41.130 the engineers or the CSM s or whatnot and making sure that they also 239 00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:46.640 understand and I think, is marketers. We become. So the persona is so 240 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.660 important to everything that we do all of our different personas that 241 00:17:50.660 --> 00:17:55.350 sometimes that explanation of, you know, the acronyms that our personas, such as 242 00:17:55.350 --> 00:17:59.710 private equity or in venture capital, live and breathe by. And so you add 243 00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:03.150 those in, and all of a sudden it becomes like alphabet soup that you're 244 00:18:03.150 --> 00:18:07.930 talking and you lose half of your new teammates doing exactly what you said. 245 00:18:07.930 --> 00:18:13.500 Worried like, who should I know? What You know what dry powder is? Well, 246 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:17.810 probably not if you haven't worked in in this space, so yeah, and I think 247 00:18:17.810 --> 00:18:20.770 that that's just so important. And as you know, this goes back to you as 248 00:18:20.770 --> 00:18:24.700 we're talking about building remote teams, it's a lot harder for someone to 249 00:18:24.700 --> 00:18:29.340 tap you on the shoulder or tap someone on the shoulder and ask them, Hey, what 250 00:18:29.340 --> 00:18:33.810 were they talking about when they use this term? So we have to be a little 251 00:18:33.810 --> 00:18:38.530 more cognizant than than typical of making sure that everyone's aware what 252 00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:42.800 we're talking about. So we're not just talking to talk. Yeah, absolutely. 253 00:18:42.810 --> 00:18:46.640 We've talked about that So much is, ah, fully remote team here in sweet fish. 254 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:52.030 For for five years now, we've really recognized that you you have toe over 255 00:18:52.040 --> 00:18:56.420 communicate, and that's not just from a leadership level that's horizontally. 256 00:18:56.420 --> 00:19:01.210 It's it's all over the place because those sort of Hey, you can't ask. That 257 00:19:01.210 --> 00:19:03.830 question is you're leaving the conference room because you know the 258 00:19:03.830 --> 00:19:07.770 meanings over Zoom gets killed. Right? And unless you go over to slack and you 259 00:19:07.770 --> 00:19:11.200 ask that person but wait, should I ask them or should I should have called 260 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.490 them? You know, there's just a few more challenges there, so let's actually 261 00:19:14.490 --> 00:19:18.320 jump into that Since We're kind of touching on the remote work environment 262 00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:22.290 specifically for your marketing team and what have been some of the biggest 263 00:19:22.290 --> 00:19:26.400 challenges and what have been some of the creative solutions or surprises for 264 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.100 you guys as you made that big pivot along with everybody else this year. 265 00:19:30.110 --> 00:19:35.280 Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the big challenges for us similar to most 266 00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:39.690 marketers, especially in the B two B spaces, live events or in person events, 267 00:19:39.690 --> 00:19:44.470 I should say, have been canceled. And we're all kind of waited with bated 268 00:19:44.470 --> 00:19:48.270 breath like, OK, like what's gonna happen? Or some of these going to come 269 00:19:48.270 --> 00:19:53.130 back? I spend a ton of the time ton of my time on the road at these 270 00:19:53.130 --> 00:19:56.990 conferences, and they become just so important for nurturing these 271 00:19:56.990 --> 00:20:01.860 relationships with customers as well as finding, you know, just a great funnel 272 00:20:01.860 --> 00:20:06.570 of prospects of highly engaged prospects. So for us, that's that's 273 00:20:06.570 --> 00:20:11.060 been a huge problem that, you know, you still got to figure out like Okay, well, 274 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:16.130 how are we gonna make this up? And we know it, Z Well, we hope this is gonna 275 00:20:16.130 --> 00:20:24.760 be temporary and live events themselves don't necessarily fill that void. But 276 00:20:24.770 --> 00:20:29.340 for us in that category, we've been doing more tests. One of the things you 277 00:20:29.340 --> 00:20:33.760 know, having worked with you, Logan and James in the past like that was the 278 00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:37.670 first thing one of the first things we thought of is like Okay, well, we gotta 279 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.840 Let's start a podcast. Let's just try to create some really interesting new 280 00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:48.270 content and not only just record a podcast, but also take that podcast 281 00:20:48.270 --> 00:20:53.140 content. Slice it, dice it just as you guys have have always taught, like not 282 00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:58.230 just the video, but also writing blogged posts on it and putting it out 283 00:20:58.230 --> 00:21:03.590 in emails and in welcome drips and all sorts of things like that. And that has 284 00:21:03.590 --> 00:21:08.790 really been helpful for us because it took off more than than maybe even I 285 00:21:08.790 --> 00:21:13.530 expected, because we have really interesting. We have a great network 286 00:21:13.530 --> 00:21:18.050 that's part of what we dio. So that's been one and then building more just 287 00:21:18.050 --> 00:21:24.840 like master classes about particular products and features. But I still, in 288 00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:28.730 all honesty and transparency, I still have a little bit of a question mark 289 00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:33.590 over my head, like what will fill the void like, well, a launch event online 290 00:21:33.590 --> 00:21:38.000 be something that venture capitalist private equity leaders and, you know, 291 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.010 enterprise sales leaders, which is part of our new one of our new features that 292 00:21:42.010 --> 00:21:46.190 were products that we're launching. Will they show up for an hour long 293 00:21:46.190 --> 00:21:51.220 event and hang out on a webinar all day? I'm not sure. And I think that's what a 294 00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:54.600 lot of marketers are trying to figure out right now is it Comes Thio that 295 00:21:54.600 --> 00:21:59.950 events budget and and what's next there? Yeah, I think one of the things that 296 00:21:59.950 --> 00:22:04.220 we're going to see it came up as I was talking with the team at Adobe about 297 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.540 taking their conference virtual at the very beginning of the pandemic. I 298 00:22:07.540 --> 00:22:11.890 remember that being kind of, ah moment, along with the MBA, suspending their 299 00:22:11.890 --> 00:22:16.350 season like, Oh, Adobe is taking their conference virtual. This thing is riel, 300 00:22:16.360 --> 00:22:19.980 right? And one of the things that that they mentioned in that previous episode 301 00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:24.020 was that oftentimes people goto events not just for the content but for the 302 00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:27.600 networking. And I think that's where a lot of people are missing the boat in 303 00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:30.830 trying toe. Hey, we can push out content. We could make it easy to 304 00:22:30.830 --> 00:22:35.830 consume. Well, why would I do that? Why would I do that? Live right. And I 305 00:22:35.830 --> 00:22:39.890 think that that's where people might be missing the boat. James had a post on 306 00:22:39.890 --> 00:22:43.390 LinkedIn that really took off. And it spoke to part of the strategy that 307 00:22:43.390 --> 00:22:48.170 we're doing right now to create smaller, more intimate events What we call B two 308 00:22:48.170 --> 00:22:53.080 B growth groups where we're putting together small groups of 5678 marketing 309 00:22:53.080 --> 00:22:56.910 leaders where they can get that shoulder rubbing those intimate 310 00:22:56.910 --> 00:22:59.870 conversations. Those questions. What do you guys doing about this? What do you 311 00:22:59.870 --> 00:23:03.760 do in this? You know, we tried this. Anybody else face that. Those are the 312 00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:06.810 sorts of things. Why, You know, if you really think about it, that's why you 313 00:23:06.810 --> 00:23:10.160 go to the events, right? Because you know those sorts of conversations 314 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.390 they're gonna happen either with your peers or with your prospects. Depending 315 00:23:13.390 --> 00:23:17.230 on you know what seat you're sitting in. And before we hopped on, you mentioned 316 00:23:17.230 --> 00:23:22.780 being a part of a few different private marketing leader groups curious for 317 00:23:22.790 --> 00:23:26.470 either you yourself how you've participated in some of those trying to 318 00:23:26.470 --> 00:23:30.620 continue your own professional development remotely or the way that 319 00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:34.510 you guys, they're thinking about it at affinity. Any thoughts on kind of the 320 00:23:34.520 --> 00:23:38.970 smaller, more intimate online events going forward? Yeah, well, I'm very 321 00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:43.990 fortunate out affinity. We offer professional development for everyone 322 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:49.020 and have the capability to join some of these these groups. Yeah, I think it's 323 00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:53.020 really important. I will admit it. At one point in my career, I was like, I 324 00:23:53.020 --> 00:23:56.350 don't have time for this, you know, I just you know, there's so much going on. 325 00:23:56.350 --> 00:24:00.070 There's so many hours in the day your life is pulling you in all directions 326 00:24:00.140 --> 00:24:05.300 and I think it was really a positive for me. Thio, step back in and just 327 00:24:05.300 --> 00:24:09.350 have those conversations because you do realize that you're not the only one 328 00:24:09.350 --> 00:24:12.650 going through this. You know, you're not the only head of marketing that 329 00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:16.560 just got their events pulled, rug pulled out from under him, and they 330 00:24:16.560 --> 00:24:22.720 need to rethink their 2021 strategy and revamp it every week as things continue 331 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.290 to change. We're not the only ones in this in this boat, and I think it's 332 00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:30.010 also been really helpful and just having those conversations with other 333 00:24:30.010 --> 00:24:34.660 leaders of well, how are you tackling this problem like, how are you tackling 334 00:24:34.670 --> 00:24:39.970 that doing interviews? Remote like What is the best on on site for remote 335 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:44.300 interview? And those are some things that we are doing for the first time. 336 00:24:44.300 --> 00:24:47.010 And you know, you don't always have to reinvent the wheel. You can always 337 00:24:47.010 --> 00:24:51.970 borrow great ideas from your peer. So, yeah, I think it's wonderful. And to 338 00:24:51.970 --> 00:24:55.710 your point and James Point, I think it's just such a smart idea. We're 339 00:24:55.710 --> 00:25:00.990 doing that similarly with different sectors of our clients and launching 340 00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:04.650 that this quarter's well, just small, intimate groups of kind of like 341 00:25:04.650 --> 00:25:10.210 masterminds where they can also connect with each other. But it isn't a huge 342 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:14.160 event where, yeah, you could listen to his own recording or you're probably 343 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.070 eating lunch pain. A quarter of attention Thio What's happening at most? 344 00:25:18.080 --> 00:25:22.030 So yeah, there was a real problems, but we think that we think that this is, 345 00:25:22.030 --> 00:25:26.850 well, just creating these power users by focusing a lot of attention on those 346 00:25:26.860 --> 00:25:31.730 that can truly become evangelist. And I've written about that before. It's 347 00:25:31.730 --> 00:25:34.570 like fire your influencers. Higher evangelists find people that are 348 00:25:34.570 --> 00:25:38.530 passionate, who are power users of what you dio who are passionate about what 349 00:25:38.530 --> 00:25:42.630 you dio and feel those as much as you can because they're going to get your 350 00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:47.610 way farther than any influencer that you have to pay. Yeah, I love that line 351 00:25:47.610 --> 00:25:51.460 of fire influencers and and hire your evangelist. I heard Chris Walker 352 00:25:51.460 --> 00:25:55.220 talking about it on the State of Demand Jin podcast just the other day, and I 353 00:25:55.220 --> 00:25:59.460 think James did an episode here Previously about this will link to them 354 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:02.740 both in the show notes. But Chris Walker and the team at Refined Labs 355 00:26:02.740 --> 00:26:07.560 were talking about this concept of paying customers. Thio even join sales 356 00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:11.550 calls, which I thought was really interesting. You know, we kind of think 357 00:26:11.550 --> 00:26:15.420 about the reference check and everything there Anyway, You could go 358 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:18.500 deeper in that with the link in the show notes. I want to make sure we give 359 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.940 some time for you and to talk a little bit about how you guys have solved for 360 00:26:21.940 --> 00:26:25.840 the problem of your baby emotions with, you know, everybody working from home. 361 00:26:25.850 --> 00:26:30.040 How do you get mailing addresses If you do? What do you send and not be creepy? 362 00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:33.490 How, like these are all the questions that the marketing leaders I'm talking 363 00:26:33.490 --> 00:26:37.660 thio are bringing up. So what's been again would have been some of the 364 00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:41.630 common obstacles for you guys and some of the creative solutions there. Yeah, 365 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:46.150 absolutely. Because we were kind of hit as a company. You know, we're around 80 366 00:26:46.150 --> 00:26:50.910 people right now and so going fully remote, we had three problems one 367 00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:56.690 employee gifts or new hires sending out. You know, we gotta we hit a revenue 368 00:26:56.690 --> 00:27:00.350 target and everyone wanted backpacks. So you created these really cool 369 00:27:00.350 --> 00:27:05.360 backpacks and then you've got boxes on boxes. I don't want to goto ups and 370 00:27:05.360 --> 00:27:10.090 send out, you know, 80 different backpacks all over. So that was one 371 00:27:10.090 --> 00:27:14.440 problem, and like, how do you fix fix that going forward? The second problem, 372 00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:19.000 being as you talked about as we referred to before is like referrals. 373 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.040 Referrals is a massive part of our business. That's how we grew to our 374 00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:27.740 first million in our first year. Without really any ad spent was 375 00:27:27.740 --> 00:27:31.240 building these referral engines and it's continued to be an important part. 376 00:27:31.250 --> 00:27:35.600 And one of the things that's the easiest. We've never paid customers to 377 00:27:35.600 --> 00:27:39.600 do any of that. I'm kind of opposed to that personally, but I definitely wanna 378 00:27:39.600 --> 00:27:43.440 listen to what he said, because that's so interesting. But gifts? Thank you 379 00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:49.240 gifts. It's so easy, and most people forget because we written articles on, 380 00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:52.400 like how to give great referrals and things like that. Most people forget to 381 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:57.760 say Thank you, and it's so easy, sort of build that. But again, in a remote 382 00:27:57.760 --> 00:28:02.370 world, how do you send off all these gifts? The marketing team doesn't want 383 00:28:02.370 --> 00:28:07.080 to be doing this, and then third was the A B. M because A B M was a big 384 00:28:07.080 --> 00:28:11.500 portion of our strategy as well. And we sent out these really cool video cards 385 00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:16.640 for you. Open it up and it actually has a little video that's personalized to 386 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:22.790 the user. And we sent it with a pair of branded socks or a branded mask. And so 387 00:28:22.800 --> 00:28:27.500 what we figured out how to do one of the things you talked about was we 388 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:30.890 needed to find a vendor that could help us do this where we could ship 389 00:28:30.890 --> 00:28:36.190 everything to them. They take inventory, and we could just have a sending 390 00:28:36.190 --> 00:28:40.720 partner on DSO. We ended up using a company. It's a newer startup called 391 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:45.770 Bluebird. I think bluebird dot c x and they've been an incredible partner for 392 00:28:45.770 --> 00:28:50.440 us. They've taken that load off, especially from the HR people side and 393 00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:55.060 from my standpoint, for referral gifts and been able to do that. One of the 394 00:28:55.060 --> 00:29:00.290 strategies they taught us was to send out that email like, Hey, we just sent 395 00:29:00.290 --> 00:29:04.680 you a gift. A gift is coming. Confirm. If this is the right address, because, 396 00:29:04.690 --> 00:29:09.500 yeah, how do you, in a not creepy way, ask for someone's home address, 397 00:29:09.500 --> 00:29:14.700 especially when they might be a billionaire? Its's maybe not something 398 00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:19.650 they want to share, but the rates have been really impressive where people 399 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.480 feel confident in that. Like, No, that's my work address. I'm not going 400 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:28.350 back there until Q two. Here's the here's where to send it it. It feels a 401 00:29:28.350 --> 00:29:31.940 little more structured where it's not just sending it to a random sales 402 00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:35.030 person to go knock on their door because the deal hasn't got over the 403 00:29:35.030 --> 00:29:40.250 line. So that's been really effective for us, and then the A B M is also 404 00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:44.310 something really cool that again, bluebirds been able to help us with of 405 00:29:44.310 --> 00:29:49.640 sending all of our video cards to them, all of the gifts to them having that 406 00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:54.050 packaged and having them actually upload the videos that we produce. So, 407 00:29:54.140 --> 00:29:57.950 yeah, that's I think you've got to find those kind of sending partners that can 408 00:29:57.950 --> 00:30:04.360 facilitate the nitty gritty stuff that as marketers, we have a lane team so as 409 00:30:04.360 --> 00:30:08.720 we're hiring now, but we continue to have, ah fairly lane team compared to 410 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:13.480 some some org's. And yeah, we don't have people to sit there and box. Nor 411 00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:18.480 do you really want your your your your teammates to be sitting there packaging 412 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:23.350 and being the deployment. So that was some of the things we've used. It's 413 00:30:23.350 --> 00:30:27.980 amazing. So I I like dropping the plug for a tool that you guys have used with 414 00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:31.590 Blue Bird that that c X. You talked about looker from a dashboard 415 00:30:31.590 --> 00:30:35.720 perspective, just kind of on mailing stuff. I kind of had that same ah ha 416 00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:40.020 moment earlier this year, James's book launched and I'm like, Sweet, I wanna 417 00:30:40.020 --> 00:30:43.600 be able to send some customers and prospects, a copy of content based 418 00:30:43.600 --> 00:30:47.920 networking and then just realizing I gotta get an address, and how can I 419 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.590 ship that? Oh, we could do media male, but like, how do I do that in bulk? And 420 00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:55.510 who's gonna What are we gonna put in? And I was just like, Oh, there's a 421 00:30:55.510 --> 00:30:59.630 whole rabbit hole here. So figuring out where you want to outsource where you 422 00:30:59.630 --> 00:31:04.370 want Thio bring in a new tool or a new partner, I think makes a lot of sense. 423 00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:08.520 And I like what you said there too. And even if you're you know, not the stage 424 00:31:08.520 --> 00:31:12.880 Thio, use a sending partner like Bluebeard. Just think about how you 425 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.140 could implement something similar to that that suggested workflow. Hey, we 426 00:31:17.140 --> 00:31:20.160 want to send you a gift. Can you confirm and make it very easy to either 427 00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:24.680 click a button or click? No. And then they have ah option to put in there 428 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:28.830 their address and make it easy. There's ways that you could obviously build 429 00:31:28.830 --> 00:31:33.280 that workflow internally s. So I think that's great advice and any parting 430 00:31:33.280 --> 00:31:38.600 words for folks as we look towards the last part of 2020 and anything that you 431 00:31:38.600 --> 00:31:42.080 think other marketing leaders need to hear is we're probably going to 432 00:31:42.080 --> 00:31:45.450 continue to pivot with, you know, whatever comes next. You and I are 433 00:31:45.450 --> 00:31:49.340 recording this on Election Day, so who knows what's what's happening tomorrow? 434 00:31:49.350 --> 00:31:53.270 There are obviously future pivots coming our way in a lot of different 435 00:31:53.280 --> 00:31:57.060 areas, and we probably don't even know what those are yet. So any words of 436 00:31:57.060 --> 00:32:00.930 wisdom for other marketing leaders out there as we round things up today? Yeah, 437 00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:04.900 I think this is gonna be especially 2021 but this is really a time to shine. 438 00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:09.290 For agile marketing leaders who were willing Thio who have some startup 439 00:32:09.290 --> 00:32:15.190 chops, your willing thio take each wave and try to land it is best we can Yeah, 440 00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:19.770 I think that the only kind of party device that I see is the best marketers 441 00:32:19.770 --> 00:32:25.080 that I have ever met always kind of keep that creativity side and their 442 00:32:25.080 --> 00:32:29.380 analytic side very well balanced. And I think that's gonna matter even more in 443 00:32:29.380 --> 00:32:33.670 2021 where there's going to be data thrown at us from all different 444 00:32:33.670 --> 00:32:37.990 directions of what could be and what might possibly happen. And we have to 445 00:32:37.990 --> 00:32:41.310 keep ourselves grounded. You know, the degree I wish I would have got as 446 00:32:41.310 --> 00:32:45.150 opposed to communications and political science, was psychology because it's 447 00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:50.250 all about as marketers, we need to get inside our personas or I c p ideal 448 00:32:50.250 --> 00:32:54.710 customer profile. Just that's the whole time. There we go. Practicing what we 449 00:32:54.710 --> 00:32:58.290 talked about earlier. Yeah, I love that. And yes, there to make sure that we 450 00:32:58.290 --> 00:33:01.940 understand that we're marketing towards the right people will not let you know. 451 00:33:01.940 --> 00:33:05.480 Data goes straight because I do think that there's gonna be so much that's 452 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:09.340 thrown at us. We've got to stay grounded. I love it. And this has been 453 00:33:09.340 --> 00:33:14.110 a great conversation. Thank you so much. For now. Being repeat guest on the show. 454 00:33:14.120 --> 00:33:17.560 If anybody listening to this, your new on their radar, they'd like to ask you 455 00:33:17.560 --> 00:33:21.240 some follow up questions or just stay connected with you Is a fellow B two b 456 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.780 marketing leader. What's the best way for them to follow up for stay 457 00:33:23.780 --> 00:33:28.540 connected with you? Yeah, absolutely. You can connect with me on Twitter. 458 00:33:28.550 --> 00:33:35.020 It's an E and an e g. Or on Lincoln. Happy If you wanna email Mia's well and 459 00:33:35.020 --> 00:33:39.440 an n e at affinity dot c o Thanks so much. Logan, I really appreciate your 460 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.990 time. Absolutely, and really appreciate you being a guest on the show again. 461 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.950 For the longest time, I was asking people to leave a review of B two B 462 00:33:47.950 --> 00:33:51.970 growth in Apple podcasts, but I realized that was kind of stupid, 463 00:33:51.980 --> 00:33:57.400 because leaving a review is way harder than just leaving a simple rating. So 464 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.210 I'm changing my tune a bit. Instead of asking you to leave a review, I'm just 465 00:34:01.210 --> 00:34:05.250 gonna ask you to go to be to be growth in apple podcasts, scroll down until 466 00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:09.170 you see the ratings and review section and just tap the number of stars you 467 00:34:09.170 --> 00:34:13.870 wanna give us. No review necessary Super easy. And I promise it will help 468 00:34:13.870 --> 00:34:18.310 us out a ton. If you want a copy of my book content based networking, just 469 00:34:18.310 --> 00:34:21.989 shoot me a text. After you leave the rating on, I'll send one your way. Text 470 00:34:21.989 --> 00:34:27.409 me at 4074903328 True