Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media.
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Today I'm joined by Joe Sullivan.
He's the cofounder over at Gorilla Seventy
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six. Joe, welcome to the
show. How's it going today? It's
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all good, Logan, good be
here. Awesome man. You and I
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were having some great conversations over the
last few weeks and we're both been thinking
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about this idea of how do we
create content more efficiently for our customers.
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I think there are going to be
some things, whether you work for an
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agency or you're a brand marketer,
that you'll be able to take from this
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conversation. We're going to be breaking
down this idea of content creation in in
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batches up front. But before we
get into today's conversation, Joe, give
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us a little bit of background for
folks who aren't familiar with you, like
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myself in the sweet fish team.
Are Tell us a little bit about yourself
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and what you in the gorilla seventy
six team or up to these days?
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Yeah, you got it. So, yeah, I'm a cofounder of Gorilla
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Seventy six, were we position ourselves
as an industrial marketing agency, so we
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help essentially midsize manufactures, identify the
right types of customers, creed, focus
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on them and then figure out how
to attract them, engage them and start
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real sales conversations with them. So, yeah, we've been in business for,
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I guess, about fourteen years as
of this coming May. And you
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I sort of slowly grown from the
the my business partner John and I've founded
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business in two thousand and six to
team of eighteen as of today. A
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couple new new employees just started this
morning. So awesome, man, I
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don't have to start thinking about that
employee count. That's a good thing.
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That's yeah, they had no kid. Fourteen years is no small feed.
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Absolutely thank you, will Joe.
You and I were talking about this the
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other day offline. I was sharing
some things some of the listeners of the
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show might know. You know,
traditionally at Sweet Fish we've created podcast for
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other brands. We're making this shift
now to where we're adding another service where
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we create podcasts for a specific functional
role or a specific industry. And one
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of the big shifts we've been going
through, as opposed to kind of our
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typical emo of podcast production, of
coordinating guest interviews, trying to keep kind
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of a backlog of, you know, a month, month and a half
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worth of content to stay ahead of
it. But it's been very much for
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us and the way we produce podcasts
just kind of stay a little bit ahead
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of it and through several iterations of
what we used to call media days,
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we now call forty eight hours to
industry influence, we are moving towards this
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model of a two day immersive session
with our customers to create about six months
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worth of content. And along the
same lines, you guys have been going
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through a similar shift to at least
test out this idea of doing more of
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an intensive batch creation shit of content. Can you tell us a little bit
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about some of the thinking that's gone
into that and then we'll get into some
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of the maybe pros and cons of
this as we break it down some yeah,
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for sure. So for us,
you know that the type of work
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we do for our clients and all
kind of starts with strategy and figuring out,
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you know, how are we going
to get this company from Point A
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to point B via marketing and a
big you know, a big piece of
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this is going to be sort of
leveraging the expertise and knowledge of the subject
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matter experts within these companies. Your
we work with midsize manufacturers, so it's
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a lot of times it's our team
talking to the engineers on our clients team,
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who are maybe then that you know, they in turn, are interfacing
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regularly with engineers, are technical people
and their customers end, and so they're
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the ones who, you know,
who are constantly in contact with the customer.
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They understand their problems and what those
people are trying to achieve better than
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anybody, and so it's always been
a part of our process to try to
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leverage that expertise of our client to
train into written or video or whatever kind
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of content that's going to speak to
their audience. And so what we found
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is when we start with the new
client, there's always this learning period that's
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necessary. We have to sort of
really understand their customer and what those people
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care about in the triggers that lead
them into the buying process and the problems
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they have and everything, and it's, you know, there's this this learning
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period that happens at the beginning of
a client relationship and it's just necessary for
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us to be able to do the
right work and help our clients produce the
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right content but it's also not exciting
for the client. Right they've gone through
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this. They they're hyped up about
getting started with this new marketing campaign and
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then they have to sit here and
go to this learning process and then,
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bit by bit, we're going to
start interviewing the right subject matter experts on
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their teams with our journalists, doing
rec research and publishing content incrementally as we
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finish it that's going to be used
for inbound and outbound purposes. And I
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guess what we have found, you
know, by doing this for so many
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years, is there's always this period
where, you know the clients level of
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excitement. You know, it peaks
like around the time they hire us and
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then all of a sudden it dips
for a couple months because we're busy at
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work learning their business and interviewing their
experts and starting to incrementally produce content.
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And the reality is that stuff just
takes time if you're going to do it
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well. So we kind of landed
on recently as we said, well,
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what if we could condense this process, have a more intensive sort of positioning
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and content strategy workshop with the client
and then come back a couple weeks later
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and get all the right people who, you know, we know what content
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needs to get produced. Can Get
all the right people booked on the calendar
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for the you know, a specific
time of day, bringing our journalists or
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our writers, bring a videographer with
us and just do this intensive knowledge extraction
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for a full day, or maybe
even more if needed, capture it all,
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you know, through these interviews that
are now on camera, and now
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we've got this sort of Bank of
video content, but also these interviews that
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can be transcribed, that can be, you know, turned by our writers
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into written content. And now we've
got that. You know, we're starting
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on day one with all this stuff
we can use and inbound and outbound and
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through paid media campaigns, etc.
So that's that's really the idea. I
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love it, man. I want
to dig into that first topic you mentioned
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about, you know, kind of
just the way the emotions of that post
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sale typically happen. You know it, whether you work for an agency or
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a BB Tech Company, it's at
the moment of closed one when we're celebrating,
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you know, on slack or in
the bullpen and ringing the Sales Gong
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remotely or in person, whatever the
case is, but that is the moment
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where your customer has the most potential
for buyers remorse because they have just you
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know, if they're the decision maker
on a BB purchased, whether that's content
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marketing service, a new podcast or, you know, a new sales enablement
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software, whatever it is, they're
saying, Hey, I was the flag
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bearer for this decision and said they're
most susceptible then to did I make the
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right decision? And so if just
by the nature of it, like you
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said, you guys are doing content
planning. In our case, sometimes it's
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the launch of a new podcast,
so we've tried to figure out how do
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we help people get onto a new
show where we don't have to go through
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kind of all this. Well,
what episode graphic do we how do we
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want that to look and what do
we want the Intro to say? We
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just jump right into the content creation
with the planning that goes to it.
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Tell us a little bit about,
you know, kind of what you guys
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envision as far as the customer experience
by jumping into more of the fun stuff
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really isn't part of this. Will
get into maybe some of the efficiency gains
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in a little bit, but I
think the buyers feeling about it is just
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as important as anything else. Right, totally, totally, and that's definitely
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one of the main drivers here.
So we hit we do an agency book
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club every three months here and one
of them one of the books we read.
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It's an optional thing. Some people
participate, some don't, but one
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of the books we read last year
was called never lose a customer again by
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Joey Coleman. I think Logan you're
familiar with that one, but lately,
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man, it's not. Yeah,
I fantastic. I think that even came
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up in our conversation recently, but
I know I was talking to a few
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people about it recently. But that
one of the biggest insights that sort of
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popped out in our discussion around this
book was that everybody just resonated, with
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our whole team, because we see
it is this buyers remorse, if you
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want to call it that. But
this, as I mentioned a few minutes
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ago, this this there's this big
build to launching a new marketing campaign and
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starting with, in our case,
in our clients cases, a new agency
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and there are high hopes about what's
going to happen and and then all that
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you get into the nitty gridian and
there's this period of time where that the
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clients has at Gista. I hope
I made the right choice Pas and what's
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happening in the background? I haven't
heard really much this week and the reality
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is we're in the background working hard
and learning and starting to produce things,
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but those things are take some time
produce and even when they get published.
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You know, if you think about
how search engine optimization tends to play out,
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for example, just using one example, you don't it doesn't happen overnight
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like you're building authority for a website
that might might have a very low domain
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authority to begin and and to build
credibility for it takes time. So not
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only are you know is do things
tend to be a little slow moving early
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on, but the results tend to
be a little slow moving to unless you're
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sort of proactively doing some things that
direct marketing or paid media that are going
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to drive some results in the shorter
term. So we've kind of looked at
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the situation holistically and said, what
are the things we can do to keep
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the client engaged, excited feeling that
they've made the right choice and and I
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think a big piece of that is
we just got to move faster and how
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can we create efficiencies right and get
things published and start to do some of
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the things that are going to get
to the results more quickly, because nobody
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has patients to know. They can't
sit back and wait forever and some of
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it requires that. But maybe we
can balance it right some things in the
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short term. So I love that. Man, I'm a big fan of
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Joey Coleman's book. There have heard
him on multiple podcasts and those just add
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sometimes, you know, you hear
an author on a podcast and you're like
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us and not as good as the
book. He is as good if you
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hear a podcast with him as much
as the book. Definitely recommend anyone who
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hasn't checked out that book check it
out. Whether you're in marketing or customer
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success or sales. I guarantee you
you'll pick something up from that. So
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I appreciate you share in that job. Hey, everybody logan with sweet fish
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here. You probably already know that
we think you should start a podcast if
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you haven't already. But what if
you have and you're asking these kinds of
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questions? How much has our podcast
impacted revenue this year? How is our
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sales team actually leveraging the podcast content. If you can't answer these questions,
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you're actually not alone. This is
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The marketing teams at Drift Terminus and
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sea steed dot US growth. All
right, let's get back to the show.
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You touched on efficiency there as it
relates to kind of the buyers feeling,
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but you guys have a sneaking sy
fission that it's also going to make
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your team more efficient, and so
I think kind of our first point there
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is probably best taken for other agency
leaders to be thinking about in their creation
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of content. But in this next
one, as we talk about just the
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efficiency of your own content engine,
whether it's a specific campaign or just your
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your thought leadership and brand awareness content
that is always like what are we doing
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on that? This quarter sort of
thing can help set up a foundation that
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if things do go awry throughout the
rest of the quarter or the rest of
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the half of the year, you
have some things in the work sells about,
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you know, kind of whether you're
on the agency side or the brand
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side, some of the things in
your mind, efficiency gains that marketing teams
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could could gain by this sort of
batch creation. Yeah, yeah, okay.
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So let's let's pretend you're a,
you know, custom manufacturer of some
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you know, big ticket item.
It's a complex product. You know there's
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multiple people on the buyers and that
tend to be involved that you know it's
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a three or six month by buying
process and you've got, you know,
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this this specific market market that you're
targeting with it, and you know that
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this is an you know, this
is something you're going to be pursuing on
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the sales front as an organization and
you need to put some marketing juice behind
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it to, you know, to
generate leads there and to get some activity,
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you know, happening. And so, you know, one of the
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efficiencies I think you can create is
if you say, all right, we're
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targeting this type of buyer, this
type of company, these are the individual
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buying process influencers at those types of
companies. These are the things they care
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about, the problems they have in
the questions they have. Now, who
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on yours team, who inside of
your organization, is the true expert on
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that specifically, because if you think
that way now, all of a sudden
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it's like, all right, well, this, this person is our expert
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on this topic or these couple of
people. Let's focus all of our content
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creation efforts here on what's in their
brains and let's do some intensive knowledge extraction
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with those individual people and see how
much great content we can produce by just
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getting that person on your team in
a room and talking about, you know,
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answering these questions they hear all the
time talking about the problems and different
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ways to approach it and, you
know, long term cost of ownership of
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doing something this way versus this way. And so I think when I think
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of efficiencies, it's it's as opposed
to thinking of your content strategy is we're
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going to target these ten keywords and
we're going to create a piece of content
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around each of them. It's where
are we trying to grow our business?
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WHO's the buyer? What do they
care about, and who on our team
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is the expert, and then let's
produce as much really exceptional stuff from that
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person's brain as possible in a short
period of time. Yeah, I love
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the idea of matching up that research
on, like you said, the keywords,
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but the questions being asked. What
content out there is answering those questions
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today and then going to the expert
and merging those two. You know,
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one of the things we've been doing
for these what we call forty eight hours
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to industry influence session is doing search
analysis on those keywords that are kind of
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within that theme that our customers trying
to develop their thought leadership around. And
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we might propose to them twenty different
topics, but then they might call those
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down two thousand and twelve. Because
again, it's about that matching process,
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right. It's about like here's where
we need to create content, whichever way
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you go about identifying that and then
merging that with the expertise of the person
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who really has something to say about
it. And there's some, some that
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gets left on the cutting room floor
in our own case, but still it's
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more efficient. And the other thing
I'll say too is, like you know,
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for this knowledge extraction, sometimes we
have folks that are like our CEO
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would be great as the host of
the podcast. And when we have done
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it kind of the the typical way
of like, all right, even if
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we're booking the guests for them and
they need to be available, you know,
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four times a month. We're just
talking four times a month for thirty
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minutes, because they're spread out,
they tend to get pushed and then okay,
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now we don't have any mean as
many episodes in the queue, all
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that sort of stuff. But we
found that like, Hey, we need
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your CEO for a half day session. That's actually easier to get booked and
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keep on the calendars then those for
thirty minutes sections. You. Yeah,
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it's more time. Have you guys
seen that with as you've started to set
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up some of these sessions with the
subject matter experts at your customers? Yeah,
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absolutely, it's you know, trying
to get busy people booked multiple times
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for things is just such a challenge, it really is. And then things
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get canceled. They're just's is one
more thing that could get canceled and moved
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and then it slows things down and
then the client wonders or they wonder what
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will lie. Why am I not
getting to results as fast as as we
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talked about. Well, it's because
the things we need are we need your
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team's attention. And so yeah,
sometimes when you can say hey, we're
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going to be super efficient together,
we're going to carve out a day and
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we're going to get all this stuff
done, it's really appealing, you know,
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on the client's end as well.
So yeah, I love it,
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man. So we've kind of bounced
back and forth. I think benefits if
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you're an agency, if you're you're
on the brand side. We talked about
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avoiding buyers remorse, especially for agencies, efficiency, which it applies to both
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signed. The third piece here probably
applies a little bit more to agencies,
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but it can also apply to your
marketing team and your internal subject matter experts,
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because, unless you're a MARTECH company
and you're selling to fellow marketers,
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your internal subject matter experts, whether
that's someone on your executive team, like
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your CEO, or it's people on
your product team or engineering team, that
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relationship between them and marketing is just
as important as an agency and a client.
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And that's this idea that you and
I have talked about, Joe,
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that the relationship building that can happen
through this kind of intensive, upfront batch
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creation of content. There can be
some good things as you build trust,
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as you build the working relationship,
set off on a good foot and you
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ask more of them up front,
but you're not always asking and you kind
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of from there you start just giving
like hey, we got this, Oh,
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this is ready, oh, check
this out right. Is that kind
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of your thinking too, in the
relationship between marketing, whether that's agency or
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brand, and the subject matter experts
that the contributors that you need to create
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this content? Yeah, for sure. I mean yeah, if this is
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your internal marketing person talking to one
of your engineers or an outside agency.
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Regardless of the situation, I think
it's a fantastic you know, just sort
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of open too way dialog to be
establishing and to for the subject matter experts
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to be able to understand from the
very beginning why their contribution matters and why
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it's, you know, why what's
in their brains is going to be critical
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to your marketing success, because you
can't make this stuff up if you're trying
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to produce exceptional content. It is
kind of blows my mind how many people
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are out there trying to produce content
without really interviewing the experts, because it's
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what's in the brains of the engineers, or maybe the sales people are account
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manage is the people who interface with
your customers and understand them so well.
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That is so important and so for
for your marketing person, again, whether
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that's somebody in house or outside,
consulting or agency or whatever, to just
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have to have that open dialog with
your subject matter experts to help on.
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It's a really to put the spotlight
on them and say hey, you're the
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expert I need. What's in your
head. Is a really it really is
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a great relationship building. We have
some some companies we've been working with,
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clients that have for a number of
years, and it's really cool to want
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to look at, you know,
the writers on our team and the relationship
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they've built with those people and that's
just like friends having a conversation at this
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point when they do interviews, because
they've built that rapport together. I love
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that, Joe, what you guys
are doing is really kind of falling right
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in line with what we're experimenting with, what we've kind of built our processes
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around, with our forty eight hours
to industry influence, doing six months worth
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of content in into immersive days.
You guys are moving towards US similar model
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you mentioned. You have some clients
set up right now. Jury is out
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a little bit on is it going
to yield these kind of three main benefits
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we talked about today? Maybe you
and I'll do a follow up episode and
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we can talk about some more that
we've done. I've heard some good feedback
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from Laurie Richardson at Women Sales Pros
and Chris Carolyn, who's one of our
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cohost on the manufacturing show with metal
analysis group. But we'll see. This
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is a really interesting conversation. When
you mentioned you guys were moving towards something
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very similar to us, I thought
and we got to kind of unpack this
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in our thinking because it could probably
benefits other folks. So I really appreciate
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you sharing your thoughts and experience so
far. Joe. If anybody listening to
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this would like to ask some follow
up questions of you or just stay connected,
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follow along with some of your great
content, which I know you guys
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put out gobs of. What's the
best way for them to reach out and
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stay connected? Yeah, you're welcome
to email me directly. Joe At gorilla,
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seventy Sixcom, gorilla like the animal, and then seven Sixcom, and
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I would also encourage you to go
to our learning center, gorilla something sixcom
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learn. We publish insights weekly.
That's really just all there to try to
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help help you figure out how to
grow through marketing. So I love it.
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Man Joe, thank you so much
for our great conversation and a great
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episode on the show. I appreciate
it. Man. Yeah, thanks having
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to Logan. I hate it when
podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews,
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00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:41.890
but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're
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00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:44.769
trying to grow a podcast audience.
So here's what we decided to do.
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00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:48.849
If you leave a review for me
to be growth and apple podcasts and email
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00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.160
me a screenshot of the review to
James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send
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00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.519
you a signed copy of my new
book, content based networking, how to
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00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.759
instantly connect with anyone you want to
know. We get a review, you
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00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:00.880
get a free book. We both
win.