1334: 3 Key Relationships You Need for Better Case Studies w/ Chantelle Marcelle

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:08.669 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.750 --> 00:00:12.550 I'm joined today by Chantelle morself. She is not only a new linkedin 3 00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:17.309 friends, she's the senior marketing and customer acquisition manager over at Herman Chantel, 4 00:00:17.429 --> 00:00:19.829 welcome to the show. How are you today? I'm good. Thank you 5 00:00:19.870 --> 00:00:22.940 so much, Logan. Awesome. You know she until we've been trying to 6 00:00:23.019 --> 00:00:26.019 get to know our guests a little bit better, and one of the things 7 00:00:26.059 --> 00:00:30.219 you can always learn a little bit more about a person is what is on 8 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:34.619 the home screen of their phone. So either your background, your lock screen 9 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:38.130 or a new APP you've added to your home screen. Tell us a little 10 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:41.490 bit about what's going on there. You know, that is actually a good 11 00:00:41.530 --> 00:00:47.689 question. So this week I've actually been kind of experimenting with a new APP. 12 00:00:48.490 --> 00:00:52.719 So I know everybody's kind of talking about zoom fatigue. There's this new 13 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:56.240 APP chalk. Have you heard of it? So basically it's sort of like 14 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.280 zoom, but only with voice. So it's like a voice community and you 15 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.960 can set up different they're different communities you can join, you can eventually set 16 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.750 up your own. It's kind of still in Beta. So I've joined a 17 00:01:06.909 --> 00:01:11.150 couple of them. There's one that's day to see direct consumer focused. There 18 00:01:11.269 --> 00:01:17.549 was one for a new startup called fast that they hosted this past week. 19 00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:23.340 So it's been pretty fascinating just trying out this new method of communication and connection. 20 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.060 I don't know, with the pandemic it seems like my grow communities are 21 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:30.700 a huge thing. Moving off of social to something more intimate, is something 22 00:01:30.739 --> 00:01:34.930 more focused, and so chalk has been kind of a cool I feel like 23 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:38.969 I'm doing promotion for them right now, but it was just it was really 24 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:42.450 fun and really just something new. That's cool. I I nerd out on 25 00:01:42.569 --> 00:01:48.640 any new APP and extension, that sort of stuff. I'm the one around 26 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.920 our team that's like, oh, this new chrome extension going to roll their 27 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.239 eyes, but that's cool. Will have to link to that in the show 28 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:56.920 notes for the nerds like you and I that are like I want to be 29 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.599 a Beta test. Yes, because I am definitely there. Well, awesome, 30 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.269 Chantel. We're going to be talking about something you posted on Linkedin here 31 00:02:04.390 --> 00:02:08.150 recently about how not to do really bad case studies, how to do them 32 00:02:08.310 --> 00:02:12.710 better. Why is this something that really gets your goat? Why is this 33 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.780 something that really gets you fired up. I think it's just because, as 34 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:20.460 a marketer, and we've probably all been there, you work really hard and 35 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:24.180 you're working with a client and you have a really awesome testimonial, you can't 36 00:02:24.180 --> 00:02:29.740 wait to put it out and then all of a sudden something happens and it 37 00:02:29.900 --> 00:02:34.250 has to be a blind case study. There's no name associated, so it 38 00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:38.409 it kind of then loses a lot of its value. It kind of falls 39 00:02:38.490 --> 00:02:40.770 flat at that point. I think with case studies it's so important that you 40 00:02:40.810 --> 00:02:45.639 have a name and a face and something to attach. That makes it more 41 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:51.439 personal, that makes it resonate with your target customer. And when you don't 42 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:57.159 have that, it's kind of like, well, a person at this company, 43 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.590 at a company, said X Y Z, and it's like a collaborations 44 00:03:00.669 --> 00:03:07.310 manager in the manufacturing sector in seuth Texas, like really, that sounds like 45 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:12.830 administrator amy or this right fire persona that we made up. So if that's 46 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:17.139 one of the common pitfalls to get case studies right is being forced into creating, 47 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:21.699 you know, this blind case study that doesn't have the real attribution to 48 00:03:21.819 --> 00:03:24.580 it. What are some of your tips for getting around that? Because I 49 00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:30.210 think as marketers we understand why we need to not do those and why there's 50 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:32.490 so much less power and we just cut our legs out from under us. 51 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:38.530 But there's got to be a reason why we're seeing these happen and marketers being 52 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:43.240 forced into using a blind case study or none at all. Right, HMM. 53 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.400 You know, I worked for a startup and we had clients that were 54 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:53.639 just really big global brands. It was in the hospitality industry. So an 55 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:55.349 issue that I would run into us I would, I think, jump into 56 00:03:55.430 --> 00:04:00.870 things too quickly. I would jump in at a certain level without double checking 57 00:04:01.110 --> 00:04:06.310 with the contact about all of the different layers that would be involved afterward of 58 00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:12.419 approval. And usually when you're dealing with corporations or large brands, there's just 59 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:15.939 a lot of different people that things have to run through before they get approved. 60 00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:21.060 So I learned that you often have to have that conversation up front at 61 00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:25.569 the start. Hey, you know, could you check with your legal team 62 00:04:25.610 --> 00:04:29.689 or you're marketing, your corporate marketing team or whoever sort of manages that kind 63 00:04:29.730 --> 00:04:32.449 of thing? Could you just do a little bit of Intel and find out 64 00:04:33.089 --> 00:04:36.250 what this will entail before you get so excited that you're just like well, 65 00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:40.160 let me you know, write this and put it out for anybody notices, 66 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:44.319 which I've tried to go that route to and it doesn't really go very well 67 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.040 because eventually you get caught, someone sees it and you have to pull it, 68 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.319 especially when you're using the name of a big brand where they do a 69 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:55.509 lot of monitoring of their their presence online. So I would say have that 70 00:04:55.550 --> 00:04:59.870 conversation up front. Yeah, absolutely. It's you know, in some cases 71 00:04:59.990 --> 00:05:03.550 asked for forgiveness rather than permission, is is good advice. This is not 72 00:05:03.629 --> 00:05:08.339 the case. This is where that is the worst advice. So you mentioned 73 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:15.019 having your contact check with legal, corporate marketing, maybe PR is there anything 74 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:19.019 else that you've found can kind of arm that champion that says yeah, we'll 75 00:05:19.060 --> 00:05:23.490 do a case study, will do a testimonial, because this might be the 76 00:05:23.610 --> 00:05:26.930 only time they've ever raised their hand and said yes, we could do this. 77 00:05:27.290 --> 00:05:30.810 So it's kind of like sellers having to walk their buy or through. 78 00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:33.009 This is how you buy from us, right, you have to walk your 79 00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:36.560 customer through. This is how you deliver a case study for us. Are 80 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.279 there some other things that you can do to set up your champion for success? 81 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.279 Do you think? Yeah, but usually that starts way before you even 82 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.920 contact them. A lot of times I would get on our sales team because 83 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:53.990 that conversation should have been had when the buyers were really excited, before they 84 00:05:53.990 --> 00:05:57.310 actually came on board. Hey, you know, we're going to include this 85 00:05:57.389 --> 00:06:00.910 as part of you know, you're on boarding or something like. You're going 86 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:04.660 to do a bit of PR and a case study or testimonial. So you're 87 00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:11.860 building that into the contract on the front end, before they've already made the 88 00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:15.300 purchase, and there's going to be a lot more discussion and a lot more 89 00:06:15.339 --> 00:06:17.649 back and forth. This way it's in black and white, it's done. 90 00:06:17.649 --> 00:06:21.569 Doesn't need to be a huge discussion. Have you found that with the sales 91 00:06:21.610 --> 00:06:25.529 teams you've worked with, when you go to them and say, Hey, 92 00:06:25.850 --> 00:06:30.050 keep your keep your eyes open for for this, or maybe even use this 93 00:06:30.089 --> 00:06:33.480 as a negotiation tool when they're you know they're asking for something. They're asking 94 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:38.879 for maybe a quicker on boarding or they're asking for, you know, accelerated 95 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:43.079 timeline or whatever the case is. The customers asking for. Where this the 96 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.079 sales team can say, okay, well, I can do that for you. 97 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:48.670 One of the ways that will help us exchange some value there would be 98 00:06:48.990 --> 00:06:53.470 to get an upfront commitment from you guys to do a case study or testimonial 99 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:56.949 as long as we meet X, Y and Z during on boarding? Would 100 00:06:56.949 --> 00:07:00.230 you be willing to do that, as you're now kind of working with the 101 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:03.540 sales team and not necessarily the customer? Are there any GOTCHA's or there any 102 00:07:03.660 --> 00:07:08.459 pushback from the sales team in the way that you should frame it so that 103 00:07:08.899 --> 00:07:13.660 they see this as as a tool in their arsenal and not something else marketing 104 00:07:13.819 --> 00:07:17.170 is asking them to do right, and I mean sometimes it does come across 105 00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:21.810 a little bit wrong. So the sales team is normally really happy to work 106 00:07:21.889 --> 00:07:26.329 with, I think, getting these marketing pieces because in the long run they 107 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:30.160 benefit them. It's extra collateral that they can put into their tool belt when 108 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.079 they're going out to have these conversations. The problem is when you have more 109 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:38.920 of a difficult negotiation or a client that they really want to land, I 110 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.480 think there's a case of them getting usually the sales team is a little bit 111 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:47.829 more hesitant to even present anything extra that's outside of the boundaries because they don't 112 00:07:47.829 --> 00:07:50.629 want to mess up the deal. So, yeah, you're right. are 113 00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:56.509 like positioning it as a benefit for both sides saying, you know, we'll 114 00:07:56.550 --> 00:08:00.019 do this free pr for you. A lot of times that is helped when 115 00:08:00.980 --> 00:08:05.060 we've said will do a lot of the media relations for you, will let 116 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:07.459 you do the interviews. We don't have to be in the spotlight or anything, 117 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:13.250 if you could just mention us or mention the solution that you've chosen, 118 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:18.329 or let us even use the earned media that results from our joint efforts, 119 00:08:18.930 --> 00:08:22.449 if you'll let us use that on our website or even in a pitch deck 120 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:26.439 or something like that. So yeah, I think just making it like we're 121 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.399 doing work for you, we're helping you, we're kind of not asking for 122 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.159 something extra from you. Yeah, that's really good. So I kind of 123 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.559 summarized is three tips from you there for the customer, making sure that they 124 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.309 they run it up the chain, getting involved with sales so that you can 125 00:08:43.389 --> 00:08:48.429 have some of these conversations presale and not just post sale, and then three, 126 00:08:48.549 --> 00:08:52.029 positioning it as a win. And I think the subpoint there also is 127 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:54.950 that it doesn't have to be one size fits all. They might say, 128 00:08:54.269 --> 00:08:58.179 well, we're not willing to do, you know, two and a half 129 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:03.419 minute video testimonial, but we are willing to speak about you guys in this 130 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:07.539 channel or something like that, or just allow this to be said not in 131 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:09.809 a public facing way but in a pitch deck or something like that. So 132 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:13.169 there's kind of there. There's a lot of different ways that you can ask 133 00:09:13.330 --> 00:09:18.850 for that testimonial or case study, based on how it's going to be presented, 134 00:09:18.169 --> 00:09:20.850 what format, who's going to be involved, where's it going to be 135 00:09:20.929 --> 00:09:26.000 disseminated? So think about those nuances, because it doesn't just have to be 136 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.200 a what you do a case study? Yes, you know right, it's 137 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.960 not a binary thing. There's some nuance and we've got approach it with a 138 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.039 little bit of art and science at the same time. Well, I think 139 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.990 those are really three good pieces of advice on getting good case studies. Now 140 00:09:41.230 --> 00:09:45.029 let's shift gears, Chantel, and talk about how do we use them effectively 141 00:09:45.070 --> 00:09:48.830 once we've gotten the okay, everything's kind of in line. Where do you 142 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:56.340 see people go wrong in setting up their customer to actually give them that testimonial 143 00:09:56.460 --> 00:09:58.860 that's going to have the meat on the bones, that that's going to compel 144 00:10:00.100 --> 00:10:05.059 those other future customers to action based on what they see from that current customer 145 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.649 you did the case study with. So my background is in journalism and PR 146 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:13.570 so whenever I approach these I approach them with that journalism mindset. So I 147 00:10:13.809 --> 00:10:18.610 looked at the interview from the perspective of how can I make this newsworthy or 148 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:24.240 what's the news worthy header here? What's the headline here? Why should people 149 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.759 care? Why is this a big deal? So you kind of want to 150 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.039 formulate that in your mind ahead of time and then that'll help you structure questions 151 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.590 that you can use to frame the conversation. Definitely want to prepare the questions 152 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:43.789 for whoever you're speaking with, because you can't go into that interviewer that conversation 153 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:48.070 without being fully prepared. Letting them get prepared in advance, seeing what you 154 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:52.059 want to discuss. A lot of times that can reduce the nerves that can 155 00:10:52.299 --> 00:10:54.580 arise in the situation, and not only their nerves, but the nerves of 156 00:10:54.860 --> 00:10:58.139 whoever else has is doing the gatekeeping for the brand. If they can see 157 00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:01.740 what will be discussed, what'll come out of it, then that'll help get 158 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:07.570 through legal a lot of times. Hey, everybody logan with sweet fish here. 159 00:11:07.730 --> 00:11:11.450 If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know we're 160 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:16.169 big proponents of putting out original, organic content on linked did, but one 161 00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:20.120 thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to easily track 162 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.919 the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I was really excited when I 163 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.240 heard about shield the other day from a connection on, you guessed it, 164 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.480 linked in. Since our team started using shield, I've loved how it's let 165 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:37.350 us easily track and analyze the performance of our linkedin content without having to manually 166 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:41.830 log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generates some dashboards that are incredibly 167 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:46.070 useful to see things like what content has been performing the best and what days 168 00:11:46.110 --> 00:11:50.139 of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views proposed. 169 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:54.220 I'd highly suggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting out content on 170 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:58.340 Linkedin, and if you're not, you should be. It's been a game 171 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:01.769 changer for us. If you go to shield APP DOT AI and check out 172 00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:05.450 the ten day free trial, you can even use our promo code be to 173 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.929 be growth to get a twenty five percent discount. Again, that's shield APP 174 00:12:11.289 --> 00:12:16.399 DOT AI and that Promo Code is be the number to be growth. All 175 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:22.879 one word. All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah, 176 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.919 absolutely. It comes back to the nuance of the situation, right. It's 177 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.029 it's what you're getting out, but it's also how is it being perceived? 178 00:12:30.549 --> 00:12:33.669 Do we kind of have control over what's what's happening here to a reasonable degree? 179 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.549 Can We? Can we expect what's going to come out the other side? 180 00:12:37.950 --> 00:12:41.669 You mentioned something interesting. Their listeners probably know. I've mentioned it a 181 00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:46.379 few times. I was a journalism major in school and I swiftly shifted into 182 00:12:46.419 --> 00:12:50.860 be tob sales selling copiers pretend here, so I'm a little bit removed from 183 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:54.100 my journalism degree. But thinking about that inverted pyramid that we can found in 184 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:58.289 journalism. Right, what is news worthy? And I remember there's four or 185 00:12:58.370 --> 00:13:03.730 five aspects as a journalist that you think about in newsworthiness. Right, proximity. 186 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.129 What are those? Do you do have those in your mind? I'm 187 00:13:07.289 --> 00:13:11.809 forgetting that checklist. Proximity was one, I feel like impact, timeliness, 188 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.879 but I could be totally off the rails here. Are there some other categories 189 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.399 that you think about when it comes to newsworthiness that you pull from your journalism 190 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.919 that ground? Oh Gosh, you really putting me on the spot here. 191 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.549 It's in a bat since I got out of college. Do you know? 192 00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:31.830 I don't really have like a set list of criteria, and you'll find in 193 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:37.549 journalism even now, with like the digital consumption, the inverted pyramid has kind 194 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:43.179 of gotten squished a bit or pulled apart. I usually go in and I 195 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.980 remember I had a professor who said about news and newsworthiness. Sometimes you know 196 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:52.179 it when you see it. I think I'm quoting him correctly there. But 197 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:54.659 I usually just have a gut feeling. You know, you do a lot 198 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:58.129 of reading of the news, a lot of what's going on in the industry, 199 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:03.250 making sure you're really familiar with what's going on in your buyers world so 200 00:14:03.409 --> 00:14:07.370 that you know what'll really make the most impact and what to speak to. 201 00:14:07.850 --> 00:14:11.559 And I think having that sort of that familiarity just where you know that like 202 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.000 the back of your hand, helps you to go into this knowing what you 203 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.639 need to get out of it, what you need to say to make an 204 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.480 impactful for everybody else that you're trying to use the case study with. I 205 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.549 love it. This might be a little bit outdated by it, I did 206 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:31.389 a little quick googling while you were talking and I found from PBS. Anyway, 207 00:14:31.789 --> 00:14:37.549 they have five components of newsworthiness, timeliness, proximity, conflicting controversy, 208 00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:41.580 human interest and relevance. So, for what it's worth, some of those 209 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:43.299 might be a little bit outdated, but I think I had two of them 210 00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:46.980 at least. So anyway, yeah, I just had to do that for 211 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:50.580 my own well, that's because I googled it while you were talking. But 212 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:54.169 let's talk a little bit. You mentioned the questions we're going to ask, 213 00:14:54.289 --> 00:15:00.210 what to look for. Are there some areas here where you see marketing teams 214 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:05.129 get it wrong, either by not asking specific enough questions or they're not asking 215 00:15:05.169 --> 00:15:09.960 questions with the end in mind? What sort of advice do you give for 216 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.200 folks once they've identified okay, there is something here. However, we describe 217 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:18.759 newsworthiness, but how do I get the right nuggets out of this situation in 218 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.190 the questions that I ask? You know, I think it's a balance of 219 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:26.230 telling a story and also getting the right data that you need, making sure 220 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:31.710 that you hits certain metrics, and I've found that when I'm presenting the questions 221 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:37.820 with an equal number of storytelling focus type questions where I'm trying to get that 222 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:41.659 human interest piece, I guess that you spoke about. I also want to 223 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:46.100 present some questions where they can give me some dat and some numbers that only 224 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.529 they would have familiar it you with. So I find that writing out the 225 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:54.570 the metrics questions lets them get that out of the way. On the back 226 00:15:54.570 --> 00:15:58.330 end, let them do some digging there and then a lot of times I'll 227 00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:02.289 schedule a phone interview or some sort of conversation if they'll give me the time 228 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:07.799 to talk over the the more storytelling focus questions where I can talk to them 229 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.000 about okay, tell me you know how you felt about this. What were 230 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.519 some of the emotions you felt when you were facing the challenges you had before 231 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.590 you became a client of ours, and how did you feel during the on 232 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:21.549 boarding? How did you feel during the sales process? You know, what 233 00:16:21.629 --> 00:16:25.590 are some of your future plans with using our solution or what are you excited 234 00:16:25.629 --> 00:16:29.549 about in the future? So those are better questions to have on the phone 235 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:34.139 because you get the you get more of the the actual emotion there, whereas 236 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:37.299 the the data. I normally present those questions and I'm like, could do 237 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:41.259 you go and do the research on this, because when you're having a conversation 238 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:44.299 with someone, they're not just going to know that offhand in most cases, 239 00:16:44.899 --> 00:16:48.009 and they also have to get the approval to release the numbers. So yeah, 240 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:52.169 and again you want to help them and you want to make it easy 241 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:55.769 for them, and something you and I have talked about before is maybe going 242 00:16:56.009 --> 00:17:00.960 to your development or your engineering team or your product aim and having having them 243 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.640 kind of lead the way for you and the champion on the client side to 244 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.200 uncover some of the data that you might be able to ask about right right 245 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.960 and even having a sense of, you know, even before you start speaking 246 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.269 to your customers, having a sense of what sort of data would be good 247 00:17:18.349 --> 00:17:21.430 to know or what sort of data with the customer want to know what sort 248 00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:25.789 of data would be good to include in your sales collateral. Knowing that ahead 249 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:30.500 of time and then figuring out with your development or whatever team could help you 250 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:34.460 research that so that you could start tracking that and figuring out ways to successfully 251 00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:38.980 track that before these conversations start happening, because once you're having the conversations, 252 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:41.859 then it becomes a much bigger left to go back and say, well, 253 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:45.890 is there any way we can find x, Y Z, and then your 254 00:17:45.930 --> 00:17:48.569 Dev team is probably going to flip out on you because it's like, well, 255 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:53.569 that's a huge ask and our platform doesn't work that way or we don't, 256 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:56.490 you know, have access, easy access. Will have to pull someone 257 00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:00.200 off of a project. So having that conversation ahead of time, saying let's 258 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.640 allocate these resources, because this is why this is valuable for us in our 259 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:08.400 customers to know and making sure that you're tracking that ahead of time is really, 260 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.509 really good. And it sounds like a lot of this, shentel comes 261 00:18:14.029 --> 00:18:18.470 down to pitching at the right way, prepping the person who's involved the right 262 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:21.509 way and then executing on that. And so often we just jump to the 263 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:26.589 execution right because we've already talked about engaging the customer, engaging your product team, 264 00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:30.859 engaging your sales team. There's multiple stakeholders and even on the customer side 265 00:18:30.859 --> 00:18:33.059 there's multiple stakeholders. They're right, but it's kind of the same process. 266 00:18:33.099 --> 00:18:37.339 It's letting them know what you're going to need, why you're going to need 267 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:40.779 it and hey, we got to put on our sales had as marketer sometimes 268 00:18:40.819 --> 00:18:44.089 and and do a little bit of selling. And on that note, we've 269 00:18:44.089 --> 00:18:47.130 talked about the customer, the product team and the sales team that you need 270 00:18:47.170 --> 00:18:52.930 to get involved and in leverage that relationship to help you create a successful case 271 00:18:52.970 --> 00:18:56.680 study. I would recommend. oftentimes it's like what data we can we can 272 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:02.440 maybe step into a pitfall here of what data is easy to collect or what 273 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.559 data is the customer saying that you know was interesting to them? I would 274 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.549 think a lot of smart marketers would probably then go to sales and say hey, 275 00:19:10.750 --> 00:19:14.269 in the in the deals that you're not winning, what sort of metrics, 276 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:18.630 what sort of success metrics, are prospects asking for that you're not able 277 00:19:18.750 --> 00:19:22.430 to deliver, so that I can have my ears open for that as we're 278 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:25.579 doing case studies to say well, if we had this, I know three 279 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:29.099 people on the sales team are really going to be pumped right. Absolutely, 280 00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:33.619 and I even ties back to making sure that in your mare tex stack you 281 00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:37.500 have some sort of tool to listen to sales conversation so that you can listen 282 00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:42.130 back to the conversations that are had in different demos or meetings so you know 283 00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:48.170 what sort of data points you'll need for sales collateral or for building messaging. 284 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:52.680 Yeah, absolutely. Well, she and Tel this has been a great conversation. 285 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.200 I love this framework of, you know, walking through what to expect, 286 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.720 why it's important and then executing both with the customer, with your product 287 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.240 team, with sales. If someone listening to this is like man, we 288 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:08.549 really need to up our case study, our testimonial game. Is there one 289 00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:12.509 piece of advice you would give to them to try to get some momentum? 290 00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:15.109 What would be step number one for them? And in all of this, 291 00:20:15.269 --> 00:20:18.589 and maybe it's what you just said, they're listening to more sales calls and 292 00:20:18.670 --> 00:20:22.980 then and then using that to inform your case studies. But any final parting 293 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:27.299 words for listeners today? You know, I think it just if you as 294 00:20:27.339 --> 00:20:30.980 a company are willing to make it a priority and, like we were saying, 295 00:20:32.019 --> 00:20:34.930 it has benefits for every single department in a company. But if you 296 00:20:36.009 --> 00:20:38.890 can get the entire company on board to make it a priority and to allocate 297 00:20:38.970 --> 00:20:44.609 the resources, not just of the marketing team but cross functionally, you know, 298 00:20:44.809 --> 00:20:49.319 whoever can pitch in. I think you'll find it much more successful and 299 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:52.599 as you start doing them, you can sort of build out, like you 300 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.759 were saying, a framework that you can then apply time and time again, 301 00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:00.400 so it becomes much quicker and much smoother to to actually get these done. 302 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.880 I love what you're talking about there. I mean we've talked about these three 303 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.069 key relationships and how to approach it with the customer, with product and with 304 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:14.950 sales, but customer focused content like case studies and testimonials and and customers stories, 305 00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:18.460 and they just have such a big impact throughout the organization. As you 306 00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:22.539 said, they're you know, they help with training and recruiting. This is 307 00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:26.579 the mission we're on, this is what we're delivering out to our customers, 308 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:30.819 this is the story that we're telling as a brand. It's not just in 309 00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:34.250 pacting marketing and I think if you get more buy in there, then when 310 00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:37.410 you have to have those conversations about hey, how can you help me with 311 00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:41.369 this, there's an understanding behind the why of it all and you know, 312 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.690 as Simon Senek always says, start with why. Right was chantel, this 313 00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:49.559 has been a great conversation. I really appreciate you jam and with me on 314 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.960 how to do better case studies. Thank you so much for having me. 315 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.759 Absolutely. If anybody is not yet connected with you, I'm, I imagine, 316 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.400 Linkedin as the best place to stay connected with you or pee you with 317 00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:04.470 follow up questions. Right, absolutely awesome. Well, Chantel, will link 318 00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:08.230 to your linkedin profile in the show notes make it easy for listeners to connect 319 00:22:08.230 --> 00:22:11.950 with you there. Thank you again for taking some time away from your busy 320 00:22:11.990 --> 00:22:15.740 schedule and the family and all of that to record with me today. I 321 00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:22.500 really appreciate it. Thank you so much. This is great. It's sweetfish. 322 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:26.539 We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the Internet for 323 00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:30.369 every job, function and industry on the planet. For the BB marketing industry, 324 00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:33.809 this show is how we're executing on that mission. If you know a 325 00:22:33.890 --> 00:22:37.730 marketing leader that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a 326 00:22:37.809 --> 00:22:41.329 text message. Don't call me because I donateswer unknown numbers, but text me 327 00:22:41.369 --> 00:22:45.039 at four hundred seven for and I know three D and Thirty two eight. 328 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.440 Just shoot me their name, maybe a link to their linkedin profile, and 329 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.400 I'd love to check them out to see if we can get them on the 330 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:52.720 show. Thanks a lot.