Dec. 29, 2019

1200: How to Spot Bot Traffic (& Its Impact on Marketing) w/ Dan Lowden

In this episode we talk to , CMO at . Are you able to easily track & analyze the reach of your organic LinkedIn content? If not, you may want to check out a tool we've been using here at Sweet Fish:  Use the promo code B2BGROWTH for a 25%...

In this episode we talk to Dan Lowden, CMO at White Ops.


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:10.789 Are you struggling to come up with original content weekend and week out? Start 2 00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:15.470 a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care 3 00:00:15.509 --> 00:00:21.109 about most and never run out of content ideas again. Learn more at sweetphish 4 00:00:21.190 --> 00:00:30.219 MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB 5 00:00:30.339 --> 00:00:34.380 leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vanner, truck 6 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:38.289 and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 7 00:00:38.929 --> 00:00:42.929 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 8 00:00:43.490 --> 00:00:47.329 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're 9 00:00:47.369 --> 00:00:52.840 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies 10 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:56.039 in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet 11 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.679 fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of 12 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:03.679 the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 13 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.430 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share 14 00:01:07.469 --> 00:01:10.829 the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 15 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:21.140 Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to 16 00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:23.659 be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. I'm joined today 17 00:01:23.659 --> 00:01:27.099 by Dan Louden. He is the CMO over at white ops. Dand how's 18 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:30.980 it going today, sir? Great Logan, thanks for having me on the 19 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:34.930 show. Absolutely working. Be Talking about how to eliminate bad traffic on your 20 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:40.329 website and also really what are the consequences of not doing that as a marketer 21 00:01:40.530 --> 00:01:44.689 today and some of the surprising stats that you guys have found with some companies 22 00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:49.159 as far as the amount of bad traffic that was actually happening on their site. 23 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.400 But will we jump into today's topic? Dan, give us a little 24 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.519 bit of background on yourself and what you and the team at white ops are 25 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:57.920 up to these days for a little bit of context. You had so I'm 26 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.310 in the CMO at white ops. I've been in high tech and be to 27 00:02:02.390 --> 00:02:07.150 be marketing for my entire career over twenty years, all the way back to 28 00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:12.509 IBM and early days of mobility to cyber security over the past seven years. 29 00:02:13.349 --> 00:02:19.060 I joined white ops about seven months ago because of their mission. Their mission 30 00:02:19.460 --> 00:02:25.699 is to protect the integrity of the Internet by impacting the ability of cyber criminals 31 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:32.370 from a financial perspective, and when I heard about that mission and who they 32 00:02:32.370 --> 00:02:38.930 were working with in the scale of being able to monitor the interactions of one 33 00:02:38.050 --> 00:02:44.960 trillion interactions per week for some of the largest Internet service providers and some of 34 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.360 the top brands, is, some of the top enterprises, I got really 35 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:53.360 excited to join the company because it's an incredible mission and, you know, 36 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:59.469 really really excited to go help companies solve this very difficult problem of bought traffic, 37 00:02:59.909 --> 00:03:05.509 sophisticated bought traffic impacting their you know, marketing elements and marketing campaigns. 38 00:03:05.870 --> 00:03:08.349 Yeah, absolutely, as you and I were talking about offline, that this 39 00:03:08.430 --> 00:03:14.460 sophistication of bots is as really, you know, increased a lot in recent 40 00:03:14.500 --> 00:03:16.780 years and it can have a financial impact. You know, I love hearing 41 00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:21.939 the word Internet in integrity in the same sentence. You know, in marketing 42 00:03:21.979 --> 00:03:24.340 we talked a lot about social media and those two don't don't line up real 43 00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:28.210 well. But anyway, I digress a little bit. Let's kick it off, 44 00:03:28.289 --> 00:03:32.889 Dan and talking a little bit about why you should start analyzing your traffic 45 00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:38.330 to your site and some of the consequences and the the important aspects of seeing. 46 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:42.159 Okay, do I have, quote unquote, bad traffic? Do I 47 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:45.080 have a lot of bought traffic on my site? And then we're going to 48 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.199 speak to a little bit what to do about that. But I think we've 49 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:50.800 got to kick it off with a little bit of, you know, overview 50 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.439 and high level. Why is this important? Why should be to be marketers 51 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:58.430 really care? Yeah, because it you know it right now. It's happening 52 00:03:58.550 --> 00:04:03.710 and you may not know it right sophisticated bots now look and act like humans. 53 00:04:04.110 --> 00:04:10.819 They sit on consumer machines, they click on ads, they visit websites, 54 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:15.340 they fill out forms, they take over accounts, they commit payment fraud, 55 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:19.740 they do all these things while they look like a human and they live 56 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:24.569 on human devices. And you know, at white ops were all about stopping 57 00:04:24.730 --> 00:04:29.129 them. These are sophisticated bots that that may be coming to your site, 58 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:30.769 that you may see a lot of traffic all of a sudden, coming to 59 00:04:30.850 --> 00:04:35.209 your site after a campaign that you put out there, but the conversion rates 60 00:04:35.290 --> 00:04:40.360 are not what you expect them to be and you're spending a lot of marketing 61 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.759 dollars out there to drive traffic to your site. You want to make sure 62 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:48.399 that that's human engagement, not bought traffic or sophisticated bought traffic that you're sending 63 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:53.709 your marketing and limited marketing dollars to. So it's a very, very big 64 00:04:54.110 --> 00:04:59.829 problem. I'll give you one example of a very large botton net that white 65 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:03.709 ops was a part of was a leader of of taking down. There was 66 00:05:03.750 --> 00:05:10.220 a group that we code named Eve V, is what it stands for. 67 00:05:10.459 --> 00:05:15.459 It's a botnet that had control of over one point seven million consumer machines. 68 00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:24.290 They were sending as many as twelve billion request per day that were fraudulent and 69 00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:29.850 it was impacting brands all over the globe. So White opps recognize that this 70 00:05:30.009 --> 00:05:32.689 was happening. We brought in the FBI, we brought in Google, facebook 71 00:05:33.009 --> 00:05:38.879 and many other players in the industry and we were able to actually determine who 72 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:43.399 they were, where they were. And this group was based out of the 73 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:47.560 Ukraine and Russia and they thought they were untouchable and then they just several of 74 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:53.310 them, decided to go on a trip and landed in an airport where actually 75 00:05:53.350 --> 00:05:57.829 the FBI and local authorities were waiting for them. And now those folks are 76 00:05:58.029 --> 00:06:03.230 in jail in Brooklyn and just got forty year term sentences. So, as 77 00:06:03.269 --> 00:06:08.420 I went back to our mission, we're all about disrupting the economics of cyber 78 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:12.459 crime, making it hard for these guys to do it because it is impacting 79 00:06:12.819 --> 00:06:16.379 be tobe and businesses across the globe. And that just shows you the scale 80 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:23.610 of one large Bot net organization. There are thousands of them and it's really 81 00:06:23.810 --> 00:06:29.930 impacting business and it's really impacting bedb marketers because it's taking their budgets and, 82 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.639 you know, making it hard for them to drive traffic to their site and 83 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:38.920 engagement with with real humans. Yeah, I mean you talk about limited marketing 84 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:43.519 budget. As we talked to marketers every day here on this show and offline 85 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:47.189 in conversations I'm having, doing more with a limited budget is definitely top of 86 00:06:47.269 --> 00:06:50.750 mine for pretty much every be to be marketer I have, and the thing 87 00:06:50.829 --> 00:06:55.750 that I pull from that story is one great job by you guys in catching 88 00:06:55.829 --> 00:06:59.110 the crooks and and I love to hear that victory. But twelve billion, 89 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:03.939 you said billion with a bee on those amount of interactions and the economic impact 90 00:07:03.980 --> 00:07:08.100 that that's having on the marketing spend. As we were chatting a little bit 91 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:13.259 offline to Dan, you mentioned another surprising stat one customer was kind of almost 92 00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:16.889 fell out of their chair looking at the amount of their web traffic that was 93 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:20.170 actually bad traffic. Right, that's right. You know, we had a 94 00:07:20.490 --> 00:07:27.610 very large brand that did a big marketing campaign. They had tremendous results from 95 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:33.079 a standpoint of people coming to their website and filling out forms, but when 96 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:39.000 those forms were given to their sales team, the sales team called on those 97 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:44.790 leads and Nope, nobody was there. And when they tried to retarget those 98 00:07:45.269 --> 00:07:49.550 same type of interactions, there was not the conversion rates that they anticipated. 99 00:07:49.709 --> 00:07:53.990 So a lot of traffic to their site but the conversion rates were low. 100 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:58.740 In this case, they originally thought they had a covered with current tools. 101 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:03.259 They thought maybe the fraud traffic or bought traffic was the three to five percent 102 00:08:03.379 --> 00:08:09.060 range. When we put the white opps tag on their website in their campaign 103 00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:13.930 pages, we actually were able to determine that thirty eight percent of the traffic 104 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:18.970 going to their site was sophisticated bought activity and not human. So they were 105 00:08:18.329 --> 00:08:24.889 spending dollars on form fills, paying that through the ecosystem that would then go 106 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:28.639 in the hands of the bad guys. So thirty eight percent of their marketing 107 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.879 budget was wasted on marketing to bots. And that's the big problem and that's 108 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:39.399 the big educational part that white OPS is trying to work with many brands across 109 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.750 the globe to make them aware of this potential problem. Yeah, absolutely. 110 00:08:43.789 --> 00:08:46.029 I mean, you know, it sounds like that's probably about x what what 111 00:08:46.230 --> 00:08:50.269 they would have assumed. I think most people kind of think, oh, 112 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:54.509 three to five percent range is probably, you know, bad trafficker or bought 113 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.299 traffic, and close to forty percent in that case. One of the things 114 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:01.940 you touched on I think is worth kind of stopping on for a second. 115 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.460 You mentioned kind of one of these telltale signs, at least in this example, 116 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:11.649 was abnormally high volume with low conversion. Is that something that marketer should 117 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:15.769 be kind of keeping their eyes out for? An any other red flags that 118 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.370 you think marketers should have kind of in the forefront? Is they think about 119 00:09:20.409 --> 00:09:24.440 this idea of bad traffic and trying to prevent it? Yeah, I mean 120 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.720 I think, you know, certainly heavy traffick to their site that can't be 121 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.279 explained or then going to your conversion rates and saying why are they so low? 122 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.480 Those are red flags right. So you we do all these tactics and 123 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:45.110 spend dollars on lead generation, display advertising, organic traffic, native advertising, 124 00:09:45.269 --> 00:09:50.990 social media, Seo, sem keyword search, and you're getting all these results 125 00:09:50.230 --> 00:09:54.539 and driving traffic to your site. So it's also important to have visibility into 126 00:09:56.179 --> 00:10:01.419 which one of those areas is driving the most human engagement or prospect engagement, 127 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:05.259 and then you're able to also tell which one of those or all those different 128 00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:11.850 aspects of tactics from a marketing perspective is driving bought traffic. So with the 129 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:16.409 ability to put the white opps tag on their campaign pages or their website, 130 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:22.240 these brands are able to determine where that good traffic is coming from and then 131 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.159 they could should go spend more dollars there, because they're going to see higher 132 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.200 conversion rates. If, with our tag on their site, they're able to 133 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.600 see where the BOT traffic is coming from, then they're going to say I'm 134 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.549 going to stop investing here and move those dollars where we know we're going to 135 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:41.029 have great engagement, and then that's where the higher conversion rates come from, 136 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:48.269 that's where the better retargeting happens, and that's also making sure your sales team 137 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:50.980 is getting the best leads. So sales is going to be happier because the 138 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:56.100 leads are going to be that much more, you know, positive and verified. 139 00:10:56.659 --> 00:11:00.700 And then at the same time you want to make sure that that Bot 140 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:05.970 traffic in the information that those bots are filling forms in and information and don't 141 00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:09.409 go into your crm systems. You want to keep your database clean. You 142 00:11:09.610 --> 00:11:13.049 want to keep the BOT traffic out of that, otherwise it really clouds that 143 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:18.480 picture as well. Absolutely. I mean the ripple effect of that bad data 144 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.440 can really move out quickly and, as you mentioned, you know some of 145 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:28.200 the the benefits of removing that bad bought traffic from from your traffic. That 146 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.919 may look like, Oh, we got a windfall, you know, we 147 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:35.389 wrote some really good copy in that campaign, but realizing that it was bad 148 00:11:35.509 --> 00:11:41.230 traffic and taking the time to take steps to eliminate that bad traffic can lead 149 00:11:41.269 --> 00:11:45.269 to better, better leads for the sales team, better data going into your 150 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:50.740 marketing automation and crm platforms that are retargeting, higher conversion and I think one 151 00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:56.340 of the most important things saving you marketing dollars by not spending money on on 152 00:11:56.700 --> 00:12:00.940 those bad add clicks that are that are not worth anything anyway, is that 153 00:12:01.139 --> 00:12:03.250 about? Someone up pretty well, Dan. Yeah, I mean incredibly well. 154 00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:07.129 And you know, the key thing marketers are being asked to be, 155 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:13.730 you know, more dry driver of business right and business results, and it 156 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.759 we're getting its more pressure being put on companies to be successful in drive engagement 157 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.039 into, you know, drive business. So this is an incredible important piece 158 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:31.470 of what brands should look at because if they go fix this problem and, 159 00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:35.549 you know, stop the thirty some percent of the the BOT travel it coming 160 00:12:35.590 --> 00:12:41.190 through their website and wasting advertising dollars, the marketer is actually going to be 161 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:45.899 tremendously more successful because, you know, they're going to be able to, 162 00:12:46.340 --> 00:12:48.940 you know, have a more efficient spend of their marketing budgets. They're going 163 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.980 to eliminate or they'll eliminate the cookie dependency because, you know, though, 164 00:12:56.299 --> 00:13:00.370 they'll now know that, you know, it's human traffic in and versus BOT 165 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:05.330 traffic. They'll optimize their conversion rates, they'll maintain their data hygiene, which 166 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.610 is really, really important, but really, in the end it's going to 167 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:15.840 increase business results and that's any marketers dream, and you know, that's our 168 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.879 goal. To help sales be successful, or the sales part of the company 169 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:24.120 be successful and drive revenue. And you know, that's the results that we're 170 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.269 seeing here when we put the white opps tag on site, is that we've 171 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:33.070 seen some instances where the conversion rates go up as high as six hundred percent 172 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:37.990 once they fix the sophisticated bought traffic issue. Yeah, it seems like that 173 00:13:39.549 --> 00:13:41.940 is what that conversion rate is something that, you know, everyone should have 174 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.860 their their eyes on right now for any sort of disparity or sudden drop or, 175 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:52.100 you know, consistent low performance that otherwise kind of unexplainable that can kind 176 00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:56.250 of, as you mentioned earlier, raise that red flag and let you know, 177 00:13:56.409 --> 00:13:58.330 hey, maybe there's a problem that that you need to investigate here. 178 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:05.490 Imagine it a spreadsheet filled with rows and rows of your sales enablement assets. 179 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:11.600 You've devoted two years organizing this masterpiece, only for it to stop making sense. 180 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.320 This was Chad forbuccoes reality. As the head of sales enablement at glint, 181 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.720 a linkedin company, he's responsible for instilling confidence in his sales reps and 182 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.909 arming them with the information they need to do their jobs. However, when 183 00:14:24.950 --> 00:14:28.429 his glorious spreadsheet became too complex, he realized he needed a new system. 184 00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:33.590 That's when Chad turned to guru. With Guru, the knowledge you need to 185 00:14:33.629 --> 00:14:37.940 do your job finds you. Between Guru's Web interface, slack integration, mobile 186 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:43.460 APP and browser extension. Teams can easily search for verified knowledge without leaving their 187 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.620 workflow. No more siload or staled information. Guru acts as your single source 188 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:52.529 of truth. For Chad, this meant glent sales reps were left feeling more 189 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:58.409 confident doing their jobs. See why leading companies like glint, shopify, spotify, 190 00:14:58.450 --> 00:15:03.970 slack and more are using guru for their knowledge management needs. Visit BB 191 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:11.679 growth dot get gurucom to start your thirty day free trial and discover how knowledge 192 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:18.600 management can empower your revenue teams. Dan, anything else you want to add 193 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.350 as we wrap up here? I'm thinking, you know a lot of marketers 194 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:26.110 listening to this. There may be something worth adding about, you know, 195 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:31.470 alignment with the technical function, with with their it group within their own company. 196 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:35.590 Any thoughts there on kind of marketing and and the technical side of the 197 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:39.500 house putting their heads together in, you know, solving this problem or tackling 198 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:41.899 something once they realize, Oh hey, there is a red flag over here, 199 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:45.820 we need to do something about it. Yeah, I think the key 200 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:50.330 thing is is for marketers to recognize that this is an opportunity for them to 201 00:15:52.370 --> 00:15:56.370 have a very big impact on the business. This isn't an IT problem, 202 00:15:56.570 --> 00:16:02.889 this isn't necessarily as cybersecurity problem. It is, but the marketers have the 203 00:16:03.009 --> 00:16:07.000 most at stake here and if they go and attack this problem and bring in 204 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.919 their it folks or bring in their cybersecurity team to say let's look at this 205 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:17.360 together as a group, and more and more we're going into meetings where the 206 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:21.549 CMO is there, the SSO is there, the head of it is there 207 00:16:21.629 --> 00:16:26.590 because they realize this is a shared problem for the company. It's a big 208 00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:30.750 problem for the company. So it increases the collaboration for the CMO to and 209 00:16:30.909 --> 00:16:34.620 head of marketing to engage with other parts of the business. That helps solve 210 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:41.659 this business problem and we're finding marketing leaders who who take the forward step on 211 00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:47.929 this are really seeing high paybacks and are becoming heroes of the company because they're 212 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:52.330 seeing better business results. And it is a marketers you know, we have 213 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:57.169 to lean in. It's our responsibility and for me, being a marketer, 214 00:16:57.330 --> 00:17:02.960 I take this personally because I my marketing dollars. You know I have to 215 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.119 spend very wisely and I want to see the most returned with it. I 216 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:11.640 want to see the best interaction that I can have with customers and I don't 217 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.150 want to waste any of those dollars targeting sophisticated thoughts. HMM. Yeah, 218 00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:18.309 I mean, for as much as we talk about sales and marketing alignment, 219 00:17:18.349 --> 00:17:22.470 it's nice to hear you know, there is a strong case for marketing and 220 00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:26.990 IT and security alignment. You know all about, as you mentioned, this 221 00:17:27.109 --> 00:17:33.980 idea of marketing leaning into driving business results that that impact revenue, and I 222 00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:37.019 think that's a common theme it when you look at, you know, sales 223 00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:41.940 and marketing alignment and what you're bringing up here in aligning with your technical leaders 224 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:45.690 internally as well. Dan, if anybody listening to this would like to asking 225 00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:48.769 follow up questions of you stay connected or learn a little bit more about what 226 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.049 you and the team at white ops are up to these days, what's the 227 00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:53.730 best way for them to reach out? You Bet so. I mean our 228 00:17:53.769 --> 00:18:00.279 website is www dot white opscom and I'll just say I'll give you my personal 229 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:07.039 email on Dan dot loudon. That's Lowden at White opscom. We'd be happy 230 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:12.029 to have further conversations with you and and you know, bring visibility to this 231 00:18:12.309 --> 00:18:17.430 problem, making people aware that this is going on. They may not have 232 00:18:17.549 --> 00:18:22.309 visibility into our into it or know about it, putting that tag on their 233 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:26.470 site to be able to get clear visibility of where the the good traffic is 234 00:18:26.589 --> 00:18:30.299 versus the BOT traffic is. We're happy to help brands overcome this. It's 235 00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:37.019 our mission as a company, as a cyber security company, to help brands 236 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.250 overcome this problem and, as we also said earlier, from a mission perspective, 237 00:18:41.329 --> 00:18:45.089 disrupt the economics of cyber crime. That's how we're going to win and 238 00:18:45.970 --> 00:18:51.009 there is an opportunity for us to win against the bad guys if we work 239 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:53.130 together. I love it. We are always saying here at sweet fish we 240 00:18:53.170 --> 00:18:56.720 can go faster further together than we can go alone. So I love that 241 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.079 you ended on that togetherness point. Dan, thank you so much for joining 242 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:06.799 us on the show today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. We 243 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.109 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 244 00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:14.549 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB 245 00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.549 growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 246 00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:25.180 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big 247 00:19:25.299 --> 00:19:29.180 Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three