1240: How Tableau’s Former CMO Made Customers Smarter w/ Elissa Fink

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:09.669 Hey everyone, it is Kelsey cores with sweet fish media and we are really 2 00:00:09.830 --> 00:00:14.269 excited to share with you an episode of the marketers journey from our friends over 3 00:00:14.310 --> 00:00:19.589 at UBERFLIP. The marketers journey is a podcast dedicated to learning from senior marketing 4 00:00:19.629 --> 00:00:23.660 executives. Each week, they speak to marketers and learn whether it was luck, 5 00:00:23.699 --> 00:00:27.660 hustle or a combination of the two which propelled them to their latest position. 6 00:00:28.260 --> 00:00:32.140 Then they explore how to engage their current and future customers on a path 7 00:00:32.179 --> 00:00:38.210 that is similarly planned yet adaptive. The marketers journey features amazing conversations with marketing 8 00:00:38.250 --> 00:00:43.890 leaders who share how to attract and convert with personalization from their entire buyer journey. 9 00:00:44.490 --> 00:00:47.649 If you think you'll find the show valuable after you listen to the episode, 10 00:00:47.729 --> 00:00:51.880 just search the marketers journey and apple podcast or your favorite podcast player. 11 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:56.200 Okay, let's get into it. Hey, Lisa, thank you so much 12 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:00.200 for finding time to chat with us today and the marketers journey. Your Germany 13 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:04.390 is awesome. Their journey is so exciting and the opportunities that you got to 14 00:01:04.510 --> 00:01:10.269 see maybe just a level set for everyone tuning into the podcast. Talk to 15 00:01:10.349 --> 00:01:15.109 us about what happened for you in the last year or so. Last years, 16 00:01:15.510 --> 00:01:18.900 I have been so lucky. I actually been so lucky throughout my career, 17 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:23.340 but particularly, I say, the last twelve years. That's quite a 18 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.140 long time review that lucky. But in the last year I am I just 19 00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:32.060 just retired from tablis software. I served as their CMO and head of marketing 20 00:01:32.260 --> 00:01:34.250 for about eleven and a half years, from when they were about five million 21 00:01:34.370 --> 00:01:41.329 and revue and about thirty people in the company to literally just over a billion 22 00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:46.010 in revenue and about forty five hundred people, and so it was an incredible 23 00:01:46.090 --> 00:01:48.560 journey. And then, as I said, I would just returned at the 24 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.560 end of last year and so I've been what I call say retired, where 25 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:57.519 I've been advising companies and working with boards and doing a lot of mentoring as 26 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.000 well, and it's just been incredibly gratifying to be able to get out there 27 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:05.629 and talk to people about marketing and their journeys and where they're headed and see 28 00:02:05.629 --> 00:02:09.389 these exciting startups and young companies that are doing incredible stuff. So it's been 29 00:02:09.789 --> 00:02:14.550 just amazing. That's all. Both of those aspects are amazing and I've been 30 00:02:14.590 --> 00:02:17.580 very fortunate to be one of the lucky getting advice from you the last of 31 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:23.419 a while. OBERFLIP does. So thank valuable, highly valuable. Thank you. 32 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:29.860 Thank you. So, I mean it's successive tableau is is outstanding and 33 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:32.090 it's you know, I think one of the things that I've always admired is 34 00:02:32.169 --> 00:02:37.449 how little funding was also taken into that company. How much was it, 35 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:40.330 or how much of it was used? Gosh well, so if they took 36 00:02:40.409 --> 00:02:44.919 in five million at the very beginning and then at around two thousand and eight, 37 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.039 right before the financial ments, that right before we took another ten and 38 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:52.639 we never used any of it. So our our cofounders, and particularly our 39 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.520 CEO, cofounder, Christian Hibou, who had been in and around the VC 40 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.389 community was an analyst for a while, he was very clear that he did 41 00:03:00.509 --> 00:03:05.669 not want to give away a lot of the company and he also recognized the 42 00:03:05.830 --> 00:03:09.789 value of bootstrapping. It really forces you to be very disciplined and smart and 43 00:03:10.069 --> 00:03:14.539 treat the money like it's your own, and so you don't, you try 44 00:03:14.659 --> 00:03:16.259 really hard not to do stupid things. You don't have money to blow. 45 00:03:16.419 --> 00:03:21.460 So you really are betting, making the best bets you can and doing the 46 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:25.419 right things, and I really appreciate that and then I also as a secondary 47 00:03:25.460 --> 00:03:29.849 or maybe primary benefit, is it was good for the employees. When you're 48 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:34.210 not liquidating your you know, when you're not stretching the value your company out 49 00:03:34.210 --> 00:03:38.889 over with lots of investors and deluding yourselves, it really creates a lot of 50 00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:42.479 value for the employees and that's a great thing. That is a great thing. 51 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:46.719 So he just was amazing and had their his the right goals and mostly 52 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:50.919 it was about really making sure that we spent money wisely and grew the company 53 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.280 organically, because if people want what you've got, they'll buy it. Having 54 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:58.789 a lot of money from a VC or from investors is not a sign of 55 00:03:58.870 --> 00:04:01.430 success. It's a sign of an initial but it's not a sign of success. 56 00:04:01.430 --> 00:04:04.229 So when you have to earn the money to prove it, and that's 57 00:04:04.270 --> 00:04:09.509 what proves it, that's a great thing. So he always riled against people 58 00:04:09.509 --> 00:04:12.939 would say Yay for us, we got another funding round or we got another 59 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:15.740 and he'd be like those aren't signs of success. Those are my allstones, 60 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:20.019 sure, but that's not success. Success as signing big customers or signing customers 61 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:24.730 and hitting those are your milestones that matter. Those are the things that should 62 00:04:24.730 --> 00:04:28.009 be celebrated and I think he just imbued that in our company, in our 63 00:04:28.050 --> 00:04:30.970 culture, that that's what mattered and we became just a very customer driven company. 64 00:04:31.370 --> 00:04:34.490 That's really interesting. I first of all I commend that. I mean 65 00:04:34.649 --> 00:04:39.079 we went a long way here, Duber flipid that taking funding it. You 66 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.199 know, we're in that different world now, but we did so from a 67 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.720 position of strength. Well, that's the other big thing. It's you go 68 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.120 to get money at it from a position of strength. Absolutely what a difference 69 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.399 that makes. Yeah, absolutely, but I mean to get to not just 70 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:57.670 a billion dollar value but a billion in revenue is extremely impressive on that type 71 00:04:57.709 --> 00:05:01.350 of lean mentality. So we're if we uncock your career to getting to that 72 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:08.339 and being part of an organization where those are the values. Would you see 73 00:05:08.459 --> 00:05:13.540 that you entered there with that mindset to just spend in that lean way, 74 00:05:13.779 --> 00:05:16.579 to spend as a marketing leader in that affordable way, or was that a 75 00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:21.850 was that a culture change for you from where you would previously? I think 76 00:05:21.850 --> 00:05:26.529 I always so. I'm pretty old and so I always kind of had been 77 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:30.649 around companies that were marketing. Didn't always get the budgets we needed. So, 78 00:05:30.769 --> 00:05:32.050 but you know, and I always I like to get stuff done, 79 00:05:32.050 --> 00:05:36.439 I like to make things happen, and so I always looked at the money 80 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.439 as like though, the the more I constructed, the more I can do 81 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.120 and the more I can accomplish. So I think I've always been fairly frugal, 82 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.040 you know. Yeah, and so, and I didn't when I joined 83 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:54.269 Tableau. I actually didn't join from like you guys in Toronto. I didn't 84 00:05:54.269 --> 00:05:57.790 join from the Silicon Valley where there was a heritage or a culture of lots 85 00:05:57.829 --> 00:06:00.430 of money flowing. I joined from a company out in Washington DC and I 86 00:06:00.470 --> 00:06:03.459 had worked a lot of my career and the East Coast and some of my 87 00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:06.139 career, very little of my career in the the bay area and some of 88 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:10.500 my career in La and it just wasn't a culture of like here's all the 89 00:06:10.540 --> 00:06:13.300 resources you could ever need to do whatever you want with marketing. And I'm 90 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:15.980 not saying that's the bay area culture, but there's a lot of money flowing. 91 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:18.170 So I just kind of came to it naturally like well or small, 92 00:06:18.250 --> 00:06:20.490 we got to be scrappy, we got to be gorilla, we got to 93 00:06:20.490 --> 00:06:24.410 stretch our dollars, you know, let's use our money, the more I 94 00:06:24.490 --> 00:06:26.850 can struct it, the more I can do, the more it can accomplish. 95 00:06:26.930 --> 00:06:30.449 I just kind of had that mentality and so the tableau mentality really suited 96 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:32.920 me. I like that. It's kind of like sometimes, when you have 97 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:38.519 those parameters or those things that you have to fly in these guard rails, 98 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:42.800 sometimes it forces you into very creative ideas. You know, it really does, 99 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:45.639 and I really I think that was a good thing for us. It 100 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.069 made us tight and it made us lean and it made us be creative in 101 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:51.870 ways that maybe having lots of money it wouldn't have made us be. Forced 102 00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:56.269 us to be creative. That's amazing. Maybe you can, you know, 103 00:06:56.389 --> 00:06:59.870 just shifting gears a bit, you know, aside from the creative side, 104 00:07:00.269 --> 00:07:04.060 you obviously we're working with a company where data was key. I mean data 105 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:08.860 was the name of the game. Yeah, Weir did. Where do you 106 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:14.459 think you you got your confidence in leading a company that was going to be 107 00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:16.769 so daytomnded. You know, as they say, eat your own dog food, 108 00:07:16.769 --> 00:07:21.649 drinking champagne. What was it? A long your career path leading up 109 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:27.810 to that. The gave both the leadership at a tableau and yourself a confidence 110 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:30.560 to take that stuff that's a great question because, you know, I grew 111 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.639 up in a time that the idea of women and computer science and stem and 112 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.720 math. I was really good in math in high school but I never thought 113 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.000 of myself as that kind of person. So when I went to college, 114 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.279 I went into the College of humanities or arts and sciences, and I I 115 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:47.629 was an English major, and so I did not think of myself as that 116 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:50.949 kind of like a data person. And so when I got out of college 117 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:55.149 I you know, I was trained to do like nothing, and so I 118 00:07:55.269 --> 00:07:59.740 took a sales job with the Wall Street Journal and I liked the first couple 119 00:07:59.779 --> 00:08:01.660 of years and the second year agot the third or fourth year I got promoted 120 00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:07.339 into the big leagues and I found myself really enjoying the part of it that 121 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:11.699 was explaining the demographics and why, whilst your journal would make a good audience 122 00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:15.810 for an I love the market research of it. And I started to realize 123 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:18.449 I really love the numbers and I remember my husband saying, well, of 124 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:22.250 course you do. Every time you you go to a cut to a party, 125 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:24.850 you're like your eyes light up when you talk about facts and figures, 126 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.040 and I was like really, I couldn't know that about myself. Anyway, 127 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.439 that job kind of turned beyond a market research and I happened to find this 128 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:37.879 little company that was doing computer computers, computer databasis and software from marketers for 129 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.679 like one of the very first companies doing it, and I just fell in 130 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:46.429 love with it, segmentation and customer analysis, and I realized I decided I 131 00:08:46.710 --> 00:08:50.110 love this. I didn't love sales, and so I took a step back 132 00:08:50.190 --> 00:08:54.309 in my career and went from being like a pretty prestigious Wall Street Journal ad 133 00:08:54.470 --> 00:08:56.299 Sales Rep job with a car phone and back in the days when they were 134 00:08:56.340 --> 00:09:01.460 in your car and a credit card, to like this little this little tech 135 00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:05.059 company where I was going to be a client service representative, and a lot 136 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:07.779 of people thought I was nuts because it's like why would you do that? 137 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:11.610 But it was the best thing I ever did. I was miss removing over 138 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:15.370 to Clara touff. Yes, I was pretty mediocre as a sales rep, 139 00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:18.929 but I realized I had this passion for numbers and data and marketing and I 140 00:09:20.129 --> 00:09:22.610 found this job at Clara toss and the day I walked into that company I 141 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:26.440 knew I was home. I knew that I was in the right space for 142 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.080 me. So, you know, I just I really felt like that, 143 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.919 that sense of knowing who he and I didn't, maybe didn't even know who 144 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.559 I was, but knowing you fit and in knowing that what you love to 145 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.909 do is what that company loves to do is a really valuable thing to have 146 00:09:41.110 --> 00:09:45.309 in your career and I would encourage people to gain that alignment, gain the 147 00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:50.029 alignment between your magic, your superpower and what your company needs. It just 148 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:52.309 is only going to help your career and you're going to love your job. 149 00:09:52.470 --> 00:09:54.899 You know, you're just going to have fun every day. That's hard. 150 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:56.379 It's still hard. There still hard things to do, but you're just going 151 00:09:56.419 --> 00:10:01.899 to have more passion, more interesting. That's awesome. And the funny thing 152 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:05.299 is, I look up this on paper. Is Thinking about moving from the 153 00:10:05.419 --> 00:10:09.450 Wall Street Journal where you were up and up. Who would have got back 154 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:13.169 in? You know, one thousand nine hundred and ninety would it would need 155 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:16.649 to tech person retiring? You know, yes, s says it's such a 156 00:10:16.889 --> 00:10:22.240 such a young age versus, you know, the senior person at Wall Street 157 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.639 Journal is probably not retiring in the same way these days. Yeah, you 158 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.159 know it. You know what, it's another good lesson too. Because you 159 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.960 get a little hung up earlier your career on things like, well, I 160 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.960 work for, you know, facebook, or I work for whilst we journal, 161 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.789 and you don't take chances, like like somebody who's coming to Uber Flip 162 00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:41.590 or even to Tableau back in the day. It's a risk because you know 163 00:10:41.669 --> 00:10:45.710 you don't have that prestige that's back in you. But if you really pay 164 00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:48.710 attention to the fundamentals of a company, the problems they solve, do their 165 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.620 customers love? What they're doing, is their growth opportunity. Lean into the 166 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:58.940 growth, even if it's not yet prestigious or not yet known. In young 167 00:10:58.019 --> 00:11:01.980 and your career it's the time to take risks with companies that maybe don't have 168 00:11:03.100 --> 00:11:05.570 that brand yet and you're going to be part of the story. You're going 169 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:07.250 to be part of the growth of that. So that was a lucky thing 170 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:09.450 for me because I was a little hung up on, well, I work 171 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:13.809 for the Wall Street Journal, that's awesome, and then when I left it 172 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:18.289 was quite a you know Whoa I work for this unknown, unknown named company, 173 00:11:18.570 --> 00:11:22.200 but it was the best, like the one move in my career that 174 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.519 was undoubtedly they changed my my career and my life so much of course, 175 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.480 you know, joining Tableau even more so, but I would have never joined 176 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.919 tablow had I not made that move back, and you know, back in 177 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.549 from last ree journ of the cleric Gust. So I encourage people don't be 178 00:11:35.669 --> 00:11:39.350 hung up on the big name companies. Go for the little companies, the 179 00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:43.909 ones that clearly have something hot going on, where the customers are delighted and 180 00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:48.019 they're dissolving a real problem and that's what they're focused on. That's where you 181 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:50.419 get the growth, that's where you get the opportunity, that's where you get 182 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:52.820 the learning and that's what happened for me. So one last question before we 183 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:56.860 take a break here. You know, as much as you talk about of 184 00:11:56.980 --> 00:12:01.730 a taking a chance, you've also, we're very loyal and staying there for, 185 00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.370 as you said, almost twelve years. Yeah, I'm wondering was that? 186 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:09.570 was that something that transcended throughout your entire marketing team and and how how 187 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:15.210 do you coach other marketers listening to this who you are? Maybe it a 188 00:12:15.289 --> 00:12:18.039 different mentality of voute. Well, I got to move every couple of years 189 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.159 to move up persons, seeing that company evolved. Yeah, that's a great 190 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.039 question. Well, number one, you have to think about it more like 191 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.509 my growing. Am I changing? Am I being exposed to new stuff and 192 00:12:31.669 --> 00:12:35.509 on my learning, and so what I when I would look at my time 193 00:12:35.549 --> 00:12:39.549 at Tableau. Yeah, I mean it was growing so fast that every couple 194 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:41.990 of years it was like a new company. It was like different stage. 195 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:45.179 You know, the old rules didn't the ploy. We had in it new 196 00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:48.620 rules. So, rather than look at it like I need to move come 197 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:52.179 companies every couple of years, it's really question of am I learning something new 198 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:56.460 every couple of years and my advancing either in scope, sometimes it's not scope, 199 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:01.210 sometimes it's in seniority or amount of the depth. But really, instead 200 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:05.049 of just looking at the the superficial, is the company changing, look at 201 00:13:05.090 --> 00:13:09.490 what's changing for you, and I felt like over twelve years at tableau that 202 00:13:09.889 --> 00:13:13.960 the company was changing, I was changing, I was learning and that's what 203 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.320 matters. Now you want, of course, see movement in terms of maybe 204 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.039 you want to see title change, but even at Tableau I only had two 205 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.000 titles. I mean when I started there were no sea levels, it was 206 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.990 all vp and then when I became quote unquote sea levels, cheap marketing off, 207 00:13:28.029 --> 00:13:30.669 there was more like we're going to go public. So we better make 208 00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:33.789 you achieve, you know. So it didn't even have title change really, 209 00:13:35.230 --> 00:13:37.549 but I did have a lot of growth, and so I would encourage people 210 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.620 rather than say I got to move companies. I gotta see growth, I 211 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:46.179 gotta see change, I got to see learning and that that's the thing to 212 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:50.100 look for. And so in twelve years I never felt like I'm stuck or 213 00:13:50.139 --> 00:13:52.980 I'm not learning anything new. I really felt like, okay, man, 214 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:58.289 I'm I'm learning and I'm being the best person or the best worker I can 215 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:01.129 be, best colleague I can be. So this is still a good place 216 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:03.970 for me to stay. Plus it was great people and a great product and 217 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:09.049 great time. How did you go from five million in revenue to over one 218 00:14:09.129 --> 00:14:13.600 billion? What was the buyer journey? I'm sure there's just this obvious playbook 219 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:18.279 for doing so, though, but so I what do you think? Everyone 220 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.200 rallied around it on your team. Oh well, so, you know, 221 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.549 again, it's kind of depends on what phasire in what stage you're in. 222 00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:28.590 So when you're five million and no one's ever heard of you and there are, 223 00:14:28.789 --> 00:14:33.629 you know, in the old school way of doing things is very centralized, 224 00:14:33.629 --> 00:14:37.669 and here you are with an incredibly decentralized application that anyone can use and 225 00:14:37.710 --> 00:14:39.539 anyone can install. When it before, it was, you know, data 226 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:43.460 warehouses and big platforms. You know, that was a different playbook or different 227 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.860 way than later, even like five years later, when you're threatened to trying 228 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.779 to hit teams and departments and midsize enterprises, to ten years later, when 229 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:56.690 you're going full scale across the entire enterprise, billion, billions and billions of 230 00:14:56.850 --> 00:15:00.850 dollars of enterprises. So it very quite a bit. But I think at 231 00:15:00.889 --> 00:15:03.409 the end of the day there were two principles that I like to keep in 232 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:07.519 mind and I would remind my team constantly, and that is that number one, 233 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.679 it's always people, individuals, that you're selling to, and I would 234 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.320 even say even in the later years, we don't sell to enterprises. I'd 235 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.360 say we sell to the people and enterprises. And at the end of the 236 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.070 day, even at the beginning of the journey, it was about individual so 237 00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:28.230 when you start to think about your customers as people, you start to see 238 00:15:28.590 --> 00:15:31.350 common things that they need and they start to think about like why do they 239 00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:33.429 want to do business with you? Why do they want to know you? 240 00:15:33.950 --> 00:15:37.980 And when, I would we've talked about this. We realize well, people 241 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:39.779 want to come to your website site, they want to be they want to 242 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:43.139 know what your product can do for them. They want to be made smarter, 243 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:48.139 they want to be made better. So if you really focused on the 244 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:50.929 individual, the person, and I don't mean just like even in big enterprises 245 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:54.929 and big deals and when it's a big committee, buying committee, it's still 246 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:58.649 matters you're talking to people, individuals, that if you're focused on what they 247 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:03.090 need, which for so many of them, is I want to be made 248 00:16:03.129 --> 00:16:06.039 smarter, I want to meet be made better, I want to be made 249 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.279 faster, I want my team to be faster. It's very much it's a 250 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.360 lot easier to really focus on what are the right things to do when you 251 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:18.000 think about your customers as people sitting down. They you know, got a 252 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.710 laptop or on a phone or whatever. During the buyers journey you can really 253 00:16:21.710 --> 00:16:25.509 get a good idea and no journey. It's rare that a journey. They're 254 00:16:25.549 --> 00:16:29.269 not. They're they're practically unique, right. So you be really smart too 255 00:16:29.429 --> 00:16:33.100 about thinking about them and sort of thinking about their journeys as well. Yeah, 256 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:37.659 there's a typical path, but there's so many outlets from that path and 257 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.779 so many different directions, you better have a pretty good understanding of the different 258 00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:47.490 ways you can make them smarter and ensure that your content and your message is 259 00:16:47.809 --> 00:16:49.769 right there with them when they need to be there, according to their map 260 00:16:51.370 --> 00:16:53.649 of the journey, not your map of the journey. So like that. 261 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:57.090 I love that. Is You're talking through that. At the beginning I was 262 00:16:57.169 --> 00:17:00.129 thinking, okay, thinking about the audience and is he's putting you have so 263 00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:04.640 many different audiences, different buyers. I know a tableau you you add different 264 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:11.279 segments between enterprise and a small business customer. But but I like this idea 265 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.710 of if all paraphrase are you were saying, you know, we have to 266 00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:21.750 engage these audiences, but then we have to actually meet them smarter by delivering 267 00:17:21.789 --> 00:17:25.269 them into content. Yeah, well, like huge believer in that. That's 268 00:17:25.309 --> 00:17:27.190 why I think Weber Flip, what overclip does is so well. So well 269 00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:30.859 is so important because it's not in your control like it used to. I 270 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:34.420 mean we used to be a bunch of marketers with megaphones and just outbound outfound 271 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:37.900 and really, I used to say this all the time. This is are. 272 00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:41.539 So you know all my goal is a hundred percent free Le's inbound, 273 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:44.970 because we're just known for the place to come if you want to get smarter. 274 00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:48.210 And so I think that your content, the right kind of content at 275 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:52.609 the right time, in the right format for that buyers individual, that individual's 276 00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:57.289 journey, what their map is of how they see their future. That's the 277 00:17:57.329 --> 00:18:00.759 key. That is the key to deliver that and it's really, really hard 278 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.720 to do. It's so you do a lot of summarization that you know there's 279 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:08.119 certain segments and certain kinds of paths, but you've got to have the flexibility 280 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:12.430 to be there on an individual basis for every buyer, every prospect, every 281 00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:15.950 customer, because customers rebuy all the time too, in the right way for 282 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:22.269 that individual. So a question that's more in the weeds perhaps, but hope 283 00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:26.829 the listening can generalize this back to themselves, depending on your answer. As 284 00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:30.980 you scaled the tableau with the the reality that you had these different audiences, 285 00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:34.180 they would growing and, as you said, sometimes we were selling into teams 286 00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:40.220 or departments versus and you know, let'sten something in simple as enterprise versus small 287 00:18:40.339 --> 00:18:45.609 business. Did you have two different teams for each of those segments? One 288 00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:49.809 team that would understand how to make group, a smarter and another one focused 289 00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:53.730 on group be because sometimes those buyers are so different it's hard for us as 290 00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:59.640 marketers to think about segmenting and messaging to both. Oh yeah, absolutely. 291 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.880 Yeah, so to in the later years we did. In the beginning years 292 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.799 we didn't because actually it was really hard as a startup. That's kind of 293 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:10.670 disrupting a category. That kind of that's what we did really hard to get 294 00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:14.349 the attention of the big guys. So at the beginning it was really about 295 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:18.910 getting grassroots into literally one person buying one copy, one set of table and 296 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:22.230 then getting it to spread. And at the beginning, in the early years, 297 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:27.380 most of our business came from the SNB or midsize enterprise rather than enterprise. 298 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:32.539 And over the years the dollars shifted and so that's when we had to 299 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:36.460 get better and we did have people who started to really focus on enterprise, 300 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:40.890 really focus on supporting enterprise selling. But in the early years it was a 301 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:45.089 very phone based sales strategy. That was land and expand. So was one 302 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:49.849 person buying one license or couple licenses. That's a very personal sale. But 303 00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:55.559 then as we grew we had to rapidly be able to keep up with where 304 00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:00.359 our customers were going and over the years it definitely shifted to more than the 305 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.799 big dollars are with the enterprises. But we still love, loved our SNBS 306 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.630 and our midsize because, you know, they were just a different animal and 307 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:15.029 they took chance on tablot earlier and and it was fun. It was really 308 00:20:15.069 --> 00:20:18.869 fun working with those kind of customers because they're a little bit more a looking 309 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:22.019 for an advantage and they'll take some risks that maybe some of the larger enterprises 310 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:26.940 don't. That being said, I don't want to discribe people because even within 311 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.099 an enterprise you're going to find these people who are willing to take a chance 312 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:33.740 on a small company or a midsize company. And so don't give up on 313 00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:37.569 enterprises. Treat them like people. Find your champions, find your individuals who 314 00:20:37.569 --> 00:20:40.849 are willing to take you forward, because they'll make a huge impact on your 315 00:20:40.849 --> 00:20:44.289 business. So, but it was it was definitely challenge. We definitely did 316 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:48.730 morph into having some of our team who understand in understood enterprise really well and 317 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.559 some that continue to stay with the commercial business, particularly though, in product 318 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.039 marketing. That mattered a lot. Who really had to nail the messaging, 319 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.720 the messaging was a big deal because at the bottom, at the law of 320 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.630 the foundational level, you're selling the same message. You know you're trying to 321 00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:07.069 give them the same benefits, but above that, very close to that layer, 322 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:10.990 is like look, the reality is I work in a big, scaled 323 00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:15.630 enterprise that has got all kinds of governance and security issues and and SNB doesn't 324 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:18.269 have those issues. They want more self server. They don't even want to 325 00:21:18.309 --> 00:21:19.980 deal with a lot of ID issues. Just install it or just give me 326 00:21:21.019 --> 00:21:25.019 a a subscription or whatever. So you have to start refining your message and 327 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:27.940 ensuring that at the core, people understand what tabload benefits are, but that 328 00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:33.369 it can work in your organization. Is the part that was was the part 329 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:37.250 that you really had to start stratifying intelligently. So one last question then we'll 330 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:41.210 start to wrap up here. But as you hit on that idea of how 331 00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:45.569 important product marketing was to the messaging and understanding the human is you put it, 332 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.160 who would you say kind of governed the overall message though? Is it 333 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:56.240 product marketing, or is it the content creation teams, but we just want 334 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.920 to inform the other, or or do they have to come together? Definitely 335 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.750 say they got to come together. I think the product marketing team was really 336 00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:08.029 good about understanding how the product worked or how to had an impact on our 337 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:11.710 customers. So, like you might have some folks that were very technical about 338 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:15.539 it, you know, in development and and and they but the product marketers 339 00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:18.500 were able to take that and put it in human terms, put it in 340 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.900 terms that your prospector your customers would understand and the benefits of how they get 341 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:26.740 it and the segments that would buy it and why certain messages resonate. But 342 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:30.609 then the content team was super important in terms of being able to take that 343 00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.089 message and then push it throughout all the different kinds of content that we're going 344 00:22:36.130 --> 00:22:38.890 to be attractive to the different audiences and different segments and different people that you're 345 00:22:38.890 --> 00:22:41.769 attracting. And then, of course, you can't forget your demandgin people who 346 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:45.319 put it out through the channels. I mean that's super important that they get 347 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.680 great a content to the right audience in the right way. So I would 348 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.880 say product marketing was corded like what is the message and how do we talk 349 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.789 to these people? Content was absolutely critical for like, well, how do 350 00:22:57.910 --> 00:23:03.630 we know tell that story in an effective way, and then how to us 351 00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:07.309 to managine get that story out. The three of those groups really have to 352 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:11.509 collaborate intelligently to make sure you're producing, you're putting your effort into the best 353 00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:15.380 kind of content for the best kind of audience, because, as you know, 354 00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:19.339 Randy marketing departments end up sometimes creating way more content than is necessary and 355 00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:23.460 they often don't know what works. And so if you can get those three 356 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:30.650 groups to really collaborate well, you'll create deeply useful content in the right amount, 357 00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:36.170 which usually means lesser for lesser amounts for the right audiences. So they 358 00:23:36.289 --> 00:23:40.730 value it very highly and it requires all three of those groups really working together. 359 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.920 We have unpacked your career. We've unpacked how you want over buyers to 360 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.480 scale to a billion and revenue. But amiddle all those times, how did 361 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.960 you how did you keep saying, how did you find time for yourself? 362 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:57.309 And you alluded to your husband, you know, how did you balance that? 363 00:23:59.109 --> 00:24:02.190 It was hard. I look back now as a semi retired person and 364 00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:04.750 think to myself, I could have done that better. But you know what 365 00:24:04.910 --> 00:24:07.789 we love as a family? I've got two kids. We love to travel 366 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:11.779 and so, you know, just getting out of the office and getting out 367 00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:17.140 of your environment just refreshes you in a way that you three days a week 368 00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:21.339 away give yourself time to let go. It just refreshes you, gives you 369 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:23.059 new ideas, it gives you a new perspective, and I think so one 370 00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:26.809 of the place a couple plays, I which we were in Colombia, which 371 00:24:26.849 --> 00:24:30.049 I love. Columbia was incredible, Bogata was amazing, and then over the 372 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:33.730 summer, this last summer, we spent a month, a month in Vietnam 373 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:38.079 and Shanghai. Would Shanghai and lived in Shanghai for two weeks and an AIRBNB 374 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.640 and it was just fun to just be in this rhythm of the city and 375 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:47.279 incredible city for two weeks just living there, not quite as natives but as 376 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:51.880 just part of the community. We put our kids in a local Chinese language 377 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:53.390 school and we just had a great time. And again, it just changes 378 00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:57.630 your perspective. What I've learned since retiring is that I really wish that I 379 00:24:57.750 --> 00:25:03.390 had spent more time getting away from the office. I loved customers. I 380 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.420 love seeing customers, for sure, but also just going to conferences and talking 381 00:25:07.460 --> 00:25:11.259 to interesting people and being part of marketing groups and and just getting out there 382 00:25:11.299 --> 00:25:14.700 and just changing your perspective, taking time. I think, looking back, 383 00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:17.220 I wish I had spent more time. I mean, you always feel like 384 00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:18.380 I got so much to do, I can't leave old you haven't going to 385 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:21.690 go to that meet up, but I'm not going to go. Go to 386 00:25:21.769 --> 00:25:23.849 the meet up, go talk to people, go get a different perspective, 387 00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:27.529 go ask for advice, you know, call people up. I wish I'd 388 00:25:27.569 --> 00:25:30.769 done more of that because I think it really helps, again, that perspective 389 00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:36.000 shifting and just the input as well, just to give you just different ways 390 00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:38.759 of thinking about things. So I think that's the thing to do. That's 391 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.559 great and, you know what, you're doing a great job at doing that 392 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:47.160 now through advising, through this podcast, where I think a lot of people 393 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.349 are going to take a lot of key takeaways away. And and if you 394 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:53.029 want to take the LIASA's feedback to heart, you know, tuned in to 395 00:25:53.069 --> 00:25:57.190 all of our other podcasts and listen to the real grade marketing leaders who are 396 00:25:57.230 --> 00:26:00.390 sharing how they do it. Yeah, take tips from each other. I 397 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.740 think that's that's what marketers are very great at, is being generous with their 398 00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:08.740 ideas, and you've been just that today. I can't thank you enough and 399 00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:14.140 like all the nurse of tuned in. Thank you for tuning in and thank 400 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:17.099 you so much a Lisa thing. Thank you, Randy. Was Great. 401 00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:21.569 All right, everybody, we really hope you enjoyed the marketers journey. Again, 402 00:26:21.690 --> 00:26:25.650 just there's the marketers journey and apple podcast or wherever you do. You're 403 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:29.089 listening, subscribe, leave a review if you like it, and Tele a 404 00:26:29.170 --> 00:26:32.410 friend if you think they'd enjoy it. Okay, until next time. I 405 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:38.119 hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why 406 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.680 they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a 407 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.119 podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you leave a 408 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.869 review for me to be growth and apple podcasts, and email me a screenshot 409 00:26:48.950 --> 00:26:52.910 of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed 410 00:26:52.990 --> 00:26:56.670 copy of my new book, content based networking, how to instantly connect with 411 00:26:56.789 --> 00:27:00.829 anyone you want to know. We get a review, you get a free 412 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:02.099 book. We both win.