1280: The Importance of SEO for Thought Leaders w/ Gaetano DiNardi

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:09.750 Welcome back to another episode of BEDB growth. I'm Dan Sanchez and I'm here 2 00:00:09.869 --> 00:00:15.029 with Gaetano DNARDI. He's the director of demand Jin at Nixtiva. Gaetano, 3 00:00:15.189 --> 00:00:19.710 how's it doing today? Yeah, what's up then? Always always happy and 4 00:00:19.910 --> 00:00:24.059 and always a pleasure to be on the bed wee growth show. It's kind 5 00:00:24.100 --> 00:00:26.140 of like a second home for me that I think I've been on this a 6 00:00:26.300 --> 00:00:29.539 few times, so I appreciate you guys having me back. Yeah, you're 7 00:00:29.539 --> 00:00:34.460 practically like bdb growth alumni now, so you're baby growth fan. Sure, 8 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.009 who knows? Well? Yeah, brother, come, before we jump into 9 00:00:38.049 --> 00:00:41.250 the the topic I had them on the episode today for, which is the 10 00:00:41.329 --> 00:00:45.170 importance of Seo for thought leaders, can you tell us a little bit like 11 00:00:45.250 --> 00:00:48.369 what you're up to now, since it's changed since last time you've been on 12 00:00:48.450 --> 00:00:53.439 the show with next diva and the team there. Yeah, so basically I 13 00:00:53.560 --> 00:01:00.000 think the angle for today is explaining why, for Seo, credibility is very 14 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.030 important now, especially in the your money, your life categories. So if 15 00:01:04.069 --> 00:01:10.349 you're giving advice on things like credit card loans, student loans, ways to 16 00:01:10.430 --> 00:01:15.230 refinance debt, auto insurance, things that are like huge life decisions, that 17 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:21.459 authorship better be from someone who really knows their stuff. It can't just be 18 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:29.340 from some content writer that has zero credibility or really any kind of historical citation 19 00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:34.290 of knowledge, of depth of knowledge in that and that field. And it's 20 00:01:34.370 --> 00:01:38.810 something that is is definitely a factor right now, because you know straight up 21 00:01:38.810 --> 00:01:44.609 you wouldn't want to be taking life changing advice from some content marketer and nor 22 00:01:44.650 --> 00:01:46.890 should you. So I think that's what we're going to be talking about today. 23 00:01:46.890 --> 00:01:51.159 Awesome. So your journey with Seo goes back quite away. As I've 24 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:55.040 noticed you you have like a long history of Seo and your here linkedin profile. 25 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.719 You've been a full time Seo a couple of times now. So where 26 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.680 did that start for you? How did you get started in that role? 27 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:06.189 Yeah, it's a unique story. I got into SEO by accident. During 28 00:02:06.230 --> 00:02:08.310 the time that I was just getting my feet wet with be to be marketing, 29 00:02:08.629 --> 00:02:15.590 I was also really documenting my journey as a upandcoming music producer and songwriter 30 00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:21.580 living in New York City and I started blocking about music companies and people started 31 00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:25.259 finding my articles through Google Search and the reason I knew this was because I 32 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:30.969 was seeing tons and tons of random comments from all these people on my articles 33 00:02:30.770 --> 00:02:35.330 and I realize, you know, I'm not really promoting the stuff. So 34 00:02:35.569 --> 00:02:38.129 how are they finding at? How am I getting all these random comments? 35 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:40.490 And I realized it was through Google Search. You know, people were searching 36 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:46.360 for terms like is music company X Y Z legit or a music company X 37 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:52.199 Y Z reviews, and they were finding my content that way and that was 38 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:57.039 a portal to discoverability to other things that I do, like my music and 39 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.830 and my videos and my other blogs and stuff like that, and growing my 40 00:03:00.909 --> 00:03:05.710 email list. So I really love the idea of inbound at that point because 41 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:07.750 I realized damn, like you know, content promotion kind of sucks. It's 42 00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:13.219 not fun. So having it rank at the top of search engines and and 43 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:16.900 letting people find it naturally was a very appealing thing to me and I really 44 00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:20.860 love that, and that's when I fell in love with Seo. From there 45 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.099 it was kind of off to the races. Man, I got my first 46 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:28.289 SEO agency job in New York following that, right off the bat, working 47 00:03:28.370 --> 00:03:31.930 with really big clients. That the owner of that agency, his name is 48 00:03:32.009 --> 00:03:37.409 Mike King. He took a shot on a young bronx boy who didn't really 49 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:39.090 know too much at the time, but he know, he gave me a 50 00:03:39.210 --> 00:03:43.599 shot. I was unproven and he let me kind of cut my teeth prove 51 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.840 myself work the really big clients like Major League Baseball, complexcom sites like that. 52 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.800 From there went on to pipe drive, a wellknown sales crm company. 53 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:58.830 Was the SEO manager there for some time. I let SEO at a company 54 00:03:58.870 --> 00:04:03.189 called ghost skills, which online course, company from their led marketing at sales 55 00:04:03.189 --> 00:04:06.669 soccer, a company that most people that followed me to be growth. No 56 00:04:06.909 --> 00:04:11.500 really. Well, I was the VP of marketing. Their company got acquired 57 00:04:11.539 --> 00:04:15.019 by outreach. Fast forward to today, leading demand generation at next Tiva, 58 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:21.060 were clad communications company that enables businesses to work from anywhere. And, as 59 00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:25.449 you can probably guess right now, that's a pretty good business to be in 60 00:04:25.689 --> 00:04:29.930 and it's timely. You know, it's unfortunate circumstance, but you know, 61 00:04:30.050 --> 00:04:34.170 businesses are relying on US huge right now to keep them connected and enable them 62 00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:38.490 to work from home. So that's where it's all out today. Brother, 63 00:04:38.569 --> 00:04:41.279 that's how it all happen. Man, I love that you got started a 64 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.720 blogging I feel like bloggings just kind of like the gateway drug to Seo. 65 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:46.959 Tell most people get started either by accidents. I find out where that track 66 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:50.040 fix coming from, or because they're like how do I get people? I 67 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.149 just spent like three hours writing this blug post. How do I get people 68 00:04:54.149 --> 00:04:56.910 to read it? And then you start discovering like Oh, Seo, that's 69 00:04:56.949 --> 00:05:00.790 a thing. No one really leaves college or high school thinking I want to 70 00:05:00.829 --> 00:05:03.509 become an SEO specialist. What? Yeah, exactly. You know, there's 71 00:05:03.550 --> 00:05:06.259 no degree for it. That's for one. You know, I like I 72 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:10.420 have a marketing degree. They didn't. They didn't even know what I seo 73 00:05:10.660 --> 00:05:15.220 was right. They were teaching me about like theory and, you know, 74 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:17.300 all this sort of stuff, product market fait, kind of the you know, 75 00:05:17.379 --> 00:05:21.209 the typical classic big CMOS style thinking of marketing, which, you know 76 00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:25.610 there's their theory and practice. But you know, to your point about blogging, 77 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:30.290 really, if you drive really to the root of that, what does 78 00:05:30.329 --> 00:05:35.000 that mean? While it's producing authentic content that's very comprehensive and it comes from 79 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:40.439 somebody who's actually doing it right? Like I was a musician producer. I 80 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:45.079 knew a lot of unique things about the industry. I was exposing things that 81 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.560 were never exposed before. So I wasn't creating this kind of content to drive 82 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:54.910 leads or grown emailist or, you know, drive point some one to a 83 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.750 CTA to book a Demo request like that. None of that was the goal. 84 00:05:58.870 --> 00:06:02.629 It was just let me pour my guts out and share really good knowledge 85 00:06:02.949 --> 00:06:08.060 and align it to an audience that is one hundred percent relevant. And and 86 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:10.939 there you go, like it's the fundamentals right. So when you think about 87 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:14.579 that and each and and you fast forward to to today, in what you 88 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:17.850 have to do to be successful and be to be marketing Seo, it's really 89 00:06:17.930 --> 00:06:21.089 not that different than a guy like me blogging about music companies, if you 90 00:06:21.129 --> 00:06:25.769 think about it. But the problem is that be tob companies are just doing 91 00:06:26.009 --> 00:06:30.290 shit for lead Gen now, you know, white papers for leads, Webinars 92 00:06:30.449 --> 00:06:33.079 for leads. Blog, hey, why doesn't it drive leads? Everything is 93 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:38.360 leads, leads, leads, leaves leads. You know, coronavirus comes in 94 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.199 and smacks you in the face. You got to stop doing that. And 95 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.160 that's kind of you know where we're at today. It's definitely a long game 96 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.230 and man, I think we could go like on for a couple of hours 97 00:06:48.949 --> 00:06:53.910 on just SEO, in the state of Seo, and think a lot of 98 00:06:54.110 --> 00:06:57.389 perceptions and things people believe about Seo that may or may not be true. 99 00:06:58.110 --> 00:07:01.180 But today I wanted to talk more about like Seo and thought leadership. Now, 100 00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:03.939 when it comes to thought leadership marketing, a lot of people really they're 101 00:07:03.939 --> 00:07:05.939 like, okay, like, I want to be a thought leader, I 102 00:07:05.939 --> 00:07:11.220 should probably publish a book or maybe start a podcast. I probably need to 103 00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:15.569 do like some speaking gigs. You know, it's very traditional ways to boost 104 00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:20.089 your thought leadership appeal. Seeo, though. How do you feel like Seo 105 00:07:20.209 --> 00:07:27.370 plays into an overall thought leader ship campaign? Yeah, yeah, Seo with 106 00:07:27.449 --> 00:07:32.040 thought leadership is kind of kind of handinhand in some cases. So kind of 107 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:35.839 going back to what I said before, you need credibility, you need really 108 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.959 you know, the eat guidelines came out, which people if you're if you're 109 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:44.199 not familiar with that and you're listening to this, e stands for expertise, 110 00:07:44.550 --> 00:07:50.589 authority and trustworthiness, and the idea is that if you are hitting all those 111 00:07:50.670 --> 00:07:58.269 areas effectively and you're publishing content and you and your authorship and you have the 112 00:07:58.389 --> 00:08:03.060 credentials to talk about this subject, it also aligns with this concept of topical 113 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:07.420 depth. So like, for example, if you are a website that is 114 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:11.740 publishing real estate content and then you want to start, you know, kind 115 00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:16.930 of pivoting away from real estate content and getting more into lifestyle and and maybe 116 00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.490 other things that aren't directly related to real estate, you don't have a hard 117 00:08:20.529 --> 00:08:26.009 time ranking for those things, because Google doesn't really want sites now that talk 118 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:28.360 about a million different things. And that's why you that's why you may have 119 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:33.440 seen brands like, you know, the balancecom. They used to be kind 120 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.440 of one conglomerate website that talked about a million different things and what they ended 121 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:43.629 up doing was splitting up their domain into more microsites that are spoke focused on 122 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:48.429 specific niche things. So they have the balance, you know, sales, 123 00:08:48.509 --> 00:08:50.509 the balance, SMB, the balance, lifestyle, the balance this, the 124 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:54.950 balance that, and it focuses on these things. So you have a better 125 00:08:54.990 --> 00:08:58.100 opportunity to rank when you're more topically focused. But at the end of the 126 00:08:58.100 --> 00:09:01.820 day, you know, what thought leadership and Seo is about is you can 127 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:05.220 kind of hit PR goals, link building goals and drive a lot of top 128 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:11.970 of funnel awareness and authority by doing things like guess posting, getting interviewed on 129 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:16.450 podcasts right. You know, this is actually a form of link building. 130 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:20.169 A lot of people don't realize that, but you know, getting interviewed on 131 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:24.799 podcast is one of the best ways to build links because you don't have to 132 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:28.440 go do those stupid cold emails saying Hey, I have a great resource that 133 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.639 would be really, really awesome and relevant to your audience. Could you please 134 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.080 link to it? You know, I'm sure you get emails like that every 135 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.710 day. No one wants to do that. So you can use thought leadership 136 00:09:37.710 --> 00:09:43.789 PR drive on top of funnel awareness and seo kind of mix them and mash 137 00:09:43.830 --> 00:09:46.110 them all together and one big, huge but, you know, ball of 138 00:09:46.190 --> 00:09:50.710 fun and you can really do some cool things, and that's what I think 139 00:09:50.870 --> 00:09:54.059 is interesting about Seo. There's always a lot of different ways to skin a 140 00:09:54.139 --> 00:09:58.340 cat, million ways to skin a cat, as they say. So it's 141 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:03.139 nice. It's like the recent changes they've made to Google like give thought leaders 142 00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:07.210 way more advantage to rank on, to rank on the search engines. If 143 00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:11.330 you were thought leader currently, then your articles are going to outrank everybody else 144 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:15.690 is more easily, because Google says you're credible. Can you tell us a 145 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:20.169 little bit more why what's Google think? That like break down the eat acronymic 146 00:10:20.210 --> 00:10:22.960 kind of a explained, like the more the heavy details on that. Yeah, 147 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.639 yeah, I so. Basically, there's this it's not an official ranking 148 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.519 factor, but it matters. There's a concept called domain authority, and this 149 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:39.549 is the reason why when hub spot publishes anything, it ranks within a day 150 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:46.230 pretty much like no matter. And it can be the most thin content out 151 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.379 there. It doesn't have to be super comprehensive. You know, it's not 152 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:58.419 perfectly optimized, but because they have that brand credibility, that expertise in inbound 153 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:03.450 marketing, in sales right, and even customer service, those three buckets they 154 00:11:03.529 --> 00:11:09.850 have mastered in terms of expertise. So over time they've built links, they've 155 00:11:09.889 --> 00:11:13.889 built content that you know there are well respected brand right. All these things 156 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:18.879 kind of this compounding effect. So if you imagine a scale of zero being 157 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.840 the most, you know, unknown ghost site out there and one hundred being 158 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:28.519 googlecom, the most wellknown powerful site out there, there's a few websites that 159 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.590 are considered one hundred domain like wikipediacom, Google, facebook and many others. 160 00:11:33.710 --> 00:11:37.470 But you know, hub spot is in that ninety plus range. So they're 161 00:11:37.509 --> 00:11:41.830 in the top of the top of the top of the top, and you 162 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:46.190 know you're not going to get there overnight and you know it takes time to 163 00:11:46.509 --> 00:11:48.500 build that up. But once you've been like once you've been doing you know 164 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:52.940 consistently for like ten plus years, you know the long term effects of building 165 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:58.379 that brand thought leadership and even personal thought leadership right, because then, you 166 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:01.409 know, to get to be able to write an article on up spot, 167 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:05.250 you have to be pretty legit, right. I just published the an article 168 00:12:05.330 --> 00:12:11.370 on Hup spot the other day came out. It was about viral content teardowns, 169 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:15.049 and actually James Carberry, your boy are boys featured in that. But, 170 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:16.960 like up spot's not going to let just any joe blow, you know, 171 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.720 right for them. So your own thought leadership allows you to collaborate with 172 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.919 other well respected brands that have high brand authority, and then, you know, 173 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.830 it just becomes kind of a steamrolling effect. You can then go to 174 00:12:30.909 --> 00:12:33.230 places like HBR and say hey, you know, I've written on sales force, 175 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:35.830 on hup spot, on this and on that and on this and on 176 00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:39.429 that, and you just continue kind of slowly but surely building up your own 177 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:46.019 wheel of credibility by doing all these activities nonstop, consistently over time, and 178 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:48.779 then it becomes a compounding effect. So I know that's a long winded answer. 179 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:52.940 It's not so easy to explain, but that's basically how it all works. 180 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:56.379 I mean, if you think about it, it kind of makes sense. 181 00:12:56.379 --> 00:13:00.049 Since Google is getting so much heat from Congress, they're trying to find 182 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:05.250 ways to bring more credible sources to the forefront. So, like you take 183 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.009 the nutrition vertical for example, like the people who are winning our webmd and 184 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:16.320 other other really credible sources that are published by PhD's and doctors and people who 185 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:20.279 have authority, incredibility city who have published multiple articles, research articles. Google's 186 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:26.759 favoring all that stuff so much more to try to fight all the quote unquote, 187 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.309 fake news out there because, let's be honest, like the systems vulnerable, 188 00:13:30.429 --> 00:13:33.429 and that's Google's kind of a response to it. Over the last year 189 00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:39.830 it's especially the individuals are having a little bit more sway than just your brand 190 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.700 websites, though. Good, I think Google. I think Google loves brands. 191 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.980 It's why an entrepreneur magazine whut rank a solid piece written by a no 192 00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:50.820 name brand. Right, yeah, exactly. I mean Google also knows that. 193 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:54.889 You know sites like, you know, entrepreneur and Forbes like. They've 194 00:13:54.929 --> 00:14:01.169 been highly vetted and they're more likely to feature credible authors, right, and 195 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:05.889 therefore, you know, it's kind of a one two punched. You have 196 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:09.000 the brand and website authority and then you also have like that author at the 197 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.440 individual level, credibility and authority. And it does, it does really work 198 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.519 hand in hand. And I think it also depends also on the industry you're 199 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.320 in or the the vertical you're in. So like, for example, like 200 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:24.870 if you look at like education or online learning, what I've been seeing a 201 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:31.029 lot in search results is scholarly articles. You see these in medical as well. 202 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:33.590 I think you you kind of brought up a few examples. But like 203 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:35.509 you will see at the top, like above all these big, you know, 204 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:39.220 news sites, you will see like, you know, scholarly article from 205 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:45.220 some kind of you know, Joer, not journalistic source, but some sort 206 00:14:45.259 --> 00:14:50.580 of like like Stanford dieed you. So like you, universities and real research 207 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.889 papers, right, like fisis papers and stuff from like universities. You'll see 208 00:14:54.889 --> 00:15:00.730 a lot of that rather than like, I don't know, business insider. 209 00:15:00.769 --> 00:15:03.970 Right. It just depends on the vertical. You're yeah, I find I'm 210 00:15:03.970 --> 00:15:07.639 actually leaning like if I know I want to post, to go over and 211 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.720 above, above and beyond like the competition. One of the things I'm doing 212 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:15.240 is actually going and looking for scholarly articles to source as my links, just 213 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.200 to give my article a little bit more authority than others just linking out to 214 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.269 other random websites. Yeah, that's a huge point. Actually, you know, 215 00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:28.269 it is a ranking factor outbound linking. So just as important as it 216 00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:31.629 is for those websites that are linking to you, who you linked to is 217 00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:37.700 also very important because there needs to be that web of interconnectivity. And if 218 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:43.379 if you're out bound linking to shitty sites or sites that aren't even relevant. 219 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.779 So say, you know, we're a tech site and we start linking out 220 00:15:46.779 --> 00:15:50.529 to gambling sites, just on that out there as an example, that's a 221 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:54.490 sign that we're selling that's that's be horrible, right, but that's a sign 222 00:15:54.529 --> 00:16:00.169 that we're probably selling links. Right. That's why relevance is so is so 223 00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:04.039 crucial in the in the in the link Algorithm, because that's how Google really 224 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:11.080 detects spam or unethical link practices. There's a lot of websites out there. 225 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.000 That build authority. And what's going to happen is, you know, you're 226 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.559 going to have all sorts of different kind of people hitting you up from Casino 227 00:16:18.870 --> 00:16:23.629 Gaming, you know, pharmaceutical whatever, and they're going to say, Hey, 228 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:26.870 can you link to us in this article? You know, willing to 229 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:33.100 compensate? All right, and then that website may or may not reply and 230 00:16:33.139 --> 00:16:36.620 say sure, you know, our cost per link is x, and they'll 231 00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.779 say, okay, great, let's do it, and then they'll they'll accept 232 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:45.100 payment the link to that source. They won't put a no follow tag or 233 00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:49.690 there's there's now tag attributes that that allow you to specify to Google that it's 234 00:16:49.690 --> 00:16:55.850 sponsored content or paid for content or user generated. They won't apply any of 235 00:16:55.889 --> 00:16:59.330 those tags. They'll accept the payment and they'll start linking out to these sites 236 00:16:59.570 --> 00:17:03.880 purely for money. And then what happens over time is you start to Google, 237 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:07.400 starts to look at your outbound linking profile and say, HMM, this 238 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.680 doesn't quite seem right. They're looking out to real estate, gambling, farm 239 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:18.750 farmas you know, sexual products, whatever it is, and pills, you 240 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:22.710 name it, and then it's it becomes a shit show. So that's that. 241 00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:26.750 That's the problem for sure, and that's that would be like the extreme 242 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:32.220 examples. But I even think, I mean it's I think even even picking 243 00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:36.700 from great examples makes a difference than just picking from good examples, picking from 244 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:41.539 scholarly articles that prove like statistically, this point you're trying to make, versus 245 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:45.730 someone who just set it somewhere online. Right at least I'm trying to Sourcema 246 00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:48.529 articles more with a little bit more scholarly lengths. I think that's why wikipedia 247 00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:51.690 gets so many wins, because you know, they have all those like backlinks 248 00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:55.529 pointed of reference articles. That's why what's right us or hard to beat, 249 00:17:55.849 --> 00:17:59.319 hard to beat on the search engines. That's off, man, that that's 250 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:03.559 off. I'm homies with the the founder of rap genius, now on as 251 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:10.079 they rebrand it's genius. With the lyrics website that was they actually accused Google, 252 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:14.269 and rightfully so, of lifting their content, stealing their lyrics and we 253 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:17.829 publishing it as their own, which was true. It was happening and probably 254 00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:22.829 still is, I'm not sure. But he is building a platform to fight 255 00:18:22.910 --> 00:18:27.539 against wikipedia. He's like very anti big, you know, big Goliath brand 256 00:18:27.700 --> 00:18:33.779 powerhouses. So he's building something called ever apedia to fight back. That's Wikipedia, 257 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.220 which I find quite fascinating. Wow, I mean that's it's like a 258 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:41.769 David Galiza situation. Wish him best of luck, I'm sure. Tell me 259 00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:48.049 there's a whole topic in Seo Right now called Y myl and it applies to 260 00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:49.809 more things than people think. Can you tell me a little bit about that 261 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:56.480 and how it's impacted SEO? Yeah, so, basically here's the deal. 262 00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.839 Your money, your life, is what it stands for, and it's for 263 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.559 those sensitive topics that give you life advice that could be finite, that could 264 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.950 have huge financial implications. And before Google started getting more streng on this, 265 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:18.109 basically there are a lot of people gaming the system purely to rank, because 266 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:23.700 these industries are high commercial value industries. If I look, if I'm just 267 00:19:23.779 --> 00:19:27.660 going to look real on the fly, in real time right now, I'm 268 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:32.740 going to go to one of my favorite keyword research tools atrfs and I'm going 269 00:19:32.779 --> 00:19:36.539 to I'm just going to look at what the cost per estimated cost per click 270 00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:41.289 is for a very commercial term in that industry, which may be something like 271 00:19:41.529 --> 00:19:47.170 best credit card loans or best credit card debt consolidation. Okay, so that 272 00:19:47.369 --> 00:19:52.960 one is twenty seven dollars a click. Let's see, that's that's actually low 273 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.160 liking so for the highest I've seen, but it's still Dang as I yeah, 274 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.759 yeah, yeah, best credit card. How about this one? BEST 275 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:04.000 CREDIT CARDS FOR SMALL BUSINESS? This one is going to be huge. Wow. 276 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.710 So a lot, a lot less than I thought. Only twenty five 277 00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:11.589 do cost per click. The reason I'm so surprised is because in our industry, 278 00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:14.670 next to EVA, the clad communications, you know, we have some 279 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:18.150 keywords that are a hundred dollar plus per click. Yeah, yeah, business 280 00:20:18.190 --> 00:20:22.460 phone system, business phone service, clad phone system, stuff like that. 281 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:25.660 But anyway, yeah, so. But the one thing I also want to 282 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:29.420 point out is the difficulty scale on this is very, very tough. So 283 00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:37.130 a trafts has a zero through one hundred scale of keyword difficulty and basically it's 284 00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:40.650 an estimation of how hard it will be to rank in organic search. And 285 00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:44.930 if the keyword is like seventy or above, it's impossible. If it's in 286 00:20:45.009 --> 00:20:48.650 like the fifty to seventy range, it's like very, very hard, if 287 00:20:48.690 --> 00:20:51.559 it's in thirty fifty it's a little easier, and if it's from zero to 288 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:56.480 thirty it's pretty doable. So this particular keyword is a rating of fifty two, 289 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:04.230 and ATREX estimates that you would need ninety one backlinks, unique from different 290 00:21:04.269 --> 00:21:08.869 websites. So you need ninety one different high authority websites to link to just 291 00:21:08.990 --> 00:21:14.670 that one page in order to give it just the shot at ranking in the 292 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:18.259 top ten positions for best credit cards for small business, which is a lot 293 00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:22.180 of you need a lot of links from a lot of high, high authority 294 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:26.220 sites in order to rank for that term. But getting back to the topic, 295 00:21:26.380 --> 00:21:32.299 it's it's really Google's way of preventing spammers and, you know, basically 296 00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:38.410 scammers from getting to the top of the search engines through unethical ways and basically 297 00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:45.569 manipulating audiences in order to gain money for referrals and affiliate payouts to the credit 298 00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:53.599 card companies that want to sell to people who search for this. 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Once 313 00:23:06.869 --> 00:23:12.619 again, that's directive consultingcom institute to get for free lessons from the pros. 314 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:18.099 All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah, and right now 315 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:21.940 it's kind of like so your money in your life, like money being like 316 00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:26.250 the finance credit cards. Obviously, life being like health, medical, mental, 317 00:23:26.410 --> 00:23:30.250 health, nutrition kind of all fall into that categories. I've heard like 318 00:23:30.369 --> 00:23:33.289 those are kind of like the solid categories, but when I hear what it 319 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:37.369 gets interesting to me is like the categories that kind of fall kind of in 320 00:23:37.529 --> 00:23:40.650 it, but not quite right. But which marketing? I'm always like, 321 00:23:41.049 --> 00:23:42.720 is marketing in there? That's kind of your money. I mean we're talking 322 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:47.440 about business, we're talking about marketing. Always get like concerned about that one 323 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.119 that in that I'm always trying to rank for those keywords. Naturally. Yeah, 324 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:55.160 yeah, so those. So those ones, you know, they should 325 00:23:55.160 --> 00:24:00.309 be considered just as as you know, they should be examined as at as 326 00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:03.589 closely as the credit card ones are, because, if you think about it, 327 00:24:03.910 --> 00:24:06.670 you know a lot of these marketing tech tools are quite expensive, you 328 00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:10.339 know, especially if you're going big enterprise stuff. You know, you could 329 00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:15.019 be upwards of a hundred k right for some of these tools. And same 330 00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:18.380 deal there. You don't want some you know, some Hack Company, you 331 00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:22.700 know, just putting together the top a hundred marketing tools you need for two 332 00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:26.130 thousand and twenty and and having some unreliable source give you that information, right. 333 00:24:26.769 --> 00:24:30.130 And in fact, I'm curious as to who ranks for that. So 334 00:24:30.210 --> 00:24:33.690 let's see best marketing tools two thousand and twenty. Let's just see. I 335 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:37.289 guarantee you. My prediction here is it's going to be a mix of hub 336 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:42.200 spot, the one of the big publisher sites like Forbes or ink, and 337 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.079 you're probably also going to see some one of those comparison sites like GTO more 338 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:53.150 or software advice or get APP. And it's clearly general term. I think 339 00:24:53.190 --> 00:25:00.069 if you see like small business rm would be interesting. Yeah, well, 340 00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:03.230 that one I get, I can guarantee you because I used to work at 341 00:25:03.269 --> 00:25:04.150 pipe drive, so I know what you're going to see for that. You're 342 00:25:04.150 --> 00:25:07.539 going to see pipe drive, you're going to see sales force and to see 343 00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:10.539 hub spot. You see all the the software review sites. Let's see best 344 00:25:10.579 --> 00:25:14.099 marketing tools two thousand and twenty. I'm curious. Now we've got organic. 345 00:25:15.019 --> 00:25:18.380 Wow, so this is fascinating. Some company I never heard of before, 346 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:25.890 digital agency NETWORKCOM. They outranked hub spot, which I predicted would be there 347 00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:30.089 single grain. I know them. That's a legit company. strout social okay, 348 00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:33.049 so I'm actually curious about this digital agency network result. I'm going to 349 00:25:33.089 --> 00:25:37.440 go in there. Okay, don't main a thirty of forty nine. Not 350 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.319 Bad. Hmm, let's see. So I see a bunch of links here 351 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.079 and I'm going to inspect the links to see if they're no follow or follow. 352 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.640 Yeah, they are. Actually, they're all do follow links, which 353 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.349 is interesting. So this doesn't seem to be an affiliate play. What this 354 00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:59.910 seems to be is a play to drive kind of awareness to this agency's website 355 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:04.380 in hopes that whoever searching for this may also need agency help from a marketing 356 00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:11.579 company and potentially hit them up for marketing services. That's that's the play there. 357 00:26:11.660 --> 00:26:15.299 But the reason why they blog post or their home page. It's gone 358 00:26:15.339 --> 00:26:18.970 to a blog post that has a huge list of digital marketing tools. Now, 359 00:26:18.049 --> 00:26:22.849 the reason they were able to outrank hub spot is very simple actually. 360 00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:27.849 So it comes down to like content, comprehensiveness and and when you look at 361 00:26:27.890 --> 00:26:33.079 a search result and you see something like hub spot, the sixteen best digital 362 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.519 marketing tools in two thousand and twenty, well, guess what's going to beat 363 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.880 that? If you do the twenty five best, because there's more. Right. 364 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:47.869 So, searchers want more, but you have to draw the line of 365 00:26:48.029 --> 00:26:51.509 when is it too much? Like I don't want to look at a hundred 366 00:26:51.509 --> 00:26:53.549 and fifty best credit cards. I want to know what the top five are, 367 00:26:53.589 --> 00:26:56.710 right. So it kind of does vary fromage, right, and I 368 00:26:57.029 --> 00:27:00.859 use the strategy at sales haccker like to the tea. So if I search 369 00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:06.259 best sales tools, I could bet that salesacker is still number one, or 370 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:08.460 at least number two, and it's held that ranking since I've been there. 371 00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:11.740 Are since I was there and like two thousand and seventeen. So let's see 372 00:27:12.619 --> 00:27:18.849 best sales tools. Yeah, salesacer still number one. And the reason why 373 00:27:18.930 --> 00:27:22.690 salesaccer is still number one is because we looked at that result and every company 374 00:27:22.769 --> 00:27:27.369 in there had like twenty five best tools, fifty best tools. I said, 375 00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:30.319 you know what, man, let's let's let's go full out attack a 376 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:37.440 hundred and fifty tools and let's chop it up by category and automatically boom number 377 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:42.400 one, because it's the most comprehensive and it has the most selection and actually 378 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.309 it was the most user friendly result because it chopped all the tools up by 379 00:27:45.390 --> 00:27:49.269 category. Right. So if you have a huge list and you just expect 380 00:27:49.269 --> 00:27:52.869 people to go through a one by one, it's going to be tough. 381 00:27:52.950 --> 00:27:56.230 But if you chop it up by category or some filtering mechanism. It's going 382 00:27:56.269 --> 00:28:00.220 to be easier to go through that result. You're probably going to get higher 383 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:04.539 engagement, higher time on page, lower bouncery. All these things kind of 384 00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:10.819 play and to ranking factor. So it's all related. It's always tough when 385 00:28:10.819 --> 00:28:12.289 you look at a search term and you know they're searching for a list because 386 00:28:12.289 --> 00:28:17.650 the keyword is plural. It's tools, not tool. It's does rules you. 387 00:28:17.769 --> 00:28:19.690 So they're looking for ideas. So you know, like you're always going 388 00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:22.009 to be able to beat like if hub spots home page is ranking, you're 389 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:25.970 going to beat them because, well, they're only one tool and they're looking 390 00:28:25.970 --> 00:28:27.880 for a list. It doesn't match the intent. So I always try to 391 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.160 figure out, like, okay, is this intent? Are they really looking 392 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.440 for a large list? What are they really looking for? What's the best 393 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.160 thing I can offer value on? Do they want to curated list or that 394 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.880 they want to complete list? Right, we have to sit there and actually 395 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:42.990 like think about what people are actually searching for. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes 396 00:28:44.029 --> 00:28:48.750 the plurality changes the results slightly, like like so best sales tool versus sales 397 00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:52.829 tools is almost the same result. There's a few different ones in here, 398 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:56.980 but like in our industry, clad communication, like if you search business phone 399 00:28:56.019 --> 00:29:02.420 service versus, say, business phone systems, it's going to be different. 400 00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:06.420 Yeah, so there are nuances within each article that I think you're only going 401 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:10.569 to learn and figure out over time. So if an asparian thought leader like 402 00:29:10.690 --> 00:29:15.130 wanted to gain some traction, they're got some things going on. They probably 403 00:29:15.130 --> 00:29:18.089 been blogging, they're been working linkedin, they got some things going on. 404 00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:22.849 Where would where? Would you recommend they get started with Seo in order to 405 00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:27.279 start building that authority online in order to rank for keywords? Yeah, it 406 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:33.319 always helps if you actually do the thing that you're writing about. Right that 407 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:36.720 I you know, let's just call it for what it is. If I 408 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.509 am a music producer and I am making beats and I am producing songs and 409 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:48.069 putting records out and I'm working with other artists and I'm actually getting placements and 410 00:29:48.150 --> 00:29:52.779 I'm, you know, I have an artist profile on spotify and apple music 411 00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.019 and things like that, I'm growing a social media fan base, all these 412 00:29:56.019 --> 00:30:00.660 sorts of things, and I decide to start blogging about my journey as a 413 00:30:00.700 --> 00:30:06.859 music producer. Well, I think that really right. There is the credibility 414 00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:11.329 part. Right, like I'm actually doing. I explain what I'm learning by 415 00:30:11.450 --> 00:30:17.369 doing. Where you get into trouble is if you're not the person that is 416 00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:22.160 doing what you're writing about and you're just trying to make it up and you're 417 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:29.640 trying to search what's out there repackage it in your own voice. But it's 418 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:33.319 but the problem is that people can really sniff that out. Now they know, 419 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:38.029 especially the more specific your vertical is, like, I don't know, 420 00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:44.190 let's say free shipping, Terminal Shipping, port shipping. I have a friend 421 00:30:44.190 --> 00:30:48.190 who's in that world. You there's no way you can fake that. It's 422 00:30:48.269 --> 00:30:52.500 too hard, and that's I think the problem with like be to be marketing 423 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:55.700 blogs and sales blogs. A lot of the stuff is just so a generic. 424 00:30:56.380 --> 00:31:00.019 There's people scraping and reap, you know, spinning content all day long, 425 00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:07.170 and it's easier to fake that stuff. That's why the authorship is even 426 00:31:07.170 --> 00:31:11.930 more important in industries where you can just fake shit, because they will know. 427 00:31:12.130 --> 00:31:15.890 Okay, guys Ono, is this a person who actually does be remarketing? 428 00:31:15.930 --> 00:31:18.799 Yes, he's done it at this and that and this and that. 429 00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:25.680 He's qualified to to talk about this subject matter. So that that is really 430 00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:29.599 what I think is the is the core most important thing, like is the 431 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.509 company or the person giving the information, the person actually doing it? So 432 00:31:33.829 --> 00:31:37.549 if you're, if you're actually the person doing it, then I think you 433 00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:41.710 have a huge advantage. And then you can start going on forms like Cora 434 00:31:41.589 --> 00:31:47.069 answering questions every day. Then you need some kind of starting point. Right 435 00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:49.299 you can either start blogging on your own, on your own website, talking 436 00:31:49.339 --> 00:31:52.740 about your journey, or you can go on places like Cora where people are 437 00:31:52.779 --> 00:31:59.140 asking questions about that specific thing. You can start a podcast, get interviewed 438 00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:02.410 on podcasts. I'm a big advocate of that. Start doing things on social 439 00:32:02.410 --> 00:32:06.890 media regularly, like creating a video series or something like that, start a 440 00:32:06.930 --> 00:32:09.450 youtube channel, but it all has to come from a place of authenticity and 441 00:32:09.890 --> 00:32:15.130 genuineness, kind of like what we started talking about in the beginning Eve documenting 442 00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:16.559 my journey as a producer. You know, that's what it really comes down 443 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:22.960 to. It's you should be giving advice on what you're qualified to give advice 444 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.480 about, because you're doing it, and if you're not, then you should 445 00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:29.200 stop doing it. I think that's just what it really comes down to. 446 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:30.910 I mean it's hard to be a thought leader where? No, you're not 447 00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:36.390 right. If you want to be a thought lay a certain it's certain area. 448 00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:37.470 It's like, okay, well, go and read the top ten books 449 00:32:37.509 --> 00:32:42.069 in that thing you know exactly. Go and do the deed and then you'll 450 00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:45.940 have something to write about and people will actually have some you'll have some interesting 451 00:32:45.940 --> 00:32:52.700 thoughts about. Said nothing exactly. There's my friend the JOCKO. He he 452 00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:55.380 says he's had a brilliant quote, like back in the sales sacred time that 453 00:32:55.460 --> 00:33:00.210 I was there, but he said to be a thought leader you actually have 454 00:33:00.289 --> 00:33:04.769 to have a thought and you know, that really hits home big because the 455 00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:08.490 problem is everybody wants to be Gary V, but they have you know, 456 00:33:08.609 --> 00:33:14.480 they're forgetting Gary v. In order to become Gary v had to, you 457 00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:20.119 know, be he started his wine store series talking about wine every day for 458 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.559 like three years straight. He learned everything there's to learn about wine. He 459 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.599 picks something he was passionate about, learned as much as he could about that 460 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:31.509 area and then he became qualified through doing okay. So if you want to 461 00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:35.990 be a thought leader, you actually have to know deeply about one thing, 462 00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:40.109 more than everybody else, or a lot more than everybody else and you need 463 00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:43.779 to be unique in that. And if you know, you just can't be 464 00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:47.259 a thought leader for the purely for the social media glory. And that's what 465 00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:51.859 I see having a linkedin. A lot of people screaming from the sidelines, 466 00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:58.369 make a noise but very little substance. So steps, steps aspiring thought leaders 467 00:33:58.410 --> 00:34:02.289 can take is learn everything they can and publish. Essentially, you need to 468 00:34:02.329 --> 00:34:06.849 publish a lot, preferably, I usually think like on a mix of things, 469 00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:10.840 like you said on Cora, linkedin. Read it your own blog. 470 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:14.960 You really want to be publishing all the time to start sending signals to Google 471 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:16.760 that like hey, like you're out there and people are answering you, you're 472 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:22.679 having conversations with people, you're publishing stuff. I even find the rate that 473 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.710 you published to be a big factor. Like if you publish a lot, 474 00:34:24.869 --> 00:34:28.469 like for a couple of months, like, Google gets a hint. Versus 475 00:34:28.590 --> 00:34:31.030 like a blog a month, it'll take forever. But if you published like, 476 00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:35.750 I mean if you publish something ridiculous like sixtyzero words and three months, 477 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.099 like, Google's going to get the hint, like hey, this is somebody 478 00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:40.940 on the topic, because you can't make that up. Unless you're like, 479 00:34:42.579 --> 00:34:47.179 I don't know. I've seen people set duels up to like scrape RSS feeds 480 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:51.420 and then rewrite them with robots. I don't know if you've seen those work. 481 00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:53.090 I have. I have. Yeah, disgusting, but it doesn't work. 482 00:34:53.130 --> 00:34:57.010 It's never going to work. Yeah, doesn't work. That was one 483 00:34:57.010 --> 00:35:00.130 thousand nine hundred and ninety seven sttrategy. I wanted to finish off this episode 484 00:35:00.409 --> 00:35:05.289 with some rapid fire questions for people who met like me, who, like, 485 00:35:05.610 --> 00:35:07.400 never like to stop learning. I'm always trying to learn as much as 486 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:13.239 I can. I'd if you rapid fire questions for Guytano, for myself selfishly, 487 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:15.199 and I'm sure, be valuable to the audience as well. So, 488 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:21.320 guytown ill like, what's your favorite marketing book? Okay, I don't know 489 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:22.510 if I have a true favorite, because there's a lot of them out of 490 00:35:22.590 --> 00:35:24.710 that I like, but I'll tell you what one I've been reading lately. 491 00:35:25.309 --> 00:35:30.989 It's one you're going to definitely know. It's called content based and networking by 492 00:35:30.110 --> 00:35:34.949 Jim's carberry Nice. Yeah, yeah, it didn't pain for that, I 493 00:35:34.989 --> 00:35:39.420 square. Well, it's great and actually I bought the book before coronavirus started 494 00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:45.099 and I only started getting into it now because it's the perfect book for right 495 00:35:45.099 --> 00:35:49.340 now, and I'll tell you why. Everybody's trying to figure out how to 496 00:35:50.090 --> 00:35:53.489 like. Let me start by saying this. Many companies are struggling big time 497 00:35:53.610 --> 00:36:00.010 with SDR performance right now because deals are getting pushed out or prospectors don't want 498 00:36:00.050 --> 00:36:05.880 to talk to vendors because really, evaluating tech is very, very, very 499 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:09.920 low on everyone's priority list right now. So the reason why content based networking 500 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:16.239 is perfect is because it gives you ways to connect with people in a more 501 00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:21.469 genuine and meaningful way during crisis times like right now, without being sales. 502 00:36:22.110 --> 00:36:25.590 So so the problem is a lot of sales out sales development teams, people 503 00:36:25.710 --> 00:36:30.789 doing out bound sales. They don't know how to engage without doing sales. 504 00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:34.380 They're like they have to do it more from a marketers lens and it's challenging 505 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.699 because they're not used to it. So if you read content based networking, 506 00:36:37.179 --> 00:36:43.659 you'll learn effective tactics for the basically doing what I just said, connecting and 507 00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:46.289 staying top of mine, delivering value, creating deposits, as they say, 508 00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:52.210 and building more meaningful connections with hard to reach prospects in hard to reach times 509 00:36:52.730 --> 00:36:57.130 such as coronavirus. Right now. I could say a lot about that book, 510 00:36:57.130 --> 00:37:00.769 but I'M gonna move on to the next question. Favorite Marketing blog or 511 00:37:00.849 --> 00:37:05.679 youtube channel, if you're youtube subscriber. Yeah, man, I've been digging 512 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.440 a treps A lot. Really like what they've been doing. The big fan 513 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.869 of back Linko. Brian Dean always has great content. I like how he's 514 00:37:15.909 --> 00:37:22.070 been doing a lot of publishing on his experimentation with Youtube as Seo that I 515 00:37:22.230 --> 00:37:27.429 think that's an area that has been underserved so so I love what he's doing 516 00:37:27.550 --> 00:37:32.300 there. I like reforgedcom. That's Brian Balfour. Great stuff there, and 517 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:39.019 I also enjoy the growth hackers newsletter, which I get once a week and 518 00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:45.289 it has like five big, big takeaway pieces there that are usually amas or 519 00:37:45.369 --> 00:37:50.489 growth experiments or big case studies. Yeah, so that's kind of some of 520 00:37:50.489 --> 00:37:52.210 the stuff that I like. Nice. I have heard of the forge when 521 00:37:52.210 --> 00:37:54.889 I'm going to go check that out. Growth Hacker has been a longtime favorite 522 00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:59.519 for sure. Favorite marketing thought leader, like who you looking up to these 523 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.840 days? Who You following? You know, there's not a thought tough. 524 00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:08.039 I don't know if I you know marketing thought leaders. I don't know, 525 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.599 man, I just feel like when I just hear that term it's just like 526 00:38:12.869 --> 00:38:16.789 it's just like so cringy, you know, like who can I really look 527 00:38:16.829 --> 00:38:20.909 up to? That there, that's like a marketing thought leader. I don't 528 00:38:20.909 --> 00:38:24.269 know, I feel like I I like the non thought leaders more like I 529 00:38:24.469 --> 00:38:30.659 enjoy the the the underdogs, the unknowns, the Best Gert the people in 530 00:38:30.699 --> 00:38:34.900 the dirt. Yeah, that's the best growth marketers that you never hear about 531 00:38:34.900 --> 00:38:38.219 are the people I like talking to because they're the ones doing the work and 532 00:38:38.780 --> 00:38:43.409 often, not always, but often the ones who are making the most noise 533 00:38:43.530 --> 00:38:45.690 and pump in their you know, content machines are just pumping out concept, 534 00:38:45.730 --> 00:38:49.769 pump, pump, pump, concept, constant content. You know, it's 535 00:38:49.809 --> 00:38:52.690 like I respect that a lot cause it's hard to do, but I also 536 00:38:52.730 --> 00:38:57.280 wonder how do you have time to actually get any work done? So, 537 00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.760 you know, it's tough for me when it comes to the marketing thought leaders. 538 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.800 I always kind of, you know, count one eye open, you 539 00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:07.440 know, kind of I kind of watch closely there. But in short, 540 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:12.550 I don't really have any true markering thought leaders. Like I like people who 541 00:39:12.550 --> 00:39:15.670 are doing cool shit, like Brian Dean from back Linko. I like Tim 542 00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:19.550 Solo from eight drafts. Like people who are at companies actually grinding it out. 543 00:39:19.989 --> 00:39:22.869 are kind of who I look up to. Nice. Those are people 544 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:25.980 worth looking up to. I mean those are thought leaders. Even if they're 545 00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:29.699 not, even if they don't have a bigger following is geary V. You 546 00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:31.820 know, they're right. They still got an audience. Those people still are 547 00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:37.659 influencing a crowd. Yeah, I like I like Gary V. Actually, 548 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:39.570 I can't watch too much of his content, though, because it's too much 549 00:39:39.610 --> 00:39:43.730 of the same thing. But I mean he's got a formula that works, 550 00:39:43.809 --> 00:39:47.570 you know, interviewing confused kids who are lost in need career direction, and 551 00:39:47.889 --> 00:39:53.159 you know, I mean it's genius right, like it's him giving young confused 552 00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:57.599 people like the hard dose of reality that they need, smack on them right 553 00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:00.199 in the face with it. And the reality is it's widely relatable content that 554 00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.239 most people are struggling with and it, you know, it just works. 555 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.150 But personally for me, you know, I don't fit into his target audience 556 00:40:07.190 --> 00:40:12.829 of people that he's trying to wow and wool over with his his content tactics. 557 00:40:12.869 --> 00:40:15.110 But I think he's pretty good. He says I'm really smart stuff. 558 00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:17.670 I don't agree with like everything he says, but he's dope. I got 559 00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:22.579 to give it up to for sure. and which what marketing channels the most 560 00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:25.420 exciting to you right now? You know, you would expect me to say 561 00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:34.300 Seo, but actually I'm getting more excited now about email marketing and paid marketing. 562 00:40:35.730 --> 00:40:39.530 Yeah, wasn't expecting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because really 563 00:40:39.809 --> 00:40:44.690 what I'm seeing is, you know, when you get a company to a 564 00:40:44.809 --> 00:40:49.289 point where you're getting a lot of leads and it's easy to kind of easy 565 00:40:49.329 --> 00:40:51.400 to get them in the door, but once you have them, you have 566 00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:53.760 to figure out how to convert them. That's the hard part, and I've 567 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:58.519 been getting more into into how do we, you know, take all the 568 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.480 top funnel and big you know, we're casting a wide net. We got 569 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:05.710 a lot of shrimp coming in all the time. Now how do we kind 570 00:41:05.710 --> 00:41:09.230 of refind that revenue engine a little bit more once we get them? And 571 00:41:10.550 --> 00:41:14.510 for so long a lot of my focus has been just getting more shrimp, 572 00:41:14.590 --> 00:41:17.550 getting more shrimp, getting more shrimp. And you know, now I'm kind 573 00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:22.019 of thinking more about, okay, let me understand these people on a deeper 574 00:41:22.059 --> 00:41:23.820 level. Once we kind of have them hooked, how do we reel them 575 00:41:23.860 --> 00:41:28.980 in a little bit more? And finally, I think landing page testing and 576 00:41:29.179 --> 00:41:35.050 and optimization of landing pages is is definitely something I'm really excited about right now. 577 00:41:35.650 --> 00:41:37.650 Man, that's awesome. Whoo man, that was a good show. 578 00:41:38.409 --> 00:41:42.210 We went through a lot of deep tactics. They are hopefully people were able 579 00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:45.170 to catch on to some of those. Got Down a work in the audience 580 00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:47.440 find and connect with you if they want to learn more about a number of 581 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:52.239 the things we talked about today. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You can 582 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:58.440 go to twitter. Follow me there at guys on o n Y. See. 583 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:01.150 Yeah, I would say following me on Linkedin as well, guys on 584 00:42:01.230 --> 00:42:07.590 on Danardy Linkedin. Then you can subscribe to my podcast, musicians in tech, 585 00:42:07.309 --> 00:42:12.869 the musicians in tech podcast. Big shout out to sweet phish media for 586 00:42:12.949 --> 00:42:15.550 helping me get that off the ground. Thank you, guys. Fantastic. 587 00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:17.980 Thanks so much for being on the podcast again. Thank you. It's been 588 00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:23.300 fun. then. Appreciate Him. Man, I hate it when podcasts incessantly 589 00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:27.659 ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because 590 00:42:27.739 --> 00:42:30.969 reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow podcast audience. So here's what 591 00:42:31.050 --> 00:42:34.889 we decided to do. If you leave a review for be to be growth 592 00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:38.409 in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James at Sweet 593 00:42:38.449 --> 00:42:43.210 Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, content 594 00:42:43.289 --> 00:42:45.920 based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We 595 00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.880 get a review, you get a free book. We both win.