1192: How to Align Sales & Marketing Using Buyer Triggers & a Growth-Driven w/ Mark Alba

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.759 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.230 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:10.349 --> 00:00:15.429 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:25.699 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:30.500 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.420 before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.729 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:43.289 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:48.170 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 10 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.759 building the fastest growing betb companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.320 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.640 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 13 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.600 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 14 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.549 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attend 15 00:01:07.629 --> 00:01:11.590 to take over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:19.980 show. Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish 17 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.859 media. I'm joined today by Mark Alba. He's the VP of marketing over 18 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:26.939 at malware bytes. Mark, how's it going today, sir? It's going 19 00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:30.299 great love, than how you doing? I am doing fantastic. The broncos 20 00:01:30.379 --> 00:01:34.890 of one, two in a row. We actually maybe have a quarterback for 21 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:37.930 the future. Will See. Not as good as your niners, but the 22 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:42.209 topic today is not football, although that's on a lot of people's minds right 23 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:45.489 now. We're going to be talking about really defining this term that you and 24 00:01:45.530 --> 00:01:49.480 I were talking about offline, a growth architect and what you call your three 25 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:55.200 steps to go to market as you build a growth organization in the marketing function 26 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:57.840 for your organization. So before we get into the topic today, though, 27 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.989 Mark, let's give folks a little bit of context. Give us a little 28 00:02:00.989 --> 00:02:04.909 bit on your background and what you in the malware bites team are up to 29 00:02:04.989 --> 00:02:07.590 these days. Sure thing. Thanks looking. Yeah, so I'm Mark Albie, 30 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:12.909 MVP of marketing at malware bites and for those of you that note don't 31 00:02:12.949 --> 00:02:16.259 know, Malur bites is an endpoint security, cyber security company. We are 32 00:02:16.379 --> 00:02:24.419 focused on delivering protection and detection technologies that are protecting companies against malware, ransomware 33 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:30.810 and different exploits that target end points and users. I love it, man, 34 00:02:30.969 --> 00:02:34.210 so let's jump right in. I mentioned a term at the top of 35 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.090 the conversation, growth architect. I think we should spend a little bit of 36 00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:40.490 time camping out on that. What it is and what it isn't it? 37 00:02:42.250 --> 00:02:45.039 Growth is one of those terms. I think you asked ten people, you 38 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:47.520 get ten different answers. So speak to this a little bit in how you 39 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:53.240 define this term, growth architect, sure think. Yeah, so growth architect 40 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:55.159 as a term. You can probably think it's a marketing term. What does 41 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.669 it mean? It means everything and it means nothing. The reality for for 42 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:02.469 me and for the marketing teams that I have led, and especially in a 43 00:03:02.830 --> 00:03:09.909 highly volatile industry like cyber security, your customers are they're literally constantly under attack 44 00:03:10.389 --> 00:03:15.699 and we as vendors are obviously constantly under attack as well. The focus on 45 00:03:15.819 --> 00:03:21.379 growth architect is is having the ability to work within that type of industry, 46 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:25.219 to be able to quickly identify and assess the particular opportunity that you're trying to 47 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:30.849 tackle and then to be able to develop a framework that includes both a streamline 48 00:03:30.889 --> 00:03:36.930 set of processes and established metrics that allow you to work within that industry but 49 00:03:37.009 --> 00:03:40.639 at the same time or agile enough to allow for an iterative marketing approach. 50 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.719 It's not the right approach for all industries. So you can think of more 51 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:53.439 mature industries where there's not as much volatility and the customer problems are well established. 52 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:59.830 This is specifically for those industries where you're constantly seeing change and you need 53 00:03:59.909 --> 00:04:03.110 to have marketers that have the finger on the pulse of where the customers are 54 00:04:03.229 --> 00:04:08.110 and what their needs are. So it sounds like one of the key components 55 00:04:08.389 --> 00:04:14.379 of a growth architect where a growth team is really this small feedback loop, 56 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:19.459 this quick testing, iteration, reassessing, and that piece. It's not growth 57 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:24.290 is just another term for marketing in your mind, right, mark that? 58 00:04:24.449 --> 00:04:27.769 That's that's exactly right. Growth is not another word for marketing. I think 59 00:04:27.810 --> 00:04:32.050 growth is the is the product of having this framework in place, but it 60 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:38.170 definitely is not just, you know, marketing without thinking about that target in 61 00:04:38.290 --> 00:04:43.279 mind. So let's talk a little bit about Org structure when you realize, 62 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:46.720 okay, we are in a volatile market or we are, you know, 63 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.639 a high growth team, another area where you know this definition of growth in 64 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:54.750 your marketing structure will make a lot of sense. Tell us a little bit 65 00:04:54.750 --> 00:04:58.389 about how you've built out teams, how you look at the Org structure when 66 00:04:58.430 --> 00:05:02.790 you have this growth mindset within your marketing org. Sure. So, first 67 00:05:02.790 --> 00:05:08.019 thing is any marketing organization, and I always say there's no excuse for not 68 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:12.699 having that this in place, with the type of marketing MARTEC technology that that's 69 00:05:12.699 --> 00:05:15.740 out there to facilitate this. But the first thing is that you need to 70 00:05:15.779 --> 00:05:19.379 have a salad foundation that's built off of analytics and that has the ability to 71 00:05:19.540 --> 00:05:28.769 extract the customer insight that comes from various digital engagements that customers are already actively 72 00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:33.329 participating in. And so with that, with that foundation, with that MARTEX 73 00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:40.319 STAC and the insight and understanding where your buyers are the personas what their emotional 74 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:46.480 needs are, having a defined, simple process that a allows for, across 75 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:53.230 the marketing stream, the handoff of particular roles and responsibilities and the handoffs, 76 00:05:53.269 --> 00:05:58.149 most importantly, of the decisions that allow you to market all the way from 77 00:05:58.949 --> 00:06:01.790 somebody reading an article on the New York Times about your company all the way 78 00:06:01.870 --> 00:06:06.019 down to through the buyer cycle through to renewal. You know I talked about 79 00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:11.500 that MARTEX stact. It is so hugely important that that Martex stact isn't just 80 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:16.500 allowing you to execute on sending emails, but what is happening with those emails? 81 00:06:16.660 --> 00:06:19.329 Who is reading them, how are they reading them, how much time 82 00:06:19.370 --> 00:06:24.730 are they spending? This is an analytics exercise that I'm seeing more and more, 83 00:06:25.089 --> 00:06:30.129 that type of pedigree within within marketing, but it's hugely important in order 84 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.720 to be able to execute on it on a growth architect approach. The final 85 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.040 thing is, and this is hugely important when I build out a marketing team, 86 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:44.000 is having a product in technical marketing organization that isn't just responsible for building 87 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:49.149 data sheets but owns the business and it's willing to work within this framework to 88 00:06:49.269 --> 00:06:55.389 make those adjustments orchestrate across all of the functions of the organization, which goes 89 00:06:55.470 --> 00:07:00.310 all the way from engineering product management to product marketing, to increase the RL 90 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:04.420 of all of the activities that are taking place. Tell me a little bit 91 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:10.379 about how you've maybe changed the mindset of some product marketers because, you know, 92 00:07:10.579 --> 00:07:14.180 as you kind alluded to, their you know, responsible for data sheets, 93 00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:16.449 right, is almost kind of tongue in cheek. Product marketers think about 94 00:07:16.449 --> 00:07:18.930 okay, what are the features? What are the benefits? How do we 95 00:07:19.009 --> 00:07:23.610 communicate that? How do we put some design on that? I'm way over 96 00:07:23.810 --> 00:07:27.730 simplifying what product marketing doesn't. I hope anyone listening to this doesn't, you 97 00:07:27.769 --> 00:07:30.240 know, take offense. It's not what I mean, but just that that 98 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.480 mindset there is is a good bit different than that growth mindset that we talked 99 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:40.839 about from the beginning, and so having product marketing fit into this growth organization 100 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:45.629 might seem a little bit counterintuitive or might seem to some folks to say, 101 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:48.430 Hey, we're going to have to have some change management go on here. 102 00:07:48.589 --> 00:07:51.029 Tell us a little bit about maybe that. And then I want to get 103 00:07:51.029 --> 00:07:57.910 into your three steps in really implementing this within your marketing team. Sure think? 104 00:07:57.990 --> 00:08:00.139 Sure thinks so. You know, I always tell a story. My 105 00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:03.660 background is actually in product management and I tell people that has probably spent more 106 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:07.699 time and product management than I've spent in product marketing. So I fully understand 107 00:08:09.300 --> 00:08:13.730 the mindset of a product manager as a being bring a product to market. 108 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:16.490 And back when I was in product management, and I think back to a 109 00:08:16.610 --> 00:08:20.970 time when I was developing a cloud based on point security solution, I had 110 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:26.730 a very simplistic view of what was required. Promotion of a product was simple. 111 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:31.680 We are going to have that data sheet bill and we run digital advertising 112 00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:35.080 and then everybody's going to want to buy. Positioning for me was easy, 113 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.919 as I've already built the product and of course everybody wants it and surely everybody's 114 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:45.830 going to buy my product because they can see the innovation that I built into 115 00:08:45.870 --> 00:08:48.269 it. And so, as I think about a product marketer, I think 116 00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:52.590 the first thing for them is to be able to work with a product manager 117 00:08:52.950 --> 00:08:58.580 to understand the basics of their product, the use case, why they developed 118 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:03.820 it, how they developed it, the differentiation. It's somebody, a product 119 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:09.139 marketer, who is curious, who is willing to jump into the specific technology, 120 00:09:09.220 --> 00:09:16.169 the differentiation to tease out that innovation and then from there being able to 121 00:09:16.250 --> 00:09:22.730 take that and translate that into the collateral, the assets, the positioning that 122 00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:28.120 specifically targeting what we call the ideal customer profile, that prospect where, nine 123 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.840 times out of ten, when we have a conversation with them about our innovation, 124 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.600 they're going to say, Aha, that makes sense, yeah, that 125 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:41.070 makes sense. Not to be too on the nose there, but awesome. 126 00:09:41.309 --> 00:09:43.830 So, mark, as I alluded to a second ago, we're going to 127 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:48.070 be talking about, you know, three steps really implement this. The first 128 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:52.070 is begin with the end in mind, which I think a lot of people 129 00:09:52.309 --> 00:09:54.139 understand. But, as you and I were talking a little bit offline, 130 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:58.059 they might start there, but then they don't keep the end in mind as 131 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:01.860 they build out, you know, their nurture sequences and and other campaigns and, 132 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.580 as you mentioned, different assets that teas out the right things about their 133 00:10:05.659 --> 00:10:09.370 product and and the benefit. So tell us a little bit about how you 134 00:10:09.570 --> 00:10:13.769 look at beginning with the end in mind when it comes to a growth mindset. 135 00:10:13.889 --> 00:10:18.370 Your marketing organ right, right, and so you know, I firmly 136 00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:24.120 believe that that a growth architect in marketing. They start by building demand by, 137 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:26.559 as you put it, you know, beginning at the end, but 138 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:33.919 understanding the emotional impact of what the customer is experiencing at the time when they 139 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.870 may want to open up a conversation, in this case with malwor bytes. 140 00:10:39.549 --> 00:10:43.389 And so what I mean by that is understanding the triggers. I don't call 141 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:46.389 them pain points, I call them triggers because a pain point is something that 142 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:52.299 may you know exist with a particular prospect, something that they know exists. 143 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:58.139 A trigger is a visual reaction that they have because something has gotten so bad 144 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.340 or something has gotten so good that they need a solution to be able to 145 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:07.049 capture the opportunity. An example of this, specifically in security is a massive 146 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:11.370 attack happens of a request to be compliance, the realizing that they have a 147 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:16.889 skills shortage within the organization. And so what's important, you kind of alluded 148 00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:22.159 to this is a lot of companies think about pain points. I think unfortunately, 149 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:24.799 in a lot of marketing organizations pain points becomes part of a checkbox. 150 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.799 Have you solved for the for the pain points? But what's really important at 151 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.389 when we think about beginning at the end, is you start there with that 152 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:37.070 pain point and you need to be able to map it back to the collateral, 153 00:11:37.269 --> 00:11:41.350 the discussions, the advertising, all the way up to when I have 154 00:11:41.429 --> 00:11:46.909 a discussion with the New York Times. That message at that level needs to 155 00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:52.940 speak to the trigger, the pain points and the conversation that eventually my sellers 156 00:11:52.980 --> 00:12:00.100 are going to have with that particular prospect. Imagine it a spreadsheet filled with 157 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:05.289 rows and rows of your sales enablement assets. You've devoted two years organizing this 158 00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:09.529 masterpiece, only for it to stop making sense. This was Chad tribuccoes reality. 159 00:12:09.850 --> 00:12:13.450 As the head of sales enablement at glint, a linkedin company, he's 160 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:18.000 responsible for instilling confidence in his sales reps and arming them with the information they 161 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.759 need to do their jobs. However, when his glorious spreadsheet became too complex, 162 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.240 he realized he needed a new system. That's when Chad turned to guru. 163 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.549 With Guru, the knowledge you need to do your job finds you. 164 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:37.710 Between Guru's Web interface, slack integration, mobile APP and browser extension, teams 165 00:12:37.789 --> 00:12:43.029 can easily search for verified knowledge without leaving their workflow. No more siload or 166 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:46.419 staled information. Guru acts as your single source of truth. For Chad, 167 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:52.580 this meant glent sales reps were left feeling more confident doing their jobs. See 168 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:58.809 why leading companies like glint, shopify, spotify and more are using guru for 169 00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:05.730 their knowledge management needs. Visit BB growth dot get gurucom to start your thirty 170 00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:13.440 day free trial and discover how knowledge management can empower your revenue teams. You 171 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.840 allude to something there. That's actually step two in the process. there. 172 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.399 Mark that, that handoff, that handshake, you know, whatever analogy you 173 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:26.200 want to use, from marketing to sales. And let's say that you've done 174 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.549 a great job. you pain points have not just been this check box. 175 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:31.909 Okay, we've thought about the customer pain points and we built that into our 176 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:37.029 messaging, but it is, throughout the process, one of the worst things 177 00:13:37.110 --> 00:13:41.779 that can happen as a marketing organization, as you have this phenomenal nurture sequence 178 00:13:41.059 --> 00:13:45.700 you're building, you know, an inbound engine. It gets to sales and 179 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:48.620 the handshake is completely broken. It is not seamless at all. Right, 180 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:54.460 that's right. And you know, at a prior company this this manifest itself 181 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:58.809 in US listening to, you know, recordings of phone calls where they're clearly 182 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:03.330 was an asset in front of the prospect that they had read the conversation with 183 00:14:03.409 --> 00:14:07.129 the sales force was completely out of left field. And the way I put 184 00:14:07.169 --> 00:14:13.840 it is that prospect that that that potential customer should have been offended that they 185 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.639 had that phone call because they weren't talking to that emotional trigger and so for 186 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.200 me, in order for a growth architect marketing organization to work, you need 187 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.629 to be able to seamlessly nurture. So you have those assets in place that 188 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:30.350 are speaking to that trigger at the different level of the conversation, whether it's 189 00:14:30.389 --> 00:14:33.110 awareness all the way down to decision. But you need to have the system 190 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:39.700 in place that facilitates that conversation, whether it's digital nurture, where you're going 191 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:43.500 to obviously get a higher margin, a higher rate of return, all the 192 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:50.980 way to a higher cost but oftentimes more effective salesperson. So, tactically speaking, 193 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:56.409 what we do to be able to facilitate this is within our sales tools, 194 00:14:56.529 --> 00:15:01.129 the call script speaks to that nurture chain all the way from the top 195 00:15:01.409 --> 00:15:05.889 down to the bottom, that the information that's coming in from that digital system 196 00:15:05.929 --> 00:15:09.960 that we put into place in forms the salesperson on what they need to speak 197 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:16.639 to, and then spending time with sales to help them facilitate that nurture chain 198 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.399 from where they pick it up from the digital nurture chain, and example of 199 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.429 that is giving them the tools not only the close the deal but to understand 200 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:31.149 and recognize when a customers are potential customers, trigger points they're not there yet. 201 00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:33.710 They understand that they have a problem, but they need to go back 202 00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:41.419 to thought leadership and you can seemlessly move that customer back to that right solutions 203 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:45.659 page where they can talk about thought leadership, conversely, being able to move 204 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:50.250 them down to the decision phase as quickly as possible. For me it's you 205 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:52.730 know, we deal with a lot of buyers and inside sales buyers that have 206 00:15:54.049 --> 00:15:58.690 very quick conversations. You need as a growth architect and marketing, you need 207 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:02.850 to be able to build that that conversation, both through being able to sit 208 00:16:02.889 --> 00:16:07.720 down with somebody as a field seller and having a longer conversation and then consultative 209 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.720 sale, but that has to boil down to that three minute conversation as well, 210 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.080 specifically for that inside sales rep I've got two questions for you there. 211 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.230 You know, sales and marketing alignment is, as been, a hot topic 212 00:16:18.269 --> 00:16:23.549 all year long and probably longer than that, and oftentimes in recent episodes here 213 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:30.070 on the podcast. Mark Two things. One, have you experience where this 214 00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:33.500 stepping in and owning of those call scripts or influencing of those call scripts, 215 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:37.659 you get some pushback from sales and any thoughts on how to navigate that and 216 00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:44.779 to within that, any any thoughts on influencing training sales folks to be able 217 00:16:44.779 --> 00:16:47.929 to recognize? Okay, where are they in the journey? Do I need 218 00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:49.370 to go back up to thought leadership? Do I need to push for a 219 00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:53.730 decision? Do I need to provide social proof? There are a lot of 220 00:16:53.850 --> 00:16:57.690 nuances there. I know you'd probably not going to offer any silver bullet and 221 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:00.610 if you do I'm going to tell you it's not a silver bullet. But 222 00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:04.240 speaking to that, you know relationship with sales in influencing the call script and 223 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.240 those first sales touch points, as well as, you know, some coaching 224 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.839 on Best Practices, as you mentioned, in identifying where the customer is so 225 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:18.750 that you are using those emotional triggers that you've built a new marketing campaigns effectively 226 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:22.549 in the sales process as well. Right, right, and I actually think 227 00:17:22.589 --> 00:17:26.549 that those two are very inner related in how you solve for them. Just 228 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:30.660 a little bit of background. So I have had the opportunity within Maor Bites, 229 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:34.539 we have a fantastic inside sales and outside sales force I have the opportunity 230 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:38.940 reportant to achieve revenue officer. So we truly had a sales and marketing combined 231 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:44.259 organization, and what I've discovered is we can build. So going back to 232 00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.089 I'm going to take your second question first, because I think it ties back 233 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:52.089 to the triggers. Each trigger has a way of being identified by a customer 234 00:17:52.329 --> 00:17:56.410 in their own unique way, and the trick there is being able to understand 235 00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:00.319 what are those words, what are those feelings that are going to come out 236 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.279 that a seller needs to be able to recognize and to be able to very 237 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:08.920 quickly pivot that person from one direction or another. And so what we've literally 238 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.190 done, and this is very tactical in nature, is when we identify a 239 00:18:12.309 --> 00:18:15.950 trigger, we create a set of ten words and if you hear this particular 240 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:19.150 word, you know that that person is ready to buy. If you hear 241 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.710 this particular word, you need to move that person back up to nurture so 242 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:26.740 that there's always an answer, specifically when you talk about an inside sales rep 243 00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:32.740 when they're on the phone with a prospect, allowing them to move them through 244 00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:37.660 that digital or through that nurture journey and effectively what that does for them is 245 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:41.250 it allows it to them to be a consultative seller. They're not in it 246 00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:45.690 for the close of the deal. They're in it to help that person move 247 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:48.849 across the nurture a journey. Going back to your first question, and I 248 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:53.329 do think that they're tied together, is that initially we did get pushed back 249 00:18:53.410 --> 00:18:57.240 on our on our call scripts a seller, and I'll be the first one 250 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:03.119 to admit I'm probably a pretty bad telephone salesperson. It's a very unique skill 251 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.519 set and, you know, the pushback that we got from them was this 252 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.920 isn't going to resonate. These words are going to resonate. What we did 253 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:12.430 was very simple, and this is very exciting, is that, as we 254 00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:18.789 built out this growth marketing approach, when we get to the sellers, we 255 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:22.869 sat down with them and we trained and enabled them specifically on these types of 256 00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:27.859 call blitzes around specific triggers. We sit down with the with the sellers as 257 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:33.660 they sell. We're on the phone with them listening and and understanding what words 258 00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:37.569 resonate and what words don't resonate. And this goes back to, you know, 259 00:19:37.609 --> 00:19:41.569 actually my third point. You know, it's being able to very quickly 260 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:45.930 on the fly, measure and adjust, work with sales make sure that the 261 00:19:45.049 --> 00:19:51.250 message is being tweaked as they're having those conversations. I love it. I 262 00:19:51.490 --> 00:19:56.359 feel like the game entirely changed for us when we started using chorus dot ai 263 00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.599 to record our sales calls, transcribe them, be able to search for keywords, 264 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.039 look at the volume of keywords, those sorts of things actually just looking 265 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:08.430 at that, that base of knowledge since we started use in chorus towards the 266 00:20:08.470 --> 00:20:11.990 beginning of this year, and look at things that were surprising, you know, 267 00:20:12.150 --> 00:20:17.950 the the amount of times potential customers say a certain word versus what your 268 00:20:18.029 --> 00:20:22.740 perception might be anything else. Tactically their mark on you know, coming up 269 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:25.299 with those keywords, because I think you drop something really, really good. 270 00:20:25.339 --> 00:20:30.500 I suggest folks hit that thirty or sixty two back button here to go over 271 00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:33.660 what you said identifying keywords. So you've got kind of this little word cluster 272 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:38.009 right that's kind of associated with where they might be in their buyer journey. 273 00:20:38.410 --> 00:20:41.170 Coming up with those, can you speak to a little bit? Did that 274 00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:45.529 come from these sitting in on sales calls or anything else that you did to 275 00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.650 come up with those? Because I think that strategies is makes a lot of 276 00:20:48.690 --> 00:20:52.400 sense to kind of boil it down and simplify this process a bit. For 277 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.599 sellers. Yeah, and so this goes back to what we're discussing before, 278 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.039 which is that foundation, that that that foundation on research. And one of 279 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.079 the things that we've done, which has been very effective, as we've identified 280 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.630 those triggers. We're identifying those triggers based off of research, where identifying those 281 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:12.509 triggers based off of what I call the ivory tower approach of what we think 282 00:21:12.549 --> 00:21:15.589 a customer needs. One of the things that we've done, which is very 283 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.380 effective, as part of our campaigns, as we start with a survey. 284 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:22.859 So we take those triggers, we go out to our se so as we 285 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:26.579 go out to our VP's of security and have that conversation with them to validate 286 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:32.740 that that in fact is the trigger, that's the emotional response that is compelling 287 00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:37.930 them to move in one direction or another. Without that foundation, without that 288 00:21:37.009 --> 00:21:42.490 that level of confirmation, we would lack the confidence to be able to go 289 00:21:42.650 --> 00:21:47.279 into those discussions. But the most important part of it, and this goes 290 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.680 back to kind of measuring, is you can do that survey, but there's 291 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.920 going to be a broader audience, there's going to be as the sellers have 292 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:57.319 these conversations, they're going to be pushing the envelope into other areas of the 293 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.910 market where we might not have identified a trigger or an opportunity. So that's 294 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:07.910 the key of having a marketing organization that's able to adjust together with sales. 295 00:22:07.990 --> 00:22:11.069 Yeah, I love it, man. So, you know, we've talked 296 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:15.859 about this definition of a growth architect. Yeah, the fact that growth is 297 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:18.619 not just another word for marketing. It is, you know, this specific 298 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.940 approach of a tight feedback loop, which we kind of rounded out the conversation 299 00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:29.140 there. You know, in your three steps to implementing a growth architect role 300 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.970 or you know, a growth organization within your marketing team, begin with the 301 00:22:33.049 --> 00:22:37.289 end of mine. Look at seamless nurturing, not only throughout your campaigns, 302 00:22:37.329 --> 00:22:41.089 but in that handoff and in those first few steps with sales, and I 303 00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:45.720 love the tactical advice you mentioned there, and creating these word clusters of keywords 304 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.640 based on surveys and research, because you began with the end in mind by 305 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:53.880 surveying customers. Right. It's all kind of tying together and then enabling sellers 306 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.519 to be able to identify those keywords, tie those two points in the buyer 307 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:03.349 journey to make different steps, different kind of if then statements if you're looking 308 00:23:03.390 --> 00:23:07.109 at it as a coder or looking at it as branches in a float chart, 309 00:23:07.190 --> 00:23:10.069 on lucid chart or whatever the case might be. And then, you 310 00:23:10.190 --> 00:23:12.539 know, measure, assess, adjust, which you know ties back to that 311 00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:17.779 definition of a growth architect that we talked about at the top mark. This 312 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:21.259 has been a great conversation. I love the tactical advice you're given to other 313 00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:25.180 marketers and sales teams out there. If anybody listening to this would like to 314 00:23:25.299 --> 00:23:29.130 stay connected go a little bit deeper on this topic and ask the followup questions, 315 00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:30.369 anything like that, what's the best way for them to reach out? 316 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:33.930 Yeah, absolutely. So they can reach out to me at a mark at 317 00:23:34.009 --> 00:23:37.130 Mark Albacom if they want to email me, and of course, on Linkedin 318 00:23:37.250 --> 00:23:41.799 at Mark Alba and I also encourage people to take a look at the Maur 319 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.680 by its website, where you can see a lot of how we're actually doing 320 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.720 this from a digital standpoint and see the ties in from thought leadership all the 321 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.440 way down to the information on our products. I love it. Man, 322 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.789 thank you so much for being a guest on the show. This is a 323 00:23:55.829 --> 00:24:02.190 fun conversation. Absolutely thank you leaving. We totally get it. We publish 324 00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:04.750 a ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep 325 00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:08.829 up with. That's why we've started the BTB growth big three, a no 326 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:14.819 fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. 327 00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:21.099 Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM 328 00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:22.660 Big Three