1224: Understanding the Human Brain for Better B2B Storytelling w/ James Soto

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:11.949 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:11.990 --> 00:00:16.910 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:17.070 --> 00:00:21.390 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:25.300 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:33.939 sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to beb growth, a daily podcast for B 6 00:00:34.060 --> 00:00:38.369 TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck 7 00:00:38.450 --> 00:00:42.369 and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 8 00:00:43.009 --> 00:00:47.009 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:47.609 --> 00:00:51.479 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're 10 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:57.000 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BTB companies 11 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:00.439 in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweetish 12 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:03.000 media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the 13 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:07.950 CO hosts of the show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 14 00:01:07.150 --> 00:01:11.790 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the 15 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:15.189 ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 16 00:01:15.790 --> 00:01:26.140 Just getting well. Maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to be 17 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:30.659 tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. I'm joined today by 18 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.209 James Sodo. He is the founder and CEO over at Industrial James, welcome 19 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:37.450 to the show, man. How's it going today? Thanks for having me 20 00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:40.890 here, Logan. Absolutely man. So we're going to be talking about the 21 00:01:41.010 --> 00:01:44.049 primitive brain, we're going to get a little bit scientific, we might drop 22 00:01:44.170 --> 00:01:49.000 some dopamine oxytos in those sorts of things today in the conversation and how we 23 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.480 leverage those realities in marketing and how we face them and maybe where we're getting 24 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:57.560 some things wrong. Before we jump into that topic, though, man James, 25 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.400 give us a little bit of background on yourself and what you and the 26 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.549 industrial team or up to these days. Hey, thanks. So, Logan, 27 00:02:04.989 --> 00:02:09.110 I'm an industrial born digital the rate, or born industrial, raise digital. 28 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:15.469 I came up to the S as we're converting from analog digital cellular networks. 29 00:02:15.509 --> 00:02:20.659 Got Recruited by the largest industrial directory, you know, just as really 30 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:23.620 yahoo and Google were forming, and so, as you know, let's say 31 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:27.860 that you think of the yellow page world going to digital. I was there 32 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:31.050 for that process and and I actually did it, not from the consumer side, 33 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:35.330 but I was on the industrial side and how people changed in, sourced 34 00:02:35.449 --> 00:02:39.129 and went digital. So a massive opportunity in the market formed industrial strength marketing, 35 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:44.599 which now is three brands, industrial the agency, Industrial Marketercom, which 36 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:50.400 is really our brand platform for creating a community of industrial marketers. And and 37 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:54.840 then there's just me. I'm out there to really help folks make marketing the 38 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:59.750 strength of their business and I do things like shows and speak and and fun 39 00:02:59.789 --> 00:03:02.229 stuff like that, because, you know, we're thirty Plus Person Agency and 40 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:07.310 the team wants to be the heck out of the office. So just talking 41 00:03:07.509 --> 00:03:09.270 real talk there, man. I love it. I think a good jumping 42 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:14.819 off point for this conversation is talking a little bit about why our brains are 43 00:03:15.259 --> 00:03:19.939 wired for story. As we get into this conversation about the primitive brain, 44 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:23.180 what are some of the realities that sometimes we ignore as marketers, especially in 45 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:27.060 be to be want to kick us off there, man. Yeah, I 46 00:03:27.210 --> 00:03:30.090 think in the context, like right through the Lens of marketing, you know, 47 00:03:30.969 --> 00:03:34.370 is what I think I can help with here. And and there's just 48 00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:38.009 some great references as well. So we all know and we hear a lot 49 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:43.120 about like breaking through the noise. And we have a deluge of content and 50 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.000 and if you look at it, the scale at which we're producing content, 51 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.879 we are just exposed. We're just checking out. It's over saturation. And 52 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:57.189 and really, in essence, why it's important to understand the primitive brain and 53 00:03:57.389 --> 00:04:01.669 marketing is you have to understand how we work. And and so, in 54 00:04:01.870 --> 00:04:08.150 essence, what science is telling us is that story and the empathy it creates. 55 00:04:08.389 --> 00:04:14.500 In my opinion, and the science absolutely supports story will save marketing, 56 00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:18.220 it will allow us to break through and it will allow us to deliver engaging, 57 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:25.769 useful and contextually actionable experiences for people in a way that they really connect 58 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:30.569 to and empathize with. So so really what that means is that our brains 59 00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:35.850 are hardwired to dramatize, to imagine and to be pulled into great stories. 60 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:41.199 And I think you know, I've read some great books and storytelling edge and 61 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.160 you'll get a lot of cues from that here. Obviously we hit youtube and 62 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.040 stuff like that to learn nowadays. But but in essence, I think when 63 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:51.279 you think about all the signals that we get. You know, I think 64 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:56.550 the best characterization I heard is that you know, when you're sitting down and 65 00:04:56.949 --> 00:05:02.389 you're listening to someone and they're telling you their story and it's emotional, it's 66 00:05:02.430 --> 00:05:10.620 it's just heartbreaking or it's inspirational, and also in your room full of people 67 00:05:10.660 --> 00:05:16.220 and all of a sudden you just can't hear anybody else, and that's actually 68 00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:21.329 your primitive brain in action, your reticular activating system, that part of the 69 00:05:21.449 --> 00:05:27.170 brain that really acts as a filter. And so so that cocktail effect, 70 00:05:27.170 --> 00:05:30.970 that cocktail party effect, is that moment when you're, let's say, talking 71 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:33.889 to, you know, a new friend or someone you may want a date, 72 00:05:34.370 --> 00:05:38.680 and also in someone says your name, boom and you can hear that. 73 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:43.319 Your brains act she wired to get those interruption signals and to be brought 74 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.480 in. But the whole point as markers, as we want to bring them 75 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.990 into story, because that essentially, you know, that is such a brain 76 00:05:50.110 --> 00:05:54.149 lights up. If you look at you know, look you actually look at 77 00:05:54.149 --> 00:05:58.189 studies of the brain when you hear stories, are brains literally light light up 78 00:05:58.310 --> 00:06:01.189 on Scans. And what influence is that? Is that the RAS, or 79 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:06.300 reticular activating system, which it one of the things that it does. Influences 80 00:06:06.339 --> 00:06:13.620 the production of oxytocin and Oxytosin is the empathy drug. So when you're you 81 00:06:13.699 --> 00:06:16.579 know, you know I tell my story often, you know, to my 82 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:20.569 team, about why our core values or what they are, and what I 83 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:25.490 believe and you know, in essence personally, is to make people better for 84 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:28.850 having known and or work with you and you know, as an agency, 85 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:31.209 the better those that design making move the world. I tell him about the 86 00:06:31.250 --> 00:06:34.600 story about when I was writing my business plan because I was competing for a 87 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:39.120 big segment of the business and a lot of people are counting on me to 88 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:42.279 have a job the next day if I won that segment of the business. 89 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.470 I sat down on my parents table. I was struggling, I was you 90 00:06:46.550 --> 00:06:48.670 know, I had just had a daughter. She was colicky and I had 91 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:50.550 to leave. As they can, I just come to your house and just 92 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:55.350 write my business plan and my father went out for a bike ride, my 93 00:06:55.430 --> 00:07:00.509 mom was working around the place and I started on my business plan and I 94 00:07:00.629 --> 00:07:03.660 had a knock on the door and it was a police officer and he told 95 00:07:03.660 --> 00:07:08.860 me my father was struck a cycling and while I was fighting for my job, 96 00:07:09.259 --> 00:07:11.740 fighting for people to get, you know, knowing if they're going to 97 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:15.379 have a job. You know, my father was there dying and the ultimately 98 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:17.970 succome and died in the hospital. That was day one of my business. 99 00:07:18.610 --> 00:07:24.689 And at that funeral, you know, I heard, you know, from 100 00:07:24.730 --> 00:07:27.970 a gentleman that drove. He worked with in manufacturing for years. He drove 101 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.839 because I drove eight hours here to tell you I sold your dad. I 102 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:32.720 didn't always get his business, but he was the best guy I ever met. 103 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.759 Work with him in and out of business for four decades and I came 104 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.920 here to tell you that. Now. That told me that the end of 105 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.230 the day, it's not about what you do, but it's making people better 106 00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:48.829 for having known indoor work with you. And that's the power of story and 107 00:07:49.029 --> 00:07:54.829 that's what is true to me. That influenced me, but it's also what 108 00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:58.899 you know. I understand that that's an you know it's a very personal story, 109 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:03.500 but did you get drawn in? Absolutely, man. I mean first 110 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:09.060 I have to just tip my cap to you, James. I appreciate the 111 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:13.009 vulnerability and the willingness to share that, that story. Second of all, 112 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:16.850 my condolences for your loss, even though it's a good time removed and I 113 00:08:16.970 --> 00:08:20.810 know you know we're not going down that trail, but your willingness to share 114 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:24.370 that story with with your team, share it with listeners here. I mean 115 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:28.319 so many listeners of this show have heard before. Okay, you you have 116 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.039 to deploy, imput the in your marketing. You have to make the customer 117 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:35.559 the hero of the story that you tell. If if they're like me and 118 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.759 they listen to a lot of the content from Donald Miller and story brand, 119 00:08:41.470 --> 00:08:45.870 but I can guarantee you other guests who have shared that same sort of good 120 00:08:45.950 --> 00:08:50.350 reminder will not remember it from those guests as much as they just heard it 121 00:08:50.470 --> 00:08:54.549 from you. Because of that that story. I was reading a book just 122 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:58.580 last night is picking up on chapter three of captivate from Vanessa van Edwards, 123 00:08:58.899 --> 00:09:03.779 who I heard on another one of the shows that we produced and got me 124 00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:07.980 digging into our book, and she mentioned that that conversations and stories the same 125 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:13.289 way. What we are drawn into are the highs and lows, those emotional 126 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:18.450 valleys where we're feeling empathy or we're feeling excitement. Those are the memorable points 127 00:09:18.529 --> 00:09:22.330 and if your marketing is just kind of coasting along in the middle and it 128 00:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.039 feels like that kiddy ride of yeah, I'm kind of telling you some things, 129 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.840 right, but there are no highs and lows and and those sorts of 130 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:35.159 things that that dopamine of those highs, for instance, triggers us to remember 131 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.470 them. And I think that's pretty applicable here to this conversation about the primitive 132 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:45.669 brain. Right, yeah, and and so it's fascinating. And you know, 133 00:09:45.830 --> 00:09:48.350 I don't. I think you know. And telling your story you have 134 00:09:48.470 --> 00:09:52.710 to be, you know, authentic, right. And and and let me 135 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:54.220 tell you, I hate that word because everybody says that, you know, 136 00:09:54.340 --> 00:09:58.220 to me and it becomes jargon. And I heard from someone where they said, 137 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:01.580 you know, it's like what your mom told you when you're a kid. 138 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:05.899 It's like, Hey, James, just be yourself. And so I 139 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:07.210 think know, when we talked about this, we talked about the brain, 140 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:11.409 we talked about octoxytoasting and and do openmine and the other part of things that 141 00:10:11.730 --> 00:10:16.129 when you leave that tribe, that meth and it method of how we passed 142 00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:20.090 on information over the years through story, before we wrote, before hieroglyphs, 143 00:10:20.169 --> 00:10:22.679 before all of that, you know that the other side of this, when 144 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.080 you are, when you become, you create that empathy. You create a 145 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:33.840 tribe, you create trust and attention and you become one. The empathy is 146 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.789 not just you got my attention, you got me with you. I am 147 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:46.350 I am rooting for you to be the hero of this story. That's that's 148 00:10:46.389 --> 00:10:48.549 what it is. And and and and if you are in that tribe, 149 00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:52.659 and when you leave that tribe, this this is for real reasons, because 150 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:56.659 you know, you get you know, cortisols of stress are you. You 151 00:10:56.179 --> 00:11:03.940 get left behind by the pride that that lions is stressed, its stress. 152 00:11:03.100 --> 00:11:09.809 So so it's all about our are in a survival instinct to be a community. 153 00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:18.250 Debate. Bring be a tribe, become part of our brand, everybody. 154 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:20.360 We had to take just a minute today to tell you about our good 155 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.679 friend Donald Kelly. If you're not aware, he's the host of the sales 156 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.080 evangelist podcast and for over one two hundred episodes he's been interviewing the world's best 157 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.309 sales experts, sellers, sales leaders and entrepreneurs who share their strategies to succeed 158 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:41.110 in sales. One of my favorite episodes on his podcast is episode four. 159 00:11:41.389 --> 00:11:45.830 Look for impossible to inevitable in the headline. If you're not yet subscribed. 160 00:11:45.950 --> 00:11:48.860 Just search sales evangelist. Wherever you do, you're listening. All right, 161 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:54.460 let's get back to the show. Yeah, I like that you're bringing up 162 00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:56.980 the concept of the the tribe, as we talked about story the role of 163 00:11:58.059 --> 00:12:01.769 empathy here. Before we hopped on, you were sharing with me some interesting 164 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:07.169 things that jumped out to you from a recent edleman study about where that next 165 00:12:07.169 --> 00:12:13.090 step of not just people deciding to give their attention but then to give their 166 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:18.080 trust. Speak a little bit on where the the concept of the tribe and 167 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.519 trust takes place, because I think everyone listening to this will recognize that getting 168 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.279 some attention is only part of the battle. If you don't have trust and 169 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.990 retain that attention, then it's really all for not so kind of what are 170 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:35.269 those next steps? What jumped down to you in that study that you wanted 171 00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:37.070 to share with listeners today? Man, yeah, I think there's two pieces. 172 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:41.070 There was there was definitely an ettleman study in there, well well respected 173 00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:45.340 agency. They're really looking at, you know, that notion of trust US 174 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:48.980 and authority, amongst other things, and also in just just researching, doing 175 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:52.580 things like podcasts and Youtube, you know, and looking at you know as 176 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.899 we, you know, in our capacity, my capacity as an industrial marketer 177 00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:01.330 and my agency, we're realizing that, you know, like podcasts and videos 178 00:13:01.370 --> 00:13:07.970 are a hack. They're outperforming all other forms of content like combined in terms 179 00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:13.639 of activating people, like they remember things more, and and so what what? 180 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.519 You know? I saw a study that, like you know, like 181 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:22.120 it was literally the they trust. People Trust an influencer over a brand. 182 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.000 Why? Because all other stories, all that empathy, and so the edleman 183 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:31.309 study really just yen create, just another data point that said, ultimately, 184 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:39.149 what what people trust are people just like me. And when we're trying to 185 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:45.220 market to a CEO, maybe we need to start putting stories literally people, 186 00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:50.059 case studies, but really authentically, not highly produced, but people just like 187 00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:54.740 me with their issues. And the second thing the study found is that second 188 00:13:54.860 --> 00:14:01.570 to people just like me were experts, and that's company industry experts. So 189 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:05.730 it's no wonder why we are in the age of authority and and and and 190 00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:13.360 the competition for attention, because we're seeing seeking trust as as an outcome as 191 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.879 marketers. So there's no there's no mystery why we're trying to create contextually engaging, 192 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.549 useful, actionable you know, experiences, deliver value, but get real, 193 00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:30.629 even if it's having to take the risk and put yourself out there to 194 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:35.710 even tell your story. And so that's, I think, what's what's really 195 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:41.139 really important, you know, and I think the the second thing that, 196 00:14:41.500 --> 00:14:45.419 you know, we talked about before we started was, you know, another 197 00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:48.019 study that went back years ago with the New York Times, and they look 198 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:50.940 at the home page of the New York Times. People figure out why our 199 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.769 things are going viral or not, and what the study really showed is that, 200 00:14:56.169 --> 00:14:58.409 you know, people really gravitate towards the extremes. Something that make some 201 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:05.129 Super Mad, angry, feel super bad. They remember that it goes viral. 202 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:09.200 Often things that make you feel super happy or great or you for it. 203 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.759 That's opening right. Those things tend to go viral, and everything in 204 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:18.240 between, the extremes, are what you're remembered for as a brand. We 205 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.870 consider ourselves all as the brand, right, and everything in between is forgettable. 206 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:26.389 They'll remember when you make them feel great, but but when you make 207 00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:31.269 you feel bad. And so that's that's really the mandate we have as marketers 208 00:15:31.309 --> 00:15:33.710 and as a brand, and it comes all the way down to how our 209 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.980 wires absolutely man there's a couple things I just wanted to kind of reiterate from 210 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.820 what you said that I pulled out the podcast episode I was mentioning on the 211 00:15:43.899 --> 00:15:46.659 customer experience podcast. Will Link to that episode in the show notes where I 212 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:52.289 heard Vanessa van Edwards and got keyed into her book. They had done some 213 00:15:52.570 --> 00:15:56.330 research from her group the Science of people, about the fact that Oxytocin, 214 00:15:56.690 --> 00:16:00.210 you know, which normally hits the brain when we shake hands, when we 215 00:16:00.330 --> 00:16:04.480 touch right it is that trust factor, that human connection. It can actually 216 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:08.679 be triggered when we're looking into the eyes of someone else over video, and 217 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:14.080 so just think about that in the power of video content that you're putting out 218 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.230 from the people within your company so that they can make that human connection again. 219 00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:22.909 There's scientific evidence to this stuff, you know, and also one of 220 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:26.789 the stats that I throw out there a lot of times with marketers that I'm 221 00:16:26.789 --> 00:16:30.070 talking to about their podcast strategy, whether we're helping them or just giving them 222 00:16:30.110 --> 00:16:36.860 some pointers, is that people listen to typically eighty five percent or more of 223 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.659 every podcast episode that they start. And you think most podcast episodes are twenty 224 00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:42.100 to thirty minutes, unless it's Joe Rogan. It's way longer than that. 225 00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:48.009 But just try and think of any other medium where people are spending that much 226 00:16:48.049 --> 00:16:52.129 attention and hearing that voice and connecting the story. And obviously there's a great 227 00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:56.690 way to to incorporate story even in an interview based show. We were talking 228 00:16:56.730 --> 00:17:00.169 as we were kind of mapping out our our talking points framework here, even 229 00:17:00.330 --> 00:17:03.240 though it's an interview for kind of the story ARC. Let's talk about the 230 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.960 while, let's talk about empathy. Let's kind of bring it home with some 231 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.359 resolution and some next steps in this conversation. And the other thing I think 232 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.240 that is applable for marketers in that, like me, effect, I saw 233 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.109 some research from Gong dot io a while back talking about this huge pitfall for 234 00:17:19.190 --> 00:17:25.470 sales people using the wrong sort of references, testimonials and case studies. Because 235 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:30.019 if you're selling to a fifty person company it maybe it's the same technology, 236 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.059 maybe it's the same application, but you send them a case study for a 237 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.900 fortune five hundred company, automatically there's just no disconnect. It doesn't matter the 238 00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:41.859 value that you delivered and everything that they're raving about you, because those people 239 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:47.369 aren't like them. And therefore I think the lesson there for marketing and sales 240 00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:51.650 enablement and folks that are putting those sorts of case studies into their sales people's 241 00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:55.329 hands. Is Ask your sales team where do we have some gaps? Where 242 00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:57.799 are you getting that? Hey, I want some social proof and we don't 243 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:03.240 have any content ready to deliver that, like me story to that potential buyer. 244 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.200 What other advice do you want to leave with with marketers today, either 245 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.240 on that point or kind of rounding out this conversation around story, empathy and 246 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.549 Building Trust as a brand? James, I think the transition to storytelling, 247 00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:22.470 it begins with questioning how we market and I think the advice that I would 248 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:30.700 give would be, if really considered doing things in the context, if they 249 00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:33.299 get what they want somewhere or another, I'm going to get what I want 250 00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:37.099 and and I think that, you know, we hear hey, value, 251 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:41.220 value, value, value, and that's great and again that will be jargon 252 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:45.089 pretty soon, but I really think it's not just hey, how do I 253 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.970 do value? And I think you got to go you got to go next 254 00:18:48.009 --> 00:18:52.210 level. You really have to try to you know, to know someone is 255 00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:56.279 to love them and and I think you really have to go in with the 256 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:03.799 heart. You know the heart of of of service and I think if you 257 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:08.839 have that heart, you have you can really question yourself and I think, 258 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.630 I think ultimately that's what will break through. It's hard, it's hard, 259 00:19:14.069 --> 00:19:17.950 but but I think that's it. I couldn't agree more, James. Just 260 00:19:18.349 --> 00:19:21.150 from the moment we hopped on today I could tell we were like minded in 261 00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:23.660 so many ways. And you're reminding me of an episode we did a few 262 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:27.900 weeks back with Kathleen booth talking about we should we start ungating all of our 263 00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:32.460 content, or a lot of it, and the thing that connects to our 264 00:19:32.539 --> 00:19:37.660 conversation today is it makes you think long and hard. Is this content really 265 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:41.569 delivering value, or am I just trying to get that email address right? 266 00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:45.809 It isn't that what content marketing is supposed to be about? That we will 267 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:49.130 attract people, we will, we will gain their trust and they will therefore 268 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:53.799 or give us their information, allow us to give them more, to speak 269 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.559 to them more, to stay engaged with them, to be on their radar. 270 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.480 But it's not just about how can I trick them into giving us our 271 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.319 email? I think that's one of the wrong turns we've taken and you bring 272 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.750 it home really well, thinking about it. Am I approaching this much like 273 00:20:08.269 --> 00:20:15.670 the true leadership is Servant Hood. True marketing should be servanthood with delivering value. 274 00:20:15.710 --> 00:20:18.950 How am I serving these folks? Because the more that I give it 275 00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:22.700 is going to come around, and sometimes that takes a willingness to invest in 276 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:26.180 the long game. And so we can have a whole conversation that how to 277 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:30.259 do that and then managing expectations and quarterly okay, ours, and all those 278 00:20:30.259 --> 00:20:33.180 sorts of things. But I've really enjoyed this conversation, James. If anybody 279 00:20:33.259 --> 00:20:37.730 listening to this wants to take a next step, ask some follow up questions 280 00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:40.890 of you or just stay connected, find some of the content that you guys 281 00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:45.569 are putting out. You mentioned doing some some video or written content somewhere. 282 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:48.210 Where can they find you? Where can they stay connected? Man, yeah, 283 00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:52.119 so, so James Soto Sooteo on Linkedin is a great place to find 284 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.240 me. One of the things I've been I've been doing and directing folks towards, 285 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:03.480 is a website we created called get marketing readycom and it's really we do 286 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.789 an assessment to really help folks honestly, have a humble pie moment, to 287 00:21:07.950 --> 00:21:14.549 really understand on dimensions of brand awareness? Are they actually able to articulate their 288 00:21:14.670 --> 00:21:18.190 true value? You so they actually know the key measures of success relates to 289 00:21:18.309 --> 00:21:19.900 marketing and performance. So, you know, one of the things we're doing 290 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:25.660 is we're realizing, we're even questioning for we even get to trying to tell 291 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:29.420 stories. Are we ready for marketing and and are we really doing it in 292 00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:32.700 the right context? So that's that's one thing we're really geeking out about that 293 00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:37.089 we're interested in getting feedback on and we actually think we can actually productize it 294 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:40.650 at some point or or turn it into actually a high value service for folks. 295 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:44.289 So those are the things that we're up to. But Yeah, love 296 00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:47.960 to connect on Linkedin up the lift folks up. Love to see their feeds 297 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.160 and stories themselves. So let's keep seeing each other stories. That'd be great. 298 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:53.960 Absolutely. Man. On that note, I just have to say thank 299 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.559 you again for sharing that personal story to to not only make the point that 300 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.230 you are making there, but I feel like you know I know you better. 301 00:22:02.269 --> 00:22:04.190 Hopefully listeners do as well. So thank you for that. Thank you 302 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.670 for the time today. Really appreciate you being on the show, James. 303 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:14.390 Thank you, I appreciate it. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their 304 00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:17.819 listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews are 305 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:22.059 enormously helpful when you're trying to grow podcast audience. So here's what we decided 306 00:22:22.099 --> 00:22:23.819 to do. If you leave a review for be to be growth in apple 307 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:29.859 podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James At streeetfish Mediacom, 308 00:22:30.170 --> 00:22:33.490 I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, content based networking, 309 00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:37.170 how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, 310 00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:38.450 you get a free book. We both win.