1180: 3 Steps to Design a Sales Process That Closes 3x More Deals w/ Andrew Vojslavek

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:05.639 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.589 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:10.710 --> 00:00:15.109 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.989 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:27.460 sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for 6 00:00:27.579 --> 00:00:31.820 B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner 7 00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:35.659 truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our 8 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:40.689 guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:44.689 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. 10 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:49.929 They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing be 11 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.600 tob companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder 12 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:57.079 of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for B Tob Brands, and I'm 13 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:00.799 also one of the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales 14 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:03.590 and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. 15 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:07.269 Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take 16 00:01:07.269 --> 00:01:12.269 over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the show. 17 00:01:19.900 --> 00:01:23.939 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweetfish media. I'm 18 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.579 joined today by Andrew Voice Slovik. He is the director of sales over at 19 00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:32.099 zestful. Andrew, how's it going to a man? It's going great, 20 00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:36.209 Logan. Just live in the dream. On a snowy Colorado Friday, I 21 00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:38.569 am right there with you from our chat earlier. It sounds like I got 22 00:01:38.609 --> 00:01:45.090 a little bit more snow, but we're enjoying falling the rockies together, even 23 00:01:45.129 --> 00:01:48.840 though we're separate recording this a few hours away from each other. Anyway, 24 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.480 Andrew, I was introduced to you by a member of your team, Kate, 25 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:53.959 over there at Zestful, and she said, man, you guys just 26 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.959 have to chat sales. So I'm really excited to have you on the show 27 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.109 today. We are going to be talking about how to map your sales processes 28 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:07.389 to your buyers journey, as opposed to trying to shove your buyer through your 29 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:10.830 sales process. Is the way I kind of thought about it as we were 30 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:15.099 chatting a little bit of so before we jump into that, though, I 31 00:02:15.099 --> 00:02:19.860 would love for you to give folks a little bit of your background and what 32 00:02:20.020 --> 00:02:23.060 you and the team at zestful or up to these days. Yeah, yeah, 33 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:27.460 so you know my background. I actually started off my career as a 34 00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:34.569 first grade teacher and I absolutely hated that and ended up working as an admissions 35 00:02:34.610 --> 00:02:38.530 representative for a for profit college which, go figure, turns out to sales 36 00:02:38.569 --> 00:02:43.610 job. I was really horrible, and then I started investing in myself and 37 00:02:43.729 --> 00:02:46.960 finding mentors and and doing research and reading sales books and went from literally the 38 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.319 worst rep and my first three months to the best rap and the next three 39 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:58.080 months by investing myself, getting mentors and reading books. From there I've spent 40 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:01.150 most of my time working in the startup ecosystem here in Denver, Colorado, 41 00:03:01.590 --> 00:03:06.270 either the first sales rep or the second or the first sales leader, and 42 00:03:06.590 --> 00:03:12.229 then recently it's spent the last two years as a sales consultant, sales professional 43 00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:15.460 for the Miller Heima Group, the world's largest sales performance and consulting organization, 44 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:21.300 before hopping right back into the start up ecosystem here at zestful. And what 45 00:03:21.379 --> 00:03:29.050 zessful does is we are an employee engagement and recognition platform. We provide organizations 46 00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:34.009 with the ability to provide their employees with the fund to either engage or recognize 47 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:38.610 them, and give them the tools to decide how and where those funds are 48 00:03:38.729 --> 00:03:43.800 used, and that is coming through a programmable debacard that their employees use. 49 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:47.120 And, as a note, we see eighty percent of Twentyzero plus employees use 50 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.439 our programmable debacad every month because they can actually find things that are rewarding to 51 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:55.990 them, whether that's online or in the physical world, based off the checks 52 00:03:57.030 --> 00:04:00.110 and balances that their organizations put in place. Yeah, awesome. So basically, 53 00:04:00.150 --> 00:04:03.789 you guys are making it easier for employees to take advantage of those perks 54 00:04:04.030 --> 00:04:09.229 and making it easier for employers to roll that out and manage it so that 55 00:04:09.590 --> 00:04:13.180 those perks actually get used and then they see the benefit, right. Thanko. 56 00:04:13.500 --> 00:04:15.259 That's it at the end of the day, right. So if you've 57 00:04:15.379 --> 00:04:17.339 only, you know, created a health and wellness program for your employees, 58 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:21.459 your employees can still find find that Yoga teacher that they love right down the 59 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:26.209 street, the massage therapist that's actually help them with their back problems. So 60 00:04:26.529 --> 00:04:29.490 whether or not. They're in Kansas, they're in Florida, if they're, 61 00:04:29.970 --> 00:04:31.889 you know, an Anchorage Alaska, they can find things that are meaningful to 62 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:36.290 them. It man. So, as you guys have been scaling up there 63 00:04:36.329 --> 00:04:41.519 at Zesfel doing some great work that we just talked about there, tell us 64 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.879 a little bit about why, when you join Zesfel, Andrew, it was 65 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.879 important to you to design a sales process that, you know, as I 66 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.870 think about it, isn't just a sales process, it's something that's been reverse 67 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:56.990 engineered, starting with the fire journey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, 68 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.230 you know, I wish I could take credit for this whole entire philosophy 69 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:04.470 of Lyne to how customers purchase, but this is probably one of my biggest 70 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:09.459 takeaways that I had from the Miller him and group, and really with the 71 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:13.540 day to shows Logan at the end of the day, is that organizations that 72 00:05:13.579 --> 00:05:17.579 aligned to how their customers buy, instead of dictating to their customers, this 73 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:21.329 is how you should buy from us, candidly outperform the others on a three 74 00:05:21.569 --> 00:05:26.850 to one ratio. So they're winning deals at at one rate compared to those 75 00:05:26.850 --> 00:05:30.930 who are forcing customers to buy from them and their preferred fashion and ultimately, 76 00:05:31.009 --> 00:05:34.839 as a consumer, either if it's, you know, trying to go out 77 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:39.519 and find, you know, insurance from my home or if it's out there 78 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:45.279 trying to find be to be applications for my organization, I get really angry 79 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.160 at sales organizations to telling me how to buy and at the end of the 80 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:53.149 day, my whole sales flossy comes back down to how can I make this 81 00:05:53.269 --> 00:05:57.990 an easier process for my buyers and how can I take away as much friction 82 00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:01.470 from them in our sales process as humanly possible? Right? So it's just 83 00:06:01.670 --> 00:06:05.660 trying to be a good human being at the end of the day and realizing 84 00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:10.300 that the way that buying and selling has been done in the past is radically 85 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:15.500 changed and, if anything, we're trying to help our buyers learn more about 86 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:18.769 their problems that they're coming to address them with us, for trying to help 87 00:06:18.810 --> 00:06:24.730 them learn more and also teach them new things about their business or those challenges 88 00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:28.529 throughout our sales process together. So, instead of trying to tell them how 89 00:06:28.529 --> 00:06:31.610 to buy, trying to help them become better educated buyers as a yeah, 90 00:06:31.689 --> 00:06:36.079 absolutely. You know, you made a great point about professional development leading to 91 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:41.319 great results in your own career as a sales professional. What we often forget 92 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.000 about in sales is that no one's teaching our buyers how to buy, you 93 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:48.509 know, and oftentimes it is not. It's not defined for them. Is 94 00:06:48.829 --> 00:06:53.069 No one has given them, you know, instructions, but there are things 95 00:06:53.110 --> 00:06:56.990 that you can pull out to understand what is likely going to happen and you 96 00:06:57.069 --> 00:07:00.230 might, you know, be asking that question of them the first time. 97 00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:02.500 They might not know, but you're going to force them to ask that question 98 00:07:03.100 --> 00:07:06.660 so that you can figure out that answer and then and then sell to it 99 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:14.139 and insert yourself into that process. So it begins with starting the conversation with 100 00:07:14.420 --> 00:07:17.930 those potential customers. I think you did a great job of explaining the why. 101 00:07:18.209 --> 00:07:24.209 I mean a threeto one close ratio from that stat that you dropped earlier. 102 00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:28.009 I think is very tough to ignore. And if we pride ourselves on 103 00:07:28.129 --> 00:07:31.639 anything here on BB growth, it's beginning. It's getting beyond the wine, 104 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.319 getting to the house. So tell us a little bit. As you guys 105 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:40.360 started off on this process at Zesspool. How did you go about conducting those 106 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.240 interviews? Where did you reach out? How many people? Tell us about 107 00:07:44.310 --> 00:07:47.550 some of the nitty gritty logistics. There's you started this process to uncover the 108 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:54.110 information about your buyers typical buying process. Yeah, so you know it. 109 00:07:54.990 --> 00:07:58.269 It actually starts in a few different ways, right. So we when I 110 00:07:58.430 --> 00:08:03.220 first started here, we had this organizational inference that we really had three different 111 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:07.980 types of buyers, right, we had an HR buyer, we had an 112 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:13.889 execute level buyer and then we had a financial buyer. And what we did 113 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:16.689 as a first step to help us even understand if we were directionally correct, 114 00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:20.889 was we took all of our customer data that we had and we appended those 115 00:08:20.930 --> 00:08:26.490 three additional resources that we had access to. So one of the first purchases 116 00:08:26.569 --> 00:08:31.040 I made as the sales leader the organization was for discover. Word for me 117 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.720 if you're not familiar with the discover or listeners, it's one of the best 118 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.919 data resources out there. Their unique in which all their data is validated by 119 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.509 humans that are based here in the United States, a really high quality, 120 00:08:41.549 --> 00:08:46.110 high fidelity data. And so first and foremost we wanted to see within our 121 00:08:46.110 --> 00:08:50.429 data was our inference actually correct. And what we found through the data was 122 00:08:50.509 --> 00:08:52.710 that we really had a few different buyer percentage. As I mentioned, the 123 00:08:52.789 --> 00:08:58.740 h our journalists and executive and a financial purchaser. But what we also found 124 00:08:58.779 --> 00:09:01.580 out was that we were doing data and insights not only in the individual but 125 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:07.179 fermographics as well. And so we had this notion of small, medium, 126 00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:11.529 large buyers and we started categorizing those by our small, medium and large based 127 00:09:11.529 --> 00:09:16.649 off a few other attributes. So with company size as one, and then 128 00:09:16.809 --> 00:09:22.850 to understanding, where you know their actual processes into their purchasing journey. So 129 00:09:24.049 --> 00:09:26.120 depending upon those three job titles, I provide you Logan. Right. So, 130 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:33.080 finance, HRUR executive, we started reaching out to our existing customers within 131 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:39.269 those buckets of small, medium, largeized customers and also those persaunas or those 132 00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:43.549 titles within each of those organizations, finance, HR and executive levels, to 133 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:50.549 conduct interviews with those individuals, and really the goals of those interviews were really 134 00:09:50.590 --> 00:09:54.779 the same across the board. Tell me about how you first notice you had 135 00:09:54.820 --> 00:10:00.100 a problem. How did that go off? Who in your organization actually raise 136 00:10:00.100 --> 00:10:03.980 their hand and said they had a problem? What did it look like after 137 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:05.860 they raise their hand and said they had the problem? Who Do they share 138 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:11.289 that information with? I would say just kind of a blanket statement in sales, 139 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:16.169 a lot of organizations feel like they have really extend sales cycles and what 140 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:20.690 they're really dealing with our buyers, who are still just discovering more information about 141 00:10:20.929 --> 00:10:24.679 do they actually have a problem or not. So the buyer actually hasn't started 142 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.480 their purchasing process. They're still doing their research. Do I even have a 143 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.919 problem to begin with? And so a lot of these organizations are saying they 144 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.559 have, you know, six twelve months sales cycles, but in actuality their 145 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.750 customers are spending you know, four or five months figuring out do I have 146 00:10:39.950 --> 00:10:43.230 a problem or not Logan, and so that was something that we really wanted 147 00:10:43.269 --> 00:10:46.230 to understand with our customers and all three of those buckets, regardless of rule 148 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.700 or regardless of companies size, what did their process look like to go from 149 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:56.139 I think we have a problem to concretely saying we have a business problem and 150 00:10:56.220 --> 00:11:00.419 we understand what those impacts are to our business. So that was really step 151 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:03.529 one, was to understand how it goes from a maybe a problem to a 152 00:11:03.649 --> 00:11:09.970 problem organizationally. So we have documented that out. So, as an example, 153 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:15.210 and are super small customers, we are speaking with the executives in those 154 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:18.679 organizations and super small customer to us as a company of under fifty employees or 155 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:24.559 less, if that's fair for the listeners, and we primarily deal with executive 156 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.639 buyers there, and what they had said is that for them, as an 157 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.909 example, they realize they had a problem when they started seeing him place church 158 00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.549 left and right. You know, at Fifty Person Company, if you have 159 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:39.990 two or three employees leaving on a monthly basis, you're having some real problems 160 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:43.710 kick off. And so what happens when you start seeing two to three people 161 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:48.539 start leaving the organization? And what we understood was that those executives, while 162 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:54.019 they know it's a problem, they then therefore turn that over to their HR 163 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:58.019 team to go ahead and further investigate. We'll start doing research within the employee, 164 00:11:58.019 --> 00:12:03.450 starting conducting employee interviews, starting to do specific exit interviews around some of 165 00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:07.809 those pain points. And ultimately we learned was that we see fifty percent of 166 00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:13.450 our small business fires being executives who are so passionate about the problem they maintained 167 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:16.240 and hold on to it, and the other fifty percentage so busy that they 168 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.960 offload this problem. And this whole exploration of is it that big enough? 169 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.879 Should we address it to an h our generalists. And then from that point 170 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.990 we knew and we research that if it's an executive, what are the actions 171 00:12:31.149 --> 00:12:35.309 they take from that point forward? That's a really easy problem to solve and 172 00:12:35.389 --> 00:12:37.830 the executive buyer can go ahead, they have authority, they can release funds. 173 00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:41.470 But for us and a lot of our larger deals, when we're not 174 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:46.139 selling to the decisionmaker, initially what we really want to know was, okay, 175 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:50.340 your executive had said Hey, Logan, you need to go explore this 176 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:54.940 problem. How do they start elevating this back to the executive? How do 177 00:12:54.019 --> 00:13:01.330 they start articulating the impact of this problem and the return on investment of addressing 178 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.970 this problem? So that's really our largest part of Focus and our buyer journey 179 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:09.529 is really understanding of when we're outside of the executive branch, how do we 180 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:15.600 start looping back in and house information shared and correlated back to the executive tree? 181 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.399 Hey, everybody, logan with sweet fish here. You probably already know 182 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.120 that we think you should start a podcast if you haven't already. But what 183 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950 if you have and you're asking these kinds of questions? How much has our 184 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:33.429 podcast impacted revenue this year? How is our sales team actually leveraging the podcast 185 00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:39.029 content. If you can't answer these questions, you're actually not alone. This 186 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:43.620 is why casted created the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be tob 187 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:50.700 podcasting. Now you can more easily search and share your audio content while getting 188 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:56.409 greater visibility into the impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at Drift Terminus 189 00:13:56.690 --> 00:14:01.129 and here at sweetfish have started using casted to get more value out of our 190 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:05.129 podcasts, and you probably can to. You can check out the product in 191 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:13.320 action and casted dot US growth. That's sea steed dot US growth. All 192 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:18.960 right, let's get back to the show. A lot of sense starting with 193 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.470 those buyer personas and then dividing up your typical ICP into, you know, 194 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:28.909 as you did, three different buggets based on size, segment, which you 195 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:33.309 could do by employees or revenue size, depending on you know, which is 196 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:37.269 really, you know, most telling for you in the way that they might 197 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:39.860 approach things, it sounds like to me, Andrew, you guys ask some 198 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:45.379 some open ended questions. You ask them repeatedly, but they weren't, you 199 00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:48.539 know, choice a, B or c. There were some open ended questions. 200 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:54.090 Did you mix in some closed ended ones to try and aggregate some specific 201 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:58.570 data points in the other questions that you were asking to uncover more of the 202 00:14:58.610 --> 00:15:01.929 buying process. Yeah, yeah, so that's a great question, Logan, 203 00:15:01.009 --> 00:15:05.289 and you're absolutely right and I'm glad you pitch up on that. So in 204 00:15:05.450 --> 00:15:09.600 our really early stage phase conversations, we exclusively went in with open ended questions, 205 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:16.039 right. We weren't necessarily trying to confirm or deny certain assumptions about their 206 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:22.070 purchasing process that time. Right, we least wanted to understand thematically. Are 207 00:15:22.470 --> 00:15:26.870 Small, medium large purchasers or these personage within as organizations? How might they 208 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:31.590 go about this process? So we did really three rounds of interviews. Right. 209 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:35.940 So we started off, and I'm apologies for the editing or the lack 210 00:15:35.019 --> 00:15:39.460 thereof, but it's really a three wave approach. It's start with our data, 211 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:45.220 test them of our assumptions, step to go into these more higher level 212 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:50.490 open ended questions, and then step three is try this out with close ended 213 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:56.649 questions, both with existing customers and with prospects, most importantly. Right. 214 00:15:56.970 --> 00:16:00.610 So it's great that we know how current customers have purchased the can we start 215 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:06.000 taking these inferences and testing these and making these informed hypotheses by ultimately going to 216 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:10.919 ahead and validating these right. So, once we started having a typical journey 217 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.200 for let's take an example of middle size organization, two hundred, two to 218 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:23.750 five hundred employees, right, what we had been experiencing previously and what we 219 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:30.149 had been able to gather through our interviews was this initiative starts in the sea 220 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.580 sweet it gets kicked down to the h our professionals and once it's kick down 221 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:38.860 to the HUR professionals, they have a fairly robust process and which they will 222 00:16:38.899 --> 00:16:42.899 ultimately get that information, gather that information passed back to the sea suite within 223 00:16:44.059 --> 00:16:48.929 sixty days. And so for us we really spend time validating with HR professionals 224 00:16:49.090 --> 00:16:53.129 of Hey, what are the questions that your executive team is going to be 225 00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:57.090 asking you? What information do they are they going to be asking you? 226 00:16:57.289 --> 00:17:02.879 And specific in the HR or perks and benefits space, one of the big 227 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:07.559 questions that we know when somebody is really far along and they're purchasing path, 228 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.640 and this is something that, regardless of industry, regardless of size, is 229 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.960 going to be really helpful for all people and that listen to this podcast, 230 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.750 is what are the questions that show higher level of commit it in our interest 231 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:26.630 into the purchasing journey and for us perk's benefits. One of the biggest questions 232 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:32.259 that we see buyers have, whether it's up front or later stages there, 233 00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:36.700 is where the tax implications of pricks and benefits? What? What is this 234 00:17:36.819 --> 00:17:41.500 actually due to our employees and if somebody is in an early stage sales conversation 235 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:45.529 they're not going to be asking about the tax ramifications of a perch or benefits 236 00:17:45.609 --> 00:17:48.730 program. But if we're able to go through one or two demos before that, 237 00:17:49.410 --> 00:17:55.890 we know that by them asking that they've already evaluated us and move this 238 00:17:56.009 --> 00:18:00.039 beyond that first demo stage to their solution selection criteria. They've seen us as 239 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:06.640 a reputable vendor. We've provide enough information and now that our organization wants to 240 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:11.359 learn more about the Gotchas, they're dotting their eyes, crossing their tees then. 241 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.589 So it's coming down to that fact of we know when we start getting 242 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:19.589 asked about taxes and benefits that this is a higher level or more interested prospect 243 00:18:19.670 --> 00:18:25.230 and we've been pushed further down the sales process and as a result of that 244 00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:32.779 we've also started testing about where in our sales conversations with their customers, is 245 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:37.779 it meaningful to interject information or insights around taxes and benefits? The other thing 246 00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:44.329 that I mentioned earlier on our conversation is we're always trying to educate and that's 247 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:47.410 something that the vast majority of sales people aren't doing. They're just trying to 248 00:18:47.450 --> 00:18:49.690 sell stuff. They're just trying to sell and make money for themselves. They're 249 00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:53.650 not actually trying to help address problems, and so if we take a legit 250 00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:57.519 and interest and try to help them think critically or definitely about a problem, 251 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.160 they take us more seriously and go for their in our sales process. So 252 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.279 now we're trying to figure out how early we can bring up that topic of 253 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.950 taxes without derailing the sales cycle. I don't have an answer for that yet. 254 00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:15.509 We're still in data feedback loops right now, but that's something that you 255 00:19:15.589 --> 00:19:17.990 know, to my competitors, I hope you don't figure out before me, 256 00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:21.670 but I think we're I think we're pretty close. Yeah, well, that 257 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:26.539 helps. Yeah, and I think, as you mentioned, what bb sales 258 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:30.539 people in sales leaders out there listening to this Andrew can take from that is, 259 00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:36.220 you know, I wrote down find your late stage indicator questions. From 260 00:19:36.339 --> 00:19:40.009 that it's not always going to be tax implications like it is in the perks 261 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:44.049 and benefit space that you guys serve, but there are going to be those 262 00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:48.490 late stage indicator questions and you know that ties in nicely with what my last 263 00:19:48.529 --> 00:19:52.210 question for you was going to be, Andrew, is you know, how 264 00:19:52.289 --> 00:19:57.000 did you start to build processes around that buyer journey that you uncovered? It 265 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:02.480 sounds like you know one of these is to figure out those late stage indicator 266 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:07.150 questions and now find ways to to test for those. When do we start 267 00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:11.230 asking that question? And does that mean that a deal moves from this stage 268 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:14.670 to this stage, because now we've gotten that indicator because we took the time 269 00:20:14.710 --> 00:20:19.309 to figure out what is that indicator question and now you're trying to figure out 270 00:20:19.309 --> 00:20:23.579 where do we provide education throughout the sales process? So what are some other 271 00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:29.900 tactics that you would recommend to other sales people and other sales leaders to implement 272 00:20:30.099 --> 00:20:36.609 these feedback loops with the information they gather from this data collection and theory testing 273 00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:41.250 and then implementation into their sales process? Yeah, so for me it was 274 00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:47.849 first and foremost coming up with a fairly vanilla fire journey. Right. What 275 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:52.240 is a buyer journey, regardless of organization size or that, where that individuals 276 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:59.720 role could actually address most of how people buy? Right? I think the 277 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.680 individual has probably done the best work on this. It's actually a resource that 278 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:08.950 your entire listeners can find to sales acceleration formula from Mark Rowe Grosje a rogue 279 00:21:08.950 --> 00:21:12.910 Broge A. He's one of the original chief sales officers of hub spot. 280 00:21:14.190 --> 00:21:18.349 Highly recommend that book and resource to your listeners. But it puts together a 281 00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:23.940 really nice framework of problem awareness to solution research, to identifications to solution research 282 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:27.140 and so on so forth. I think that's a really compelling way. So 283 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:32.779 what is it? Just a vanilla fire journey that you can align to number 284 00:21:32.930 --> 00:21:37.329 two. For me, as far as capturing gathering that data, I would 285 00:21:37.369 --> 00:21:41.289 start with my best customers. My costmar is that I have the best relationships 286 00:21:41.329 --> 00:21:44.170 with. You know, these are the types of customers and I would encourage 287 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:47.480 you to work with them that when you are testing out a new product or 288 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.960 new feature, these are the first customers you go to adopt to. Who 289 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:55.039 are those customers? That are the ones that your organization is trained to for 290 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.759 reference conversation. So these are the customers that are going to give you more 291 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.589 of an open Kimono type of approach, like let's just give you everything and 292 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:06.589 anything, and these are the types of customers that you can have really came 293 00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:10.509 to conversations with. And, at the end of the day too, if 294 00:22:10.589 --> 00:22:14.670 you don't see yourself having those types of customers, you can always incentivize certain 295 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:18.619 customers to do that. Right. So for Zestful we're in a position, 296 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.180 and we're very thankful, that our entire product is and touching and impacting them 297 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:26.500 play experience. So we generally have very happy customers. So we just went 298 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:29.740 out and saw who had the most engagement, reach out to those customers and 299 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:33.450 got great insights. So I would really start off with who are my best 300 00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:37.130 customers? The number two is who are the customers I want to replicate? 301 00:22:37.210 --> 00:22:40.809 Doesn't Nessily mean you have a tremendous relationship with them today, but do you 302 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:45.440 think that there's a market opportunity and one of these things right now and total 303 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:51.319 candor, we are really excited about working with fast casual or fast food restaurants 304 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:53.720 for a zestful. We've had a lot of interest. We haven't had a 305 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:59.750 lot of bites, and so we are even calling those people out in a 306 00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:03.990 sales process of we don't know how to work with you. We think there's 307 00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:07.829 a way to work with you and we're really, really passionate about this use 308 00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.029 case and we've just been very transparent with them up front and that we would 309 00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:15.539 like to learn about this journey with you. What concessions can we make to 310 00:23:15.619 --> 00:23:21.299 your business, to you to help us learn about how to work with organizations 311 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:25.019 such as yourselves? So that's another thing that I would say is, if 312 00:23:25.059 --> 00:23:26.450 you don't have that data, or if their markets that you want to get 313 00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:32.569 into, make strategic investments or bets, and those bets can be offering a 314 00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:37.490 discount of service or offering a mortorspoke service to this customers. So you can 315 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:41.329 learn and breathe and do what they need to do throughout their sales cycle to 316 00:23:41.410 --> 00:23:45.279 figure out how you can bring on more customers. That look exactly like yeah, 317 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.039 absolutely, I love that, and you think about, okay, we're 318 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.960 getting new interest from this new market segment. We don't have an offering that 319 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.589 just and maybe we don't have the messaging that just hits the nail on the 320 00:23:56.710 --> 00:24:02.309 head with these folks. In this specific sector and going to them and saying 321 00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:07.509 look, it's not like we're using with case studies of your specific example of, 322 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:11.339 you know, fast casual restaurants with twenty five locations and you know whatever 323 00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:15.099 they look like. You know because what I've heard from from going in some 324 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:18.460 of their researches, kine, of the worst things you can do in a 325 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:26.529 sales process is throwout case studies where the prospect cannot see themselves in that other 326 00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:30.369 customer shoes. Right you throughout the case study where you get that question of 327 00:24:30.450 --> 00:24:33.690 have you ever worked with anyone like us, and you him and hall. 328 00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.529 Instead, you know, do what Todd Campony says in the transparency. So 329 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:44.480 I lean in to those areas of imperfection and you may just have a champion 330 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.920 in that organization who needs more and you might be able to find out what 331 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.950 they need by just being candid and say no, we haven't but we haven't 332 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:56.710 quite figured this segment of the market out yet, but if you help me, 333 00:24:56.789 --> 00:25:00.029 I think we can come up with something that's really going to help you. 334 00:25:00.589 --> 00:25:03.950 So help me, help you, and that candor can lead to those 335 00:25:03.990 --> 00:25:07.539 deeper conversations and might be able to help you go further in that niche, 336 00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:11.579 then then you could by just kind of throwing a case study at them and 337 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:15.099 moving on and just hoping that they bite off. Right. Yeah, no, 338 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.779 I love that and I firmly believe in candor and sales process right, 339 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:23.809 whether it's disqualifying somebody because you know they won't enjoy your service. Right. 340 00:25:23.849 --> 00:25:27.490 I had a company other day, Thos all in Canada, and I before 341 00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:30.130 we even started a call, how to call attention to the gentleman of saying 342 00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:34.049 we only you know, focus on us d should we still progress in this 343 00:25:34.089 --> 00:25:37.559 conversation, on on or your time? And he absolutely said yes, we're 344 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.960 actually opening more US offices. So it's please do that. Right. But 345 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.559 on the candor front, it works in both directions. If somebody says hey, 346 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.319 you know, at the end of the day, you know Logan, 347 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.710 I have no interest in working with you because you haven't worked with another restaurant, 348 00:25:51.950 --> 00:25:53.470 they're probably not going to be a good resource to help you figure out 349 00:25:53.509 --> 00:25:56.509 that market. But at the same time, if those people are saying hey, 350 00:25:56.630 --> 00:26:00.150 yes, those are the innovators, those are people are in give you 351 00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:04.740 and your organization grace and understand that both parties are apt to commit something to 352 00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:10.579 make this relationship work right. I would say that, overall, if a 353 00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:14.700 buyer is expecting a hundred percent frictionless process, you're not being set up for 354 00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:18.609 success with any organization or any product. Yep. So those buyers who understand 355 00:26:18.690 --> 00:26:22.250 at the end of the day, I'm not going to hide anything, I'm 356 00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:25.049 not going to pull any punches, it's going to treat you like a human 357 00:26:25.089 --> 00:26:27.369 and share what information I have. Those are the types of buyers that you 358 00:26:27.529 --> 00:26:30.650 want to partner in with and the type of buyers that can actually help you 359 00:26:30.730 --> 00:26:34.720 learn how to sell more effectively. Yeah, absolutely, Andrew, I love 360 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.880 it. You know, as we were introduced, I was told we were 361 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.640 going to have a great conversation and we've done that and we've shared some knowledge 362 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:47.789 with listeners and I'm probably going to be picking your brain even more as I 363 00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:52.470 build out our sales processes, and this idea of interviewing some of our, 364 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.950 you know, ideal fit customers has been something I've been thinking on. So, 365 00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:03.059 if folks like me are excited to learn from you even more than this 366 00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:06.779 twenty minute conversation or so we've already had, Andrew, what's the best way 367 00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:10.380 for them to reach out or learn more about what you and the team at 368 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:14.460 Zesfell have going on these days. Man, sure so. Anybody's always welcome 369 00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:18.730 to email me Andread zestfulcom. I'm an open book. I apologize if takes 370 00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:21.529 me more than twenty four hours to get to it. I will respond to 371 00:27:21.609 --> 00:27:25.289 you, so please know that. Second of all, I am on twitter 372 00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:30.400 at a voice Slavic vis in victor o j slavise in victory k. You 373 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.799 can find us at get zest for is zeschoolcom. The two things that I 374 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:40.440 would just share as far as like top resources for me as a sales leader, 375 00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:42.039 actually three. I'm going to be a liar in your your reference from 376 00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:47.470 the Logan if you haven't read the sales acceleration formula from Mark Robers, a 377 00:27:47.710 --> 00:27:51.069 highly recommended I think it's a must read, one of the better written sales 378 00:27:51.150 --> 00:27:55.509 books on modern sales in the last five years. It's top five must read 379 00:27:55.549 --> 00:28:00.099 for me for any sales professional leader. Number to see USO INSIGHTSCOM. See 380 00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:07.940 US o insightescom is one of the largest on runs the largest ongoing sales excellent 381 00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:11.660 study globally and they've been doing these studies on what does a world class sales 382 00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:17.089 organization do compared to all others for last twenty years. I feel that they 383 00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:19.369 have some of the best data and they've been looking at some of the same 384 00:28:19.450 --> 00:28:22.890 issues and challenges for the longest period of time. It can actually take a 385 00:28:23.009 --> 00:28:27.160 historical view to show you true trends in analysis. The last one, I 386 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.559 think Gong actually writes in the best content out there period. I'm glad you 387 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.319 brought that up. Logan, I think they write some the best things and 388 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.240 if you do software demos, I would highly call attention out to their upside 389 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.319 down demo. I thought that was probably one of the better resources. Not 390 00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:45.230 Really Germain to our conversation today, but as far as best sales content ran 391 00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:47.750 out there, I thought they're upside down demo was one of the best written 392 00:28:47.789 --> 00:28:51.029 features I've read in two thousand and nineteen. Yeah, absolutely, Andrew. 393 00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:55.230 Those are all really great resources to share with listeners. Will do our best 394 00:28:55.309 --> 00:28:57.140 to share those links in the show notes. If you want to hit the 395 00:28:57.259 --> 00:29:03.700 thirty two back button and just grab here, that might be another way to 396 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:07.259 get them. Andrew, this has been a great conversation. I've got to 397 00:29:07.339 --> 00:29:11.970 give a quick dount out to Kate Marshall, who's going to be the host 398 00:29:11.049 --> 00:29:17.849 of the perk series on crafting culture that we're partnering with Zesfel on. Should 399 00:29:17.849 --> 00:29:22.130 be dropping pretty close to the same time at this episode drops. So if 400 00:29:22.170 --> 00:29:27.000 you are interested in the employee engagement, the perk space and building a culture 401 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:33.400 that leads to growth within your organization, another area where other than this conversation 402 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.799 where we're jamming on sales and sales process that we've been working with the folks 403 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.390 at Zesfel on, just search crafting culture in Apple podcasts or wherever you do. 404 00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:44.990 You're listening. All right. Well, that does it, Andrew. 405 00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:47.910 Thanks so much for a great conversation today. Man, this was a ton 406 00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:52.589 of fun, log and my pleasure. Thanks so much too well. We 407 00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.940 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 408 00:29:56.019 --> 00:30:00.180 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BB 409 00:30:00.579 --> 00:30:04.460 growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 410 00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:11.130 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big 411 00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:15.170 Three. That sweetish Mediacom Big Three