Sept. 11, 2020

1331: Why It's Time to Target CEO's with Your Cold Outreach (& How to Do It Right) w/ Simon Leslie

In this episode we talk to Simon Leslie, Founder & CEO at Ink.

If you like this episode, you'll probably also love...

...this past episode:

A 5 Step Follow Up Process to Engage Your LinkedIn Audience with Matt Heinz

....and Simon's book:

There is no F in Sales


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:08.589 Welcome back to BEDB growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. I'm 2 00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:12.269 joined today by Simon Leslie. He's the founder and CEO over at ink. 3 00:00:12.509 --> 00:00:15.910 Simon, how are you doing today besides, you know, enduring some swelteringly 4 00:00:15.990 --> 00:00:20.109 hot weather in the London area. Right everybody thinks it just reigns a miserably 5 00:00:20.109 --> 00:00:26.820 in London, but today you've got a hot, sweaty and frustrated Simon Leslie. 6 00:00:27.739 --> 00:00:30.460 All right, well, we're going to be talking about something that frustrates 7 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:33.460 you. I know it frustrates a lot of the people that I talk to, 8 00:00:33.500 --> 00:00:36.329 a lot of my connections on Linkedin and a lot of my friends. 9 00:00:36.649 --> 00:00:41.090 They get these linkedin messages and it's just like what thought has has someone put 10 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:44.929 into this? But we're not just going to rant about the way things shouldn't 11 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:49.049 be done, but point out some things that bb sellers can actually do to 12 00:00:49.130 --> 00:00:52.159 improve their outreach. What was this one? Give us a little bit of 13 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.320 context to the one that recently got you pretty fired up. We're not going 14 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.479 to name any names today, but let's call it like it is, and 15 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.799 I thought your response that you shared with me offline was just so telling. 16 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.189 Let's let's kick off the conversation there, Simon. The thing that frustrates me 17 00:01:07.310 --> 00:01:10.909 is it's a process. So first of all you get linked in and because 18 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:12.870 I'm you know, we're in similar businesses, or we you know we do 19 00:01:14.069 --> 00:01:17.670 this when we went to the same school, or we you know, we 20 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:21.500 like oranges. And then the next thing is you get the you know, 21 00:01:21.859 --> 00:01:25.060 I was wondering email. That's what I would call that. I was wondering 22 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:32.099 you currently looking for help in motivating your staff, in those that might be 23 00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:36.650 lacking drive or motivation? I want to start wasting times on small problems and 24 00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:42.170 focus really drives growth. Whether it's helping them not, true thriving culture, 25 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:46.370 run organization, seemed as they will become an amazing brand, glaud it. 26 00:01:46.609 --> 00:01:49.879 This goes on and on and I just went no, I want to I 27 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:55.439 want to warn my stuff, to make miserable, entitled and depressed, and 28 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:59.480 I I guess I'll get a response at some point. Yes, maybe, 29 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:01.590 maybe, maybe not, but I think all of us, whether we've typed 30 00:02:01.629 --> 00:02:07.310 out that response or not, we've had that same thought and for one, 31 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.949 I think one thing leads to that. In this example that we're talking about, 32 00:02:10.030 --> 00:02:15.819 in linkedin or email, follow up gone wrong on calld outreach, and 33 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:20.819 that is there's a connection request and then there's an immediate right hook the I 34 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:24.379 was just wondering email. But then that I was just wondering email in that 35 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:31.650 I heard three very high level, different value props that were kind of Duh 36 00:02:32.009 --> 00:02:37.129 like, which is what informed your response right like. Of course I'm looking 37 00:02:37.289 --> 00:02:39.770 to have happier employees, of course I want to have an amazing brand. 38 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:46.039 They show no level of depth or research or understanding of the person on the 39 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:50.120 other line. And so why do you think, Simon, that these templates 40 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.759 keep getting written if we are kind of feel the same way? Why is 41 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.349 this still so common today, especially on Linkedin? You see that connection request 42 00:02:59.550 --> 00:03:02.030 and then you get there. I was just wondering message. Because people are 43 00:03:02.069 --> 00:03:07.430 lazy. That's the most think. That's the simplest. You know when you 44 00:03:07.590 --> 00:03:08.469 when you're going to if I'm going to reach out you, I want to 45 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:12.509 know who you are on and know what what challenges you might be facing. 46 00:03:13.099 --> 00:03:16.419 There's no problem with writing that email off. There's context and there's concern. 47 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:20.659 You know, I see that you're in the travel industry. You must be 48 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:23.060 absolutely under the crush right now. What can I do to help you. 49 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:27.210 Don't worry about paying me. Let me come in and talk to you. 50 00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:29.889 What can I do that's going to help you, know, eve some of 51 00:03:29.969 --> 00:03:32.610 the burdens? If you've got challenges with your staff, maybe I can talk 52 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:36.330 to some of them, maybe I could help you. Know, just something. 53 00:03:36.569 --> 00:03:40.439 Right now it's about throwing hooks out there and getting people excited and engaged, 54 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.520 and I do the other around. You know when I when I want 55 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:46.520 someone to work for me, you know I wanted to. My first foot 56 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:51.520 is, how can I help you? What can I give you that you 57 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.319 know? Hopefully you can. You can give me something in return, so 58 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.110 it doesn't always feel like, you know, there's a there's a price tag 59 00:03:58.189 --> 00:04:00.830 coming at the end of it. And right now that's how you differentiate. 60 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:06.750 And I'll also say cold emailing, cold linked in or any of the other 61 00:04:08.430 --> 00:04:13.740 cold methods need to be a place with warm methods or decent cold calling. 62 00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:16.339 I they pick up the bloody phone. When that's been more response to so 63 00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:20.259 many of these people who know me, I say here's my cell phone number. 64 00:04:20.259 --> 00:04:24.610 If you genuinely want to sell me something, here's my telephone phone me 65 00:04:24.970 --> 00:04:28.050 to know how. A few pick up the phone and phone because they're scared 66 00:04:28.089 --> 00:04:30.209 of the telephone, the scart of actually speaking to a customer. They spend 67 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:34.009 most of their life typing to customers. That's not setting, that's typing. 68 00:04:34.449 --> 00:04:38.600 Selling is when you open your mouth and you converse. I love it, 69 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.360 Simon, so tell me a little bit. I love what you talked about 70 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.279 there in not just putting a hook in the water with bait on it, 71 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:49.360 but just giving something valuable with no hook, no string attached, knowing that 72 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.589 it's actually going to come back to you. Don't have to Yank. You 73 00:04:53.670 --> 00:04:57.149 know, I can remember learning to fish as a kid and you learn that 74 00:04:57.269 --> 00:04:59.910 when you get that little nibble right, you gotta set the Hook, you 75 00:04:59.990 --> 00:05:02.949 gotta you gotta pull so you you get that that home set in the fish's 76 00:05:02.990 --> 00:05:05.389 mouths pull it really quickly as well. You got it, you got a 77 00:05:05.990 --> 00:05:10.339 of nurture. It's in, and that's the thing I think there's to people 78 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:15.060 are too quick to try and sell or try and tell himself to too quick 79 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:18.699 to try and type. Yeah, that's a good point. Back to your 80 00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:24.410 differentiation on what is actually selling. Tell us a little bit about in your 81 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:28.730 own experience or your own team. What are some tactical ways that you guys 82 00:05:28.769 --> 00:05:34.689 have found to add value, to turn those cold outreach messages into warm outreach 83 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:40.000 messages with a little bit of context and some way it, you can offer 84 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:44.600 value that is still somewhat repeatable, somewhat scale. Boy, have some ideas 85 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:46.720 in my mind, but I would love to hear from your perspective what have 86 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:51.709 been some of those tactics your team has been able to act out on that 87 00:05:51.829 --> 00:05:57.470 advice that you were just giving there. I think it's empathy, compassion and 88 00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:01.670 and research. Don't spend all day long researching somebody the pick up phone because 89 00:06:01.670 --> 00:06:04.980 they can very easily go not interested or you're going to, you know, 90 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:09.620 Sarkie response like I did. But actually, when you stop and you look 91 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:13.180 at their you know whatever it is, the latest release, the conversation, 92 00:06:13.339 --> 00:06:15.860 the podcast, the chief is acatives been on, when you understand what the 93 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:20.089 challenge is that company is facing and what they what they're looking to achieve, 94 00:06:20.290 --> 00:06:25.889 and it's a head of a lot easier to start that conversation. And you've 95 00:06:25.889 --> 00:06:29.569 got to create that intrigue and they got to create that that interest, and 96 00:06:29.730 --> 00:06:33.079 right now it's even harder because people have got lots of money. Actually but 97 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:38.600 they're sitting on it like it's gold and they're not going to release it unless, 98 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:43.800 unless you really prize it open. And it comes to to something which 99 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.319 has been bothering me and and I've been thinking about this a lot of the 100 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:51.350 last year. I guess when I when I was young, my dad's cart 101 00:06:51.509 --> 00:06:55.670 breakdown and he would take it to the garage and go to the mechanic and 102 00:06:55.750 --> 00:06:59.550 need say something wrong with the car. Can you fix it and send me 103 00:06:59.589 --> 00:07:03.019 the bill? Today, you want to go and get a second of opinion. 104 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:06.300 You want to Google. You can't walk into a store and buy address. 105 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:09.579 You first take a picture of it. Then you go and compare it. 106 00:07:09.939 --> 00:07:12.379 Can I buy it somewhere else cheaper? You go to the doctor, 107 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:14.819 the dentist and say he says you need drew. Can I you go? 108 00:07:15.220 --> 00:07:18.370 Well, I want to get a second opinion. So the whole trust and 109 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:21.250 belief in in in the people that you work with, all the people you 110 00:07:21.410 --> 00:07:26.730 buy from, is gone. So every any time anyone wants to do business 111 00:07:26.769 --> 00:07:30.160 for this I feel like we have to overcome that that you know we're going 112 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:31.759 to rip you off, we're going to take we're going to take money from 113 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.199 you and we can not going to give you value in return and I can 114 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:39.839 buy cheaper across the road, and I think that that's what I've been thinking 115 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.639 about and that's what I think company is going to think about todays. How 116 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.589 can I how can I deliver my product where people don't have to worry about 117 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:48.069 what the bill is going to be at the end of it? That makes 118 00:07:48.110 --> 00:07:54.269 sense? Yeah, absolutely, I think you you unearth something there Simon in 119 00:07:54.550 --> 00:08:00.819 in a shift that has happened psychologically. That's a great example of where your 120 00:08:00.899 --> 00:08:03.939 dad just had had trust that this money is going to be well spent, 121 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:09.180 I'm going to get the right amount of value back for what I spend and 122 00:08:09.339 --> 00:08:13.009 whether that's been kind of the proliferation of it's easier to get into business and 123 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:16.970 all sorts of sectors. So there have been a lot of businesses without good 124 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.250 delivery and good products and good service, or it's just been the fact that 125 00:08:22.689 --> 00:08:24.930 hey, I should look into other options because they're available, you know, 126 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:28.519 and that's probably a conversation for another day on why we've gotten there. But 127 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.879 as be toob sales and marketing professionals, we have to recognize that we are 128 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.960 there. There is a lack of trust and it's not just hey, here's 129 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.240 value and here's what it costs, and we have to communicate that. We 130 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:46.149 have to overcome that big mountain of the trust issue before we can really engage 131 00:08:46.230 --> 00:08:52.509 and have a selling conversation, at that true selling conversation, as you put 132 00:08:52.509 --> 00:08:54.190 it earlier. What are some of the ways? You know, here it's 133 00:08:54.190 --> 00:08:58.580 sweet fish. We've seen that. You're exactly right. People. It's not 134 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:05.100 like budgets have totally been eradicated, but people are being much more careful this 135 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:07.980 year as they think about, you know, just the uncertain times. And 136 00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:13.570 one way we've been able to try to establish some trust with a company that's 137 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:18.210 never worked with us before is getting creative around some sort of pilot program or 138 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.409 something that we can do for them without asking for anything in return to overcome 139 00:09:22.730 --> 00:09:26.720 that initial hill, that of trust, that we have to get over. 140 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.200 So for some folks we've said, hey, you're thinking about starting a podcast, 141 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:33.480 but you're not sure if people in your target market would say yes to 142 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.080 being a guest on a podcast, depending on whether you sell to hr or 143 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.750 travel industry executives or marketing leaders at Sass companies, whoever it is. So 144 00:09:43.029 --> 00:09:45.710 let us do a little bit of test there and see what we get. 145 00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:48.950 No cost to that, no commitment, and then they can see not only 146 00:09:48.990 --> 00:09:54.659 the delivery of our service but also they can get the question answer without having 147 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:58.100 to put a bunch of money on the table. Are there's some things like 148 00:09:58.299 --> 00:10:01.059 that that your team has found this year have worked well for you guys in 149 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:05.740 building that trust, in finding some creative ways to offering something that might not 150 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.490 have typically been, prior to two thousand and twenty, part of your typical 151 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:13.850 process and procedures. Let me tell you a little bit about what we do 152 00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:20.490 so it gives a list of context. So up until February two thousand and 153 00:10:20.490 --> 00:10:24.639 twenty, we were on the crest of wave and we've been. We've been 154 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.720 growing aggressively for the last six years. We started twenty six years of twenty 155 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:33.080 six years ago. Where twenty six year old start up and everything we do. 156 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.389 When Airlines need to make money, airlines need to inspire their passages or 157 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:41.710 they want to create some content, they tend to come to us and taught 158 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:46.750 to us. So when when the pandemic hit in March, you know, 159 00:10:46.830 --> 00:10:50.019 all the sudden our lines are working out where they're going to part their planes, 160 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:54.460 not where. Not where they're going to get something to inspire their customers. 161 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.860 So it's been twenty five weeks of sitting on our hands, waiting for, 162 00:10:58.139 --> 00:11:03.539 waiting for people to take off again, and over the last two weeks 163 00:11:03.860 --> 00:11:07.250 when they're in there, when we are all gays, all got into a 164 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:11.610 blur September, August, September and, you know, people started fly again. 165 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:16.250 So I'm having to come back to the set of look, you're got 166 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:20.399 to trust us again. This was a fantastic audience for you. This was 167 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.960 a great market place where you reached fast moving consumers, people who are tastemakers, 168 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.879 people who were doing and moving and shaking. Now people are scared of 169 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.789 flying, people are scared of, you know, catching covid so we've got 170 00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:41.389 to overcome so many more objections that didn't even exist six months ago. And 171 00:11:41.470 --> 00:11:43.429 I think that's what it's going to be like now, over the next twenty 172 00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:48.179 four months, is, as a business, the objections that you used to 173 00:11:48.259 --> 00:11:50.019 get and not we're going to be the objections going forward and you're going to 174 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:56.620 have to deal with customers who want to feel like I've got so much choice, 175 00:11:56.620 --> 00:11:58.940 I've got so many places I can do it. Where am I going 176 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:03.049 to get the best value for money? And I think that's that's what I've 177 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:07.009 got to think up and come up with and in the spy my team because, 178 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:11.049 you know, rather than having a conversation about our media, they want 179 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:13.049 to have a conversation about our people flying, our people. You know, 180 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:16.600 what's it like at the airport? So you know, has it like? 181 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:18.879 What's it like to fly with a face mask? And and we know we 182 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.559 have an airline in in Europe where people are say, you know, your 183 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.360 airline has been too aggressive, it's letting to be people in the plate, 184 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.070 you're bringing covid into our country. And it's like then, okay, that's 185 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:33.070 that's not that's all our Angu for. But you know. So. So 186 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:37.350 these are whole new challenges that we didn't even experience before. Yeah, so 187 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:39.830 would you say there? It's fair to say, Simon, that with your 188 00:12:39.950 --> 00:12:46.299 own sales team, you're have going to encourage them and get them more educated 189 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.980 on the day to day of the buyers that they're selling to, even more 190 00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:56.940 so now because they're so far removed from being ready to have that sales conversation. 191 00:12:56.019 --> 00:13:01.169 There's so many things that they've got to get through psychologically and tactically. 192 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:03.970 It's not just the CFO breathing down their neck of we don't we can't spend 193 00:13:05.009 --> 00:13:07.769 this money or don't sign a long term commitment. It's all these other things. 194 00:13:07.889 --> 00:13:11.610 And so the sales teams that are going to be successful are the ones 195 00:13:11.649 --> 00:13:16.080 that go deeper into the day to day lives of their customers. Would would 196 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.720 you say that that's true for your team and in other BB sales teams out 197 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.360 there? A hundred seven travers? I'll tell you some of the interesting things 198 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.840 that I'm seeing that are happening. People don't want to come into work, 199 00:13:26.350 --> 00:13:30.269 you know, and that work might be from bedroom to living room. But 200 00:13:30.549 --> 00:13:33.789 well, they will actually they don't want to commute on the don't want to 201 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:37.470 commute on public transport. So getting there as a fair is that first challenge. 202 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:41.820 Then they don't want to pick up the phone or do stuff because they're 203 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:45.379 worried they're going to get rejected. But what I am saying the ones who 204 00:13:45.379 --> 00:13:50.820 are really aggressive already and determine who want to get back to being successful again. 205 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.860 They're reaching out much harder up the food chap and not messing around with 206 00:13:54.940 --> 00:14:00.370 marketing teams or VPS. It can strike to see you, because the CEO's 207 00:14:00.409 --> 00:14:03.889 of the ones right now who are making decisions very quickly because they are looking 208 00:14:03.889 --> 00:14:07.330 at that business and thing, how can I get back in how can I 209 00:14:07.409 --> 00:14:13.080 get back in business as quickly as I possibly can? So we're having conversations, 210 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.120 and I'm not talking about small organizations and talking about a publicly listed companies 211 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:22.960 where the CEO is now much more engaged than he's ever been because he's having 212 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:28.110 to make challenging decisions right now. And you know, when people are at 213 00:14:28.149 --> 00:14:31.509 home getting decisions, is happy, because it's you know once, once I 214 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:33.509 we walk across the office and say you want to do this and someone say 215 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:35.950 yeah, we'll get to cap. Now it's you know, I'm going to 216 00:14:35.990 --> 00:14:39.779 set of a zoom call with him, him in here and it's taking so 217 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:43.539 long to get a decision, whereas if you go right to the top and 218 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.659 he says yeah, quite likely, let's just bring in. And also when 219 00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:50.059 the CEEO rings you and says come on this zoom call, it's like, 220 00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:52.769 okay, I'll be there in a minute, boss. And we're getting we're 221 00:14:52.809 --> 00:14:58.529 getting a lot of bigger deals done, quicker deals done now. We always 222 00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:01.929 did try that, but in the in the old days, you're the CEO, 223 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:05.450 were just pass it down. Now we're finding that they're taking control of 224 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:09.960 things themselves as well. They really are getting in gold. So, as 225 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.879 you've pushed your team to go higher up the food chain and call on the 226 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:18.320 CEO more directly and more often, you're seeing higher response rates there than previously 227 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:22.909 when they had tried to go that route. Yeah, what are some of 228 00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:26.110 the things? So you mentioned? We started the episode here, Simon, 229 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:31.110 with a very bad called email or called linkedin message to you. A CEO 230 00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:37.139 offer brings some very vague value props and very kind of yeah, of course, 231 00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:41.100 sort of things. What are the common themes in the messaging for you 232 00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:46.580 as a CEO that resonates and prompts you to respond? Is it more looking 233 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:52.210 at specific industry insides? Is it looking at opportunities? Is it looking at 234 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:58.169 ways to avoid some of the biggest risks in in your space right now? 235 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:00.690 What are some of those common things? For those out there that say, 236 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:03.679 okay, I want to take what Simon saying, I want to reach out 237 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.440 to more CEOS, but I want to do it in the right way that's 238 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.480 going to be effective. What advice would you give them? Right now, 239 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:15.000 Simon, let's say look at what's been written, look at what the messaging 240 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.389 is, look where the frustration is or the enthusiasm and address those points, 241 00:16:19.549 --> 00:16:26.070 help those points. The Best Pitch I had during this period was I found 242 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:30.509 me up and he said look, I've seen you linkedin post, linked it. 243 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.100 He said, I can you just give me five minutes and I promise 244 00:16:33.139 --> 00:16:37.179 you won't be a waste of five. And you get a lot of these, 245 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:37.899 but he was. I said, okay, here's my number. Phon 246 00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:42.700 me and he actually found me and he said, look, I'm sensing some 247 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:48.049 real frustration in some of your posting and some of your things. I've got 248 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:49.570 a solution. I want to send it to you. It was it was 249 00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:52.129 about somebody asking for a pay rise. I think that was the issue. 250 00:16:52.450 --> 00:16:56.049 They said, I've got a document that I wrote about pay rises and how 251 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:00.169 you address this as a situation. Can I send it to you? I 252 00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:03.680 said Shure. He's look, there's no cost us, it's fine. Send 253 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.079 it to me and it's just brilliant. From that and a halfway through this 254 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.559 conversation is talking to me about other things and marketing and you know, he's 255 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.440 selling himself and so I don't care what you cost, I'd like to work 256 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.549 with you because I actually find your whole style and the whole way you've got 257 00:17:18.589 --> 00:17:22.029 about this really, really helpful. And he came in and did some work 258 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:26.589 with our team and but it was just that where where he was coming in 259 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:30.259 with with a gift to help and not coming in to try and sell me 260 00:17:30.339 --> 00:17:33.019 something, to the point where you where. I said that to him. 261 00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:34.220 He said, I don't want it, I don't want to sell to you, 262 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:37.619 I just just generally want to help you, and I su course she 263 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:40.779 wants some money for me, but it wasn't really was. It was, 264 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:44.609 you know, and every now and again elseend me another message or record. 265 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:47.130 So for me, here's an idea I've got for you, and I think 266 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:49.650 that's where you get engagement, if you just keep sending messages. I'm like 267 00:17:49.730 --> 00:17:53.529 it dozens of messages of day. You okay, you you know what can 268 00:17:53.569 --> 00:17:57.210 I do and you know you need anything. You need to spend some money 269 00:17:57.210 --> 00:18:00.720 here. Jo want some ideas on the leadership, John, some ideas on 270 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.480 this, that and the other, and I'm like no, I just I 271 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.519 just want I just want to be left a load actually, because, you 272 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:08.880 know, I'm I'm trying to work out how we're going to get through this. 273 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:15.109 And and the last point on that is right now everybody is complaining about 274 00:18:15.109 --> 00:18:18.349 the job that they didn't even want, you know, the job they didn't 275 00:18:18.349 --> 00:18:22.950 even want to go to. But now it's a whole different world and I 276 00:18:23.029 --> 00:18:29.099 think we've got to be really careful as employees employers that, you know, 277 00:18:29.259 --> 00:18:32.900 the this is going to become a weird market for our sales people, because 278 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.859 if you're not really decimined to get better, really trying to push yourself harder, 279 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:41.339 you're going to you know, this going to be another wave of coling 280 00:18:41.849 --> 00:18:45.769 and there's going to be much more people looking for work. Then they're all 281 00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:48.450 going to be jokes, the sales people, and I think in this industry 282 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:53.450 you're gonna have to work a damn sight harder than you did pretty covid. 283 00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:57.240 I think. Yeah, that's a sobering thought, but I see the reality 284 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.240 in that. Definitely Simon in bb sales, as we see, you know, 285 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:06.279 more people in the space and fewer jobs to be had, as I'm 286 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:10.670 teaching my eleven year old about supply and demand right now, and and that's 287 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:12.789 you know what's taking place in the job market right now. Well, I'm 288 00:19:12.869 --> 00:19:18.069 in I love what you've said here about taking a different route than those cold 289 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:22.710 messages that we've seen that we just know don't work, yet we still keep 290 00:19:22.869 --> 00:19:26.220 sending them, and a better way to go about it. I love the 291 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:30.740 story you talked about Your Dad. That really uncovered the trust issue that's at 292 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:36.380 the root of a lot of the buyer seller interaction, especially in the early 293 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:41.450 stages of any sales process. Whether you're a fairly transactional sale or a long 294 00:19:41.609 --> 00:19:45.609 sales cycle of, you know, multiple months or years in an enterprise type 295 00:19:45.849 --> 00:19:48.329 of selling environment, it doesn't really matter. That trust factor is still there, 296 00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:52.960 so don't go in blindly not realizing that that's there. And then what 297 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:56.119 you're talking about here. I think it's really interesting that your sales team is 298 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:02.000 finding greater success reaching out to see eos when they do it with a value 299 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.759 first mindset, when they go to their marketing team and say, Hey, 300 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.109 what content can I offer to see eos at this size of company or in 301 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:14.069 this sector? What content can I offer to this role, this persona and 302 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:18.470 someone in this industry? And then they genuinely go towards that person with the 303 00:20:18.549 --> 00:20:22.099 attitude of helpfulness I learned early on. I was trained by one of my 304 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:25.099 first sales managers to go with that line of I'm not trying to sell you 305 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:27.779 something. I only did it two or three times before I realize I don't 306 00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:33.420 ever want to utter that again because I want to be helpful. But at 307 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:34.660 the end of the day that is my job to sell you something. So 308 00:20:34.809 --> 00:20:40.049 why be disingenuous and say that? But the way to sell is to focus 309 00:20:40.089 --> 00:20:44.609 less on selling more on helping, and it's just one of those great oxymorons 310 00:20:44.650 --> 00:20:48.130 of life that when we focus less on selling, we actually end up selling 311 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:51.359 more. So I mean this has been a great conversation. If anybody listening 312 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:53.759 to this would like to stay connected with you or they'd like to reach out 313 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:57.799 and get some ideas from you, or they have a way that they genuinely 314 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.640 think they could be helpful to you, what's the best way for them to 315 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.589 go about doing that, in line with the theme of today's episode? Well, 316 00:21:04.869 --> 00:21:08.430 abus say, you can use my linkedin spend most of the time a 317 00:21:08.509 --> 00:21:11.990 link to this. So less past upon me. If you want to know 318 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:15.470 more about me, buy my book. Every every sense of profit will go 319 00:21:15.589 --> 00:21:19.299 to charity and I'm helping to lend my own little way to help to read 320 00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:25.140 homelessness. The books called there's no fin sales, which is a probably the 321 00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:30.779 most appropriate title for right now, and I'm I'm starting to pen the next 322 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:33.410 one, which is cooled. There is an F and future. I love 323 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.490 it all right. Well, Simon, we will link to not only your 324 00:21:36.569 --> 00:21:40.410 linked in but your book there's no fin sales in the show notes. Another 325 00:21:40.529 --> 00:21:45.529 episode we did somewhat related to this topic, folks. I interviewed Matt hines 326 00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:51.359 about a very tactical way to add value and to continue delivering helpful content to 327 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.799 folks who do engage with your content on Linkedin. Will Link to that in 328 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.519 the show notes as well. I think if you like this conversation, you'll 329 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.359 like that one as well. Simon, thank you so much for joining me 330 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.390 on the show today. It's been a real pleasure talking to you. Appreciate 331 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:06.910 it and anything I can do to help anyone, please just reach outs. 332 00:22:06.950 --> 00:22:08.910 But anyone in sales. That's my passion and I want to make sure that 333 00:22:10.230 --> 00:22:15.980 young salespeople, old salespeople, just get better. Is Your buyer a betb 334 00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:21.220 marketer? If so, you should think about sponsoring this podcast. BUB growth 335 00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:25.099 gets downloaded over a hundred and thirty thousand times each month, and our listeners 336 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:29.819 are marketing decisionmakers. If it sounds interesting, Sin Logan and email Logan at 337 00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:30.130 sweetish Mediacom