1314: How to Hire Your 1st CRO w/ Chris Black

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:08.390 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.429 --> 00:00:12.029 We've got a repeat guest on the show today. I am excited to welcome 3 00:00:12.070 --> 00:00:15.990 back to the show Chris Black. He's currently the CRO over at Jole era. 4 00:00:16.309 --> 00:00:19.109 Chris, how's it going today and, very importantly, what did you 5 00:00:19.190 --> 00:00:23.620 have for breakfast this morning? Oh Yeah, you're following Carberre's note on linkedin 6 00:00:23.699 --> 00:00:27.140 yesterday. I love it perfect. I'm doing very well. Thank you for 7 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:30.100 having me back. I appreciate it. It's not often that I get invite 8 00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:34.859 it back, but this is fantastic. Well, I have protein shake for 9 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:38.969 breakfast every day. It's unless I'm on the road and traveling, and even 10 00:00:39.009 --> 00:00:42.570 then I try and find it. But I have a vegan protein shake every 11 00:00:42.570 --> 00:00:45.689 day. I'm not Vegan, but I try and do my part every little 12 00:00:45.689 --> 00:00:49.490 bit that I can, and it helps me feel energizing good. That with 13 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:53.000 three or four pots of French press coffee and I feel great every day. 14 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.200 I like it, man. I like the Combo of the caffeine and and 15 00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:59.759 the protein shake. Is there a secret ingredient to your protein shake? Listener 16 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:03.000 should know it's a deeper ingredient. I mean I stay pretty straightforward. A 17 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.709 lot of people say that they have a protein shake and they still feel hungry. 18 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:07.349 I found that if you put a little bit of Avocado and there, 19 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:12.150 the fats from the Avocados really help you stay satiated until lunchtime. Who I 20 00:01:12.269 --> 00:01:15.870 like that idea. Man. I'm a sucker for a good avocado. There's 21 00:01:15.909 --> 00:01:19.739 nothing worse than cutting into one and it's black already and juice so disappointed. 22 00:01:19.900 --> 00:01:22.780 All right, well, we're not. We're not going to go too much 23 00:01:22.819 --> 00:01:25.579 further on Avocados today. We're going to be talking about as I as I 24 00:01:25.659 --> 00:01:27.379 mentioned here the last time you're on the show, you were with a different 25 00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:32.930 organization. You and I recently reconnected and for the last eighteen months, almost 26 00:01:32.930 --> 00:01:37.370 to the day, you have been the chief revenue officer over at Jill era. 27 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:40.930 Give us a little bit of background to that story, how you came 28 00:01:41.049 --> 00:01:44.650 to to this role, and really I'd like to what we're going to be 29 00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:47.680 talking about, I think will be applicable for folks, is what is this 30 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:49.879 new role of the CR role that seems to be on the rise? What 31 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:53.280 does that look like? How do you decide the structure there and, especially 32 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.239 if you're new to that role. How do you set some priorities there? 33 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:00.430 So back us up and give us the Snapshot View and then we'll dig in 34 00:02:00.510 --> 00:02:05.310 a little bit more in what that role looks like for you guys and what 35 00:02:05.469 --> 00:02:07.629 the first eighteen months, is this zero, looked like for you. Yeah, 36 00:02:07.669 --> 00:02:12.270 absolutely. I mean it's been it's been one hell of a journey, 37 00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:14.909 to be honest with you, over the last eighteen months. When the last 38 00:02:14.949 --> 00:02:17.500 time you guys caught up with me, I was the the president of a 39 00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:23.539 western Canadian and we had expanded nationally. It Services Company. You know, 40 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:25.139 we did what we had sought, Oh to do, which was build an 41 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:30.930 organization that that went on for sale. So we sold it to a big 42 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:36.449 multi multinational organization and I handled the integration of the two businesses together. And 43 00:02:36.969 --> 00:02:38.050 you know, really, when I started getting to the tail end of that, 44 00:02:38.090 --> 00:02:43.449 I had opportunities with the multi national, which was just Rico Organization, 45 00:02:43.569 --> 00:02:46.879 to just a tremendous JEPPI's company, well manage well run and just an amazing 46 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:53.280 culture. That the challenge for me was that I wanted to extend myself beyond. 47 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:57.960 You know that that national school up in presence and my good friend Alec 48 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.030 Shan, who I had gotten to know over the years based on our being 49 00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:05.110 in mutual industry, who represented an organization called Jole era. You know, 50 00:03:05.229 --> 00:03:08.270 he he knew that I was looking for something more indifferent and he got to 51 00:03:08.389 --> 00:03:13.699 me early and and he hit me hard with the faked me out. He 52 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:17.060 invited me for dinner and snuck in an entire job pitched to me and his 53 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:23.139 fits really around crow. And you know, when you're moving from president role 54 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.340 and you're the boss, you're the guy, you get to call the shots. 55 00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:29.129 You know, once you hit that pinnacle, especially in an organism. 56 00:03:29.169 --> 00:03:31.650 I was a great one for fifteen years. Once you get to that spot, 57 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:35.530 you really sit back and you think I've I've hit the top. Do 58 00:03:35.650 --> 00:03:38.610 I ever want to go and report to somebody again? And it took a 59 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:39.689 lot of Sulcer to for me. But when we start that, we talked 60 00:03:39.729 --> 00:03:44.000 about it. The role of CRO and the ability to work at Jewelro which 61 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:47.240 is a global organization was growing very rapidly. You know, it sort of 62 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:53.599 took that business management and strategy component, sales and marketing melded together and really 63 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.789 allowed me to flex the mental muscles that I had and build more on my 64 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:02.189 experience. So I had never had outside of the US international business experience. 65 00:04:02.270 --> 00:04:06.349 That was important to me. and think, quite honestly, the idea of 66 00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:12.259 a crow and reporting up to such a dynamic character like Alex and being able 67 00:04:12.259 --> 00:04:14.860 to work hand in hand. I mean we look at it and he says 68 00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:17.300 it all the time. You know, he considers me an extension of him 69 00:04:17.379 --> 00:04:20.779 and vice versa. No, you can come to us for just about anything. 70 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:24.930 It's very clear. Yere, he's the boss and you know there's that 71 00:04:25.129 --> 00:04:28.649 disagreed but commit that comes in. Not that often. It it's we're usually 72 00:04:28.649 --> 00:04:31.410 on the same page, but the role of the crow has really yeah, 73 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:38.490 my journey at Greycon came from the age where sales and marketing were very much 74 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.399 separate animals and marketing was seen as and I you don't mind a little bit 75 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.560 of of the bad language, but it was sales a bitch for a long 76 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:50.079 time and and for us it was really something that, you know, we 77 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:55.670 built and there was a lady named demand, to think, that came into 78 00:04:55.709 --> 00:04:59.709 our organization of Greakn and really kicked the sales engine in the as and said 79 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.470 here's what marketing can do, not just to serve you leads, but to 80 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:08.300 work with you inline as a partner, to have a better customer experience, 81 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:12.339 to drive more leads and and that really spread me off on a journey of 82 00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:15.300 discovery. Marketing ride. Carried a bag or the Mana sales teams most of 83 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:18.699 my career and I got to know marketing on you got to know account base, 84 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:24.410 marketing, lead generation in a way that wasn't cold prospecting and starting to 85 00:05:24.529 --> 00:05:27.329 melt all of those pieces together, sort of like you think of the picture 86 00:05:27.329 --> 00:05:31.089 of DNA and the results just started flowing in. So being able to walk 87 00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:33.970 into jewel awhere it was very much on the same route, but with a 88 00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:39.519 different type customer that we were going after and take a very focus message, 89 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:44.319 very focus brand and an amazing solution out to alobal market place. I couldn't 90 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.959 say I love it, man. I love that. That not dead, 91 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:49.149 Patrick Lynsey, only in the five dysfunctions of a team, and they did 92 00:05:49.310 --> 00:05:54.470 disagree but commit. It's just amazing when you find those right people to to 93 00:05:54.589 --> 00:05:57.910 go to battle with every every single day. You know, James and I 94 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:00.750 have talked about the leadership team that we have now. For me, two 95 00:06:00.790 --> 00:06:05.180 years into sweet fish, it just feels like man, we have folks that 96 00:06:05.379 --> 00:06:10.180 we are just so excited to go to battle with every single day and it 97 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:13.620 makes it a lot of fun. So I love here in that little segue. 98 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:16.259 So as you and I were talking a little bit offline, there was 99 00:06:16.300 --> 00:06:20.730 a post I think it might have been Ian luck at Customer Gage, who 100 00:06:20.850 --> 00:06:25.610 was talking about this, looking at the decline of the CMO roll, and 101 00:06:25.689 --> 00:06:29.329 James commented in and I kind of chimed in because we've been talking about what 102 00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:31.370 does the future for sweet fish look like? Do we do we want a 103 00:06:31.649 --> 00:06:36.319 Crro roll that that focuses on you know, there are three really revenue impacting 104 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:42.000 functions right there's marketing, their sales, and there's customer success, Account Management, 105 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.680 whatever you kind of call that post sale team. And to some folks 106 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.629 the Crow Roll is, you know, sales and customer success and they're working 107 00:06:49.750 --> 00:06:55.949 alongside the CMO. In some cases the CR roll is over sales and marketing. 108 00:06:56.230 --> 00:06:58.709 What does that look like for you guys, and how did you land 109 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:04.819 on the structure of the entire revenue our operation and what the Cro roll would 110 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:10.100 entail and and not include? Tell us a little bit about the decision and 111 00:07:10.220 --> 00:07:13.220 how you guys came to that? Well, I'm not going to take a 112 00:07:13.220 --> 00:07:15.129 lot of credit for this. So a lot of this came from from Alex 113 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:18.209 and you know, the Laire has been around for twenty years and it's been 114 00:07:18.410 --> 00:07:23.529 through the ups and the downs of the Canadian, North American global economy. 115 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:26.610 And then he sat back and he looked at it. Me a disparate sales 116 00:07:26.689 --> 00:07:29.769 team. He had a what was a newer marketing engine that, you know, 117 00:07:29.889 --> 00:07:33.120 de Laire was really just wrapping its head around the whole marketing side of 118 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:38.160 the equation. And obviously there was a long history of customer success. But 119 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.079 when he sat back and looked at it in the way he presented it to 120 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:45.310 me, was he really saw the customer experience and the partner. You know, 121 00:07:45.389 --> 00:07:46.990 we sell into the channel, we don't sell the end customers. So 122 00:07:47.110 --> 00:07:51.110 for us we have to tell our story twice, very very well. So 123 00:07:51.269 --> 00:07:55.589 marketing is a huge component of our business, as is sales. In terms 124 00:07:55.629 --> 00:07:58.980 of we have one of the hardest cells. It's other we're sen CEOS. 125 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:03.379 We don't get to go to influencers who just have to get a check mark. 126 00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:07.220 We're going to the decision maker to make a vital decision about business that 127 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:11.899 they know inside know. So when Alex, you know, presented it to 128 00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:13.850 me, said I've got a great sale team, I've got this great emerging 129 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:18.370 marketing apparatus and we have all of these end customers and partners that need to 130 00:08:18.410 --> 00:08:22.689 be managed and and I, you know, I don't see these pieces working 131 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:26.689 separate from each other because everything we do, every time I'm doing it, 132 00:08:26.769 --> 00:08:28.920 I'm pulling the same groups into the same room. So I want, you 133 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.440 know, sort of Lord of the rings. I want one ring to rule 134 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.480 them all. They're different areas, for sure. Anybody who tells you that 135 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.600 that marketing can take over sales, I've set it to marketers and you could 136 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.190 have my mark. I have a fantastic marketing manager right now and is a 137 00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:48.029 younger guy and he's learned and these he's a sponge. And No, he 138 00:08:48.230 --> 00:08:52.110 does not have feed on street business to business sales experience. That's a blind 139 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:54.669 spot for him. So my mentorship with him is not to teach him about 140 00:08:54.820 --> 00:09:01.740 Seo, sem content generation, digital disruption or guerrilla marketing. He knows that 141 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:03.539 stuff. On the flip side of the equation, you know, I have 142 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:07.379 a couple of sale I have a leader of customer success, which we call 143 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:11.250 program delivery, who doesn't know anything about marketing. Marketing is so far away 144 00:09:11.610 --> 00:09:16.009 from his experience. He's there to drive the best relationship possible, to drive 145 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:20.570 preparedness, to ensure that the account mapping is done and to make sure that 146 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:24.840 we're giving the best value and experienced customers that we can. So how having 147 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:30.159 him understand how we develop new prospects, how we develop new partners, how 148 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:35.200 we go out we market, what that messaging is so that there's truth carrying 149 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.159 between what we're doing, the customer success, what we're saying and what we're 150 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:43.350 promising from what we're initially saying in a market place and those dots are connected 151 00:09:43.830 --> 00:09:46.470 in the middle of all that to add a little bit of, you know, 152 00:09:46.669 --> 00:09:50.590 dynamicism to what we do. You know we've got a channel partner management 153 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.100 group which is led by by boy, are and Gil and you know Aaron 154 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:58.620 has been with me for fifteen years. So he would he would tell you 155 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:01.580 he's learnt everything I have to teach already and and he's teaching me, which 156 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.659 is very true, on a daily basis. I think any good coach, 157 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.610 mentor leader is learning from their teams. But I've got him and another guy 158 00:10:09.649 --> 00:10:13.370 named Terrence Frasade, who leads my architecture group, and it's the sharing of 159 00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:18.529 experiences from all of those groups. It's being able to understand that value proposition 160 00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:22.360 from beginning to end, taking the feedback that Voice of the customer and instilling 161 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.679 that into every part of the process. I think a Cros role is defined 162 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:31.399 by that. You know CMO and I know some CMOS that I would call 163 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.389 them more crows and seems. But a seem is typically looking at brand messaging 164 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:39.870 content that they're looking at everything that falls underneath that brandon message. And there's 165 00:10:39.909 --> 00:10:43.269 going to be CMOS that listen to this. They're going to be pissed. 166 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:45.669 They're going to say no, you don't understand my role. I do it 167 00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:50.340 different I'm putting a single code of paint on on something that's much more complex 168 00:10:50.419 --> 00:10:56.019 and dynamic than I'm giving a credit for. But most CMOS brand messaging positioning. 169 00:10:56.100 --> 00:11:00.539 That's where they're focused and they may play in all those spheres from you 170 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:05.929 know, that initial advocacy of a finding new prospects and engaging them through your 171 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:09.690 system and throwing them on that fly wheel or the tail end, but they're 172 00:11:09.690 --> 00:11:13.529 primarily focused on how you look and what you say, whereas the head of 173 00:11:13.610 --> 00:11:18.210 sales, that VP of sales or VP of sales or goodly and a, 174 00:11:18.289 --> 00:11:22.200 whatever you want to call them, their focused on transaction. They're focused on 175 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.159 closing deals, and I think laws in in the middle of that, in 176 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.360 the entire midst of that, is the merging of those two groups together, 177 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:37.269 because ultimately, marketing doesn't matter if you're not closing eels and closing deals and 178 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:39.950 being able to close deals doesn't matter if you don't have leads coming. So 179 00:11:41.110 --> 00:11:46.269 you have to merge those two together and it can't be a contentious rivalry type 180 00:11:46.429 --> 00:11:48.940 relationship. They have to do the same page and I believe, and it's 181 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:52.179 it was Alex's belief and I agree with I think we're living proof, you 182 00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:56.059 know, growing forty, two, sixty percent year over year. When you 183 00:11:56.259 --> 00:12:01.049 merge those together in one singular group, with one singular set of expectations, 184 00:12:01.169 --> 00:12:07.490 with a singular measurement that tears down at a different active disciplines and requirements and 185 00:12:07.529 --> 00:12:11.090 then pushes back up, you get a better result. I love a couple 186 00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:13.769 of things that you said there, because you you talked about as cro it 187 00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:18.600 in your instance, there at Jolera. You've got marketing, sales and customer 188 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.799 success rolling up to you. You have a definitive leader of each of those 189 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:30.269 functions and your job is to help them each understand the corresponding revenue functions. 190 00:12:30.350 --> 00:12:33.110 That isn't is not their expertise. And you know, I've talked to a 191 00:12:33.549 --> 00:12:37.830 lot of marketing leaders, a lot of sales leaders that say, Hey, 192 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:41.309 I have a good relationship with my marketing and my CS counterpart and we meet 193 00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:46.779 regularly. But it seems to me like what you're saying is that by having 194 00:12:46.820 --> 00:12:52.379 them all roll up to one single point of revenue leadership rather than to the 195 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:56.940 CEO, there's just a better opportunity for alignment. Am I off there and 196 00:12:58.100 --> 00:13:00.529 trying to kind of sum up what you're saying? Absolutely, I mean, 197 00:13:00.570 --> 00:13:03.289 if you think of a CEO's job, a CEO is meant to be a 198 00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:05.809 strong business generalist. They need to touch, you know, they have to 199 00:13:05.889 --> 00:13:09.409 touch every part of the business. They've got to touch finance, they got 200 00:13:09.529 --> 00:13:13.200 to touch people in culture, they've got to touch operations. They don't have 201 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.919 the time to specialize and to really dive in. They need to understand and 202 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:22.200 they need to drive the ultimate performance metric for the rest of the teams, 203 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:28.590 but they're not the ones who are are fundamentally going to drive on a tactical, 204 00:13:28.710 --> 00:13:33.350 granular basis what gets done. You know, even at a strategic level 205 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:35.710 they'll have input, but they don't have enough insight, they don't have enough 206 00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:39.110 data, they don't have enough involvement. You know, I Alex. Alex 207 00:13:39.149 --> 00:13:43.019 has it on a regular basis. I hired you because you know sales, 208 00:13:43.059 --> 00:13:46.379 you've built sales, you've done this. You know marketing, you built marketing, 209 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:48.299 you've done this. That's why I brought you at. His job is 210 00:13:48.340 --> 00:13:52.379 to bring in the best people to advise and consult him on the strategy for 211 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:56.730 the total organization and then to execute on their portions of it. I love 212 00:13:56.809 --> 00:14:01.690 it, man. So if someone listening to this maybe is a sales leader, 213 00:14:01.730 --> 00:14:05.929 a marketing leader or even ACS leader, what what advice would you give 214 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:11.279 to them if they are looking to they see their organization kind of mapping out 215 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.600 this path to creating a Crro roll? Or maybe they're sitting here thinking, 216 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.159 man, this would really serve our organization well and I think if I did 217 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.070 a few things, I could round out my experience to step into that role. 218 00:14:24.429 --> 00:14:30.470 What would you suggest to them one in in preparing themselves and to to 219 00:14:30.669 --> 00:14:35.190 make that case to the CEO who? That's a tough one. I mean 220 00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:39.940 it's cross pollination. I think, and this is my personal belief on my 221 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.700 personal experience and from talking to some other Cros that are out there, you 222 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.340 need to have cross pollination. You to be a cro you need to know 223 00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:52.259 marketing inside and now, if you're a sales leader that just gets moved into 224 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:56.690 a CRORO position you're not ready for because you don't know marketing, you need 225 00:14:56.769 --> 00:14:58.169 to spend time there. You have to live it. You need to go 226 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.250 through a brand changer to you need to go through a messaging revamp or two. 227 00:15:03.929 --> 00:15:07.279 You need to know and understand what it's like to roll out campaigns, 228 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.840 to host events, you know, to live in in the shoes of what 229 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.840 drives marketing, no matter what the organization is. I think you know. 230 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:18.240 If you're a business development leader and you've never managed to count and you said 231 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.279 no, no, I'm a hundred, not a farmer, you're the wrong 232 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:22.909 person. You have to understand hunting, you need to understand farming, you 233 00:15:22.990 --> 00:15:26.590 need to understand customer attention, you need to understand that full manifold. So 234 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:31.549 my recommendation is cross pollin eat. If this is where you want ahead, 235 00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:35.220 you better get damn friendly with the numbers and the business aspects, how the 236 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:39.580 strategies derived. You know, I didn't a lot of peoples about. Oh, 237 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:41.940 you were really luck. I was. There's no luck about what I 238 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:46.899 did. I did everything in a very purposeful format and I used to bug 239 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.450 my boss and my mentor, our COOO relentlessly. I wanted to know how 240 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:54.610 he came to the numbers, how we built the strategy, how he thought 241 00:15:54.610 --> 00:15:56.610 about the business and what success look like to him. When there was an 242 00:15:56.649 --> 00:16:00.649 opportunity to take over the marketing group, I put my hand up immediately and, 243 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:03.090 as opposed to just walking in and saying here's what sale needs, I 244 00:16:03.169 --> 00:16:06.879 asked, what is marketing need, and I did you know, two years 245 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.159 one mouth. I recommend that for everything apply that. Go in, ask 246 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.120 questions and listen and Cross pollinate, because a cro what I'm faced with on 247 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.070 a day today, basis, I think of this morning on that monitor right 248 00:16:18.110 --> 00:16:22.909 behind me, what hits me is a plethora of different requirements that are sometimes 249 00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:26.549 similar but often very distinct and different. You know, when you're trying to 250 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:30.870 retain a customer who's unhappy with a certain service, whether it's a logical and 251 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:36.259 happiness or an illogical unhappiness. You need to know how to diffuse that bomb 252 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:38.299 and you need to be able to teach that skill set. When you're out 253 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:41.059 there and you're doing business development and a customer comes back as a well, 254 00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:45.220 there's a competitor with a better price. Your one lever can't be moving your 255 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:48.289 price. You need to be able to sell on value. You need to 256 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.450 be able to do that level of business consulting that allows them to make a 257 00:16:52.529 --> 00:16:56.730 business outcome type decision as opposed to simply a price decision. That probably got 258 00:16:56.809 --> 00:17:00.009 them into the situation there and to be evaluating you in the first place. 259 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:03.759 And then when you're sitting there talking to marketing and you're saying, Hey, 260 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.119 we're about to go and launch in this new geography, let's do it the 261 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:08.680 exact same way, and you sit back and you say, who are the 262 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.400 buyers? What are the size of businesses? You start doing the firmographic profiling 263 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.630 in there to really understand it. If you don't know to ask those questions 264 00:17:17.670 --> 00:17:21.630 or to pull back into those layers and you're going to fail because you're just 265 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:25.069 going to run straightforward into everything and you're going to trip over every hurdle in 266 00:17:25.109 --> 00:17:29.950 your way. Absolutely. Man, you mentioned something. They're about handling different 267 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:34.700 requests that have maybe a similar theme, but they're very different from account management 268 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:40.660 and CS two sales into marketing and over these last eighteen months, I would 269 00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:45.369 love to hear from you what your plan of attack was, how you prioritize. 270 00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:49.329 You know now you've got three major functions that all have a huge impact 271 00:17:49.410 --> 00:17:53.210 on revenue rolling up to you. Where do you begin? Take us through 272 00:17:53.809 --> 00:17:57.529 the process there and maybe some things you wish you would have known. So 273 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.759 what did you do and what what do you wish you would have done in 274 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.079 setting your priorities and then figuring out what needs attention and how do I address 275 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.359 all three of these areas effectively and not leave one, you know, kind 276 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:17.829 of hanging out to dry when you're splitting attention really across these three connected but 277 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:23.269 but, as you said, still very distinct functions within the business. I 278 00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:26.259 think in any leadership position, when you walk in, your first thing you 279 00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:30.380 have to do is evaluate. You need to go and look, listen and 280 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:33.980 learn, and I spent the first ninety days doing just that. You know, 281 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:37.220 I traveled with our I spend a lot of time in Toronto, going 282 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:40.819 based in Calgary, and I spent even more time in Toronto getting to know 283 00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:45.369 the team's understand the people, the process of technology, what are the float 284 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.569 workflows were using? Who are customers? Talking to our customers, talking to 285 00:18:48.650 --> 00:18:51.930 our partners and really get getting to know the business. I mean, if 286 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:53.690 you're not knowledgeable about business, how that, how the hell can you add 287 00:18:53.690 --> 00:18:57.160 value in the decision making matrix? You know, there were decisions that needed 288 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:00.119 to be made within those first ninety days, but they're very much blind decisions 289 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.319 and your you know, I was leaning on our CEO to help me make 290 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.200 those decisions as we went after the first ninety days. I you know, 291 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:12.470 if you're worth your salt, you've you've gathered enough information. You're senior enough 292 00:19:12.470 --> 00:19:15.829 that you've you know who's who in the zoo. You you have an idea 293 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:19.470 of what you want. You've planned with your executive team to hear their gripes 294 00:19:19.549 --> 00:19:23.069 about the problems from on high and you've talked to your teams about the problems 295 00:19:23.109 --> 00:19:26.900 from on low. So you've got a pretty good depiction comes down to setting 296 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:32.259 a strategy and starting execute and and being willing to make mistakes and being willing 297 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:34.019 to own those mistakes. I mean, the busiest time in my entire life, 298 00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:37.380 I would say, was was last year and I joke with my friends, 299 00:19:37.809 --> 00:19:41.730 none of them Sami. Last year I was I was non existent my 300 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:44.930 white when I was at home, my wife got all of the time that 301 00:19:45.049 --> 00:19:47.890 I was here. Other than that, I was on the road probably sixty 302 00:19:47.970 --> 00:19:51.210 percent of the time. Because when you're going to make change, you have 303 00:19:51.329 --> 00:19:53.359 to own that change. You can't be half in the water, and I 304 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.039 see leaders do this all the time. I've dictated this change to it should 305 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.039 happen. That doesn't work. You need to roll your sleeves up, you 306 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.880 need to get in the trenches and you need to start digging with the team 307 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.039 and show them that you're all in. So for me, you know, 308 00:20:07.349 --> 00:20:11.269 I just prioritize. That plan included prioritization. Which one of these groups is 309 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:17.470 the furthest away from our end goal and where I want them to be in 310 00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:21.230 terms of people, process technology? Which one of these groups is the most 311 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:26.460 critical in terms of customer you know, retaining current customers, because that's that's 312 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:30.980 the bread that's feeding the family right now, bringing new customers in. That's 313 00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:33.940 the bread that that makes up, you know, future meals and then everything 314 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:37.329 in between. So I prioritize and I said, you know, Group A 315 00:20:38.329 --> 00:20:41.049 needs to be dealt with first, and that that really came down to the 316 00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:48.329 generation of new quality business, which for us was okay. But okay is 317 00:20:48.369 --> 00:20:52.680 not good enough when when you know I've got a forty five percent growth number, 318 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:56.000 sitting on my back, okay is not going to get me there. 319 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.880 I just wasted three months getting to know the business. I now only have 320 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.279 nine months to execute on this. So I started fixing that engine first and 321 00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:07.710 and it was a complete oil change. It was from leader straight through it. 322 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:10.869 Almost every member of that team, along with the processes, the tools 323 00:21:10.910 --> 00:21:14.029 and everything that they did. As soon as that got to eighty percent in, 324 00:21:14.069 --> 00:21:17.069 the leader was in place and we agreed on the twenty percent. Move 325 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.220 on to the next piece, and the next piece was the customer retention side. 326 00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:22.700 So it was you know, we were doing a good job. They're 327 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:25.579 goods, not good enough when you have customers. We live in an age 328 00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:30.940 with lower barriers to entry than ever before. We're customers expect, not to 329 00:21:30.099 --> 00:21:36.250 be. You know, people confuse gifting with great customer service and I think 330 00:21:36.289 --> 00:21:40.210 there's a lot of companies that are out there that send pancakes and and hats 331 00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:44.809 and swag and they think our customers love us. Not. Your customer didn't 332 00:21:44.849 --> 00:21:48.079 pay you for swag. They like it. It's a nice little incentive, 333 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:51.759 but your customers buying cake. Not Icing, icing is part of it and 334 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.839 we needed to fix the cake, which meant, you know, we do 335 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.720 amazing reporting, that customers were never getting or, when they were getting it, 336 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:02.230 nobody was walking through. So it came down to leadership over there. 337 00:22:02.589 --> 00:22:07.670 We need to systematically approach us and prescriptively handle customer success and customer care. 338 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:11.470 Once that was in place, and we got that to eighty percent, it 339 00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:15.589 was time to focus in on the pieces in between. So it came down 340 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.019 to solution, design and marketing it. We're in the midst right now of 341 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:22.339 a rebranding and remarketing effort and it's not because I want to put my stamp 342 00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:26.380 on it, it's because I've given a couple hundred, I would probably say 343 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:33.009 a thousand presentations to either existing customers new prospects. I've gained feedback from every 344 00:22:33.089 --> 00:22:37.369 major partner that we have and hundreds of existing customers and we're taking that voice 345 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:41.369 in and we're wrapping that into our messaging, because our messaging up until this 346 00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:45.799 point time has been good but not great. It's been focused on us and 347 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.359 our products and our value and our story, when we all know it's it's 348 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.319 a hundred percent about the customer. It's the story that matters to you. 349 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.720 It's the situation that you're in. It's what's happening within in our field technology, 350 00:22:57.670 --> 00:23:00.829 what the risk is to your business, what that, you know, 351 00:23:02.029 --> 00:23:04.710 the Holy Grail or that perfect scenario looks like and how we help you get 352 00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:07.309 there. And again we have to tell that twice. We have to tell 353 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:11.309 that for partners and then we have to extend that for partners to take to 354 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.259 customers. So it's been a lot of work, but it's been very rewarding. 355 00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:15.579 I mean there's a white or call of stuff that's left to do. 356 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:19.259 Yes, yes, I mean I got to tip my cap to you because 357 00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:23.059 you mentioned leader like you. Can't just be that sales leader who doesn't understand 358 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:27.730 marketing and doesn't understand CS. We can't be that marketing leader that doesn't understand 359 00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:33.809 how, how sales are managed in negotiation and and account management. And you 360 00:23:33.930 --> 00:23:37.609 know I hear things and what you're saying that obviously show that you spent the 361 00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:42.039 time getting involved with marketing then leading marketing well before you jumped into the CR 362 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:47.319 ro roll. You know where I see experience marketing leaders getting it wrong and 363 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.640 they're not following the advice of folks that we look up to in marketing like 364 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.640 Donald Miller and story brand. You're not the hero of the story. You 365 00:23:55.710 --> 00:23:59.029 know the breakdown of Zora's best sales deck. Ever, will link to that 366 00:23:59.150 --> 00:24:02.029 in the show notes. It's exactly what you're talking about. How do you 367 00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:04.990 help the customers reach the Holy Grail? How do you help them reach the 368 00:24:06.109 --> 00:24:10.180 Promised Land? How do you paint the picture of the risk of not getting 369 00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:12.940 to the Promised Land? And the Promised Land isn't where you deliver your technology 370 00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:18.019 or your product or your service. They are Luke Skywalker. You're just giving 371 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:21.660 them the lightsaber to do what they need to do right anyhow, I love 372 00:24:21.740 --> 00:24:25.289 that man. If we want to round out the conversation today with one piece 373 00:24:25.329 --> 00:24:29.210 of advice for someone who is new in a CR ro roll, about to 374 00:24:29.329 --> 00:24:33.529 be or they're thinking about establishing this role of the CR row in their organization 375 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.250 for the first time. What would be that one piece of advice you've got 376 00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:41.920 for them today? So many people are going to dislike me after I see 377 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:47.799 this higher from the outside. I honestly, I I sit back and I 378 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.039 think of it. If I was still running my old chop I would have 379 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:55.029 to hire from the outside. You need to bring in fresh blood that has 380 00:24:55.069 --> 00:25:00.990 not been indoctrinated already into what was because once you introduce a crow and and 381 00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:06.349 and they're given the proper autonomy and power and and voice, they can be 382 00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:08.819 a game changer. But only if they're given that that room for movement, 383 00:25:08.859 --> 00:25:12.140 and if they come from within your company. They've drank the Kool aid too 384 00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:18.180 long ago. Like whether whether people admit it or not, they're ingrained into 385 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:21.140 here's how we did it, this is how we got here, this is 386 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:26.450 why we're successful and and there's no there's no validation, whereas if you bring 387 00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:30.809 somebody in from the outside, not only you're getting their experience, you're getting 388 00:25:30.809 --> 00:25:34.410 their mind, sure you getting that that cumulative knowledge that then attaches itself to 389 00:25:34.490 --> 00:25:38.839 your business. You're getting somebody who is not attached to the people not attached 390 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.440 to the process, not attached to the technology. They're only attached to the 391 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.839 outcome. And I think for me at Jole era, I've been able to 392 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.430 be attached to the outcome. I love my team and I think my team 393 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:52.710 quite likes me as well, and I you know, I leave that up 394 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:55.549 to them, but they know that I'm attached to the outcome. So I'm 395 00:25:55.549 --> 00:25:59.190 going to hold them at you know, measurement, Inspection and accountability or our 396 00:25:59.269 --> 00:26:00.950 core tenets of what we do. We have a hell of a lot of 397 00:26:02.029 --> 00:26:04.059 fun doing it, but the outcome is the thing that matters most to me 398 00:26:04.180 --> 00:26:07.779 and if we have fun failing, it won't be fun for Very Long. 399 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:12.900 If we have fun succeeding and we're all dedicated to that outcome. It starts 400 00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:15.180 with me. It ends with me. I report up to our CEO and 401 00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:18.170 if it's not working, it's going to be my ass on the line. 402 00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:22.089 It's not going to be anybody else's. So my recommendation, and a lot 403 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:23.650 of people be mad at me for saying this, hire I'm from the outside, 404 00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:29.009 hire that person from the outside and and I'll throw another one in there, 405 00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:32.089 and this is gonna really make a lot of people mad to the Best 406 00:26:32.130 --> 00:26:37.160 Cros that I've seen, the ones that have probably the best holistic perspective, 407 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:42.960 are the female Cros and, and I hate to break it into the sexes, 408 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:48.430 but they come in, they're not competing, they're just coming into achieve 409 00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:55.349 and and as males, we we oftentime are bread to to viciously compete internal 410 00:26:55.470 --> 00:27:00.950 on external, whereas our female counterparts come in with a level of maturity that 411 00:27:00.029 --> 00:27:03.579 we often don't have. And it's something you know, I think a lot 412 00:27:03.619 --> 00:27:07.339 of the mentors around me, and they're female. There's people like Karen Brookman 413 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:11.180 that I I lean on heavily because, you know, they're able to share 414 00:27:11.339 --> 00:27:15.539 with me a perspective that doesn't have to do with me beating Logan, me 415 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.690 being better than somebody else, and that's where I would look. That's my 416 00:27:18.809 --> 00:27:22.289 personal opinion. It's interesting, man. I know that there will be people 417 00:27:22.329 --> 00:27:26.009 who agree and disagree with with both of those takes, but I think you 418 00:27:26.170 --> 00:27:30.920 did a great job of articulating how you how you got to those and I 419 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:36.119 know I've seen research talking about, you know, where there are more women 420 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.759 in the in the sea suite within an organization. It has a different effect 421 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:48.829 because of their their approach to cooperation over competition. Competitions great, but as 422 00:27:48.950 --> 00:27:52.789 with anything, there's a pendulum right and we can it can swing too far. 423 00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:55.430 Well, Chris, this has been great, man. I loved here 424 00:27:55.470 --> 00:27:57.660 in your story. I loved here and how you guys came to the the 425 00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:03.380 realization of the CR ro role at Jolera. You guys have obviously been seeing 426 00:28:03.460 --> 00:28:07.299 tremendous success with it and I appreciate the the hot takes, even if a 427 00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:11.420 little bit controversial. Hey, that's where we start a good conversation. And 428 00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:15.849 most of all, I appreciate you, as our Canadian guest today, throwing 429 00:28:15.009 --> 00:28:18.130 on an nfl hat just for me. You know that I'm always sported with 430 00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:21.890 ember broncos hat. You give me a little Detroit lions just so we can 431 00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:25.250 talk a little bit of football before we jump in. So thanks so much 432 00:28:25.289 --> 00:28:27.240 today, man. Thanks, Logan, I really appreciate it, and great 433 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:30.240 work with tob growth and all the best of luck for you, James on 434 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:38.119 the team. Is the decisionmaker for your product or service a BEDB MARKETER? 435 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:44.470 Are you looking to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting? Consider becoming 436 00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:48.710 a cohost of BB growth this show is consistently ranked as a top one hundred 437 00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:52.750 podcast in the marketing category of Apple Podcasts, and the show gets more than 438 00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:57.980 a hundred and thirtyzero downloads each month. We've already done the work of building 439 00:28:59.019 --> 00:29:03.500 the audience, so you can focus on delivering incredible content to our listeners. 440 00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:07.299 If you're interested, email logan at sweetish Mediacom.