May 8, 2020

1256: The 3-Parts to Every B2B Sales Negotiation (& How to Approach Them) w/ Jeb Blount

In this episode we talk to Jeb Blount, CEO at Sales Gravy, Author, Keynote Speaker & Podcast Host.

Jeb shares a 3-part framework to every sales negotation & tips from his recently released book INKED: The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Closing and Sales Negotiation Tactics that Unlock YES and Seal the Deal.

Jeb defines the MLP framework (Motivation, Leverage, Power) in every B2B sales negotiation & how to manage negotiation throughout your entire sales process.

If you like this episode, you'll probably also love:

4 Strategies to Become a Master Negotiator in B2B Sales (Part 1) w/ Chris Voss

and

Why Deal Killers Are More Important Than Deal Makers in B2B Sales (Part 2) w/ Chris Voss


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:09.070 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:09.109 --> 00:00:12.949 I'm your host for today's episode. I am very glad to introduce today's 3 00:00:12.990 --> 00:00:16.230 guest. It is jebb blunt. He's the CEO over at sales gravy. 4 00:00:16.469 --> 00:00:21.579 He's an author, keynote speaker, podcast host himself all around sales acceleration specialist. 5 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:26.739 He is the author of several great sales books, including fanatical prospecting objections 6 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:30.179 and others that listeners of the show will probably know. His new book, 7 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:35.380 inked is all about how sales people can approach negotiation with more confidence. JEBB, 8 00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:38.009 welcome to the show. Well, thank you so much for having me 9 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:40.969 on. I appreciate that. And you know, we were just talking about 10 00:00:41.090 --> 00:00:45.289 how you've got one thirteen hundred episodes up. So I'm sold. I'm actually 11 00:00:45.329 --> 00:00:49.490 in all that's so many podcast episodes. I've been podcasting sin I think, 12 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:53.119 the original podcaster, and two thousand and seven. There weren't that many people 13 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.079 by that. It wasn't even cool. So one thousand three hundred that is 14 00:00:56.079 --> 00:01:00.280 quite an accomplishment. So I've feeled to completely honored that you invited me on. 15 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.479 Yeah, absolutely, you know it is funny, as we were talking 16 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:07.510 about, you know, podcastings going through this second wave right and you were 17 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.349 part of that first wave when podcasting kind of hit and the tech wasn't there 18 00:01:11.430 --> 00:01:15.310 in our lifestyle wasn't quite the fit that it is today. So it's cool 19 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:18.150 to talk to folks who have been through both ways, as we've kind of 20 00:01:18.150 --> 00:01:21.540 seen been at it a long time here at sweet fish. Well, Jeff, 21 00:01:21.620 --> 00:01:25.379 for anybody who is new to some of your content that sort of stuff, 22 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:26.939 give us a little bit of background. For anybody WHO's not familiar with 23 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:30.739 you, sales, bravy and some of the content that you're putting out. 24 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:36.049 Then we're going to dive into some negotiation lessons specifically out of your new book, 25 00:01:36.090 --> 00:01:38.209 inked. Absolutely well, a little bit of background me. I grew 26 00:01:38.209 --> 00:01:42.569 up in the trenches of cell so I've been selling since I was in college 27 00:01:42.969 --> 00:01:48.799 and I've done pretty much every role that you can possibly imagine, from frontline 28 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:53.879 salesperson all the way to head of sales running a thousand person cells organization. 29 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:59.920 Thirteen years ago, during the great recession, started seals gravy, which is 30 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.950 kind of a weird thing, and I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I 31 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:06.189 wanted to start a different kind of company. So I build cells gravy from 32 00:02:06.189 --> 00:02:12.430 the ground up and thirteen years later we're one of the most respected brands in 33 00:02:12.629 --> 00:02:15.939 self training. We provide consulting, advisory services, E. Learning. We 34 00:02:16.060 --> 00:02:21.620 build the learning programs, we do a massive amount of virtual training in our 35 00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:25.460 studio complex here at seals gravy headquarters, and we've, you know, I 36 00:02:25.659 --> 00:02:30.009 we trained companies and work with companies all over the globe. We're in then, 37 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:34.169 every single continent except for Antarctica, and it's been a it's been a 38 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:37.969 really fun story, but it's it's really a story of I only know how 39 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:40.250 to do two things really well. I can I can handle horses, so 40 00:02:40.409 --> 00:02:44.560 horses have been my hobby since I was a kid, and I can sell 41 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:49.439 stuff and that's about it. So that's what we're doing and we're right now. 42 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.599 We're making this big shift into we've been doing this for a while. 43 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.919 We spend about a half a million dollars last year building up the studio complex. 44 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.710 So we're in the what we call the clubhouse studio right here. This 45 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:01.430 is good for a lot of one to one we've a white board over here, 46 00:03:01.469 --> 00:03:05.629 so we can do a two camera shoot and this and this particular space 47 00:03:06.349 --> 00:03:08.990 we we astually do three cameras because the TV behind bind me becomes a screen. 48 00:03:09.430 --> 00:03:13.659 On the other side of me. There's a production booth in the middle. 49 00:03:13.699 --> 00:03:15.740 On the other side we have our huge studio. So it's our live 50 00:03:15.819 --> 00:03:20.900 production studio. We do stand up live training there on a for camera shoot. 51 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.300 We've got a black magic switcher, we have TV switchers. We're basically 52 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:27.370 running a TV show. On the other side of that we have our green 53 00:03:27.409 --> 00:03:30.210 screen studio. We have a forty eight foot green screen in our studio there, 54 00:03:30.569 --> 00:03:32.689 along with a brick wall and a stone wall, and then we have 55 00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:38.810 a full on audio studios. Have Professional Audience Duty Studio with professional production booth 56 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:43.680 and we're in we've a lot of our big clients and we're training people right 57 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.960 now. Truly all over the world where we're people have shown for classes. 58 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:51.080 They're just an all of what we've been able to do to elevate virtual training 59 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.560 from somebody's big head, you know, stuck in a zoom or you know 60 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:59.509 or you know reading reading powerpoint slides to you. We're really putting on a 61 00:03:59.669 --> 00:04:04.830 full on show and it's it's been amazing for us because even in this we're 62 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:08.750 doing this podcast in the middle of kind of a mess right now in terms 63 00:04:08.750 --> 00:04:13.060 of the economy, even in this economy we're growing because we're able to pull 64 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:16.459 in these these companies that still want to teach theirselves people, but they just 65 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:18.699 want to be able to do it in a way that doesn't cost people have 66 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:21.620 to travel or stay in rooms with each other. Yeah, absolutely. I 67 00:04:21.699 --> 00:04:26.329 mean, as we're recording this, you know, in early April two thousand 68 00:04:26.329 --> 00:04:30.050 and twenty, we're in the midst of the covid nineteen pandemic and lots of 69 00:04:30.129 --> 00:04:32.970 folks are trying to figure out how do we train people, salespeople and another 70 00:04:33.050 --> 00:04:36.649 functional roles, remotely. I love what you guys are doing because it's kind 71 00:04:36.689 --> 00:04:40.079 of set you up to be able to do that and do it well. 72 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:45.360 We just had a previous episode with Chad Sanderson with value selling associates, going 73 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.839 through some of the differences that you have to accommodate for in a virtual training 74 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:53.750 environment. You have to think about the presentation, the pacing, how long 75 00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:57.629 you can keep people engage, that sort of stuff, and anybody who follows 76 00:04:57.670 --> 00:05:00.790 this show or others from sweetfish know that we are big fans of setting yourself 77 00:05:00.790 --> 00:05:04.430 up for batch content creation and being able to use that in a variety of 78 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:08.300 ways, which everything that you guys have invested in helps you guys in the 79 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:12.339 training side as well as the content side, for sure. So definitely like 80 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:15.699 minded. I didn't know about the horses. To Jeb. I actually grew 81 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:18.220 up in a family that train quarter horses. So conversation for another day. 82 00:05:18.220 --> 00:05:24.410 Let's get into negotiation and, as I mentioned earlier, your new book inked 83 00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:29.170 is not just about succeeding it negotiation but, from the onset, approaching it 84 00:05:29.370 --> 00:05:31.610 with more confidence. So I would love to hear from you some of the 85 00:05:31.769 --> 00:05:36.360 common things that you think a road sales people's confidence before they ever get started. 86 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.399 Well, I think one thing is it is that sells people in general 87 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:45.839 don't feel confident with negotiating. One of the reasons for that is that sells 88 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:47.279 people. And this is just keeping it one hundred because a lot of people 89 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.230 don't tell you this, but you go into most deals with your with your 90 00:05:51.269 --> 00:05:56.829 customers or prospects, and they have a much higher or much stronger power position 91 00:05:56.910 --> 00:05:59.470 than you do, and the reason that they do is that they typically have 92 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:02.629 more alternatives, including doing nothing, which is one of the top reasons why 93 00:06:02.750 --> 00:06:06.779 deals go cold. And and there's a lot of competitors that are coming in 94 00:06:06.939 --> 00:06:12.139 and they typically have more information than you do, or at least they're able 95 00:06:12.139 --> 00:06:14.379 to bluff. You end up believing they have more information than you do. 96 00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:19.610 So you know, if you imagine that you're going into any sort of conflict, 97 00:06:19.730 --> 00:06:24.569 and all negotiation is is conflict, is controlled conflict, but you're going 98 00:06:24.649 --> 00:06:29.410 into a conflict and you know from the get go in your heart that your 99 00:06:29.490 --> 00:06:32.519 position is weak, then you're typically going to walk through the door with a 100 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.920 lack of confidence. So that'd be number one. Number two is it that 101 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:40.680 most buyers that you deal with, especially if you're dealing with higher level buyers, 102 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:44.600 they've had way more training than you have a negotiation. Good buyers are 103 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.310 sent to negotiation school. They go to learn how to deal with salespeople and 104 00:06:47.509 --> 00:06:51.750 to win with salespeople and a lot of companies they'll have a person that you're 105 00:06:51.790 --> 00:06:55.829 dealing with, this is this is the stakeholder that you're working with, and 106 00:06:55.910 --> 00:06:59.990 then they'll switch that person out for someone who's a professional buyer, typically procurement 107 00:07:00.069 --> 00:07:01.740 or purchasing, and now you're dealing with a person that you don't have a 108 00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:06.300 relationship with and if your salesperson, then you count on charisma and relationships. 109 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:09.860 All of a sudden they take that away from you and put you in a 110 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:15.139 in a different position. That doesn't always happen and and there are ways of 111 00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:17.329 getting around that, but that can happen as well. So you're dealing with 112 00:07:17.449 --> 00:07:23.490 someone who is trained to professionally negotiate and you haven't been trained. And that's 113 00:07:23.529 --> 00:07:26.769 the other reason. Most companies don't teach their sells people out of negotiate. 114 00:07:27.329 --> 00:07:30.319 If they do, like they'll send them to you know, like in the 115 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.199 airplane magazine there's always a negotiating company and the airplane magazine You have big got 116 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:38.360 negotiating somewhere. They'll send you to one of those. So they'll bring somebody 117 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:41.720 in. Well, the people that teach those those seminars are good. They 118 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.509 know how to negotiat. There's nothing wrong with the thing that they're teaching. 119 00:07:44.550 --> 00:07:48.110 Then the lessons are great, except for two things. One is most of 120 00:07:48.189 --> 00:07:51.550 those seminars, the way that they teach you how to negotiate is they teach 121 00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:56.029 you to negotiate with other people. But that's not what seals people are doing. 122 00:07:56.110 --> 00:07:59.180 Like you're not negotiating for yourself. You're not you're not buying something, 123 00:07:59.459 --> 00:08:03.620 you're selling something. So so it's not applicable to you. But that's how 124 00:08:03.620 --> 00:08:05.699 they teach you in the second thing that they do is they don't teach you 125 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:11.620 that negotiating is integrated into the cells process, not separate from it. So 126 00:08:11.899 --> 00:08:16.569 you're typically learning to negotiate with someone who is never actually sold anything. So 127 00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:20.970 that person doesn't really understand your sales process and how negotiation works inside the cells 128 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:24.329 process. And I'll come back to that in just a moment. And then 129 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:30.759 the last reason why seals people lack confis a negotiation is because they suck at 130 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.039 the self process. So in other words, they're skipping steps in the cells 131 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.519 process. So they have no ammunition. So they get to the end and 132 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.960 the person just says, well, you need to lower your price. But 133 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.309 because they didn't really get deep, ask questions, understand what's happening, they 134 00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:46.669 didn't do good discovery, they didn't build a good business case, they simply 135 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:48.870 have no ammunition. So they just think, well, I got to lower 136 00:08:48.909 --> 00:08:52.190 my price, and then the person says and your competitors are lower price than 137 00:08:52.190 --> 00:08:56.620 you are right. So that's the problem that they run into. So if 138 00:08:56.659 --> 00:09:01.019 you, if you know, you look at that as a whole, right, 139 00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:05.019 then you go back to okay, well, negotiation is part of the 140 00:09:05.139 --> 00:09:09.129 cells process, not separate from it, and if you want to gain confidence, 141 00:09:09.850 --> 00:09:13.730 you have to be able to improve your power position, knowing that the 142 00:09:15.049 --> 00:09:18.250 person you're selling to almost always starts off at a much better power position than 143 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.009 you do, a much higher level than you have. You have to use 144 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:26.519 the seals process to change the game so that when you get to the negotiation 145 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.600 stage, which is at the end, you're going to negotiate the end. 146 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.960 You're negotiated the beginning. You're negotiating with yourself, trust me on that. 147 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.960 Yeah, but you're negotiate in right. So you have to be able to 148 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.750 run the cells process to get there, and that's one of the problems that 149 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:43.590 most negotiation books, there's tons of them, they're brilliant, they're so good 150 00:09:43.629 --> 00:09:48.149 out there negotiating seminars that companies put their cells people through one and done. 151 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:54.220 They don't teach you that negotiation in sales cannot be separated from the cells process. 152 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:56.100 I love what you're saying. Their Jib one of the things that you 153 00:09:56.220 --> 00:10:01.539 mentioned that it all goes back to discovery and that is part of the negotiation 154 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.340 process. You know, I interviewed Chris boss so if you a former FBI 155 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:09.730 hostage negotiator, his book never split the difference. If you want to check 156 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:11.889 out those, check out episode one thousand and nine and one thousand and ten 157 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.090 on Bob Growth. Something he said that kind of triggered in my mind that 158 00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:20.639 you said there is it's about discovery. The more that you understand and the 159 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.799 more that you know about the actual position of your buyer, the realities that 160 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:30.360 they're dealing with, as well as their emotional state in those emotional triggers, 161 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.879 then the more power that you have it in the in that power position. 162 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:39.230 So you talked about lack of power, position, lack of training and negotiating 163 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:43.029 with someone that you don't have a relationship with. One or all three of 164 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:45.990 those I'd like for you to dig into a little bit, Jeb. You 165 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:48.629 know that's kind of the problem. How do we address that, either from 166 00:10:48.629 --> 00:10:52.820 a mindset or a tactical shift? So you mentioned Chris. Chris, I 167 00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:56.980 think you never split the difference. A brilliant book, also wonderful read. 168 00:10:56.340 --> 00:11:00.659 I've read it twice. I I really dug it. One of the reasons 169 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:05.049 I wrote ink was because of that book and other books that just they just 170 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:09.169 don't give you meat for what it needs to be a self person. Make 171 00:11:09.169 --> 00:11:11.929 you feel good, but then I'll actually teach you what to do as a 172 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:15.289 salesperson. So let's just take all three of those things and we'll drop it 173 00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:20.519 into a real basic and basic frame. So that is a frame called MLP, 174 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:26.759 mlp strategy. It's motivation, leverage and power. So so let's just 175 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.240 think about cells and selling. There's a self process. The cells process begins 176 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.950 with qualifying the right opportunities and targeting those opportunities, because if you're targeting the 177 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.350 right opportunities, then you're going to be in a better power position because you're 178 00:11:39.350 --> 00:11:43.070 going to be in the right places, businesses that need you, versus trying 179 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:45.710 to get businesses that don't really need you to buy your stuff. If you're 180 00:11:45.710 --> 00:11:48.860 doing that, you're in a much weaker position. Man, I wish I 181 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:52.500 learned that my first two years of sales. I remember I hit year two 182 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:54.940 and I was like, hold on, I'm barking up the wrong trees here. 183 00:11:56.379 --> 00:12:00.419 Then you what you're you're exactly right. So then you're just like they're, 184 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:01.850 trying to use price to get them to buy something they don't even really 185 00:12:01.889 --> 00:12:05.450 need. The second thing is is your initial, you know, conversation with 186 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:09.210 them, then advancing into discovery. Then how many steps do you need? 187 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:13.409 And discovery and then, you know, all the way through, through to 188 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:18.159 to negotiating. So the number one thing for a salesperson, if you think 189 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.279 about this, is I have to get the people that I'm selling to to 190 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.399 want to buy from me. In other words, there's five questions that they're 191 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:28.720 asking of you. They want to know, do I like you? So 192 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.389 are you somebody that's likable? And that's something that the human brain asked of 193 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:35.830 every single person we meet. It's not everything, but do I like you? 194 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:39.909 Do you listen to me? And the easiest way to be likable as 195 00:12:39.950 --> 00:12:41.269 a listen to other people. Do you make me feel important? You make 196 00:12:41.309 --> 00:12:46.500 me feel significant, the most insatiable human need. Do you get me in 197 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.220 my problem so you will understand my problems? You understand me, you speak 198 00:12:50.259 --> 00:12:52.460 my language, and do I trust and believe you? Along the way the 199 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:58.850 sales process, we're basically engineering the relationship through the cells process and we're asked 200 00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:03.809 answer, asking are answering those five questions for the buyer. Do I like 201 00:13:03.929 --> 00:13:05.850 you? Do you listen to me? Do you make me feel important? 202 00:13:05.929 --> 00:13:07.330 You get me in my problems? What trust and believe you? Now, 203 00:13:07.370 --> 00:13:11.769 if you're in big accounts or typically multiple stakeholders, and you want to work 204 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:15.200 with each of those stakeholders to get them motivated to do business with you. 205 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:18.519 So one of my favorite things that come out of a buyer's mouth is, 206 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.039 Jeb, I really want to do business with you. But because when they 207 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.799 say that, I know that they have, they have chosen me as there 208 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.950 as their vendor of choice. That selected me as their vendor of choice and 209 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:33.149 I never negotiating to that point. So they basically said, I am motivated 210 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:37.789 do business with you. So when you when you think about motivation, motivation 211 00:13:37.029 --> 00:13:43.779 is individual, it is nonlinear, it is emotional and what you want is 212 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:46.940 you want to get the stakeholders to be motivated to do business with you, 213 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.700 because the more motivated they are and and and their desire to do business with 214 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:56.009 you, the less power they have at the negotiation table. That makes sense. 215 00:13:56.730 --> 00:14:00.730 Now, power is derived from alternatives. So the more alternatives I have, 216 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:03.049 the more power I have. So if I'm a buyer and I have 217 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:05.730 the I have the alternative to do nothing. I don't need to do anything. 218 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:09.080 I've got a lot of power. If I have the alternative to do 219 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.279 it on my own, to do it in house, I have a lot 220 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.279 of power. If there are four of your competitors that are also giving me 221 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.279 proposals, I have a lot of power. So your role in the sales 222 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.759 process, this is the logic side, not the emotional side, is to 223 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:28.669 build an unassatable business case that that reduces the number of perceived Bible alternatives. 224 00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:33.149 Now, Bible alternatives are at the enterprise level, so that's the whole organization, 225 00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:37.580 whereas motivation is that the individual level. So the more motivated people are 226 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:41.899 to do business with you, the less Bible the alternatives that they have seem 227 00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:46.539 right. So so you start taking those away. But as you start going 228 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.340 through the sales process, if you're doing deep discovery and let their say, 229 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:52.090 well, we know, we could just do nothing, but you discover if 230 00:14:52.129 --> 00:14:56.169 they do nothing that it's going to cause these things to happen to the business. 231 00:14:56.370 --> 00:14:58.850 There's going to be a deep implication if you see those thingings. So 232 00:15:00.129 --> 00:15:03.970 as you start going through this. You know this, this process of selling, 233 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:09.720 you're doing two things. Increase their motivation to do business with me and 234 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.039 then use the questions I have in discovery, use my presentation skills, use 235 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:18.440 my business case to reduce other alternatives to doing business with me. And I 236 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.110 need to do both of those things at the same time. Now here's the 237 00:15:22.269 --> 00:15:28.590 problem. We know that the self person walking into the situation walks in at 238 00:15:28.870 --> 00:15:31.909 at a weaker position than their buyer because their buyer always, almost always, 239 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:37.019 has more alternatives in the seller does. So if you're in the weaker position, 240 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.820 what you need to do in order to engineer the process so that you 241 00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:46.379 can increase motivation and decrease the number of Bible alternatives, you need to change 242 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.409 the buyers behavior. You need leverage, and that's what leverage is. Leverage 243 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.330 is like currency. So, for example, one piece of leverage that almost 244 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:58.169 every salesperson has is their proposal. So if you go through the process, 245 00:15:58.649 --> 00:16:02.049 then you can hold a proposal to last and you can get your buyer to 246 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:04.000 show up, you can get your buyer to bring people into the room, 247 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.519 you can get your buyer to change their behavior because they want to get your 248 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:12.000 proposal you're pricing your information, but also your attention, the attention that I 249 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.320 give people. That is also leverage. So what I want to do, 250 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.269 is a salesperson, because I'm in the weaker position, is I want to 251 00:16:18.350 --> 00:16:22.990 hold onto my leverage like its currency, like it's gold, and you never, 252 00:16:22.029 --> 00:16:26.269 ever, ever, ever, give leverage away for free. If I 253 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:29.429 give leverage, if I give you something, then I get something back. 254 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:32.590 Now, most of the time we think about leverage as something that we're doing 255 00:16:32.669 --> 00:16:36.940 at the negotiation table. When I say table, that's figurative because these days 256 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.500 we're negotiating on text messages and an email, on the phone, on video 257 00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:42.500 calls, for the table is in the cloud, essentially. But when we 258 00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:45.139 start thinking about it, we always think about the given take, like, 259 00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:48.649 if you want this, then I'll give you this, and that is true. 260 00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:52.289 We want to have leverage. This is called a give take playlist inside 261 00:16:52.450 --> 00:16:56.970 of the negotiation that we run. But the leverage that we use in MLP 262 00:16:57.129 --> 00:17:02.200 strategy, this is basically the chess board of sales, is leverage that we 263 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.039 use to change the buyers behavior. And let me give you a really good 264 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:07.359 example of that. If you've been in sales for any period of time you 265 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:12.240 have heard a buy or say well, why don't you just give us your 266 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:15.190 prices and then we'll take a look at them and then, if we really 267 00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:18.029 like it, then we'll call you back in and then we'll let you meet 268 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:22.670 with us. I think every sales person is probably heard that from one time 269 00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:25.829 or the other. Go ahead and send over that proposal. Yeah, so 270 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:29.230 I would love for you to walk through some examples of how to deal with 271 00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:32.819 that, because I'm with you. I've been in sales for twelve years and 272 00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:37.180 no, most listeners here are experience sales pros. They've gotten something to almost 273 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:41.099 exactly that exact line. Everybody and and you need to her buyers like you'll 274 00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:44.609 get into a situation on big accounts. So they'll go you have think before 275 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:47.529 we can move to this step, we need to see your prices. So 276 00:17:47.809 --> 00:17:51.690 the problem with this is is that if you do that, if you give 277 00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:56.210 away your leverage, is your prices, you don't have the opportunity to go 278 00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.920 build a relationship, to get them know the stakeholders in order to increase their 279 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.039 motivation and do business with you. Nor do you have the opportunity to discovery 280 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:10.079 and build a business case which decreases their viable alternatives. So what you have 281 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:15.029 to do in that situation to change their behavior is to reshape their buying process 282 00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:18.470 to fit your cells process. So I want you to stop for a second 283 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:22.309 as I explain this and think about three processes. There's a sales process. 284 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:25.990 That's your linear process, that typically your company is laid out and said this 285 00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:30.019 is how we go to market. There's a buying process inside of organizations. 286 00:18:30.099 --> 00:18:33.019 That can be either a formal process or an informal process. So with a 287 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.460 small business like mine, the informal processes. Yeah, I mean that sounds 288 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:38.700 really good, but you got to go talk to Kerry carries the CFO, 289 00:18:40.059 --> 00:18:41.609 right, and if cary says yes, then will buy it in a formal, 290 00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:45.089 you know, business organization, a big business organization it might be. 291 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:48.009 Will we have to do all of these things before we can pull the trigger 292 00:18:48.049 --> 00:18:52.690 and buy from you regardless? There's a buying process, the self process, 293 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:56.240 buying process typically linear, and then there's the decision process and the decision processes. 294 00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.440 The five questions. Do I like you? Do you listen to me, 295 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:00.880 you make me feel important, you get me in my problems. What 296 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.880 trust and believe you, and those are being asked and answered by the individual 297 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:11.069 stakeholders. Completely nonlinear. Makes Sense. That's where you get motivation. But 298 00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:12.990 in the situation where the person says hey, look, you send me your 299 00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:17.390 proposal, then I'll talk to you, what they're saying is I want you 300 00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:21.150 to conform to my body in process, my buying process, is I look 301 00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:22.829 at all the prices first and then I'm going to go to the companies and 302 00:19:22.829 --> 00:19:26.180 I'm going to say, because if you've ever sent your proposal and you know 303 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:27.940 what comes next, they call you back and say, well, your prices 304 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:32.140 are pretty high. Why don't you sharpen your pencil? And they start playing 305 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:36.579 you against everybody else. You think you're negotiating, but you are not negotiating, 306 00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:41.450 you are negotiating with yourself. So so in that situation, what you 307 00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:44.970 have to do is use leverage, and the way that you use leverages just 308 00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:49.049 like this. You say, while that sounds really interesting and I would love 309 00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:52.809 to do that. In fact, most of my customer or most of my 310 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.400 competitors will do that, but that's just not how we work as a company. 311 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.079 You See, most of my competitors, they just have a box and 312 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:02.359 everybody has to fit in the same box, but what we do as an 313 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.559 organization is we build the box around you, because we believe that each of 314 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:10.309 our customers are unique. So what I need to do is spend a few 315 00:20:10.349 --> 00:20:11.910 minutes getting to know you a little bit better, asking a few questions, 316 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:15.869 and then I can craft a proposal that would be a blueprint for how we 317 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:19.789 would serve your organization and that will give you the information that you need to 318 00:20:19.910 --> 00:20:25.259 make an informed decision for your organization. How about we get together a Thursday 319 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:29.819 at too, and when you do that, you're going to get one of 320 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.460 three responses. One response is going to be sure, let's get together, 321 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:37.410 because what you said made sense to them and it did right. It said 322 00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:41.009 you're important, you're different and I'm willing to listen to you, and let's 323 00:20:41.009 --> 00:20:44.130 take some time to do that. I'm holding my leverage. The thing that 324 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:48.329 they want is my prices in reserve and I'm trading that for the meeting you 325 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:51.960 may get a well, look, thirsti's that going to really work for me? 326 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:53.039 Is there any other way we can do this, because we need to 327 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:57.319 move really fast. Now they're negotiating how you're going to do discovery, and 328 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.960 the third one is going to be listen, I don't have any time for 329 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.880 that. If you want in and you need to send me your prices. 330 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.150 If you get number three, just throw it away and move on. Just 331 00:21:06.269 --> 00:21:07.309 go to the next one, because you're never going to close that business. 332 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:11.950 It's a low probability and the only self people who chase that business are the 333 00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:17.069 people who have a very thin pipeline and they're just desperate. If you get 334 00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:19.099 one of the other two, you're in the game because suddenly what you did 335 00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:23.259 was you use your leverage, my information, to get them to bend their 336 00:21:23.299 --> 00:21:26.700 behavior back to you, which suddenly puts you in control, and now you 337 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:32.339 can go back and engineer the cells process in a linear way that allows you 338 00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:34.410 to get to the outcome that you desire, which is a highly motivated group 339 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:41.410 of stakeholders with a business case that eliminates our neutralized has perceived alternatives, which 340 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:42.930 put you in a position in a lot of cases to not even have to 341 00:21:44.049 --> 00:21:47.920 negotiate. And that's the beautiful thing about doing this process, or thinking about 342 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:52.400 the world through this motivation, leverage and power, you know, process or 343 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.079 game board, is that if you do all these things the right way, 344 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:59.640 and most cases you really never have to negotiate. I would say that you 345 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:02.589 even in in the deals that we're signing right now, and some of our 346 00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:06.390 deals are, you know, our seven figure deals that some of our larger 347 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:11.750 clients are bringing to us for training and virtual training for their global sales forces 348 00:22:11.910 --> 00:22:14.549 who are all sitting at home right now. Some of these deals are really 349 00:22:14.589 --> 00:22:18.059 big. We're not negotiating a lot of deals. We're not really spending a 350 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:21.900 lot of time on pricing. We're negotiating timing and roll out and some things 351 00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:26.220 like that because we have a high level of motivation to work with us and 352 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:30.930 we've built a business case that there aren't any other alternatives to doing this that 353 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.609 are as good or as viable as what we do. So you have to 354 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:37.609 start thinking to yourself every time you're in a situation where you know it. 355 00:22:37.769 --> 00:22:41.650 Let's say, for example, you need to do a final proposal and you 356 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:44.400 want to do a final presentation. The person says, will email that to 357 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.519 me. That's a very, very bad strategy. You email your proposal, 358 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.319 you're done. So you have the proposal. You say, listen, I 359 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.599 prefer, if it's okay with you, to get everybody on the phone together, 360 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.710 everybody on a video called together. Are Everybody in the same room together, 361 00:23:00.190 --> 00:23:03.309 and that way I'm able to go through it with you and answer those 362 00:23:03.349 --> 00:23:06.390 questions. Why don't we get together? So you just hold that back and 363 00:23:06.430 --> 00:23:11.950 say I'm not willing to email that to you. Hey, everybody logan with 364 00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:15.980 sweet fish here. You probably already know that we think you should start a 365 00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:18.420 podcast, if you haven't already. But what if you have and you're asking 366 00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:23.019 these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted revenue this year? 367 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:29.329 How's our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? If you can't answer these 368 00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:33.490 questions, you're actually not alone. This is why I cast it created the 369 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:38.410 very first content marketing platform made specifically for be Tobe podcasting. Now you can 370 00:23:38.529 --> 00:23:45.640 more easily search and share your audio content while getting greater visibility into the impact 371 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.839 of your podcast. The marketing teams at drift terminus and here at sweet fish 372 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.200 have started using casted to get more value out of our podcasts, and you 373 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:59.789 probably can to. You can check out the product in action and casted dot 374 00:23:59.869 --> 00:24:07.990 US growth. That's sea St Ed dot US growth. All right, let's 375 00:24:07.990 --> 00:24:12.500 get back to the show. Jeb, I love what you've been saying here 376 00:24:12.859 --> 00:24:17.420 in in looking at what do you give and what do you get throughout the 377 00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:21.700 process, not just once you get handed off to procurement and the official negotiating 378 00:24:22.460 --> 00:24:25.569 begins, and I like that line. I if people miss that you want 379 00:24:25.609 --> 00:24:29.009 to hit the back button a few times when you were talking about not sending 380 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:33.250 that proposal or just doing the demo to one person a blueprint for how we 381 00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:37.009 serve your organization. I just really like the phrasing. They're one of the 382 00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:41.519 things that I feel like I've evolved as a salesperson to realize is that when 383 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.279 someone asks for something one you've got to realize, hey, I don't just 384 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.920 have to give that. That is not the only thing. Goes back to, 385 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.319 you know what you said before. It's about discovery and further questions to 386 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.869 realize what is the the motivation behind that question, and so what I've found 387 00:24:56.990 --> 00:25:00.630 is that there are different levers that you can use or creative ways to find 388 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:04.190 out what is it that is valuable to them. That might not cost me 389 00:25:04.269 --> 00:25:10.019 as much and therefore have been able to negotiate, but really to me it 390 00:25:10.099 --> 00:25:14.220 feels like I'm just kind of building a custom house for someone and they're happy. 391 00:25:14.299 --> 00:25:17.740 I just want to into that a little bit for one more tactical piece 392 00:25:17.779 --> 00:25:19.980 of advice on negotiating for folks before we wrap. I love that. So 393 00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:23.089 that's part of the discovery we if you don't do great discovery, and Chris 394 00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:26.690 is right about that, you got no negotiation. So one of the things 395 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:32.049 that you're doing while you're doing discovery is you're basically building a list of each 396 00:25:32.089 --> 00:25:36.359 stakeholders negotiation points, like what's important to them. Just build we just call 397 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.039 the stakeholder list, right, so you just build their lists out so you 398 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.640 find it all the things are important to you for let's say, for example, 399 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:42.920 that you have a product that you sell or a service you sell, 400 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:47.279 let's say a software, and you sell the software and then you have a 401 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:51.630 training program that you can give to the users of the software to get them 402 00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.509 ramped up a little bit faster, and you find out from the stakeholder that 403 00:25:56.029 --> 00:26:00.069 like fast ramp up is really important to them. They've installed staff software programs 404 00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.299 before and nobody used it and they felt like they lost their money. So 405 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:08.059 you know that. So so you also start building an inventory of all the 406 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:12.140 things that you have that you can use as leverage when you're negotiating. One 407 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:15.539 of those things. Maybe I can give away the free training, because it's 408 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.730 really cost me anything to give it. I could also I could also sell 409 00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:22.369 it to them. So let's say that I'm having this conversation with them and 410 00:26:22.849 --> 00:26:26.490 I built I've got their list and I've got an entire inventory of things that 411 00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.329 I can give and take, and you always have things like that. So 412 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:33.640 I love what you said, because what happens is you're able to then take 413 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.000 something that is of low value to you, like free training videos, and 414 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.240 of high value to your customer, and you can trade that for them giving 415 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.230 back a you know, of asking for less of a discount. So what 416 00:26:47.390 --> 00:26:48.589 you do is that. The other thing that you want to do, especially 417 00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:53.029 when you work on enterprise deals, is as you're building the deal through discovery, 418 00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:56.549 you're building it together. So it's a consensus process. They say, 419 00:26:56.589 --> 00:27:00.109 well, we want this and we want this and these are the measurable outcomes 420 00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.500 that we want. They also have emotional outcomes that they want as well, 421 00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:06.420 but we want all of these things. So as they build those things, 422 00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:08.019 when you go onto your final proposal, you just sit down and say, 423 00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:11.140 listen, you told me that you wanted this, this, this, this 424 00:27:11.299 --> 00:27:12.180 and this. Then I get all that right and they go yeah, we 425 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:15.730 got all right, super here's my proposal. But proposal addresses this, this, 426 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:19.250 this and this. So then when you're sitting down having a conversation with 427 00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:23.250 them and I'll give you one last tip for procurement, and they're they're saying, 428 00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:26.049 well, you know, we know, we need a lower price or 429 00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:30.039 we need this. What you do is you either can take away something is 430 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.880 important to them. You. So I can give you a little price, 431 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.000 but I'm going to have to take back the free training. I would have 432 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:37.720 to charge you for the training or won't be able to do that for free, 433 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.880 or I'll have to take back the installation. You can do the installation 434 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.589 yourself. So I can give you the price, but I'm taking back something 435 00:27:44.630 --> 00:27:47.789 that you would typically give anyway. But you just take it away. And 436 00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.589 when you take things away, people want them and the whole idea of give 437 00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:52.910 and take is to get them to the point where they don't want to give 438 00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:56.309 anymore, so then they'll align on an agreement. If it's a if it's 439 00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.819 an enterprise deal and you're dealing with a lot of stakeholders, you'll probably have 440 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.819 a professional purchaser in the room, what you start doing is you start taking 441 00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:07.259 away the things that they put into the deal. So this is all the 442 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:11.500 this is the art of discovery. You know, tell me what's most important 443 00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:14.049 to you. Will Boom Bibi Boomba, boom and free. You know, 444 00:28:14.170 --> 00:28:18.009 every stakeholder has a success criteria, the things that they want, and the 445 00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:21.890 organization has a criteria for evaluating their vendors. Boom, boom, boom. 446 00:28:22.250 --> 00:28:25.809 So you just start unwinding the deal. You're not, you're not like taking 447 00:28:25.849 --> 00:28:27.119 anything away that you gave them. Just take the stuff out of the deal. 448 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.240 Look, I can do this, but we won't be able to do 449 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.240 these things. Well, no, we want those things. We can't do 450 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.680 it without that. So if you if you're if you're leveraging those things, 451 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.160 you win. We called that in the book a gift tape playlist. So 452 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.190 before you go in, you've got a list of the things that you're willing 453 00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:45.789 to give and the things that you're going to take away for giving those things. 454 00:28:45.990 --> 00:28:49.630 I typically have two or three. So I'm thinking about different scenarios, 455 00:28:51.069 --> 00:28:52.950 but I've already know what I have, so I don't have to think about 456 00:28:52.950 --> 00:28:56.900 it now. My tip for procurement so what happens in procurement is so the 457 00:28:56.980 --> 00:29:00.140 stakeholder group says, all, we really like this, we want to do 458 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:02.420 business with you. Now you got to go talk to procurement. Happens all 459 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.099 the time. And as soon as you talk to Pcurement, this is what 460 00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:07.619 happens these days. I'll even talk to anymore. They send you an email 461 00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:10.170 and the email says, wow, this is really good, we really like 462 00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:11.930 this. But you know, there's a lot of vendors out there. They 463 00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:14.130 can do the same thing as you, and we're really going to need you 464 00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:17.250 to sharpen your pencil now. You already made the deal of the stakeholder group. 465 00:29:17.490 --> 00:29:19.369 Now becureman is trying to get you to lower your prices, and the 466 00:29:19.450 --> 00:29:22.450 way that you handle that as you say to the procurement group, Hey, 467 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:27.799 we've given you our very best price, but we can probably get you to 468 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:33.039 your budget level if we take some things out of the deal. What we 469 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.559 should probably do is get everybody back together in the room and figure out what 470 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.589 we can take out and order to meet your budget. And when you do 471 00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:45.109 that, if you've got a stakeholder group that is highly motivated to do business 472 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:48.430 with you, that perceives that they don't have any other alternatives. There's already 473 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:52.500 agreed with you. Your proposal has addressed their issues. You've given them a 474 00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:56.619 blue print. And procuremit gets in, it starts messing the deal up. 475 00:29:56.940 --> 00:30:00.900 If you've got good stakeholders, don't go tell picurement back off. We want 476 00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:03.420 to do business with these folks absolutely. And that's where it goes back to 477 00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:07.970 the three parts of the framework that you talked about earlier motivation, leverage and 478 00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:11.930 power. If you've done a good job on the motivation front, then you 479 00:30:12.009 --> 00:30:15.410 don't completely lose that when you get handed off, which is one of those 480 00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:19.009 challenges right back at the top of the episode that you mentioned, that you're 481 00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:23.960 in that weak power position because your relationship and the motivation that you've built up 482 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.920 to buy from you is totally lost. But if you use that small strategy 483 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:33.559 to to look them back in and bring back in your advocates, then you've 484 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.349 got more power, you've got more leverage, both of those things. I 485 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:40.190 love what you said as well, just to kind of put a fine point 486 00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:42.309 on it. For folks going into every deal, you need to have that 487 00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:47.430 list. What is your inventory of things? And maybe that is you know, 488 00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:49.700 maybe that's volume, maybe that's length of commitment, maybe it's training, 489 00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:55.740 installation, costs, access to different content that's valuable but isn't going to cost 490 00:30:55.779 --> 00:31:00.140 you things in order to give away so that you can start to work on 491 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.289 negotiation more from a consensus with the other side of the quote unquote, table. 492 00:31:04.289 --> 00:31:07.609 I love what you said that the table is in the cloud today. 493 00:31:07.089 --> 00:31:11.289 So many great quotable moments, Jeb. If anybody listening to this out wants 494 00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:15.009 to find a copy of the book, reach out to you or stay connected 495 00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:18.920 with all of the content that you guys are putting out. What's the best 496 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.880 way for folks to stay connected with you guys? Absolutely, if you want 497 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:22.799 to get the book, the best places to go to barns and noble, 498 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.559 Amazon, wherever books are sold. It is the Ebook, it's it's a 499 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.559 hardcover. Audio book will be out very shortly. If you want to autograph 500 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.269 copy of ink or any of my boasts, is going to sells gravycom and 501 00:31:33.349 --> 00:31:37.190 pressed store or shop and the top of the menu, and then we have 502 00:31:37.269 --> 00:31:41.150 autograph books. We can send those to you and the shipping is free on 503 00:31:41.230 --> 00:31:44.589 those. And if you want to stay in touch with me, sells gravycom 504 00:31:44.789 --> 00:31:48.819 or my personal website, Jobcom, and I'm on twitter at seals gravy, 505 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:53.339 instagram at seals gravy, Youtube I'm Ford sells gravy, facebook at sells gravy 506 00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:56.019 and course, you just type my name in on Linkedin and you'll be able 507 00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:59.619 to find me and stay in touch with me, easy enough. JEBB, 508 00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:02.130 this has been a great conversation, some very tactical stuff that we always try 509 00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:06.130 and do here on the BB sales show. So thank you for bringing the 510 00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:08.769 fire today. Really appreciate you being a guest on the show. Thank you 511 00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:15.480 so much. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, 512 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.359 but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're 513 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.200 trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. 514 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:27.240 If you leave a review for be to be growth and apple podcasts and email 515 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.509 me a screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send 516 00:32:30.549 --> 00:32:34.869 you a signed copy of my new book, content based networking, how to 517 00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:37.470 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, you 518 00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:39.269 get a free book. We both win.