Transcript
WEBVTT
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There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers
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to pay attention to your brand?
Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients
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to be guests on your show.
Learn more at sweetphish MEDIACOM. You're listening
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to be tob growth, a daily
podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed
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names you've probably heard before, like
Gary Vanner, truck and Simon Senek,
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but you've probably never heard from the
majority of our guests. That's because the
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bulk of our interviews aren't with professional
speakers and authors. Most of our guests
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are in the trenches leading sales and
marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're
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experimenting with tactics. They're building the
fastest growing be tob companies in the world.
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My name is James Carberry. I'm
the founder of sweetfish media, a
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podcast agency for BB brands, and
I'm also one of the CO hosts of
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this show. When we're not interviewing
sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories
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from behind the scenes of our own
business. Will share the ups and downs
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of our journey as we attempt to
take over the world. Just getting well,
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maybe let's get into the show.
Welcome back to be tob growth.
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I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. I've got two guests with me today.
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Guys, we are joined by Matt
while he is the VP of sales
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over at high spot. We've also
got the chief marketing officer, John Pereira,
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over at high spot with us today. Guys, how's it going today?
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Fantastic. Thanks for having us.
It's going great. Thanks for thanks
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for having me back. Absolutely.
Guys. Matt, had you on the
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podcast in the pastway had a great
conversation about scaling high growth sales team.
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Still one of my favorite episodes.
We got a linked to episode eight hundred
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and fifty. You were back on
the podcast back then. We'll put that
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in the show notes. We've also
had Jake Browley from the team and high
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spot. So you guys are becoming
a regular fixture here on BB growth and
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I'm really excited for this because we're
going to be talking about sales and marketing
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alignment, which has been a common
theme for us and I think a lot
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of people, you know, maybe
a little bit tired of this. But
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Hey, we've got a sales leader
and a marketing leader on at the same
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time and you you're both accountable to
hearing each other at the same time.
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You can't just come on and say, well, my Cmo says this and
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that a lot. So I think
this will be a little bit interesting.
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We're going to talk about it specifically
within the context of the subscription economy which,
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in my opinion, sales and marketing
alignment, if you are in a
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subscription based business, Sass or not, really affects the importance of sales and
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marketing alignment. But before I give
too much way, let's have you guys
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do a little bit of background on
yourself and what you in the team at
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high spot or up to these days. John, let's kick it over to
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you first. Man. All right, thanks so much for having me.
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I'm the chief marketing officer for high
spot. been here about a year and
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I've been in sales and marketing roles
for about twenty five to thirty years to
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date. Myself a high spot is
here, listeners probably know, where the
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number one rated sales enablement platform in
the category, the only vendor backed by
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sales force, and our whole focuses
around preparing sellers, engaging buyers and helping
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to drive the analytics that support that
and we are having a great time.
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Companies using US include at and a
Pinterest, John Dear Adobe and more.
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We're based out of the Apple.
I love it. Matt, your turn.
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We had to let marketing go first
here on the growth since we we
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are a marketing focus show. But
we're not going to give sales, you
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know, second tier. We're going
to let you tap your interest to man.
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I'll just a DITTO and then I
don't we can move on. No,
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but welcome. Thanks for having me
about wild dut sales at a high
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spot. I've been here two years
and I've left. I was on your
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show. I talked about I've gone
into several companies and grown them and either
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sold them or gone public. Had
A lot of fun over these last years.
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Since we last talk, it's been
about a half year, I think,
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and we're just growing very rapidly,
hitting international markets, growing our customer
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base and all segments and having a
lot of fun doing it. Yeah,
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absolutely so. As we talked about
teeing up the conversation today on sales and
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marketing linement within the subscription economy.
You know, I think most of most
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folks know what that means. But
I would love for you guys to kind
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of unpack your take on that.
You know, went SASS. Obviously software
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as a service. It's delivered as
a subscription, but they're really all sorts
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of different things where subscription is becoming
the norm in both be Toc and B
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Tob. John, do you want
to speak to this trend a little bit,
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just to kind of kick things off
to start? Yeah, I think
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you can say that this sort of
revolution has been under way for a while
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and across both be tob and B
Toc there's a massive transformation taking place in
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the economy. And so if it's
razor blades or the media that you consume,
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the cars that you lease, the
software that you acquire as a subscription,
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it's fundamentally changing the rules of business. To anecdotally, when I started
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it adobe in two thousand and eleven, we had this thing called creative sweet,
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photoshop, in designer, all of
those great products. It cost three
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zero for one box. The end
of my first year we decided to flip
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the thing on its head and flip
it to subscription for about seventy user and
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massively changed everything about the way that
the company worked, in particular how sales
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and marketing leaders have to work together
and that's what Madden are trying to do
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here at I spot yeah, and
added that the sales and marketing alignment is
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so important on this. I actually
have been selling subscription before Stass, with
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SASS actually, when was ast being
application service provider and the late s and
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our sales marketing apartment's warner line.
We were working in vacuums. We were
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just trying to get people to buy
something for whateverever we could get for it.
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And once we got a line and
once we got smart, the rubber
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hit the road and now every thing's
happen. is obviously evolved over the last
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twenty plus years. I'm dating myself
actually almost more than that, twenty five
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years, and it's it's really been
fun and what John and I've been doing
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it's really staying aligned because we have
to, because sixty percent of decision makers
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value the flexibility to adjust to capacity
and a subscription model. So you got
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to really pay attention what's going on, you got to be smart, you
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got to listen and you got to
watch the market. You also have your
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competitors that, if they know they're
losing, can really start trying to hurt
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the market. So you got to
get really smart on value selling being you
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can't watch the terrorists try and bring
that bring you down, and so you
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got to be really smart about it
and don't get afraid of what your competitors
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are doing, because that's the only
way they can win. Yeah, absolutely.
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So I'd love for you guys to
talk a little bit about some of
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the challenges and the opportunities. You
know, in my mind there's the greater
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opportunity. Right, we run a
pretty much a subscription based business here.
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It's sweet fish. We've productized our
service and offered our podcast production really on
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a retainer basis, which we look
at a lot of the tops ass companies
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and look at their growth models and
their strategies and take a lot from that.
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Even though we don't offer a SASS
product, there are a lot of
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similarities, and so in my mind
I think of some of the opportunities.
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You know, you stack revenue,
but then there are some of the challenges.
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You've got to be able to retain
customers and it's based on their experience.
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So sales, marketing and and cs
all being on the same page.
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Tell us a little bit about some
of the challenges you guys have seen and
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how you guys have been addressing them
at the high spot. Yeah, I
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think you know a couple of different
dimensions of this. One of them is
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that your customer can now hire and
fire you at any point along the customer
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journey. It's not just about selling
them a card and forgetting about it.
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It's keeping that customer over time.
It's we think about the entire customer life
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cycle, from the time that they
hear about the offer to the time they
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decide to renew and upsell. From
a marketing perspective, lots of interesting challenges.
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Pricing and packaging. This used to
be really old and boring and now,
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in the generation of product left growth, you know how you introduced and
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design your product offer in a way
to drive up sell, to drive a
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reality, to drive deeper adoption,
is absolutely critical. And even things about
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you know how we market after the
sale. How do you introduce moments of
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delight into the customers experience after they've
acquired your product? A month later,
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I. Two years later. So
these are some things we're starting to think
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about from a marketing perspective. In
it thinks, equally true from a sales
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perspective and customer success man. Yeah, the alignment. Again, I'll maybe
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being a little repetitive, but John
and I have to be completely align.
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Our NABLEMENT team has to be completely
aligned, because John's going to do the
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job on sort of positioning as to
our customers. But we also have to
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position ourselves internally with the sales team
and they have to understand how to sell
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US subscription based model and how to
sell the value selling. The other thing
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we have to do is we're closely
with finance to make sure that we have
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the right compensation package to drive the
right behavior, because if you don't have
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the right compensation pactice, you're not
going to motivate your people to do the
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right thing. When it comes to
a substructure Mas Model. You also that
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is also not just your a's but
also your ams that we're dealing with,
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renewal expansion. We all have to
be aligned. We all have to understand
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how to value selling and we have
to know how to position ourselves. All
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Right, today's gross story revolves around
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spotlight on ages software, a company
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request a totally free custom proposal.
That's directive consultingcom. All right, let's
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get back to this interview. You
guys bring up a great point. You
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know. John talked about pricing and
I'm seeing you know, folks like Patrick
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Campbell at profit well, just create
so much great content around the importance of
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your pricing strategy and tweaking that and
honing that. I love their pricing page
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breakdown series that they've done, a
video series on Linkedin and in other formats.
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You bring up a really great point
to Matt On. You know,
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there's the the financial aspects externally but
internally as well. Can we camp out
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on that a little bit, on
you know, the compensate model for customer
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success or account managers or whoever it
is internally that is tasked with more with
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that retention up Cell Cross cell,
because I think that can just be kind
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of Um. Yeah, well,
we addressed that a couple years ago,
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but maybe you've gone through, you
know, product market fit changes, you've
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gone through pricing changes and you need
to adjust that. So I think speaking
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to that and some of the things
you guys have done there could be really
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helpful for other teams. Yeah,
we actually just spend a lot of time
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doing that internally because we were thinking
of account management. To start on.
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Expansion is the most important thing,
but actually we realize we made a mistake.
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Why don't we expansions going to happen
if you do all the other things
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right. You need to focus on
the renewal and so you have to compensate
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your customer success Ram team on the
renewal and if they do that really well,
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expansion is going to come. More
products can be sold. If they
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give the customer just crew love,
they're going to be able to get a
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lot of lot of things. And
so we create a compensation plan to drive
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the renewal. Be Smart to not
think about the expansion part but more in
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the renewal part. And then actually
there's the bringing maybe get a little to
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of the weeds, but they actually
bring in other people to help them in
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the sales. So I don't let
I don't want my am's to start thinking
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about dollars and sense. I want
them to be thinking about renewals, which
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makes the subscription even as important,
but they're actually just thinking about the renewal.
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I don't know if that made sense, but we really just we spent
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a lot of time doing this.
We really just we literally just put us
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out a quarter ago, you know, and I think just to add that,
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there's an art in a science around
compensation for Customer Success and Account Management
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Teams and I love that part of
the science that not described in to add
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to a flavor of the art.
Many organizations, including ours, will compensate
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these teams based on customer satisfaction,
that promoter scored a favorability. There's things
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that you can do with product lamb
growth systems, textu track and measure that
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inside the systems that the customer is
actually using and subscribing for you, and
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so we put a lot of emphasis
on. Hey, your job is to
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put on the white gloves and really
deliver an exceptional experience in every possible turn.
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And if you do that level of
sort of touch, then the renewal,
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then the upsells in the cross can
also take place. Yes, so
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you guys are advocating more for the
compensation, more heavily weighted on the net
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promoter score, the customer feedback,
those pieces, as opposed to the renewal
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itself. Yeah, my proposal is
you got to start with the lighting the
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customer before you have in a conversation
about retention, such job zero. Then
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you know you'll, as Matt was
saying, you know, retention, focus
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goals and renewal or absolutely critical.
That then leads to up self. I'll
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try re do that. Yeah,
it's we think that if you will,
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you focus, and I think a
lot of companies focus on if you do
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the renewal, right, you're going
to have to then do customer satisfaction,
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the MPs, all those things have
to happen first for you to be able
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to say, do you want to
become my customer again? And if you
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start talking about it early and really
showing them the white glove willow that we
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with, that we really promote,
you're going to then get all those other
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things. The outcome of that is
wonderful. Expansion, additional products, but
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buy more subscriptions, expanding in the
customer base. But if you you have
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to think about I always want to
have this customer. I always have to
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think about the rehoals. Job pointed
out, at any time they can leave
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you and if you ever think they
can't, you better watch out. Yeah,
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absolutely, I mean I love what
you guys are advocating for here in
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thinking about driving up customer satisfaction as
opposed to how can we just drive renewals
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right? I mean it's kind of
it's one of those things that applies to
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every phase in life. Like,
you know, how can I have a
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better marriage, you know, as
opposed to thinking about what I need,
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do you think about what the other
person needs and then that leads to your
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happiness? Right, we we look
for the lag measure too often and we
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don't back up and look at the
lead measure, the lead indicator that's going
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to determine success. Right. So
tell us a little bit, guys,
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as we move on from am and
CS compensation. I love that part of
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the conversation. I think we've got
a unique opportunity here to kind of get
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into the weeds of how the two
of you, as counterparts and sales and
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marketing leaders under one roof, get
on the same page. You drive alignment
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where? What are some of the
things that you guys look for in your
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regular rhythm of communication where, Hey, maybe we're not on the same page
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here or we need the level set
here. What are some of those forcing
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functions? I mean down to the
nitty gritty of you know, how you
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guys handle your ongoing communication, because
I think you know sales and marketing leaders,
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especially on fast growth teams where things
are changing quickly, they have this
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idea of yeah, sales and Marketing
Lineman is important, but how do I
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do it day today? So I'd
love to hear from you guys tactically on
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that point. John, let's start
with you on this one man. Yeah,
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sure. I think job one is
to aligne across sales marketing customer success
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on a shared vision of the customer
journey from the time that they're the top
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of the funnel to the time they
transact, and on board of the time
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they renew. We all have to
have the same nomenclature, the same vision,
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the same just taxonomy of the different
steps that the customer takes along that
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such job one. I think the
second thing is to Aligne on what are
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the very specific metrics of success that
will track and measure together across all of
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those teams, across every single one
of those buyer stages. And just in
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a Gootale, you know, today
most of that lives in five different dash
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boards looked at by three different teams
and it never comes together. And so
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matt might often advocate he have your
customer stated the Union meeting where once a
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quarter, once a month, all
of those stakeholders come together and look at
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that shared dashboard. Number three,
you have to have a really strong sort
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of backbone or foundation of data operations
and systems, and so sometimes you hear
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this is like a customer data platform, but the three hundred and sixty review
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the customer, the systems that sit
on top of that allow you to automate
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experiences and then, I think you
know, just a little magic that we
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try to inject along the way,
moments of the light, you know,
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at every single step of the buyer
journey. How are those three teams coming
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together in designing these of the moments
where they cast breaking stepacks? She's like,
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wow, these guys are awesome to
work with. So that's one point.
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You. Yeah, and to add
that, John and I, you
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are completely aligned on all of our
goals, and it's not just us saying
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at the game amount quarter, here
our goals, I'll see you in three
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months, good luck. We are
sitting there talking. Probably John and I
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could probably talk daily. We are
in we have different meetings during the week
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where we look at our goals make
sure we're tracking towards it. There's never
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a time where we look at each
other and say, I didn't know you
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were working on that. I'm sorry, I didn't know that my prior jobs.
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That happened because I think if this
day and age were completely not aligned
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because there's so many unbelievable tools out
there, there are. It's too important.
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There's heavy competition. We have to
be aligned. To add that,
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we also have to be aligned to
our customer goals. So our call goals
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have to align with that. So
we have to be very, very aware
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of what those goals are and knowing
that thill's goals are changing all the time.
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So John knows about typically, I
think empire of lives, the CMO
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probably wouldn't know much about. But
qbrs we're having with customers and what's happening
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in them and how are those goals
was happening with us, because those goals
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are driving the revenue leaders goals that
should be driving also our marketing goals.
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So John knows what's happening in our
QBRS that we're having our customers and are
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internally in our KBRS. Were talking
about our customers, which is bringing this
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alignment together and I love what you
said their Matt in, just the consistent
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communication cadence that you have. I
got I got three CS there, man.
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It's like I'm a baptist preacher with
the alliteration distinct communication cadence. I
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I just coined it here, folks. But just the fact that you said
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that there's rarely the case, if
ever, where one of you says to
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the other, I didn't know you
were working on that or you know that.
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That really surprised me. And you
know it's that quantity of time leads
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to the quality. Again, to
draw a relationship analogy. You know,
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if you're not spending time with your
counterpart heading up sales or marketing, then
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that relationship is is not going to
be quality, just like any other relationship
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in your life. And so I
think that takeaway of just setting up that
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regular cadence, whether it's a daily
check in, call every other day,
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whatever you can do in your environment
to set up that consistent cadence with your
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counterpart on the other side of the
fence, if you will. Well,
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as we wrap it up here today, guys, any final parting words that
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you want to give to sales and
marketing leaders on things that they should be
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doing other than that consistent communication as
we wrap up the conversation on alignment today,
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guys, serve part maybe with three
quick thoughts and me will jump on.
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I think it's super important for companies
look at hard at is there a
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system or platform, a technology that
can help me bring these teams together to
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make this experience happen? It's one
thing for people to talk together and if
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he had another to have a system
that can operationalize it to we think sales
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enablement is a really core component.
We didn't spend a lot of time on
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that, but sales name them is
a critical role, the glue in communication
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process and capability across sales, enabling
to make sure we're delivering a great experience.
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And three, just empowering those sales
nailed professionals with like some great community
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resources. Sales enablement dot pro is
one of them. Will give you a
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pointer to that one and there's tons
of other stuff out there that. Yeah,
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and the ongoing communication. Would also
trust your gut because in this in
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this in these growth companies, you're
going to be seeing probably a lot of
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a natural things for your competitor.
You're going to prob data that's going to
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be telling you probably some interesting information
of do we raise prices, do we
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lower prices? Don't make need jerk
reactions. Take the time, trust each
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other, work together, collaborate,
talk to your customers and really, before
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you make some big decisions, specifically
on pricing and the top of we're talking
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about here, really make sure you're
making the right things for your business,
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because I've seen too many times people
make knee jerk reactions and come back to
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the bottom. Yeah, absolutely,
as a part of a fast growth team
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myself, I can echo that centament. That's that's great. Parting words,
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man, I really appreciated it.
Well, guys, if anybody listening to
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this would like to reach out learn
more about what you guys are doing over
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at high spot or just stay connected
or ask any follow up questions of either
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one of you, what's the best
way for them to reach out or stay
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connected with you, guys. John
will stay with the cadence of starting with
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you and then to you. Matt. Yeah, we're both Linkedin, guys.
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So you can reach me at Linkedincom
and I'm John Do and Perrera.
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You've got my name listed there.
You can also just reach out to sales
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at I spotcom. We never mind
those emails. That's right, good one.
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Yeah, like Dan and sales and
high spotcom. You know, have
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somebody call you right back. Marketing
and sales alignment in the flesh right here
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to close out the episode. That
was fantastic, guys. Well, this
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was a great conversation. Always fun
chatting with the the great team over at
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high spot. You guys will have
to tell Jake I said. Hey,
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00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.319
thank you so much for joining me
on the show today. Guys, thanks,
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00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:02.990
thanks for having us. We totally
get it. We publish a ton
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00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:06.309
of content on this podcast, and
it can be a lot to keep up
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00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:10.750
with. That's why we've started the
BOB growth big three, a no fluff
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328
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Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom
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