1206: A 3-Phase Approach to Create Messaging for Paid Media w/ Josh Sturgeon

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.310 Hey there, this is James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media and one 2 00:00:08.349 --> 00:00:11.189 of the cohosts of this show. For the last year and a half I've 3 00:00:11.189 --> 00:00:14.990 been working on my very first book. In the book I share the three 4 00:00:15.029 --> 00:00:18.910 part framework we've used as the foundation for our growth. Here is sweetfish. 5 00:00:19.350 --> 00:00:22.620 Now there are lots of companies that everased a bunch of money and have grown 6 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:25.579 insanely fast, and we featured a lot of them here on the show. 7 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:30.579 We've decided to bootstrap our business, which usually equates to pretty slow growth, 8 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:34.700 but using the strategy outlined in the book, we are on pace to be 9 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:38.649 one of inks fastest growing companies in two thousand and twenty. The book is 10 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:42.729 called content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 11 00:00:43.289 --> 00:00:45.289 If you're a fan of audio books like me, you can find the 12 00:00:45.369 --> 00:00:48.369 book on audible, or if you like physical books, you can also find 13 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:54.359 it on Amazon. Just search content based networking or James carberry CR be aary 14 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.759 in audible or Amazon and it should pop right up. All right, let's 15 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:03.759 get into the show. Welcome back to beb growth. I'm Logan lyles with 16 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.829 sweet fish media. Today I'm joined by Josh Sturgeon. He is the cofounder 17 00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:10.189 over at Ember tribe and, Oh, by the way, he's a host 18 00:01:10.269 --> 00:01:12.510 of another podcast remote. Well, Josh, how's it going today? Man, 19 00:01:12.629 --> 00:01:15.069 it's going great. Logan things for happing me on. Yeah, absolutely, 20 00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:18.510 Man. So we're not going to be talking about podcasting, though you 21 00:01:18.549 --> 00:01:19.780 guys have a great podcast. Will have to link to that in the show 22 00:01:19.780 --> 00:01:23.980 notes because I always love plug in other great podcasts and I'm going to be 23 00:01:23.019 --> 00:01:26.140 checking it out as we run a fully remote team. But today we're going 24 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:32.500 to be talking about three phase of coach to developing better messaging before you start 25 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:37.409 any new ad campaign. So often people tend to skip over the importance of 26 00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:42.209 good copy good messaging. So I'm really excited to hear about this, especially 27 00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:46.129 for my own personal use, because we're ramping up some of our page strategies 28 00:01:46.170 --> 00:01:48.599 here in two thousand and twenty here at sweet fish. But before we get 29 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.000 into that, Josha, would love for you to give a little context to 30 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.799 listeners. Tell us a little bit about your background and what you and the 31 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.560 ember dribe up to these days. Man. Yeah, for sure, I'll 32 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.040 give you the the quick background. My back story, you know, had 33 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.030 a very kind of uncommon start into the world of digital marketing, which was 34 00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:07.469 I got introduced to through a dying phone book company where I did doortodoor sales 35 00:02:07.550 --> 00:02:12.629 and they were trying desperately to pilot it digital offering to their to their SMB 36 00:02:12.750 --> 00:02:15.340 clients, and so I didn't last long there, but got some good sales 37 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:21.939 experience and some good punches in the face and then very quickly started to learn 38 00:02:21.939 --> 00:02:24.900 on my own. You know, things like Seo and paid search and even 39 00:02:24.939 --> 00:02:30.129 paid social in the early days. Had some time in an agency where I 40 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:32.129 was a director of innovation. Get to work with some really large budgets and 41 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:36.050 see things in a large scale, but we're really kind of home in the 42 00:02:36.129 --> 00:02:38.969 craft. was with a business that my wife and I had started in another 43 00:02:39.009 --> 00:02:43.330 couple startups that we ended up going on to sell. So all of that 44 00:02:43.490 --> 00:02:46.280 was the back history before starting amber tribe, and amber tribe is a performance 45 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:50.719 marketing agency where we tend to work with a lot of early stage and growth 46 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:54.400 stage startups and we want to bring something to market that would be a service 47 00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:00.389 that really was results focused and gave actually these founders very quick timelines to understand 48 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:02.870 what was going to work and what was going to work in order to grow. 49 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.110 I think the thing that would set us apart from any of our peers 50 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:10.710 is really just this testing methodology that we've grown over time, which allows us 51 00:03:10.710 --> 00:03:15.340 to get to answers quicker, find traction quicker than ultimately scale up our clients 52 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:20.259 businesses quicker than usual. Awesome, man. Well, it's a lot of 53 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:23.580 that that's led to this three phase approach that you use with your clients and, 54 00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:27.530 unlike well, our net's character on the office, you're actually going to 55 00:03:27.569 --> 00:03:30.449 share all three today, but I would love for you to give us a 56 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:34.729 little bit of you know, you mentioned as we were chatting offline that it's 57 00:03:34.729 --> 00:03:38.610 a little bit different than your typical buy our persona research methodology. Maybe give 58 00:03:38.610 --> 00:03:42.319 us a little background and kind of what led you guys to this, and 59 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.439 then we're going to break down each of the three phases of this approach. 60 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:47.719 Man, for sure. Yeah, I'll preface it all by saying there's really 61 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:52.759 no substitute for talking to your customers or talking to your prospects and getting that 62 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:55.830 facetoface or that phone call. You really don't want to rush over that step, 63 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:00.110 but the reality is that a lot of marketing teams in particular, are 64 00:04:00.189 --> 00:04:04.990 fooling themselves the way that they approach persona research, as it's commonly known, 65 00:04:05.430 --> 00:04:09.229 and usually what it constitutes, if you've been any of these meetings before, 66 00:04:09.430 --> 00:04:13.819 is finding some sort of alliterative name for your target prospect, you know, 67 00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:16.379 Sally Spender or whatever it might be. That'll take fifteen to twenty minutes, 68 00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:20.740 and then you're going through and you're guessing at what makes that person tick. 69 00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:25.050 You're guessing at how much money they make per year, you're guessing at what 70 00:04:25.329 --> 00:04:28.410 shows they watch on Netflix and all sorts of things, things that are at 71 00:04:28.490 --> 00:04:33.129 best speculative and at worst completely wrong and have no actionable kind of impact on 72 00:04:33.209 --> 00:04:39.560 your marketing strategy. So what we realize really early on is that that exercise 73 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.399 is and going to get results for these, you know, early stage founders 74 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:46.160 that need to get results and show progress to milestones. So what we did 75 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.399 is we started to try to take a more data driven approach to very rapidly 76 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:54.310 understand and enter into the mind of the person that we're trying to reach. 77 00:04:55.069 --> 00:04:59.389 And basically, through that experience we've been able to teach this to other people 78 00:04:59.509 --> 00:05:02.029 and it's a an exercise that might take thirty to sixty minutes and we'll just 79 00:05:02.149 --> 00:05:05.310 put you much farther ahead that if you didn't do it in the first place. 80 00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:10.300 Right, so you're going to start at a level of higher performance then 81 00:05:10.339 --> 00:05:13.180 you would have otherwise. I love what you said. They're about, you 82 00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:16.379 know, no substitute for talking to your customers. We do a series here 83 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:20.060 on be to be growth called why podcast work. We had John Brugie, 84 00:05:20.100 --> 00:05:24.649 who folks know is a cohost of this show, but he was talking about 85 00:05:24.730 --> 00:05:29.490 his experience being a host of people in places a podcast he's hosted for a 86 00:05:29.529 --> 00:05:32.970 company called Skyfy, and he talked about, you know, oftentimes we produce 87 00:05:33.050 --> 00:05:36.560 podcast and at someone from the marketing team who heads up hosting and kind of 88 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.480 that strategy and they're surprised by the fact that, hey, when they feature 89 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:45.600 customers and when they feature prospects, it helps them iterate on their messaging so 90 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:48.639 much faster, because it's not that typical by our persona research. That's a 91 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:54.149 lot of guessing. It's it's one on one. It is hearing directly from 92 00:05:54.230 --> 00:05:57.550 them. So that just reminded me to that for anybody who's kind of maybe 93 00:05:57.589 --> 00:06:00.629 already has a podcast and could leverage at a little bit more than they've been 94 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:02.110 thinking about that. Will Link to that in the show notes. So with 95 00:06:02.189 --> 00:06:04.579 that, Josh, we're going to jump into the three phases. So you 96 00:06:04.660 --> 00:06:11.660 you describe them as finding the watering holes, analyzing patterns and then convert that 97 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:15.019 into your messaging strategy. Let's talk about number one. Finding the watering holes 98 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.410 first, perfect. Yeah, so this is nothing more than just doing a 99 00:06:18.410 --> 00:06:21.810 little bit of research, googling, understanding or even from your own experience, 100 00:06:21.850 --> 00:06:28.930 understanding where your audience is gathering in order to ask questions, find resources. 101 00:06:29.250 --> 00:06:32.600 What are the hubs where they're spending time in a digital sense, and you 102 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.399 know, in our experience that boils down into a few different places. The 103 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:41.319 first for be to be in particular. The first is review sites. So 104 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:46.000 you're thinking about trust rays, you're thinking about Cap Tera, places where there's 105 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.230 good, vetted feedback in reviews from actual users and customers, and really what 106 00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:56.069 you're looking at there are how people are talking about your competitors and other people 107 00:06:56.110 --> 00:06:58.430 in the space, and that I'll come to bear in a little bit. 108 00:06:58.709 --> 00:07:01.060 But the other kind of subcategory there would be communities. So your thinking about 109 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.819 lenking groups, facebook groups, niche forums, that are, you know, 110 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:09.459 cater to your particular industry or rotocol. You know, be able to go 111 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:13.579 in there and get the cover commentary in the real questions that people are asking 112 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:15.449 and the other answers that people are giving, whether the right or not, 113 00:07:16.329 --> 00:07:19.689 is absolute gold. And then the last is what I would consider like your 114 00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:25.370 resource community, and that's your Cora or in some cases are Reddit, where 115 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:28.889 there's just very explicit at questions and answers being given and you're able to drill 116 00:07:28.930 --> 00:07:34.399 down pretty quickly from a category standpoint to understand what's going on there. Hey, 117 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:39.480 everybody, logan with sweet fish here. You probably already know that we 118 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.000 think you should start a podcast if you haven't already. But what if you 119 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.790 have and you're asking these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted 120 00:07:46.910 --> 00:07:51.470 revenue this year? How is our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? 121 00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:57.069 If you can't answer these questions, you're actually not alone. This is why 122 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:01.259 I cast it created the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be tob 123 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:07.339 podcasting. Now you can more easily search and share your audio content while getting 124 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:13.050 greater visibility into the impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at Drift Terminus 125 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:18.769 and here at sweetfish have started using casted to get more value out of our 126 00:08:18.850 --> 00:08:22.730 podcasts, and you probably can to. You can check out the product in 127 00:08:22.889 --> 00:08:31.959 action and casted dot US growth. That's sea steed dot US growth. All 128 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:37.879 right, let's get back to the show. I love it. You know, 129 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.590 you point out some some good examples on the review site. Obviously we're 130 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:43.269 big fans of the folks over at GTO. There's another, you know, 131 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:48.230 resource that you can look at. There are there's some common things that you 132 00:08:48.389 --> 00:08:52.149 recommend folks do, Josh, as they look at these different watering holes. 133 00:08:52.190 --> 00:08:56.620 As you put it, to put more way, is it based on the 134 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:58.419 number of questions? The type of questions? Do you kind of put this 135 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.740 lens on? Okay, these questions hold a little bit more weight, not 136 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:07.179 necessarily because they're being asked more, but because they speak to a certain stance 137 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:11.009 of the buyer person or something like that. Yeah, you definitely. It's 138 00:09:11.009 --> 00:09:13.450 funny. This is less of a numbers game and more of a qualitative exercise, 139 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:16.250 but at the same time you need to have a large enough sample size 140 00:09:16.330 --> 00:09:20.570 for this just not to be some loose cannon. Who is talking about you 141 00:09:20.649 --> 00:09:24.210 know, the competitor. So what we typically tell people is to zoom in 142 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:26.919 really tight and try to find direct competitors, try to find, you know, 143 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.279 something that's exactly relevant to your offering what you do. But in the 144 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.879 case that there's not, like maybe you're plotting a new category, maybe you're 145 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:37.440 very, very new to the space and there's not a lot to go off 146 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.590 of, then you want to zoom out kind of, you know, fifty 147 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:45.509 percent or whatever the where the direction might be, and do something that's kind 148 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:48.629 of maybe solving part of the problem or it's a good proxy for how people 149 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:52.789 are trying to solve their problem. Now maybe it's another tool that just has 150 00:09:52.830 --> 00:09:54.299 a little bit of overlap, but the point is is to try to go 151 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:58.419 really tight in the beginning and if there's just not enough quantity or quality, 152 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:05.019 zoom out another frame and really you're just trying to get insight into your audience 153 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:09.210 and even if they're not directly solving the problem that you're solving, it gives 154 00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:11.490 you a line of sight to their their process of thinking about how they can 155 00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:15.009 go about solving the problem. I love it, man, that makes a 156 00:10:15.049 --> 00:10:18.129 lot of sense. A quick side note. Something that's been helpful for me, 157 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:22.120 not necessarily in analyzing our competitors, but looking at competitors of maybe prospects 158 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:24.960 that I'm talking to, that sort of stuff. If you're super early in 159 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.240 figuring out who are competitors, look at crunch based, look at Owler. 160 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.039 Owler has a plugin to crunch base, which is where you know I typically 161 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.750 look. So just a side note there. I love the way that you're 162 00:10:35.750 --> 00:10:39.350 approaching that. That first step, as you talked about it, Josh, 163 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:43.470 finding the watering holes. Let's move on to analyzing patterns, which you've kind 164 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:46.590 of already spoken to a little bit. What are some of the the tools 165 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:48.830 and the techniques that you recommend in the second phase? Man, exactly. 166 00:10:48.870 --> 00:10:52.659 Yeah, so really in this is a common thread through all of this is 167 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:56.019 that there's no shortage of quantitative data out there. You can buy research reports, 168 00:10:56.019 --> 00:11:00.259 you can get benchmarks for cosper click. All of that is really really 169 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:03.330 available, but what's missing in this modern era of digital marketing is the qualitative 170 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:07.490 info. So really, in this stage all you want to do is be 171 00:11:07.570 --> 00:11:11.210 able to quickly and at scale gather the information that you've uncovered from these different 172 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:16.690 communities and then be able to just have a very quick representation of the main 173 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.360 points, the patterns, the things that keep showing up. So what we 174 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.320 do here is, if you have coding experience, we have technical ability on 175 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:26.600 your team, maybe they can build something in python or something like that. 176 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.639 But if you don't have those resources, you don't need them. What we 177 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.830 recommend is using a tool called scrape. Similar IT'S A it's a scraping tool 178 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:37.350 that works in your browser. It's a chrome extension and what it allows you 179 00:11:37.389 --> 00:11:41.710 to do is say, let's you found a great cora thread or great core 180 00:11:41.950 --> 00:11:46.299 category, to be said more accurately. You can literally, you know, 181 00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:54.259 right click the first question or answer in that search results page and automatically scrape 182 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:58.179 or copied your clipboard all the questions that are kind of populated there. So 183 00:11:58.259 --> 00:12:01.139 it's a great, really quick, easy way just to grab everything, if 184 00:12:01.139 --> 00:12:03.169 you're non technical, and paste it to a notepad. That's all you're going 185 00:12:03.169 --> 00:12:07.570 to do is just grab the content using this free extension and paste it into 186 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:11.970 the into the NOTEPAD. Now this is where you can go as fancy or, 187 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:15.919 as you know, not, are just simple as you want to go. 188 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:18.639 But really what it's about at this point is just getting the broad strokes. 189 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.080 So what we like to do is, once we've gathered a repository of 190 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:26.960 all the questions, sorted by category, just Google for like a word cloud 191 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.429 visualization tool, and it's a quick and dirty way just to paste in everything 192 00:12:31.590 --> 00:12:35.669 that you've gathered. And then what the word cloud does is starts to just 193 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:39.110 show you, in terms of intensity, of the size and the Faun of 194 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:43.309 the word, just the patterns, the questions, the things that keep emerging, 195 00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:46.019 you know, through all the different threads, and it's a very quickly. 196 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:50.179 It takes you thirty seconds or less to start seeing. Oh, you 197 00:12:50.259 --> 00:12:54.899 know, everybody's talking about customer service or everybody's talking about you know, how 198 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.690 how difficult it is and how technically you have to be to set up this, 199 00:12:58.009 --> 00:13:01.690 you know, competitor software or whatever it might be. Man, I 200 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:05.250 love that those visualization tools can be really, really important. We just had 201 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:11.490 Nancy Duarte on the podcast talking about her new her new book data story, 202 00:13:11.649 --> 00:13:15.080 and one of the things we talked about was, you know, oftentimes we 203 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.799 look at the data but we don't call out the point that we want people 204 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.519 to key in on. And you know, you're not talking about necessarily communicating 205 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.509 that externally. You're talking about looking at it yourself, but just realizing that 206 00:13:26.669 --> 00:13:31.110 we need that. We need, you know, for something to jump out 207 00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:33.509 to us so that we can recognize those patterns, and a word clouds is 208 00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:35.750 a great way to do this. When you're looking at this, you know, 209 00:13:35.830 --> 00:13:41.190 qualitative trans sort of analysis. So talk to us, Josh, about 210 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:45.860 phase three. We've found the watering holes, we've analyzed the patterns, focusing 211 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:50.659 on the qualitative, how do we start to transition that into messaging for our 212 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:54.299 ad campaigns, because that's eventually where we want to go right exactly? Yeah, 213 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:58.730 this isn't just an exercise to do for fun and for stock and people. 214 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:01.049 What you really want to do is able to turn this into an actionable, 215 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:05.049 you know, piece of copy or creative, you know, wherever you're 216 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:07.090 using it. So one thing I'll mention, though, on the analysis side 217 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:11.120 of it, is you really want to key into the emotional trigger words, 218 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.679 and so that is is really, really important, because you want to pay 219 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.240 attention to the things. It's say, I hate or you know, this 220 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.879 kills me, or whatever whatever the emotional true your word might be. That's 221 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.389 where people are really feeling pain and it's where you can potentially come in and 222 00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:30.110 tap into that pain. And reposition your client or your own business, you 223 00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:33.549 know, in a positive life. So pay attention to those. But yes, 224 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:35.830 when it comes to the implementation phase, really what you're trying to do 225 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.740 is synthesize the patterns that you've uncovered from your research and then convert that into 226 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:46.860 a very concise kind of messaging point. And so the way that we do 227 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:50.299 this is we create a very simple matrix and we say, okay, here's 228 00:14:50.299 --> 00:14:54.049 the persona call them whatever you want to call them. Really here's the pain 229 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.169 that they're trying to solve or the outcome that they're trying to achieve, and 230 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.490 then the last piece of it is the product story. So, basically, 231 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:07.320 based on what we've been covered and based on this concise understanding of what really 232 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.840 their most pain or ask or highest aspiration is, using their own language, 233 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.879 how do we position in our products according to that narrative? So what's the 234 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.759 product story? What's the story that we tell to this person about how we 235 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:24.429 can help them get what they want? And that really just becomes the basis 236 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:30.309 for any sort of add copy testing or visual creatives that you use. And 237 00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:31.990 just want to give you, guys, a concrete example of how this has 238 00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:37.059 worked. So we had a client in a very competitive software space where there's 239 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:39.379 some really big income and players with, you know, Mans of dollars spent 240 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:43.340 every month on paid search. So we went through this exact same exercience, 241 00:15:45.139 --> 00:15:48.860 with a few more bells and whistles, but effectively the same exercize. And 242 00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:52.210 then we covered that. You know, some of the the biggest gripes that 243 00:15:52.370 --> 00:15:56.850 our prospects had were about customer service. Just took so long for anybody to 244 00:15:56.889 --> 00:16:02.210 get back to them. Now our client was not thinking about that at all. 245 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:04.600 Their thing about the features of their platform. They're thinking about all the 246 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.039 ways that they do x, Y and Z better. But our research and 247 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:12.080 covered this huge pain point, which is the real emotional driver. And they 248 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.840 say that people buy an emotion. They buy what they justify with logic, 249 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.110 and so we use that. We literally we didn't get to creative with it. 250 00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:22.389 We're just said, you know, in a campaign that targeted all over 251 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:26.710 competitors users, we basically said tired of waiting days on end for an answer. 252 00:16:27.149 --> 00:16:32.980 Get two seven fast customer service. Let's talk more whatever that it's not 253 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:34.500 what it said about. It is. It's effectively that. But but that 254 00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:40.659 shift of the customer service pain point, nothing about the features, the benefits, 255 00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:45.019 the pain of what the products solved, because what you found is that 256 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.529 those customers of that competitor, they weren't talking about lack of features. They 257 00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:52.529 they're satisfied there. So if you're like, well, we're two percent better 258 00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:56.690 here, right, versus this area where they're a fifty out of a hundred 259 00:16:56.730 --> 00:17:00.169 and you can take them to ninety, that's a more compelling jump for those 260 00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.399 prospects. Right. That's it, man, and really I mean the outcome 261 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.599 here was that their costproly dropped by eighty percent. Their sales pipeline for in 262 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.799 terms of like Book Strategy Calls, which was the key metric, was to 263 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.150 the roof, and so we're able to take their budget and get way more 264 00:17:17.190 --> 00:17:19.430 leverage out of it, one because of the platforms that we chose to try 265 00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:22.349 to like go where the competitors weren't going. But a big driver of it 266 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:26.309 was just tapping into the emotion, in the pain of the audience that they 267 00:17:26.390 --> 00:17:30.059 never really thought of when they invested alldest time and money building they're really great 268 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.619 products. I love it, man, that that's such a really great tactical 269 00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:37.579 example and we love given listeners here, you know, something they can walk 270 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:40.299 away with. So, you know, just to recap for folks, this 271 00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:44.180 three phase approach that Josh and his team, you know, are executing on 272 00:17:44.259 --> 00:17:47.569 a regular basis. Thing about finding those watering holes you talked about, you 273 00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:51.930 know, review sites, communities and forums, as well as resource commune unities, 274 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:56.049 analyzing the patterns, focusing, as you mentioned here in this last example, 275 00:17:56.569 --> 00:18:00.240 on the qualitative, on those emotional trigger words, and then converting that 276 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.480 into a messaging strategy, which you guys have, you know, built out 277 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:08.880 a matrix for to organize that. Josh, if anybody listening to this would 278 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.269 like to reach out pick your brain a little bit more on this topic or 279 00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:15.190 just stay connected with you in the team over at ever try man, what 280 00:18:15.309 --> 00:18:18.670 would be the best way for them to go about doing that? Yeah, 281 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:21.829 for sure. We're pretty easy to find. You know, everything ember tribe 282 00:18:21.829 --> 00:18:26.910 away. It is going to be ember tribecom, which is emder tribecom. 283 00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:32.339 People can email me there. It's Josh at what you might think the company 284 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:36.420 is, and I'm on twitter, I'm on Linkedin. Happy to connect and 285 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:41.019 I need those platforms answer questions, have a reconversation awesome and I appreciate you 286 00:18:41.059 --> 00:18:44.930 actually giving us all three phases to the approach, not just one of them 287 00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:48.289 today. I think it's going to deliver a ton of value to listeners. 288 00:18:48.329 --> 00:18:53.210 Thanks so much for being on the show man. Thanks lag. We totally 289 00:18:53.289 --> 00:18:57.079 get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can 290 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.839 be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BTB growth 291 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.640 big three, a note fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from 292 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.390 an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. 293 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:15.109 That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM big three.