Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah.
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Hey everyone welcome back to be, to be
growth. I'm Olivia Hurley with sweet
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fish media and today I am joined by
Nicole smith from tackle io Nicole. How
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are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks
for having me here today. Olivia. Oh my
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gosh! Of course, my pleasure. Well I,
I'm so excited for this conversation
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before we hit record. We were talking
about some trends you were seeing in
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the market. We were talking about ways
that you thought people could adjust
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what they're doing to win even more. Um,
and one of those things was you've
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noticed that people don't focus on
customer marketing until there's a
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churn issue. So I'm wondering, what do
you suggest instead? Yeah. So I really
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think, you know, you should start with
the customer. I think it's important to
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always be doing customer marketing. I
think it's just so easy, especially in
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like the B two B startup world to, you
know, focus on the sales and top of the
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funnel and that's what so many metrics
are driven off of. But you know, if
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you're going to start building a
marketing team or you already have a
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marketing team or maybe you're
requiring one, like take a step back
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and think about like how are we
supporting our customers from the
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marketing perspective? We have someone
dedicated to doing marketing for them.
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And if not, then this is probably a
great episode to think about, you know,
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some things that you can be doing and
like how those will impact some of your
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growth metrics for your company as well.
So let's break it down to the bare
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bones here. What is customer marketing
and how is it different than regular
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marketing? Sure. That's a great
question. So when I think of customer
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marketing, I think of everything post
sale. So after that deal closes, that's
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really what I think customer marketing
starts and picks up. And so customer
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marketers are really going to be
focused on the retention and expansion
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efforts. So helping with Upsell and
cross sell opportunities and supporting,
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you know, the customer success team and
helping to keep those customers so that
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no insurance. And then you know,
regular marketing, I think of that as
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everything like, you know, that's the
demand to inside of things and helping
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move those prospects from the top of
the funnel to the middle of the funnel
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to the bottom of the funnel that they
do convert and it's using content and
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enablement to drive them through those
stages. I love it. That was so succinct.
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So why do people generally neglect
customer marketing until there's red
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flags and, and the turn issue? So I
will say I was guilty of this for a
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long time. And so this might be, you
know, another reason I'm passionate
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about it, but I really didn't realize
like how big of a problem it was until
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I was at a company before tackle and we
were a customer success platform
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actually, but I have spent so much time
before that in the Martek space and
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everything, there is focused on the
buyer journey, you know, we were, it
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was all marketing automation tools in
your text check and you know, how do
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you move buyers through that, how do
you get them to sales and get them to
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close and lead scoring and lead
nurturing and that's what like
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marketers were supposed to understand
and be obsessed with and then you know
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when I got to my last company it was
like wow there's a huge gap here and
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you know that's what the whole platform
did was how you know, how can you make
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sure these customers are churning, what
are the sides of, you know, this
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customer success team is really
important, but it's not just a customer
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success effort, it's an effort for the
whole organization. Uh understanding
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that, you know, you need to priority,
like marketing needs to focus on them,
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product needs to focus on them. I mean
sales needs to be focused on them too.
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And I think, you know, the real reason
that they're neglected so much. It's
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just because like that acquisition side
is prioritized and there's sometimes
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confusion over who owns it in an
organization. You know, sales reps
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sometimes have responsibility for those
up selling cross sell opportunities. Um
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account managers, you know, customer
success there supporting customers, but
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sometimes they don't always have like
revenue goals tied to that. You know,
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product wants to make sure everything's
working right there, getting user
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feedback and so everyone's getting
these different, you know, sets of
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feedback and talking to customers in
different ways, but no one's really
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putting that all together and saying
like, okay, we need to be doing this
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and putting a program around it. And
that's where I think it's, you know,
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you need someone that can take that
collaborative problem approach and
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understand what the customers need and
really put together a program based on
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that. So if somebody wants to foray
into this world, how do you recommend
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they alter the focus? So before even
step one, how do they turn the ship? So
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I think you really have to make it a
top down initiative in your company
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because if like the leadership team and
C suite isn't on board, then it's just
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not gonna work. So if you're doing
something like okay, R. S or B. Two
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moms that your company, so different
versions of goal setting, you should
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have something that focuses on, you
know, your customers, you know, maybe
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it's a retention and expansion goal. I
prefer those over turn. Um, you know,
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instead of focusing on like lowering
your turn rate because I think turn can
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be a really reactive measurement piece.
So I would rather focus on like those
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positive metrics and then I think it's
what's important to you and something
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we do a tackle is like we have the
different functional teams, each create
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their own, we use okay ours but create
their own like goals and key
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performance indicators based off that
main company goal. So, you know, I have
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a goal around that, you know, sales
does customer success, does product
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does and then we're all collaborating
together to make sure, you know, our
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effort to line and that we're not, you
know, doing overlapping work, but
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there's like one owner of all of this
and how are we all working together to
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hit that company goal? So I think
that's really important that it's top
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down and lead and that you kind of
understand there's not going to be one
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size fits all too for every company
that depending on your, you know,
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average deal size and who your
customers are, you know, what industry
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they're in, that you're probably going
to have to just kind of experiment and
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figure it out as you go along a little
bit as well. So what results have you
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seen from taking this approach and
focusing on customer marketing? You
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know, there's been a lot of different
results over the years. I'll talk about
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one that I think is really great that
we've seen a tackle, we have some of
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the strongest like advocates ever. Um,
I think from focusing on our customer
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marketing and just being really strong
in this area. So one of the things
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we've done is um, during the pandemic
and Covid times was we started having
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these virtual wind nights for prospects
and opportunities, so people that were
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in the sales funnel and we decided like,
let's, you know, instead of these
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people just hearing from tackle of why
tackle is great and why you should be
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on cloud marketplaces. Let's invite a
few of our customers to this session as
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well. And if they want to share, you
know, talk about their experience with
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marketplace and tackle, they can do
that as well. But we set it up kind of
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an intimate event with about, you know,
30 people on a total of an hour and a
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half a solemn, let us through some
tastings and we didn't prep customers
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were just like, hey, come have wine and
join these conversations. And it turned
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into something we just didn't expect. I
mean our customers would come on and
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just sing the praises of tackle. They
would, you know, and all we did for
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them and the prospects ended up not
asking tackle any questions. They would
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just start asking customers questions
about their experience. And it was so
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cool to see this effect of like kind of
building this community and you know,
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us not having to go into something
themselves because no one wants to hear
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from us more. They've already talked to
our sales team, but just getting to
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hear it from people that have already
worked with us was just pretty amazing.
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I think now we've done eight of these
so far just because they've been so
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successful. And just again, it's in a
very natural way just not having
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another salesperson talked to you and
said someone who's in their space and
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they can understand like, okay, they've
done this and this makes sense and this
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is how they've been able to, you know,
see positive results. I think that's
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one of the coolest things I've seen
over this past year. Hey, everybody
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Logan was sweet this year. You probably
already know that we think you should
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start a podcast if you haven't already.
But what if you have and you're asking
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these kinds of questions, how much has
our podcast impacted revenue this year?
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How's our sales team actually
leveraging the podcast content? If you
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can't answer these questions, you're
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in action and casted dot us slash
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growth. That's C A S T E D dot us slash
growth. All right, let's get back to
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the show. Oh, that's fascinating. I've
met so many people are going to want to
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replicate that and try it for
themselves. Should, who doesn't love a
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Y night? So now let's get tactical for
somebody wanting to follow what you're
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saying. What is step one? What step to
kind of walk me through some of those
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first for scepter. So the first step is
I really think you have should have
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someone that's dedicated to customer
marketing. I've tried to do it where
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it's like someone in my marketing teams
job as part of like their other
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responsibilities like in content
marketing do it and I just don't think
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it works. I think it has to be
someone's full time role to own this.
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Like it's just as important as demand
gen marketing or content marketing as
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well. I mean but I think just so many
people don't prioritize that as a role.
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So the first episode dedicating so into
the role. The second step is really
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segmenting your customers and figuring
out the right programs that are going
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to work for them. So I think you know
you can look at your customers and say
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okay we have a lot of enterprise
customers so they need to be more high
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touch. So maybe the things that we do
for them or things like these kind of
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virtual wind events um Or we create
more of like a customer advisory board
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with them if they're you know really
special customers so we can you know
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hear them. We've done things back when
we were traveling more which will
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happen again now but our C. R. O. Was
going and going to our customer sales
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Kickoffs and he would actually do
training for customers at those events
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um to train them on tackle and using
how to market place. So things like
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that are great like just those kind of
one on one personalized training if you
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have a tech touch like lower tier of
customers, you know maybe it's those
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like premium or you know some of the
free trial or even like that smb group
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you can do things like in app messaging
more online training or just kind of
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like email communication for them and
things like that. And then if you have
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that like maybe it's a middle segment
of customers who you know, will be high
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value, but they need more nurturing,
think of things that you can do, like
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an LMS with some online training or
digital content. We've also done things
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like an office hours, so we set that up
where we were um every month. We were
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we do two of these sessions where
customers can come and ask us anything
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on specific topics. So something like
that can be really impactful as well um
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You know and just webinars or even
setting up a user group. So I think,
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you know, it's kind of grouping your
customers and figuring out what works
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for each segment and how to approach
them with those different marketing
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aspects because it's definitely not a
one size fits all for all your
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different customer base and you really
have to like think about what's gonna
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work for all of them. And then I would
say the last step is really like
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tracking and measuring your data. So
just like you do for prospects, you
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should score them and track customers
like look at what content they have
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engaged engaged with. Like are they not
looking at something that they should
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be looking at and then you have more
data on your customers than you do on
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anyone at the top of the funnel who's,
you know, just a prospect and you know,
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hasn't converted yet. So you know, you
can look at an app things with
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different tools, you know, like Pando
and things like that. Like to
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understand is like the frequency
changing in which they're looking at
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your products. Are they not utilizing
certain features? Like if so maybe
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there's a need for more accustomed
communication or you know, sending them
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a video on, how do you utilize
something? Or again, inviting them to
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like a special office hours on that
topic. And then I like to, you know,
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identify customer needs and like look
at things like, you know, if you have
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gone or course or something like that,
you know, setting up certain tags in
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there and you know, so filtering
customer calls to maybe understand
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challenges that might be coming up and
that should probably help you create
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content as well to say like, okay, this
is a pain point with this part of the
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product. Maybe we need some more
training to address that and you know,
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that's all. Also things you can look at
in your crm if you know, people are
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detailed note takers in that area and
you know, maybe groups some of those
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people, if there are challenges into a
user group and, or you know, send out
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surveys like, you know, mps and see
sack and help you also gauge some of
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that. But I think like, you know, voice
of the customer through all those
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different ways, whether it's like gong
or surveys and you know, just listening
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and understanding can be super powerful
in helping you understand, you know,
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that's what you need to do to kind of
course correct on this. Oh my gosh,
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that is gold dust. So step one is to
have a dedicated customer marketing
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person. Step two is to determine and
categorize your current customers into
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categories and two sides into needs.
And then three is to score them like
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you would your prospects. Oh my gosh,
fascinating. That's such a good place
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to start. So for somebody who is Going
to implement three step process, what's
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a warning sign that they're getting it
wrong? Yeah. So I think, you know, some
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warning signs could be like people
aren't engaging with the content that
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you're sending. And I think some of
that happens if you're using really
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template ID communications, um, you
know, if you're treating customers like
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strangers, which, you know, you have
more, again, you have more data on them
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than anyone else. So I think it really
takes some extra time. And this is
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again where I see people struggle with
customer marketing, is that like you
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have to build a communication on like
your individual and account needs. It
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can't just be like a mass email blast
that you're sending out, inviting all
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your customers to one webinar and it's,
you know, making sure, you know, even
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doing things like if renewal and
expansion rapid is the relationship,
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make them the center of an email
instead of, you know, myself. Like, I
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don't need to be sending an email to
these customers for something. So I
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think things like that, if people
aren't responding, they're opting out
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of things. That's a pretty bad sign.
And another thing that I think is that
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again, it can be a retroactive thing,
but if you turn is going up again,
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that's something I don't like to look
at. But well, obviously every business
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should look at it. But I think it's
something that, you know, if that is
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the case, like you want to understand
why customers are leaving before you do,
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which is why, you know, all of this
data is good to understand. But
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sometimes what I've seen with that is
that the buyer is not the end user and
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so people are trying to create content
or repurposed content from the
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acquisition stage and the people that
they're marketing to in the platform so
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they might have all the contact and the
crm from the people that were in the
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sales cycle with them. But then the
people that are used, actually, the
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users of the platform are completely
different users and they've never
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really been in contact with them and
the marketers are still sending all
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this content to people that don't
really, you know, care, they're not
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using the product day to day. They just
signed off on like the purchase order
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and everything like that. And so the
end users feel really left out of this
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and they need help and support and with
like more nurturing from marketing. So
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I think that's kind of one of the signs
too that I see is like you're talking
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to the wrong people in your marketing
efforts as well. So out of all of the,
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like I said before gold dust that
you've left in this conversation, what
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is the one big takeaway you would want
people to get from this episode? I
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think probably that the better you
understand your customer, it's just
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going to make your marketing more
effective um and it's really going to
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help your entire buyers journey because
like I said, you're going to have so
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much data on your customers and then
you can really use that to work with
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the rest of your marketing and sales
team and really help shape like your
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ideal customer profile more effectively,
which is just going to allow. I think
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it just helps the rest of your, you
know, messaging efforts or demand jin
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efforts and everything you're doing
like a count based efforts to resonate
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more with the information you
understand. So I would say not only is
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it going to help you, you know,
everyone will say, you know, it caught,
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there's that famous stats that it's
like I think it cost five times more to
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acquire a new customer that does to
retain an existing one. So not only
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that stat but it's also just going to
help you make the acquisition cost a
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lot less expensive if you actually have
or taking that data that you gain and
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using it effectively in the virus
turning Nicole. Thank you so much for
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joining me today. Where can people go
to learn more about you and tackle?
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Sure. So they can probably learn more
about me. The best place is probably
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00:18:23.040 --> 00:18:29.280
linked in. I try and post um you know,
as actively as I can and then um to
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learn more about tackle, you can visit
tackle dot io well thank you so much
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for joining me on the to be growth.
Thank you so much for having me Olivia.
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Such a fun conversation.
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Yeah.
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Mm mm. Yeah. For the longest time I was
asking people to leave a review of GDP
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00:18:49.030 --> 00:18:53.780
growth in apple podcasts but I realized
that was kind of stupid because leaving
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00:18:53.780 --> 00:18:58.520
a review is way harder than just
leaving a simple rating. So I'm
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00:18:58.520 --> 00:19:02.190
changing my tune a bit. Instead of
asking you to leave a review, I'm just
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00:19:02.190 --> 00:19:06.340
gonna ask you to go to be be growth in
apple podcasts, scroll down until you
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00:19:06.340 --> 00:19:10.210
see the ratings and reviews section and
just tap the number of stars you want
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00:19:10.210 --> 00:19:15.140
to give us no review necessary. Super
easy. And I promise it will help us out
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00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:19.430
a ton. If you want a copy of my book,
content based networking just shoot me
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a text after you leave the rating and
I'll send one your way text me at 4074
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and I know 33 to 8.