1290: 5 Tactics to Scale Up Your Business w/ Nick Bradley

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.390 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:12.269 I'm joined today by Nick Bradley. He's the cofounder over at the fielding 3 00:00:12.390 --> 00:00:16.350 group. He's also a season podcaster himself. He's the host of the scale 4 00:00:16.429 --> 00:00:20.629 up your business podcast. Nick, welcome to the show, Taylogan. It's 5 00:00:20.710 --> 00:00:23.699 awesome to be here. Thank you for having me on today. Absolutely. 6 00:00:23.739 --> 00:00:27.820 We're going to be talking about five specific things that you can do to scale 7 00:00:27.899 --> 00:00:31.859 up your business, some for marketing, some for sales. Give us a 8 00:00:31.899 --> 00:00:36.810 little bit of background on yourself and why you're so passionate about these five tactics 9 00:00:36.850 --> 00:00:39.049 that you're going to share today, nick. Yeah, sure. Well, 10 00:00:39.049 --> 00:00:43.329 listen, I my company. We say that we work with entrepreneurs and business 11 00:00:43.369 --> 00:00:46.649 leaders transforming good companies into great ones. And people can say, what does 12 00:00:46.689 --> 00:00:49.609 that mean because, like you know, surely you know, some companies aren't 13 00:00:49.609 --> 00:00:52.439 good. Well, the place we come from is it all companies that have 14 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:56.320 been previously successful and have the means to become successful again. I've just lost 15 00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:58.960 their way. So therefore, you know, to become great they need to 16 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:03.560 become well oiled, predictable machine. Strategically, in operationally, they to solve 17 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.590 a clear market problem and they need to have capability momentum. So a lot 18 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:10.469 of kind of what we do is go and work with those type of organizations 19 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.790 and then often what happens is they start to getting gear commercially, they become 20 00:01:14.829 --> 00:01:19.260 more valuable, they generate more profit than they become so awesome that other companies 21 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:21.819 want to buy them and then the founders get to go off and live life 22 00:01:21.819 --> 00:01:23.620 on their terms. So we work in that space and it's a great lot 23 00:01:23.620 --> 00:01:29.299 of fun. Yeah, absolutely empowering folks to be able to it, you 24 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:32.819 know, achieve that sort of success is it's just very fulfilling. So let's 25 00:01:32.819 --> 00:01:38.049 get into some tactics for those folks, sales leaders, marketing leaders, founders 26 00:01:38.090 --> 00:01:42.290 and entrepreneurs. You know, you talk a little bit about what you called 27 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.689 the killer equation and when I read this all about, you know, your 28 00:01:45.769 --> 00:01:49.640 target audience in the problem that you solved and making that very crystal clear. 29 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.879 You know, I thought of our own journey. We Are we are in 30 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.280 a podcast agency and when you look at what we do, we help brands 31 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:02.269 with podcasting and Tangentle to that, some video production and some blog content, 32 00:02:02.590 --> 00:02:06.709 and so we could kind of say, like hey. We could position ourselves 33 00:02:06.750 --> 00:02:09.629 as hey, we're a full service and to end digital marketing agency, but 34 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:14.349 then we sound like everybody else. But our positioning has been very strong that 35 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:17.419 we start with the podcast and we've built you know, it's not just positioning 36 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:23.020 and messaging. It really is true. But we've stayed very clear on that 37 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:25.099 and I think that's part of the momentum we're seeing. Do you see some 38 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:30.210 other organizations where where they miss that and they get kind of ahead of this 39 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:32.650 and they kind of lose sight of that, that audience and that clear messaging 40 00:02:32.729 --> 00:02:36.530 on the problem they solved? I say it all the time, and this 41 00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:38.930 is why I call it the killer equation. They'll say something that maybe a 42 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:40.530 little bit unpopular. I mean my background is for everyone listening as I was 43 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:44.090 a marketing director for years. So I so I was that guy who was 44 00:02:44.090 --> 00:02:46.759 kind of you know, big companies doing all that sort of stuff between that 45 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:51.240 sort of media businesses, and we used to solve problems by throwing marketing money 46 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:55.240 at things. And the killer equation really is be super targeted on your audience, 47 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.469 like niche out to the point where it feels painful because, like what 48 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:00.349 a lot of people do as they go out there and they try and be 49 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:04.189 all things to all people, exactly what you just said Logan, and then 50 00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:07.349 they become this kind of ubiquitous thing that no one knows what they stand for 51 00:03:07.469 --> 00:03:09.349 and they become the same as everyone else. So the first point is, 52 00:03:09.789 --> 00:03:14.259 when you think you've niche enough, go two or three layers deeper. That's 53 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:16.860 the first point and the second part is be really clear on the problem. 54 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:21.580 So when I work with entrepreneurs, particularly at start up stage, you know, 55 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:24.060 the creative genius of some of these people's amazing, but what they think 56 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:27.250 about is, hey, I'fet I've got this problem. I know exactly what 57 00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:30.090 it you know I'm going to solve it this way. And I always say, 58 00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:31.569 listen, are you a hundred percent sure that it's a it's actually a 59 00:03:31.610 --> 00:03:35.810 problem? Is it a problem that someone's going to see value if you can 60 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:38.409 actually do something about it? And why? Caught the killer equations this when 61 00:03:38.449 --> 00:03:44.319 you put that super super target and niche up against a really direct problem, 62 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.639 very clear problems to be solved, what you find is if you get that 63 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:51.520 out there, your marketing takes on another level. You don't have to invest 64 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:57.310 as much in marketing to try and push something on to a certain psychodemographic or 65 00:03:57.310 --> 00:04:00.750 audience, because actually the it's so clear of what these two things do. 66 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:03.469 And so many cases when I advise companies I say get that right first and 67 00:04:03.509 --> 00:04:06.949 then you're marketing your Roi on marketing is going to be super efficient. Yeah, 68 00:04:06.949 --> 00:04:10.900 I don't know why I'm sharing so much from my own story, but 69 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:14.659 you're just giving me so many different examples of from my side here and neck 70 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:16.860 to day. You know, for ten years I sold in the copier and 71 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:23.060 office equipment space here in the states and in different regions, and in that 72 00:04:23.259 --> 00:04:28.370 industry a lot of copier dealerships were trying to then sell offtware, document management 73 00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:31.370 software for law firms and title companies, and and what I always found was, 74 00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:33.970 hey, we were trying to be all things for all people, and 75 00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:38.839 I they would say, well, Hey, this company just sells to title 76 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:42.639 companies in their solution is just for us. Why would I do that? 77 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.000 You say that you could kind of customize it for me, which you know, 78 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:47.879 I was being told, Hey, that's our benefit, we're very flexible, 79 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:53.230 but we were all things to all people and and so I've lived that. 80 00:04:53.389 --> 00:04:59.230 I've lived trying to sell against a very clear message with a definitive problem 81 00:04:59.389 --> 00:05:02.230 being solved for that niche audience, when I was coming at it from a 82 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:06.259 different direction. So I can I can speak to my own personal experience there. 83 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:11.500 The other thing is that when when you niche down enough and you're very 84 00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:15.379 clear on that problem, that makes your content and your message more shareable in 85 00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:18.939 that in that audience that you're trying to serve. Because if you if you 86 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:25.449 sell to VP's of marketing at be tob tech companies or talent leaders at the 87 00:05:25.569 --> 00:05:29.009 fortune five hundred, whoever it is, when they are very clear, like 88 00:05:29.290 --> 00:05:31.529 hey, I've heard something from this brand and this is what they solve. 89 00:05:31.689 --> 00:05:35.240 Even before they bought from you, they are going to share with their friends. 90 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.600 Hey, you should check this out because this is for people like us. 91 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.560 But if your message isn't clear, then they can't do that. Right. 92 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:44.759 Yeah, and it's and the thing about it, the reason I think 93 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:46.720 it's more powerful now than ever. As I say, you know, brands 94 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:50.430 have to step up and stands out and it's easy to launch a business these 95 00:05:50.509 --> 00:05:53.389 days. Let's be frank, there's a lots of things out there. I 96 00:05:53.470 --> 00:05:56.509 can just going to build a website quickly you can kind of lunch, you 97 00:05:56.629 --> 00:05:59.589 can get some content out there. So you know, if so many more 98 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:02.870 people are actually launching businesses, becoming more entrepreneurial, even more so you need 99 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:05.379 to be clear on exactly where you play in that space, because it's just 100 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:10.899 becoming so much more crowded now. Absolutely so. No tactic. Number one 101 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:14.540 is this killer equation that you talk about and from my own experience I can 102 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:17.180 just add test to the the truth that I hear in that neck. Number 103 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:21.810 two is about the two types of marketing that every business should be doing. 104 00:06:21.970 --> 00:06:26.410 Tell us a little bit about how you define these two types of marketing or 105 00:06:26.410 --> 00:06:28.889 are you know, we hear there's two types of people in the world and 106 00:06:29.209 --> 00:06:31.920 and there's always a different answer out the other side of that setup. Give 107 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:33.920 us the other side of this set up. Yeah, this, listen, 108 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.319 this is a rocket science and this is just the way that I explain it 109 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:40.240 because, as I said, my backgrounds in marketing and there's a point where, 110 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.079 you know, people used to talk about digital marketing is being the kind 111 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.079 of the next coming of whatever, and it kind of just marketing right. 112 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:47.829 So I kind of look at and say there's two things that every brand and 113 00:06:47.910 --> 00:06:51.110 every business needs to work on. Firstly, it's their brands and secondly it's 114 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:55.310 to rect response, and I kind of they do come together. So it's 115 00:06:55.310 --> 00:06:57.870 a bit like a Venn Diagram at some point. But but if you're very 116 00:06:57.949 --> 00:07:01.100 clear on the strategy around how you're building your brands, how you're building authenticity, 117 00:07:01.180 --> 00:07:03.339 how you get how you're getting people to know I can trust you, 118 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:06.939 how you're building culture and values around your brand, all those things that become 119 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.899 really powerful. Back to that point around how you stand out. And then 120 00:07:11.899 --> 00:07:14.620 you've got direct response, and direct response is all the taxical stuff. So 121 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:17.810 that's how you turn things like Lee Generation and conversion into a machine, how 122 00:07:17.889 --> 00:07:20.970 you do specific things to build your email list. And what I tend to 123 00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:25.009 find is when you get those two things in congruent and they're working really well, 124 00:07:25.050 --> 00:07:27.930 to that it's very understood what is brand and what is direct response, 125 00:07:28.370 --> 00:07:30.759 then actually you start to get power. where it gets confusing is people just 126 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.839 call it marketing. Will they call it communications, PA, digital marketing, 127 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:38.959 direct marketing? And I get really confused in something which I think is quite 128 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:41.480 simple. So whenever I go and speak to anybody, I say listen, 129 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.750 make sure you got something around brands. Actually you've got something around direct response 130 00:07:44.790 --> 00:07:46.389 and if you get those things right, back to my killer equation points, 131 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:49.629 then you're starting to build the machine that's going to get you predictable revenue. 132 00:07:50.269 --> 00:07:55.829 Absolutely. You said something there that I see a lot with BB marketing teams 133 00:07:55.870 --> 00:07:59.459 that we talked to and we work with on a regular basis, is that 134 00:07:59.740 --> 00:08:05.300 there is overlap between that brand and that tactical legion. But you need to 135 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:09.459 be clear on what is what you know. I've seen some people take a 136 00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:15.889 podcast, which is obviously very much a brand building activity. Now it can 137 00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:20.410 create content that you can use for more tactical legion, but they do things 138 00:08:20.490 --> 00:08:24.930 like try to gate their podcast because they want it to directly drive leads and 139 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:28.959 that I it's just the wrong way in my opinion, and that's some that 140 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.600 confusion. When you're not clear of what are the brand activities and what are 141 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.639 the legion activities that were executing in the the water gets murky and you get 142 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.830 confused and you get frustrated because things aren't delivering results but you're looking at the 143 00:08:41.029 --> 00:08:45.350 wrong results for the wrong activity. Yeah, and then one of the things 144 00:08:45.389 --> 00:08:48.590 I give advice to, particularly bigger be tob businesses as well when they're trying 145 00:08:48.590 --> 00:08:52.509 to look at tactics that are specifically going to direct have a direct correlation to 146 00:08:52.669 --> 00:08:56.580 Roy, that one thing that you do. So they might say, Oh, 147 00:08:56.620 --> 00:08:58.820 we did this piece of advertising and where's the Roi and I sit there 148 00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:01.940 and say, listen, you've got to think a little bit more holistically about 149 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:03.940 this, because it's the sum of the parts. It's that old analogy about 150 00:09:03.940 --> 00:09:05.980 the you know, when you plant the sea, you don't expect to see 151 00:09:05.980 --> 00:09:09.500 the tree the next day, but if you keep looking after that seat, 152 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:11.769 eventually it grows into this thing. And sometimes you forgot when you plants at 153 00:09:11.809 --> 00:09:15.210 it, but you did the work, you showed up consistently and all of 154 00:09:15.210 --> 00:09:18.370 a sudden you've got this amazing thing. And so I find that's like you 155 00:09:18.529 --> 00:09:20.889 can talk about podcasting. When I first started doing that, you know, 156 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:24.399 had a few busteness and then all of a sudden I just kept that, 157 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:26.720 I was consistent, I didn't Miss, you know, everything, my message 158 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.480 was clear and all of a sudden that just grew exponentially, very quickly compounded 159 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:33.919 and then all of a sudden there's a big ACOCISM, big business off the 160 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.200 back of that. So that's what I always say to people is don't always 161 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.509 try and measure every granular part of your marketing plan, but look at kind 162 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:45.110 of the results you're trying to do, both short and long term, and 163 00:09:45.269 --> 00:09:48.070 have very, very clear metrics around that activity. Yeah, absolutely, and 164 00:09:48.190 --> 00:09:52.590 that's, you know, our story here at sweetfish. We are still we're 165 00:09:52.590 --> 00:09:56.019 a scaling up, but still, you know, a relatively small team of 166 00:09:56.059 --> 00:10:00.980 twenty to twenty five. We've been doing this podcast for about four years now. 167 00:10:01.019 --> 00:10:05.220 We're sixteen hundred episodes in and you think, how does a small team 168 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:09.049 create, you know, nearly two thousand episodes of our own podcast while we're 169 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:13.169 doing work for further customers, and we started out earlier than we didn't expect 170 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.809 to have a tem ferris or Geary v type following, but I see brands 171 00:10:16.850 --> 00:10:22.960 with much more resources that can't get past that seven episode mark. That is 172 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.200 the know, your rate of ninety percent of PODCASTS, because initially, do 173 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.600 you talk about short term and long term? Girls are short term. Goal 174 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:33.480 was to build relationships with the guests that we had on our show. We 175 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:35.990 were interviewing people in the market that we wanted to serve, which gave us 176 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.990 relationships with people who could buy from US or refer business to us and it 177 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:46.549 helped us create content for for their peers at the at the same time. 178 00:10:46.990 --> 00:10:50.700 And we weren't necessarily checking the download stats at episode ten, at Episode Twenty. 179 00:10:52.340 --> 00:10:56.980 But over time we're now a top one hundred podcast in the marketing category 180 00:10:56.419 --> 00:11:00.580 and that was never, you know, a focus in the first three to 181 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:05.649 six months, but it came over time from you know, something else that 182 00:11:05.730 --> 00:11:09.690 you mentioned. They're just that consistency and I think a lot of folks, 183 00:11:09.169 --> 00:11:13.570 you know, I was hearing Chris Walker and Guy Toano Danardi talk the other 184 00:11:13.610 --> 00:11:18.129 day about we get hung up in measuring the wrong thing. This blog isn't 185 00:11:18.169 --> 00:11:22.639 converting or the PODCAST isn't converting. You know, it's not always we think 186 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.879 that you can measure everything in digital but sometimes you have to look a little 187 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.639 bit deeper, like if your podcast is reaching the right people. Look at 188 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.669 the linkedin content. Are the right types of people commenting on the linkedin content 189 00:11:33.750 --> 00:11:37.909 that's coming from your podcast? Is your branded search volume going up? Because 190 00:11:37.950 --> 00:11:41.870 people listen to a podcast, they don't always go to the show notes and 191 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:45.110 click that call to action link, but they might be starting to Google your 192 00:11:45.190 --> 00:11:48.500 brand those sorts of things. Are there some things that you did there in 193 00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:52.059 your own podcast journey that you think others would find helpful, or other just 194 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:56.220 branded activities over the long hole? Let me give you. I think this 195 00:11:56.299 --> 00:11:58.340 is a useful point because, you know, what I have been able to 196 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:03.129 do over the last twelve months has interview some of the world's most successful entrepreneurs 197 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:05.730 and business leaders. You know, people who have gotten net worths. You 198 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:09.009 know, had a couple of billionaires on the show and I've had some people 199 00:12:09.009 --> 00:12:11.090 who are sort of you know, net worth is a five hundred million plus, 200 00:12:11.809 --> 00:12:15.129 and I give you what I what I've heard. So the first thing 201 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:16.759 is all of these people have like a thread that goes through in terms of 202 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.360 how they do things, and this is what I've tried to follow as well 203 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:22.159 with the podcast and also the businesses. I've got seven several businesses now. 204 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.360 The first thing is be decisive, to say say yes and kind of figure 205 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.840 it out later. Is kind of what I say around that. The second 206 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.629 thing is be super focused. You know that whole idea that you know, 207 00:12:31.629 --> 00:12:35.309 if you get super focus, like a like can cut through steel. If 208 00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:39.190 it's put down to that sort of micro level and you know. That's important 209 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:41.350 because a lot of people what they do is they try and go a mile 210 00:12:41.429 --> 00:12:43.990 wide and an inch deep and the it's you know, it's a whole idea. 211 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:46.419 Should be doing the opposite of it, and that's how you start to 212 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:48.860 get, you know, results. The Third Areas Beg disciplined. If you're 213 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:52.299 going to commit to something, do it right. Don't just kind of make 214 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:54.139 it up, do it, you know, and a lot of that's the 215 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:58.129 sort of mindset and psychology consistency we're spoken about. And the last trait for 216 00:12:58.210 --> 00:13:01.889 me is be massively productive. You know, we've all got the same amount 217 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:05.889 of time in the day. How intentional you are with your time makes such 218 00:13:05.929 --> 00:13:07.889 a huge difference because it's so easy to waste it with all the distractions to 219 00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:11.210 around there. So I found that those kind of five principles, if you 220 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:15.360 like, when you apply them to any business, above and beyond all the 221 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.919 stuff we're talking today about marketing and getting customers, if you can kind of 222 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.240 have those traits, those habits, those routines, then that's a guys us 223 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.919 to compound these starts to get, you know, don't some monster building pact 224 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.190 from that. Yeah, absolutely. If anybody heard you just say, you 225 00:13:28.269 --> 00:13:31.590 know, be more productive with the time that you have, and they're looking 226 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:35.110 for some tactical follow ups. I had the opportunity to interview the former CIO, 227 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:39.230 Tim Campos, of Facebook, and one of his claims to fame there 228 00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:45.860 was increasing employee productivity and we had a great conversation on the podcast. Will 229 00:13:45.860 --> 00:13:50.299 Link to that previous episode in the show notes some very intriguing stats. How 230 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.940 many things are on our calendar that were put there by other people, meetings 231 00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:56.809 that we are supposed to attend that we don't really need to be in, 232 00:13:56.970 --> 00:14:00.129 all those sorts of things. So we got very tactical in that episode. 233 00:14:00.450 --> 00:14:03.049 So, Nick, I know the third thing you want to talk about from 234 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.450 the killer equation getting clear on the audience. Going one step once it feels 235 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:09.799 painful, go one step further and niche down just a little bit more when 236 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.519 you think you're there, and being clear on the problem. But I think 237 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.320 most of us know now it's not just about telling that hey, here's the 238 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.799 problem, here's the feature, here's the benefit. You need to create a 239 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.509 compelling story. What are some of the brands that you work with? How 240 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:31.669 are they taking that audience problem and then crafting the story. What are some 241 00:14:31.750 --> 00:14:35.269 of the common elements that you think folks are doing and doing this effectively? 242 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:39.460 Yeah, I'm a big advocate of Donald Milla's story brand concepts, which you 243 00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:43.580 might have spoken about. I'm sure it's such a such a great simple way 244 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.500 of thinking about this. And the Bestike I see people make the most is 245 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:50.379 that they they often think that their brands or their businesses the Herero and, 246 00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:52.889 you know, the whole Heroes Story. There's a point where the hero is 247 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:56.009 always your customer and it's the problem that they have, the you need to 248 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:58.889 address, and then you show up as the guide. And the thing I 249 00:14:58.970 --> 00:15:03.210 like about a story is every good story, like all the famous movies, 250 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:05.490 the Rockies, the Star Wars, all that sort of stuff, the sun 251 00:15:05.529 --> 00:15:09.360 of the things that have sort of stood the test of time, they always 252 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.240 have this kind of it could go one or two ways. So you know, 253 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.080 you could follow the plan and it could take you to this amazing place 254 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.080 where everything, all your dreams come true, and you could also end up 255 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.389 in the pit of despair. So what I say is you've got to create 256 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:24.990 a story around your brand. In fact, more often than that, in 257 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:28.549 some of the clients I work with now they get to functional and they get 258 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.509 to rational and they talk about, Hey, we've got this service and it 259 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:33.789 will solve this problem. I say, well, hold on, no one 260 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:35.580 cares that much about that. You've got to make it more impactful. You've 261 00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:39.539 got to bring emotion into it and one of the things I think has been 262 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.419 missing in marketing for some time is is that emotional the fact that people also 263 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:45.860 think with their heart as much as they do with their head when they make 264 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:48.740 decisions, and you've got to bring that in. So when I talk about 265 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:52.809 storytelling in business, I talk about bringing the emotion because when you get that 266 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:54.850 working, you can connect with somewhat in the game, with authenticity, with 267 00:15:54.929 --> 00:16:00.129 rapport and that can influence conversion like you wouldn't believe. And again, lots 268 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.129 of marketeers that I see don't quite get that piece, or they don't they 269 00:16:03.169 --> 00:16:07.000 don't apply it in the way they could. Yeah, absolutely. A book 270 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.519 that's been instrumental for me over the last couple of years the transparency sale from 271 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:17.519 tid capone looks at the neuroscience and there's just there's evidence out there to show 272 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.549 that we make decisions with emotion and then we back it up with logic. 273 00:16:21.669 --> 00:16:26.429 And that is not just the BEC you know my Amazon purchases as an individual. 274 00:16:26.070 --> 00:16:30.149 The same humans that make those decisions you and I, Nick, are 275 00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:33.419 making be to be buying decisions for their organizations, and we can't lose sight 276 00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:37.100 of that. The other thing I know you wanted to touch on, I 277 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:41.299 wanted to make some time for, is leveraging personal brands, both of your 278 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:45.139 CEO or other members of your team. This is something that we've been breaking 279 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:49.250 down and trying to share tactically how we're doing it here at sweet fish, 280 00:16:49.289 --> 00:16:53.610 because we are big believers, with you, that personal brands are very powerful 281 00:16:53.649 --> 00:16:57.889 right now. People connect with people far more than they do with logos. 282 00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:03.919 What are some things that your team or some of your customers are doing tactically 283 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:08.799 to leverage that concept? I think most of our listeners understand the why behind 284 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.799 that, but they struggle with the house. I'd love for you to share 285 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.869 any tactical advice. You've got four folks there. Okay, I'll make this 286 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:21.789 very simple. Just put yourself out there now. I'll abrt the bit more. 287 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:23.869 The thing about Personal Branni right is, and this is this I say 288 00:17:23.910 --> 00:17:26.910 this at the time, you've got all these kind of crazy groups that a 289 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.180 seped on facebook now, which adjust they have the people to practice doing facebook 290 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:34.059 lives, because people people start were worried about you know how people are going 291 00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:37.539 to judge them. So, without going into I mean, everyone knows what 292 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:40.299 personal branding and influence of branding and all that sort of stuff is. Now 293 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:44.450 it gets a bad rapping my opinion, because to people take it to the 294 00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:45.730 extreme and they you go out there and they don't. They sort of try 295 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.210 and get their message out to their audiences, but they don't do it necessarily 296 00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:52.210 in the right way. They're always trying to sell off the back of it. 297 00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:55.170 The most powerful thing I think I can give people, and this is 298 00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:59.839 if you're using a personal branding approach, which means having a media platform like 299 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.640 a podcast, where Youtube Channel, and you're getting your message out there. 300 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:08.079 The whole reason you're doing that is to educate and inspiring form right and the 301 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.480 whole thing is, I mean I've got this belief that this whole idea of 302 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.509 helping people, if you help people get what they want in life, you'll 303 00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:15.710 have everything you want in life. I think it was as exigle quote. 304 00:18:15.869 --> 00:18:18.390 Why? It's words I think I've heard somewhere before. Yeah, that's it. 305 00:18:18.589 --> 00:18:21.029 I mean, you must have said I love it, but you know 306 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:22.309 what, I've got that written on my wall right and I look at it 307 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:26.630 every single day and it's and it's transformed the businesses that I work with. 308 00:18:26.259 --> 00:18:30.019 So, from a tactical respect, it to your question. The first and 309 00:18:30.099 --> 00:18:33.259 foremost is choose a platform. Choose a platform that you're going to go out 310 00:18:33.259 --> 00:18:37.099 there and be consistent on. So sometimes my personal view is that should be 311 00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:40.779 voice and voice and audio, you know, visual, that sort of thing. 312 00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:42.849 But if it's writing for you, then you know, start writing on 313 00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:48.329 medium every single week, do it consistently. Second thing is, if you've 314 00:18:48.329 --> 00:18:51.569 got a fear of putting yourself out there, you've just got to keep practicing. 315 00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:52.890 It's like working a muscle. The more you do it, the easier 316 00:18:52.890 --> 00:18:55.920 it becomes. It to know about you logo. But if you listen to 317 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:59.440 my first few episodes of the podcast, I cringe now when I listen to 318 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.960 how bad I was, but a cringe when I listen to myself today. 319 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.920 At one act I hey, I mean I see that of a time neck. 320 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.960 I'm so glad you said that because we work with a lot of brands 321 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.309 that eat especially their first four or five, six episodes, they're just ringing 322 00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:18.509 their hands over every arm and can we rerecord this and don't bit and we're 323 00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:21.670 like no, no, like I mean, for one, your first few 324 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:23.380 episodes, no one's listening yet anyway. So that, I mean, that's 325 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:26.700 the good news in the bad news. But you've got to keep going and 326 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:32.140 it's more about the practice and getting into that rhythm so that you can build 327 00:19:32.140 --> 00:19:36.819 the audience as opposed to perfecting episode one and dry. Let's just face it, 328 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:40.890 it's not the Mandalorian it's not stranger things. People aren't waiting with bated 329 00:19:40.930 --> 00:19:44.769 breath for the first episode of Your podcast or the first episode of your new 330 00:19:44.849 --> 00:19:48.170 season, and that's not to be discouraging. It's it's just to put a 331 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:52.640 lens of reality for us as marketers, that it takes consistency, it takes 332 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.279 the time and the more you get out of your own way and you're okay 333 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.480 with some of that authenticity in your content, which we believe is actually going 334 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.480 to make your content better anyway. You know, it does connect with me 335 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.869 all the time and and say and you're such a great podcast host. I 336 00:20:07.950 --> 00:20:11.029 feel like I know you and I'm I'm like Hey, I have a journalism 337 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:14.390 background, but it was not in broadcasting. I was behind a camera as 338 00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:17.309 a dumb photojournalist. It's a couple point. Just one more thing on this. 339 00:20:17.349 --> 00:20:18.150 I didn't. I mean when I do my podcast, I don't aid 340 00:20:18.190 --> 00:20:21.150 it anything right. So if the kids running in and, you know, 341 00:20:21.230 --> 00:20:22.819 the dog comes in a ook side of the microphone, which has happened, 342 00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:26.299 I just let it go because I kind't think it's me rights life. The 343 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.259 other thing I think it's really pathfuen's when I give this as a final tip 344 00:20:30.339 --> 00:20:33.339 on this point, is there's no better way of working out who your customers 345 00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:38.289 are and should be from, you know, being directing your your message and 346 00:20:38.410 --> 00:20:41.970 directing what you stand for and what you stand against. So I've got people 347 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.089 who come along and say, listen to, Hey, what you're saying, 348 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:48.170 Nickut and buys it at all. But other people who are, you know, 349 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:49.599 raiving fans and go well, you know, that message you're putting out 350 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.440 there is changing my life. And so what's great is I get to pick 351 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.680 and shoe. So I want to work within any sort of commercial way, 352 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.039 because the raving fans the ones who are going to show up, they're going 353 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.519 to do the work, they're going to get the results, and the ones 354 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:02.559 that are kind of on the edge, I don't really want to work with 355 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.430 them anyway. So I think it's another way. There's a real tactical thing 356 00:21:04.470 --> 00:21:08.109 here that you can actually build your business off people who know I can trust 357 00:21:08.150 --> 00:21:11.750 you, but love what you're saying, and that's a much more fun place 358 00:21:11.829 --> 00:21:15.269 to be as well. Yeah, it's scary that you know you're going to 359 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:19.779 alienate some, but again, if you are going to really be that problem 360 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:23.059 Solvera that guide, you're going to be ganned off to their Frodo, you're 361 00:21:23.059 --> 00:21:26.900 going to be yoded to their Luke skywalker. Then you're not going to be 362 00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:30.339 that to someone else and you have to be okay with that. But I 363 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:34.329 think you do a great job of pointing out those benefits. So the last 364 00:21:34.329 --> 00:21:38.130 tactic we want to round out the conversation with today, nick, is on 365 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:45.450 a high impact Lee generation strategy. You Call VV VO. Tell us about 366 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:48.039 this methodology as we as we wrap up today. Yeah, sure so. 367 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.799 So it's sign of aligns everything we're spoken about on this on this show today, 368 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.519 because it's it stands for value, value, value offer, okay, 369 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.000 and you can actually have more V so I just kind of simplify it can 370 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.029 be. I always say three to five vs and then offer. And the 371 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:04.230 whole point of that is, you know, if you think about sort of 372 00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:08.109 what people try and do, is they try and use every medium that they 373 00:22:08.150 --> 00:22:11.990 have, all variable to them, to get in touch with their audience to 374 00:22:11.029 --> 00:22:15.269 try and sell something. It's it's changing and it's not quite as bad as 375 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:17.779 it used to be, but I still work with clods. You think that 376 00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:19.220 every time I post on Linkedin, for example, they need to put in 377 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.940 the sales message. And the whole point here is that it needs to be 378 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:26.859 much more bad value. So the VVVO is quite simply this off of value, 379 00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:30.410 off of value, off the value, off of value, and then 380 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:33.890 you earn the right to put something in front of your audience, which all 381 00:22:33.890 --> 00:22:37.890 ask them to participate in. Something will commercial and if you follow that strategy 382 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:41.049 and You keep that in your head, you'll actually have high conversion rights. 383 00:22:41.089 --> 00:22:42.609 And if you're just trying out that to push sales the whole time, Yep, 384 00:22:42.730 --> 00:22:45.400 absolutely. I think a lot of people, you know, to equate 385 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:51.279 it to Gary vs Book Right, which your your acronym follows very closely. 386 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:53.240 Jab Jab, Jab right hook. What a lot of people try to do 387 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:57.319 is jab right hook every time. Like you said, value offer, value 388 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:02.069 offer, and they think that hey, if I don't have an offer, 389 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.950 if I don't have a conversion that I can track on every single piece of 390 00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:10.789 content, then I'm missing out. But then you you you create fatigue in 391 00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:15.140 your audience. It's very crystal clear that the intent is to sell me something 392 00:23:15.579 --> 00:23:21.140 with this this veiled offer of value. Now I think the smartest marketers I 393 00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:23.700 know, like Guy Tono tenardy, I was hearing him on another podcast, 394 00:23:23.779 --> 00:23:30.529 say that I know that being helpful is going to drive that affinity and then 395 00:23:30.569 --> 00:23:33.369 it is going to lead to sales. So it's not saying create content that 396 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:37.130 doesn't lead to sales. That's not what we're saying. Just don't measure it 397 00:23:37.410 --> 00:23:42.119 on that direct response to sales. You have to have a few more jabs 398 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:47.400 before you throw that right hook. So so it's also very it's also very 399 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.039 needy, right. No one likes people who are needy. So you don't 400 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.000 want to be out there like thissk for trying to sell something. You want 401 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.119 to be you know, it's almost like oceans eleven. You want to be 402 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.430 a bit cool, and then invite people to participate, right, and that's 403 00:23:56.549 --> 00:23:59.670 that's that's how I do it and that's how I buys people to do it. 404 00:23:59.990 --> 00:24:03.109 Yep, absolutely well, neck, this has been a great conversation. 405 00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:07.549 For anybody who you've just now popped up on their radar, they want to 406 00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:10.940 stay connected with you, follow along with your content, find your podcast. 407 00:24:11.539 --> 00:24:14.779 What's the best way for them to follow up and stay connected with you or 408 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.019 reach out with anything? Yeah, sure, we listen. We've got I've 409 00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:19.579 got a gift for everyone who's listening today. Basically it's the customer creation playbill 410 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:22.900 get covers a lot of the points that we're spoken about. So if people 411 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:26.369 want to get a copy of that's a free copy. Go to scale up 412 00:24:26.569 --> 00:24:30.210 dot VIP for slash CCP. That's customer creation playbook. But if people want 413 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.490 to get in touch with me, then I've got a group, a facebook 414 00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:36.049 group, called the scale up your business community. So come there you can. 415 00:24:36.089 --> 00:24:40.039 I'm in there all the time doing lives and there's about threezero people in 416 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:41.960 that community now. So people can kind of reach out to me directly there, 417 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.480 or they can also get me on Linkedin. Just look for Nick Bradley. 418 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.680 Scale up your business. I love it neck. This has been a 419 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.000 fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for being our guest on the show. 420 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:56.430 To next, pay Logan. It's great. Thank you very much. Is 421 00:24:56.509 --> 00:25:00.029 Your buyer a batb marketer? If so, you should think about sponsoring this 422 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:03.549 podcast. BB growth gets downloaded over a hundred and thirty thousand times each month 423 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:08.019 and our listeners are marketing decisionmakers. If it sounds interesting, sind logan and 424 00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:11.579 email logan at sweet fish Mediacom