Feb. 14, 2020

1213: 3 Keys to Lead an Effective Marketing Team w/ Seth Elliott

In this episode we talk to , Chief Marketing Officer at . Resources mentioned:  Now you can more easily search & share your audio content, while getting greater visibility into the impact of your podcast. Check out Casted in...

In this episode we talk to Seth Elliott, Chief Marketing Officer at Gtmhub.


Resources mentioned: https://gtmhub.com/b2b-growth


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:10.429 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:10.669 --> 00:00:15.910 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:15.990 --> 00:00:21.109 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:21.109 --> 00:00:31.339 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:36.170 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:36.170 --> 00:00:40.090 before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:40.170 --> 00:00:44.409 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:44.409 --> 00:00:48.969 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:49.009 --> 00:00:53.840 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 10 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.399 building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:02.000 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.230 and I'm also one of the CO hosts of this show. When we're 13 00:01:04.269 --> 00:01:08.109 not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of 14 00:01:08.189 --> 00:01:11.790 our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we 15 00:01:11.829 --> 00:01:18.230 attempt to take over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into 16 00:01:18.230 --> 00:01:26.579 the show. Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet 17 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:30.459 fish media. Today I'm joined by Seth Ellie that he is the chief marketing 18 00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:33.650 officer over at GTM. Hub Seth, how's it going today, sir, 19 00:01:33.969 --> 00:01:37.569 it's going great. Thanks, awesome. I am excited to chat with you. 20 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:42.290 You guys are experts in Okrs, something that we're rolling out here on 21 00:01:42.450 --> 00:01:46.129 the team at sweet fish and we're going to be talking about not just okay 22 00:01:46.209 --> 00:01:49.159 ours, but managing and effective marketing team. You know, we are early 23 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.000 in the year. Folks are starting to see where are some of their New 24 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.719 Year's resolutions and their their beginning goals, or maybe they're still setting some of 25 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.400 their two thousand and twenty goals. So I think it's a very timely discussion 26 00:02:00.430 --> 00:02:04.670 for us to have today to put some context to it. Those sets. 27 00:02:04.670 --> 00:02:07.189 I would love for you to share with listeners a little bit about yourself and 28 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:08.789 what you and the team at GTM are up to these days. Sure, 29 00:02:08.909 --> 00:02:14.349 that's great. So my background is, I don't know, twenty plus years 30 00:02:14.509 --> 00:02:19.740 now in the startup industry, primarily tech focused, but I've spent a great 31 00:02:19.780 --> 00:02:25.139 deal of time a cross industry types and industry sets as an executive, everything 32 00:02:25.219 --> 00:02:31.569 from specially pharmaceuticals and cosmetics on one hand, to mobile activation, consumer mobile 33 00:02:31.930 --> 00:02:37.490 and now gtm hub on the other. And I've held rolls at the executive 34 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:40.969 sweet level, primarily a CMO, but also I've served of Chaz Strategy Officer, 35 00:02:42.449 --> 00:02:46.400 as Chief Operating Officer and even as as president in the past. So 36 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.560 I have kind of a broader review as to how teams interact with one another 37 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.240 and what that means in regards to managing and motivated them at the at the 38 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:59.710 executive and then the team lead level, which is, I think, particularly 39 00:02:59.789 --> 00:03:04.870 relevant as to why both GTMM pub wanted me to come there and why I 40 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:08.509 chose to go to GTM hub. At GTM hub, what we really are? 41 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:14.740 We're as softwares of service ASSASS company and we are delivering a platform for 42 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:19.780 business outcome success. That business outcome success, which sounds kind of, you 43 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:23.300 know, maybe a little ambiguous in nature, is founded upon what we have 44 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:30.530 developed as the most powerful OK ours software platform in in the world, in 45 00:03:30.569 --> 00:03:35.569 our opinion, and that's what we key off of to help our clients deliver 46 00:03:36.090 --> 00:03:39.569 accelery to growth across their organizations. I love it and, as I mentioned 47 00:03:39.650 --> 00:03:44.599 here in the intro seth the Oka our methodology is something that we've been digging 48 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:49.840 into lately. For anybody WHO's not familiar with the OKA our methodology, can 49 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:52.919 you give us just kind of the three thousand hundred and sixty second definition there, 50 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.349 just for context for anybody who might not yet know that acronym? I 51 00:03:55.430 --> 00:03:58.710 think a lot of listeners do, but I think it's worth just a quick 52 00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:00.830 pause there. Yeah, sure, and I think you're right. I think 53 00:04:00.830 --> 00:04:03.030 a lot of listeners probably do, because it's just really gained more and more 54 00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:08.669 momentum and in the last year or so. But Ok ours stands for objectives 55 00:04:08.710 --> 00:04:14.539 and key results. It's a it's a methodology that was pioneered originally by Andy 56 00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:18.860 Grove at Intel quite some number of years ago. At the time, John 57 00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:24.290 Dore from Kleiner Perkins, the Venture Capital Fund, worked at Intel and when 58 00:04:24.329 --> 00:04:27.569 he then went over to kind of Perkins, he kind of ported the okay 59 00:04:27.689 --> 00:04:31.850 ours methodology with him and he then tried to persuade a number of their portfolio 60 00:04:31.930 --> 00:04:36.529 companies of the value of using OK ours. Most notably Google. So Google 61 00:04:36.569 --> 00:04:42.680 adopted OK ours as a management methodology and then had a great deal of success 62 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.480 using it. It's spread its way to a certain degree through Silicon Valley. 63 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:50.439 Not So long ago John Dore wrote a book called measure what matters about Ok 64 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:54.990 ours, among other things, and the success that Google and other companies and 65 00:04:55.029 --> 00:04:59.029 organizations have had, and that's kind of snowballed and so it's become much more 66 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:03.389 prominent and and there are large number of people adopting the okaurs methodology and it's 67 00:05:03.470 --> 00:05:08.899 designed to accelerate the growth and bridge the gap, and this is where we 68 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:13.459 really come in, bridge the gap between strategy and execution for companies and other 69 00:05:13.540 --> 00:05:17.420 organizations. Yeah, absolutely. I mean without execution you can have strategy coming 70 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:23.329 out your ears and really no success. So what we try to do here 71 00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:25.850 on the show set, as as you and I have talked about, as 72 00:05:25.889 --> 00:05:30.410 give folks some practical things that they can use in execution. The first thing 73 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.610 I know you wanted to share with listeners on this topic of managing and effective 74 00:05:33.649 --> 00:05:38.920 marketing team is using data to align marketing teams. You know, we talk 75 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:44.319 a lot about the data driven marketer and using data for better marketing outcomes, 76 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:48.120 but we're usually talking more about what we're doing to face the the end customer 77 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:53.069 or our future customers. Tell us a little bit about what you guys see 78 00:05:53.149 --> 00:05:57.910 the role of data in aligning marketing teams internally. Sure, and I think 79 00:05:58.029 --> 00:06:00.149 for us, when we talk about alignment, we don't think of it even 80 00:06:00.389 --> 00:06:04.500 so much as just aligning the internal marketing team, although clearly that's some portant 81 00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:10.100 important but aligning the marketing team in the context of the organization as a whole 82 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:15.620 and amongst their other colleagues. And one real important telling point on that subject 83 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:21.089 is that only about nine percent of managers say that they can rely on colleagues 84 00:06:21.329 --> 00:06:27.490 and other units most of the time, and that's a real big telling point 85 00:06:27.529 --> 00:06:31.209 when you think about the alignment issues that may exist across teams and organizations. 86 00:06:31.649 --> 00:06:35.079 So how do you help solve that? Well, okay, ours is one 87 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:39.199 way and we'll talk about that a little bit later, but you also saw 88 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:44.079 that with data. So first we the same way that many other markers do, 89 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.350 as you reference. We focus on data in the marketing team. We 90 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:51.029 focus on the outcomes that data suggest and the insights that data brings. But 91 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:55.990 we don't do that simply from the standpoint of my team reporting to me and 92 00:06:56.189 --> 00:07:00.990 US evaluating their success outcomes from the data that they are delivering to me across 93 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:06.459 whether it's lead generation or sqls or whatever our particular metrics are. We try 94 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:12.300 to instrument the business as a whole and then we instrument the individual parts of 95 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.850 that business. So we're a SASS business and the examples I just gave, 96 00:07:15.930 --> 00:07:18.810 I think are kind of valuable. We have a funnel. That funnel begins 97 00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:24.810 with some form of leads that then generally work their way down to, for 98 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:28.449 us, marketing quality fied leads, and then they work their way down to 99 00:07:28.649 --> 00:07:32.279 sales qualified leads, which are meetings, and then those meetings are passed to, 100 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:35.279 obviously, the sales team, and the a's then do something with those 101 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:39.920 meetings, and so there's a whole set of instrumentation around that data. But 102 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:46.670 beyond the obviousness of that instrumentation, there's data surrounding what actions have to be 103 00:07:46.829 --> 00:07:50.829 taken in order to succeed at those key data points. So, for example, 104 00:07:51.029 --> 00:07:56.949 how many calls might a sales development rep need to make on average in 105 00:07:57.069 --> 00:08:03.300 order to secure a sales qualified lead? How many enterprise leads does the marketing 106 00:08:03.379 --> 00:08:07.540 team need to drive on any individual landing page in order to in general, 107 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:13.649 funnel down to a sales qualified lead. So we take all of that data 108 00:08:13.649 --> 00:08:16.370 as the kind of the core that we use amongst the colleagues, the marketing 109 00:08:16.490 --> 00:08:22.250 colleagues, and Mike Case Marketing also includes SDR, sales development remps, report 110 00:08:22.329 --> 00:08:26.730 to me as Cmo, and then we take that data and we align in 111 00:08:26.810 --> 00:08:31.559 that data across particularly our colleagues in sales and a eve functions, but even 112 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:35.360 with our colleagues across the product and engineering teams, because so much of this 113 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.000 is interrelated. And that's where I think it becomes quite important is that when 114 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:46.230 I'm managing the marketing team, the obviousness of their individual performance from the specific 115 00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:52.830 data points that they're required to succeed at is perhaps less the the issue that 116 00:08:52.950 --> 00:08:56.299 needs to be addressed then aligning that data across the organization as a whole, 117 00:08:56.460 --> 00:09:00.940 and that's where I think it becomes comes the leverage point, is to lever 118 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.700 that data beyond just the simplicity of the team itself. Yeah, you know, 119 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.419 I hear a lot of marketing and sales leaders going going back and forth 120 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:11.809 on you know, it seems like every organization is a little bit different in 121 00:09:13.049 --> 00:09:16.049 where sales development reports. It sounds like they report into marketing, as you 122 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.889 mentioned. For yourself set, do you feel like that gives you a better 123 00:09:20.970 --> 00:09:26.639 ability to to collect and manage those data points on the front end of the 124 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.159 sales process, with the SDR team rolling up into marketing? This is a 125 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.159 very important question right for me personally, I feel that it does. I 126 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.870 feel that it's an it's a natural but I think it's very dependent on your 127 00:09:39.909 --> 00:09:45.669 organization and where where the responsibility lives. I view myself as Cmo as, 128 00:09:45.830 --> 00:09:48.190 and we do this, of course, at you tim hub, obviously, 129 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:54.700 as responsible for generating lead flow, lead flow that that drives its way all 130 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.779 the way to the point where an AE can legitimately have a sales call or 131 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:03.340 a meeting. So it gives me more than just a bird's eye view, 132 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:09.929 it's the entire funnel conduit and by by having that opportunity to manage the SDRs, 133 00:10:09.009 --> 00:10:13.090 not only do I see that, but it really allows me to integrate 134 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.970 the marketing team much more closely than they might otherwise be in regards to sales. 135 00:10:18.250 --> 00:10:22.120 There's no question in the minds of my marketing managers what they need to 136 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.519 do. They breage really deal with their colleagues next to them that are sales 137 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.759 development reps. there's there's really never any gap between an understanding of why are 138 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:37.470 we marketing any activity that they engage in as a marketer, which is to 139 00:10:37.549 --> 00:10:41.230 a certain degree also because we drink our own champagne, and all of these 140 00:10:41.350 --> 00:10:46.669 individuals have okrs that are very clear to them. But but having their colleague 141 00:10:46.710 --> 00:10:50.379 sitting right next to them makes that alignment much stronger. And that alignment occurs 142 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:54.259 not because not simply because they're in the same room, but because they're all 143 00:10:54.299 --> 00:11:01.259 focusing on the same insights that come from the data. Hey, everybody logan 144 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:05.330 with sweet fish here. You probably already know that we think you should start 145 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.809 a podcast if you haven't already. But what if you have and you're asking 146 00:11:07.970 --> 00:11:13.450 these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted revenue this year? 147 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:18.529 How is our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? If you can't answer 148 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.840 these questions, you're actually not alone. This is why I cast it created 149 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:28.600 the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be tob podcasting. Now you 150 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.509 can more easily search and share your audio content while getting greater visibility into the 151 00:11:33.629 --> 00:11:39.990 impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at drift terminus and here at sweet 152 00:11:39.029 --> 00:11:43.590 fish have started using casted to get more value out of our podcasts and you 153 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:48.179 probably can to. You can check out the product in action and casted dot 154 00:11:48.259 --> 00:11:56.539 US growth. That's sea steed dot US growth. All right, let's get 155 00:11:56.580 --> 00:12:03.529 back to the show. Yeah, absolutely, and I can see how that 156 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:07.330 you know that tighter relationship, that closer proximity, leads to that. How 157 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:09.769 about you know, you talked about sales and then product in engineering, when 158 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:15.490 they are a little bit further removed from your department. Finding out what data 159 00:12:15.610 --> 00:12:20.039 can you collect to see how that aligns in and inform what you do? 160 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.519 What recommendations do you have further marketing leaders about trying to align on on data 161 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.759 if they don't have direct access over the control of what data is being gathered, 162 00:12:30.149 --> 00:12:33.429 what they can see those sorts of things in in those further removed points 163 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:37.669 in sales and then in product as well? Well, it's a little a 164 00:12:37.950 --> 00:12:45.059 little challenging to answer what what to prescribe for someone else because we happen to 165 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:46.899 be in the position, as I said, at you know, you call 166 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:48.539 it drinking your own cool aid. We call it drinking our own champagne. 167 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:54.179 We use the GTM hub platform in our own business and part of what the 168 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:58.769 GTM plub hub platform does is it aggregates the data from a host of third 169 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:03.129 party tools that we use and that everybody else uses, everything from Jira to 170 00:13:03.409 --> 00:13:09.610 Google analytics, from your crm hub spot or sales force to utilizing slacker ramus 171 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:13.679 teams. And because we do that and because, okay, ours by their 172 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:18.480 very nature are designed to be transparent, that that flow of data, whether 173 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:24.799 it's from my marketing team, used by that them and therefore viewable by the 174 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.830 engineering team, or whether it's a set of engineering and product data that they 175 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.110 are gathering, that's visible and actionable by the company as a whole and therefore 176 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:37.110 particularly my team. So my my strong recommendation, whether, of course, 177 00:13:37.149 --> 00:13:41.740 the first recommendation is you should use GTM hub as a platform, but the 178 00:13:41.059 --> 00:13:46.460 real recommendation in regards to what we developed, is to have a source by 179 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:50.700 which you can aggregate the data that you're already pulling from all of your tools 180 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:58.090 and surface that to the company or to the managers as a whole for actionable 181 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.850 insight purposes. Yeah, I mean the common thread there, no matter what 182 00:14:01.009 --> 00:14:05.769 the platform, is the aggregation of that data into, you know, more 183 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:09.409 or less one dashboard, because if everybody's looking at their own dashboard, then 184 00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:13.399 that's that's where the misalignment happens. But to the extent that you can create 185 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:18.000 a single dashboard from that aggregation of data across the functions, that's where you 186 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.720 can really start to see some improvement set. The other thing I wanted to 187 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:26.750 ask you about is this idea of productivity management. You guys talk a lot 188 00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:31.909 about that. Productivity management is really the job of any manager today. Can 189 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:35.350 you unpack that a little bit for us today, and especially within this context 190 00:14:35.669 --> 00:14:39.860 of running a more effective marketing team? I think it's quite interesting that we 191 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.980 just happened to land on it right now because it's super related to what you 192 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.220 just asked about and a comment that we were just talking about in regards to 193 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:52.419 that data flow right. So, if you think a little bit, even 194 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:58.450 just an aggregated dashboard doesn't quite do the trick necessarily. One of the truism's 195 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:05.009 that I've found across particularly marketing teams in the last decade or so is that 196 00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:11.320 data in of itself doesn't solve problems. Right insights solve problems. So if 197 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.519 your data that you're surfacing isn't leading to insights, you don't know how to 198 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.519 solve problems or improve. And that is very much related to what we were 199 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.990 just talking about and it's super related to productivity management, because there are a 200 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:28.029 lot of tools out there to surface data of both the perhaps the actions of 201 00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:35.110 any particular staff or individuals, as well as the result sets that you're delivering 202 00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:37.940 from your marketing activities. But what you really need to know is where are 203 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.139 you supposed to be going, how are you supposed to get there, and 204 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:46.100 then instrument the results of a guy. I use the word instrumentation a lot 205 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:50.289 because it's really an important component of the way that we run our business, 206 00:15:50.370 --> 00:15:52.649 the way that I run my marketing teams and the platform that we that we 207 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:58.049 deliver, and it's because of the circumstances that were referencing right now. So 208 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:03.840 let's let's imagine that you have a unified dashboard but you're not entirely sure what 209 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.960 outcome you're focused on. Doesn't necessarily help you. Let's imagine you have a 210 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:14.000 unified dashboard but you can't develop insights from it. You have an instrumented the 211 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.679 business elements it. You don't know where to go with that, and so 212 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:22.350 the productivity management piece is a little less, in my opinion, about how 213 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:26.149 to manage. Hopefully that's a different discussion that people can have in regards to 214 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:32.269 some of the best practices of being a manager and much more about how do 215 00:16:32.389 --> 00:16:37.259 you actually help your team to both know where they should be going and how 216 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:41.340 they're going to get there and then evaluate data as it's coming in to help 217 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:45.940 them optimize that process. So that comes back again to two things, like 218 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:49.690 saying, oh well, how many visitors to this page do we need to 219 00:16:49.809 --> 00:16:55.250 have in order to drop this all the way down the funnel to one sales 220 00:16:55.289 --> 00:17:00.649 qualified lead, and then you can start instrumenting the elements of what are we 221 00:17:00.769 --> 00:17:04.079 doing in regards to things like click through rates for the ads on channel X 222 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:11.359 versus Channel Y. All of that type of activity is stuff that I expect 223 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.440 my marketing team to be able to manage on their own, but I'm I'm 224 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.750 there to help mentor the understanding of the instrumentation and to help provide them with 225 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:26.549 assistance in the optimization both my style and the style at GTM hub is very 226 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:30.700 much reliant upon. We try to great, great, great people and we 227 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:34.099 expect that they will focus on how to get where they need to go and 228 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:38.460 they look to their managers and executives to help optimize that process. And that's 229 00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:42.859 what we think of. We think of productivity management interesting. So you know, 230 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:45.170 as someone was talking about this the other day, I can't remember if 231 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:49.369 this conversation of Linkedin or twitter or something. I think it was a question, 232 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:53.569 and someone in my network on Linkedin asked about, you know, on 233 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:57.210 the on a sales team, for instance, how much leeway do you give 234 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:02.839 in how prescriptive you are and how things tend to get done? It seems 235 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.319 like you kind of lean towards okay, if we have a dashboard and and 236 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.440 to your point, a dashboard isn't isn't the end all be all you have, 237 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.960 because if I have a four year old sitting in the seat of a 238 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.349 car and sees a dashboard and sees a sphenometer, that doesn't mean anything right 239 00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:18.150 one. Can they reach the pedals and to do they know what the speed 240 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:22.549 limit is and how to operate the car? So kind of those next steps 241 00:18:22.589 --> 00:18:26.109 of learning to drive and obviously going from four to sixteen. The analogy kind 242 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:30.579 of broke down there. You're leaning in this, I'd say. One side 243 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:34.819 of the spectrum is being very prescriptive on this is how we do it. 244 00:18:36.220 --> 00:18:38.660 The other side of the spectrum saying these are the results we're trying to drive 245 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:42.809 here. are kind of the the lanes on the road. Stay between these 246 00:18:42.930 --> 00:18:45.930 and if you're kind of veering off, come to your manager for some guidance 247 00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:49.609 on maybe how to do it more effectively. It sounds like you lean more 248 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:53.089 on that ladder side of that. Is that fair to say? So it 249 00:18:53.289 --> 00:19:00.680 is fair to say both philosophically but also because of the deployment of effective objectives 250 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:06.000 and key results. That's the lynchpin that allows for that and the one can 251 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:10.869 you can almost think of objectives and key results as the counterpoint to command and 252 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:15.549 control. Right, you have a command and control style organization and objectives and 253 00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:19.309 key results are designed to say, listen, let's let's sign Poe most the 254 00:19:19.430 --> 00:19:23.420 major directions at each perhaps step of the organization, whether you want to say 255 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:30.099 the CEO level or the you know, group team level, but let's assume 256 00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:34.539 that the individuals on the ground are the ones best equipped to figure out how 257 00:19:34.779 --> 00:19:40.849 to achieve the goals of where we want to go and to identify their key 258 00:19:41.450 --> 00:19:45.210 objectives and their key results that need to be achieved in order to move the 259 00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:52.400 organization forward. And so it's only because we have this framework of okres alongside 260 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.000 another important piece, which we'll talk about in a moment, which is the 261 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:02.720 ability to to in real time, evaluate the progress on those key results. 262 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.839 But it's only by having that strong Okr environment that, I think, that 263 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.789 we can do more than pay lip service to the idea that we just said, 264 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:15.269 that we can actualize it in the other yeah, absolutely, and so 265 00:20:15.670 --> 00:20:18.269 that really kind of ties nicely into the last thing I wanted to chat with 266 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.700 you about today, seth and that is what some call that, that regular 267 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:26.339 cadence of accountability in the okay our system. It's really where the rubber meets 268 00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:33.099 the road in in setting and working towards those key results and tying those big 269 00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:37.849 picture priorities to the daily tasks. Let's let's camp bound on that as we 270 00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:42.130 as we wrap up today and give folks some actionable next steps to kind of 271 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:45.849 bring it down to the ground level. Sure, and I think we really 272 00:20:47.009 --> 00:20:49.279 it's funny the analogy of bringing it down to the ground level as a good 273 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.119 one, because we have to start at the Fiftyzero foot level. And the 274 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.960 reason we have to start there is that strategy has to be articulated. That's 275 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:02.599 the first thing, right, for an optimized marketing strategy or for an optimized 276 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:07.029 organizational approach, you have to identify and articulate the essential goals that you're focused 277 00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:12.069 on. And something like just over fifty percent of middle managers. It's like 278 00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:18.509 fifty five percent of middle managers can name one out of five of their company's 279 00:21:18.549 --> 00:21:21.220 top priorities. So it's a little bit worse than it sounds. Right, 280 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:25.980 they've given been given five chances to name one top priority and only fifty five 281 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:30.259 percent of them can even do that. The first fifty percent can name twenty 282 00:21:30.339 --> 00:21:33.769 percent. That's rust all. It's like gets its fifty percent. It sounds 283 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:37.890 bad, but it's a it's worse than it's much worse than that. Right, 284 00:21:37.210 --> 00:21:41.369 exactly right. And so first you have to start there, right, 285 00:21:41.490 --> 00:21:47.920 and then from that foundation you can start empowering individual employees to help define success 286 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.160 and identify how to get there. So we talked a little bit about that. 287 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:55.480 Right now, the issue becomes. What's the reality about that? Well, 288 00:21:55.559 --> 00:22:00.990 in large organizations especially, sometimes things like okay ours simply go awry, 289 00:22:02.150 --> 00:22:04.190 and the one of the reasons they go awry is it's great to talk about 290 00:22:04.190 --> 00:22:08.710 strategy and then it's great to talk about allowing the person on the ground to 291 00:22:10.190 --> 00:22:15.859 to really set the the daily direction in order to achieve that strategy, but 292 00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:18.819 the where the rubber meets the road is is that happening? And in in 293 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:25.500 kind of traditional Ok our methodology, you have these weekly Checkens, but in 294 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:27.900 order to do weekly Checkens, you have to update the status of each of 295 00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:33.089 those key results, which means that if you're not careful, you end up 296 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:40.930 with hundreds or thousands of people spending hundreds of thousands of ours okring instead of 297 00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:45.640 doing their jobs and getting the power of okrs. So in order to connect 298 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.960 the strategy and the execution, in order to take advantage of the power that 299 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:53.400 we're talking about, these superpowers of o Kurs, something else has to has 300 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:57.440 to kind of split their way into the mix. So what we've done is 301 00:22:57.789 --> 00:23:02.950 is created something that we call dynamic key results, and this goes back to 302 00:23:02.990 --> 00:23:07.230 the whole idea of using data, and it's particularly relevant for marketing teams, 303 00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:11.670 but it's relevant for any team across the organization, in any individual in our 304 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:17.140 appearance, in our opinion, and that is to connect all of those data 305 00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:22.180 tools that everyone is using every day anyway into the key results on an automated 306 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:27.690 basis so that you, as an individual can quite easily see what your progress 307 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:33.410 is without having to go spend time figuring out the update and then perhaps, 308 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:40.970 as importantly, your manager or your executives or your colleague across teams can also 309 00:23:41.009 --> 00:23:45.160 see what progress is not simply on a weekly basis but on a real time 310 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.559 basis, and so this real time, I'm issue becomes quite important in today's 311 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:55.039 world. Being able to see the execution on a real time basis on a 312 00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.029 day by day basis helps identify where is it not working. Now I can 313 00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:03.029 go we could spend a lot more time talking about the kind of the for 314 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:07.230 quadrants of what happens when you have strategy on one side and execution on the 315 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:10.579 other, and we can talk about each of the quadrants that that occurs in 316 00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:14.859 terms of when strategy is working, when execution isn't, vice versa, and 317 00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:18.940 etc. But suffice it to say that I think that you can kind of 318 00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:22.579 get the picture that in order to connect these daily activities to the big picture 319 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:26.250 priorities, there's a method, the dology for it. But if you don't 320 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:33.329 have a mechanism that truly allows for the real time of valuation, that methodology 321 00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:36.970 maybe starts to fall flat and it doesn't serve you. And that's what we 322 00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:41.279 find to be really important. So by by using these the data to align 323 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.519 teams. In my case it's a marketing team, but in our case it's 324 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.519 teams as a whole, so to cross a line teams within and across the 325 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:55.670 organization, to focus on helping them achieve productivity, by using that framework to 326 00:24:55.869 --> 00:25:00.390 instrument the business, and then to add this idea of a dynamic key results 327 00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:06.349 so that that instrumentation is visible in real time. That's what allows us, 328 00:25:06.390 --> 00:25:11.380 I think, to create these really highly leverage affect teams, and particularly on 329 00:25:11.420 --> 00:25:14.619 the marketing and St our side. Man Seth, you wrapped it up better 330 00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:17.579 than than I could. That's exactly where where I was going, you know, 331 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:19.779 as I thought about what you've shared here. Those were really the three 332 00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:25.450 points that I think everyone can learn something from. So I won't I want 333 00:25:25.529 --> 00:25:27.250 just wrap them up here again. You can hit the thirty two back button. 334 00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:30.210 Set did a really great job. Everybody. Just hit that back, 335 00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:34.720 that back button and identify those, those three keys that you want to take 336 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.319 away from this episode. I think you've given us some very actionable stuff. 337 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:42.480 We've talked, you know, kind of the philosophical reasons behind some of these 338 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:47.440 recommendations and then some very solid recommendations on down to, you know, how 339 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.109 do we make key results people not spend a ton of time reporting on those 340 00:25:52.109 --> 00:25:56.190 key results? Where can we find automation to be able to self report without 341 00:25:56.190 --> 00:26:00.750 taking time to do that so that they can be more effective? Just so 342 00:26:00.910 --> 00:26:03.420 many things here. I think you've brought some really great advice to listeners today. 343 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:07.779 Seth. I think there's definitely some opportunity for us to go further, 344 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:12.059 maybe in another episode, on that strategy versus execution and breaking down that further 345 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:15.500 for folks. For now, if anybody listening to this has become a fast 346 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.369 fan of yours, just like me, what's the best way for them to 347 00:26:18.410 --> 00:26:22.049 reach out, stay connected with you or learn more about gt m hub? 348 00:26:22.369 --> 00:26:25.410 Sure? Well, of course, for g tim hub, you can go 349 00:26:25.569 --> 00:26:30.490 to GTM hubcom and if you're interested in the platform. There's a free trial 350 00:26:30.690 --> 00:26:33.319 that you can always use on the platform. If you're an enterprise, we 351 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.759 have all types of bells and whistles and I'd be happy to have you connect 352 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.880 with with some of our experts. But for any company, we actually have 353 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:48.670 something that's really exciting and that is a core are Okur software platform for a 354 00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:52.750 dollar per user, for less than a cup of coffee, and that also 355 00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:53.950 there's a free trial, so you can you can dig your way in and 356 00:26:55.109 --> 00:26:57.069 play with that. In regards to me personally, you can always reach out 357 00:26:57.069 --> 00:27:00.859 to me on Linkedin. It's it's pretty easy to find me. You can 358 00:27:00.980 --> 00:27:04.779 contact me via GTM hub and if you want to pay me on twitter, 359 00:27:04.900 --> 00:27:08.619 it's seth a Elliott, two ells and two teas. I love it. 360 00:27:08.740 --> 00:27:11.539 Set, thank you so much for being a great guest on the show today. 361 00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:14.500 No, no, it's my pleasure. I'm really glad we've got to 362 00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:19.569 chat. If that's really great. Hey there, this is James Carberry, 363 00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:22.769 founder of street fish media and one of the cohosts of this show. The 364 00:27:22.890 --> 00:27:26.329 last year and a half I've been working on my very first book. In 365 00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:30.279 the book, I share the three part framework we used as the foundation for 366 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.839 our growth here is sweetfish. Now there are lots of companies that ever he's 367 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.359 a bunch of money and have grown insanely fast, and we featured a lot 368 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.119 of them here on the show. We've decided to booststrap our business, which 369 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.910 usually equates to pretty slow growth, but using the strategy outlined in the book, 370 00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:49.670 we are on pace to be one of ink's fastest growing companies in two 371 00:27:49.710 --> 00:27:53.589 thousand and twenty. The book is called content based networking, how to instantly 372 00:27:53.710 --> 00:27:57.069 connect with anyone you want to know. If you're a fan of audio books 373 00:27:57.109 --> 00:28:00.180 like me, you can find the book on audible, or if you like 374 00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:03.220 physical books, you can also find it on Amazon. Just search content based 375 00:28:03.259 --> 00:28:08.980 networking or James Carberry, ther be aary, inaudible, or Amazon and it 376 00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:10.900 should pop right up.