July 31, 2020

1307: How to Bring Together Brand, Demand and Experience to Generate Growth W/ Lisa Sharapata

In this episode we talk to Lisa Sharapata, VP of Demand Generation, and Content Strategy at 6sense.


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.910 Welcome back to BEDB growth. Dan Sanchez with sweet fish media, and today 2 00:00:09.269 --> 00:00:12.830 I'm joining with Lisa share a Potta, who is the VP of marketing at 3 00:00:12.869 --> 00:00:15.910 sixth sense. How was it going today, Lisa? That's going great. 4 00:00:15.990 --> 00:00:20.149 Thanks for having me. Certainly today we're going to be talking about how to 5 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:26.500 bring together brand demand and experience to generate growth, and before this show even 6 00:00:26.539 --> 00:00:29.460 started we're I was having a little pre interview with Lisa and I was just 7 00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:34.899 it was fun to meet a marketer who also had a background in graphic design, 8 00:00:34.899 --> 00:00:37.409 because I know that's that's where my background comes from, and always find 9 00:00:37.409 --> 00:00:41.969 it brings an interesting level of thinking. Lisa's a full stack marketer. She 10 00:00:42.090 --> 00:00:45.609 understands like the false scope, but brings it like the design background. So 11 00:00:46.009 --> 00:00:48.570 we're having so much fun on the pre pre interview I was like, Oh, 12 00:00:48.609 --> 00:00:51.280 we got to push pause and just just hit record right now. Is 13 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.679 I think this is going to be a fun episode as we jump into a 14 00:00:54.759 --> 00:01:02.240 bunch of different topics from branding and demand, but also from an ABM perspective, 15 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.709 because that's what sixth sense is focused on, is in that category as 16 00:01:04.750 --> 00:01:11.670 a platform and software for helping marketing teams lead their ABM efforts and one thing 17 00:01:11.709 --> 00:01:15.790 in particular that stood out the most was a question that Lisa proposed about what 18 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:22.099 to ask in order to know if your brand is strong, and I think 19 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:25.060 that was the question that I think we'll want to kick off the episode today. 20 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:26.780 And Lisa, can you tell us, like, what is the question 21 00:01:27.140 --> 00:01:32.379 people can be asking about their brands to know if it's if it's strong or 22 00:01:32.420 --> 00:01:34.530 if they should be concerned? What is that question? Who should they be 23 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:38.049 asking it to? Right? See, you can do a lot of research 24 00:01:38.090 --> 00:01:42.409 on this, but ultimately, if you ask your sales team when they go 25 00:01:42.569 --> 00:01:49.680 into a deal it what the perception is of the company going in the company's 26 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:55.519 brand, they'll tell you and you'll know pretty much, but you know thirty 27 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:00.280 seconds of their answer how s drawing your brand is. So I find all 28 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:06.230 the branding, so we're talking about brand demand and experiences that generate growth. 29 00:02:06.310 --> 00:02:09.469 I do find that almost find that a branding is all the stuff marketings trying 30 00:02:09.469 --> 00:02:13.150 to do on the front end to make it easy, essentially easier for sales 31 00:02:13.229 --> 00:02:15.580 to close close that gap. But I want to bring it back to like 32 00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:21.620 your beginning beginnings as a graphic designer, like why'd you get started in graphic 33 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:25.860 design and then how did you like move from graphic design into marketing? And 34 00:02:25.979 --> 00:02:30.370 then that will come bring it full circle back into brand and demand. Well, 35 00:02:30.449 --> 00:02:35.729 let me to say I see branding as or brand your brand, as 36 00:02:35.729 --> 00:02:40.370 a sum of all the touch points in the journey. And starting off as 37 00:02:40.409 --> 00:02:46.599 a creative, got a lot of requests for things like, let's say, 38 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:52.479 a product brochure, and you know, there was all this copy and all 39 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.800 this information and I'm trying to sort through it and figure out what to feature 40 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:00.909 and highlight and call out and make big and make small, and, you 41 00:03:00.030 --> 00:03:05.110 know, looking at it like what are they trying to get across and who's 42 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:10.189 the audience and what's the purpose of this piece right, and when ultimately started 43 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:15.139 to get into what's the business objective? What are they trying to accomplish here? 44 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:19.460 And so that, after the course of a couple years, led me 45 00:03:19.620 --> 00:03:23.900 Ta get more into the strategy, more and more onto the strategic side of 46 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:29.650 marketing and really look at the big picture of why you're doing something. And 47 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:34.729 now I strongly believe that form follows function. So what's Your Business objective? 48 00:03:35.169 --> 00:03:38.729 Than that should be your your brand strategy and your market strategy should be based 49 00:03:38.729 --> 00:03:43.960 off of that. So it's interesting as a designer, usually thinking about like 50 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.960 the experience and help people should feel, but now you bring a different perspective 51 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.039 now jumping into marketing. So like two questions. What should marketers be aware 52 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:58.229 of their graphic designers like? What that the about the perspectives of designers? 53 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:02.229 And then what are perspective designers have that are actually really helpful for marketing? 54 00:04:05.030 --> 00:04:10.460 Wow, that's feels like a trick question, but I'll do my bus answer. 55 00:04:11.659 --> 00:04:15.379 So, as a designer, I think you know. The first thing 56 00:04:15.500 --> 00:04:19.300 is is most designers are really passionate about the work that they're putting out and 57 00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:24.220 and they want it to look good and they want people to feel something when 58 00:04:24.259 --> 00:04:28.689 they see it. And now they like to be kind of cutting edge and 59 00:04:29.170 --> 00:04:34.250 have something interesting and unique. So it's really frustrating when marketer comes fans over 60 00:04:34.329 --> 00:04:39.319 their shoulder and says, can we make this logo bigger? Can we move 61 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:43.000 this over here? And again that's kind of where I always just got into 62 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:47.160 this what's the objective question, and I know, how about if I show 63 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.720 you three options once I understand it, to get them off my back. 64 00:04:53.269 --> 00:04:57.230 And so from a marketer's perspective. I think it helps to know that as 65 00:04:57.230 --> 00:05:00.949 if you truly explain the business o objective and the audience and what you're trying 66 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:06.660 to achieve. But the piece most you know talented graphic designers. They'll come 67 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:11.220 back to you as some options that will work for you and then make it 68 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:16.019 more of a collaborative effort if you're wanting to move some things around or combined 69 00:05:16.220 --> 00:05:19.259 two of their ideas and to one. But once, once they know what 70 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:25.529 they're trying to accomplish, they'll do a much better job for you. It's 71 00:05:25.610 --> 00:05:29.329 gold. I find that marketers and designers are like have two different world views 72 00:05:29.370 --> 00:05:32.410 and often clash when trying to get things down, but both that both perspectives 73 00:05:32.410 --> 00:05:36.839 are really helpful, especially when you're talking about branding. Marketers bring an interesting 74 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:41.240 viewpoint as well as designers, and need to work together in order to make 75 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:45.399 that brand strong out there. As you developed in your career path and in 76 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.990 marketing, you eventually to discovered ABM. What led to that way? How 77 00:05:50.029 --> 00:05:53.790 did that become a need for you, and then how do you develop it 78 00:05:53.910 --> 00:06:00.149 in your company? Yeah, so started dabbling at this and tear data like 79 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:03.620 almost seven years ago now. But where it really saw it come to life 80 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:10.180 was a couple years ago when I was at a Primo and we were looking 81 00:06:10.220 --> 00:06:17.810 at how to re work the customer journey and rescore MPL's and basically trying to 82 00:06:17.889 --> 00:06:23.209 reconfigure what we were already doing again because we weren't hitting our revenue numbers. 83 00:06:23.730 --> 00:06:29.410 So his started looking at this and like noticing some trends that we were getting 84 00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:32.959 into, feels too late, that the conversions on our website were low and 85 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:38.959 that there were it wasn't just lead based anymore. There was multiple people within 86 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:45.240 the account that needed to be bought in to make a purchase decision and that 87 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.750 we were really focused on, you know, just a couple different personas, 88 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:53.470 and that we really needed to be thinking a little bit more broad across the 89 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:58.269 account. How we going to bring everyone together to make a decision, you 90 00:06:58.430 --> 00:07:01.860 know, on our purchase. So that's when we started looking and doing more 91 00:07:01.899 --> 00:07:08.139 research on account based marketing. Man, it is become more and more fascinated 92 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:11.420 to me. I have been a marketer for long time, but doing in 93 00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:17.449 bound and doing content, been split testing automation sequences and landing pages and actually 94 00:07:17.490 --> 00:07:21.490 have like account base marketing for dummies, literally sitting on my desk right now 95 00:07:21.529 --> 00:07:25.569 because I'm still getting it's like a whole new world to be, a whole 96 00:07:25.610 --> 00:07:29.209 new concept. So I still have a lot to learn. One thing I've 97 00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:31.360 heard you, you saying, I think on a different show or youtube video 98 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.120 out there somewhere, is that the m the MQL, is dead, like 99 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:39.399 it shouldn't even be a thing anymore. Tell me a little bit about that 100 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:41.519 and I think I might argue with you for a little bit and it could 101 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.829 be fun. Okay, this will be fun. Yeah, so this is 102 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:51.670 something that, again back to the whole we weren't making our numbers and you 103 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:57.110 know, the board of directors and the CEO or asking for more mpl's, 104 00:07:57.230 --> 00:08:01.259 more MPL's. Marketing needs to contribute, you know, twenty percent more m 105 00:08:01.259 --> 00:08:03.779 q wels and in two thousand and nineteen, right, and I'm like, 106 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:07.220 well, there's one way I could do that. That would be I'll just 107 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:11.500 score the content higher. Right, so if fifty points is the threshold to 108 00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:16.689 make them an MPL, I'll just make you know instead of it having to 109 00:08:16.769 --> 00:08:20.769 be three reports they download, I'll just make everything twenty five points and then 110 00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:24.490 it'll be two reports. That they have to tell right. So you there's 111 00:08:24.649 --> 00:08:28.399 it's a finger in the wind metric, and so I started there and just 112 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:35.159 backing people out and saying that just because someone's fill out of form doesn't mean 113 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.799 they're ready to buy or that they're in the right buyings, you know, 114 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:45.549 stage to make a decision. And how do I know that? Because I 115 00:08:45.710 --> 00:08:48.389 talked to someone at this event. They're more valuable than if they downloaded this 116 00:08:48.509 --> 00:08:54.269 report. So how do you score that? To me that's all guesswork and 117 00:08:54.269 --> 00:08:58.940 it's kind of a vanity metric, just like someone liking my post. What 118 00:09:00.220 --> 00:09:05.700 do you really do with that number? So fast forward like eighteen months later. 119 00:09:05.500 --> 00:09:09.850 We brought in six cents at a premo, and the whole purpose of 120 00:09:09.970 --> 00:09:15.769 that was to be able to get into what we called the dark funnel earlier. 121 00:09:15.929 --> 00:09:18.850 So, as I've mentioned, we were getting into deals too late, 122 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:22.250 and so one of the things we needed to do to sell start solving for 123 00:09:22.370 --> 00:09:28.440 that was no when people were ready to buy earlier, and so that's where 124 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.320 we brought in this technology to give us the intent. If someone started searching 125 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.120 for digital asset management, which was a product that we sold, in a 126 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.870 common search term, we would know before they even came to our website, 127 00:09:39.950 --> 00:09:43.029 that they were starting to show signs of life, that they were interested. 128 00:09:43.470 --> 00:09:46.830 They didn't have to fill out a form for that. There was no metric 129 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:52.750 to measure it besides the predictive analytics that was happening, you know, with 130 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:56.659 six sens to show us that not only was this person in the account searching 131 00:09:56.779 --> 00:10:01.659 for that, but maybe another person the account was searching for something else relevant, 132 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:05.100 and putting all of this data together to predict where they were in the 133 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:11.809 buying stage. Thus like moving every thing up so much earlier and giving us 134 00:10:11.809 --> 00:10:18.490 a chance to start shaping their opinions with our brand, with our messaging, 135 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.840 with the right experiences, at the right time, you know, before they 136 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.240 started researching our competitors, before they were ready to do an RFP, we 137 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.360 could get into those deals, and so that changed everything, and being able 138 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:41.190 to measure intent and measure things like how long it takes for them to then 139 00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:48.149 convert into pipeline and what percentage of those accounts showing intent were converting into pipeline 140 00:10:48.669 --> 00:10:54.539 started to become much more valuable to us than a marketing qualified beat. Yeah, 141 00:10:54.700 --> 00:11:00.419 yeah, for sure. One thing I have noticed in almost every situation 142 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:05.250 I've been in as that marketings usually in trouble for something. marketings usually in 143 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:09.330 trouble because they're not producing enough leads and if they're producing a lot of leads, 144 00:11:09.330 --> 00:11:13.210 they're not good enough quality. There's always that battle mart like I'm like, 145 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.169 I'm always in trouble for something, like how come you guys are never 146 00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:18.840 happy over there in the sales team, right, but at the same time 147 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.200 sales is over there being like yeah, but you don't have to hit the 148 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.559 quotas we have to try to make over here. You're not under the gun 149 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:26.360 like we are to produce, because we really get hammered if we don't make 150 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:33.230 our quotas right. So give us better leads and more of them. Always 151 00:11:33.669 --> 00:11:37.870 it was the classic scenario. But those reasons why that switch from graphic design 152 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:43.269 to sales. I wouldn't want those quotas, unless maybe you have a really 153 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:48.139 good marketing and sales integration and you actually work together. Then it starts to 154 00:11:48.139 --> 00:11:50.899 become more fun. earlist. I've heard some sales people say that I agree 155 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:54.700 that the point system, like rating a lead based on points, based on 156 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:58.580 their actions. I've tried it over and over and I've just given up on 157 00:11:58.740 --> 00:12:03.649 points like rating a hotness of a lead and then kicking it off. I 158 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:05.529 tend to find, and this is my own I don't know if other people 159 00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:09.009 are doing this, but this is what I've found a work work, is 160 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:13.450 that I try to create a lead magnet of some kind that indicates buying intent. 161 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:16.679 For a lot of software companies that's like the classic demo. I usually, 162 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:18.960 as a marketer, try to load it up with some value add and 163 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.159 there, so if they don't walk away from the Demo, they're they're pretty 164 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:28.039 happy to generate more of them. But even things like requesting sales information, 165 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:33.309 anything that like indicates to me that they're they're they're in a buying intent, 166 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:37.309 and usually I'm trying to generate leads, of course with quality content, but 167 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:41.269 then I'm trying to nurture them and throwing a right hook and there to get 168 00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:45.379 to for them to request that information. Whether it's a demo, free consultation, 169 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:48.659 I don't know. That's just kind of been my my one two punches 170 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.059 a marketer for a long time. So I think we're almost on the same 171 00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:56.700 page as far as like just don't don't score marketing leads and then just hope 172 00:12:56.740 --> 00:13:01.330 sales can convert them or your SDR can then qualify them for sales. You 173 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.330 got to do something a little bit more. What would you think about that 174 00:13:05.409 --> 00:13:09.649 approach? Is that closer, more closely aligned with where what you guys are 175 00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:11.919 doing, or is it just a different idea out there? Yeah, so 176 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.799 I think that we're saying similar things. Mean, the idea being that with 177 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:26.509 intent data you are able to move up earlier in the buyers journey to start 178 00:13:26.549 --> 00:13:33.590 getting them content, to start solving problems for them. But I call like 179 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:37.350 micro moments where you have the right content at the right time, right with 180 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:41.860 for the right person all along their journey. But but doing that so much 181 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:48.659 earlier, you're not waiting for them to in bound and then hitting them with 182 00:13:48.860 --> 00:13:54.460 stuff. You know that they're searching for keyword, like I said, digital 183 00:13:54.500 --> 00:14:01.129 asset management. So or maybe they're serving searching for something like I can't find 184 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:05.009 my images, how to ill a long tail. But you know they've got 185 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.169 a problem that they're trying to solve, and so knowing what that problem is, 186 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.200 when you do your outreach or when you make sure you've got the right 187 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:18.519 landing page set up for you know, and a banner ad that's taking them 188 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.360 to that, because you know they were searching for these things, and then 189 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.070 you've got the right content on that landing page based on you know who they 190 00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:30.509 are and what account they're in. And I mean the technology, which now 191 00:14:30.590 --> 00:14:35.190 is amazing, like Uber Flip. We have this personalizer. We can we 192 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:39.179 know where an account is in the journey and we can start up different content 193 00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:43.139 just based on WHO's coming in to the site. So you're making sure that 194 00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:48.059 you're really relevant with your information, but also where they are in their journey. 195 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:50.820 So you know. So we don't even have forms anymore, if I'm 196 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:56.690 hearing you right, it's almost ABM in, and tools like six cents give 197 00:14:56.889 --> 00:15:01.049 sales the ability to kind of help marketing on the front end. Like you 198 00:15:01.169 --> 00:15:03.690 can actually reach out to people and help them on a one to one basis 199 00:15:03.730 --> 00:15:09.360 because you already have a defined account or a type of company you want to 200 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.120 work with and you can identify them a little bit earlier and hopefully drive them 201 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.480 to that point where they're now making buying questions. Is that right? Right. 202 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.960 So I'm glad you bring that up, so that it kind of goes 203 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.710 both ways. Right. First of all, sales and marketing, you need 204 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.350 to be more aligned than ever, which I can dig into and a second 205 00:15:26.309 --> 00:15:31.909 but from a marketing standpoint, yes, you still need to know your total 206 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:37.500 addressable market and and who's your, you know, ideal customer profile. But 207 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:41.299 then let's say you've got a hundred and fifty thousand accounts that meet those two 208 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:48.379 qualifications. If you lay on tap this intent data, who's actually in market 209 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:54.169 right now? WHO's searching? And it's twenty fivezero accounts, it is so 210 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.769 much easier to focus your energy and time those twenty fivezero accounts that are already 211 00:15:58.809 --> 00:16:03.919 in market than it is on a hundred and fiftyzero accounts. So right there 212 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:10.120 are you're, you know, chances of landing and converting those accounts, you 213 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.759 know, so much greater. And then, on the plus side, if 214 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:18.590 you work backwards, right was sales and they're identifying here's the top a hundred 215 00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:23.309 tier one and tier two counts that we want to go after, and then 216 00:16:23.429 --> 00:16:30.190 marketing can utilize an account based marketing approach and help them along the way, 217 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:36.539 but also have this intent data and predictive insights into what are these accounts doing 218 00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.539 right now? Where are they in their journey? What are they searching for? 219 00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:42.820 So I now know as a marketer, how to partner with my sales 220 00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:48.049 team to move them along, you know, in their journey, faster and 221 00:16:48.129 --> 00:16:52.690 more efficiently and build that relationship with them, you know, from the from 222 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:56.090 the get go. So you've said Something Multiple Times that I love to dig 223 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:03.279 deeper into, and that is the predictive insights. How is the software predicting 224 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:06.680 where they're at? I know enough about Ai to know that it needs a 225 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.279 lot of data in order to make reasonable guesses and it for to learn and 226 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.750 to make good insights. I've been really skeptic of the whole ai trend. 227 00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:21.950 Right now, I'm like Ai, like just do the basics better than it's. 228 00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:26.109 Ai has been like a fancy word out there, but if it's actually 229 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:30.980 giving good insights and it's actually helping marketers identify the right people at the right 230 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.900 place, how is it learning and how is it actually producing those insights? 231 00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:38.700 YEA, so it's going to take all of your first Party and third party 232 00:17:40.420 --> 00:17:45.890 data, all of the historic intent signals, everything from that account, and 233 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:52.690 it's going to continue to monitor and analyze the changes in those things every single 234 00:17:52.769 --> 00:17:55.809 day. And, you know, then there's all the magic on the back 235 00:17:55.849 --> 00:17:59.920 end. That is taking crunching all those numbers and all that data and saying 236 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:06.519 this is where this account is from a marketing or sales view. It just 237 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:11.359 it puts it into four buckets. So there's awareness, consideration, decision and 238 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:17.750 purchase. And at six cents we found some trends whereas if someone's in an 239 00:18:17.789 --> 00:18:22.910 awareness stage, they're just starting to show signs of life. So that means 240 00:18:22.910 --> 00:18:27.700 that someone started searching for a keyword in that account, like intent, data 241 00:18:27.740 --> 00:18:33.900 might be the keyword right. And then if multiple people from the account start 242 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:40.140 searching, and let's say they may be search your competitors name or your name, 243 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:45.930 that starts to move them into this consideration bucket. When a majority of 244 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:51.529 the people and in the account have come to your website. And again, 245 00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:53.690 this isn't exactly how it works, but this is how we've broke it down 246 00:18:53.690 --> 00:18:57.640 into data. But when they've come to the website and they're they're searching what 247 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:02.640 we call brand of key words, which is like your competitors, and then 248 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:06.240 you're like a general keywords, like I said, like content data, things 249 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:11.910 you saw for that means they're in decision and then, you know, purchase. 250 00:19:14.069 --> 00:19:18.470 Typically it's just take that and put it on steroids. So everyone's engaged 251 00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:22.589 their clicking on your ads and your emails and they're on your website all the 252 00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:26.740 time and looking for stuff you know, and they're in a decision purchase. 253 00:19:27.579 --> 00:19:33.180 So that's how it becomes very practical for a sales and marketing team to use 254 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:37.059 that information. So some of that information are you having to enter it into 255 00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:40.849 the the software platform itself, like, Oh, these are two types of 256 00:19:40.890 --> 00:19:45.210 keywords that indicate awareness. These are types of keywords that indicate brand. Do 257 00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:48.730 you have to go and tell it these are the competian brands that you're looking 258 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:52.849 for. You enter it in there. Interesting. So there's two categories. 259 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.759 There's generic and then there's branded, and maybe not the best words, but 260 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:02.200 branded would be things like your competitors. Yeah, they have a higher value 261 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:07.029 in the predictive modeling. Generic would be all of the other things that are 262 00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:11.230 problems you saw for that people might be searching for when they're looking for something 263 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:17.069 your company would help them with. Yeah, and so you do put those 264 00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:22.259 in and you have ultimate control over them and you can change them whenever you 265 00:20:22.339 --> 00:20:26.740 want. But it's really interesting to watch because they jump around all the time. 266 00:20:26.299 --> 00:20:32.380 It'll show you which ones are being searched for the most every day too, 267 00:20:32.619 --> 00:20:37.970 and so most keywords. They I've seen them last maybe three, four 268 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:41.769 weeks at the top and then something else POPs up. And but we use 269 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:45.569 that information to write because then, if I can see that this must be 270 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:48.930 a new trending topic, everyone was searching for predictive analytics, but now they're 271 00:20:48.930 --> 00:20:53.279 searching for intent data. Well, I need to make sure I got more 272 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:59.480 content for intent data because I was focusing on predictive and so you know, 273 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.400 we use that information and marketing as well to make sure we've got the right 274 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.789 content and information to share. But the people who are searching. Yeah, 275 00:21:08.630 --> 00:21:15.069 so we've been talking a lot about ABM and predictive insights, but I want 276 00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:18.420 to come back to our original conversation around brand demand in experience. So we 277 00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:22.859 all know like, okay, doing doing m qls the way most be to 278 00:21:22.900 --> 00:21:26.859 be. Marketing teams are using MQLS. It's clearly not working. Sales is 279 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:30.740 not happy and marketing and sales aren't getting along because of it. We know 280 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:33.769 that's that's just it's not working. So we have to try different things when 281 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:38.130 it comes to creating a brand and kind of I like to think about it 282 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.890 as almost creating like an ecosystem out there in the world so that people are 283 00:21:42.650 --> 00:21:45.609 bumping into your brand all over the place in a favorable way. Right. 284 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:52.440 What can brands be doing in order to create a better brand out there, 285 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.720 drive more demand and ultimately have a better experience throughout the whole thing? So 286 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.200 you can so you can generate growth. Are there some practical steps our audience 287 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.630 can take this week even to to do that better, or at least like 288 00:22:04.869 --> 00:22:10.150 maybe first baby steps? We can do that right? Well, I've go 289 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.029 back to the beginning and say that the first thing you need to do is 290 00:22:12.190 --> 00:22:17.940 figure out if your brand's desirable. And you know what, when you ask 291 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:19.900 your sales team, are they like, Oh, yeah, everyone loves our 292 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:23.940 brand, it's killer, or is there a lot of work to do there? 293 00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:26.779 And if there is work to do there, you need to start figuring 294 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:32.450 out why. And you can do things like ask existing customers why did they 295 00:22:32.529 --> 00:22:34.970 buy purchase from you, or, if you do any win loss analysis, 296 00:22:36.410 --> 00:22:42.210 why didn't someone buy from you? Might be even more insightful and ask the 297 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:47.000 questions like what do they think about the brand, and that'll give you a 298 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:52.240 lot of insight into where you need to start. But from there, I 299 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.640 think most importantly, to people sometimes skip the stuff. But I feel like 300 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:02.750 a brand is living, breathing, organic part of the company culture and it 301 00:23:02.910 --> 00:23:07.750 really starts from the inside out. And so making sure that you're everyone in 302 00:23:07.829 --> 00:23:14.380 your company understands what you stand for and what you're trying to accomplish and they 303 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.619 him put their own perspective on it, because each role is going to serve 304 00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:22.220 a different purpose. But the some of all of that and the experiences that 305 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:27.450 are then created externally are what is going to create your brand. And if 306 00:23:27.569 --> 00:23:32.849 one person has a bad perception of your brand and has a bad experience, 307 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.410 we all know how fast that can spread like wildfire. All these days with 308 00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:41.640 ttwo and all the other opportunities people have to bash your brand. So you 309 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.200 know, you really need to be buttoned up and make sure that everyone is 310 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.920 on the same page there to get started. So evaluating where the brand is, 311 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:52.559 and I loved this. I think the thing that I took away that 312 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.789 I'm like, man, I could do this. I could do this today 313 00:23:55.789 --> 00:24:00.589 if I really wanted to. Just sitting down with a customer or prospect or 314 00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:06.150 even better, as someone you lost at the when lost stage and asking them 315 00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:08.349 what do you think about our brand? I've sat down and I actually I've 316 00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:11.980 done a lot of informal interviews and I don't know if I've ever asked that 317 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.660 particular question. Would and I'm now I'm really curious. I'm going to go 318 00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:18.099 ask some customers this week, or at least maybe next week, since we're 319 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:22.180 almost at the end of this one, what what they think about our brand 320 00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:26.650 for the podcast and the company, Sweet Fish Media. So that's really good. 321 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:30.250 But it's more. It's more than just having a strong brand. It's 322 00:24:30.369 --> 00:24:33.890 from the inside out. So it's you have all these things, you have 323 00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:37.250 good core values, you pump people, know what your differentiators are and what 324 00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:41.599 how you want people to feel when they hit the brand. What else can 325 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.759 companies be doing in order to create better experiences out there as they're just beginning 326 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:52.519 to search for solutions to their problem? Right? So, I mean from 327 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.910 there I'd start to look at where you have gaps, and that's where data 328 00:24:56.109 --> 00:25:00.230 starts to become really helpful. So do you have high bounced rates on your 329 00:25:00.269 --> 00:25:04.029 home page or some of your major landing pages? That can be a clue 330 00:25:04.150 --> 00:25:10.980 that maybe people aren't finding what they're looking for. Or you know, banner 331 00:25:11.059 --> 00:25:15.819 ads and display there don't have the highest click through rates, but take a 332 00:25:15.859 --> 00:25:18.900 look at on where they really super low or they average or they hire. 333 00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:23.529 You know, you want to make sure you're putting your best foot forward from 334 00:25:23.569 --> 00:25:29.849 the very beginning and again kind of back to then gaps. Right. Are 335 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:32.849 you converting on your website? Are they spending a lot of time on a 336 00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:37.640 page but then not doing anything? Are they coming back for more information? 337 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.519 That will give you some ideas about what you need to do next to make 338 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.039 sure that you've got kind of, like I said, these right micro moments 339 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:52.430 and creating these good experiences for people are finding value in their searches with your 340 00:25:52.589 --> 00:25:57.029 brand, because that, ultimately is what's going to lead them to want to 341 00:25:57.069 --> 00:26:00.230 learn more from you, to request a Demot if you're willing to talk to 342 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:06.019 your sales team, all that good stuff. Almost think like you can almost 343 00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:07.900 chop it up into the different channels right like search here, like are you 344 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:11.940 being found for the key are are you ranking for the keywords in your industry? 345 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:15.819 Bottom of the phonel on top of the funnel. socials kind of interesting 346 00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:18.210 because it's not as much of a it's harder to drive. Almost wonder if 347 00:26:18.250 --> 00:26:22.130 you can divide it by like the key players, and that your niche. 348 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:26.569 Are they talking about you? How would you rate social engagement? Like our 349 00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:32.650 people engaged with your brand at all? You know that that should give you 350 00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:37.319 some sort of an indication on if they have any brand affinity, if they're 351 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.519 finding any value and what you're posting versus, you know, a whole bunch 352 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:47.150 of likes that don't convert to any type of a conversation. Don't attribute to 353 00:26:48.029 --> 00:26:51.509 then a you know, going to your website to look to find out more 354 00:26:51.509 --> 00:26:55.069 about you. I agree, that is big ice. I see a lot 355 00:26:55.109 --> 00:26:57.950 of brands posting to Linkedin, especially to their company pages, which I hardly 356 00:26:59.029 --> 00:27:00.619 ever see actually, because no one, I don't if you post to a 357 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:03.339 company page, I don't know why, I just never gets found. I 358 00:27:03.380 --> 00:27:07.099 don't know what's up with company pages. Because of that, we actually started 359 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.099 all posting to our personal profiles and I've noticed a lot of companies starting to 360 00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:14.779 use individuals, their VPS, their directors, usually marketing team, some sales 361 00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:18.089 teams too, though. That's why. Yeah, what else could it be 362 00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:21.650 doing to change it? So we talked about little search, little social what 363 00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:25.650 are other places where they could be creating experiences? Yeah, well, I 364 00:27:25.730 --> 00:27:30.240 think that takes us to accountbase marketing. Indeed, to be I think that 365 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.359 this is going. You know, we have a spression at six TNS, 366 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:41.839 but ABM is just good marketing and I've seen that sentiment across the board with 367 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.589 most of like the players in the space who have adopted it, and that 368 00:27:47.509 --> 00:27:52.029 on average there's eight to nine buyers on a buyer committing in a b Tob 369 00:27:52.150 --> 00:27:55.950 sale these days. And you know, everything is really an account based motion. 370 00:27:56.789 --> 00:28:03.619 And so if you're not already thinking account based and more holistically, I'd 371 00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:07.339 start making a pivot to it. And if you are, I'd really start 372 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:10.980 to look at how you can scale, what's working, what's not working and 373 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:15.009 how to do it better. I almost feel like switching to account based marketing 374 00:28:15.049 --> 00:28:18.089 means you have to go and purchase account based marketing software like in order to 375 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:22.210 keep track of it and in play it. Well, but that's I mean, 376 00:28:22.250 --> 00:28:26.490 that's a huge, huge move a company has to make at least, 377 00:28:26.529 --> 00:28:30.039 and I could be wrong about that. What are some things that companies can 378 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.160 do to kind of like test to see if it works before making the big 379 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.880 commitment to then make it a lot easier to do. Is there something you 380 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:38.039 could do to kind of like test the waters, or is it kind of 381 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.910 like, well, you're all enter your you're not here's how I started. 382 00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:48.910 Started with sitting down with sales, selecting a hundred accounts that they wanted to 383 00:28:48.950 --> 00:28:52.829 go after and then building out a program for it, and we tracked it 384 00:28:52.910 --> 00:29:00.819 all with our map and crm. So we we took these a hundred accounts, 385 00:29:02.779 --> 00:29:08.019 we put a program together that included display ads linkedin google retargeting. We 386 00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:12.049 had a landing page specific to that account that we were taking them to with 387 00:29:12.529 --> 00:29:17.529 tailored information, you know, based on research we did on the account. 388 00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:19.690 And then, at that point we didn't even know what they were searching for, 389 00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:23.400 but we had a general idea of what people were looking for when they 390 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.240 bought from us. So we put our best content on the pages. You 391 00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:33.920 know, we took a industry lens to that helped us kind of break it 392 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:38.190 down so it was really relevant. And then we had an outbound motion with 393 00:29:40.109 --> 00:29:45.230 sales calls and emails that we put together and we did direct mail and that 394 00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:51.150 was a video card, and then we had a branded box with some relevant 395 00:29:51.150 --> 00:29:55.259 information, but also like some catchy, you know, cool fun campaign that 396 00:29:55.420 --> 00:30:02.299 tied into our messaging and we started there and we tracked the program again with 397 00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:06.940 our crm just to see are the conversion rates higher? Are we moving these 398 00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:11.410 deals faster? Are they closing for more? But more importantly for us, 399 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.410 it was the conversion rates because I got I was saying like we weren't hitting 400 00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:21.130 our revenue numbers and what we were getting with the mql to the s Al 401 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.000 in the funnel wasn't a high enough conversion rate to meet our revenue and so 402 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.559 once we started to see the results from that, that's when we decided we 403 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.480 need to double down on this. We need tend fasts in it, make 404 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:41.630 it easier to scale and measure outcomes. So fantastic in a digital age. 405 00:30:41.670 --> 00:30:45.630 I feel like direct mail specifically is like a secret superpower that people have like 406 00:30:45.750 --> 00:30:51.819 forgotten because it's old school. But take on them back to find people in 407 00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:56.420 the funnel and use direct mail either in mass to a heart a larger list, 408 00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:00.220 or even customizing it handwritten cards. You're like man like. I've have 409 00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:04.329 customers I have sent handwritten cards to and they still have the card. It's 410 00:31:04.369 --> 00:31:10.529 nuts. Doing those high touch, high touch things. What else should be 411 00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:14.690 to be marketers be aware of when it comes to creating demand out there, 412 00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:18.839 and actually Chris Walker has been talking a lot about this on his his platform 413 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.160 on Linkedin that demand, and I think this answers kind of like the original 414 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:23.839 question we set out, like how did be our people aware of the the 415 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.720 brand in the sale cycle? Is that he's like one of the ways you 416 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.390 can measure if you're creating demand or doing good marketing out there. It's how 417 00:31:33.509 --> 00:31:36.910 fast the sales velocity is once they hit sales. How long does it take 418 00:31:36.950 --> 00:31:38.230 him to get through, like the speed at which they can go through, 419 00:31:38.309 --> 00:31:41.990 usually because they're familiar with their brand. They know what value you bring. 420 00:31:42.269 --> 00:31:45.950 So the sale cycle becomes immensely more easy, easier for sales, but also 421 00:31:47.029 --> 00:31:52.980 just faster. What could other people be doing to make that sales velocity faster 422 00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:56.500 and just smoother for sales? Well, this kind of goes back to that 423 00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:00.339 alignment. Some of the things that we've put in place are what we call 424 00:32:00.450 --> 00:32:08.089 value cards, where we take those intent keywords the top. Right now there's 425 00:32:08.130 --> 00:32:15.839 six that we're focused on at six cents co figure and we break it down 426 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:22.279 with what content do you use at which stage for different personas, so that 427 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.359 the sales team really has the tools at their fingertips that they need, that 428 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.990 they're empowered to be able to help move things along faster, kind of back 429 00:32:30.029 --> 00:32:35.670 to that velocity, but it's really that true alignment so that the experience that 430 00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:43.670 you're creating is really fluid and it's feels like there's not this huge handoff from 431 00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:47.220 this stage to the stage, but that they're just kind of moving down this 432 00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:54.380 journey with you in a much more organic and positive way. Those types of 433 00:32:54.460 --> 00:32:59.490 things of really helped. Do you? Do you feel like there's a certain 434 00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:04.250 like price point a BB company has to be working in, or like a 435 00:33:04.410 --> 00:33:08.650 contract level price that ABM doesn't make sense for, you know, like if 436 00:33:08.650 --> 00:33:12.329 it's too lower, you're like, I don't care if they're signing it for 437 00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:15.599 a hundred dollar month software subscription, it still makes more sense. I've talked 438 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:24.359 to a couple companies that are still selling to like a mom and pop location. 439 00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:30.589 Like I've talked to this company that sells to dentist's office and they're looking 440 00:33:30.710 --> 00:33:35.710 to scale up to start selling to the chains of dentists. Like, you 441 00:33:35.789 --> 00:33:39.710 know, like an asked adventure or something where there's multiple in that case then 442 00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:44.420 maybem starts to come into play because there's more people in the buying committee. 443 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:49.339 But if you're still selling to one person and one person is the key decisionmaker, 444 00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:52.700 I think it's rare. But if that's the case, then a bum 445 00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:58.970 obviously doesn't make sense. You can just focus one to one, but there's 446 00:33:59.089 --> 00:34:01.289 a few and far between that I've seen that to still be the use case. 447 00:34:01.450 --> 00:34:07.009 That's happening out there. Yeah, I think there's an extreme side. 448 00:34:07.049 --> 00:34:10.280 I find sweet fish media is actually probably somewhere in the middle where our contract 449 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:15.480 sizes are between two thousand, usually between two thousand and four thousand dollars a 450 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:22.920 month and usually multiple people considering, but only two three, where it's kind 451 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:24.710 of like, Oh, do we go ABM or not? Like we end 452 00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:30.349 up we have such a wide audience of people that we can do create podcast 453 00:34:30.469 --> 00:34:32.949 for, but it ends up being a tricky thing to try to try to 454 00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:37.750 do. And this as the market I'm I'm sure not struggling, I'm wrestling 455 00:34:37.869 --> 00:34:39.820 and trying to figure out like how much of it to implement. So I'm 456 00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:44.059 actively on this churney. I thinking a lot of other people. Yeah, 457 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:46.579 I still think you need and I've seen us in people we partner with. 458 00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:52.059 Their still going to be more than one person. Somebody might bring in the 459 00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:54.730 idea, oh we should do something with sweetish, and then someone else is 460 00:34:54.769 --> 00:34:57.969 going to be like, oh, but I wanted to do something with this 461 00:34:58.210 --> 00:35:00.409 too, and you know, does it make sense to do both? And 462 00:35:00.570 --> 00:35:06.610 then there's usually like at least a tiebreaker and it's somebody who's had a good 463 00:35:06.610 --> 00:35:10.119 experience. You've already been on the podcast too. You know there's there's all 464 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:15.519 these different scenarios that could happen, but you've got to have like your champion. 465 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:20.159 And then there's usually the person who pushes it over, Yep, the 466 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:24.630 top. So you know, if it's a three person account based motion, 467 00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:30.349 I think it's still relevant to look at like what are the different pieces of 468 00:35:30.429 --> 00:35:36.820 the pie that you need to put together to get tys absolutely something I need 469 00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:39.460 to continue to dig into. Is there any final thoughts you have for the 470 00:35:39.659 --> 00:35:46.860 BB growth audience? Oh Man, that was a lot. I just I 471 00:35:46.940 --> 00:35:52.929 think just to summarize, to create demand you have to have brand preference. 472 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:59.449 Ultimately, if someone is going to buy from you, that means they prefer 473 00:35:59.610 --> 00:36:04.440 your brand over the competition out there, and so you really need to take 474 00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.159 a step back and look at what are you doing to make sure you have 475 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:13.039 brand preference, and starts with a strong brand, but then it moves from 476 00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.760 there to if that's the sum of every be touch point in the journey, 477 00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:22.469 and it's really the experience that you're creating that does that. And it's just 478 00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:25.670 getting more and more complicated right there's more channels and now there's a whole buying 479 00:36:25.710 --> 00:36:30.869 team to take into consideration, and so if you don't have it the basics 480 00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:35.659 down right from the very beginning with that brand, everything else is going to 481 00:36:35.699 --> 00:36:39.340 be like pushing a boulder uphill. So get the basics figured out first. 482 00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:47.690 Fantastic. Where can people learn more about you and connect with you? Linkedin 483 00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:53.570 as the best way to find me at Lisa Sharapata on Linkedin. And then 484 00:36:54.289 --> 00:36:59.849 if you want to find out more about six cents and Sixtmscom perfect will put 485 00:36:59.929 --> 00:37:01.360 links in the show notes, of course, but Lisa, thank you so 486 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:05.239 much for joining us. On BB growth. Yeah, you bet. Thanks 487 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:10.679 again for having me. One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth 488 00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.949 is that word of mouth works. It works really, really well actually. 489 00:37:15.349 --> 00:37:19.190 So, if you love this show, would be awesome if you texted a 490 00:37:19.269 --> 00:37:22.510 friend to tell them about it, and if you send me a text with 491 00:37:22.630 --> 00:37:25.550 a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend Metta, I know I'll 492 00:37:25.550 --> 00:37:30.260 send you a copy of my book content based networking, how to instantly connect 493 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:32.340 with anyone. You want to know my cell phone numbers. Four hundred and 494 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:36.820 seven, four, nine, hundred and three and three, two eight. 495 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:37.980 Happy texting.