Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media.
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I'm your host for today's episode.
I am very glad to introduce today's
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guest. It is jebb blunt.
He's the CEO over at sales gravy.
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He's an author, keynote speaker,
podcast host himself all around sales acceleration specialist.
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He is the author of several great
sales books, including fanatical prospecting objections
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and others that listeners of the show
will probably know. His new book,
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inked is all about how sales people
can approach negotiation with more confidence. JEBB,
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welcome to the show. Well,
thank you so much for having me
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on. I appreciate that. And
you know, we were just talking about
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how you've got one thirteen hundred episodes
up. So I'm sold. I'm actually
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in all that's so many podcast episodes. I've been podcasting sin I think,
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the original podcaster, and two thousand
and seven. There weren't that many people
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by that. It wasn't even cool. So one thousand three hundred that is
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quite an accomplishment. So I've feeled
to completely honored that you invited me on.
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Yeah, absolutely, you know it
is funny, as we were talking
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about, you know, podcastings going
through this second wave right and you were
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part of that first wave when podcasting
kind of hit and the tech wasn't there
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in our lifestyle wasn't quite the fit
that it is today. So it's cool
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to talk to folks who have been
through both ways, as we've kind of
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seen been at it a long time
here at sweet fish. Well, Jeff,
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for anybody who is new to some
of your content that sort of stuff,
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give us a little bit of background. For anybody WHO's not familiar with
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you, sales, bravy and some
of the content that you're putting out.
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Then we're going to dive into some
negotiation lessons specifically out of your new book,
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inked. Absolutely well, a little
bit of background me. I grew
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up in the trenches of cell so
I've been selling since I was in college
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and I've done pretty much every role
that you can possibly imagine, from frontline
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salesperson all the way to head of
sales running a thousand person cells organization.
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Thirteen years ago, during the great
recession, started seals gravy, which is
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kind of a weird thing, and
I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I
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wanted to start a different kind of
company. So I build cells gravy from
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the ground up and thirteen years later
we're one of the most respected brands in
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self training. We provide consulting,
advisory services, E. Learning. We
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build the learning programs, we do
a massive amount of virtual training in our
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studio complex here at seals gravy headquarters, and we've, you know, I
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we trained companies and work with companies
all over the globe. We're in then,
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every single continent except for Antarctica,
and it's been a it's been a
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really fun story, but it's it's
really a story of I only know how
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to do two things really well.
I can I can handle horses, so
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horses have been my hobby since I
was a kid, and I can sell
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stuff and that's about it. So
that's what we're doing and we're right now.
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We're making this big shift into we've
been doing this for a while.
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We spend about a half a million
dollars last year building up the studio complex.
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So we're in the what we call
the clubhouse studio right here. This
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is good for a lot of one
to one we've a white board over here,
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so we can do a two camera
shoot and this and this particular space
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we we astually do three cameras because
the TV behind bind me becomes a screen.
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On the other side of me.
There's a production booth in the middle.
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On the other side we have our
huge studio. So it's our live
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production studio. We do stand up
live training there on a for camera shoot.
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We've got a black magic switcher,
we have TV switchers. We're basically
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running a TV show. On the
other side of that we have our green
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screen studio. We have a forty
eight foot green screen in our studio there,
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along with a brick wall and a
stone wall, and then we have
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a full on audio studios. Have
Professional Audience Duty Studio with professional production booth
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and we're in we've a lot of
our big clients and we're training people right
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now. Truly all over the world
where we're people have shown for classes.
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They're just an all of what we've
been able to do to elevate virtual training
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from somebody's big head, you know, stuck in a zoom or you know
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or you know reading reading powerpoint slides
to you. We're really putting on a
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full on show and it's it's been
amazing for us because even in this we're
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doing this podcast in the middle of
kind of a mess right now in terms
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of the economy, even in this
economy we're growing because we're able to pull
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in these these companies that still want
to teach theirselves people, but they just
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want to be able to do it
in a way that doesn't cost people have
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to travel or stay in rooms with
each other. Yeah, absolutely. I
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mean, as we're recording this,
you know, in early April two thousand
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and twenty, we're in the midst
of the covid nineteen pandemic and lots of
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folks are trying to figure out how
do we train people, salespeople and another
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functional roles, remotely. I love
what you guys are doing because it's kind
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of set you up to be able
to do that and do it well.
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We just had a previous episode with
Chad Sanderson with value selling associates, going
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through some of the differences that you
have to accommodate for in a virtual training
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environment. You have to think about
the presentation, the pacing, how long
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you can keep people engage, that
sort of stuff, and anybody who follows
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this show or others from sweetfish know
that we are big fans of setting yourself
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up for batch content creation and being
able to use that in a variety of
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ways, which everything that you guys
have invested in helps you guys in the
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training side as well as the content
side, for sure. So definitely like
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minded. I didn't know about the
horses. To Jeb. I actually grew
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up in a family that train quarter
horses. So conversation for another day.
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Let's get into negotiation and, as
I mentioned earlier, your new book inked
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is not just about succeeding it negotiation
but, from the onset, approaching it
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with more confidence. So I would
love to hear from you some of the
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common things that you think a road
sales people's confidence before they ever get started.
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Well, I think one thing is
it is that sells people in general
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don't feel confident with negotiating. One
of the reasons for that is that sells
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people. And this is just keeping
it one hundred because a lot of people
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don't tell you this, but you
go into most deals with your with your
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customers or prospects, and they have
a much higher or much stronger power position
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than you do, and the reason
that they do is that they typically have
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more alternatives, including doing nothing,
which is one of the top reasons why
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deals go cold. And and there's
a lot of competitors that are coming in
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and they typically have more information than
you do, or at least they're able
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to bluff. You end up believing
they have more information than you do.
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So you know, if you imagine
that you're going into any sort of conflict,
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and all negotiation is is conflict,
is controlled conflict, but you're going
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into a conflict and you know from
the get go in your heart that your
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position is weak, then you're typically
going to walk through the door with a
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lack of confidence. So that'd be
number one. Number two is it that
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most buyers that you deal with,
especially if you're dealing with higher level buyers,
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they've had way more training than you
have a negotiation. Good buyers are
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sent to negotiation school. They go
to learn how to deal with salespeople and
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to win with salespeople and a lot
of companies they'll have a person that you're
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dealing with, this is this is
the stakeholder that you're working with, and
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then they'll switch that person out for
someone who's a professional buyer, typically procurement
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or purchasing, and now you're dealing
with a person that you don't have a
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relationship with and if your salesperson,
then you count on charisma and relationships.
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All of a sudden they take that
away from you and put you in a
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in a different position. That doesn't
always happen and and there are ways of
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getting around that, but that can
happen as well. So you're dealing with
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someone who is trained to professionally negotiate
and you haven't been trained. And that's
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the other reason. Most companies don't
teach their sells people out of negotiate.
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If they do, like they'll send
them to you know, like in the
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airplane magazine there's always a negotiating company
and the airplane magazine You have big got
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negotiating somewhere. They'll send you to
one of those. So they'll bring somebody
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in. Well, the people that
teach those those seminars are good. They
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know how to negotiat. There's nothing
wrong with the thing that they're teaching.
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Then the lessons are great, except
for two things. One is most of
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those seminars, the way that they
teach you how to negotiate is they teach
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you to negotiate with other people.
But that's not what seals people are doing.
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Like you're not negotiating for yourself.
You're not you're not buying something,
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you're selling something. So so it's
not applicable to you. But that's how
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they teach you in the second thing
that they do is they don't teach you
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that negotiating is integrated into the cells
process, not separate from it. So
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you're typically learning to negotiate with someone
who is never actually sold anything. So
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that person doesn't really understand your sales
process and how negotiation works inside the cells
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process. And I'll come back to
that in just a moment. And then
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the last reason why seals people lack
confis a negotiation is because they suck at
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the self process. So in other
words, they're skipping steps in the cells
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process. So they have no ammunition. So they get to the end and
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the person just says, well,
you need to lower your price. But
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because they didn't really get deep,
ask questions, understand what's happening, they
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didn't do good discovery, they didn't
build a good business case, they simply
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have no ammunition. So they just
think, well, I got to lower
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my price, and then the person
says and your competitors are lower price than
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you are right. So that's the
problem that they run into. So if
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you, if you know, you
look at that as a whole, right,
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then you go back to okay,
well, negotiation is part of the
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cells process, not separate from it, and if you want to gain confidence,
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you have to be able to improve
your power position, knowing that the
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person you're selling to almost always starts
off at a much better power position than
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you do, a much higher level
than you have. You have to use
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the seals process to change the game
so that when you get to the negotiation
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stage, which is at the end, you're going to negotiate the end.
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You're negotiated the beginning. You're negotiating
with yourself, trust me on that.
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Yeah, but you're negotiate in right. So you have to be able to
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run the cells process to get there, and that's one of the problems that
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most negotiation books, there's tons of
them, they're brilliant, they're so good
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out there negotiating seminars that companies put
their cells people through one and done.
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They don't teach you that negotiation in
sales cannot be separated from the cells process.
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I love what you're saying. Their
Jib one of the things that you
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mentioned that it all goes back to
discovery and that is part of the negotiation
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process. You know, I interviewed
Chris boss so if you a former FBI
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hostage negotiator, his book never split
the difference. If you want to check
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out those, check out episode one
thousand and nine and one thousand and ten
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on Bob Growth. Something he said
that kind of triggered in my mind that
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you said there is it's about discovery. The more that you understand and the
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more that you know about the actual
position of your buyer, the realities that
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they're dealing with, as well as
their emotional state in those emotional triggers,
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then the more power that you have
it in the in that power position.
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So you talked about lack of power, position, lack of training and negotiating
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with someone that you don't have a
relationship with. One or all three of
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those I'd like for you to dig
into a little bit, Jeb. You
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know that's kind of the problem.
How do we address that, either from
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a mindset or a tactical shift?
So you mentioned Chris. Chris, I
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think you never split the difference.
A brilliant book, also wonderful read.
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I've read it twice. I I
really dug it. One of the reasons
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I wrote ink was because of that
book and other books that just they just
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don't give you meat for what it
needs to be a self person. Make
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you feel good, but then I'll
actually teach you what to do as a
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salesperson. So let's just take all
three of those things and we'll drop it
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into a real basic and basic frame. So that is a frame called MLP,
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mlp strategy. It's motivation, leverage
and power. So so let's just
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think about cells and selling. There's
a self process. The cells process begins
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with qualifying the right opportunities and targeting
those opportunities, because if you're targeting the
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right opportunities, then you're going to
be in a better power position because you're
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going to be in the right places, businesses that need you, versus trying
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to get businesses that don't really need
you to buy your stuff. If you're
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doing that, you're in a much
weaker position. Man, I wish I
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learned that my first two years of
sales. I remember I hit year two
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and I was like, hold on, I'm barking up the wrong trees here.
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Then you what you're you're exactly right. So then you're just like they're,
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trying to use price to get them
to buy something they don't even really
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need. The second thing is is
your initial, you know, conversation with
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them, then advancing into discovery.
Then how many steps do you need?
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And discovery and then, you know, all the way through, through to
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to negotiating. So the number one
thing for a salesperson, if you think
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about this, is I have to
get the people that I'm selling to to
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want to buy from me. In
other words, there's five questions that they're
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asking of you. They want to
know, do I like you? So
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are you somebody that's likable? And
that's something that the human brain asked of
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every single person we meet. It's
not everything, but do I like you?
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Do you listen to me? And
the easiest way to be likable as
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a listen to other people. Do
you make me feel important? You make
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me feel significant, the most insatiable
human need. Do you get me in
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my problem so you will understand my
problems? You understand me, you speak
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my language, and do I trust
and believe you? Along the way the
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sales process, we're basically engineering the
relationship through the cells process and we're asked
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answer, asking are answering those five
questions for the buyer. Do I like
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you? Do you listen to me? Do you make me feel important?
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You get me in my problems?
What trust and believe you? Now,
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if you're in big accounts or typically
multiple stakeholders, and you want to work
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with each of those stakeholders to get
them motivated to do business with you.
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So one of my favorite things that
come out of a buyer's mouth is,
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Jeb, I really want to do
business with you. But because when they
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say that, I know that they
have, they have chosen me as there
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as their vendor of choice. That
selected me as their vendor of choice and
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I never negotiating to that point.
So they basically said, I am motivated
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do business with you. So when
you when you think about motivation, motivation
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is individual, it is nonlinear,
it is emotional and what you want is
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you want to get the stakeholders to
be motivated to do business with you,
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because the more motivated they are and
and and their desire to do business with
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you, the less power they have
at the negotiation table. That makes sense.
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Now, power is derived from alternatives. So the more alternatives I have,
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the more power I have. So
if I'm a buyer and I have
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the I have the alternative to do
nothing. I don't need to do anything.
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I've got a lot of power.
If I have the alternative to do
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it on my own, to do
it in house, I have a lot
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of power. If there are four
of your competitors that are also giving me
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proposals, I have a lot of
power. So your role in the sales
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process, this is the logic side, not the emotional side, is to
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build an unassatable business case that that
reduces the number of perceived Bible alternatives.
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Now, Bible alternatives are at the
enterprise level, so that's the whole organization,
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whereas motivation is that the individual level. So the more motivated people are
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to do business with you, the
less Bible the alternatives that they have seem
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right. So so you start taking
those away. But as you start going
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through the sales process, if you're
doing deep discovery and let their say,
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well, we know, we could
just do nothing, but you discover if
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they do nothing that it's going to
cause these things to happen to the business.
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There's going to be a deep implication
if you see those thingings. So
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as you start going through this.
You know this, this process of selling,
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you're doing two things. Increase their
motivation to do business with me and
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then use the questions I have in
discovery, use my presentation skills, use
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my business case to reduce other alternatives
to doing business with me. And I
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need to do both of those things
at the same time. Now here's the
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problem. We know that the self
person walking into the situation walks in at
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at a weaker position than their buyer
because their buyer always, almost always,
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has more alternatives in the seller does. So if you're in the weaker position,
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what you need to do in order
to engineer the process so that you
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can increase motivation and decrease the number
of Bible alternatives, you need to change
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the buyers behavior. You need leverage, and that's what leverage is. Leverage
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is like currency. So, for
example, one piece of leverage that almost
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every salesperson has is their proposal.
So if you go through the process,
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then you can hold a proposal to
last and you can get your buyer to
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show up, you can get your
buyer to bring people into the room,
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you can get your buyer to change
their behavior because they want to get your
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proposal you're pricing your information, but
also your attention, the attention that I
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give people. That is also leverage. So what I want to do,
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is a salesperson, because I'm in
the weaker position, is I want to
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hold onto my leverage like its currency, like it's gold, and you never,
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ever, ever, ever, give
leverage away for free. If I
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give leverage, if I give you
something, then I get something back.
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Now, most of the time we
think about leverage as something that we're doing
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at the negotiation table. When I
say table, that's figurative because these days
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we're negotiating on text messages and an
email, on the phone, on video
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calls, for the table is in
the cloud, essentially. But when we
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start thinking about it, we always
think about the given take, like,
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if you want this, then I'll
give you this, and that is true.
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We want to have leverage. This
is called a give take playlist inside
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of the negotiation that we run.
But the leverage that we use in MLP
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strategy, this is basically the chess
board of sales, is leverage that we
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use to change the buyers behavior.
And let me give you a really good
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example of that. If you've been
in sales for any period of time you
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have heard a buy or say well, why don't you just give us your
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prices and then we'll take a look
at them and then, if we really
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like it, then we'll call you
back in and then we'll let you meet
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with us. I think every sales
person is probably heard that from one time
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or the other. Go ahead and
send over that proposal. Yeah, so
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I would love for you to walk
through some examples of how to deal with
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that, because I'm with you.
I've been in sales for twelve years and
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no, most listeners here are experience
sales pros. They've gotten something to almost
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exactly that exact line. Everybody and
and you need to her buyers like you'll
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get into a situation on big accounts. So they'll go you have think before
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we can move to this step,
we need to see your prices. So
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the problem with this is is that
if you do that, if you give
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away your leverage, is your prices, you don't have the opportunity to go
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build a relationship, to get them
know the stakeholders in order to increase their
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motivation and do business with you.
Nor do you have the opportunity to discovery
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and build a business case which decreases
their viable alternatives. So what you have
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to do in that situation to change
their behavior is to reshape their buying process
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to fit your cells process. So
I want you to stop for a second
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as I explain this and think about
three processes. There's a sales process.
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That's your linear process, that typically
your company is laid out and said this
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is how we go to market.
There's a buying process inside of organizations.
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That can be either a formal process
or an informal process. So with a
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small business like mine, the informal
processes. Yeah, I mean that sounds
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really good, but you got to
go talk to Kerry carries the CFO,
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right, and if cary says yes, then will buy it in a formal,
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you know, business organization, a
big business organization it might be.
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Will we have to do all of
these things before we can pull the trigger
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and buy from you regardless? There's
a buying process, the self process,
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buying process typically linear, and then
there's the decision process and the decision processes.
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The five questions. Do I like
you? Do you listen to me,
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you make me feel important, you
get me in my problems. What
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trust and believe you, and those
are being asked and answered by the individual
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stakeholders. Completely nonlinear. Makes Sense. That's where you get motivation. But
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in the situation where the person says
hey, look, you send me your
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proposal, then I'll talk to you, what they're saying is I want you
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to conform to my body in process, my buying process, is I look
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at all the prices first and then
I'm going to go to the companies and
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I'm going to say, because if
you've ever sent your proposal and you know
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what comes next, they call you
back and say, well, your prices
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are pretty high. Why don't you
sharpen your pencil? And they start playing
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you against everybody else. You think
you're negotiating, but you are not negotiating,
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you are negotiating with yourself. So
so in that situation, what you
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have to do is use leverage,
and the way that you use leverages just
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like this. You say, while
that sounds really interesting and I would love
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to do that. In fact,
most of my customer or most of my
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competitors will do that, but that's
just not how we work as a company.
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You See, most of my competitors, they just have a box and
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everybody has to fit in the same
box, but what we do as an
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organization is we build the box around
you, because we believe that each of
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our customers are unique. So what
I need to do is spend a few
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minutes getting to know you a little
bit better, asking a few questions,
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and then I can craft a proposal
that would be a blueprint for how we
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would serve your organization and that will
give you the information that you need to
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make an informed decision for your organization. How about we get together a Thursday
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at too, and when you do
that, you're going to get one of
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three responses. One response is going
to be sure, let's get together,
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because what you said made sense to
them and it did right. It said
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you're important, you're different and I'm
willing to listen to you, and let's
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take some time to do that.
I'm holding my leverage. The thing that
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they want is my prices in reserve
and I'm trading that for the meeting you
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may get a well, look,
thirsti's that going to really work for me?
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Is there any other way we can
do this, because we need to
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move really fast. Now they're negotiating
how you're going to do discovery, and
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the third one is going to be
listen, I don't have any time for
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that. If you want in and
you need to send me your prices.
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If you get number three, just
throw it away and move on. Just
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go to the next one, because
you're never going to close that business.
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It's a low probability and the only
self people who chase that business are the
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people who have a very thin pipeline
and they're just desperate. If you get
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one of the other two, you're
in the game because suddenly what you did
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was you use your leverage, my
information, to get them to bend their
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behavior back to you, which suddenly
puts you in control, and now you
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can go back and engineer the cells
process in a linear way that allows you
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to get to the outcome that you
desire, which is a highly motivated group
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of stakeholders with a business case that
eliminates our neutralized has perceived alternatives, which
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put you in a position in a
lot of cases to not even have to
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negotiate. And that's the beautiful thing
about doing this process, or thinking about
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the world through this motivation, leverage
and power, you know, process or
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game board, is that if you
do all these things the right way,
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and most cases you really never have
to negotiate. I would say that you
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even in in the deals that we're
signing right now, and some of our
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deals are, you know, our
seven figure deals that some of our larger
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clients are bringing to us for training
and virtual training for their global sales forces
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who are all sitting at home right
now. Some of these deals are really
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big. We're not negotiating a lot
of deals. We're not really spending a
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lot of time on pricing. We're
negotiating timing and roll out and some things
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like that because we have a high
level of motivation to work with us and
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we've built a business case that there
aren't any other alternatives to doing this that
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are as good or as viable as
what we do. So you have to
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start thinking to yourself every time you're
in a situation where you know it.
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Let's say, for example, you
need to do a final proposal and you
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want to do a final presentation.
The person says, will email that to
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me. That's a very, very
bad strategy. You email your proposal,
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you're done. So you have the
proposal. You say, listen, I
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prefer, if it's okay with you, to get everybody on the phone together,
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everybody on a video called together.
Are Everybody in the same room together,
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and that way I'm able to go
through it with you and answer those
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questions. Why don't we get together? So you just hold that back and
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say I'm not willing to email that
to you. Hey, everybody logan with
364
00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:15.980
sweet fish here. You probably already
know that we think you should start a
365
00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:18.420
podcast, if you haven't already.
But what if you have and you're asking
366
00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:23.019
these kinds of questions? How much
has our podcast impacted revenue this year?
367
00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:29.329
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00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.200
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US growth. That's sea St Ed
dot US growth. All right, let's
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get back to the show. Jeb, I love what you've been saying here
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in in looking at what do you
give and what do you get throughout the
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process, not just once you get
handed off to procurement and the official negotiating
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begins, and I like that line. I if people miss that you want
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to hit the back button a few
times when you were talking about not sending
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that proposal or just doing the demo
to one person a blueprint for how we
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serve your organization. I just really
like the phrasing. They're one of the
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things that I feel like I've evolved
as a salesperson to realize is that when
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someone asks for something one you've got
to realize, hey, I don't just
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have to give that. That is
not the only thing. Goes back to,
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you know what you said before.
It's about discovery and further questions to
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realize what is the the motivation behind
that question, and so what I've found
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is that there are different levers that
you can use or creative ways to find
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out what is it that is valuable
to them. That might not cost me
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as much and therefore have been able
to negotiate, but really to me it
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feels like I'm just kind of building
a custom house for someone and they're happy.
391
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I just want to into that a
little bit for one more tactical piece
392
00:25:17.779 --> 00:25:19.980
of advice on negotiating for folks before
we wrap. I love that. So
393
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that's part of the discovery we if
you don't do great discovery, and Chris
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is right about that, you got
no negotiation. So one of the things
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that you're doing while you're doing discovery
is you're basically building a list of each
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00:25:32.089 --> 00:25:36.359
stakeholders negotiation points, like what's important
to them. Just build we just call
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00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.039
the stakeholder list, right, so
you just build their lists out so you
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find it all the things are important
to you for let's say, for example,
399
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that you have a product that you
sell or a service you sell,
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let's say a software, and you
sell the software and then you have a
401
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:51.630
training program that you can give to
the users of the software to get them
402
00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.509
ramped up a little bit faster,
and you find out from the stakeholder that
403
00:25:56.029 --> 00:26:00.069
like fast ramp up is really important
to them. They've installed staff software programs
404
00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.299
before and nobody used it and they
felt like they lost their money. So
405
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you know that. So so you
also start building an inventory of all the
406
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things that you have that you can
use as leverage when you're negotiating. One
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of those things. Maybe I can
give away the free training, because it's
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really cost me anything to give it. I could also I could also sell
409
00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:22.369
it to them. So let's say
that I'm having this conversation with them and
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00:26:22.849 --> 00:26:26.490
I built I've got their list and
I've got an entire inventory of things that
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00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.329
I can give and take, and
you always have things like that. So
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00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:33.640
I love what you said, because
what happens is you're able to then take
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00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.000
something that is of low value to
you, like free training videos, and
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00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.240
of high value to your customer,
and you can trade that for them giving
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00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.230
back a you know, of asking
for less of a discount. So what
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00:26:47.390 --> 00:26:48.589
you do is that. The other
thing that you want to do, especially
417
00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:53.029
when you work on enterprise deals,
is as you're building the deal through discovery,
418
00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:56.549
you're building it together. So it's
a consensus process. They say,
419
00:26:56.589 --> 00:27:00.109
well, we want this and we
want this and these are the measurable outcomes
420
00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.500
that we want. They also have
emotional outcomes that they want as well,
421
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:06.420
but we want all of these things. So as they build those things,
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00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:08.019
when you go onto your final proposal, you just sit down and say,
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00:27:08.059 --> 00:27:11.140
listen, you told me that you
wanted this, this, this, this
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00:27:11.299 --> 00:27:12.180
and this. Then I get all
that right and they go yeah, we
425
00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:15.730
got all right, super here's my
proposal. But proposal addresses this, this,
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00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:19.250
this and this. So then when
you're sitting down having a conversation with
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00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:23.250
them and I'll give you one last
tip for procurement, and they're they're saying,
428
00:27:23.289 --> 00:27:26.049
well, you know, we know, we need a lower price or
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00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:30.039
we need this. What you do
is you either can take away something is
430
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.880
important to them. You. So
I can give you a little price,
431
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.000
but I'm going to have to take
back the free training. I would have
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00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:37.720
to charge you for the training or
won't be able to do that for free,
433
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.880
or I'll have to take back the
installation. You can do the installation
434
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.589
yourself. So I can give you
the price, but I'm taking back something
435
00:27:44.630 --> 00:27:47.789
that you would typically give anyway.
But you just take it away. And
436
00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:49.589
when you take things away, people
want them and the whole idea of give
437
00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:52.910
and take is to get them to
the point where they don't want to give
438
00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:56.309
anymore, so then they'll align on
an agreement. If it's a if it's
439
00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.819
an enterprise deal and you're dealing with
a lot of stakeholders, you'll probably have
440
00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.819
a professional purchaser in the room,
what you start doing is you start taking
441
00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:07.259
away the things that they put into
the deal. So this is all the
442
00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:11.500
this is the art of discovery.
You know, tell me what's most important
443
00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:14.049
to you. Will Boom Bibi Boomba, boom and free. You know,
444
00:28:14.170 --> 00:28:18.009
every stakeholder has a success criteria,
the things that they want, and the
445
00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:21.890
organization has a criteria for evaluating their
vendors. Boom, boom, boom.
446
00:28:22.250 --> 00:28:25.809
So you just start unwinding the deal. You're not, you're not like taking
447
00:28:25.849 --> 00:28:27.119
anything away that you gave them.
Just take the stuff out of the deal.
448
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.240
Look, I can do this,
but we won't be able to do
449
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.240
these things. Well, no,
we want those things. We can't do
450
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.680
it without that. So if you
if you're if you're leveraging those things,
451
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.160
you win. We called that in
the book a gift tape playlist. So
452
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.190
before you go in, you've got
a list of the things that you're willing
453
00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:45.789
to give and the things that you're
going to take away for giving those things.
454
00:28:45.990 --> 00:28:49.630
I typically have two or three.
So I'm thinking about different scenarios,
455
00:28:51.069 --> 00:28:52.950
but I've already know what I have, so I don't have to think about
456
00:28:52.950 --> 00:28:56.900
it now. My tip for procurement
so what happens in procurement is so the
457
00:28:56.980 --> 00:29:00.140
stakeholder group says, all, we
really like this, we want to do
458
00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:02.420
business with you. Now you got
to go talk to procurement. Happens all
459
00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.099
the time. And as soon as
you talk to Pcurement, this is what
460
00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:07.619
happens these days. I'll even talk
to anymore. They send you an email
461
00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:10.170
and the email says, wow,
this is really good, we really like
462
00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:11.930
this. But you know, there's
a lot of vendors out there. They
463
00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:14.130
can do the same thing as you, and we're really going to need you
464
00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:17.250
to sharpen your pencil now. You
already made the deal of the stakeholder group.
465
00:29:17.490 --> 00:29:19.369
Now becureman is trying to get you
to lower your prices, and the
466
00:29:19.450 --> 00:29:22.450
way that you handle that as you
say to the procurement group, Hey,
467
00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:27.799
we've given you our very best price, but we can probably get you to
468
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:33.039
your budget level if we take some
things out of the deal. What we
469
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.559
should probably do is get everybody back
together in the room and figure out what
470
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.589
we can take out and order to
meet your budget. And when you do
471
00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:45.109
that, if you've got a stakeholder
group that is highly motivated to do business
472
00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:48.430
with you, that perceives that they
don't have any other alternatives. There's already
473
00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:52.500
agreed with you. Your proposal has
addressed their issues. You've given them a
474
00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:56.619
blue print. And procuremit gets in, it starts messing the deal up.
475
00:29:56.940 --> 00:30:00.900
If you've got good stakeholders, don't
go tell picurement back off. We want
476
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:03.420
to do business with these folks absolutely. And that's where it goes back to
477
00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:07.970
the three parts of the framework that
you talked about earlier motivation, leverage and
478
00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:11.930
power. If you've done a good
job on the motivation front, then you
479
00:30:12.009 --> 00:30:15.410
don't completely lose that when you get
handed off, which is one of those
480
00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:19.009
challenges right back at the top of
the episode that you mentioned, that you're
481
00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:23.960
in that weak power position because your
relationship and the motivation that you've built up
482
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.920
to buy from you is totally lost. But if you use that small strategy
483
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:33.559
to to look them back in and
bring back in your advocates, then you've
484
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.349
got more power, you've got more
leverage, both of those things. I
485
00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:40.190
love what you said as well,
just to kind of put a fine point
486
00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:42.309
on it. For folks going into
every deal, you need to have that
487
00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:47.430
list. What is your inventory of
things? And maybe that is you know,
488
00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:49.700
maybe that's volume, maybe that's length
of commitment, maybe it's training,
489
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:55.740
installation, costs, access to different
content that's valuable but isn't going to cost
490
00:30:55.779 --> 00:31:00.140
you things in order to give away
so that you can start to work on
491
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.289
negotiation more from a consensus with the
other side of the quote unquote, table.
492
00:31:04.289 --> 00:31:07.609
I love what you said that the
table is in the cloud today.
493
00:31:07.089 --> 00:31:11.289
So many great quotable moments, Jeb. If anybody listening to this out wants
494
00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:15.009
to find a copy of the book, reach out to you or stay connected
495
00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:18.920
with all of the content that you
guys are putting out. What's the best
496
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.880
way for folks to stay connected with
you guys? Absolutely, if you want
497
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:22.799
to get the book, the best
places to go to barns and noble,
498
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.559
Amazon, wherever books are sold.
It is the Ebook, it's it's a
499
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.559
hardcover. Audio book will be out
very shortly. If you want to autograph
500
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.269
copy of ink or any of my
boasts, is going to sells gravycom and
501
00:31:33.349 --> 00:31:37.190
pressed store or shop and the top
of the menu, and then we have
502
00:31:37.269 --> 00:31:41.150
autograph books. We can send those
to you and the shipping is free on
503
00:31:41.230 --> 00:31:44.589
those. And if you want to
stay in touch with me, sells gravycom
504
00:31:44.789 --> 00:31:48.819
or my personal website, Jobcom,
and I'm on twitter at seals gravy,
505
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:53.339
instagram at seals gravy, Youtube I'm
Ford sells gravy, facebook at sells gravy
506
00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:56.019
and course, you just type my
name in on Linkedin and you'll be able
507
00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:59.619
to find me and stay in touch
with me, easy enough. JEBB,
508
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:02.130
this has been a great conversation,
some very tactical stuff that we always try
509
00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:06.130
and do here on the BB sales
show. So thank you for bringing the
510
00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:08.769
fire today. Really appreciate you being
a guest on the show. Thank you
511
00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:15.480
so much. I hate it when
podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews,
512
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.359
but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're
513
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.200
trying to grow a podcast audience.
So here's what we decided to do.
514
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:27.240
If you leave a review for be
to be growth and apple podcasts and email
515
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.509
me a screenshot of the review to
James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send
516
00:32:30.549 --> 00:32:34.869
you a signed copy of my new
book, content based networking, how to
517
00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:37.470
instantly connect with anyone you want to
know. We get a review, you
518
00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:39.269
get a free book. We both
win.