1166: 3 Ways to Leverage Original Research w/ Shawn McKee

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:05.639 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.589 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:15.109 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.989 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:27.460 sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for 6 00:00:27.579 --> 00:00:31.820 B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner 7 00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:35.659 truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our 8 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:40.689 guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:44.689 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. 10 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:49.929 They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing be 11 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.600 tob companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder 12 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.359 of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also 13 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.880 one of the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and 14 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.590 marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. 15 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:07.430 Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over 16 00:01:07.469 --> 00:01:19.180 the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome 17 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:23.379 back to be to be growth. I am your host for today's episode, 18 00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:26.340 Nikki Ivy, with sweetfish media. Guys. I've got with me today Shawn 19 00:01:26.379 --> 00:01:32.579 Mckee, who is vice friend of marketing for Web PT. Sean, how 20 00:01:32.659 --> 00:01:34.730 you doing today? I'm doing great, Nikki. Thanks for having me on 21 00:01:34.849 --> 00:01:38.450 the show man, of course, I'm excited and excited to talk with you 22 00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:45.730 about what we're going to dig into today, which is leveraging original research to 23 00:01:45.849 --> 00:01:49.000 drive growth. We're going to talk about a three major avenues that we can 24 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.200 apply this in. But before we get to all of that, John, 25 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:55.359 I would love it if you would just give us all a little bit of 26 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:57.879 background on you know yourself, and what you and the folks at what p 27 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.430 t are up to these days. Sure, so. So. I've been 28 00:02:01.469 --> 00:02:07.549 in wept four years and I've been in healthcare it for close to ten years, 29 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:15.349 really helping to grow businesses and selling software to healthcare providers. Prior to 30 00:02:15.430 --> 00:02:19.060 that I did some BTC work and I started in sales, which I think 31 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:22.580 is a BB marketer is critical. You can understand a little bit what it 32 00:02:22.819 --> 00:02:27.180 what it's like to be a salesperson and so have a better relationship there. 33 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:31.889 I used to sell print advertising and I have the cold call all day and 34 00:02:32.409 --> 00:02:36.889 one of the things that taught me is there's got to be a better way 35 00:02:36.889 --> 00:02:39.449 to find leads. And so when I kind of moved into marketing, you 36 00:02:39.530 --> 00:02:46.120 know, learning how to create an inbound engine and drive demand that way. 37 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:50.360 And digital marketing is kind of where I grew up. And so wet PT 38 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:57.719 is a complete software platform for physical therapists to grow their business, to run 39 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:01.389 their practice, to take care of their patients, and so where the market 40 00:03:01.430 --> 00:03:07.909 leader in the space and we've been on the ink five thousand seven years running 41 00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:12.789 and really just seen tremendous growth in this industry. I love it and I 42 00:03:12.939 --> 00:03:16.699 love that you have this the sales break background in that you can you understand 43 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:22.780 how that informs what you're doing as a marketer. I talked to Latiny conit, 44 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:25.460 themo over at six cents the other day and she is a sales background 45 00:03:25.460 --> 00:03:28.810 as well. As she referred to herself as a Fox on the hen house 46 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:31.490 when she came from from sales to marketing and I love that. I love 47 00:03:31.569 --> 00:03:35.250 that idea. I'm doing a little bit of that myself here. So you're 48 00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:38.330 preaching to the choir and that's why I'm excited to get these these insights from 49 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:43.280 you, because they are sort of informed from this holistic kind of experience that 50 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.199 you had with your background, just as an overview. talked to us a 51 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:53.400 little bit about within the concept of leveraging this original research to drive growth, 52 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.629 what it is, why it's important, and then we'll get into some of 53 00:03:55.629 --> 00:04:00.509 the ways that we apply it. Yeah, so for us, so we're 54 00:04:00.590 --> 00:04:04.710 in a we're in a niche vertical right physical therapy healthcare is its own kind 55 00:04:04.710 --> 00:04:09.949 of niche, and then we're even more focused there. And so about three 56 00:04:09.990 --> 00:04:15.060 years ago we kind of had this thought of there was no there was a 57 00:04:15.219 --> 00:04:19.980 there was a gap in the market for thought leadership and for data. There 58 00:04:20.139 --> 00:04:28.089 was you know, we have our industry association, but they don't have as 59 00:04:28.170 --> 00:04:30.810 much reach or as much data some of the other industries might, and so 60 00:04:31.449 --> 00:04:35.209 we saw an opportunity to create an an annual report on the state of the 61 00:04:35.290 --> 00:04:40.360 industry, and so we created that report and we have a pretty good reach, 62 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.920 we've got a good a good list, a good database to market, 63 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:48.879 to good reach on social and so we built out our own our own survey 64 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:56.470 launched it. I got over five thousand responses at that year and and really 65 00:04:57.269 --> 00:05:01.149 use that and now it's become really the centerpiece of our thought leadership every year 66 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:05.470 and it did a lot of great things that you know everywhere, from the 67 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:13.180 thought leadership side of things and establishing our credibility as industry leaders and understanding the 68 00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:16.860 industry and trying to move it forward all the way to help guiding our products 69 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:20.300 and giving us a lot of data. We share a lot of that data, 70 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:27.089 output, a lot of that data we internally to really refine a lot 71 00:05:27.170 --> 00:05:30.970 of the pieces of our business and understand our customers better. Yeah, for 72 00:05:30.089 --> 00:05:33.850 sure, and so that's that's no matter. What you mentioned is specifically. 73 00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:39.199 You know that you guys are in selling to a niche within a niche with 74 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:46.759 physical therapy, and I can see how that research driven growth, if you 75 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:49.829 will, be not just super important but super effective. Right, because these 76 00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:55.870 are folks who are held to standards that change a lot of the time. 77 00:05:56.189 --> 00:05:59.709 What they do is so highly technical a lot of the time, more and 78 00:05:59.790 --> 00:06:01.589 more that, I think, than a lot of folks realize and they lean 79 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:05.819 on being able to, you know, keep track of things and keep up 80 00:06:05.899 --> 00:06:09.860 with things on their day to day more than I think folks outside the industry 81 00:06:09.860 --> 00:06:15.819 understand in terms of how important had the right tech is for those industries. 82 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:23.329 But when we talk about leveraging specifically research to drive growth there talk about what 83 00:06:23.689 --> 00:06:28.490 what that looks like when it comes to driving awareness within a niche vertical. 84 00:06:29.009 --> 00:06:31.730 Sure. So for us it helped us in a number of ways. One 85 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:36.800 is we got this huge wealth of data that we could then take and look 86 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:41.680 at across the spectrum. So we were really good and yes, MD space 87 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.480 and we had really built our name there, and so we understood those owner 88 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:50.430 operators. We really understood those members and those that segment of the of the 89 00:06:50.509 --> 00:06:55.589 market. We have less understanding of some of the non physical therapists, of 90 00:06:55.670 --> 00:06:59.670 some of the executives in the larger clinics and hospitals and things like that, 91 00:06:59.870 --> 00:07:02.100 and so we were able to kind of get some of that feedback and then 92 00:07:02.579 --> 00:07:08.620 take that find out what they cared about, find out what their challenges are. 93 00:07:09.339 --> 00:07:12.259 You know, understand a little bit about who they are, because you 94 00:07:12.339 --> 00:07:15.689 know, now we know their age. There you know what they've what they've 95 00:07:15.730 --> 00:07:19.810 done in their career, where they're located and we can start to really customize 96 00:07:19.850 --> 00:07:26.170 the way we go after this and really segment to drive messaging and so on 97 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:30.480 that side. Internally, it helped influence really the messages we deliver to the 98 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:35.879 different buyers and different segments across the audience, and then we could take all 99 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:40.839 this data we had and slice it up and then serve it up to those 100 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:45.870 specific people. So if you're a billing manager at a larger group, you 101 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:50.029 know, we know that your you care about the or reimbursement rates, and 102 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:55.990 so we can then benchmark across the country in your area and serve that up, 103 00:07:56.029 --> 00:07:59.259 because everybody, everybody wants to know how they're doing. Everybody wants to 104 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:01.899 size themselves up against someone that looks like them, and so we were able 105 00:08:01.939 --> 00:08:07.620 to take that and to deliver that to audiences and it really you know, 106 00:08:07.980 --> 00:08:13.529 we release the report and it's fifty, sixty pages every year full of data, 107 00:08:13.649 --> 00:08:16.810 and then we slice it up and serve a little oar pieces. We 108 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:20.569 do a Webinar on it every year, and so it's really helped us become 109 00:08:20.730 --> 00:08:26.569 known as this as this industry thought leader and as as a company that cares 110 00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:30.600 about the industry, that pulls together all this information, spins the money, 111 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.279 spends the time to do it, and then when we identify these challenges, 112 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.120 then we start to try to move the the industry forward, and then also 113 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:43.789 it influences our product roadmap and what we deliver to our customers. Hey, 114 00:08:43.830 --> 00:08:48.269 everybody, logan the sweet fish year. You probably already know that we think 115 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:52.549 you should start a podcast if you haven't already. But what if you have 116 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:56.700 and you're asking these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted revenue 117 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:01.460 this year? How's our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? If you 118 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:07.019 can't answer these questions, you're actually not alone. This is why I casted, 119 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:11.409 created the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be tob podcasting. 120 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:18.690 Now you can more easily search and share your audio content while getting greater visibility 121 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:24.169 into the impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at drift terminus and here 122 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:28.799 at sweet fish have started using casted to get more value out of our podcasts, 123 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.559 and you probably can to. You can check out the product in action 124 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:41.549 and casted dot US growth. That's sea steed dot US growth all right, 125 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:46.509 let's get back to the show, right. That's the question I wanted to 126 00:09:46.549 --> 00:09:50.470 ask you next, and here in a second, is about what types of 127 00:09:50.549 --> 00:09:54.419 product insights you can gain from that kind of research. But I think it's 128 00:09:54.460 --> 00:09:58.340 really important the way you talk about, the spirit in which you guys, 129 00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:01.340 you know, could first conduct this research and then the way that you guys 130 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:05.980 put it out there. You're a resource, your resource to folks in the 131 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:11.009 industry, whether they are your clients are not, which I think is definitely 132 00:10:11.649 --> 00:10:15.610 the way that that be tob is going. And if it's not, it 133 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:20.490 needs to go like if you're if you don't get that yet, you're gonna 134 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:24.200 get left behind in the folks who I who I really look up to as 135 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.639 marketers, are folks doing what you're doing, which are, like, you 136 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.240 know, thinking beyond simply how can we engage folks and attract them toward being, 137 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:37.629 you know, our customers, but how can we make a contribution that 138 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:43.629 they they with into the next organization that they work at? That outlives US 139 00:10:43.669 --> 00:10:46.389 or anyone can paign, and it sounds like that's really what you're talking about 140 00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:52.340 when we talk about leveraging this, this research. Are you our CEOS as 141 00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:56.299 were almost two companies, right, where software company, and then we're almost 142 00:10:56.419 --> 00:10:58.860 this media company, right, because we create a lot of content. We 143 00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:05.210 recognize that in our market most of most of the the owners and pets and 144 00:11:05.289 --> 00:11:07.809 things, they don't have MBA's. They didn't go to school for business, 145 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:11.049 they go went to school to take care of patients. And so for us 146 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:15.450 it's about you know, we go back to our mission is to help therapists 147 00:11:15.490 --> 00:11:18.279 achieve greatness and practice right, and so it. We hope they do it 148 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.080 with our software, but if they don't, that's okay. And I think, 149 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.639 I think your point is spot on, which is to be part of 150 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.080 the evoke set to say like, okay, I need an Emr, I 151 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:33.029 need a billing software. I know I got to check out what pt right 152 00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.950 or you know, we go to events and we hear people come up and 153 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:39.029 say, Oh, we love your blog, we love your report, we 154 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:43.230 love your webinars. You know, we use this other junk software and I 155 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:45.669 wish I could get them to switch it. But you know, at some 156 00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:48.139 point what we'll get there. And so it is about the industry and it 157 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.460 is about building that relationship and I think, I think you're right if all 158 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:56.899 you're thinking about his sales right now, then you're missing the sort of long 159 00:11:56.220 --> 00:12:01.220 play and the building of that brand that's going to have you, you know, 160 00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:03.129 be a market leader down the road. Yeah, there are so many 161 00:12:03.169 --> 00:12:09.409 conversations to be had in that interviewing these some of these so called KNIZZEON issues. 162 00:12:09.409 --> 00:12:11.090 I used to sell into health care myself. I work for company was 163 00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:16.440 called Kinserts, now called well Stye. Yeah, it's through popular in Mar 164 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.399 Platform and I'm still, first of all, I'm still an advocate for them, 165 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.200 since I worked with them and I I've seen firsthand then do the same 166 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.759 thing that you're talking about right like most of the follows, I work there 167 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.000 is an SDR and most of the folks I was reaching out to one a 168 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.750 daily basis would have been maybe the end user for for that platform, but 169 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.950 they wouldn't have been the folks on the buying team. But it didn't matter. 170 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:41.590 I was reaching out to them to make sure they knew about some new 171 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:45.419 resource that we had that was out, just to make sure that they have 172 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:48.139 something to engage with. It's a whole other play to talk to, you 173 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.179 know, the folks on the buying team, but I was proud to be 174 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:56.100 able to be a part of those efforts to inform, educate and empower that 175 00:12:56.340 --> 00:13:01.129 the the practitioners in that industry. And so what are some of the ways 176 00:13:01.210 --> 00:13:05.649 that that affects your product insights? You know, for us it's really great 177 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:09.970 to get this much information. Usually what we get is about fifty of our 178 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:13.679 own customers and non customers, somewhere in that range. So it's really been 179 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.440 powerful to do a few things. One is we look at MPs. That's 180 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:24.039 one of the questions we ask, and so we can benchmark ourselves against every 181 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.070 other competitor in the market and against the market as a whole, and so 182 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:31.389 then we can take that data and say, look, we have an MPs 183 00:13:31.509 --> 00:13:35.549 of thirty. The average MPs for the market is negative. So it shows 184 00:13:35.590 --> 00:13:39.429 that difference and so we can put that back out to the market. But 185 00:13:39.509 --> 00:13:43.299 it also we were able to say what features matter most, what products matter 186 00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:48.779 most, and rate how we're delivering on that versus how important it is. 187 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:54.860 And so this has been able to help guide our product roadmap to say, 188 00:13:54.379 --> 00:13:58.929 okay, we're weakest in, say, Home Exercise Program that was something that 189 00:14:00.009 --> 00:14:03.769 we saw. Is that weakness. So we went we went back we said, 190 00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:07.970 okay, build partner by we ended up buying a home exercise program and 191 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:11.720 incorporating it into a software and now it's become a strength of ours, and 192 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.799 so we saw an opportunity there and now that's that's, over the past couple 193 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.120 of years, driven us to create a product that will be released next year 194 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.240 that solves that problem. And so it's been a it's it's been an amazing 195 00:14:24.429 --> 00:14:31.190 tool to get a huge amount of quantitative data, because our product team goes 196 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.110 out and they have they go to clinics, they talk to people and they 197 00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:37.429 get that oneonone deep information. But to be able to provide them with, 198 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:43.779 you know, Fivezero responses talking about what's important, it's really powerful way to 199 00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:48.620 back that data. Yeah, I love that. I love that so much 200 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:52.539 and again, it is something that I've seen work. So y'all pay attention. 201 00:14:54.090 --> 00:14:56.409 Before we move on to the next segment, and I kind of get 202 00:14:56.409 --> 00:14:58.490 into your head a little bit. Is there anything health with respect to how 203 00:14:58.529 --> 00:15:05.529 to leverage original research to drive growth and front inside that you want to leave 204 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:07.879 with our listeners before we move on? Yeah, you touched on something there 205 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.960 that that I think is important, as it's about the person right. I 206 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.879 mean I think we all indeed to be we all go after the companies, 207 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.320 but you know, everybody wants their company to be successful, but they're also 208 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:24.549 trying to also advance their careers, are also trying to move those things forward. 209 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.230 So we're able to give this data to whoever, you know, whoever 210 00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:31.950 is looking for it to see we do pay right and so what salary data 211 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:37.419 all slice ale different types of way so people can go and look and they 212 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:39.500 see where they say, they can also take then that their boss or if 213 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.779 you're running a company, say okay, no, I'm paying my people right, 214 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:46.500 or I need to step up here right, that's what I'm going to 215 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:52.409 need to do, and it really helps empower the individuals in the company and 216 00:15:52.570 --> 00:15:54.250 gives them a sense of how they're performing, because I think that's one of 217 00:15:54.289 --> 00:16:00.610 the I think anyone who's, you know, striving in their industry wants to 218 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:03.009 know how how we're doing right, like we're doing better than last year, 219 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:07.519 but are we doing as well as the competition? Are we doing, you 220 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.960 know, better than most, or you know, where do we stack up? 221 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.279 And I think that's the industry survey has been a really powerful tool to 222 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.309 help get people there and then to help drive not only them to take action 223 00:16:19.509 --> 00:16:22.950 and to focus on what's important, but to also help, you know, 224 00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:26.990 make some arguments some of our some of our customers of you and taken that 225 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:32.710 data to and gone to payers right blue across, Blue Shield, whoever, 226 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:36.740 and said look, this is, this is the average in my state and 227 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:38.500 you're under this. You need to bring this up. And so they they've 228 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:45.139 leveraged that data to get increases in their reimbursements. So it's just a really 229 00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:48.090 powerful tool that that can be used in so many different ways and I think 230 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:55.129 it's a ton of work, but it really has become the kind of the 231 00:16:55.289 --> 00:17:00.559 cornerstone of our whole content and bound strategy. Yeah, for Real, UM, 232 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:03.279 thank you for laying that out for us the way that you did. 233 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:07.119 I think that you gave us a little bit of everything that folks can take 234 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.640 away with any whether it's a different way of thinking about whether're already doing or 235 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.400 just something that they may not be doing. As I keep saying they, 236 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:18.869 I mean we, that we can start doing now. So now, shown 237 00:17:18.910 --> 00:17:21.390 that I've successfully picked your brain and seeing what I could get out of it, 238 00:17:21.470 --> 00:17:23.430 it is time for you to tell us about what you are putting in 239 00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:27.390 it. So talk to us about learning resource that you've engaged with here recently. 240 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:30.779 That's, you know, forming your approach. That's just got you excited 241 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.940 these days. Yes, I I am a reader and you like to read 242 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:37.859 a lot. You know I say I try to stay current with kind of 243 00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:45.930 what's going on, with kind of daily newsletters like the hustle morning grew, 244 00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:49.650 the Harvard Business Review, all those are type of things that I kind of 245 00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:53.970 read regularly. I mean from a book perspective. Right now I'm reading two 246 00:17:55.049 --> 00:17:59.279 books. ONE IS A random walk down Wall Street, which is like kind 247 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.640 of a history of investing in the markets, which is it's heavy, it's 248 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:10.279 big dance, and I'm islands in the Stream, which is a hemmingway book, 249 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:15.349 and so I try to balance kind of productive with fun. I just 250 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:19.109 read dare to lead by Berna Brown, which I thought was fantastic. Yeah, 251 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:22.390 really, really good. You know, I think as a bet being 252 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:26.220 marketer crossing the chasm, as a classic, I think we're sure one should 253 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:33.539 read read that regularly. Grit was another great book. Never split the difference. 254 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:34.339 I thought was a great one. On it go, one of my 255 00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:37.099 favorites in the last few years. Yeah, and so, you know, 256 00:18:37.180 --> 00:18:41.450 I mean, I'm just I think I read a lot about like emotional intelligence. 257 00:18:41.490 --> 00:18:47.289 Two point I was when I read recently the goal is an interesting book. 258 00:18:47.329 --> 00:18:52.369 It's kind of a novel about process and the theory of constraints. So 259 00:18:52.490 --> 00:18:59.480 I read a lot. I also really focus on going to conferences that we 260 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.559 just got back from a Warburg, pink its CMO CRO summit, so got 261 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.519 to meet some of my peers and pick their brains. I think that's a 262 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.670 critical part of growing as a marketer is you've got to have a network and 263 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:18.109 you gotta bounce ideas because you know, we're all going through similar things probably 264 00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.230 and we're all at different stages in the journey, whether it's, you know, 265 00:19:21.430 --> 00:19:25.779 figuring out content marketing or event marketing or what it is, whatever it 266 00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:27.779 is, I think it's really important to you. I'll grab a beer, 267 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:33.059 grab a coffee and and and swall or story. So I guess that's that's 268 00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:37.019 most of what I'm what I'm thinking about that. I love it. No, 269 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:41.369 you gave me a lot to relate to. The things we've read in 270 00:19:41.450 --> 00:19:44.450 common, are all reading in common, and then some stuff that I hadn't 271 00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:47.930 heard of yet. So thanks for all of it and I'm sure that, 272 00:19:48.089 --> 00:19:51.250 just like me, everybody listening has become a fast fan of yours, John, 273 00:19:51.289 --> 00:19:52.920 and they're going to want to know how to keep up with you. 274 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.559 Tell us, tell us how folks can connect with you. Sure. So 275 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.640 linkedin or twitter? Either of those I finding on there Seawan mckey for on 276 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:06.519 twitter, and then linkedin perfect. So there's actually so many other questions that 277 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.950 I have just from from talking with you and having some sort of a similar 278 00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.990 background with my my experience at Kinser and what you're doing with web PT. 279 00:20:12.509 --> 00:20:15.829 So it just means we're going to have to have you on the show again 280 00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:18.630 sometime down the road. You'RE gonna have to race it with me again, 281 00:20:18.630 --> 00:20:22.299 but until then, thank you against so much for bringing what you brought to 282 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:26.460 the show today and for taking the time to come out and talk to us. 283 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:27.460 Have a good one shot. Yeah, thank you for having me. 284 00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:33.500 I really enjoyed it. We totally get it. We publish a ton of 285 00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:36.730 content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. 286 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:41.609 That's why we've started the BTB growth big three, a no fluff email that 287 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.490 boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up 288 00:20:45.569 --> 00:20:52.559 today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. That sweet fish Mediacom Big Three