June 12, 2020

1277: How This Content Marketing Team Brilliantly Responded to COVID-19 w/ Shannon Curran

Shannon Curran, Manager, Content Marketing at Quick Base, hosts “The New Normal” podcast, a fun and energetic project that grew organically out of the remote work environment she found herself in.

Not only did Shannon and her team have some fantastic results putting together an on-the-fly, Covid19 strategy, but she is a ball of brilliant and bright energy!

Join us for a look into some of Shannon’s strategic observations about content distribution, what you are probably overthinking and what is so passionate about being accountable to as a marketer.


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.070 Welcome back to the BV Growth Show. My name is James Carberry and I'm 2 00:00:08.070 --> 00:00:12.310 joined today by Shannon Curran. She's the manager of content marketing at quick base 3 00:00:12.630 --> 00:00:15.830 and she's the host of the new normal. Shannon, I'm really excited to 4 00:00:15.869 --> 00:00:18.510 chat with you. We connected on Linkedin, I think it was just a 5 00:00:18.550 --> 00:00:22.859 few days ago, and I really loved what you and your team at a 6 00:00:22.940 --> 00:00:26.899 quick base are doing with content marketing in the wake of what's everything that's going 7 00:00:26.899 --> 00:00:29.980 on in the world right now with covid nineteen. So shouldn't tell us a 8 00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:32.500 little bit about quick bass and then tell us a little bit about your role 9 00:00:32.619 --> 00:00:35.890 in your team? So folks have contact going into this conversation. Awesome. 10 00:00:35.969 --> 00:00:39.049 Thanks for having me. Just as a warning, I'm typically on James's side, 11 00:00:39.170 --> 00:00:43.130 so I'm not going to put the one being interviewed, but I'm willing 12 00:00:43.210 --> 00:00:45.649 to. You know, I'm up for the challenge. So yeah, so 13 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:50.560 I manage our content marketing team at quick base. We are the only enterprise 14 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:55.399 software platform for operational agility, so we're bb software, just as many of 15 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:59.399 you are in the lowcode category. So we've actually our technologies been around for 16 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:02.799 twenty years and we used to be a part of into it. We divested, 17 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:03.950 I think it was, I'm going to have to check this mate, 18 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:07.069 was like five or two years ago, and yes, we've just been growing 19 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:11.750 ever since. It's pretty exciting. It's a really unique opportunity kind of carving 20 00:01:11.829 --> 00:01:15.989 out our own category, which is pretty cool. So I came to quick 21 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:21.260 bass about a year ago and a little over a year and I came in 22 00:01:21.540 --> 00:01:23.980 as a completely different role. Came in the same day as a new CMO 23 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:27.859 who I now feel very grateful to have worked with. But my first week 24 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:32.459 my boss left gave us notice, so that was not great. So, 25 00:01:33.250 --> 00:01:36.370 but it gave us an opportunity to really think about, like, what does 26 00:01:36.609 --> 00:01:41.250 content marketing mean at quick face? And so that's the stuff I like live 27 00:01:41.370 --> 00:01:44.810 for, like I love this stuff. So I've built the function over the 28 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:48.920 last year. So on my team I have a writer, I have someone 29 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.200 that runs social and then I also have a video producer and then we also 30 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:56.680 work with a contractor called work genius and they are like a bench of freelancers 31 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.560 for us that we utilize. But we're still growing, like I have many 32 00:02:00.549 --> 00:02:04.469 recks that I would love to fill moving in the next few years, but 33 00:02:04.590 --> 00:02:07.909 we're kind of just we finally have like our strategy really set and we're just 34 00:02:07.989 --> 00:02:13.469 starting to move. So we really do so at our core, quick base 35 00:02:13.830 --> 00:02:22.379 is enabling problem solvers and businesses to run as agile quickly as possible, and 36 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:27.500 it's sort of all of those like unique workflows around your core systems that we 37 00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:30.969 are really there to optimize. Like that's what we do. That's our bread 38 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:34.530 and butter, right, like it's all of those workflows that are really specific 39 00:02:34.650 --> 00:02:37.729 to you where we want to run those. So a good example is like 40 00:02:37.849 --> 00:02:42.409 my content creation process that a lot of people would use like a project management 41 00:02:42.449 --> 00:02:46.080 tool, like a Trello or something like that to use and then maybe use 42 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:49.879 like a publishing software to use. I built all of our custom on quick 43 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:53.919 bass and like I I can build it, which I am awful at type 44 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:57.439 of Shal So, if I will tell you, I do get help sometimes 45 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:00.389 or things that are really like specific, like really tough relationships or like formulas, 46 00:03:00.469 --> 00:03:04.750 but it is a really cool tool to say that we like kind of, 47 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:06.870 you know, the eat your own dog food kind of thing. We 48 00:03:06.909 --> 00:03:08.669 use our own tools every day. So we run our campaign's, we run 49 00:03:08.669 --> 00:03:14.500 our everything like that. So when it comes to get back to sort of 50 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:17.900 like what my team does is we really are, I call us the matter 51 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:23.020 meter, so we are sort of like the clock of what, why does 52 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:25.819 it matter and who does it matter too? And we're the ones that are 53 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:30.050 really the we craft the story and put it out into the market. So, 54 00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:34.849 whether it's video content, social only content, blog content, we're really 55 00:03:34.849 --> 00:03:37.849 trying to figure out how to humanize exactly what we do, and that's what 56 00:03:37.930 --> 00:03:40.129 I love about what I do. So doesn't really matter what industry work in. 57 00:03:40.250 --> 00:03:44.280 Like humans are buying whatever you're selling, so you need to talk to 58 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.879 them in a way that sort of you understand what keeps them up at night 59 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:52.000 and who help them solve those problems to make their lives a little bit easier. 60 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:57.669 I love that idea of recognizing the humanity and business. Yes, I 61 00:03:57.789 --> 00:04:00.870 say all the time my friend Eathan bew wrote a book called Rehumanize Your Business. 62 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:04.150 He's a cohost of this show, and I say all the time we 63 00:04:04.189 --> 00:04:08.430 don't use the word friendship and business enough. I just think we think of 64 00:04:08.590 --> 00:04:12.860 business is this as this thing where it's, I don't know, it's cold 65 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:16.379 and sterile and but we're all humans and so I love the its and pipeline 66 00:04:16.420 --> 00:04:20.620 and velocity, and you're like what it really is is, like your product 67 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:26.769 is uniquely positioned to solve a problem for someone that is like bashing their head 68 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:29.649 against all every days, like that is really what you're doing. And so, 69 00:04:29.850 --> 00:04:32.449 like what we're trying to do is just tell those stories so that it 70 00:04:32.529 --> 00:04:38.050 can unite other people to also help solve those same problems. And it's funny 71 00:04:38.050 --> 00:04:41.800 because I have a I didn't come with the business background. I was a 72 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.279 journalist for a little while Ork to nonprofit, like a storyteller, communicator, 73 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:48.560 and I did go to busines school, so I just finished, actually right 74 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:54.709 now, I can grab it. Would have graduated tomorrow and so, but 75 00:04:54.790 --> 00:04:58.389 I think I come with a different perspective than a lot of like marketing majors 76 00:04:58.430 --> 00:05:00.949 may have had, right, because I was able to figure out like the 77 00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:04.230 story first, and that's why my writer on my team is a journalist. 78 00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:10.459 I hired her. She's a journalist with a Dallas News and because she tells 79 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:13.220 such a compelling story. Like I can teach her how to write a white 80 00:05:13.220 --> 00:05:15.699 paper, one pager or like whatever, like the format doesn't really matter, 81 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:18.899 and I'll teach her about the sales monnel, but it really matters is like 82 00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:21.129 how to crack the story, how to tell the story, and who are 83 00:05:21.129 --> 00:05:25.410 you telling it for? And who's better at that than journalists? Right? 84 00:05:25.529 --> 00:05:27.970 So, see, I think that's probably why I think about a little bit 85 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:32.050 different and I love that approach of thinking about content marketers through the Lens of 86 00:05:32.490 --> 00:05:38.240 when you're recruiting talent for roles like that, looking for people with those skill 87 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:43.720 sets and you can teach the business acumen and that that that is certainly necessary. 88 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.879 They need to, over time, learn the industry and learn the you 89 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:48.839 know what words to say and the content text of how that you know how 90 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:53.350 to say it's certain phrases in a way that doesn't make your brand look aloof 91 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:58.110 but I think if they can tell a compelling story, they're at least seventy 92 00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:01.029 percent of the way there. So I love that you looked for that whenever 93 00:06:01.069 --> 00:06:03.620 you were looking to grow your team. Shannon, I want to I want 94 00:06:03.620 --> 00:06:09.339 to talk to you about your approach kind of post covid nineteen, because you've 95 00:06:09.379 --> 00:06:13.220 had an interesting approach with your content. You actually went to your customer facing 96 00:06:13.379 --> 00:06:16.100 teams and you tap their shoulder and said, hey, we want to know 97 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:21.889 from our customers what are the problems that they're facing because of what's going on 98 00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:26.649 in our world right now, because we want to create the most helpful content 99 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.850 we possibly can for them. Can you walk us through kind of the thinking 100 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:33.000 and the execution of how you went about doing that and and from what I 101 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:38.399 understand, you guys were able to quickly execute on that and and you saw 102 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.519 results because of it. So walk us through kind of that journey? Yeah, 103 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.480 absolutely, so we learned a lot. We would probably not do it 104 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.790 exactly the same way again, but I will explain to you sort of what 105 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:53.870 happens. So we went remote a little bit earlier than a lot of other 106 00:06:53.990 --> 00:06:57.750 companies because we are very well equipped to work promote like we are. And 107 00:06:58.069 --> 00:07:00.660 you know, the first conversations around covid were really around our user conference, 108 00:07:01.180 --> 00:07:04.300 which is actually coming up on a second on June second, and so the 109 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:09.459 first conversation about covid was like do we need to postpone our conference because, 110 00:07:09.459 --> 00:07:11.300 you know, like all of the big ones, that adobe one, like 111 00:07:11.339 --> 00:07:13.540 all that kind of stuff was happening, and then we were like wait a 112 00:07:13.579 --> 00:07:15.050 minute, no, I think we need to like postpone our lives like I 113 00:07:15.050 --> 00:07:18.810 don't think anyone knew how big this was going to get. So we all 114 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:23.209 went remote and in that first weekend, I think we want promote on a 115 00:07:23.250 --> 00:07:26.490 Thursday at first weekend, I get a like an email from a sales rep 116 00:07:26.649 --> 00:07:30.879 that's like we can do more, and she seefeed like the chief revenue officer 117 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.279 and my boss and Cmo, and she was like what are we gonna do, 118 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:38.439 like because we have so many customers that were uniquely position so one of 119 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.879 our greatest values is that we have a really quick time to value, like 120 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.790 apt built, working next day, like this is not like a large scale 121 00:07:46.829 --> 00:07:49.350 digital transformation project. This is like you have a problem, we can build 122 00:07:49.350 --> 00:07:51.310 a customer to help fix it, or you really can build it, but 123 00:07:51.430 --> 00:07:56.430 we're going to help you and then you're implemented the next day. And so 124 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:01.100 there is there was a like a hunger from our team to help. And 125 00:08:01.300 --> 00:08:05.540 so the best part about like our jobs I didn't have to make up that 126 00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:09.379 story like it actually happened. I was see seed on that email and of 127 00:08:09.459 --> 00:08:11.180 course I like call my boss. I'm like that's not my choice to make. 128 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:13.970 What a we can do it. So he was like don't worry, 129 00:08:15.009 --> 00:08:18.129 we've been working on all weekend, like like just I'll brief you on Monday, 130 00:08:18.329 --> 00:08:22.329 like go and also go. Okay, so on Monday we find out 131 00:08:22.410 --> 00:08:26.370 we're going to we've crafted this offer. We're going to try and give our 132 00:08:26.449 --> 00:08:31.000 product for free for frontline organizations that are trying to come back covid. We're 133 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.320 working on it. We should have it spun up up by Friday. But 134 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:37.480 we also have a lot of customers that were just helping that are doing like 135 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:43.269 amazing things with our product already, and so there was like two sides here. 136 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:46.190 So what I kind of did is, you know, I went on 137 00:08:46.350 --> 00:08:50.230 every slack channel of every customer facing team and said, can you just tell, 138 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:52.149 like drop a line of a story of a customer that you're helping right 139 00:08:52.149 --> 00:08:56.299 now and what they're doing? I just want to collect them, like let's 140 00:08:56.419 --> 00:09:01.220 and then then, of course, my my like bandit experience turned into like 141 00:09:01.299 --> 00:09:03.419 product marketing, being like we probably should actually create like some framework around this. 142 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.299 Now it's like okay, okay, so I would try to agree. 143 00:09:07.899 --> 00:09:11.409 So we gathered all this information and we really did find that what there were 144 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:15.889 seems right, there were it tracking apps that were coming up because they had 145 00:09:15.929 --> 00:09:18.690 to send out computers to all of these people that are now remote. There 146 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:24.399 were supply chains that were like falling apart, and so now we have companies 147 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.399 that are asking us to extend applications to other parts of their supply chain that 148 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.039 they didn't originally use us for, but they were spinning up the stuff so 149 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.919 fast. And there were I think almost seventy five volunteers and in our company 150 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.990 that volunteered to work outside of their current jobs to help a customers solve the 151 00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:43.110 problem. Right, and because we have like whizzz of quick face that work 152 00:09:43.269 --> 00:09:46.789 in the I am not one of them. So like I should never volunteer 153 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:50.350 to help the customer build ups, but there are some we have likes. 154 00:09:50.549 --> 00:09:54.659 Some of our solutions consultants are amazing, right and so, and we're not 155 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:58.340 a professional services organization, but we did step in. And so what my 156 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:01.779 team did is we're like, all right, so what's the messaging for our 157 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.019 current campaigns? We should stay a line to that. We know what it's 158 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.250 resonating, but what do we think those people are thinking about right now? 159 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:11.850 They're no longer thinking about it six weeks from now, six months from now, 160 00:10:13.289 --> 00:10:16.529 and we found that it was really so we have a framework around like 161 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:20.450 operational excellence, and we were like how do we say, like what are 162 00:10:20.490 --> 00:10:22.840 the five things they need to look at tomorrow to make sure that their operations 163 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.159 are safe and set? And so my writer, Julie, literally like she 164 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.519 was like, great, I can totally take that white paper that I wrote 165 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:33.639 and turn it into a blog post that is relevant for right now and I'll 166 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.070 have a published by the end of the day and I'll look at like we 167 00:10:37.190 --> 00:10:39.990 had our SEO team look at some search terms, but if they were still 168 00:10:39.990 --> 00:10:43.350 so new right she was like people are kind of searching for coronavirus, but 169 00:10:43.389 --> 00:10:45.549 they're kind of searching for covid nineteen, and I was like, okay, 170 00:10:45.629 --> 00:10:46.590 just putting whatever you can put in. We're going to send it out, 171 00:10:48.029 --> 00:10:52.740 and all of our outbound teams were using that content to be able to educate 172 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.419 the conversations they were having with customers. So that was really one part and 173 00:10:56.580 --> 00:11:01.740 since then we've just learned so much and we've been augmenting. I think the 174 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.610 thing is sometimes I think we're a little bit sacred with content and we think 175 00:11:05.649 --> 00:11:11.129 that we're like making billboards or printing brochures, and it's like that's not what 176 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:13.610 we're doing. We're publishing something digitally that that can be changed at any time. 177 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.330 Honestly, Google loves when you change stuff. They want you to keep 178 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:20.679 updating things. So you should put something out there and learn if it's not 179 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.480 wrong, like it doesn't it's the stuffy. You're saying isn't incorrect. It 180 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:28.879 just may not be the closest, but like get it out there, learn 181 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:33.470 from it, especially on social like you can learn so much from that audience. 182 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:37.350 And so there was that, and then there was this like really strong 183 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:41.990 want by our team to tell the stories of our customers, whereas everyone, 184 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:45.509 and be tob knows that those are the hardest stories to tell because you got 185 00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:48.220 approvals to got things like. There's a whole slew of that, and we 186 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:52.700 were like, what if we talk to our customer facing teams internally about sort 187 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.899 of like anonymously the work that they're doing? And so that's the way we 188 00:11:56.940 --> 00:12:00.860 kind of got around that and I was able to produce our first video series 189 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:05.570 with my video producer. In one week after we went remote, we published 190 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.850 the first episode of the new normal and now we've had an episode every single 191 00:12:07.970 --> 00:12:13.490 Friday and we now we've also interviewed customers to be on the show, so 192 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:18.759 it is evolving. I think the big thing is all the stuff that you 193 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.639 think is in your way as a content creator, whether it's quality, gear, 194 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.799 resources, time, a lot of that was kind of just like thrown 195 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.350 out the window. It was like, at this point, like I'm going 196 00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:33.070 to make a podcast on zoo and that is it. Like that is we 197 00:12:33.190 --> 00:12:35.950 I do not send me your rig I don't have one. I have some 198 00:12:37.070 --> 00:12:39.269 bad lighting and two pats running around, but like this is what we're going 199 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:41.990 to do and we're going to see how it works. You know, and 200 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:48.580 I think as long as you're talking like authentically to people about things that they 201 00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:52.259 care about, like, like that's when content works, right. You know, 202 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:54.860 I'm not going to tell you that we saw Tenzero, you know, 203 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:58.259 likes on our First Cup of our first steps. Of course you didn't like. 204 00:12:58.419 --> 00:13:01.409 Absolutely not. But like it is a growing every week. Yeah, 205 00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:05.289 and like is it continuing to gain? Because content doesn't go away. When 206 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:07.570 it's weekly, right, people come back and watch it and you can rerelease 207 00:13:07.570 --> 00:13:11.610 it on different platforms and like I think that's the thing you just kind of 208 00:13:11.649 --> 00:13:16.960 keep to keep perspective that you're never going to get a perfect for today's gross 209 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.399 story, we're talking about all state. I'll stay offers best in class products 210 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.629 and services that provide innovative protection and retirement solutions to millions of households nationwide. 211 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:33.350 But when all state needed to increase traffic and conversion rates on their website, 212 00:13:33.629 --> 00:13:37.590 they knew they should turn to the pros at Directive. 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Sign 221 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:20.240 up today at Directive Consultingcom Institute and get your first four lessons on us. 222 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.870 Once again, that's directive consultingcom institute to get for free lessons from the pros. 223 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:30.750 All right, let's get back to the show. We have people asking 224 00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:33.110 us that all the time. Obviously us, you know, being in the 225 00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:37.269 business of podcasting, being a podcast we've got we've got people asking us like 226 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:39.820 well, well, we want to we want to try it for three months 227 00:14:39.019 --> 00:14:43.379 and and measure the results after three months. And it's like, that's not 228 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.820 how this channel works. And and we want to put out, you know, 229 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:48.659 one episode every two months, and it's just like that's not how it 230 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:52.129 works either. Like you have to put out content consistently. You have to 231 00:14:52.169 --> 00:14:56.889 be committed to it for the long game to really see results from it. 232 00:14:56.490 --> 00:15:00.649 And I love that you what you just said about the content is ever green. 233 00:15:00.690 --> 00:15:03.409 The content you put out three weeks ago in large part, is probably 234 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:07.919 going to be pretty relevant eight, nine and ten months totally. And so 235 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.639 thinking about content that way, I also love that you talked about this. 236 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.440 The content of most of the content we create is not this sacred thing that 237 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:20.429 we need to nitpick apart and in add months to the production cycle. Just 238 00:15:20.549 --> 00:15:24.549 get it out there and learn from your audience. Learn what's resonating, learn 239 00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:28.470 what's not. Like I posted something on Linkedin the other day about common mistakes 240 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.149 that that companies are making with their show and there was one particular thing in 241 00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:37.220 that list of five that I listed. It seemed to really resonate a lot 242 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.620 of people commented on like, Oh, tell me more about this thing. 243 00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:43.820 Well, that tells me, Hey, I need to create more content around 244 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.940 this particular mistake that we said. It's free market research. Yes, great 245 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:52.009 work at research. On top of the Elevenzero views that the twenty minute status 246 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:56.210 update that it took me to write got for for our brand. So I'm 247 00:15:56.330 --> 00:16:00.129 super aligned with this. Shannon, I think we're thinking about this in the 248 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:03.570 same way. My question to you is based on the obviously, you know, 249 00:16:03.690 --> 00:16:07.320 hopefully we never see a global pandemic like this in our lifetime. But 250 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.440 how do you apply what you've learned, what you and your team have learned 251 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.840 through this season? How do you then apply that to you know, to 252 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.909 not use, you know, the term the new normal to loosely here, 253 00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:22.870 but like when things do settle down, you know, a few months, 254 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:26.509 six, eight months down the road, how do you apply what you've learned? 255 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:30.509 You know, fast forward a year from now totally, and I think, 256 00:16:30.549 --> 00:16:33.299 I think my cmo would watch this and be like. Wasn't I telling 257 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:34.620 you this a year ago? And I will tell him, yes, that 258 00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:38.740 to be enough. That is so that there are we're creating like artificial barriers 259 00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:41.460 for ourselves, right, like that is what we are doing. I think 260 00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:45.860 a lot of I know, especially in the content fields, there's a lot 261 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:48.730 of us that are perfectionists. We were writers for a long time. We 262 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:52.129 wanted to produce. We were told we had to produce perfect drafts, we 263 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:55.850 had to we had to reach certain numbers, make sure we're hitting metrics, 264 00:16:55.970 --> 00:16:57.929 like all that stuff is super important, right you, quality is still the 265 00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:02.639 most important right. You want to put out something that's but the best you 266 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:07.319 can, like always. But I think the thing that I've learned is give 267 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.079 yourself some brain space to think beyond what you think you know, right, 268 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.400 and you think beyond what you think works or what hasn't worked in the past 269 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.109 or all that kind of stuff, and say you should always be running at 270 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:21.630 least one test all the time, right, so you have your natural patents 271 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:23.549 of like we know we want to put out a piece of pillar content every 272 00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:27.589 three months. We know we're refreshing. You know certain blood clost clusters like 273 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:32.940 consistently like that stuff should always happen right. Best practice is totally I'm still 274 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:36.140 learning every day about what the new thing you should keep doing is, but 275 00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:38.259 I think the biggest thing we've learned is, like you should always have one 276 00:17:38.259 --> 00:17:44.410 le Gut seer test that you're always running that will teach you something you couldn't 277 00:17:44.450 --> 00:17:48.730 have learned from a Webinar or something that you're like that you're running all the 278 00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:52.210 time. Right. So you know, we are thinking about taking our webinars 279 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:56.130 and cutting them into trailers and doing that as a preview for the landing page 280 00:17:56.170 --> 00:18:00.880 to get people to watch the full Webinar and then hopefully accelerate pipeline right. 281 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.400 And that's something that, like, we probably would have thought about a few 282 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.640 months ago, but we would have deprioritized because it wasn't like in the list 283 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.920 of things we had to do that we were accountable for. But I want 284 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.069 to tell my team that, like we are accountable for being creative, like 285 00:18:15.349 --> 00:18:19.309 that is what my team is meant to do. We are corporate creatives, 286 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:22.950 like that is what we are here for. And so I know that's probably 287 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:25.990 not a part of your O K are and it's not a part of like 288 00:18:26.150 --> 00:18:27.140 the thing that you talked about at the end of the year. Your view, 289 00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:30.619 but it is like the last thing impact you're going to make on a 290 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:33.660 company when you work on a brand team is like how creative could you be? 291 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:37.299 And so thinking about that as a task every week, you know, 292 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:41.730 like how can we run a test all the time at that is aligned to 293 00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:45.809 the business goals and totally like should be completely aligned a strategic but is a 294 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:48.289 little bit left of center of what you would typically do, and that's where 295 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:53.170 you're going to learn and sometimes they're going to fail, like but people will 296 00:18:53.170 --> 00:18:59.119 forget, because the Internet is like just forgets. Every will like right. 297 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:02.759 I think. I think we trick ourselves into thinking that. Way More people 298 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:06.079 are going to care then the amount of people that I actually will care, 299 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:10.509 and way more people are going to see the little mistake that we that that 300 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:14.269 we trip ourselves up over, even when you're doing personal videos, when you 301 00:19:14.470 --> 00:19:17.549 do something like a bombomb video or something like that, you we were just 302 00:19:17.589 --> 00:19:21.150 doing a training with Ethan yesterday on this and he was telling us she's like 303 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:26.019 so many people rerecord their video seventeen times because they didn't say the right thing 304 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:27.500 or they didn't you know, they they think they didn't say the right thing 305 00:19:27.579 --> 00:19:30.500 and when, in reality, the person on the receiving end of it, 306 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.220 they've got screaming kids in the background, they've got a life happening. They're 307 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:37.099 not they're not paying as close attention as as you as you think. And 308 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:41.250 so don't don't get tripped up on it and don't let it keep you from 309 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:45.930 from putting out content on a consistent basis, because you're trying to perfect every 310 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:49.170 little piece of it. So I love that shade out like the thing you 311 00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:55.440 said there. We are accountable as marketers in this organization to being creative. 312 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:00.640 Yeah, here enough marketers saying things like that. There's been this big movement 313 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.160 toward being data driven and we obviously need to be mindful of data, but 314 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.349 I think, I think there's so much power or that can be had from 315 00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:11.190 tapping into creativity and yourself. I'm seeing more and more. I see a 316 00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:17.190 lot of marketers like saying grambajer a terminus and kyle at lesson Lee and Dave 317 00:20:17.349 --> 00:20:19.630 Gearhart, I don't know where he's at now. Use a drift before. 318 00:20:19.630 --> 00:20:23.220 Yeah, I think he's that whole privy, marvy privy. Yeah, I 319 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:26.140 can remember the name of the new public. So folks that are really advocating 320 00:20:26.299 --> 00:20:30.660 for being creative. What you've done with the new normal, like pivoting, 321 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:33.460 like starting, starting a video show that then turned into a podcast on a 322 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:37.329 dime. Really I mean that. That's the kind of creative that I think 323 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:41.250 is going to push our organizations forward and ultimately help us reach, you know, 324 00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:47.730 our buyers more effectively. So I love part. Yeah, it is 325 00:20:48.609 --> 00:20:52.440 fun. Yeah, it's really fun. It's yeah, it's more than just 326 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.279 loading something up into your you know, in a Marquetto or like or looking 327 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.119 at data and Google analytics like. You get to do really fun work by 328 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:06.190 doing pressing in and doing the creative work, and I think that CMOS are 329 00:21:06.269 --> 00:21:11.069 being held accountable to creative, to their organs being creative, and I'm sure 330 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:15.109 somebody's going to come up some metric for how to measure it, but at 331 00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:18.380 the end of the day it's you know, I love that that message for 332 00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:22.779 marketers being you are accountable to your organization for being creative. I want to 333 00:21:22.819 --> 00:21:26.900 ask you a question, channing, that I always I always love getting the 334 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:30.500 responses to this, but is there is there a commonly held belief as it 335 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:36.049 relates to content marketing in a two thousand and twenty environment that you just passionately 336 00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:42.529 disagree with. There's probably a bunch, honestly, like I think that there's 337 00:21:42.569 --> 00:21:48.920 a misunderstand there's a misconception that a bunch of functions of content marketing are independent 338 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:55.720 of one another, like that SEO is different than copywriting, which is different 339 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:00.000 than content writing, which is different than podcasting, which is different than video. 340 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.269 And sure, to each one of those things take a different skill set, 341 00:22:03.589 --> 00:22:07.150 a different interest, but I think they're all in service to the same 342 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:11.630 thing, right, and I think that there's this people. I think people 343 00:22:11.630 --> 00:22:15.460 also sometimes think of content as like separate from the business, like it's some 344 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:21.019 separate arm that like it's just functioning to bring in and bound traffic and like 345 00:22:21.579 --> 00:22:22.779 who knows what happens then. You know what I mean? Like I think 346 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:27.660 there is this like understanding of like content just brings in traffic and then the 347 00:22:27.700 --> 00:22:32.089 business figures out what to do with the traffic. And I think the best 348 00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:34.890 content marketers that I've met are the ones that are so clued in with the 349 00:22:34.970 --> 00:22:40.849 value proposition of the business and how the business works and they are a strategic 350 00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:44.089 partner to the business. Like that is how I like to think about my 351 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.720 like my role, which is very like I'm a little bit of a more 352 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.599 of a consultant, roll across like like across teams to say, like, 353 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.759 how can we craft a really compelling story here? Let me think about the 354 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.029 channels that it probably will go best in, and then how can we decide 355 00:22:59.029 --> 00:23:00.430 if we know that it's working or not? Right, like, those are 356 00:23:00.509 --> 00:23:04.230 really the things I'm accountable for, and I think there's a misconception that, 357 00:23:04.390 --> 00:23:08.230 like, well, if we just like my favorite thing is to like Seo, 358 00:23:08.390 --> 00:23:11.349 something I'm sure you guys here all the time. I'm like that is 359 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.420 like not a thing, like to be clear, just not a thing, 360 00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:19.140 like it's and I have the best relationship with our digital experience manager who does 361 00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:23.619 our seoing, and her and I work in complete lock step because we have 362 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:26.690 to, like there is no other choice, right, because to serve the 363 00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:32.890 business, like we have to be collaborative and strategic, like that is just 364 00:23:33.009 --> 00:23:34.730 what it is. And so content and creative is not just like arts and 365 00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:38.890 crafts. It is like how we are strategic partners to the business. It's 366 00:23:40.009 --> 00:23:42.079 in my perspective, we're doing it right. So I think that there is 367 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.400 there's a few things in there, like the bifurcation of what we do, 368 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.680 plus the fact that people think sometimes just, you know, painting and feathers, 369 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.960 which I do think sometimes happens to so shanned in. My last question 370 00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.269 will be what are some common mistakes that you see content marketers in other organizations 371 00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:04.869 making? Yeah, I think the big one is deciding what your story is 372 00:24:04.990 --> 00:24:08.829 and then just telling it and not thinking about the story is not yours, 373 00:24:08.869 --> 00:24:14.099 it's theirs. So like, what is their story and how can you be 374 00:24:14.140 --> 00:24:17.460 a part of the conversation? And I think that there's I've seen a lot 375 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:21.539 of content strategies that have no persona information in them. That wild me out. 376 00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:25.289 I'm like, so you just came up with like you have your core 377 00:24:25.369 --> 00:24:27.210 values and your core story that you think is really important and you want to 378 00:24:27.250 --> 00:24:30.730 put it out in this market in a really like coordinated way, making sure 379 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:33.529 you tell four stories a week about these four pillars and you know, and 380 00:24:33.809 --> 00:24:38.920 making your internal stakehold is really happy. But if you're not talking to your 381 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.240 to the people that it matters to, then it's just going into a void, 382 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.079 like it does not and I think that that's the biggest mistake that I 383 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.680 see and then also not having like a real painence of knowing if your stuff 384 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:53.789 is working. However, you define that right, like I know we did. 385 00:24:53.950 --> 00:24:57.109 Like I don't want my team to get so bogged down on metrics that 386 00:24:57.230 --> 00:25:00.990 like they're looking at a ticker every day, but we do want to see 387 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.309 what's resonating, because that's like an indication that we were talking to someone about 388 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:07.299 something to care about. So we should then talk more, just like you're 389 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:11.220 saying about your Linkedin Post. Same thing. And so I think that there's 390 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:14.660 if you forget that what I keep on back to this, but if you 391 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:18.180 forget the humans on the other side of the equation, like you might as 392 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:21.730 what, you're just wasting time, like and you're probably writing great stuff, 393 00:25:21.730 --> 00:25:23.009 and I feel bad for your writers because I'm sure they're doing a great job, 394 00:25:23.130 --> 00:25:26.049 but, like it's not going to someone that it resonates with, yes, 395 00:25:26.450 --> 00:25:29.849 or you just get lucky, which is no one wants to get up, 396 00:25:29.849 --> 00:25:33.809 you know, and and and I love what you said earlier about content 397 00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:37.640 marketing being a very strategic function of the business. It's not art in crafts. 398 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:45.960 It's not painting Your Company's Narrative in twenty seven different ways. It's understanding 399 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.640 the persona that you're trying to serve or that you know your product service can 400 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:55.549 serve best, understanding them so well and having a deep desire to actually help 401 00:25:55.670 --> 00:26:00.470 them do their work better and if you can play a part in making you 402 00:26:00.549 --> 00:26:03.789 know, we spend a quote that we throw around around here a lot. 403 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:07.579 You know, the average person spends ninetyzero hours of their life at work, 404 00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:11.220 and our mission at swee fish is that we don't want people's ninetyzero hours. 405 00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:15.859 We don't want ninety thousand hours of anybody's life to suck, and so we 406 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:19.650 can create content that helps you get better at work, then we're playing a 407 00:26:19.730 --> 00:26:25.569 significant part in helping you enjoy a huge chunk of your life. And so 408 00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:29.809 I think content marketers that tap into that and understand it and genuinely have a 409 00:26:29.930 --> 00:26:33.440 specific type of person in mind that they know they can help and seek to 410 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.839 create content that helps those people, we're going to be in a we're going 411 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.160 to be at a much better spot and and you're going to see an influx 412 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.960 in demand for your product because totally we're going to see that and they can 413 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.029 sniff that from a mile away. So should this has been a fantastic conversation. 414 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:52.109 Thank you so much for joining us and being on that side of the 415 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:56.509 MIC for weird I call him. Sorry, no, no, I love 416 00:26:56.589 --> 00:27:00.619 it. How can folks connect with you? Learn more about Quick Bass, 417 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:04.380 find your show? Share with our listeners how how they can do those things? 418 00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:07.819 That? We'll wrap it up. Yeah, awesome. So you can 419 00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:10.700 find quick face at quick BASCOM, don't? We all love that? And 420 00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:15.569 we also have all our social channels on twitter, Linkedin and facebook. So 421 00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:21.529 typically we put out an episode of the new normal native on linkedin every Friday 422 00:27:21.569 --> 00:27:25.049 morning, but we also put the full length interview up on our Youtube Channel, 423 00:27:25.369 --> 00:27:27.529 which is just quick based on Youtube. Lucky, for being an older 424 00:27:27.569 --> 00:27:30.440 brand, we now have we have all of the stuff we need. And 425 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:36.039 then for finding me, I would say I'm probably most active professionally on Linkedin. 426 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.319 You can just find me at Channon, parentheses, tweeny, my previous 427 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:44.000 name current. Yeah, and I love talking to other sort of professionals in 428 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:45.829 this environment about what they're doing, what they're work what they're working on. 429 00:27:47.029 --> 00:27:49.910 I'm learning something new. I could probably do this interview every Friday and have 430 00:27:51.029 --> 00:27:53.549 something new to say because everything's changing so much, so so yeah, would 431 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.390 love to contain the conversation. Awesome. Thank you so much, Shannon. 432 00:27:56.430 --> 00:28:03.099 I really appreciate it. Thank you. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask 433 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:07.619 their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews 434 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:11.420 are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what 435 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:14.410 we decided to do. If you leave a review for be tob growth and 436 00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:18.009 apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish 437 00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:22.890 Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, content based 438 00:28:22.930 --> 00:28:26.529 networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get 439 00:28:26.569 --> 00:28:27.200 a review, you get a free book.