2022 Predictions with James Carbary and Rex Biberston

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.140 --> 00:00:08.910 my name is Benji Block. We're excited today to be joined by rex and James 2 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:12.730 guys, how you doing? Fantastic man, this is gonna be a blast, I'm feeling 3 00:00:12.730 --> 00:00:14.350 it, we're gonna go through some predictions here, they're gonna be good. 4 00:00:14.840 --> 00:00:21.240 Yes, so we got 11.5 months or so before us, 2022 pretty much a blank slate. And 5 00:00:21.240 --> 00:00:25.660 we're gonna have each of you bring to predictions to the table, excited to 6 00:00:25.660 --> 00:00:29.320 hear your thoughts and where you think things are headed James, let's just 7 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:33.380 kick it off right with you. What's the prediction you have as you look at the 8 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:39.050 year ahead. Yeah, so I think we're going to start to see niche media 9 00:00:39.050 --> 00:00:43.730 properties and communities like marketing, millennials, peak community 10 00:00:43.730 --> 00:00:48.880 rev genius, D GMG, maybe even pavilion. We're going to see one of those major 11 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:52.990 marketing communities get acquired probably by a software company. I just 12 00:00:52.990 --> 00:00:59.220 think it's too smart to go. Like it takes years and years and years to 13 00:00:59.220 --> 00:01:04.530 build these audiences and companies that have raised lots of cash, it just 14 00:01:04.530 --> 00:01:08.540 makes a lot of sense for them to go and acquire those audiences. The trick will 15 00:01:08.540 --> 00:01:15.100 be for them to still continue to treat those communities like the way that the 16 00:01:15.100 --> 00:01:19.380 brand's treated them to build them up to where they are today. So I love 17 00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:23.210 seeing what outreach is doing with the sales hacker community. It's not a 18 00:01:23.210 --> 00:01:27.870 pitch fest, they're still continuing to run sales hacker like an independent 19 00:01:27.870 --> 00:01:32.320 community, they obviously own access to it. So there's massive leverage that 20 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:37.360 they have by being able to own a community of their ideal buyers, 21 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.340 interesting. So when you think about that, when you're kind of looking at 22 00:01:42.340 --> 00:01:46.690 the landscape and seeing other people, what excites you about the move towards 23 00:01:46.700 --> 00:01:50.720 community and these sort of niche groups. And honestly, I think there's a 24 00:01:50.720 --> 00:01:55.000 lot of room for innovation within community. So yes, I think communities 25 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:58.360 are going to start getting acquired, but I don't even think we've begun to 26 00:01:58.360 --> 00:02:02.880 scratch the surface in terms of creativity with how people are building 27 00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:06.400 communities. So what we're doing this year, what rex and his team are doing 28 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:10.229 this year is really doubling down on what we're calling marketing squads. 29 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:15.090 One too many communities are great or can be great because they're one too 30 00:02:15.090 --> 00:02:19.640 many. I mean, there's not a whole lot of value in it for me to hear one 31 00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:24.600 person particularly talked to the masses. I can do that by following them 32 00:02:24.600 --> 00:02:28.510 on linkedin. But what we're trying to do with marketing squads is actually 33 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:33.340 similar. I think Pavilion has the best shot at making a pivot into this model. 34 00:02:33.350 --> 00:02:37.300 And not to say that this model is is the only way to do it, but we're 35 00:02:37.300 --> 00:02:41.810 building micro communities. So by the end of this year, hopefully we'll have 36 00:02:41.810 --> 00:02:49.090 hundreds of people in these monthly one hour micro communities that meet with 37 00:02:49.100 --> 00:02:53.270 and we're excluding everybody but director level and above in house B two 38 00:02:53.270 --> 00:02:56.890 B marketing leaders. So there's not gonna be agency folks in there. This 39 00:02:56.890 --> 00:03:01.110 isn't gonna be a pitch fest. And we're putting 10 like minded individuals. 40 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:07.840 Director VP level marketing leaders in the same zoom call, inviting 10 of them 41 00:03:07.850 --> 00:03:11.380 to, to be in that zoom call once a month. And that group will last six 42 00:03:11.380 --> 00:03:14.270 months at the end of the six months, people can say, hey, this was super 43 00:03:14.270 --> 00:03:18.730 valuable, I want to do this again or hey, I'm out and we'll have a slack 44 00:03:18.730 --> 00:03:23.010 community or some sort of community that's more, one too many that bolts 45 00:03:23.010 --> 00:03:26.970 onto that. We'll do some in person events as part of that. But as you know, 46 00:03:26.970 --> 00:03:31.520 we're not necessarily building this for it to get acquired. But over the next 47 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:36.110 234 years when we've got hundreds or maybe even thousands of people in these 48 00:03:36.110 --> 00:03:40.600 micro communities that we are directly influencing. It just makes a lot of 49 00:03:40.600 --> 00:03:45.240 sense for a software company trying to sell the marketing leaders to come and 50 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:49.590 try to buy our community. And so as a business builder, I just think that's 51 00:03:49.590 --> 00:03:53.280 really powerful. I mean, we're, we're building a show and B two B growth that 52 00:03:53.290 --> 00:03:57.750 I think 5, 10 years from now easily acquire a ble asset, we're building a 53 00:03:57.750 --> 00:04:01.740 community that's an easily acquire a ble asset on top of our service 54 00:04:01.740 --> 00:04:06.240 business, which is also an acquire a ble asset. And so I think there's 55 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:11.770 massive value in building community with intimacy. And I don't see that in 56 00:04:11.770 --> 00:04:15.390 a lot of the one too many type communities, it feels more like 57 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:18.940 audience building than it does. Community building an audience building 58 00:04:18.940 --> 00:04:22.290 is great. We're trying to do that too. We've got a director of audience growth 59 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:27.220 that is bullish on that and we hired him to be bullish on that. So uh not 60 00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:31.630 not at all downplaying or just a different, yeah, it's just, it's just a 61 00:04:31.630 --> 00:04:36.640 different type of community, but again, we don't have the market cornered on 62 00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:40.280 how to build a great community. I think what chris walker is doing at refined 63 00:04:40.280 --> 00:04:44.690 labs with those weekly calls that he's doing, it's hard to argue that he's not 64 00:04:44.690 --> 00:04:48.480 building a legitimate community of really, really sharp B two B marketers 65 00:04:48.490 --> 00:04:51.730 over there as well. I really like the way we're doing it and I really like 66 00:04:51.730 --> 00:04:54.770 the way we're thinking about it. And I think in the groups that we've already 67 00:04:54.770 --> 00:04:58.630 done up to this point, I think they've added massive value to people. And so 68 00:04:58.630 --> 00:05:01.960 we're ready to double down, We just hired someone to focus on that full 69 00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:06.450 time, um that comes from a marketing leadership background. The first guy 70 00:05:06.450 --> 00:05:09.860 that we had running those didn't come from a marketing background came from a 71 00:05:09.860 --> 00:05:13.640 community background and what we learned over the eight months that he 72 00:05:13.640 --> 00:05:17.080 was leading the charge is that having someone that understands marketing, 73 00:05:17.090 --> 00:05:21.570 facilitating those micro communities Is actually really, really important. So 74 00:05:21.580 --> 00:05:25.610 we're making those groups better going into 2022, not that, you know, I'm 75 00:05:25.610 --> 00:05:28.030 saying we're going to get acquired by the end of the year, but I think you're 76 00:05:28.030 --> 00:05:31.140 gonna see a community get acquired by the end of the year. I like that 77 00:05:31.140 --> 00:05:35.180 prediction and the value in the back and forth I think is something a lot of 78 00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:38.480 people are realizing because in the one to many there's a lot of information 79 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.530 given, which is great but you can get that from so many different streams 80 00:05:42.670 --> 00:05:46.980 commodity. Right? Exactly. Well yeah, in some sense it's becoming a commodity 81 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:50.010 where people are then going okay, where are we taking these conversations 82 00:05:50.020 --> 00:05:54.130 smaller where there's just a few people and there's a lot of back and forth so 83 00:05:54.130 --> 00:05:57.670 we can really dive into our specific situations and the solutions we're 84 00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:01.590 looking for the things we were thinking about and it gets hyper specific which 85 00:06:01.590 --> 00:06:04.850 is Value added to the people in the groups and then obviously as a company 86 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:08.720 huge value added that you're the one facilitating. So I love that one. James 87 00:06:08.730 --> 00:06:12.110 Rex anything you want to add to that before you give us your first 88 00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:15.180 prediction. Yeah, I want to double click on something in there that was 89 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.630 kind of behind what James is talking about that. Maybe some marketers 90 00:06:17.630 --> 00:06:21.990 haven't thought about in some marketing leaders the kind of hidden value of a 91 00:06:21.990 --> 00:06:26.550 community, it's not just that now you have people who are on the frontlines 92 00:06:26.550 --> 00:06:29.040 like they're your ideal customer, you're meeting with them, they're 93 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.510 hearing about your brand. Like that's great. You're on the tip of their 94 00:06:31.510 --> 00:06:33.360 tongue when they think about the problem that you solve. Right? 95 00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:37.620 Fantastic. There is a hidden benefit to content marketing. Think about the 96 00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:41.190 average content marketing approaches. We pick topics, we think people care 97 00:06:41.190 --> 00:06:44.850 about that relate to our product and then we write content. The secret 98 00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:47.590 benefit that James and I've just been kind of uncovering from what 99 00:06:47.590 --> 00:06:52.210 communities are gonna be for us is that we are in micro communities where 100 00:06:52.210 --> 00:06:57.090 they're controlling the conversation. Our people who show up from our team 101 00:06:57.090 --> 00:07:00.240 are just listening. They're just they're facilitating conversation but 102 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:04.040 they're not picking the topics, they're not sharing all the advice, They're not 103 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:07.090 acting as experts, they are simply facilitating. So what we get out of 104 00:07:07.090 --> 00:07:10.180 that as a side benefit that I think is really smart for software companies who 105 00:07:10.180 --> 00:07:14.010 are going to acquire these communities in the future is going to be that you 106 00:07:14.010 --> 00:07:18.740 have a very short feedback loop on what's really, you know, top of mind 107 00:07:18.750 --> 00:07:22.710 for your buyers like what do they actually care about today? Not what did 108 00:07:22.710 --> 00:07:26.650 your head of content marketing think they cared about? There's a gap there 109 00:07:26.660 --> 00:07:30.180 and it's powerful and and we're all talking about this lately. How much the 110 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:34.110 market is changing. How rapidly because of Covid because of other like, you 111 00:07:34.110 --> 00:07:37.230 know, we're digitizing everything, we're making everything online and so 112 00:07:37.230 --> 00:07:40.810 it's changing so quickly. What's our feedback loop like with our audience. 113 00:07:40.810 --> 00:07:44.310 Well, it's try and build an audience while simultaneously trying to serve 114 00:07:44.310 --> 00:07:48.670 that audience, And then the feedback you're getting is weeks, months years 115 00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:53.120 later, like, you're getting that so late, where we could put that on the 116 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.180 front of the feedback loop, is them telling us what to write and then we 117 00:07:57.180 --> 00:08:00.570 share it with those communities, they feel served and heard, and then they're 118 00:08:00.570 --> 00:08:04.140 telling us, Yeah, that makes sense, or no, I disagree with you and we continue 119 00:08:04.140 --> 00:08:09.100 to learn much, much faster. So the community way behind that, not just 120 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:12.590 that there, Oh, hey, when I think of podcast, I think of Sweet Fish, oh, hey, 121 00:08:12.590 --> 00:08:15.530 when I think of Marc and I think of Dave Gerhard, like that's not the 122 00:08:15.530 --> 00:08:18.330 entire thing. Now, Dave Gerhart knows how to write a million pieces of 123 00:08:18.330 --> 00:08:22.440 content if he's using those communities in that way. Yeah, and I would imagine 124 00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:25.590 that's why he's putting out as much content as he is, and that's why Chris 125 00:08:25.590 --> 00:08:28.880 says that he's able to put out as much content as he is, because he's 126 00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:32.080 literally got these weekly demanding lives that he's doing, where he's 127 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:36.799 hearing people's feedback live and then turning it into content, what what I 128 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:41.120 think is something that we're going to be doing this next year, that I'm 129 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:44.620 really excited about is, you know, as you and I were x, we're talking in our 130 00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:47.650 one on one the other day, it's like, how can we make sure that Diana who's 131 00:08:47.650 --> 00:08:51.520 gonna be running these groups is getting those insights back into the 132 00:08:51.520 --> 00:08:56.360 business. And one of the ideas we had was we need to start recording B two B 133 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:01.240 growth episodes with her once a week, you know me, you dan Diana like just 134 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:06.240 jamming once a week on a topic that she chooses based on the conversations that 135 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:11.690 are happening in those squads. Because those are real time things that we as 136 00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:15.470 you know, as a service business, we don't necessarily, you know, we don't 137 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:19.390 have firsthand experience of what sas companies are dealing with or what 138 00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:26.150 other verticals are dealing with. But by Diana being leading those groups and 139 00:09:26.150 --> 00:09:29.540 facilitating those conversations, she's gonna have her finger on the pulse of 140 00:09:29.540 --> 00:09:33.450 what really matters, going back to your point earlier. So that's one way to do 141 00:09:33.450 --> 00:09:37.790 it. Like take those insights and then inject it back into your content when 142 00:09:37.790 --> 00:09:42.630 we do long form pillar content through B two B growth. Around these topics 143 00:09:42.640 --> 00:09:47.060 that Diana is gonna be facilitating for us on BBB growth. Like that now becomes 144 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:50.810 micro content that we share on linkedin. It's gonna fuel the three things 145 00:09:50.810 --> 00:09:54.370 newsletter that I write every day. We're gonna try to share that as much 146 00:09:54.370 --> 00:09:59.000 as we can with our existing team so that we understand our buyers better 147 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.450 than any other service provider in the game and that's ultimately what's going 148 00:10:02.450 --> 00:10:05.940 to lead us to the results that we think we can achieve. Yeah, it all feeds back 149 00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:09.840 into each other, which is wonderful from a content perspective, because if 150 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.720 you want to get rid of commodity content, like we do, you got to know 151 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:17.450 exactly what people are thinking about right now, the community to do that? 152 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.840 Yeah, I feel like it's almost trite to say you have to understand your 153 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:25.290 audience, everybody like that's commodity, everybody's saying that, but 154 00:10:25.300 --> 00:10:28.070 the game is trying to figure out how do you understand your audience? And I 155 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:31.090 think we're tapping into something that's a really effective way to do 156 00:10:31.090 --> 00:10:37.710 that, yep, let's go to rex what is a prediction you have as you look At this 157 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:41.810 next 12 months, I feel like this is cheating because anything you see on 158 00:10:41.810 --> 00:10:45.370 linkedin these days, right? Anything from maybe the hot marketers that 159 00:10:45.370 --> 00:10:48.930 you're seeing out there is something that's going to be a leading indicator 160 00:10:48.930 --> 00:10:52.750 of what's to come in the future years, especially depending on the industry. 161 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:56.230 So what I could say is, oh, content marketing is going to be a thing, and 162 00:10:56.230 --> 00:11:00.090 you're like, oh, that's that's been around for decades, right? Yes, but I 163 00:11:00.090 --> 00:11:04.320 have good friends who work in industries where all this stuff like it 164 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.600 still doesn't happen, they still not even do they get their content, they 165 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.640 don't even have content to gate, they only have a lead for them, like they 166 00:11:10.650 --> 00:11:13.650 have a contact us page that's as good as it gets, there's no call to action, 167 00:11:13.650 --> 00:11:17.610 I mean, so when we start talking about predictions, I'm thinking along the 168 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:22.720 lines of, okay, what's gonna be popular over the next year versus like what are 169 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:26.690 people actually going to be doing like across the broad spectrum of the market? 170 00:11:26.690 --> 00:11:30.260 Because it's just, it's impossible to say one thing. But I think what we're 171 00:11:30.260 --> 00:11:37.540 going to see is a surge of creative one off B two B marketing campaigns as 172 00:11:37.540 --> 00:11:41.890 opposed to the stale ongoing promotional vehicles, like your typical 173 00:11:41.900 --> 00:11:46.640 newsletter webinar series, like the stuff that gets so old and we consider 174 00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:51.480 tried and true in some ways, but like it's start to kind of, it's starting to 175 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:55.630 taper off in its popularity. But the reason I think that it's going to be 176 00:11:55.630 --> 00:11:59.280 more popular to have these creative one off campaigns is because they're 177 00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:03.820 getting enough attention on linkedin that the executives at the top level 178 00:12:03.830 --> 00:12:08.770 who have the budget are gonna say, hey, why aren't we on Tiktok, Hey, why 179 00:12:08.770 --> 00:12:11.320 aren't we doing something like this? And dropping a link to a video they 180 00:12:11.330 --> 00:12:14.700 really like, that's the kind of stuff we're gonna see more and more. And so 181 00:12:14.710 --> 00:12:17.700 we're actually gonna be incentivized as B two B marketing leaders to go and do 182 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:20.570 that, which is the thing we probably wanted to do since we first saw the 183 00:12:20.570 --> 00:12:24.000 first clever video from one of our favorite influencers on linkedin, right? 184 00:12:24.010 --> 00:12:26.840 But we've been begging for it and nobody's really hearing our cries, I 185 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.460 think we're gonna start to get it from the top down now, instead of us having 186 00:12:30.460 --> 00:12:33.880 to come from the bottom up the way I heard it put yesterday in a 187 00:12:33.880 --> 00:12:38.290 conversation I was having is that in B two B, we've been looking at our cousin 188 00:12:38.300 --> 00:12:42.370 over in B two C and feeling really jealous and now is the move where it's 189 00:12:42.370 --> 00:12:46.910 like, no, this is our time and I totally agree. I think we're gonna see 190 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:53.400 that sort of evolution and B to B where people realize the power in that sort 191 00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:57.250 of marketing where it's just this powerful, like you said, maybe it's a 192 00:12:57.250 --> 00:13:00.330 one off campaign, but something that moves us away from the stale, this is 193 00:13:00.330 --> 00:13:06.780 what tried and true everyone's doing to something new and fresh rex being over 194 00:13:06.780 --> 00:13:10.960 marketing. What excites you the most about that move? I mean, my favorite 195 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.560 part about it is that it requires that people determine whether they want 196 00:13:15.140 --> 00:13:19.870 quick attention or they want affinity. I learned that that phrasing from J 197 00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:24.580 Kenzo because the difference is if you want eyeballs right now, it's the same 198 00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:29.280 thing. Like no matter how clever your pitches you're still producing content 199 00:13:29.280 --> 00:13:33.280 that is leading to something that like it's a mismatch of expectations, You 200 00:13:33.280 --> 00:13:36.720 watch this really funny video, you read a really great, you know meme that 201 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.800 somebody puts out from their corporate page and then you go to their website 202 00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:43.850 and it's boring crap, right? But if you want affinity you have to think about 203 00:13:43.850 --> 00:13:47.420 who your brand is. And then the creativity is applying not just what's 204 00:13:47.420 --> 00:13:51.000 hot, but what's hot and what relates and is relevant to our audience and 205 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.960 what relates and is relevant to our brand in a way that only we can say we 206 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:57.270 talked about commodity content before and I think this is the key, it's 207 00:13:57.270 --> 00:14:02.190 exciting to me because we want to stand out and everybody says they want to 208 00:14:02.190 --> 00:14:05.630 stand out, but we really think that there's going to only be a few 209 00:14:05.630 --> 00:14:08.790 companies that are willing to combine all that effort together and make those 210 00:14:08.790 --> 00:14:11.530 campaigns a real success. They're gonna get a lot of companies are going to 211 00:14:11.530 --> 00:14:15.000 find that they do these really cool campaigns and they spend a lot of time 212 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.230 and money and effort. They get a lot of eyeballs and it's a flash in the pan 213 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.810 and nobody sticks, nobody stays around and they come to your website and still 214 00:14:21.810 --> 00:14:25.000 the same amount of people are converting Right, still that 3-10% of 215 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.690 her in the buying window, that's it. Nothing special about it. So instead 216 00:14:29.690 --> 00:14:32.720 they're putting out those boring promotional vehicles, you know, they've 217 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.500 got those newsletters, they've got those kind of stand by things that 218 00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:38.510 people can opt into, fewer people are opting into those, we've got more 219 00:14:38.510 --> 00:14:41.460 control from Apple and google and everybody filtering out all that 220 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:44.960 content anyway, so I think that's that's where we're headed and it's just 221 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.800 gonna make the brands that are willing to do the hard work of combining what's 222 00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:52.050 popular with what actually resonates with their audience from their brand, 223 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:55.800 that's going to make them stand out much more clearly. I was thinking this 224 00:14:55.800 --> 00:14:58.760 exact same thing, I was like, Brexit feels kind of like a cheat code 225 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.560 whenever you think about predictions because there are brands doing this. I 226 00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:08.300 mean the way metadata executed that virtual event was super smart. I mean 227 00:15:08.310 --> 00:15:11.720 they promoted that thing for like three or four months and really creative ways 228 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:14.460 leading up to that event and they got a lot of people show up to it and a lot 229 00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:17.800 of people talking about them that otherwise never would have. You're 230 00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:23.130 seeing folks like Todd Klaus sort of find labs, do these hilarious sketches 231 00:15:23.140 --> 00:15:28.610 on Tiktok videos that are performing like crazy on linkedin. Dave your 232 00:15:28.610 --> 00:15:32.510 heart's been doing this stuff for a while marketing millennials, Daniel 233 00:15:32.510 --> 00:15:37.660 Murray has been doing this stuff for a year, year and a half now. And so it's 234 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.740 exactly like what you said, these senior level executives can't get on 235 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:46.320 linkedin without seeing this stuff and they're not stupid. So they're going to 236 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:48.790 be talking to the marketing team's about why the heck are we not trying to 237 00:15:48.790 --> 00:15:53.980 do this, the game will be, can you sustain it? And so what I love so much 238 00:15:53.980 --> 00:15:59.030 about what we're doing, we've created a role for the creator inside of our 239 00:15:59.030 --> 00:16:04.760 marketing team and Emily Emily brady, formerly cabrito is playing that role 240 00:16:04.760 --> 00:16:09.830 for us. So not only is she leading our evangelist program and helping coach 241 00:16:09.830 --> 00:16:14.640 and facilitate content creation across 15 or 20 different people on our team 242 00:16:14.640 --> 00:16:19.050 on linkedin, she's also going to be overseeing these creative campaigns 243 00:16:19.050 --> 00:16:21.850 that we're trying to do every month. I'm super excited about the one, I'm 244 00:16:21.850 --> 00:16:27.760 actually filming a gift for one of them later today and it's gonna be a blast. 245 00:16:27.760 --> 00:16:31.950 But but this is a lot of thought that's going into these. I mean, we're we're 246 00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:36.020 thinking about these campaigns weeks and weeks in advance and we're trying 247 00:16:36.020 --> 00:16:39.830 to execute them consistently at least once a month knowing that if we can 248 00:16:39.830 --> 00:16:44.320 make a big splash once a month on linkedin, in addition to the other 249 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:48.000 content that we're creating across our team, it's going to increase our 250 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.890 visibility in front of the people that we want to know who we are. I have an 251 00:16:51.890 --> 00:16:55.540 episode coming up where I'm going to talk to Emily about some of what she's 252 00:16:55.550 --> 00:17:01.050 learning and her world. She's doing some Tiktok stuff for us as well and 253 00:17:01.050 --> 00:17:05.770 we're gonna talk all about that and her findings so far and the questions she's 254 00:17:05.770 --> 00:17:09.660 asking, which again, we're to talk a lot about this on B two B growth, but 255 00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:13.210 we want to learn the mindset that we need, right? So it's not just, here's 256 00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:16.670 the solutions Emily's found she's asking a lot of really intriguing 257 00:17:16.670 --> 00:17:20.040 questions right now because she's iterating and that's the perfect time 258 00:17:20.040 --> 00:17:23.790 to catch somebody and start asking them questions because they are just going 259 00:17:23.790 --> 00:17:27.599 internally and you can tell Emily's in that space and I love it. So rex, 260 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:32.220 that's a great one. It is a cheat code, but that's okay. It's still counts. It 261 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:35.040 is definitely a good prediction James. Let's go back to you man, what's your 262 00:17:35.040 --> 00:17:41.310 second prediction moving forward into the next 11 months? I think that you're 263 00:17:41.310 --> 00:17:45.670 gonna start seeing progressive brands. So the metadata of the world, the 264 00:17:45.670 --> 00:17:49.350 refined labs already seeing it to a certain extent. But I think you're 265 00:17:49.350 --> 00:17:53.250 gonna be seeing progressive brands, start developing unique premises or 266 00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:58.480 hooks, like the Gerhard calls them for each of their content channels. So the 267 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.250 hook for someone's newsletter, The reason you're going to subscribe to 268 00:18:02.250 --> 00:18:05.210 that newsletter is going to be different than the reason you're going 269 00:18:05.210 --> 00:18:08.260 to follow them on linkedin or the reason you're going to follow them on 270 00:18:08.260 --> 00:18:13.420 Tiktok. So you're starting to see like panda doc and chili piper, They're 271 00:18:13.420 --> 00:18:19.370 using Tiktok very much as a recruiting tool. So when you are watching their 272 00:18:19.370 --> 00:18:23.350 stuff, it's like, it's fun. It's silly. It's Goofy, but it's a lot of, it's, 273 00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:27.920 it's showing off their culture. They clearly are using a channel for a 274 00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:31.270 different purpose than what they're using. There are other channels for now. 275 00:18:31.270 --> 00:18:36.310 I don't think that they fully, really fleshed out and refined a premise or a 276 00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:39.920 hook there. But I think you're going to start seeing that one thing that, that 277 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.460 we're thinking about doing at the media company that I started last year, Young 278 00:18:43.460 --> 00:18:47.750 married christian is thinking about our email newsletter as a completely 279 00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:52.340 separate hook. So the hook for our emails being created date nights. If 280 00:18:52.340 --> 00:18:56.580 you want to create a date night emailed to your inbox once a week, sign up for 281 00:18:56.580 --> 00:19:00.270 our newsletter. But the reason you're going to follow us on instagram is 282 00:19:00.270 --> 00:19:04.160 completely different. We're asking really intriguing chris questions about 283 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.920 what it means to be a young married christian in our instagram stories and 284 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.620 then we're sharing the answers of the instagram DM replies that we're getting 285 00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:17.310 with the rest of our followers in that story. So it's a reason the reason that 286 00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:20.420 you're consuming our stuff on instagram is different than the reason that you 287 00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:24.710 would be signing up for our email list and I think we have to do the work of 288 00:19:24.710 --> 00:19:29.820 developing those hooks and premises at a content channel level as opposed to 289 00:19:29.820 --> 00:19:34.760 just thinking about it as one thing. So the reason you subscribe to my podcast 290 00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:38.060 very different than the reason you're going to get on my email list. It can't 291 00:19:38.060 --> 00:19:41.300 just be, hey, get on my email list so that we can send you updates about the 292 00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:45.350 podcast and doesn't work anymore. Sorry, I can just subscribe to your podcast 293 00:19:45.350 --> 00:19:48.130 wherever I listen to podcasts and that's how I'm going to find out your 294 00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:53.480 podcast dropped. I think we've gotten lazy and we lack creativity in terms of 295 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.220 premise development with our content channels and I think you're gonna start 296 00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:57.160 to see that change. 297 00:19:58.340 --> 00:20:04.760 Hey everybody Olivia here as a member of the Sweet fish sales team, I wanted 298 00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:09.490 to take a second and share something that makes us insanely more efficient. 299 00:20:09.500 --> 00:20:15.340 Our team uses lead I. Q. So for those of you who are in sales or sales ops, 300 00:20:15.340 --> 00:20:19.650 let me give you some context. You know how long gathering contact data can 301 00:20:19.650 --> 00:20:25.710 take so long and with lead I. Q. What once took us four hours to do now. It 302 00:20:25.710 --> 00:20:31.310 takes us just one that is 75% more efficient. We are so much quicker with 303 00:20:31.310 --> 00:20:36.090 outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 304 00:20:36.100 --> 00:20:40.950 I suggest you guys check it out as well, You can find them at least I Q dot com. 305 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.770 That's L E A D I Q dot com already. 306 00:20:47.070 --> 00:20:51.080 Well we got sold right? We got sold on this idea that if I create one piece of 307 00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:55.010 content, it becomes 20 pieces of content, there is some good there. But 308 00:20:55.010 --> 00:20:59.500 the reality is that really stale because people consumed the content 309 00:20:59.510 --> 00:21:04.480 over here, they don't need it 20 other times over here. So yeah, rex what are 310 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.300 your thoughts? Yeah, I want to speak to that point that you just read a benji 311 00:21:08.300 --> 00:21:12.010 about like content splitting off into other forms of content and a lot of 312 00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:15.730 times the reason that I think about the value of that content is not 313 00:21:15.730 --> 00:21:19.410 necessarily like it, it depends on where you want to go with it. You can 314 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:22.570 split off content. So let's say we take a podcast episode and create a micro 315 00:21:22.570 --> 00:21:28.240 video. If I craft that for linkedin and I have a compelling question in it or 316 00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:31.550 I'm, I'm pointing out something that's going to be powerful enough that I 317 00:21:31.550 --> 00:21:35.140 expect comments and there's gonna be a great conversation. That's okay. Like 318 00:21:35.140 --> 00:21:38.260 that fits whatever my hook is on linkedin. If my hook is like, hey, 319 00:21:38.260 --> 00:21:40.930 we're gonna ask really compelling questions about what it is to be a B 320 00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:43.780 two B marketer, right? And like if I'm pulling that from the podcast episode, 321 00:21:43.780 --> 00:21:48.660 Fantastic, That'll be fit otherwise. I can also use that channel and say, hey, 322 00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:52.210 this is a micro video from my episode. Like check out the full length if this 323 00:21:52.210 --> 00:21:56.420 seems appealing. But that is, is decreasing in popularity I would say is 324 00:21:56.420 --> 00:22:00.100 decreasing in how many conversions you're gonna get from finding it on 325 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:04.280 another channel to going back to that original channel and consuming that 326 00:22:04.280 --> 00:22:08.620 content. It'll work. Yeah, there's, there's still friction there. It'll 327 00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:13.540 work in quotations. Yeah, I don't think many people do that in the sense that 328 00:22:13.540 --> 00:22:16.610 maybe someone will go look it up or maybe someone will recognize that when 329 00:22:16.610 --> 00:22:20.180 they're scrolling through marketing podcast, but like most likely they're 330 00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:23.990 finding the things they want either directly from the brands that they want 331 00:22:23.990 --> 00:22:26.090 because they've been following them for years and like anything they produce, 332 00:22:26.090 --> 00:22:29.990 I'll go follow or they're searching and whatever is optimized in their feed, 333 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:33.540 they're going to go find it on that channel specifically. So like there's, 334 00:22:33.540 --> 00:22:37.260 there's a fine line and there's like certain purposes that you can have for 335 00:22:37.260 --> 00:22:40.190 repurposing content. But yeah, I think the value of that is decreasing over 336 00:22:40.190 --> 00:22:46.470 time into James's point. I want to know what to expect from a brand in every 337 00:22:46.470 --> 00:22:50.590 channel. I engage with them. Like I want to know what's coming. So I can 338 00:22:50.590 --> 00:22:54.590 say yes, every time this hits my inbox, every time I see that update on 339 00:22:54.590 --> 00:22:58.640 linkedin, like I want to stop my scroll, I want to open that email and I need to 340 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:02.230 know what's coming because I've got decision fatigue. I'm constantly 341 00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:05.320 evaluating a million things and it's gotten harder with, I'll say covid the 342 00:23:05.320 --> 00:23:09.930 C word, but it's been terrible because we also have to decide how to deal with 343 00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:12.050 like the updates coming from the school's about whether our kids are 344 00:23:12.050 --> 00:23:14.800 gonna be safe still and like all the updates come from the CDC and the news 345 00:23:14.800 --> 00:23:17.850 coming out. Like we, there's so much decision fatigue and information, 346 00:23:17.850 --> 00:23:21.870 fatigue. I just want to know what to expect and I'm going to opt into that 347 00:23:21.870 --> 00:23:24.210 I'm gonna stay opted, I'm not gonna opt out because I know what to expect and 348 00:23:24.210 --> 00:23:26.750 I'm okay with that. I will, I want the value of the thing that they're 349 00:23:26.750 --> 00:23:29.830 promising me and I don't want that value to change over time. I'm good 350 00:23:29.830 --> 00:23:32.690 with it. I want to, I want to stay engaged there. So I think James is 351 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:35.670 absolutely right. We're gonna see more and more of those brands creating those 352 00:23:35.670 --> 00:23:40.410 hooks, making it really compelling and consistent. I think that second thing 353 00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:44.860 consistent is so important there. Mm hmm. It feels like when you have four 354 00:23:44.860 --> 00:23:47.990 runners right there testing things, they're trying things. People that are 355 00:23:47.990 --> 00:23:50.960 really like these progressive brands are doing things right now and they're 356 00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:54.360 they're tweaking their models and they're trying to get it all situated, 357 00:23:54.370 --> 00:23:57.800 they'll start to become very excellent at what they do and then there will be 358 00:23:57.800 --> 00:24:01.770 the early adopters that are right behind who, there will be some good in 359 00:24:01.770 --> 00:24:06.080 there. But there will also start to be some like they don't fully get it right. 360 00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:09.300 Like there's some mishaps and some missteps. I wonder what you guys 361 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:16.400 predict will be like the pitfalls of this model. I I'm not too scared about 362 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:22.120 the pitfalls of trying to do this. I don't think anybody young gang was not 363 00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:25.960 great at this. I'm sure if you go back and read some of the first articles 364 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:29.610 from the gangs lab stuff that they do on linkedin. I'm sure they weren't 365 00:24:29.610 --> 00:24:33.820 nearly as great as the articles that they're putting out today and that's no 366 00:24:33.830 --> 00:24:38.730 shade on chris or lob, he's freaking, he's a freaking genius and helped set 367 00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:43.150 up devin read to do what they're doing at gang today. That's just the game. 368 00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:47.900 Like we're way better at podcasting today than we were six years ago. And 369 00:24:47.900 --> 00:24:52.160 so I think when it comes to flexing these, these creative muscles and 370 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.800 really trying to get good at premises development, really trying to get good 371 00:24:55.800 --> 00:25:01.240 at at building out creative campaigns and building concepts and ideas. You're 372 00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:05.330 not going to be good at it at 1st. And, and so fortunately the way the 373 00:25:05.330 --> 00:25:09.150 algorithms work on social, if something sucks, very few people see it at least 374 00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:12.810 organically. And you would hope that people would have the sense to go, 375 00:25:12.820 --> 00:25:16.390 let's see if this pops organically before we start throwing hundreds of 376 00:25:16.390 --> 00:25:19.900 thousands of dollars behind it and paid media think chris walker would probably 377 00:25:19.900 --> 00:25:23.800 argue that most people don't have that kind of common sense, but I would hope 378 00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:27.510 that the folks listening to this would think, hey, let's test this organically. 379 00:25:27.520 --> 00:25:30.550 If this doesn't fly organically, we're certainly not going to dump a lot of 380 00:25:30.550 --> 00:25:34.530 money and paid media to amplify it. But that's, that's the beauty of social 381 00:25:34.530 --> 00:25:38.520 platforms as they allow us to see what's gonna fly like IDa post earlier 382 00:25:38.520 --> 00:25:43.360 this week that I thought was gonna hit and it just didn't and so the beautiful 383 00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:49.500 part of that is very few people saw it. So it's, it's not, Yeah, I'm not, it's 384 00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:53.250 gonna get buried in the feed. It'll get buried in my activity. Nobody will ever 385 00:25:53.250 --> 00:25:58.090 see it. And I'm moving on to the next one today. So that's my take. I think 386 00:25:58.090 --> 00:26:02.520 the risk here speaking to someone who has reported to a higher up in 387 00:26:02.520 --> 00:26:06.160 marketing cause I think James you have very ownership mentality, which I love 388 00:26:06.540 --> 00:26:11.520 as someone who has had to report the risk I would run is that I put all my 389 00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:15.660 eggs in the basket and I picked the wrong basket in terms of the, the hook 390 00:26:15.670 --> 00:26:19.460 for a channel, right? The risk I run is that I say, hey, we're going all in on 391 00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:22.650 this newsletter about this thing and we spend a bunch of time and resources 392 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:26.620 front end. We don't test like James is talking about and we're like crap. I 393 00:26:26.620 --> 00:26:30.680 need to go defend this to my boss and then I say, okay boss. Like this is why 394 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.730 it's not performing yet. You've just gotta have faith and then hopefully 395 00:26:33.730 --> 00:26:37.160 I've got a new job by the time she realizes that it didn't work right? 396 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:42.280 Like that's, that's the risk I run is that I pick the wrong horse to back and 397 00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:45.660 I defend it too closely. I don't admit failure. I don't say, you know what? 398 00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:48.620 This just didn't seem like the hook. We're not just gonna let this one slide 399 00:26:48.620 --> 00:26:51.320 and try a new one. We're not going to go back to our audience and try and get 400 00:26:51.320 --> 00:26:54.970 some feedback as to why this didn't resonate with them and continue to like 401 00:26:54.970 --> 00:26:59.150 kind of stick and move right. It's okay to say that we missed on our first 402 00:26:59.150 --> 00:27:02.190 premise or second premise or third premise on the channel, Like you can do 403 00:27:02.190 --> 00:27:06.680 that, that's okay. But defending that to the higher ups, it really depends on 404 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:09.330 the culture you have in your company. If you have a culture of like no 405 00:27:09.330 --> 00:27:13.120 failure is acceptable or failure is learning keep growing, which I imagine 406 00:27:13.120 --> 00:27:15.240 is, you know, the kind of culture you have at a company like gong where you 407 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:19.720 see them continue to improve on their hooks and their channels. I mean 408 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.220 there's just, there's risk for the marketer in the middle, I'll say that's 409 00:27:23.230 --> 00:27:28.100 my thought to is I guess another distraction was the word that came to 410 00:27:28.100 --> 00:27:32.160 my mind because you think about people that aren't doing great on a lot of 411 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.020 channels, they're just doing okay work and then you throw in, hey, now think 412 00:27:36.020 --> 00:27:39.030 of a different premise and a different hook for all these channels and I'm 413 00:27:39.030 --> 00:27:42.900 like, yeah, you're gonna see a lot of maybe commodity content now, we have 414 00:27:42.900 --> 00:27:46.790 all these different streams of it and the hooks aren't fully developed and it 415 00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:51.410 adds extra pressure to a marketing team. So like I totally agree. We if we 416 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:56.380 iterate and we continue to like lock in and we test and then, you know, you get 417 00:27:56.380 --> 00:28:00.110 your, you get it to an optimal space. That's one thing. But I, I see 418 00:28:00.110 --> 00:28:05.430 potential for distraction where I think they're just has to be like James is 419 00:28:05.430 --> 00:28:09.960 saying if, if you actually test it and you and you optimize it over time, this 420 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:13.050 is the way forward. But there are some potential pitfalls from a marketing 421 00:28:13.050 --> 00:28:16.670 standpoint where I'm like, it'll be interesting to see not the gongs of the 422 00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:20.770 world, but like those that are following in their footsteps again. I I 423 00:28:20.770 --> 00:28:24.370 was really careful whenever I was writing this down, we're going back and 424 00:28:24.370 --> 00:28:27.650 forth on this and slack was really careful to say that you're going to see 425 00:28:27.650 --> 00:28:31.470 progressive brands do. Exactly. This is not, I mean speaking to what rex was 426 00:28:31.470 --> 00:28:35.290 speaking to you earlier, most companies are not going to be doing this. They 427 00:28:35.290 --> 00:28:38.830 can't nail one premise for one channel to save their freaking life and they're 428 00:28:38.830 --> 00:28:42.900 just putting out a bunch of crap, but the folks that get it the metadata of 429 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:45.840 the world, the chili pipers of the world, the panda docks of the world, 430 00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:49.970 like the refined labs of the world. They get it, they're progressive, 431 00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:55.190 they're on it, they're forward thinking and they can see that like holy crap 432 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:59.520 gangs newsletter because they're using data from their own product and then 433 00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:03.710 putting out these really, really helpful data backed articles based on 434 00:29:03.710 --> 00:29:08.080 the call recordings from their own platform. That's a really smart hook, 435 00:29:08.090 --> 00:29:13.570 what could we do with data from our product that would produce content like 436 00:29:13.570 --> 00:29:18.820 that and then realizing that it's going to be a different play on Tiktok or a 437 00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:22.670 different play on twitter. But anyway, who knows? We're going to see if it 438 00:29:22.670 --> 00:29:26.810 plays out that way. But I'm excited to see it because I think we're 439 00:29:26.810 --> 00:29:31.410 progressively seeing more and more creative seep into B two B marketing 440 00:29:31.410 --> 00:29:35.550 land and I'm here for it because this, this boring crap needs to go and 441 00:29:35.550 --> 00:29:38.560 progressive brands doing, it's so fun to watch because they're going to do it 442 00:29:38.560 --> 00:29:42.580 super well. So I don't see a lot of what, what, what rex and I are talking 443 00:29:42.580 --> 00:29:44.990 about isn't gonna happen at the brands you just mentioned, they're just going 444 00:29:44.990 --> 00:29:47.990 to be fun to watch and they're going to do it really well. And that's super 445 00:29:47.990 --> 00:29:51.960 exciting and there's a lot we can learn from it. So, and I think being a 446 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.020 bootstrapped, I mean for those listening, they're like, oh, but we 447 00:29:55.020 --> 00:29:59.250 don't have gone dollars. God neither do we. I mean, we're at the last year we 448 00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:02.500 did 2.5 million in revenue this year, we're trying to do 10 million in 449 00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:05.880 revenue, but we were doing a lot of this stuff, we're doing the micro 450 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.680 community stuff. We were doing the create like we had a dedicated person 451 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:13.470 for a linkedin evangelism program last year as a $2.5 million bootstrapped 452 00:30:13.470 --> 00:30:18.220 service business. So to think that you need a lot of cash to be able to 453 00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:22.640 execute on this, I think it is, it's just faulty thinking. I mean you can, 454 00:30:22.650 --> 00:30:27.110 you can do this stuff in a lean way, in a way, in a way that still packs a 455 00:30:27.110 --> 00:30:32.650 punch. I mean there are arguably tens of thousands, if not hundreds of 456 00:30:32.650 --> 00:30:36.400 thousands of people that know that sweet fish produces podcasts for B two 457 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:41.090 B brands because of our activity on linkedin and that is one full time hire, 458 00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:45.190 helping 15 people across our team be really active on linkedin on a 459 00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:49.320 consistent basis. And that's not crazy for a lot of companies. Even if you're 460 00:30:49.320 --> 00:30:55.940 not this unicorn gong or sales loft or any, you know, terminus these types of 461 00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:59.210 companies, you don't, you don't need to be at that level of funding to be able 462 00:30:59.210 --> 00:31:02.840 to execute a lot of that stuff. Yeah. Innovation thrives with the budget. 463 00:31:02.850 --> 00:31:07.330 That's, I mean, if you have limitless dollars then you can just buy people's 464 00:31:07.330 --> 00:31:11.270 eyeballs. Like if you have a budget, you've got to think strategically and 465 00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:15.040 that's what I love about sweet fish. So alright, rex, let's uh let's take it 466 00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:18.040 home here, give us your last prediction. We've been talking a lot about 467 00:31:18.040 --> 00:31:22.240 creativity and I think this, this falls in line with where we need to go from a 468 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:27.250 talent perspective. I think we're going to see more digital creators hired into 469 00:31:27.250 --> 00:31:30.970 more companies directly. So one, like actually hiring full time content 470 00:31:30.970 --> 00:31:35.220 creators and as contractors or through sponsorships. So I'll break that down. 471 00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:39.190 I think the digital creators are the people who get it without needing to be 472 00:31:39.190 --> 00:31:43.860 told to go get it to learn how to do it like they want to and they see it and 473 00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:46.070 they're catching the trends and they're paying attention and they're trying 474 00:31:46.070 --> 00:31:49.880 stuff constantly and they're building something interesting. Even if they 475 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.630 have to tweak it all along the way. Like they do that as a part of who they 476 00:31:52.630 --> 00:31:55.890 are. A lot of them are going to be the digital natives, right? People who were 477 00:31:55.890 --> 00:31:59.600 born using the screen from a very young age, like being very familiar with 478 00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:03.730 technology. Some of them are not, There are creators out there who were not, 479 00:32:03.740 --> 00:32:08.080 you know, born Post 1990 Right? There's, there's people who are creating amazing 480 00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:11.160 content. A lot of them are gonna be those, those digital natives though. 481 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.860 And I think we need to tap into that because trying to imitate that with 482 00:32:15.860 --> 00:32:20.510 corporate marketing work is impossible. It's not difficult. I think it is 483 00:32:20.510 --> 00:32:24.220 straight up impossible. Yeah. I think you have to get the people who have the 484 00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:27.490 passion for it and can execute it without someone holding their hand and 485 00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:28.670 telling them what to do 486 00:32:29.740 --> 00:32:34.340 and then you can be successful with it versus getting someone who is very 487 00:32:34.340 --> 00:32:38.280 trained up in another skill set and having to guide them along the way as a 488 00:32:38.280 --> 00:32:42.140 leader and coach them and like where are you coaching from what you're not 489 00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:45.570 standing on the shore saying, hey come in like I'm here. You're saying, hey 490 00:32:45.570 --> 00:32:48.160 over there. I think it's an island, like you should swim there and your 491 00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:52.380 coaching them on how to get like that's crazy. So I think it's impossible to 492 00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:56.090 lead non digital creators to become digital creator. I think you've got to 493 00:32:56.090 --> 00:32:59.770 find them. So that could be hiring full time, it could be contracting them and 494 00:32:59.770 --> 00:33:02.130 bringing them in as part of your process, which I think is a brilliant 495 00:33:02.130 --> 00:33:05.550 way to tap into that as an initial, like you're not quite ready to do full 496 00:33:05.550 --> 00:33:08.390 time higher and you're still learning what channels to play with and then 497 00:33:08.390 --> 00:33:11.520 sponsorships I think are going to start to become a bigger thing. James talked 498 00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:15.560 about some of those micro communities and like just tapping into the 499 00:33:15.940 --> 00:33:21.820 readiness to listen to that person or that brand or that, you know, page on 500 00:33:21.820 --> 00:33:25.690 linkedin for example, there's the people being creative there and then 501 00:33:25.690 --> 00:33:30.580 how do you approach them and like slip into that audience in a really natural 502 00:33:30.580 --> 00:33:34.090 way and it relies on them helping guide that discussion. Not you saying, hey, I 503 00:33:34.090 --> 00:33:38.240 want to put my logo on that the next meme, just put sweet fish on there. 504 00:33:38.250 --> 00:33:42.390 Like it doesn't work that way and the digital creators will know where it's 505 00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:46.050 going to fit the vibe of their audience and you can't really tell them that. So 506 00:33:46.050 --> 00:33:49.140 I think it's more digital creators owning the control of what happens, and 507 00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:53.010 then you're just tapping into that as a marketing leader. I'm super bullish on 508 00:33:53.010 --> 00:33:57.540 this prediction. I mean, so much so that we're investing $2.5 million in 509 00:33:57.540 --> 00:34:02.920 building a creator studio in Orlando, because I think if we can build a hub 510 00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:07.130 that will attract creators to sweet fish, we're going to build a moat 511 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:10.600 around our business, that's unlike any other mode, we can potentially build 512 00:34:10.610 --> 00:34:15.929 where the access to that kind of talent companies just don't have access to, so 513 00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:19.060 they have to hire a sweet fish to be able to get that level of creator 514 00:34:19.060 --> 00:34:22.340 talent, I think is super exciting. Now, that's not to say that companies can't 515 00:34:22.340 --> 00:34:25.510 go and find their own creators, I just think in reality they're not going to 516 00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:29.350 put in the work to actually do it, Which is crazy to me because creators 517 00:34:29.350 --> 00:34:33.620 should be some of the easiest people to find on the internet. They have massive 518 00:34:33.620 --> 00:34:38.429 audiences already and already I think you already follow them and see what 519 00:34:38.429 --> 00:34:42.020 you guys do that. So, that's an issue because we're talking about digital 520 00:34:42.020 --> 00:34:45.370 natives, and that is one of the breakdowns in the B two B space is 521 00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:49.739 those that aren't are don't know who to follow, but they are out there, yep, 522 00:34:49.750 --> 00:34:53.610 you're exactly, you're spot on with that benji, but I think in my 523 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:58.700 experience with creators, one, they have two skills that I'm just gonna 524 00:34:58.700 --> 00:35:02.410 keep on harping on. I'm sure I've probably talked about it on the show 525 00:35:02.410 --> 00:35:07.630 before, but the two skills that a creator has one, they understand 526 00:35:07.630 --> 00:35:12.940 intuitively human psychology, they understand what is going to actually 527 00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:17.640 make somebody want to engage with this piece of content and they adjust the 528 00:35:17.640 --> 00:35:21.480 content according to that understanding of human psychology. The second thing 529 00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:26.160 they understand is platform nuances. When you talk to somebody who's blowing 530 00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:30.370 up on linkedin, they are not blowing up on linkedin by accident. They're 531 00:35:30.370 --> 00:35:34.210 looking at a bunch of other creators in the space that are in their wheelhouse 532 00:35:34.220 --> 00:35:37.880 and they're dissecting posts and they're figuring out that when you open 533 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.470 up, when you open with this kind of hook, but go to this line next, It 534 00:35:42.470 --> 00:35:46.560 works. They understand that whenever you don't put a link in the status 535 00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:50.930 itself, you put the link in the first comment And you hope that the post is 536 00:35:50.930 --> 00:35:55.310 good enough to keep people engaged on it. Like there there's platform nuances, 537 00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:59.040 like we we hired a young man Christian, we hired somebody that already has 538 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:04.490 200,000 followers on Tiktok It was extremely affordable. And because of 539 00:36:04.490 --> 00:36:08.290 that, within two or three weeks of hiring this person, we have, we've 540 00:36:08.300 --> 00:36:13.040 already had tiktok videos that have over 35,000 views on them because we 541 00:36:13.040 --> 00:36:17.260 hired somebody that's already cracked the code on Tiktok, I don't need to go 542 00:36:17.260 --> 00:36:20.380 and learn Tiktok, I need to hire somebody that's already figured out. 543 00:36:20.390 --> 00:36:24.550 And the upside for companies is that a lot of these creators are not making a 544 00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:29.220 lot of money being a creator, companies know how to monetize. They have 545 00:36:29.220 --> 00:36:32.920 software, they have services, they have all of these things that allow them to 546 00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:38.120 monetize. Creators aren't as strong on the monetization front. They're great 547 00:36:38.130 --> 00:36:43.030 at the audience building stuff. Companies suck at audience building and 548 00:36:43.030 --> 00:36:47.490 they're fantastic at monetization. There's, there's a two way benefit and 549 00:36:47.490 --> 00:36:49.940 whether that's hiring them as contractors, whether it's working with 550 00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:53.550 agencies like Sweet fish to get access to that talent, whether it's bringing 551 00:36:53.550 --> 00:36:58.030 them on full time in house, there's a mutual benefit and companies hiring 552 00:36:58.030 --> 00:37:02.610 creators that, I just think so many companies are sleeping on right now and 553 00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:05.780 hopefully it gives us a competitive advantage in the marketplace because 554 00:37:05.780 --> 00:37:09.200 we're going to gobble up a lot of this talent. Yeah. Nobody listened to what 555 00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:12.400 he just said because we want to keep all that a secret, keep it hush hush 556 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:17.900 guys, if you haven't read who not how go read that book because touching on 557 00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:23.000 the principles right there and that's extremely important. I think it does 558 00:37:23.010 --> 00:37:26.820 bring be to be kind of back to it, a space of what we were talking about 559 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:30.420 before, right with interesting marketing campaigns and the moved of 560 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:33.620 looking at B to see a little bit and like how do we get more creative and 561 00:37:33.630 --> 00:37:37.300 all of that part of our conversation, this flows right in there where I feel 562 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:42.100 like B. Two C. Has easily cracked this code because they're like, we sell this 563 00:37:42.100 --> 00:37:45.100 thing that all the creators already want. B two B. Is looking over there, 564 00:37:45.100 --> 00:37:50.300 like how do we get these creative people to understand what we do and use 565 00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:55.320 their talent and so that is the next evolution, that is my my hot take on 566 00:37:55.320 --> 00:38:01.580 that benji here it is. I don't actually think that a creator needs to 567 00:38:01.580 --> 00:38:06.420 understand all of the nuances of, I mean we've we've had this conversation 568 00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:11.740 internally, like as we bring creators into our model and we're looking at 569 00:38:11.740 --> 00:38:15.520 hiring them as contractors to look at content that we produce for our 570 00:38:15.520 --> 00:38:18.800 customers and figure out how can we slice and dice this content in a lot of 571 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:22.900 different ways. How can a creator help us shape what that creative brief looks 572 00:38:22.900 --> 00:38:26.250 like, We've gone back and forth. Do we need to hire for our shows in 573 00:38:26.250 --> 00:38:30.150 healthcare? Do we need to hire somebody in health care or do we need to just 574 00:38:30.150 --> 00:38:33.770 hire a creator that's already built an audience of 50,000 people or more? 575 00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:37.530 Because if they've built an audience of 50,000 or more, they understand 576 00:38:37.530 --> 00:38:40.850 platform nuances. They understand human psychology and they've proven that in 577 00:38:40.850 --> 00:38:44.180 the audience, they've already built my experience with creators is that they 578 00:38:44.180 --> 00:38:51.180 are incredibly sharp and so you do not need to spend a year telling them about 579 00:38:51.180 --> 00:38:57.200 your product or your industry, you you maybe spend a week or two exposing them 580 00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:01.840 to what you do, who you serve your understanding of your audience and let 581 00:39:01.850 --> 00:39:07.120 them go to town because they are incredibly smart idiots don't have that 582 00:39:07.120 --> 00:39:11.420 kind of understanding of human psychology, idiots don't understand the 583 00:39:11.420 --> 00:39:15.750 nuances of these social platforms and the depth and understanding that they 584 00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:19.480 have and how these platforms work and how they can capitalize on them to get 585 00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:23.180 more reach for their content. Like when you start hearing them talk, I mean it 586 00:39:23.180 --> 00:39:27.340 was only because we interviewed these influencers on young married christian 587 00:39:27.350 --> 00:39:31.220 that I've had the proximity to them that I've had in the last six months. 588 00:39:31.230 --> 00:39:36.120 They're freaking brilliant. And so I don't care if they understand B2B 589 00:39:36.120 --> 00:39:40.770 podcasting, I just want to bring them in and say let's spend a week teaching 590 00:39:40.770 --> 00:39:44.240 them what we do and then let them go to town because what they're going to come 591 00:39:44.240 --> 00:39:49.350 up with is going to be far better than what most marketing teams would come up 592 00:39:49.350 --> 00:39:52.600 with on their own, having all the knowledge in the world about the 593 00:39:52.600 --> 00:39:57.590 industry and what you do. I also think another thing Benji, I think a lot of 594 00:39:57.590 --> 00:40:00.880 marketers have to get out of their own way because I think a lot of marketers 595 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:04.980 pride themselves on actually being good at human psychology and being good to 596 00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:10.430 understand platform nuances and they just don't, like I thought I understood 597 00:40:10.810 --> 00:40:14.340 linkedin until I talked to somebody that's got a million followers on the 598 00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:18.370 platform. And I'm like, nope, I don't understand this platform at all. Like 599 00:40:18.380 --> 00:40:21.850 the things that I'm understanding, like don't put a link in the, in the like 600 00:40:21.860 --> 00:40:27.220 that was like three years ago in sight. Like the stuff that people are like the 601 00:40:27.220 --> 00:40:31.910 people that are really in it and really studying this stuff, they know way more 602 00:40:31.910 --> 00:40:37.280 than the average marketer inside a company. But I hope that marketers can 603 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:42.070 get out of their own way. Kind of let their ego to the side and admit that 604 00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:45.040 there are better people. There are there are people that understand human 605 00:40:45.040 --> 00:40:48.170 psychology better than me. There are people that understand these platform 606 00:40:48.170 --> 00:40:52.640 nuances better than me. And if we don't go and hire them, our brand is going to 607 00:40:52.640 --> 00:40:56.330 pay the price. Mm hmm. Makes you look like a brilliant marketer if you go get 608 00:40:56.330 --> 00:41:00.090 them. So if you need to, if you need that little pat on the back or that 609 00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:04.800 little ego, there's just Countless. There's count. They're everywhere y'all 610 00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:09.060 like from the person that's built 400,000 followers with a knitting 611 00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:13.200 channel on Youtube. Like they are everywhere. Like obviously if you can 612 00:41:13.200 --> 00:41:18.740 find somebody in your niche that's done it and has the industry background and 613 00:41:18.740 --> 00:41:22.180 understanding awesome. That's great. But don't feel limited that if you're 614 00:41:22.180 --> 00:41:26.270 like, oh man, I'm wearing this super niche. Like maritime logistics. There's 615 00:41:26.270 --> 00:41:29.140 nobody doing this. Okay. Get somebody that doesn't know anything about 616 00:41:29.140 --> 00:41:32.500 maritime logistics, I guarantee you in a month, they'll know all they need to 617 00:41:32.500 --> 00:41:36.640 know to make a splash in your industry like you never thought was possible. 618 00:41:37.140 --> 00:41:41.700 Final words on this one. I did not. That was very much pun unintended with 619 00:41:41.700 --> 00:41:45.040 the maritime logistics. It was a sweet fish and maritime logistics. 620 00:41:47.010 --> 00:41:53.250 No, that's it man, I'm seconding all that good. Good. This is such a fun 621 00:41:53.250 --> 00:41:57.460 conversation guys, I'll sum it up here. Rex had two predictions that we're 622 00:41:57.460 --> 00:42:01.380 going to see a surge of creative one off B2B marketing campaigns as opposed 623 00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:06.300 to kind of stale ongoing promotional vehicles. Love that second prediction 624 00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:10.850 from rex was like, subsequently we're gonna see creative talent. So digital 625 00:42:10.850 --> 00:42:14.860 creators hired into more companies, we just talked about that James had to, 626 00:42:14.870 --> 00:42:19.810 we're going to see niche media properties and communities get acquired, 627 00:42:20.100 --> 00:42:23.220 we'll be watching out for that and then his second one was progressive brands 628 00:42:23.220 --> 00:42:26.400 are going to start developing unique premises or hooks for each of their 629 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:30.990 content channels. We would love to hear what you guys are thinking about your 630 00:42:30.990 --> 00:42:35.410 predictions. If you tag B two B growth on linkedin and make a post about it 631 00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:38.830 would be, I'll be sure to, to interact with you over there. You can tag me to 632 00:42:38.830 --> 00:42:43.650 Benji Block on linkedin and we can get the conversation going. Love your guys 633 00:42:43.650 --> 00:42:48.010 predictions, James and rex, Thanks for being on the show today. If you're not 634 00:42:48.010 --> 00:42:51.120 subscribed yet, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Keep 635 00:42:51.130 --> 00:42:54.240 doing work. That matters. And we'll be back with another episode real soon. 636 00:42:54.250 --> 00:42:55.520 Thanks guys for being on the show. 637 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:03.920 Is your buyer A B two B marketer. If so, you should think about sponsoring this 638 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:08.870 podcast. BTB Growth gets downloaded over 130,000 times each month. And our 639 00:43:08.870 --> 00:43:12.690 listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Logan 640 00:43:12.690 --> 00:43:17.430 and email Logan at Sweet Fish Media dot com. Mm hmm.