1205: The 1 Mistake to Avoid When Telling Your Brand's Story w/ Nancy Duarte

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.310 Hey there. This is James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media and one 2 00:00:08.310 --> 00:00:11.189 of the cohosts of this show. For the last year and a half I've 3 00:00:11.189 --> 00:00:14.990 been working on my very first book. In the book I share the three 4 00:00:15.029 --> 00:00:18.910 part framework we've used as the foundation for our growth. Here is sweetfish. 5 00:00:19.350 --> 00:00:22.620 Now there are lots of companies that everased a bunch of money and have grown 6 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:25.579 insanely fast, and we featured a lot of them here on the show. 7 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:30.579 We've decided to bootstrap our business, which usually equates to pretty slow growth, 8 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:34.700 but using the strategy outlined in the book, we are on pace to be 9 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:38.649 one of inks fastest growing companies in two thousand and twenty. The book is 10 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:42.729 called content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 11 00:00:43.289 --> 00:00:45.329 If you're a fan of audio books like me, you can find the 12 00:00:45.369 --> 00:00:48.369 book on audible, or if you like physical books, you can also find 13 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:53.520 it on Amazon. Just search content based networking or James Carberry, CR be 14 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:58.280 aary, inaudible or Amazon and it should pop right up. All right, 15 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:03.439 let's get into the show. Welcome back to be to be growth on Logan 16 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.269 lyles with sweet fish media. I'm joined today by Nancy Twarte. She is 17 00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:11.150 the CEO of Duarte Ink. She's also a best selling author. Her most 18 00:01:11.230 --> 00:01:15.269 recent book, data story, explain data and inspire action through story, is 19 00:01:15.310 --> 00:01:18.230 going to be a big part of the conversation today. Nancy, welcome to 20 00:01:18.230 --> 00:01:19.780 the show. How's it going today? That's going great. Thanks for having 21 00:01:19.780 --> 00:01:25.140 me. Absolutely Nancy. We just had to have you on because, you 22 00:01:25.219 --> 00:01:27.219 know, a lot of marketers that we talked to today are feeling this tension 23 00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:32.700 between being data driven and being creative and being a good storyteller, and I 24 00:01:32.819 --> 00:01:36.450 love the way that your book, data story kind of brings those together. 25 00:01:36.650 --> 00:01:40.609 Before we get into some of the tactical applications that we want to unpack from 26 00:01:40.609 --> 00:01:44.370 your book today, I would love for you to let people know who aren't 27 00:01:44.370 --> 00:01:47.359 as familiar with you, a little bit about yourself and what you and your 28 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.959 team are up to these days. Awesome. Yeah, I write books, 29 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:56.000 but I have a firm called to Ourte that helps millions of people communicate better 30 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:00.000 so that they can change themselves and change their organizations for the better, and 31 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:06.349 we do that through empathetic communication, planning and Story Infused Presentations and delivery coaching. 32 00:02:06.469 --> 00:02:08.389 So we'll either do it for you as a service or will teach you 33 00:02:08.990 --> 00:02:13.669 how to be a brilliant communicator for yourself. I love it and said so 34 00:02:13.750 --> 00:02:16.580 so succinctly. Obviously you guys practice what you preach. So, Nancy, 35 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:21.860 we're going to be talking about, you know, for key sections from your 36 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:24.819 book. You know, you talk about communicating with data, applying a story 37 00:02:24.939 --> 00:02:30.090 structure, using clear visuals and making the data stick. I'm really excited to 38 00:02:30.210 --> 00:02:35.129 dive into that fourth one because I think that's that's where a lot of marketers 39 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:38.569 that we speak to struggle. Either they you know, they have a lot 40 00:02:38.610 --> 00:02:43.490 of data, but they struggle with communicating it and especially getting it to stick. 41 00:02:43.569 --> 00:02:46.439 And a fellow podcaster, Ja Conzo, he's been talking a lot about 42 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.840 you know, in marketing it's not about just gaining attention, it's about holding 43 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:53.159 it, and I think that'll be, you know, I key part of 44 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.439 the things that we talk about today. As we jump into the First Section 45 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:00.629 of your book, communicating with data, can you tell us a little bit 46 00:03:00.669 --> 00:03:04.830 about, you know, just in general, but especially in the context of 47 00:03:05.710 --> 00:03:10.110 marketing and brands, where they're getting it wrong in just approaching the data that 48 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:14.460 they have, in trying to communicate with it. Yeah, it's interesting because 49 00:03:14.500 --> 00:03:19.219 I'm marketing has become used to be considered more of a creative kind of a 50 00:03:19.819 --> 00:03:23.139 role, and now that data is part of it. We have a lot 51 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:27.250 of people that are way deep in the insights and deep, deep, deep 52 00:03:27.289 --> 00:03:30.930 in the data, and a lot of times what happens is we they see 53 00:03:30.050 --> 00:03:35.370 insights in the data. We and can actually even see the action to take 54 00:03:35.409 --> 00:03:38.490 in the data, but sometimes they don't know how to shape it as a 55 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:43.759 communicator. So it's back to that like ability to be able to form a 56 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:46.879 point of view. You find the there's one of two things happens when you're 57 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.240 digging in the data. You identify a problem or you see an opportunity. 58 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.639 How you package that problem and opportunity that you found in the data will determine 59 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:59.110 about what whether your data was useful or not. So you have to actually 60 00:03:59.110 --> 00:04:02.509 shape it in a very meaningful and and a powerful way, but also give 61 00:04:02.550 --> 00:04:06.150 yourself permission to do more than just be the data Geek. You have to 62 00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:12.060 take a point of view and actually unpack that, or it won't go anywhere. 63 00:04:12.060 --> 00:04:15.699 I love that. Do you? Do you recommend, and maybe this 64 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:18.540 leads us into then the next section of your book. Talking about the story 65 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:23.899 structure. You know, you either identify a problem or an opportunity. You 66 00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:28.569 know it is there kind of a way to approach. Okay, we want 67 00:04:28.569 --> 00:04:31.529 to talk about the problem or we want to communicate the opportunity. which should 68 00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:35.290 marketers kind of key in on? First, do they? Do you see 69 00:04:35.329 --> 00:04:39.319 them? You know, getting one before the other? Sometimes, once that 70 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:43.319 data starts to bubble up to the surface, I think sometimes it there's a 71 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.759 three act structure, a way to actually convey it in the shape of a 72 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.680 data story, whether it is an opportunity or a problem. It's just a 73 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:54.629 matter of being able to take a stance on the data. So many people 74 00:04:54.910 --> 00:04:57.550 that are in data feel like, oh, it's not it's outside by pay 75 00:04:57.589 --> 00:05:00.430 grade to take a stance on it or create a point of view about it. 76 00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:02.230 And your point of view will be a problem or an opportunity. And 77 00:05:02.310 --> 00:05:08.259 some people don't like to be wrong and they won't take a stance and and 78 00:05:09.019 --> 00:05:11.939 so that's the big thing. So then, once you find the problem or 79 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:15.699 the opportunity, you would definitely shape it into a three act story structure. 80 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:21.209 I love it. So it doesn't necessarily matter problem or opportunity, whichever you're 81 00:05:21.209 --> 00:05:25.810 keying in on, but apply that that three act structure to it and make 82 00:05:25.850 --> 00:05:29.170 sure that you take a stand. I mean James and I, the founder 83 00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:32.529 of sweet fish here. We regularly do behind the curtains episodes where we talked 84 00:05:32.529 --> 00:05:35.680 about some of the things that we're learning and we did an entire episode on 85 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:40.959 the fact that thought leadership is talked about a lot in marketing today, especially 86 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.759 in B tob and you can't really be a thought leader unless you take a 87 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.519 stand on something. You know you are going to repel some people, but 88 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.470 you are going to draw those who, as Simon Sene says, you know 89 00:05:50.589 --> 00:05:56.670 believe what you believe, draw them closer into you. As people start to 90 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:00.230 take that stand, tell that story. Something I've heard, you know, 91 00:06:00.350 --> 00:06:02.230 Donald Miller talk about is, you know, we get it wrong. We 92 00:06:02.990 --> 00:06:06.420 start to tell the story, but we're the center of the story. Can 93 00:06:06.459 --> 00:06:10.220 you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, he, yeah, I 94 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:14.420 adore him and we he learned some of those concepts from my Ted talk, 95 00:06:14.459 --> 00:06:18.089 which is a lot about when we are the communicator. Sometimes we feel like 96 00:06:18.170 --> 00:06:21.529 we're the central figure. Right we are talking the most we have something very 97 00:06:21.569 --> 00:06:27.290 urgent that we feel needs to be conveyed but in reality that communicator is not 98 00:06:27.449 --> 00:06:30.930 the hero or the central figure of what needs to happen. The audiences, 99 00:06:30.009 --> 00:06:33.160 who you're speaking to is so, if you don't communicate in a way that's 100 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.519 empathetic to the people in the room, your idea will die. Like they 101 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.439 are the hero. They are the ones that will grab your idea and run 102 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.759 with it. They will grab your idea and make it happen. They will 103 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.829 grab your idea and turn it into actions. And if you don't consider them 104 00:06:46.910 --> 00:06:51.310 and defer to them as the hero of your messaging, they will not run 105 00:06:51.350 --> 00:06:55.470 out with your idea. They you know they and so you. In reality, 106 00:06:55.550 --> 00:07:00.069 in this relationship with who you're talking to, the communicator's role is one 107 00:07:00.149 --> 00:07:03.779 of mentor. We insert ourselves into the life of our audience or readership or 108 00:07:03.860 --> 00:07:09.060 listenership at a moment where we're there to help them get unstuck. It's not 109 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:12.500 about me, it's not about how, it's not about my company, it's 110 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:15.370 not about any of that. It's really about helping others get unstuck. So 111 00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:20.689 the stance of how you communicate changes when you consider the audience the hero and 112 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:26.569 you as the mentor. I see that a lot in just you know, 113 00:07:26.649 --> 00:07:30.000 you can read those stale press releases. You know we are an industry leader 114 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:35.240 in Ducta Duto Don, and it just automatically has this tone when you put 115 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.399 it in this context, right Nancy, where they're trying to make their company 116 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:45.350 the hero of the sort. We have this to offer. And what you 117 00:07:45.470 --> 00:07:47.870 talk about is we need to be Yoda to Luke, we need to do 118 00:07:48.149 --> 00:07:51.750 dumbledore to Harry Potter, we need to be and off to Froda, whichever 119 00:07:51.990 --> 00:07:57.470 you know, franchise books or thats that you like the most. And tell 120 00:07:57.550 --> 00:08:01.060 me a little bit about you know what, what really is the impact there 121 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:07.500 of inserting yourself as as the Guide or the mentor rather than framing yourself as 122 00:08:07.540 --> 00:08:11.220 the hero, and how people are able to identify and insert themselves into that 123 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:16.170 story. Then, yeah, to make your product or service desirable, it 124 00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.810 has to have usefulness to the consumer, whether that's a be to be or 125 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:26.730 BBC consumer that's going to consume your goods or services and they're just, you 126 00:08:26.810 --> 00:08:30.480 know, running around in their own life and they're when they get stuck. 127 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.159 That's the role of a mentor. So in myths and movies, and mentor 128 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.159 does three things and helps the hero get on stuck. It brings a magical 129 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.789 gift or a special tool. Every time your customer interacts with you. They 130 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:43.590 should feel that way. What I'm unstuck. Oh my gosh, I had 131 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:46.830 this new magical skill or this new magical tool that's going to help me be 132 00:08:48.070 --> 00:08:52.029 help me be better, help me be stronger. You think about the moments 133 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:56.580 in a movie when the mentor stepped in. They usually needed a bit of 134 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:00.179 guidance, they needed a new you know, they needed a lightsaber and the 135 00:09:00.299 --> 00:09:03.820 force, you know, and that's what we're to be to our customers. 136 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:09.340 Is this, this this magical presence that helps them in their journey. And 137 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:11.490 so we get so caught up in our own journey sometimes that we forget we're 138 00:09:11.529 --> 00:09:16.490 actually a moment and someone else's journey. That's a very important moment for them 139 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:18.929 to get unstuck. I love that. And the thing, you know, 140 00:09:20.169 --> 00:09:22.610 that that I've heard as well on this point, is when we frame ourselves 141 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:28.840 in our brand as the hero, what we forget is that three quarters or 142 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.279 two thirds of the movie typically the hero is in a pretty bad state. 143 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.720 They're trying to get down stock their week, they're they're trying to get up 144 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.429 the mountain, and so by framing ourselves is the hero and saying, Oh, 145 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:43.509 we have all the answers. It doesn't quite fit with the narrative that 146 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:46.909 we understand and myths of movies. Right exactly. Actually, there's math. 147 00:09:46.070 --> 00:09:50.789 It's eighty percent of the story is actually conflict is in the CONTON the middle. 148 00:09:52.350 --> 00:09:56.539 So the first act is only ten percent, the main conflict where the 149 00:09:56.820 --> 00:10:01.139 protagonist is going through all this stuff, is eighty percent and then the ending 150 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:03.379 is ten percent. If you can believe that, you're right. Yeah. 151 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:09.129 So tell me a little bit, Nancy, about as we apply this story 152 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:13.690 structure to data. What are some of the things that you recommend to to 153 00:10:13.889 --> 00:10:16.289 help folks who are trying to communicate, especially folks listening to this that are 154 00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:20.250 in BB marketing? How can they take that data? As you mentioned, 155 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.360 first step is identify the problem or opportunity. Now you want to apply, 156 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:31.320 by a repeatable the three act structure of a story to to that data. 157 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.200 You don't want to make yourself the hero, you want to make your buyers 158 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:39.110 the hero, making that data stick, telling a compelling story. What are 159 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:45.509 some of the common characteristics when you see great presentations, great stories and maybe 160 00:10:45.590 --> 00:10:48.990 great presentations is, you know, a bit of an oxymoron there because you 161 00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:52.539 know, as you said before, presentations usually make us fall asleep, where 162 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:56.539 stories make us come alive. Tell us about some of the pitfalls and opportunities 163 00:10:56.580 --> 00:11:01.379 there as we get to the next stage and start to communicate and try and 164 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:03.889 get this data to stick in folks minds. Yeah, what's interesting, especially 165 00:11:03.889 --> 00:11:09.370 about marketers, there's there's two ways we use presentation software. One of them 166 00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:13.570 is for a stage to talk or really kind of controlled meeting where you've got 167 00:11:13.809 --> 00:11:16.730 messaging that's very important, like an all hands meeting or an industry event. 168 00:11:18.289 --> 00:11:20.759 But a lot of times the people working in data and marketing are creating what 169 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.000 we've coined as slide docs, and you can actually go to slide dockscom and 170 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.039 download these beautiful templates. This data story book is a little bit more centralized 171 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.830 on the slide dot concept, which is I found a problem opportunity in the 172 00:11:33.909 --> 00:11:37.590 data and now I need to unpack it, show the statistics and we're going 173 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:41.710 to take it make a recommendation that's going to lead to action. So what's 174 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:46.620 interesting is a data story comes long before a presentation or an industry meeting. 175 00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:50.059 What you've done is found a problem opportunity, we're going to take action and 176 00:11:50.179 --> 00:11:56.899 then once that recommendation gets approved by an executive or gets funded, then it 177 00:11:56.019 --> 00:12:00.419 kicks off a whole bunch of presenting that needs to happen. So data, 178 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:03.889 a lot of times is put into a slide doc and this whole book is 179 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.529 a lot about how do you frame what you're asking people to do? How 180 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:11.850 do you pick the best verb? So I went through thousands of slides. 181 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:15.840 We have the honor and privilege of working the highest performing brands in the world 182 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:20.240 and have for almost thirty years, and we sust out. We I analyzed 183 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.240 all these data slides and the the funnest thing to find was a pattern to 184 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:30.429 the verbs. There's performance verbs and process verbs and then there's modality verbs. 185 00:12:30.470 --> 00:12:33.710 And to get it on and have it resonate on the desk of an executive, 186 00:12:33.750 --> 00:12:37.669 you got to pick the right verb. It's actually which is the most 187 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:39.990 important thing. What is the action I need to do from the data and 188 00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:43.299 what is the best verb that's going to resonate so this gets approved and we 189 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:48.179 move forward. So it's a lot about speeding up decisionmaking and communication around the 190 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:54.659 data and using a three act story structure and a three act supporting structure to 191 00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:58.970 communicate in a way so it gets traction, decisions get made quicker. In 192 00:12:58.129 --> 00:13:01.450 my own firm, like I don't know, having data in a way has 193 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:05.570 slowed things down because, you know, we used to just manage from our 194 00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:09.049 gut sometimes and we would get to a bright reading and we've got all this 195 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.480 consensus, everyone's excited and then someone will be like, do you think we 196 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.480 can get data to support this? Is the exact right decision, a way 197 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.720 to go, you know, and so it's like it we just got to 198 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.799 make data work for US instead of US working for the data. Yeah, 199 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:28.070 can you speak to those you touched their Nancy on the those three verb types, 200 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:33.190 performance, process and modality? When, when each is is best use? 201 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:39.149 Kind of unpacked the differences there as folks think about. I'm just coming 202 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:41.580 off of our annual leadership team retreat here as we fish that you and I 203 00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:46.539 were talking about, and this this idea that man words matters as we pick 204 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:50.620 our objectives for the year and those sorts of things. So I'm kind of 205 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:54.899 geeking out on on verbage and on words right now. So I'd love to 206 00:13:54.980 --> 00:13:58.169 dig into those three that you touched on there a little bit. Yeah, 207 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:00.769 it's great because I was going to say that as we were talking about okay, 208 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:05.649 ours and what there's different verbs that you use and some are performance verbs 209 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:09.080 and some are process verbs. So a performance verb would be something very closely 210 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.559 tied to a KPI or an OK are. It's something that actually is a 211 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.399 something that's big and can be measured. Your process verbs are that are the 212 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:24.120 smaller actions you're going to take to accomplish this big performance verbs. So if 213 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.429 you look at like to run, is is maybe the performance you're going to 214 00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:28.350 do, but the actions you're going to take it. You're going to pump 215 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.350 your arms, you're going to breathe three lungs, you're going to pump your 216 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:35.029 legs. So there's micro verbs that support the bigger performance verb and you can 217 00:14:35.070 --> 00:14:39.139 kind of tell if you've picked a process for because it's kind of binary. 218 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:41.659 You've either done it or you've not done it, whereas a performance verb is 219 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:48.500 more measured over time and you're actually improving or increasing or changing the data trajectory. 220 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:50.299 Like the hopes, this is what the data says. Oh it's a 221 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.649 problem, so we need to put a performance verb in place. So we 222 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:58.169 change the data is trajectory. So that was one of the funnest findings in 223 00:14:58.289 --> 00:15:01.450 this whole thing. And I gave like a whole page to all the different 224 00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:05.490 verbs so you can actually see them sorted in performance birds. And then the 225 00:15:05.529 --> 00:15:11.159 modalities are are we going to change? Is How are we changing? Are 226 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:16.240 we staying steadfast or are we the modality chart in front of me. But 227 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.149 they all kind of feed into accomplishing your outcomes, right. So I want 228 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:26.110 to touch on something that that you mentioned there a second ago, talking about 229 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:28.629 slide docks, talking about, you know, the another big section of the 230 00:15:28.669 --> 00:15:33.950 book is communicating with clear visuals. And you know, we're an audio only 231 00:15:33.950 --> 00:15:37.340 podcast, so folks can't see, you know, the the data story book 232 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.539 here on on my desk. But one of the things that you just struck 233 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:43.259 me as, and this is a big, thick book, it's large, 234 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:48.659 Brent, but it's very easy to be able to flip through and grab some 235 00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:52.009 some nuggets and be pulled in at a certain point. So I would love 236 00:15:52.049 --> 00:15:54.929 for you to speak to, you know, the power of visuals where folks 237 00:15:54.970 --> 00:15:58.730 are kind of maybe getting it wrong. You talked a little bit about, 238 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:03.889 you know, where data is initially gathered than in how that's translated to presentations. 239 00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:07.519 There can be somewhat of a disconnect there, right yeah, and I 240 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.080 think it's easy to make things complicated visually pretty quickly and it did fill a 241 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.279 little bit like hypocrisy if I couldn't create a book that lived up to everything 242 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:21.950 that the book states. Never there were some neat visual revelations that I have. 243 00:16:22.190 --> 00:16:23.990 So there's a lot of intent in this book that's not out there. 244 00:16:25.149 --> 00:16:29.110 When I went through these thousands of data slides and tape them up on my 245 00:16:29.309 --> 00:16:33.659 wall, there was actually a pattern that I'd never seen before and that was 246 00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:37.980 the pattern of annotations. Like when you visualize data, are you know, 247 00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:41.539 Excel, tableau, all those tools. They've gotten better and at plotting the 248 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:45.860 charts. Our charts aren't by default ugly now. They used to be ugly 249 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:49.009 by default less than five years ago. But what my team does that was 250 00:16:49.090 --> 00:16:52.970 so spectacular. Actually just got emotional when I saw it, is we don't 251 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:56.809 just plot the chart. So we'll plot the chart, maybe put it in 252 00:16:56.169 --> 00:17:00.929 the presentation tool, but then we annotate it. We put a whole nother 253 00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:04.160 layer of communication that says, MMM, the most important thing on. Here 254 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.920 is the gap between the height of these two bars, and will visually identify 255 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.480 new math, will add them math. That's the gap between the two bars, 256 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.150 and then we will visually draw the eye into the gap, let's say. 257 00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:19.710 So there's this whole annotation taxonomy, and here too, that's really powerful 258 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:23.230 of what you need to do to overlay on top of your data that's clean 259 00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:29.150 and clear and simple, so that what's the most important thing will stand out. 260 00:17:29.349 --> 00:17:32.740 And that's the thing about visuals. You need to mute, visually mute 261 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:36.980 some things and make other things contrast out against it, and you need to 262 00:17:37.059 --> 00:17:40.619 be wise and understanding. What is the one thing? If they picked up 263 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:42.579 one thing from this visual what is the one thing? I want them to 264 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.970 know? And I'm telling you a lot of times with charts it's not exactly 265 00:17:47.049 --> 00:17:51.970 clear what the one thing is and and it's the communicator's job to make that 266 00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:56.970 clear visually and verbally and in writing. So I mean that that just makes 267 00:17:57.009 --> 00:18:00.400 a lot of sense to me. Nancy is, regular listeners of the show 268 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.720 know that. You know I have a journalism background and I think of two 269 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:08.559 things I learned. There was a photojournalism major and I remember learning that okay, 270 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:12.670 the the brightest spot in a photo is where your eyes go tomp by 271 00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:15.269 default, which is why you don't want, you know, a backlet window 272 00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:19.670 behind the person you're photographing, right. And also, you know, in 273 00:18:19.829 --> 00:18:23.470 design and just text layout, you know, just learning about the way that 274 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:29.220 you know magazines and entire archy and hierarchy. Right, if there's if there's 275 00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:32.220 no one thing, then your eyes get lost, you get tired and you 276 00:18:32.299 --> 00:18:33.579 move on to the next thing, and I think we forget about that as 277 00:18:33.619 --> 00:18:37.339 we communicate with charts and graphs and other visual forms. Exactly. And I 278 00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:41.329 think chunk of this book is about hierarchy, like not only on the slide 279 00:18:41.329 --> 00:18:45.490 itself, but also the hierarchy of the of the document, of the recommendation 280 00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:48.769 that you're making in the slide software. So it's kind of cool. I 281 00:18:48.849 --> 00:18:53.490 love this book. I mean it makes me think of another journalism slogan, 282 00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.440 right, like don't bury the lead. That so much data, you've done 283 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.720 so much work to find that one. not lead with it lead eggs. 284 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:04.640 Exactly. That's a super good metaphor. I wish I put that in the 285 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:10.150 book because that's exactly right. Well, that's what we'll have to will have 286 00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:12.950 to share. As you know, our main key takeaway from from this if 287 00:19:12.990 --> 00:19:18.349 we've, you know, distilled some some good data from your research on data 288 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:22.710 in this one podcast. Our key takeaways, you know, don't marry the 289 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:26.900 lead on that note, Nancy. Any other key takeaways as we wrap today 290 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:32.019 for bb marketers who are trying to tell better stories with their data, make 291 00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:37.940 it stick, communicate visually more succinctly in a more compelling fashion that drives action, 292 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:41.490 anything else you want to leave folks with today? But I think one 293 00:19:41.529 --> 00:19:45.369 of the other things that takes some creative thinking when you're working with data is 294 00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.049 how to make it relatable. So we're starting to work with numbers that are 295 00:19:48.089 --> 00:19:53.599 just unprecedented in business history right where we just like let millions and billions blurred 296 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.279 out of our mouths without really understanding the scale of some of these numbers. 297 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:02.480 And so some sometimes, when you're trying to persuade somebody to take up your 298 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.880 recommendation you're making from data, you can make the data more relatable by connecting 299 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:11.950 it to something that they're familiar with. And there's tons of examples in the 300 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:15.950 book about how to take something like the word million or billion and translated into 301 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:19.309 something. So they're like, Oh wow, they get their head around their 302 00:20:19.309 --> 00:20:22.460 number. That like, oh my gosh, the scale of this problem or 303 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:25.099 oh my gosh, the scale of this opportunity. I get it. And 304 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:30.339 you make it more tangible by connecting your data to a relatable thing or a 305 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.900 relatable person or relatable speed or a relatable distance or something like that. So 306 00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:37.329 that's another thing that I love everyone to take a look at because it's a 307 00:20:37.450 --> 00:20:41.210 really powerful way to persuade. HMM. Yeah, I mean it makes me 308 00:20:41.289 --> 00:20:45.250 think of a segment ie on CBS Sunday morning a few weeks back, talking 309 00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:51.400 about dollar stores and the correlation on the number of dollar stores was there's four 310 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:56.279 dollar stores in America than McDonald's and starbucks locations combined. Now, my Gosh, 311 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.480 that wasn't right there. There we go. See they did a job 312 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.720 of it and that wasn't even like, you know, you think of well, 313 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.390 that's that's like, you know, circling the earth ten times with, 314 00:21:06.789 --> 00:21:08.789 you know, a humans laid down. Like you can go that route, 315 00:21:08.789 --> 00:21:11.950 but sometimes it could be a little closer to home. You know, we 316 00:21:12.150 --> 00:21:17.789 just in in that example that I just shared got you to say, Oh 317 00:21:17.869 --> 00:21:22.700 my God, right there but it was just comparing retail locations to other retail 318 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:26.900 locations, but it was something that was easily recognizable that you know people are 319 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:30.779 going to have a mental picture of and how they can compare it. As 320 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:33.049 you probably like, these numbers are so big. If I was to say 321 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.210 that's like going to the Moon in that twenty two two, first time I've 322 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:37.970 been at the moon. Have you been there? You ever been to the 323 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:41.329 moment? YEA very point. So you have to translate it into something they 324 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:44.569 can connect to, just like what you did, where they're like, oh 325 00:21:44.569 --> 00:21:47.920 my God, that's a huge number, and there's a real tips and tricks 326 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.079 on how to do that. So there's a section about that. I love 327 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:53.519 it. Well, Nancy, I could continue this conversation for a lot of 328 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.480 time. I really appreciate it. This has been a lot of fun. 329 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.200 I feel like it's gotten just better as you and I have spent more time 330 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.950 together today. For folks who want to stay connected with you, want to 331 00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:08.589 continue following your content, maybe find a copy of data story. What's the 332 00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:12.029 best way for them to reach out, stay connected or find the book? 333 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:18.059 Yeah, so we have to Ourtacom. I'm up on twitter at Nancy to 334 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:21.900 our te up on facebook. All the linked and I actually connect to everyone 335 00:22:21.940 --> 00:22:25.980 who connects to me. The books are online and all the places and in 336 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:29.819 physical stores to and at airport's. Right now, for the next few months 337 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:33.289 they're all over the airports, which is fun, very nice, and I 338 00:22:33.329 --> 00:22:37.329 can tell you you know, if you're looking to to read on the plane 339 00:22:37.410 --> 00:22:40.690 and actually consume something and not just you know, something that will put you 340 00:22:40.730 --> 00:22:44.920 to sleep. There's tons of visuals and keep you engaged and could actually make 341 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.519 that flight more productive. So definitely recommend that if you're if you're traveling here. 342 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.839 So I'm glad you made that note. Well, Nancy, this has 343 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:53.920 been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. 344 00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:00.829 Thank you so much. This was so fun. Hey, everybody, Logan 345 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:03.789 with sweetfish here. If you're a regular listener of BB growth, you know 346 00:23:03.950 --> 00:23:07.829 that I'm one of the cohosts of this show, but you may not know 347 00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:11.230 that I also head up the sales team here, is sweetfish. So for 348 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.740 those of you in sales or sales offs, I wanted to take a second 349 00:23:14.779 --> 00:23:18.180 to share something that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been 350 00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:22.059 using lead Iq for the past few months and what used to take us four 351 00:23:22.180 --> 00:23:27.250 hours gathering contact data now takes us only one. We're seventy five percent more 352 00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:33.849 efficient. We're able to move faster withoutbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so 353 00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:37.369 much easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead Iq as 354 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:42.359 well. You can check them out at lead iqcom. That's Elle a d 355 00:23:42.920 --> iqcom.