1247: Build Your Marketing Strategy on Trust w/ Jeanne Hopkins

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:08.869 Hey everyone, it is Kelsey corps with sweet fish media and we are really 2 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:13.429 excited to share with you an episode of the marketers journey from our friends over 3 00:00:13.470 --> 00:00:18.750 at UBERFLIP. The marketers journey is a podcast dedicated to learning from senior marketing 4 00:00:18.829 --> 00:00:22.820 executives. Each week, they speak to marketers and learn whether it was luck, 5 00:00:22.899 --> 00:00:26.780 hustle or a combination of the two which propelled them to their latest position. 6 00:00:27.460 --> 00:00:31.300 Then they explore how to engage their current and future customers on a path 7 00:00:31.339 --> 00:00:37.369 that is similarly planned yet adaptive. The marketers journey features amazing conversations with marketing 8 00:00:37.450 --> 00:00:43.049 leaders who share how to attract and convert with personalization from their entire buyer journey. 9 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:46.850 If you think you'll find the show valuable after you listen to the episode, 10 00:00:46.929 --> 00:00:51.039 just search the marketers journey and apple podcast or your favorite podcast player. 11 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:56.840 Okay, let's get into it. They Jim, thank you so much for 12 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:00.399 stopping by and talking to us about your career and how you got into be 13 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.750 the CMO of a company called lolacom. Maybe you can tell us a little 14 00:01:04.750 --> 00:01:10.269 bit more about loladcom. I know it's a mouthful, isn't it random? 15 00:01:10.310 --> 00:01:17.310 I want to get it like yeah, it's a you gotta say thecom. 16 00:01:17.430 --> 00:01:21.299 And there's a logic to this, randy. It's that there is a there's 17 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:23.939 a lot of Lolas in the world and for us, Lola that was founded 18 00:01:23.980 --> 00:01:29.180 by Paul English, who also found a Kayak Lola. The loo is for 19 00:01:29.299 --> 00:01:34.010 longitude, the La is for latitude, and loladcom. We actually bought the 20 00:01:34.129 --> 00:01:38.890 domain itself about four years ago from a now defunct clothing brand. But we're 21 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.769 up a bunch of up against a bunch of other Lola's. The number one 22 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:48.239 lola that we're kind of up against as a BBC product. It's a seminine 23 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:52.439 products company and if you were if you just type in Lola, they have 24 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.439 a tendency to come up number one in the search of findings on the Google 25 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:01.310 machine. So I like to use Lolacom so people know to go to us 26 00:02:01.709 --> 00:02:07.829 at a business to business travel software platform that will help you save money and 27 00:02:07.989 --> 00:02:10.870 give you transparency. So there's a reason, Randy. There you go. 28 00:02:12.069 --> 00:02:14.509 Now I like, first off, you own a four letter domain. You 29 00:02:14.550 --> 00:02:17.979 should talk about the fact you on thatcom. Yeah, it's just too bad 30 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:22.180 at it. Obviously wasn't a whole bunch of people who had to travel versus 31 00:02:22.219 --> 00:02:24.900 by women's close. But there you got. But so be it. Your 32 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:29.740 you are where you are now. Mab You can give us some some perspective 33 00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:34.729 to how big your team is, what type of buying cycle that you deal 34 00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:38.210 with, a little a little bit of contexted type of Cmo that you need 35 00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:42.610 to be today. Well, in this in this particular environment, it's a 36 00:02:42.969 --> 00:02:47.360 relatively new technology. The company Lola started out as a be Toc product and 37 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:51.960 it only pivoted to be to be when Mike folthy. A lot of people 38 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.120 know Mike Bolthe in the space. He used to be a CMO at a 39 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.669 hug spot, he was at cyber reason, he's an investor and a lot 40 00:02:59.750 --> 00:03:04.949 of different startups. He's the CEO here at Lolacom and when he joined about 41 00:03:05.430 --> 00:03:07.710 when to say, eighteen months ago, he did a pivot to be to 42 00:03:07.789 --> 00:03:13.340 be and actually started charging for the product. What a concept, and then 43 00:03:13.460 --> 00:03:16.900 he started show. So our first customers were actually paying customers were in August 44 00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:22.780 two thousand and eighteen, and we've started going through the renewal process and upgrades 45 00:03:22.819 --> 00:03:27.409 and that sort of thing, and the product itself has has seen a number 46 00:03:27.409 --> 00:03:32.689 of updates. integrations with large partners. Plus what you get with our lightweight 47 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:38.169 platform is something that you don't get with other old school travel platforms, which 48 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:43.800 everybody on this listening to this podcast has been had to deal with over the 49 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:49.120 years. We have a industry partner, American Express, global business travel, 50 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:53.039 that buys billions and billions dollars worth of travel and we're able to use our 51 00:03:53.560 --> 00:04:00.150 buying capabilities with theirs to be able to offer good prices on hotels and cars 52 00:04:00.270 --> 00:04:03.469 and flights. Plus we've got the stamp of approval with a lot of integrations 53 00:04:03.629 --> 00:04:08.349 like expensive by. So it's a it's a lot of fun, a lot 54 00:04:08.430 --> 00:04:12.219 of moving pieces, a lot of integrations and partners. So partner marketing will 55 00:04:12.219 --> 00:04:15.780 be will come back to partner marketing. Are you go second have this show 56 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:17.300 when we think about, you know, by our journey and all the different, 57 00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:21.019 different angles we have to come from. But I'm curious before we kind 58 00:04:21.019 --> 00:04:24.490 of go back to the beginning of your career, I mean your decision to 59 00:04:24.610 --> 00:04:30.050 join Lola and as CMO, I guess I assume you're reporting into the CEO, 60 00:04:30.689 --> 00:04:33.449 reporting into an Excmoh, what was that like, or what had that 61 00:04:33.649 --> 00:04:38.250 been like? I mean, I know Mike well he's a brilliant guy and 62 00:04:38.329 --> 00:04:41.800 I know you're big on learning. So was it? was that a big 63 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.680 part of the motivation? Or is that scary? Well, I worked for 64 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:47.759 Mike when I was at hub spot. So I worked for him for three 65 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:53.629 years and what I like about Mike is that he doesn't bug you. He 66 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:56.629 hires you, he gives you, tells you what he wants you to do 67 00:04:56.990 --> 00:05:00.670 and you go do it. And if you have too manyy meetings with him, 68 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:04.629 then you know that things aren't going that well. And and if you 69 00:05:04.670 --> 00:05:08.939 don't have a lot of meetings with him, he's fine. And so I 70 00:05:09.019 --> 00:05:14.259 find that it's easy to work for him and I trust him implicitly. And 71 00:05:14.379 --> 00:05:17.620 I've worked for a number of CEOS, as many people have over the years. 72 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:23.970 This is my six CMO GIG and I think over the years there's CEOS 73 00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:28.129 you trust and ones that you don't trust so much. So both is definitely 74 00:05:28.170 --> 00:05:33.129 one that I trust implicitly. So your career is is amazing. First of 75 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:35.800 all, some of the companies you've been with, I mean hub spot, 76 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:40.040 you mentioned. They're smart bears, another company that I know you and I 77 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.879 talked to talk to each other while you're at rather than go all the way 78 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.319 back to the beginning. The beginning of time has, you know, some 79 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.589 of the guess that we've had on here there. You know, one CMO 80 00:05:51.790 --> 00:05:57.269 GIG in or a couple in and figuring out how to pick the winners time 81 00:05:57.310 --> 00:06:01.269 and time again. What is your recipe for finding the company that you want 82 00:06:01.310 --> 00:06:05.259 to go be a CMO at today? Oh, that's a good question, 83 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:10.699 Randy. I've made a lot of mistakes. There's one company that I went 84 00:06:10.819 --> 00:06:15.459 to work for that I realize I had made a massive mistake on day two, 85 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:18.730 that what I had been told was in fact not what the company was. 86 00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:23.970 Some of it is knowing the people, being able to work for people 87 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:28.089 that you work before. So if you I mean there's one CEO I've worked 88 00:06:28.089 --> 00:06:30.649 for in two different companies. It was that smart there and that Ipswich. 89 00:06:31.009 --> 00:06:34.439 I knew how to work with him. A lot of people struggled with that 90 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.800 and I knew what I was getting or getting myself into. So you knew 91 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.839 like how he operated, and that's important. You know, again it gets 92 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:48.029 back down to that trust component. But I think one of the things that 93 00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:53.750 I look for is the team. I really want to be able to talk 94 00:06:53.870 --> 00:06:58.949 to as many possible team members as possible during the interview process, and the 95 00:06:59.069 --> 00:07:03.100 other one is what can I learn from going to this particular organization? What 96 00:07:03.220 --> 00:07:08.100 will be my takeaways and, as far as my team is concerned, how 97 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:12.459 can I make them so that they'll be more valuable in the market going forward? 98 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:16.810 I can safely say that in my career I've actually been able to mentor 99 00:07:17.129 --> 00:07:21.209 a number of CMOS, people that have become CMOS, a lot of VP's 100 00:07:21.290 --> 00:07:25.649 of marketing, a lot of directors of marketing, and those are people that 101 00:07:25.730 --> 00:07:30.040 even started as interns for me, and I kind of look at it as 102 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.959 my legacy, if you will, that I'm me and I like to do 103 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.519 things, but I like to teach, I like to coach, I like 104 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:41.240 to help people be better at everything that they're doing and as a as a 105 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.589 result, I want them to be the best that they can be. I 106 00:07:44.790 --> 00:07:48.029 love that. I want to go back, I want to come to there 107 00:07:48.069 --> 00:07:53.230 were two big parts of that it. Yeah, the second part was all 108 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:58.620 about teaching people and creating an environment and culture, I guess, of learning. 109 00:07:58.660 --> 00:08:01.379 I want to come back to that. But at the beginning you done 110 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:05.379 something really important, which was speaking to his many people from the team as 111 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:09.540 possible. And and I'm curious when you describe that, because going in is 112 00:08:09.579 --> 00:08:13.290 a CMO is different than, say, going in as a VPA marketing or 113 00:08:13.569 --> 00:08:18.050 director of marketing or a manager. You know, in those cases you want 114 00:08:18.050 --> 00:08:20.569 to talk to the people who will be your peers. When you do that, 115 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:24.610 that discovery on your end. How much of that is spent talking to 116 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:31.240 the existing marketing team versus the executive team? How do you form your decision 117 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.679 between those two different teams? That's that's an excellent question, Randy. I 118 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.240 think what I look at the executive team and I can tell you I've had 119 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.029 a lot of interviews and I've had offers for other CM rolls and other companies 120 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:52.789 and, for example, I didn't want to report two, three co CEOS 121 00:08:52.990 --> 00:08:56.299 because I thought that was just a recipe for disaster. Yea, you are 122 00:08:56.340 --> 00:09:01.740 all the founders, but to have a three headed hydra in trying to understand 123 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:05.820 what is being done and, as you're painfully aware, and every every organization, 124 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:11.090 everyone's a marketer, everyone from the CFO telling you that they don't like 125 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:13.970 the color green or whatever it is, or you should be doing it this 126 00:09:15.169 --> 00:09:18.889 way. But I think that the thing that I look for is, do 127 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:22.169 you trust me to do my job? Am I going to be able to 128 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:28.279 do my job well enough to be able to move the company forward? EVERY 129 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.879 CMO? It comes in at a different place in the company. I prefer 130 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.240 a high growth environment, but I've been put into organizations which have tried to 131 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:43.190 integrate five companies that have been acquired by a pe for firm and you're trying 132 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:45.509 to like, what's the story? How do you cross sell? How do 133 00:09:45.549 --> 00:09:48.629 you upsell? And that's a different solution than a company that's been around for 134 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:54.539 twenty seven years, that is a non premises software company that is only up 135 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:58.740 that that can't update anything through the cloud and it has, you know, 136 00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:05.700 ninety eight different versions of a product and having different conversations. So there's your 137 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.649 every company is different. We're not all talking SASS, we're not all talking 138 00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:15.129 specific kinds of software. Sometimes I look at the buyers and I've spent a 139 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:18.970 lot of time talking to it buyers. Naturally I have. I prefer talking 140 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:26.039 to marketers because they have, in an eight sense of adventure and are always 141 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.519 looking for something to be a something new, something that's going to make them 142 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:33.279 better. It people on the other hand, don't like marketers that much. 143 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.669 Engineers don't like marketers that much, and it's mostly because marketers haven't done a 144 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:43.909 good job of being able to articulate the story or marketers haven't given themselves a 145 00:10:45.029 --> 00:10:48.549 chance to be able to get to know the engineers or the it people correctly 146 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:54.340 or in a way that you can have a good conversation. So you did 147 00:10:54.379 --> 00:10:56.860 a good job there, kind of leading me back. That can part of 148 00:10:56.899 --> 00:11:01.019 your of the goal to always be learning, and it's interesting you talk about 149 00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:05.730 enjoying science. To marketers, I mean some people create that, some people 150 00:11:05.289 --> 00:11:09.289 stay far away of it is, I always say, the challenge of say 151 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:13.450 only to marketers is they're really smart and the way off and put it is 152 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:16.289 you just have to be prepared, because if they say if they don't think 153 00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:20.399 you can keep up in a conversation, they don't want to talk to you. 154 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.679 If they think they can learn from you, then they're happy to jump 155 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.440 on a call, do a discovery, see a demo and and I know 156 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.399 that you said you know being an environment of learning and learning yourself is so 157 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.590 important. How do you rank when you can learn something new? Is it 158 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:39.789 learning about the industry? That's important to you, or is it learning about 159 00:11:41.110 --> 00:11:45.629 how to approach a market? Well, those are the flip side of the 160 00:11:45.710 --> 00:11:48.940 same coin. You know, we all have different personas that were pursuing and 161 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:54.659 different stages of the buying cycle. You asked about the Lula buying cycle. 162 00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:58.019 Well, we have several personas, the people that are actually buying the product. 163 00:11:58.019 --> 00:12:03.009 There maybe going from unmanaged or spreadsheets of some sort and keeping track of 164 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:09.370 the expenses. In every organization, TNE is the second line item in terms 165 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:13.450 of cost, right after payroll, and it's rarely managed and there's no real 166 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:16.559 visibility in the finance team is the one that, with policy, is like 167 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:22.559 forced to slap people on the risk, and that finance persona rarely travels. 168 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.919 They're not on the road very often. Maybe they go to one conference a 169 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:30.149 year, but they don't really like to travel. They see things in black 170 00:12:30.190 --> 00:12:33.950 and white. The other persona is the executive assistant or the office manager or 171 00:12:35.029 --> 00:12:37.950 the travel manager and an organization that is doing all the travel for somebody, 172 00:12:39.269 --> 00:12:43.110 and they're usually their hair is on fire and they don't fit. They could 173 00:12:43.110 --> 00:12:46.899 be a champion, but they don't have the approval authority. The third persona 174 00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:52.779 would be the actual business traveler and that business traveler is looking for ways to 175 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:54.980 save time and make sure that they have a safety net when they're on the 176 00:12:56.059 --> 00:13:00.250 road. Well, I can focus my content and I can focus my efforts 177 00:13:00.289 --> 00:13:05.210 on the business traveler, but they're the user and we want the product to 178 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.169 make it simple and great for them so they have a good user experience. 179 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:13.759 We want the Admin or the travel manager to be able to recognize that their 180 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.960 lives have they've just gotten back their weekend, so they realize they're not going 181 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.080 to get a call at three o'clock in the morning from somebody saying I'm stuck 182 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.279 in Omaha, and the finance people were trying to show them that they can 183 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:31.590 minimize their pain with transparency and the ability to see what's happening in tne in 184 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:37.110 real time. I'm sure you worked at companies where somebody has turned in their 185 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:41.980 expense sheets, you know, six months late and while in many organizations it's 186 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:46.539 not material in terms of the finances of the company, but there's nothing that's 187 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:50.820 going to Earth a finance leader more than getting six months worth of expenses that 188 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.740 were never accrued for in any way, shape or form and have to be 189 00:13:54.860 --> 00:13:58.169 taken care of right away. So we have different personas, we have different 190 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:03.250 buying people. So I'm I'm looking at it that I travel on business travel, 191 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:07.809 so I understand the pain and anxiety that goes along with it, but 192 00:14:09.049 --> 00:14:13.480 I also understand how important it is to the finance team. So what I 193 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.320 would say to you, Randy? For me, a good marketer has a 194 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:22.320 great relationship with their finance leader, and the reason they have a great relationship 195 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.230 as they don't go over budget, they're able to anticipate if they do go 196 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:30.230 over budget, or they're be able to preplan or be able to take care 197 00:14:30.269 --> 00:14:35.909 of their finance obligations in any organization. And as a CMO, I look 198 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:39.019 at it that you need to know where your money is being sent. You 199 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:43.940 need spent, you need to remove all the leakages, the text Dec that 200 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.500 nobody is using. You need to figure out how you're going to get the 201 00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:52.700 best roi out of the spend that you have, because there's no department in 202 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:56.769 any company that spends more than marketing and there's no department that has a larger 203 00:14:56.809 --> 00:15:03.490 variable expense than marketing. And if your CFO or your finance leader doesn't believe 204 00:15:03.649 --> 00:15:09.159 that you have control over your expenses or the way that you're dealing with your 205 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:13.279 budget. They're not going to trust you if they if you wanted a hundred 206 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.519 thousand dollars and you went to your CFO and you said, if you give 207 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.320 me a hundred thousand dollar in five bucks out, how many marketers can say 208 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.950 that they have that relationship of trust that would allow the finance leader to be 209 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.389 able to say, I'll give you a hundred because I know you'll get me 210 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.470 back five hundred. Absolutely it's a great way to put it in and back 211 00:15:33.590 --> 00:15:37.100 to where we started on this, because it's I know this idea of where 212 00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:39.460 do you learn? Right, where do you you know? And it sounds 213 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.700 like for you it's it's learning from that team, learning about more efficient ways 214 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:48.059 to go to market and in ironically, now, and you're any company, 215 00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:52.809 that's all about that cost center, controlling cost centers, which is definitely interesting. 216 00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:58.129 Before we I want to go back after great we keep going back. 217 00:15:58.529 --> 00:16:03.799 I know sometimes some resuli show but we ultimately get to an endpoint. But 218 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:07.759 I want to hit on one more aspect about your career that I find really 219 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:12.320 interesting and then we'll go back after the break to the personas and how you're 220 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:17.679 trying to manage so many different buyers, because that was an interesting piece there 221 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.309 too. But one of the things in your career that I really respect that 222 00:16:21.429 --> 00:16:25.830 you make time for is is a lot of advisory work, and I'm wondering 223 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:30.669 how you a squeeze that in and be other than giving back to the community. 224 00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:34.700 How is that helped, do you think, propel your career? I 225 00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:38.899 like learning new things and every time that I've been able to be on an 226 00:16:38.899 --> 00:16:45.620 advisory board it's sort of like when you're in Grad school and you're doing all 227 00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:52.090 the customer overviews and you're learning about case studies and we have similar problems, 228 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:56.370 but you're coming at it from a slightly different angle and I think I have 229 00:16:56.570 --> 00:17:00.289 the benefit being able to look at things a little more holistically. I can 230 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:06.319 look at them higher up. I can understand the implications of organizational dynamics, 231 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:11.759 I can understan the implications of budget, I can understand the implications of what 232 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.910 you're trying to do from a campaign, your persona's you're marketing, and being 233 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:19.349 able to have that kind of view you're what you're trying to do as an 234 00:17:19.349 --> 00:17:26.309 organization is always fascinating to me, and just getting people marketing, people that 235 00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:30.900 have never been forced to align themselves, those with with a sales organization, 236 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:33.740 being able to teach them the things that you need to do in order to 237 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:41.019 grow your business grow yourself individually. I just find very, very interesting. 238 00:17:41.019 --> 00:17:45.730 That's great now, that's that's amazing. It just if advice for people have. 239 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:49.049 How many advisory rules do you think you can possibly take on at one 240 00:17:49.089 --> 00:17:52.849 point while still being in a CML role? Like is there? Do you 241 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.210 train structure yourself to only have certain number, or do you just wait to 242 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:03.079 feel like you're cracking? I think it's somewhat dependent on what the organization is 243 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:07.119 looking for from you. Right now. I the Coffee Cup collective, which 244 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.480 is they're trying to beat a coffee cups what blue bikes is for bikes in 245 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:18.470 terms of reusing and sharing, the sharing economy, and I reviewed a deck 246 00:18:18.589 --> 00:18:22.470 that they were making a proposal to over the weekend and because I find it 247 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:26.740 fascinating and I've done so many decks in my life that I was saying that 248 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:32.019 this is not explaining your story. You don't have it succinct enough, you 249 00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:36.099 don't have the bullet points in here. It's reading like a treatise and you're 250 00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:38.859 never going to get anybody to read, you know, twenty five hundred words 251 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:42.930 without breaking it out. Sometimes somehow to be able to show what your takeaways 252 00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:47.529 are, because we all get so bogged down in the minutia of the things 253 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:51.410 that were working on. But sometimes it takes somebody from the outside to be 254 00:18:51.490 --> 00:18:55.089 able to say, you know, change your opening, make it simpler, 255 00:18:55.529 --> 00:18:57.960 this is not is of this. You haven't made it visible, you haven't 256 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.640 made it concrete enough, and those kinds of things. There are a lot 257 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.599 of fun it's I find that fascinating. I love that. It definitely speaks 258 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.390 to you your mindset, as you said, to always keep learning. And 259 00:19:10.549 --> 00:19:12.750 on that front we're going to take a quick break learn from our sponsor and 260 00:19:12.789 --> 00:19:17.630 then we'll be right back here with Jene to dig into her buyer journey. 261 00:19:17.829 --> 00:19:22.910 On the Marketerscourney, want to create high converting experiences for your demand strategies that 262 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:29.700 accelerate pipeline and drive revenue. Look no further than our presenting sponsor, Uberflip, 263 00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:34.019 named a leader in content experience by GTWO and a leader in content activation 264 00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:41.450 by forester. UBERFLIP will help you accelerate every buyer journey by creating bingeable experiences 265 00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:45.809 that will allow your prospects to consume more content faster. Companies like Trimble, 266 00:19:47.009 --> 00:19:52.049 Wiley and standtech are using uberflip to power their go to market strategies, and 267 00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:57.119 we created one just for you. Head to uberflipcom journey to see how UBERFLIP 268 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:03.680 can help you leverage the power of personalized content experiences to drive demand. All 269 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.750 Right, Jean, so we already started to go into the second segment very 270 00:20:07.789 --> 00:20:14.670 naturally before, when you described three different buyers that you have to get attention 271 00:20:14.710 --> 00:20:17.670 from. One, if I recall, was the finance leader, the second 272 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:22.259 in your case was the travel manager and the third was the business traveler. 273 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.500 And that's it's tricky. I can relate to that. To here Duber flip. 274 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:30.380 Sometimes we're trying to get the demand marketer on side as well as the 275 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:34.769 content marketer, as well as the CEMO. A lot of marketers are struggling 276 00:20:34.809 --> 00:20:41.410 these days with how do you get different buyers or multiple buyers at the table 277 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.329 with either the same messaging or, in reality, certain of personalize. What 278 00:20:45.529 --> 00:20:51.319 is your mindset around how segmented your messaging and your content is? Well, 279 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.640 that's a very good question. So, from an SEO perspective, some of 280 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.359 the things that we look at, I let's just back it up a little 281 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:04.069 bit. So campaigns and paid programs, we find that many people that are 282 00:21:04.109 --> 00:21:10.470 absolutely their hairzon fire as far as being internal travel managers, whether their executive 283 00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:14.509 assistants or office managers. However they're trying to deal with travel for a team 284 00:21:14.549 --> 00:21:19.220 or for a company, they are very interested in Lola. Now and two 285 00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:23.900 thousand and nineteen, we went to a number of events that targeted these office 286 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:29.779 Ninja's or these types of individuals. However, if you just look at band, 287 00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:33.369 they don't have the budget, they don't have the authority, they definitely 288 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:36.569 have the need. So they got that in in there. And then, 289 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:41.009 from a t standpoint, the timing can't be fast enough. But in reality, 290 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:45.609 the people that passed the credit card onto us are oftentimes the finance leader 291 00:21:45.730 --> 00:21:49.839 within a company, because we have to prove to them that by using Lola 292 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:55.440 that they'll be able to save time, save money, save everything. They 293 00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:02.390 are much less concerned with the implementation of a travel policy or program. Most 294 00:22:02.430 --> 00:22:06.309 of the time, most of our customers are going from an unmanaged environment to 295 00:22:06.390 --> 00:22:12.710 a managed environment and just the sheer concept of rolling out yet another integration, 296 00:22:12.789 --> 00:22:19.220 another plan, another something pretty much makes the finance leader just want to scream 297 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.740 and go running into the hills, no matter how easy we are, and 298 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:27.900 they typically this is where the the tie in with marketing. Think about how 299 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:33.210 many finance leaders have a good relationship with marketing that marketing can do an internal 300 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:38.569 employee roll out or hr or people laps, because if you can make your 301 00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:44.359 business travelers, who are typically what typically sales people, typically people that are 302 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.480 going to events, to be able to increase the buzz for your company, 303 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:52.279 if you could make them happier, that would be a win. Finance people 304 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.359 don't always think like that. They want to think like that, but it's 305 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.509 not as much of a priority. So it's a greeting divers apple and honestly, 306 00:23:00.789 --> 00:23:04.869 I think a lot of whether you're a business leader listening to this podcast 307 00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:08.069 or whether you're a marketer, you're probably not in your head saying I wish 308 00:23:08.109 --> 00:23:15.500 my life is easier, or generalizing this example to anyone who's listening, though, 309 00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:19.700 but still using this example, trying to get a finance leader on side 310 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:26.250 and the business traveler with the same messaging, the same value prop near impossible. 311 00:23:26.329 --> 00:23:30.369 I would it is totally impossible because you're talking Meta and then you're talking 312 00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:34.210 micro. Right, the business traveler, what do they care about? Am 313 00:23:34.210 --> 00:23:37.250 I going to get home for my kids soccer game? Am I going to 314 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.279 be stuck in Omaha for the weekend? You know the they have very legitimate 315 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:47.119 short term concerns. The finance person just wants to make sure that they're going 316 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:48.839 to be on budget. They want to make sure that they're going to be 317 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.640 able to save money. Our software doesn't cost very much. It's under tenzero 318 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.549 a year. It's a thousand dollars a month and if you could save a 319 00:23:56.670 --> 00:24:02.190 thousand dollars a month on airfare or hotels, it's a no brainer. It's 320 00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:07.710 just that it is a challenge to convince that that particular audience. So taking 321 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:11.660 this to the to the level of just thinking of the buyer journey and thinking 322 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.500 about who you're trying to get at the plate, I assume in some cases 323 00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:18.940 you need to lead with the finance manager and other times you need to lead 324 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:22.460 with the travel manager inside that same company, but sometimes you probably just need 325 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:26.289 to get the right message to each of them at right times. Yeah, 326 00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:30.410 your journey. How do you how do you manage that and maybe getting specific 327 00:24:30.569 --> 00:24:36.170 who is the lead versus who is just along for the ride at a later 328 00:24:36.329 --> 00:24:41.720 stage and now perhaps an opportunity stage and inside of that sales like that's a 329 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.240 that is a fantastic question, randy, and as any marketer that's listening to 330 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.480 this knows, is that there is no one single sale. No one person 331 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:55.190 in any company has the authority or the ability to be able to buy something 332 00:24:55.269 --> 00:24:59.029 right. It doesn't matter how much a cost. They don't have the authority 333 00:24:59.190 --> 00:25:02.950 and to be able to roll it out on a companywide basis. It becomes 334 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:07.500 it's a consultation right, it's a cooperative, it's a it's an entire organization 335 00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:11.380 that has to be able to think about these types of solutions. You mentioned 336 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.420 talking to a demand Gen person, talking to a content person, talking to 337 00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:19.380 a CMO. You'd be talking to the email you'd be talking to all these 338 00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:22.609 individual people and they'd all have to go yep, Yep, Yep, Yep, 339 00:25:22.690 --> 00:25:26.170 Yep. You get one person that goes I don't know, I'm not 340 00:25:26.369 --> 00:25:30.529 really sure, then it's never going to move forward and you could have all 341 00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:33.930 the right buyers. It's not. I'm not going to talk about us as 342 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:37.720 a company, but let's say I had been on many a sales call with 343 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:44.599 hub spot, and especially at the enterprise level where I'm talking to marketing leaders, 344 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.000 and I would I would definitely say to the salesperson if this marketing organization 345 00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:53.349 does not have a content team and if they don't have the capability to be 346 00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:56.990 able to write content, they're never going to be a win for hub spot. 347 00:25:57.430 --> 00:26:02.109 They have to drink the orange cool aid. They have to realize that 348 00:26:02.309 --> 00:26:06.180 this is if everybody knew that it you could just flip a switch, it 349 00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:08.700 would be no problem to be able to sell, but it requires work and 350 00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:14.339 that's pretty much randy what I'm doing right now. For the past year we've 351 00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:19.609 been creating content for all these individual personas. We just started a column called 352 00:26:19.809 --> 00:26:26.289 Dear Yanni, which is asking very specific travel questions on a global basis in 353 00:26:26.410 --> 00:26:30.210 an effort to be able to get increased SEO. We're using a lot of 354 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:33.799 travel policy, a lot of accounting terms to be able to somebody is looking 355 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:38.240 for business travel, they're going to find us. We talked about policies, 356 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:45.039 savings of travel management, a lot of different things, but the persona that 357 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:49.670 is the biggest champion that brings us to the table are those travel managers that 358 00:26:49.750 --> 00:26:56.230 are losing their minds and that those are the people that that have the ability 359 00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:59.589 to make the finance person say you've got to take a look at this, 360 00:27:00.109 --> 00:27:03.660 and that's where I feel we have excellent product market fit and I feel like 361 00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:08.980 it's great for the long term and especially as we roll out internationally. Because 362 00:27:10.339 --> 00:27:15.849 you're in Canada, you're considered international to us and it right. So the 363 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:19.250 laws and the rules are very similar, but we have to make sure that 364 00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:23.809 you have the ability to go back and forth from Canada, whether it's Toronto 365 00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:30.039 to Boston. That is a different travel experience than it is from Boston to 366 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.960 New York. So we those are all things that we're looking at experiences. 367 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:38.640 So I may use one last question here, and I may be generalizing, 368 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:44.079 but is trying to take this to the higher level marketing. Takeaway here for 369 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.190 our listeners, which is in your example, let's suppose that you decided that 370 00:27:48.309 --> 00:27:52.549 the travel manager was really the key person you want to or perhaps there that 371 00:27:53.069 --> 00:27:56.910 they're the leads that you need to go after. Ultimately, the getting them 372 00:27:56.910 --> 00:28:02.619 to that mty'll stage is really going to light it influence this finance leader at 373 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:07.180 some point. How do you rally your entire organization, sales people included, 374 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.819 to zone in on that person when I'm sure some of them are saying, 375 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:12.730 well, I'll just sell in through the finance leader? And again, I 376 00:28:12.849 --> 00:28:15.730 may be wrong. Sometimes it maybe that you do need to get the finance 377 00:28:15.809 --> 00:28:19.930 eater, but for marketers I think sometimes you know, we struggled to get 378 00:28:19.930 --> 00:28:25.289 our sales team to all target that same buyer at the right stage versus trying 379 00:28:25.329 --> 00:28:27.240 to skip over multiple levels. Do you see that or do you have any 380 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:33.200 tricks to manage focus throughout the company? There are no tricks. There are 381 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.039 no silver bullets if there were, it's just a lot of heavy lifting. 382 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:44.069 So we actually have a persona one shooters, that we'VE PDF to and we've 383 00:28:44.109 --> 00:28:48.029 rolled out in conjunction with our product team. I have to tell you here 384 00:28:48.069 --> 00:28:52.710 at Lola we have a fantastic relationship with the product team, with the sales 385 00:28:52.789 --> 00:28:56.980 team and with the customers success team. Marketing owns customer success here at Lola 386 00:28:57.460 --> 00:29:03.220 and I also own the voice of the customer meeting where it's I'm responsible for 387 00:29:03.299 --> 00:29:07.259 the three reasons we want, the three reasons we lost. What are the 388 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:11.849 packaging and pricing concerns that we do on a monthly basis and this information. 389 00:29:11.369 --> 00:29:15.410 I have five presenters. I have to direct the and direct the customers success, 390 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:19.650 the services team and product marketing on one side and I have the product 391 00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:26.000 management team on the other side. And this is a discussion for ninety minutes. 392 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.559 And what is a customer asking for? What are we missing? What 393 00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.599 do we need? Why are we winning? Because so many of these things, 394 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.519 like I needed to have this, I need to be able to rent 395 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:40.630 a, you know, Maserati in Boston and there weren't any cars or something 396 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:45.950 like that. Those are those are very, very nonsensical reasons. But what 397 00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.430 we try to do here in the marketing team is to be able to take 398 00:29:49.470 --> 00:29:53.500 a broader brush and be able to look for themes and month after month after 399 00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:57.980 month, if we're hearing the same things from our personas, then we're learning 400 00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:03.619 more and everybody is learning from everybody else in those particular meetings. I love 401 00:30:03.700 --> 00:30:07.930 that and need it comes back to, I think, your mantras. All, 402 00:30:07.049 --> 00:30:10.609 as I'll frame it, is all but learning from each other, and 403 00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:15.009 this has been great, Jane. I've really appreciate it. If you've got 404 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:17.690 a few minutes. We're going to keep you around after a short break and 405 00:30:17.769 --> 00:30:19.690 we're going to get to a little bit more about you. We've learned about 406 00:30:19.690 --> 00:30:23.079 your career journey, the buyer journey. Now we do have no about some 407 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:26.640 of your personal journeys. Will be right back here on the markets journey. 408 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.839 All right, Jane, we have hit on various parts of your journey, 409 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.390 but let's talk about but how you take personal time? How do you break 410 00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:41.750 as a busy cmo six times over now, as you said, and make 411 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:47.230 sure that you make time for yourself, for family, for friends? How 412 00:30:47.269 --> 00:30:49.420 do you find that balance? Well, I have a great husband. I 413 00:30:49.539 --> 00:30:56.339 have a awesome husband, and he is really like is the caboose on this 414 00:30:56.539 --> 00:31:00.700 train. So if I'm the engine, he's The caboose and he make sure 415 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:04.289 that everything is the trains are running on time. So I count that as 416 00:31:04.329 --> 00:31:08.930 a real blessing. I have twin twenty one year old daughters that are seniors 417 00:31:10.130 --> 00:31:15.930 in their college years. One is majoring in math, applied mathematics at Wentworth 418 00:31:17.009 --> 00:31:22.160 and Boston and English at Simmons College, so she's got a double major going 419 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.599 and then the other one is an engineering major at University of Massachusetts. So 420 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:32.240 they're pretty smart kids and they're pretty well balanced and they're healthy and that's all 421 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.670 you can ever ask for. So I think what I like to do is 422 00:31:34.869 --> 00:31:41.309 I like to cook for relaxation, I read a lot. I read a 423 00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:45.910 lot of different kinds of books at all different kinds of stages and I just 424 00:31:45.069 --> 00:31:48.259 try to make sure I get plenty of sleep. I like that. That's 425 00:31:48.259 --> 00:31:52.420 great and it will now that you're working for a travel company. Yes, 426 00:31:53.259 --> 00:31:57.059 you must be. You must be at least embracing travel and trying to make 427 00:31:57.099 --> 00:32:01.569 it as cost effective as possible. We're somewhere fun that you've gotten away there 428 00:32:01.609 --> 00:32:07.049 with your husband, been or family, if they could just go away with 429 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:08.809 you. Oh Yeah, they still actually, we're going to New York City 430 00:32:08.930 --> 00:32:15.170 this weekend as a family and I love this time of year in New York 431 00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:19.599 City. It's brisk. I like Brian Park, which is behind the New 432 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:23.480 York Public Library and has a huge skating rank, has all these little outdoor 433 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:29.160 shops and there's lots of little fires that they sounds kind of bizarre, but 434 00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:31.630 you can go and sit and have a glass of wine and be warm and 435 00:32:31.710 --> 00:32:37.910 be sitting outside and watching people. I'm pretty much I'll go anywhere. I 436 00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:43.990 actually like going to places I've been to before that allow me the opportunity to 437 00:32:44.109 --> 00:32:49.140 revisit those things that I really liked and then learn something new. Our family 438 00:32:50.019 --> 00:32:53.299 we go every year for a week in August to New Hampshire and it's just 439 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:58.180 a nice little place to go and I enjoy it and I look forward. 440 00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:02.089 I honestly look forward to it every single year and whether you're going to a 441 00:33:02.170 --> 00:33:06.690 lake or whatever you're doing, is just a ton of fun. So I 442 00:33:06.809 --> 00:33:12.369 just I'm very lucky that I'm healthy and everybody I know is healthy and this 443 00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:16.240 is a great place to work and I'm very excited about being at lolacom. 444 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:21.160 That's great. Well, gene, thank you so much for sharing today. 445 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.240 I think for a lot of people listening in, whether they're marketer, business 446 00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:29.430 leader, I think a lot of great takeaways in each part of this podcast 447 00:33:29.589 --> 00:33:35.230 from phocus on being an environment where you learn and continue to learn, not 448 00:33:35.390 --> 00:33:38.349 just within but in your case, also learn from some of the advisor's advisory 449 00:33:38.390 --> 00:33:43.859 work that you've done and and ultimately higher you're thinking in such a full way 450 00:33:43.900 --> 00:33:47.700 about the buyer journey with so many different influencers in that stage. Some real 451 00:33:47.859 --> 00:33:52.819 cute takeaways today. I thank you for everyone who's tuned in today and enjoy 452 00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:57.089 hearing about jeans journey herself, listen to some of the other guests that we've 453 00:33:57.130 --> 00:34:00.289 had on the marketers journey over the last number of weeks and the ones to 454 00:34:00.410 --> 00:34:02.450 come. I thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, 455 00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:07.530 I'm randy fresh and this is the marketers journey. All right, everybody, 456 00:34:07.570 --> 00:34:12.719 we really hope you enjoyed the marketers journey. Again, just there's the marketers 457 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.840 journey and apple podcast, or wherever you do. You're listening, subscribe, 458 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:20.199 leave a review if you like it, and telephone if you think they'd enjoy 459 00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:27.869 it. Okay, until next time. I hate it when podcast incessantly ask 460 00:34:27.949 --> 00:34:30.389 their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews 461 00:34:30.429 --> 00:34:35.230 are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what 462 00:34:35.309 --> 00:34:37.150 we decided to do. If you leave a review for me to be growth 463 00:34:37.230 --> 00:34:42.900 in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James At sweetfish 464 00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:46.219 Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book content based networking. 465 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:50.539 How to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a 466 00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:52.050 review, you get a free book. We both win