1210: How to Show Your CEO that ABM is Working w/ Derek Slayton

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:10.789 Are you struggling to come up with original content weekend and week out? Start 2 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:15.470 a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care 3 00:00:15.509 --> 00:00:21.109 about most and never run out of content ideas again. Learn more at sweetphish 4 00:00:21.190 --> 00:00:30.219 MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB 5 00:00:30.339 --> 00:00:34.380 leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vanner, truck 6 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:38.289 and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 7 00:00:38.929 --> 00:00:42.929 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 8 00:00:43.490 --> 00:00:47.329 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're 9 00:00:47.369 --> 00:00:52.840 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies 10 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:56.039 in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet 11 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.679 fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of 12 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:03.679 the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 13 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.430 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share 14 00:01:07.469 --> 00:01:10.829 the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 15 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:21.540 Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to 16 00:01:21.620 --> 00:01:23.939 be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. Today I'm joined 17 00:01:23.980 --> 00:01:27.939 by Derek Slaton. He is the chief marketing officer over a terminus DEERC. 18 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:30.260 How's it going today? Man, it's great, Logan, thanks for having 19 00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:34.689 me on. Excited to do this with you guys. Absolutely it is great 20 00:01:34.769 --> 00:01:38.329 to meet you. We are obviously big fans of the terminus team. We've 21 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:42.689 had Sangram as as a regular guest on the podcast here. That Guy Sangram 22 00:01:42.810 --> 00:01:47.280 got it. Yeah, that Guy Sangram. We Love them around here. 23 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:49.920 We talked about them a lot. So it's great to meet more of the 24 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.239 terminus team and to have you on today. We're going to be talking about 25 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:57.920 some of the key areas where BB marketing is lacking today and and what marketers 26 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.069 can really do about it to address some of those areas of lack. Before 27 00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:04.709 we get into it, and I would love for you to provide listeners with 28 00:02:04.750 --> 00:02:07.870 a little bit of background on yourself and what you in the team at terminus 29 00:02:07.909 --> 00:02:09.909 or up to these days. Yeah, glad to I run marketing at terminus. 30 00:02:10.310 --> 00:02:14.189 I've been with the company for about a year and a half I've got 31 00:02:14.270 --> 00:02:19.020 a big background, I guess, lots of time spent in product and corporate 32 00:02:19.060 --> 00:02:23.060 marketing. Rolls across me to be companies primarily, and technology SASS companies, 33 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:27.939 and I've kind of lived through the evolution of of marketing as a as a 34 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:31.250 cost center to marketing as a revenue driver. And joined terminus because I just 35 00:02:31.370 --> 00:02:37.569 believe in this account based thing as a practitioner and it was super exciting to 36 00:02:37.610 --> 00:02:42.009 join a company to not only practice ABM but also help others practice it as 37 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:45.719 it kind of becomes just a better way to do be to be marketing. 38 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.199 And for those that don't know who terminus is, I'm sorry because I'm not 39 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.560 doing my job. But as as a brief hectorp we are an account based 40 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.870 marketing platform. We help customers kind of pick the right segments of the market, 41 00:02:59.469 --> 00:03:04.349 target the right accounts and then engage with those accounts through creative messages that 42 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.669 bring them into your pipeline. The things we do that are kind of different. 43 00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:10.710 One is we aggregate data, so your own data plus third party data, 44 00:03:10.789 --> 00:03:15.219 plus a bunch of intents and signal data out in the wild, and 45 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:17.580 help you put that all to use pretty easily. We own the point of 46 00:03:17.659 --> 00:03:23.099 engagement. So we're very good at getting messages through display ads, emails and 47 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:28.409 other channels to those target audiences and then we really do a solid job of 48 00:03:28.610 --> 00:03:32.250 measuring results at an account level and being account centric and helping you tell your 49 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:38.129 bosses where account based marketing is driving results and how your programs are performing. 50 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:40.560 So that's what we do. That's actually what I do too as a marketer. 51 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:44.520 So I kind of have a bit of a Meta thing going on. 52 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:46.960 Yeah, personally, but but yeah, that's me and term it us in 53 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.719 the nutshell. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I love hearing any time where 54 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:55.270 someone is an advocate for for a brand and then, you know, is 55 00:03:55.310 --> 00:04:00.069 able to join the team. I just think that's such a recipe for some 56 00:04:00.229 --> 00:04:02.629 magic things to happen, and you guys have have some great things going on 57 00:04:02.870 --> 00:04:05.430 over there at terminus. You know, Derek, as you and I were 58 00:04:05.509 --> 00:04:10.780 talking a little bit offline, you mentioned this distinction. We talk a lot 59 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:13.699 about sales and marketing alignment on the show. I think it's some of the 60 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:16.819 episodes that get a lot of engagement because it is a buzz word has been 61 00:04:16.899 --> 00:04:19.819 for a little bit. You kind of push against that. That phrase a 62 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:24.970 little bit and in push for a shift in thinking about this. Tell us 63 00:04:24.970 --> 00:04:27.490 a little bit about that, man. Yeah, well, I appreciate the 64 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:30.290 question and we were chatting about it beforehand. Logan, I just feel like 65 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:34.810 this alignment thing has been beaten to death and and everybody kind of has a 66 00:04:34.850 --> 00:04:38.449 Kumbaya about it. But but what does it really mean? I actually think 67 00:04:38.449 --> 00:04:41.319 sales and marketing need to be more integrated than a Ligne. And you know, 68 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.240 when I think about how I work with my cro at terminus, it's 69 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:47.959 very much a arm in arm thing versus a I'm going to carry it this 70 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.839 far and then I'm going to pass it to you and you're going to carry 71 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:54.509 it that far kind of thing. And alignment is really about managing the handoff. 72 00:04:54.829 --> 00:04:58.389 Integration is really about we're on a journey and my team's going to be 73 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:00.149 primary here and your team is going to be secondary, and then we're going 74 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:02.589 to switch and you're going to be primary and we're going to be secondary, 75 00:05:02.870 --> 00:05:05.990 and maybe it's some points we're both going to be secondary and somebody else is 76 00:05:06.069 --> 00:05:09.579 going to come in. We're going to make sure that happens. So it's 77 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:13.300 really I we talked a lot about integration of sales and marketing, and I'm 78 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:16.379 not talking about organizationally, although I think sometimes that maybe where people end up, 79 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:20.180 but it's really just about the mindset of we both own this, this 80 00:05:20.569 --> 00:05:25.810 mission, and the success or failure this mission is on both of our shoulders 81 00:05:25.970 --> 00:05:29.009 and it's not a you know, I've done my part. When it gets 82 00:05:29.050 --> 00:05:32.370 to this point alignment kind of conversation. Yeah, I think that's a really 83 00:05:32.410 --> 00:05:35.920 good point, dirt, because alignment means, you know, to take your 84 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:41.120 analogy of running on the track is we're in the same lane, but I'm 85 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.160 still handing it off to you when my part is done and now I'm expecting 86 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.600 you to take that part, which is better than running in opposite lanes or 87 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.110 just, you know, the exacting across the field. But when you're running 88 00:05:50.189 --> 00:05:54.350 arm and arm, there are parts that you know, especially with abm, 89 00:05:54.509 --> 00:05:59.350 where sales does something, then marketing then and there's this mixture of the the 90 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:04.180 activities together, as opposed to one segment then the next segment handled by each 91 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:08.860 function. And, like you said, that can lead to different organizational structures 92 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:12.060 or, you know, other sorts of sales and marketing motions. But I 93 00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:15.899 think the overall shift in mentality is, of is an important one at first 94 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:18.290 and some that you guys talk about a lot. Derek, as far as 95 00:06:18.410 --> 00:06:23.689 you know, we're marketing is lacking in the support of sales. Has Actually 96 00:06:23.689 --> 00:06:27.089 been this focus on the number of leads? Tell us a little bit about 97 00:06:27.089 --> 00:06:29.529 that. Yeah, I mean I think that's the whole and people probably heard 98 00:06:29.569 --> 00:06:31.920 this, you know, a bit from other sources as well. It's the 99 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.560 whole concept of lead base marketing versus account based marketing. And we sell to 100 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.480 accounts and there people at accounts that we sell to and a buying committee we 101 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.360 need to be aware of and and get our message too. But at the 102 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.149 end of the day, when we're measuring success and in form fills and lead 103 00:06:47.310 --> 00:06:50.709 metrics, you know, for be tob companies, that just doesn't Mesh well 104 00:06:50.870 --> 00:06:56.149 with with how sales is trying to get their job done. And I think 105 00:06:56.189 --> 00:06:59.949 if you're if you're super focused on a lead volume and leaves as that, 106 00:07:00.189 --> 00:07:03.939 but time pass then then you've got a huge challenge and really having an efficient 107 00:07:04.019 --> 00:07:09.420 sales and marketing engine. And and that's really what the account based, account 108 00:07:09.459 --> 00:07:14.019 based whatever marketing sale'll go to market is all about. And I think the 109 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:15.529 devil's in the details, all right, looking like if you're going to go 110 00:07:15.649 --> 00:07:18.810 down that path, then you got to shift your mindset about how do you 111 00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:23.810 do the work and how do you measure the work, because companies, you 112 00:07:23.889 --> 00:07:27.089 know, I think marketers really relished, you know, ten years ago, 113 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.199 when we could sign up for a number and that number was just measured in 114 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.519 leads. Yeah, we got out of the you know, red balloons or 115 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.480 blue balloons kind of decision into the how are you actually going to affect a 116 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.160 number for the company? Right problem is we picked a number that, at 117 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.000 the end of the day, isn't as relevant to success as it could be. 118 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.430 And I think now we're trying to get out of jail a bit, 119 00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:48.670 yeah, from the decision. So yeah, I mean, and I think 120 00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:54.709 it goes to the alignment or integration with sales. I've heard Sangrum say, 121 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.899 you know, companies don't have lead executives, they have account executives. I've 122 00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:01.259 heard John Barrows say, you know, I kind of called bs on, 123 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:05.540 you know, marketing needing to be account based, like sales has always been 124 00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:09.579 a count based. So if you're going to be aligned, then that should 125 00:08:09.579 --> 00:08:11.740 just be the way that it, that it goes. You touched on something 126 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:15.529 they're you know, Derek, that I want to I want to get into 127 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:18.769 and that's some of the how you know, we talked about some of these 128 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.370 things here on the show and I think even marketers who are already there and 129 00:08:22.449 --> 00:08:24.970 say, Yep, I see a lot of the stalue, but I don't 130 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:26.759 know how to make that shift. And and one of the shifts that they're 131 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.840 likely going to have to navigate is having a conversation with their CEO about the 132 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:37.200 shift, about what it looks like to change in what they're measured by. 133 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:39.159 Tell us a little bit about, you know, maybe what marketers can do 134 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.509 in those early conversations to get buy in from the rest of the executive team 135 00:08:43.549 --> 00:08:46.750 and especially the CEO. Yeah, I mean I think what what companies talk 136 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:50.230 about at the executive table all the time is we know what success looks like, 137 00:08:50.350 --> 00:08:54.549 but what are the leading indicators to whether we're going to succeed or not? 138 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:58.539 And that's pretty well defined in in sales right, it's pipeline, generally 139 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:01.500 waited out way to pipeline, those kind of metrics, and in marketing the 140 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:05.659 proxy has been leads right, and there was always this mathematical equation where you 141 00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:11.450 tried to figure out what your conversion rate from lead to pipeline to revenue was 142 00:09:11.490 --> 00:09:13.769 going to be, and what we've seen is that has just fundamentally broken down 143 00:09:15.009 --> 00:09:18.330 in terms of the equation in in trying to marry up the relevance of a 144 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:22.049 lead to assign customer. So really, when you think about an account based 145 00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:26.840 scorecard, how do you, as a marketer, make the CEO understand that 146 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.440 marketing is now going to be measured on a better leading indicator? To pipeline, 147 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.559 then leads are and if you have that conversation with your CEO like look, 148 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.590 we need to continue to drive further away from success and understand what the 149 00:09:39.669 --> 00:09:45.950 leading indicators of success will be so we can manage expectations, resource alignment, 150 00:09:46.590 --> 00:09:50.309 staffing, all that stuff. And when you start looking at measuring marketing on 151 00:09:50.389 --> 00:09:54.700 a better leading indicator and you're talking to your CEO about I have a better 152 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.259 idea to give you a better leading indicator to how well I'm performing is a 153 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.899 team, then I think your CEO is gonna be like great, let's do 154 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:05.899 that, because I'm tired of having the lead conversion argument between sales marketing and 155 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:09.370 for us, you know, it's engagement. Like so, within my target 156 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:15.649 market segments, how well am I engaging accounts at an account level such that 157 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:18.850 they will turn into pipe line at a you know, at a better rate, 158 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.559 and so really that is that's the way to have. In my experience 159 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.679 and having done it a few times and also having worked with we have hundreds 160 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.480 of customers that are going through this, this journey as well, and seeing 161 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.679 what what ones of them are more successful or less successful in getting their company 162 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.710 to embrace this concept. It's really it's really around thinking about it in that 163 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:43.470 in that mindset. I really like that as as someone who's gone through the 164 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:48.710 for disciplines of execution or DX is. People know that that model by you 165 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:52.100 know, it's something that struck me there is that it's very common for people 166 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:54.299 to get hung up on lag measures, which is, you know, for 167 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.700 folks who aren't familiar with that methodology, as you talk about what we know 168 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.019 success looks like, but the devil in the details is what are the leading 169 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:07.049 indicators? And so I like the way that you put that the lead measures 170 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:11.850 or the leading indicators that are going to be a better predictor of success and 171 00:11:11.929 --> 00:11:16.049 that that's the right way to have that conversation you mentioned. From there then 172 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:18.480 starting to build out. Okay, how are we going to measure? ARE 173 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.320 BUILDING OUT OUR ABM score card. What advice do you have for folks in 174 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.559 getting started there, once they get some initial by and dirt? Yeah, 175 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:28.480 I mean, I'm a vender here, so just a quick warning, right. 176 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.360 We have a solution that helps with the stuff and we do it every 177 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.750 day with our customers. So if you haven't checked it out, please do. 178 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:39.909 But I really actually think it's it's comical to me that, as a 179 00:11:39.029 --> 00:11:45.470 marketing leader, like what is my what is my dashboard for success? And 180 00:11:45.629 --> 00:11:48.820 we have this conversation on internally. You know it's not marketing automation, right, 181 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:52.740 it just isn't. It's pipeline, reporting and sales force for us. 182 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:56.899 And so when we start looking at an account based platform, it's how can 183 00:11:56.940 --> 00:12:01.610 we believe that marketing is delivering on on numbers? And that is really in 184 00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:05.929 measuring. These are my market segments. I'm identifying these segments based on this 185 00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:11.409 data and we agree that these are the best indicators of the best markets for 186 00:12:11.529 --> 00:12:15.570 us to put resources behind. And then I'm going to measure at an account 187 00:12:15.610 --> 00:12:20.240 level how well we're moving the needle of getting that account to being, you 188 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.879 know, aware and interested in what we do, and those are measurable things. 189 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:30.389 Our solution helps you do that. We me personally uses that internally, 190 00:12:30.909 --> 00:12:33.509 but I think if you're if you're going to go down this journey, you 191 00:12:33.629 --> 00:12:37.110 got to buy a platform that helps you do it. Like so. So 192 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:41.990 in our business we talk a lot about what makes us different from a couple 193 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:46.620 of the other folks that are in the account based platform space, and really 194 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.620 I'm not that interested in differentiating what we do from some of the other folks 195 00:12:50.659 --> 00:12:54.259 because we all do a pretty good job. There's some different stuff that we 196 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:56.419 do that other folks do. What I need the market to understand is it 197 00:12:56.419 --> 00:13:00.690 if you were going to do this, you've actually got to make a decision 198 00:13:00.809 --> 00:13:05.929 to to acquire the capability to do it right, or else you're going to 199 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:09.570 you're going to spin, yeah, and you're going to end up back in 200 00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:11.210 like well, we can measure leads. Let's go back to Leeds. Yeah, 201 00:13:11.490 --> 00:13:16.639 what are not saying by technology for technology saying, but understand that the 202 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:22.639 current technology set that we all bought five to seven years ago actually doesn't support 203 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.120 an account centric market plan and and you need one to if you're going to 204 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:31.070 do it. Yeah, today's gross story is all about search engine marketing. 205 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:35.509 The company were highlighting is sentinel one. This challenger Cyber Security Brand was set 206 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:41.389 out to disrupt the endpoint protection space. Their brand was top notch, their 207 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:46.299 product was innovative, but they were struggling to gain traction online and an already 208 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:50.940 developed industry. Then they found directive consulting, a Bob Search Marketing Agency. 209 00:13:52.539 --> 00:13:56.769 Within the first order of working with directive, Sentinel one was able to increase 210 00:13:56.850 --> 00:14:01.929 their organic traffic by a hundred and twenty eight percent and overall read volume by 211 00:14:01.929 --> 00:14:05.730 an outstanding two hundred and fifty one percent. I have a hunch that directive 212 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:09.000 can get these kind of results for you to, so head over to directive 213 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:18.000 consultingcom and request a totally free custom proposal. That's directive consultingcom. All right, 214 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:22.240 let's get back to this interview. What are some of those areas in 215 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.110 either putting together the plan, putting together the right resources or the expectations? 216 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:31.429 You know, no matter what platform someone's using, where you see people consistently 217 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:37.509 miss the mark and they don't give themselves enough in the beginning stages for success, 218 00:14:37.629 --> 00:14:41.100 let alone sustain success there. Yeah, well, I think a lot 219 00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:43.500 of it is them. A lot of it is just picking your how you're 220 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.179 going to roll this out. So I need to focus on for this part 221 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:50.740 of our business. We are going to make this decision, we're going to 222 00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:54.570 shift our structure to be focused on accounts, we're going to drive account based 223 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.250 methodologies to penetrate those accounts, we're going to measure our success against those accounts 224 00:14:58.289 --> 00:15:05.009 and just being really practical and transparent and how you're going to how big of 225 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:07.090 a bite you're going to take off and then how you're going to measure that 226 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.919 success. And I think you know, partnering with sales, partnering with Account 227 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.559 Development or sales development, whatever you call that function, which Mayson in marketing 228 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:20.759 or mason sales, and understanding the expectations in the process and then just committing 229 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.429 to it. What I've seen people fail with more frequently than than not is 230 00:15:24.590 --> 00:15:28.950 being overly transactional and how they do it like we're going to run this and 231 00:15:28.990 --> 00:15:31.549 then we're going to measure it in five weeks and if we're not seeing success, 232 00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:35.419 we're going to question ourselves, like nothing wins more than consistency and you 233 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:39.940 can't control the timing of your buyer as much as you might think you'd like 234 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.419 to. Yeah, so, absolutely. So. You know, you know 235 00:15:43.659 --> 00:15:48.740 they're the right accounts. They will eventually have a propensity to purchase from you, 236 00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:52.690 but it may not be tomorrow and that's there's a lot of factors you 237 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:56.730 can't control on that equation. But you need to stay persistent and being in 238 00:15:56.769 --> 00:16:00.610 their mind so that when they either are close to ready or become ready, 239 00:16:00.649 --> 00:16:03.649 and maybe you can accelerate that a bit, then they reach out to you 240 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:07.440 or they are receptive to something where you're reaching out to them. But you 241 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.399 can't just assume that they're not the right account as they're not engaging. They 242 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:12.679 probably are the right account but they got a bunch of stuff going on. 243 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:17.120 I just acquired a company. They just brought in a new VP of whatever 244 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.110 like. There's stuff that goes up, things that you know. As someone 245 00:16:21.149 --> 00:16:23.830 who's been in BB sales for ten plus years, you just know those sort 246 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:27.509 of things and you you know to kind of account for those sorts of things 247 00:16:29.029 --> 00:16:32.830 from a sales perspective, and I think marketing putting on that Lens as well 248 00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:36.100 makes makes a lot of sense. I mean it's very much in line with 249 00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:40.139 how we're talking with marketers about podcasting. You know it. Oh, can 250 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:42.899 we do three podcast episodes over three months and then measures success? Right. 251 00:16:42.980 --> 00:16:48.570 No, consistency is the key in these sorts of things that take a bigger 252 00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:52.490 shift a longer time, whether that's brand building and thought leadership with a podcast 253 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:56.330 for making a shift to and ABM model, these sorts of things definitely take 254 00:16:56.409 --> 00:17:00.090 time. You mentioned something there, Derek, that you know it's crucial to 255 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.720 give it time to play out because you know that you're targeting the right accounts. 256 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.359 Are there's some some areas of advice you could give to marketers that are 257 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:14.359 just starting out in this area of account selection where maybe you see some common 258 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:18.990 fitfalls or you have some repeatable advice that you're giving to folks so that they 259 00:17:18.029 --> 00:17:22.750 can kind of have a little bit more assurance and a little bit more trust 260 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:26.990 in the process as they look to build consistency over time and look for the 261 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:30.220 long term results. Yeah, I mean this is we could probably talk for 262 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:33.339 two hours about this subject Logan, so I'll try to be concise. I 263 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.779 think we're finally coming around to like better understanding the connection between brand and demand, 264 00:17:37.779 --> 00:17:41.740 and I think if you're going to be successful and account based, it's 265 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:48.730 really being cognizant of how you're going to measure brand marketing in its ability to 266 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:55.170 drive engagement demand. And for too long, because we've been so focused on 267 00:17:55.769 --> 00:18:00.960 kind of results base marketing, our brand experience has been click baiti right in 268 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.680 B tob as we're looking for in is like I just want to put that 269 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.599 message out that's going to get someone to download the White Paper, or I'm 270 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.880 just going to whatever. It's a green button versus a blue button, or 271 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.150 it's it's some wording around free right where it be to be. We've just 272 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:21.470 been so caught up in how do I drive my response race from zero four 273 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:26.789 four to point zero five right. And you got to you got to remove 274 00:18:26.869 --> 00:18:30.900 all that and be able to measure. I'm putting a great brand experience in 275 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:34.259 front of these accounts. I'm going to reach them through digital ads and digital 276 00:18:34.299 --> 00:18:38.299 experiences, but I'm not going to actually measure their clicks, because nobody actually 277 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:45.569 clicks right. Eventually they engage and they engage over their own process, which 278 00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:51.089 is seeing your brand promise in a great ad that's creative and touches on a 279 00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:56.039 pain point they have, in getting an email from your company that identifies, 280 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.519 you know, what their biggest problem is and how you can help solve that, 281 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.960 and then seeing you at an event and having the people in the booth 282 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.519 be able to communicate the value proposition of what you do as it relates to 283 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.750 their problem, and then, at the magic moment, being on your website 284 00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:15.950 and filling out I want to see a demo, right, and so like. 285 00:19:15.109 --> 00:19:18.990 You have to think about how you're going to measure the account in total 286 00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:22.869 as opposed to the channel of engagement you're trying to drive, and for us 287 00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:26.579 that's just a critical, critical thing that you have to think about. And 288 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:30.299 if you don't and you're just trying to measure the channel effectiveness, then you 289 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:33.500 get to this click baty thing, which is just it's mind. I mean 290 00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:37.420 it does two things. It gives us a false perception of reality, because 291 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:41.730 we like to picture this, you know, buy our journey a lot more 292 00:19:41.890 --> 00:19:45.450 linear than it than it actually is, and in this silo channel, and 293 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:48.690 that's not the case. It's it's across all these channels of engagement, online 294 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:52.799 and offline. And then it also just leads us to well, if we 295 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.440 can't tie this back to, you know, a specific conversion metric and a 296 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:02.480 tribute leads to it, then it's not worth it and it puts, you 297 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.960 know, Demandin and brand kind of at odds with each other. I see 298 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.230 people talking about a podcast and struggling with this. Well, we don't have 299 00:20:08.309 --> 00:20:11.829 the email addresses in the demographics of every podcast listener where, you know, 300 00:20:11.950 --> 00:20:15.869 my pushback is, well, does it matter if you are drawing people in 301 00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:21.900 with content that's not click baity but is actually delivering value? Isn't that what 302 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:26.019 inbound marketing, as you know, in our shift to content, has been 303 00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:30.059 all about? That we build a brand and put out content that attracts people, 304 00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:33.980 doesn't ensnare them or trick them with with Click Bate, and so I 305 00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:37.210 think it. I get passionate on that a bit and I think there's there's 306 00:20:37.210 --> 00:20:41.329 some alignment between you and I. They're but there, Derek. But this 307 00:20:41.410 --> 00:20:44.369 has been a great conversation. Man, you you hit on really three things 308 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:47.329 that I kind of jotted down, you know, having the conversation with your 309 00:20:47.369 --> 00:20:51.680 CEO and your executive team framed around this idea that I think we can have 310 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:56.480 a better leading indicator for success and then to setting the expectations that if we 311 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.440 resource this correctly and we get our heads around at the right way, a 312 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.750 shift to an account based everything, it can sustain success. But it's going 313 00:21:04.750 --> 00:21:08.509 to take a little bit of time. And then three looking at brandon demand, 314 00:21:08.509 --> 00:21:12.150 working together and not being at it at odds with each other. You 315 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:17.950 know, some mental shifts that can inform some some practical applications. Any other 316 00:21:17.990 --> 00:21:19.579 thoughts you want to leave folks with today as we wrap up? Derek, 317 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:22.859 no, I mean I think you touched on on kind of the highlights there, 318 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:26.299 so we'll done. Logan. I think he hit on a lot of 319 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:30.059 good points. I think the other concept is just think about having a conversation 320 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:33.650 with your your head of sales about how we're going to be better integrated versus 321 00:21:33.730 --> 00:21:37.890 just aligne and I think you know just from I'm a marketing guy, so 322 00:21:37.009 --> 00:21:41.289 I believe the words matter and I think that just puts the right context around 323 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:45.890 how you want a partner with sales. However, your company is organized across 324 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:52.279 marketing, Business Development, sales customer success. How can we be better integrated 325 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.119 in delivering a customer experience that we're proud of and wouldn't it be great if 326 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.000 we if all our customers were great customers, right. That's that's really what 327 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.990 we're trying to get to here. Yeah, because I'm you know, more 328 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:08.509 people are measuring success based on LTV versus, you know, for you know, 329 00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:12.309 the transaction, which is great, and it's a subscription economy, I'm 330 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:17.019 told. So it's only getting more. I've heard that too somewhere. Right. 331 00:22:17.420 --> 00:22:18.700 I'm with you, Derek. Awesome and well, Hey, this has 332 00:22:18.740 --> 00:22:22.980 been a great conversation. I'm sure that folks listening to this are likely going 333 00:22:23.019 --> 00:22:26.980 to have some follow up questions or going to want to stay connected with you, 334 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:29.779 Derek. What's the best way for them to reach out stay connected with 335 00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:32.569 you in the terminus team in yeah, well, we can check us out 336 00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.210 on our website, terminuscom. That's what we'll attribute everything to. Inbound. 337 00:22:36.210 --> 00:22:40.289 If you do that, and and you can hit me up on twitter at 338 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:45.640 dereks late or on Linkedin, I'm easily findable. They're awesome and if you're 339 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.400 a big fan of this show, you're likely going to love flip my funnel 340 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.799 as well. So find that wherever podcasts are sold. In addition to following 341 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.240 Derek and going to terminuscom Derek has been a great conversation man. Thanks so 342 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.390 much. Yeah, thanks, look at it. Was Great. Really appreciate 343 00:22:59.430 --> 00:23:06.470 it. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 344 00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.950 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 345 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:14.579 started the BTB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our 346 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:18.420 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 347 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:25.420 Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet fish Mediacom Big Three