1201: How to Double CTA Button Conversions w/ Paul Hager

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:11.949 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:16.910 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:17.030 --> 00:00:21.390 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:25.300 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:34.740 Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to beb growth, a daily podcast for BB leaders. 6 00:00:35.299 --> 00:00:38.810 We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon 7 00:00:38.890 --> 00:00:43.210 Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's 8 00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:47.890 because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of 9 00:00:47.969 --> 00:00:52.560 our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, 10 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:57.159 they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing betb companies in the 11 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.759 world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweetish media, 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.750 a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of 13 00:01:03.829 --> 00:01:08.069 this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories 14 00:01:08.109 --> 00:01:11.670 from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs 15 00:01:11.709 --> 00:01:17.109 of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well. 16 00:01:17.750 --> 00:01:26.739 Maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to be to be growth. 17 00:01:26.859 --> 00:01:30.659 I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. Today I'm joined by Paul Hagar. 18 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:36.129 He is the CEO over it information technology professionals. Paul, how are 19 00:01:36.129 --> 00:01:38.650 you doing today, sir? Good are you Logan? I am doing fantastic. 20 00:01:38.689 --> 00:01:42.250 I'm getting ready for the holidays. Folks will probably listen to this somewhere 21 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:47.840 between Christmas and New Year's. Hope everybody out there is enjoying the the season 22 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.000 now when, whenever they're listening, or however they're listening to this. Paul, 23 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.079 I'm excited to dig into today's topic. We're going to be talking about 24 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.680 why marketing with faces matter, and one of the mantras here at sweetfish lately 25 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:04.670 has been people connect with people way more than they do with logos and how 26 00:02:04.829 --> 00:02:07.870 that informs your marketing approach. And we're going to be talking about some surprising 27 00:02:07.949 --> 00:02:12.710 stats, some things that you guys have done to lean into this truth. 28 00:02:12.990 --> 00:02:15.669 But before we jump straight into that, Paul, I'd love for you to 29 00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:17.780 give us a little bit of context at share with listeners a little bit about 30 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:21.979 your background and what you and your team are up to these days. Sure, 31 00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:23.860 great. So, yeah, my name is Paul Hager. I'm the 32 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:29.539 CEO BYTP here at a Wisconsin where I'm in a service provider. My background 33 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:34.650 in education is actually in law and I ended up in the text space and 34 00:02:34.729 --> 00:02:38.889 a software startup first in providing voice to text technology in the legal space and 35 00:02:38.969 --> 00:02:45.319 sold that business and acquired a legal focused MSP that we've then added just a 36 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.680 couple verticals to and grown. We've been in being five thousand fastest growing company 37 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.479 five years in a row as we've built out a really solid man of service, 38 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:58.400 cloud and security practice in the Midwest that now we're we've been taking nationwide 39 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:00.189 over the last few years. That's been really exciting. Yeah, you guys 40 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:05.189 have had some phenomenal growth. So we always love to look at folks who 41 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:07.469 are who are growing, who are scaling, and what are some of the 42 00:03:07.509 --> 00:03:10.710 things that they're doing differently, and I think a lot of people listening to 43 00:03:10.870 --> 00:03:14.939 this probably, you know, are nodding their heads that, yeah, people 44 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:19.539 connect with people, but I think it's worthwhile to actually dig into some of 45 00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:23.379 the research, some of these statistics that that point to this truth and then 46 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:27.330 talk about some of the ways that we can lean into it. What are 47 00:03:27.409 --> 00:03:30.530 some of the things that you've learned, read learned along the way in your 48 00:03:30.569 --> 00:03:35.129 career, Paul, that if caused you and your team to really lean into 49 00:03:35.370 --> 00:03:39.129 this aspect of marketing with faces and putting humans front and center? Yeah, 50 00:03:39.689 --> 00:03:44.439 we are all humans and we all have brains, and you got to kind 51 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.039 of go back to the research about how our brains have been built and wired 52 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.159 over the course of time and as you look to the research, just the 53 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:54.750 data shows that, you know, thirty percent of your actual brain, the 54 00:03:54.830 --> 00:04:00.830 physical organ in your body, is reserved for processing image information and that stems 55 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:04.629 from the fact that we as humans had to be visual creatures and the early 56 00:04:04.669 --> 00:04:10.060 days, right as hunters and gatherers, we needed our vision to see motion 57 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:14.379 in rabbits that we were going to go catch and eat to survive and to 58 00:04:14.539 --> 00:04:17.379 see danger coming in order to survive and run away. You know, doesn't 59 00:04:17.379 --> 00:04:23.100 matter how you believe humans got here our brains physiologically, it is just true. 60 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:27.089 Thirty percent. It's for a visual and comparison Tom Maybe three percent for 61 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:31.610 audio. Like it's ten times more of your brain mass and millions more synaps 62 00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:36.490 as fire for visual things. So that's the baseline research for your brain is 63 00:04:36.569 --> 00:04:41.920 wired for visual things. It's why users like videos on your website. They 64 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.240 like motion. Your eyes just look to it more that it is just truth 65 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.879 and that's one of the fun things about marketing. Is just as it is 66 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.990 true that, you know, one cloud service is tactically got this many more 67 00:04:55.069 --> 00:04:59.829 I ups than the other, it is also just true that certain marketing based 68 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:02.670 on physiology and our brain is going to be more effective. And so it's 69 00:05:02.670 --> 00:05:06.220 been fun to play out some of that research in real examples in our marketing 70 00:05:06.259 --> 00:05:10.779 day today here at ITP. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we had 71 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:15.740 another episode where we had Ethan Butte from bombomb, who's a cohost on this 72 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:20.490 show of the Hashtag CX series, talking about this connection between the part of 73 00:05:20.529 --> 00:05:27.769 our brain that that just responds to instant stimuli and and how putting your face 74 00:05:27.889 --> 00:05:30.810 in front of folks the way they do it at bombomb is by sending, 75 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:33.889 you know, personal one to one video emails. That dug into that in 76 00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:38.480 that aspect. So you reiterating it here. Some of that same research, 77 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.040 I think, is a great reminder for folks. You know, sending videos 78 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:47.319 is one application of that. Another is where you use faces in some of 79 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.069 your other marketing assets on your website. Tell us a little bit about, 80 00:05:51.310 --> 00:05:54.750 you know, some of the ways that you guys have leaned into this and 81 00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:57.709 some of the results you've seen, Paul, in some of the changes you 82 00:05:57.829 --> 00:06:02.829 made to blog posts or other content assets, thinking about why faces matter and 83 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:08.139 why we respond to this visual stimuli, as you describe, just the way 84 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:12.259 that our human brains work. Yeah, so you know one little other practical 85 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.699 story. I know this is an audio podcast, but if I put up 86 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:19.649 a picture of someone who looked sad, your brain would figure out sadness nearly 87 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:25.410 instantly, but if instead we put out a math problem like thirty eight times 88 00:06:25.490 --> 00:06:28.209 seven, you would sit there for a while and, depending how good you 89 00:06:28.250 --> 00:06:30.170 are at math, your brain will literally take longer to figure that out. 90 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:35.240 So it's such another point of emphasis that our brains are just better at visual 91 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:40.399 data, and so we brought that to our website in as simple as you 92 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.399 have a call to action button on your website. Contact us today, fill 93 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.470 out this form for a free assessment. Now is very tempting to be very 94 00:06:47.509 --> 00:06:53.389 analytical and direct in that and just have that text on the page. What 95 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:57.589 we found is if you put someone's face, just an image of our marketing 96 00:06:57.629 --> 00:07:01.540 director, for example, right next to contact us, you can process that 97 00:07:01.699 --> 00:07:06.779 friendly person's face better and faster than the words and we've gotten a two X 98 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:13.019 better return rate on clicking on that exact same button when it has a face 99 00:07:13.180 --> 00:07:15.970 next to it. And we purposely also use the face of someone who is 100 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:19.769 in our team and real, not a stock photo. I love that. 101 00:07:19.930 --> 00:07:24.850 So you guys doubled your conversion rate on that one aspect on your site, 102 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:28.410 on your contact us button. So I think you know that's very tactical, 103 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:30.560 Paul. All of us have that. Hopefully everyone listening to this, you 104 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.360 know, has that easy way for folks to get in touch with them on 105 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:36.240 their home page and other spots in their site. You know, I think 106 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:41.120 about that as well. I think about our site that that button doesn't have 107 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:44.949 a face on it, but you know our drift chat bought on our home 108 00:07:45.029 --> 00:07:47.670 page and throughout our site has has a face on it has my face. 109 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:51.069 So we've leaned into the same thing. You made an interesting point. They're, 110 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:54.990 Paul, about, you know, not using a stock image but using 111 00:07:55.029 --> 00:07:58.899 an image of someone on your team, and that kind of leads us into 112 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:01.420 this other aspect that we need to be thinking about in the way that our 113 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:07.939 brains are wired. In addition to having a lot more dedicated to visual processing 114 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:13.209 and and responding to that visual stimuli differently, we also have this tribe mentality 115 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:16.370 that we need to keep in mind as well. Right. Yeah, so 116 00:08:16.529 --> 00:08:20.329 this is came from research that Microsoft provided US actually at one of their summits 117 00:08:20.449 --> 00:08:26.050 for for some of their top partners, and they've done really some deep research 118 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:31.839 or round what makes some Microsoft CSP partners more successful or grow at a hockey 119 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:37.840 stick rate over others, and this tribal mentality, or the unfun term for 120 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.429 it being vertical market focused company did the the data bears out and I think 121 00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:46.350 the best way to explain this is the story is. You know, if 122 00:08:46.350 --> 00:08:48.029 you've ever gone to a place where there's lots of different types of people, 123 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:52.590 so my family and I took all of our kids to Disney for the first 124 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:56.779 time this year. You're walking around Orlando, which is just a sea of 125 00:08:56.899 --> 00:09:01.700 people. If you've ever been on a trip away from your home, you're 126 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:07.100 in Europe, you're in Disney or Orlando, and you meet someone who's from 127 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.450 Wisconsin, from anywhere vaguely near you, you have this immediate bond and reaction 128 00:09:11.529 --> 00:09:16.210 to be like, Oh, you know the Green Bay packers too, that's 129 00:09:16.289 --> 00:09:20.850 great. You actually that person is a complete stranger. But again we are 130 00:09:20.970 --> 00:09:24.759 wired just physiologically, to find our tribe, to find people that are like 131 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.120 us and be more at comfort with those and things that are comfortable and known. 132 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.679 And so that plays out in your sale cycle. And so as we 133 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.990 translate that into business then, and as Microsoft translated that into their review of 134 00:09:39.190 --> 00:09:43.710 the top two thousand partners, they saw that if you were single vertical, 135 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:48.070 single industry, tribal focused, your clothes rate was eighty percent. One, 136 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:52.460 two, three industries fifty percent. No Industry Focus Twenty percent, and that 137 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:56.259 informed for us as a business. You know, I bought a company that 138 00:09:56.419 --> 00:10:01.460 was single vertical, which is great, but in Wisconsin there are only twenty 139 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:05.259 law firms that had more than fifty people. So I couldn't scale the business 140 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.090 the way I needed to at that but we did not add more than two 141 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:13.570 more verticals. That was a specific decision. The number three is kind of 142 00:10:13.690 --> 00:10:18.289 magic and it keeps our win rights above average. But we need to market 143 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:20.440 that way. So when you go to our website, the path thing for 144 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:26.080 you is I am a CEO in this vertical. I'm an item manager in 145 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.519 this vertical. We are trying to get you to information, visuals and data 146 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:37.070 that is tribal and is designed for your role within the business man. That 147 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:41.909 that research is just so telling. Paul, you know it. You look 148 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:46.509 at it from Microsoft ecosystem, you know, looking at their top two thousand 149 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:48.509 partners, as you mentioned, in the it space. We see it all 150 00:10:48.549 --> 00:10:54.019 the time with marketing agencies where you know they're afraid to give up the total 151 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.100 addressable market by having no vertical market focus. But my thinking has always been, 152 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:01.779 well, even if you cut that by seventy percent, that you can 153 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.129 really own that thirty percent that you're focusing in on and you're niching down on, 154 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:09.450 then you're going to have net better results and you know, you put 155 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:13.769 it a lot better and and by sharing that Microsoft research put some numbers to 156 00:11:15.049 --> 00:11:18.480 it. By having no vertical market focus and going to a single vertical, 157 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.159 your for Xing Your Win Rate Right there and still staying within that one, 158 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.399 two three is more than double. Looking at that. I love your story 159 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.840 about you know, traveling and that tried mentality. It really, you know, 160 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.269 paints a nice picture. It's like you don't even necessarily have to be 161 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:37.870 from the same place. You could just have oh, I know someone who 162 00:11:37.909 --> 00:11:41.070 lived in Wisconsin once. Right, you know that sort of thing. I 163 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:45.710 know when I'm out and about I'm in an unfamiliar place, I see someone 164 00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:48.899 with a Denver broncos hat or t shirt on and fort standing close together, 165 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:52.179 I'm more likely to strike up a conversation like yeah, it's kind of stuck 166 00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:54.539 for the last few years, hasn't it? You know, those sorts of 167 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:58.100 things, because we see that familiarity and it gives us a little bit of 168 00:11:58.259 --> 00:12:03.009 comfort, and so it makes sense how it translates into the business results. 169 00:12:03.529 --> 00:12:09.129 Can you speak to anything else that you guys have done from a tactical perspective, 170 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:13.929 Paul, to lean into these aspects? You know you've talked about putting 171 00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:20.240 images at those key decision making points on your website, staying vertical market focused, 172 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.159 anything else that that you would recommend to folks that they do based on 173 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.519 these realities that we've kind of given some some examples and some research and stats 174 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.230 to today? Yeah, I'll give you a couple of things. First off, 175 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:35.950 you know, your website is still a key point of conversion, and 176 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:43.509 so we've applied all these concepts to the website in the way that you indicate 177 00:12:43.629 --> 00:12:46.139 what vertical you are from, what position in the business you are, what 178 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:50.580 role you have, and you're going to get presented first and foremost with a 179 00:12:50.659 --> 00:12:52.940 video that is then relevant to you, the most visual thing that we can 180 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:56.659 do. And then, when we need to give you text about what your 181 00:12:56.700 --> 00:13:00.850 concerns and pain points are that we're going to solve, because the need to 182 00:13:00.889 --> 00:13:05.929 be pain focused or something that is really emotionally triggering, that picture was really 183 00:13:07.129 --> 00:13:11.649 decided. It is someone who looks midwestern, that looks like they could be 184 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:18.080 the CEO of a healthcare facility right like there is definitively a stethoscope in there. 185 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:22.519 There's things that we are being really mindful about, every visual that is 186 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.870 in that page, so that anyone going through that conversion process is going to 187 00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:31.029 feel like we are in their tribe. And so it's really thoughtful and planful, 188 00:13:31.029 --> 00:13:33.909 as you as we go about and doing any of that marketing, and 189 00:13:35.590 --> 00:13:39.149 you know, we just don't spend dollars on marketing avenues. That aren't vertically 190 00:13:39.149 --> 00:13:43.860 aligned. We just won't run a generic mendor campaign for companies that are fifty 191 00:13:43.899 --> 00:13:48.139 to a hundred in size. NOPE, it's fifty, two, hundred and 192 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:50.899 fifty in this vertical with this role. So we really have the persona and 193 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:54.179 nailed down so we know how to speak to them in a way that's going 194 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:58.370 to move the needle because, as we all know, it's very competitive, 195 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:01.250 it's very crowded. How is your message going to be different? You can't 196 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:05.889 just say you're an IT company that has good people. Everyone has good people, 197 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:09.690 or you wouldn't be in business. So what makes you special? Why 198 00:14:09.889 --> 00:14:13.879 are you disruptively different? Because everybody is kind of wired brain wise to just 199 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.399 stay safe, stay the course and ignore all those phone calls that they're getting 200 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.080 from everybody else. Yeah, you make a really good point there, Paul. 201 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.110 I've seen a ton of research that you know, we will make decisions 202 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:30.470 to based on loss of version, to avoid a loss rather than to seek 203 00:14:30.509 --> 00:14:33.389 a gain. And so when you when you play that perspective out in the 204 00:14:33.470 --> 00:14:37.740 scenario as well, how can you make people feel more comfortable and safer with 205 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:41.620 the decision to work with you? You know your point there. Of like, 206 00:14:41.899 --> 00:14:43.620 Oh, we have great people, we have great technology, we are 207 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:48.580 customer focused. It's amazing to me when I've been to sales trainings in the 208 00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.210 past in my career and everyone is stood up and told to give their elevator 209 00:14:52.289 --> 00:14:58.049 pitch. After about four they sound exactly the same, right, and no 210 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:03.049 one realizes that right, because we're all doing our presentations, are marketing and 211 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:07.240 our sales pitches in a vacuum and we don't have our competitors there around us 212 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.840 and we get a sense when in those sort of environments. Next time you're 213 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.279 at a sales conference or something like that, I would challenge you to get, 214 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.919 you know, five or six people and stand up, give us a 215 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.120 one minute, you know, quick value prop what you would say if you 216 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:22.669 had, you know, one minute in front of a prospect, and see 217 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.230 how similar you sound to everyone else. And, you know, back to 218 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:30.070 your earlier point, Paul, digging into what makes you different, what makes 219 00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:33.990 you unique. Some folks, in their sales presentations and in their marketing, 220 00:15:33.190 --> 00:15:37.659 they hesitate to do that because they know there is going to be a little 221 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:41.139 controversy, they are going to repel some people away, but that is part 222 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:46.580 of the the formula here. For success. It's okay to repel those folks 223 00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:50.330 a way that aren't going to be a good fit anyway, or just by 224 00:15:50.370 --> 00:15:56.409 eliminating those it allows you to stay more focused and serve that that smaller percentage 225 00:15:56.450 --> 00:16:00.850 better and therefore again net out better results, as you pointed to, you 226 00:16:00.929 --> 00:16:04.879 know, in that Microsoft survey looking at vertical market focused, or try focused 227 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:08.080 MSPs. I'm going to go with that. Now, every time I hear 228 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.879 vertical market, I'm replacing it with tribe and my brain now, Paul, 229 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.080 and it could be super simple. Right. This isn't one of the first 230 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:21.070 things that we did just to cheat on this before you know, we're faking 231 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:23.110 it till we made it. Or, like all MSP's, right now we're 232 00:16:23.110 --> 00:16:26.629 selling off his three hundred and sixty five because microsops winning that battle. That 233 00:16:26.789 --> 00:16:30.149 is what we did. We called one of our products office three hundred and 234 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:34.899 sixty five for manufacturers. Do you know what that product is? It's office 235 00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:38.740 three hundred and sixty five. It is the exact same product. Right, 236 00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:45.220 that's not a real distinction, but just branding it for the vertical when you 237 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.330 are in a competitive landscape or everyone selling the same office three hundred and sixty 238 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.169 five skew. You are automatically a step ahead of other people and so you 239 00:16:53.330 --> 00:16:56.370 can which means you're going to win more. It also means you can charge 240 00:16:56.490 --> 00:17:00.370 more. So you're going to have better margins when you are single vertical, 241 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.160 because when you are head to head, you can be more expensive and you'll 242 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.880 still win that deal because the person making a decision will go way. Have 243 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.680 Company and company be company bees a little bit more expensive, but they know 244 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.069 our vertical. I've been in those sales conversations. I have been in them. 245 00:17:15.430 --> 00:17:18.190 Yeah, and their boss is going to be like, Ohkay, that 246 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.910 makes sense, I get why you paid more. They know our industry. 247 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:25.670 Yep, they're really good at our industry. They're wellknown in our industry. 248 00:17:26.069 --> 00:17:29.589 Those are phrases you hear a lot as you're winning, you're charging more, 249 00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:33.619 margins are better, all the things that you want to see. And it 250 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:40.019 can be as simple as Azure for manufactures. that it can be just starting 251 00:17:40.099 --> 00:17:44.970 with marketing terms and then starting to develop that integrated IP and some of that 252 00:17:45.089 --> 00:17:49.210 secret sauce that that really does make that very vertically aligned and special and unique. 253 00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:53.049 But you can start with just a brand. Yep, YEP, start 254 00:17:53.130 --> 00:17:56.849 with the branding. Then start to develop out, you know those things that 255 00:17:57.250 --> 00:18:02.519 you do know, because oftentimes, as you start to vertically focus, or 256 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:04.799 try focus, and I'm getting into the habit already, Paul, you start 257 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:10.000 to learn things and you've got to avoid that curse of knowledge like, Oh, 258 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.509 we just we just know these things, but that some of those you 259 00:18:12.589 --> 00:18:18.349 know specific industry lingo that you know, the things that you're picking up on 260 00:18:18.549 --> 00:18:21.630 by going to the same trade shows and seeing the same people and those sorts 261 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:26.349 of things. That's valuable and it is a distinction for for your company and 262 00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:30.140 for your brand. So I love what you're saying there. I love when 263 00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:33.299 we can share stats and stories here on the podcast, and you did that 264 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:36.980 really, really well today, palm. I've enjoyed this conversation. If anybody 265 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:38.740 listening to this feels the same way and they'd like to reach out to you, 266 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:42.609 stay connected or learn more about what you and the team at ITP or 267 00:18:42.650 --> 00:18:45.970 up to these days, what's the best way for them to reach out? 268 00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:48.329 Paul? Yeah, so come to that website that we fought a lot about. 269 00:18:48.930 --> 00:18:53.849 So it pros with an s USACOM. You'll find all of our social 270 00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:57.200 handles there. Were very active as social media. We've got a great blog, 271 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.759 all of those ways that you can subscribe and keep in touch with us. 272 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.119 We're sharing a lot of our best practices every day, so come check 273 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.599 us out and follow us. I love it. Make It nice and easy, 274 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:08.759 Paul, thanks so much for being, I guess, on the show 275 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.750 today. This was a lot of fun. Thanks, Logan. We totally 276 00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:18.670 get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can 277 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:22.390 be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BTB growth 278 00:19:22.549 --> 00:19:26.180 big three, a note fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from 279 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:32.940 an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. 280 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:36.700 That sweet fish Mediacom Big Three